Her Discussions by Dr Faye - Gut-Brain Expert: The Best Anti-Inflammatory Products For Your Gut

Episode Date: June 22, 2026

Did you know there is a natural answer to Ozempic?In today’s episode, we’re joined by Dr Madusha Peiris and Dr Rubina Aktar, who are leading experts in the gut-brain connection, with over a decade of research focused on how the gut senses nutrients and communicates with the brain through hormone signalling.Their work has helped uncover how specialised gut cells (L-cells) can be activated to release key appetite-regulating hormones including GLP-1 and PYY - a lesser-known satiety hormone that many researchers believe is just as important as GLP-1 for sustainable appetite control.Listen in and learn:🥦 the reason you shouldn’t be buying probiotic supplements🔬 the truth behind “nature’s ozempic”🤤 why you never feel full🥣 what to buy to * actually * heal your gut🍽️ how to moderate your appetite controlStudies mentioned:Page, A.J., Symonds, E., Peiris, M., Blackshaw, L.A. and Young, R.L. (2012), Peripheral neural targets in obesity. British Journal of Pharmacology, 166: 1537-1558. https://doi.org/10.1111/j.1476-5381.2012.01951.xThe following paper was published in Gut journal and is also foundational to Elcella’s science:Peiris M, Aktar R, Reed D, Cibert-Goton V, Zdanaviciene A, Halder W, Robinow A, Corke S, Dogra H, Knowles CH, Blackshaw A. Decoy bypass for appetite suppression in obese adults: role of synergistic nutrient sensing receptors GPR84 and FFAR4 on colonic endocrine cells. Gut. 2022 May;71(5):928-937. doi: 10.1136/gutjnl-2020-323219. Epub 2021 Jun 3. PMID: 34083384; PMCID: PMC8995825.Resources & links mentioned:Elcella’s Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/elcella_/🔔 Join the HERd* broadcast channel here: https://www.instagram.com/channel/AbY4liwxlLnewx4H/?igsh=MWhuaXFweGtucTB3cA==📱 Find us on socials:Instagram & Tiktok - @drfayebatePodcast Instagram & Tiktok: @herdiscussionspod📩 Want to reach out?Email: [e-mail]🛑 Disclaimers:Opinions are my own. This content is for educational / entertainment purposes and not medical or financial advice.

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free of charge. BetMGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with Eye Gaming, Ontario. I would not buy a probiotic. If you've ever wondered how you can regulate your appetite naturally, this episode is for you. UPFs have a direct influence on appetite regulation because of the way they're digested in the body. Dr Medusia and Dr. Ruby are experts in the gut-brain connection. Their research has been called Nature's Answer to OZMPIC. Your gut is not your stomach.

It's about nine metres in length. Bloating is part of normal gut health. And the average consumer takes about 18 grams of fiber a day. We need to take at least 30 grams of fiber. OZNPIC is actually a drug and JOP1 is a hormone that we all have. GUT sends majority of the information to the brain, not the other way around. We'll be discussing how modern diets can disrupt gut signaling and why gut health affects mood, cravings and cognition. We've been studying the gut way before it was cool.

But first, if you could do me a huge favour and click the subscribe button or leave a five-star review, it will literally take you two seconds and it really helps us keep bringing you guys. to help you live a happier, healthier life. Thank you. Hi, I'm Dr. Medusa. And hi, I'm Dr. Ruby. And welcome to her discussion podcast. Dr. Medusa and Dr. Ruby,

we have had in so many community questions about regulating your upside, improving your gut health, and actually signs of how to know when your gut health isn't good. But first, I would love to know what brought you to the world of gut health an appetite in the first place and being women in STEM.

I'll go first. So for me, the journey actually started as a very curious person who wanted to learn as much as I could. But I did my PhD in neuroscience and I was studying the brain and I was studying multiple sclerosis particularly. So I had no idea about the gut. I had no idea about there even being a nervous system in the gut until I had. I joined the Wingate Institute for Neuro Gastroenterontrology, long word, and that's when I started.

So this is about 18 years ago. So since I finished my PhD, I decided I don't want to really work on the brain. I want to work on something else. And it happened that I started to work on the gut and understood that there is a very strong gut brain connection. So I have fallen in love, I would say, with the gut ever since. And it's so, so complicated. And we underestimate the gut so much. And I I'm learning something new about the gut every day. And I've been in the field for 18 years. So that's why I do what I do. I absolutely love learning about how the gut works, how it's so integral for so many processes that are important for normal, healthy function. I have a research lab at Queen Mary University of London. So I teach. I have active research projects. So I'm still

doing experiments. Maybe not me personally, but my team. And so I'm still very excited to be a scientist and will always be a scientist. I have to ask everyone who comes on who's a research and what's your favourite piece of research that you've done? I think the favourite piece of research I've done has been discovering what underlies L-Celler. It was that fundamental moment where you asked what I thought was a relatively simple question about how nutrients actually interact with the gut and what happens when different nutrients interact with the gut. and getting that answer, which was completely unexpected, was that eureka moment. I think that's been my favourite moment out of all of the different experiments I've done. That's number one.

And Dr. Ruevie? My story's a little different to Medecious. I've always been a gut person. So my passion very much lied when I was a child. I used to think food goes in the mouth and it comes out the other end. But surely there's some complex system going on in between that region. And I always think food is honestly when you eat something or your gut is actually the communication to the outside world. You have pathogens, you have your breathing in air, you're having nutrients in your diet.

And all those things interact. The first organ that it interacts with, which is the largest endocrine organ, is the GI tract. So I've been always fascinated by the entire GI tract. And I think it's very much centrally positioned in the body to communicate with all the different organs that you have. And for me, my PhD was actually focused on the enteric nervous system. And it's really interesting because people don't even understand what the ENS actually is. It's the own gut's little brain. And for me, that was a fascinating thing to understand.

And I learned that when I was at uni. So really since then, I haven't looked back. And I love gut research. I love all things about gut. And I do think it's a fundamental part of all health problems. I think it really very much starts from gut. I might be biased, of course, because I'm a gut scientist. I'm a little junior to Medusia.

I've been doing it for about 12, 13 years, but passionate about gut research. And I think the institute that we're in, which was led by David Winger at Queen Mary University, that institute is focused on understanding the gut brain axis, how the gut communicates with the brain, how we can strengthen the gut function. So I've never looked back as well with Medea. And I think I met her very early on in 2012 understanding the gut and I've never wanting to do anything else. Oh, I know we've seen gut health just completely blow up over the last few years. and often a lot of that information is so, so, so powerful,

but there is also a lot of misinformation intertwined with that. And then even more recently, the huge surging the gut brain axis. So before we come on to the section called Buy or Bye Bye and some of maybe the misinformation that exists, I would love to know what the basics of the gut brain axis, if you were explaining it to a five-year-old, what is it and what is it? and what is its impact on us? The gut and the brain are highly connected, first and foremost. I think that's rule number one for a five-year-old.

And it's connected by this super highway. It's like a motorway. So the gut and the brain has a super highway. And these are neurons, particularly the vagus nerve, which is the largest, longest neuron. And that sends messages from the gut to the brain. In fact, it's interesting because the gut sends majority of the information to the brain, not the other way around. and people often think it's the mind thing, but actually it's the gut thing first.

So this gut-brain connection is so important. We shouldn't treat them as separate entities, but things that are in constant conversation with each other, they're communicating daily with each other to understand how the processes of the gut and the processes of the brain should be optimized. So for me, it's essentially a long wire with many offshoots between the gut and the mind and that communication is always happening. I'm just going to add the other thing I really want to get clear to people. is that your gut is not your stomach. It's so much more. In fact, the gastrointestinal tract

starts from the esophagus or the gullet. It goes to the stomach. Then there's a small intestine and then there's a large intestine. It's about nine meters in length from the oral cavity down to the end. So it's actually a major organ. And if you just talk about gut health, it's very broad. And I think we need to start talking about it more in a specific way, looking at specific issues and specific areas of the gut and how we assess what's going on there and then think about how we improve the health in those particular areas because they're all quite different actually. So we will come on to some of those particular issues, particularly appetite regulation because I myself have had a very rough history of my relationship with food,

weight gain, weight loss, appetite regulation. I remember a period in my life where I really, really struggle with my weight and I just felt like I had this completely insatiable appetite. I just never felt full. I never felt satisfied. And often we reduce those struggles to aesthetics. But I just, I remember it completely put my life on pause.

So I'm sure so many, well, I know a lot of the audience is really keen to hear about the science of how they can harness their gut health to regulate their appetite. But first, we have a part of the podcast. It's called Buy or Bye Bye. I am going to show you a piece of paper. And I would like to know whether you would buy this thing or say bye-bye to it. Active bacteria drinks.

I think I would say yes to this because there's actually some good data to show that live cultures like Lactobacilis case I actually have beneficial effects on general gut health like constipation. So if I was suffering from constipation, I would buy this. It's better than buying, you know, something that doesn't have any data behind it. So it's a buy for me. Probiotic supplements. Probiotic supplements are everywhere. And I think what we need to focus on is the data. And actually, there's quite a good amount of data now to show that probiotic supplements do not change the gut microbiome, doesn't change your diversity in your gut microbiome. And so these are big studies that have looked at all the studies that have been done in the past 10 years or so.

And the evidence suggests that there's really not much improvement. So you're not really going to get anything from spending 30 pounds a month. It might help you think you're doing something. That's also a good thing. But fundamentally, I would not buy a probiotic unless I really needed it. And I was recommended a probiotic by a clinician for a specific GI issue. I think just with the probiotics, it's really important to understand where the delivery of those probiotic. are, is it in the colon, which is the home of the gut microbiome? So some probiotics, they get

digested in the stomach because of the acid. So it's really important to get a good quantity of probiotics, the beneficial bacteria, to the lower part of your gut. So I think it's really important to have a look at the dissolution profile if you like in probiotics. I would say that there really aren't any probiotics that are going to get to the colon, which is where they need to get to. Otherwise, they'd be quite a lot more expensive. So, yeah. At less in certain circumstances. Unless, yeah. I think, again, some clinicians, especially gastrointrales,

do you recommend probiotics for certain people who have certain GI conditions. There are some probiotics that are better than others. So, yeah, I would wait for your clinician to really recommend a certain one if you need it. kombucha. If it's a replacement or a swap for a fizzy drink, 100% kombucha. For example, if you're swapping it for a Diet Coke, I would say kombucha. But I think Kefer is probably better than kombucha. kombucha does have tea polyphenols in it and some like bacteria, but it's not a gut health

kombucha drink that you should be taking for gut lining or improved gut health. I think overall definitely a swap, but I would say bye for now. Nice. Okay, that's really validating because when I choose a kombucha rather than a fizzy drink, I feel like it's doing good, but I don't, I wouldn't go out of my way. You don't depend on it, right? Yeah, it's so expensive. I couldn't have a kombucha every day that's not an affordable. Also, now what's happening with the kombuchas, like if they're fizzy now and they're having flavors and other things in it.

So you have to be careful the sugar content as well of kombucha. 30 plants a week. Yeah. So actually, this is interesting because there has been a large study done in the US of looking at 10,000 people who have taken a diet that's very diverse in plants, about 30 plants, compared to people who take 10 plants. and they're definitely the people who take the 30 plants a week have improved gut health in general and they have improved gut microbiome. So the issue is like keeping track of 30 plants, like it's not an Excel file. You need to think about your life and not in an Excel file, but more as a diversity is important.

That adage, the rainbow plate of having many different colors on your plate is correct. You should be having different types of food, different types of different types. of plants primarily, it's going to be very helpful. So think of it more of a let me make sure my plate, my meals are diverse, rather than focusing on a number. Nice. The 2006 Chevrolet Equinox awarded the most dependable compact SUV in the US by J.D. Power is designed for your everyday.

And with available all-wheel drive, you can handle your to-do list with total confidence. Start your build at Chevrolet.ca. Details at J.D.Power.com. gut health supplements. So as you know, the wellness industry has been taken by storm with the gut health supplements. And that's just, it's huge now. It's a billion dollar industry. But the problem with the gut health and as gut health scientists, what we find is that there's not enough clinical evidence.

And without clinical evidence, it's really hard. And you see those people, I mean, on Instagram, TikTok, recommended these things. But for us, we say tread with caution because it's really important to understand the science and the clinical validation. In saying that, one thing that I do agree with is fibre. The public health England have said, you know, the average consumer takes about 18 grams of fibre a day. We need to take at least 30 grams of fibre. So things like Sillium Husk is sometimes I would recommend

to patients that I've seen in clinics because some people can't get enough fibre in their diet. But I think it's really important to understand. A 50 pence tin of chick fee is better than going for those green powders that have only probably about 2 grams of fibre in it. I was so unbelievably shocked when I heard about how few people get their fiber intake. And I almost rolled my eyes because I thought, oh, I've got a good diet. Like, oh, I think the statistic quoted was something like 90, 98% of people don't get enough fiber.

But, you know, I was rolling my eyes thinking, God, what idiots are not getting enough fiber. You need your fruit and vegetables. Then I realized an apple has like two grams of fiber or something. and I was counting up, you know, the fruits and vegetables, maybe I eat and probably not fruits and vegetables that don't have that much fibre in. And I was thinking, oh my God, I like, I don't think I get my 30 grams. So there's been a lot of chia seeds that have been added into my diet since then. The Sillium husk, I saw a recipe, I don't know, I'd love to get your thoughts on this. I saw a recipe and it was like a little bit of grape juice, which, you know, obviously juice is

not always the most beneficial food, but a little bit of grape juice with cil. Sillium Hursk and that was, it made like a sort of jelly as a bit of a dessert. And myself and my, my fiance, I made it a couple of times and we actually really liked it. And as a way to introduce a bit more fibre, I thought that was quite good, but I'd love to hear your thoughts. I was going to say actually, fibre is also good, like you mentioned, to create that jelly and it protects the lining of your gut. So if sometimes people are like, well, why do I need so much fiber? Is it just for constipation? It's to create the bulk.

No, it's not just that. And chia seeds are great for this. They produce this mucous-like, gel-like kind of consistency, which is very good for protecting the lining of your gut. And your lining of your gut is like the defense mechanism protects you from the outside world. So think of your gut lining as your skin. If you've got damaged skin, things are going to get in there and it can cause infection, it can cause illness.

the same things happens on the inside with the gut. It's just we can't see it. So we don't know. It's probably happening. So that's one of the reasons actually we recommend fibre. And also, don't think about the numbers so much. It's almost impossible to hit certain numbers. But if you're doing it regularly, consistency is key.

And focusing on just trying to make sure that you get what you need a day. Don't peel all the vegetable skin off. You know, keep some skins on. that's a really easy way to add a little extra fibre. So let's not focus on the numbers. Let's just focus on the behaviour and the pattern and consistency. And I think overall, over time, is going to help you get to where you need to get to. Just advice on the cilium husk point with the grape juice.

I mean, I've seen that same video. So I know what you're talking about. I know from where. But with that cilium husk, I would say you can add your grape juice that you're adding. Just make sure it's not from concentrate. It's not too sugary. and dilute with water, that will help. But I do think that's a great way to get fair fibre into your diet

if you feel like you're not getting enough in your actual diet. Yeah, I'm such a, I've got such a sweet tooth. I love, well, this will come onto the appetite regulation. Like I'm never, well, yeah, I do struggle to feel full. But after I've had my main meal, I do have that feeling of, oh, I just want a little sweet snack after dinner. But we did find that having a cheer pudding or like a cillium husk pudding did kind of give me my little sweet fix

and it's probably better than a bar of Tony's. My grape juice is better. Yeah, definitely. So everything is about moderation, isn't it? 100%. We're going to come on to the basics of appetite regulation. I'd imagine it must be really, really difficult taking something that you've researched and studied

for so long and then trying to define it in five minutes. But if possible, what are the basics of appetite regulation? Yeah. I want to start off by saying that appetite regulation for a long time was thought to be all in your head. And we taught medical students that. And actually it's not. And that research has really only come to life and come alive in the last 10 years or so. And what that research shows is it's your gut that is the master regulator of appetite. So you have gut hormones. We all have gut hormones. It doesn't matter what BMI you are. We all have them in the same. relative amounts, they're all stored in cells in our gut, and they have a very special name called enter endocrine cells. And what they do is they are sitting there and they're waiting for certain nutrients to come along. When those nutrients come along, they get very excited and they switch on. And that switching on mechanism releases the hormones that they're holding onto. And those hormones are appetite reducing hormones. Once those appetite reducing hormones,

are released from your gut, they're able to travel to your brain through nerves, but also through your blood, through your circulation. And that's when you get that feeling of, I'm full, I'm feeling really good. Now, feeling full happens in two stages. There's a quick response, and that's primarily your stomach stretching. So that's the indication that, you know, you're done with a meal when your stomach is pretty stretched and it sends a signal to your brain that you're full. That feeling of fullness that keeps you full between meals, breakfast and lunch and dinner, is actually driven by gut hormones. And if we can just have three meals a day, you're going to get rid of snacking. You're going to get rid of those extra calories.

You're reducing that by up to 500 kilo calories. Some of those snacks are very calerific. And that is how we are actually meant to be. So we're meant to feel full. We're meant to be able to feel full for a few hours. Then, of course, your hormones go down, your hunger hormones. goes up and then you start feeling hungry again. And that's a normal system because you need to have food and energy to actually get your body going, right? That's your fuel. So humans are designed in that way. And so we want to change and go around and tell people it's not in your head, it's in your gut. It's not willpower. It's gut power. And it's about time that we change that I think, you know, stigma really of, oh, you just can't control your appetite. You just

don't have a good enough, you know, willpower, your self-controls poor. Actually, it's the gut and the gut needs to be reinvigorated and energize and activated. We call it awakened. So your gut cells that release these hormones in response to certain nutrients can wake up, release what they need to release, and get more into a cycle of, you know, getting excited, releasing, getting excited and releasing on a daily basis. So that's what Lcell is based on, is understanding those mechanisms. but essentially the appetite control mechanisms is gut-centric.

Interesting. So we'll come on to L. Sela shortly. But I was wondering if we have research on where ultra-processed foods or the current food landscape sits in this conversation around appetite regulation. Ultra-resist foods is something that's really interesting to me as well. Ultra food companies have produced or made ultra-processed food, in a way that they strip the cell membrane, so the fiber context is removed to make it hyperpalatable. It's not, they have very poor nutrition, and it's full of additives and emulsifies.

And they've done it in a way so that it's quickly digested. You essentially don't have to chew. You just essentially swallow the food, and then it gets into your stomach and it's absorbed, and it's basically done. It goes nowhere near the lower bowel, which is the colon, the master regulator appetite. It holds a hormones that tells your body you're feeling full, releases those hormones, you should talk about. But if you're not allowing that time to chew the food, to get your body, oh, food is incoming. If you don't give that time to happen, then these ultra-processed foods, as soon as you have them, it's like having a bowl of corn flakes versus having a bowl of oats.

They might be exactly the same calories, but you'll feel much fuller with the oats than you do with the corn flakes because they are processed very quickly, and they've been designed to do that. So UPFs have a direct influence on appetite regulation because of the way they're digested in the body. It's really interesting. With the oats, I mean, because there's solupped, there's fiber in there, it takes time to digest, gets to the lower bowel, gets the stimulating those L cells to release the hormones, which connect to your brain to tell you you're feeling full. Whereas the cornflakes, they're already done in the upper GI tract, but they're nowhere to be

found in the colon. So it's really important to understand that UPS, they're not good for your health overall and definitely not for your appetite control. And you mentioned L cells there. So that's the cells that get excited when they get those specific nutrients. That's right. Whenever we talk about UPFs, there's always an understandable caveat that comes along with families who maybe are struggling, time poor and also financially might be struggling. Do you have any budget friendly or time friendly ways that people can improve their gut health and try steer away from ultra-process foods that are often cheaper and more convenient?

I actually think we underestimate the effectiveness of just having set. a salad and you don't have to spend much money on, you know, vegetables that are fresh. And I know, like, time is an issue. We all have that. We're all starving when we get home as well. And you just want something quick. And I think a salad that you just, a chop salad with a simple vinaigarette dressing can get you so much fiber because you also don't have to worry about peeling anything. Chop, chop, mix, mix, mix. And it's great. And also, if we just include that as a side dish, you can have an oven pizza. You can have some fish and chips that you warm, up in, you know, the air fryer. I do that. It's not the end of the world. But I also include some

salad and some leaves or some fiber that I know will help me digest the food a little bit slower, I would say. But ultimately, you're getting some protein, you're getting some carbohydrates and you're getting some fiber. So we don't need to also demonize, like, doing things quickly and easily. I mean, we live busy lives. It's really hard to stay super healthy and do all the right things. So it kind of comes back to what we were saying earlier that don't focus on the numbers and don't focus on, oh my gosh, I'm failing. Just focus on consistency and doing small things every day. That will add up. That will make a difference. And, you know, over time, your gut will improve. I love the idea of adding rather than subtracting. I think that that's such a, such a,

helpful, like, practical tip. Talk me through the research behind L. Seller. So we were focused on understanding how the gut works for all our career and we'll continue to do that. Well, what we do differently is we would be studying human gut tissue samples. So instead of doing experiments on mice or in cells or using AI, we actually studied human gut tissue from people who are undergoing surgery or having bits of tissue removed from their gut in biopsies. And so we studied what actually happens in real live human. gut tissue, and that's a hard thing to do. But we figured this is a best way to get actual human

answers. And during that process, we were asking the question, can your gut actually taste nutrients? And so we took pieces of gut tissue from the stomach all the way down to the rectum, which is the last part of your gut, where the poop comes out. And we were absolutely shocked to see that all of the gastrointestinal tract, the entire, you know, six meters from the esophagus down, actually can sense or taste nutrients, especially the lower gut, especially the colon. And that was a part of the gut that we thought, well, that's just the home of the gut microbiome. That's just where poop is formed. That's where water is reabsorbed.

Nope. Actually, it's a massive site of nutrient sensing. And then we understood this is also a site of L cells. This is where the most L cells in your gut actually are. and L cells release GLP1. We all know about GLP1. It's not a medicine. It's a hormone that we all have.

And it's stored in these L cells. And when these L cells, like we said, get excited, they release those hormones like GLP1, but also a very important hormone called PYY that no one's talking about because no one's able to make it artificially. The important thing about PYY is it's the hormone that helps you keep full between meals. It helps you feel satisfied. it actually changes food preferences. So you move away from fast foods, fatty foods,

and you have more of a inclination to have protein and fibre-rich foods. So we think, oh, it's, you know, I decide. Actually, your gut's deciding for you. And what we did was put the information together. So we realized since the colon or the last part of your gut is good at tasting nutrients and it's where all these L cells are, surely it must be a way that these two things are communicating. nutrients must be communicating with L cells and doing something.

And so we asked that question, which no one had asked before, and we studied this in human gut tissue, and we found, lo and behold, a combination of nutrients that when stimulating the L cells at the same time, super boosts the release of GLP1 and PYY. And so that was that moment I talked about earlier of what was that aha moment, what was the biggest moment in your life? It was when I did that experiment, I was looking at the computer as the results are coming, And I was like, what's going on here? This is not right.

The numbers are all too high. And I went and did the experiments again and got the same result. And that's when we knew, oh, my goodness, nutrients and a particular combination of nutrients are extremely good at getting your guts L cells to release GOP1 and PYY. And that's when we knew it's a great way of getting your own body to release its own gut hormones that reduce appetite. Are you one of those media strategy people clicking through slides, scrolling spreadsheets? Yes? Good. This is for you. Because on Spotify, there's an audience that's different. Locked in. Loyal, invested. They're called fans. Fans don't just listen to music. They feel seen by it like it belongs to them. So when your brand shows up on Spotify, that's who you're talking to. And you're right next to artists like me, Lizzo. So are you ready to talk to fans? Spotify advertising. You're among fans. Wow. You mentioned GLP1. So I believe that you, L cella, has been called Nature's GLP 1. So for those listening who don't know what GLP 1 is, those are your OZempics, your Wagovis. What are your thoughts on being called nature's GRP1?

So we think that it's actually incorrect because both of those things don't make sense because OZNPIC is actually a drug. and GOP1 is a hormone that we all have. So while it's almost a flattering comparison, it's not correct because what we're doing is getting your own body to release its own hormones. And so we ask a question, why do you need to depend on something synthetic like a drug and injected into your body when you already have the power to just release it better? So that's why we're fundamentally different from the injectables and from anti-abesity medication. we don't put artificial gut hormones in your body.

We just get your body to release its own gut hormones. And that's a natural process. And it's just about optimizing that process and getting it in that rhythm back to where it should be that's going to help people. And what's a fundamental thing that happens in obesity particularly is that the G.R.P.1 and the PYY levels in these people are perpetually low, even after they lose weight. So we don't know why the reason is exactly for that to happen, but what we can tell you is in our clinical trials, we studied obese individuals. We gave them the L-Sela formulation and we could see when they were on the placebo, their PYY and GLP1 levels were pretty flat. And that's what we would have expected. On L-Cella, they were actually able to normalize and increase their GLP1 and

PYY levels. And we were so thrilled because it showed what we found in the lab was true when you actually translated into real people in a clinical trial. So we all have the power to boost our own physiology. And we've just found a way to do it that's very much steeped in science, validated in clinical trials, but completely natural. The other thing that's important to remember about JLP-1 anti-abrese medications is that what happens when you come to? mothed the gLP ones, right? So studies, clinical studies show that within a year, two-thirds of the body weight goes back on. And that's fundamentally why it's different from what we're doing is because you're injecting

a synthetic version of the hormone that your body already produces. So when you remove that synthetic version of a hormone, which is at a super physiological level that really shouldn't be in that level in your body. And when you remove that, your body doesn't know how to react. So it kind of goes back to, oh, my God, I'm going to preserve all the fat. Whereas what we're doing with L-cellar is completely different, as Medusha says, we're getting your own body, your colon, the L-cells in your colon to release its very own JLP one. So it really doesn't matter what your BMI is, if you're overweight or obese,

we all have the same number of L cells that produce this. All we need to do is really wake them up. I always describe L cells in different stages of sleep. Some are in a coma, some are a bit active. Obviously our diets and other things have affected the L-cell baseline health essentially of it. So what we need to is really wake them up so that they can function optimally as a person who's lean who has a great diet. That's all we're trying to do, getting your own body to work better for you and optimise your own gut health and very much starting at the gut. So I think it's really important to understand why people regain that weight.

It's because you're removing something synthetic that shouldn't have been in your body at that level in the first place. It's really useful that you said super physiological because I saw a video recently and it was, talking about, I think dieticians and nutritionists who talk about this natural GLP1 boosting effect of certain foods. They pointed out that actually the GLP1 medications, injections, it's a very different level. What can you tell me about the research in terms of what is the natural level compared to the OZMPIC, Wigovi level of GRP1's released? and what is the effect of those levels over the long term when you're trying to get it to release naturally? The studies that have looked at GLP 1 effectiveness don't actually measure how much GLP 1 is actually in the circulation.

They want to validate that it works, so they use different doses, but they're not actually measuring how much is circulating in the body. I think there is a capacity for us to obviously release natural GLP 1. that's how we're made. But what El Sala does is it provides a boost that you just can't get with diet alone. And so we don't want people to be on our Sala forever. In fact, we do things completely differently. El Sala, you start off on the high dose, on the max dose, and over three to six months, your gut becomes better.

It becomes healthier. It wakes up. And then you actually half your dose. And then you continue halving your dose until you come to a point where Ruby and I are. We take LSLM maybe once a day and we might take one capsule. We might take two capsules. It's kind of dependent on how I feel. But I know that my gut health is optimized because I used to be that person at 5 o'clock

in the afternoon. My energy levels were just, you know, tank. And I would be really hungry. By the time I went home, raiding the snack, rea for snacks. We're all guilty of that. But that's because your body's, you know, hungry, needs energy. And what we want to do is help people maintain a. better, more steady level of energy, and that comes from gut hormones.

GOP1 is a great example. It manages insulin levels, right? So that regulates how well your energy is managed throughout the day. Your body is smart. It doesn't want you to not eat. It wants you to eat and it wants you to provide energy, but you have a certain number of L cells in your body. There's a plateau.

There's a ceiling effect, if you will. And so that's why you take L cell a twice a day because you want to mimic the normal release of these hormones which go up and they go down. But it's about getting those levels back up to what they should be. Your question about JLP 1 is, I think the way the JLP 1 injectables, the synthetic version is that they've got to artificially modified the JLP 1 so that it's meant to last in your body much longer. Seven days. Seven days, exactly. Whereas natural JLP 1 that's produced by your L cells is around for a shorter time and is quickly cleaved. And that's evolution. That's how our body's been designed. So that JLP 1's released is cleave.

off and then it's released. But the injectables or the anti-obesity medications, the GOP1 maintains in your body for such a long time. And actually, we don't know what the long-term effects are of having GLP1 in your body for a long time, the synthetic version particularly. Obviously, we've heard stories about, you know, adverse effects like pancreatitis and gallbladderstones, etc. But there hasn't been enough time yet or robust clinical longitudinal studies to understand what the long-term effects are. But I would definitely tread with caution and definitely not treat it as a lifestyle medication and take JLP ones if prescribed by your physician. I've had a lot of experiences in clinical practice when there were people who were taking

GLP ones not prescribed to them coming into the hospital because they were, you know, they were very, very unwell. And being someone who was battled with my weight, I really respect them as a useful medication for so many people. Definitely. Especially in the current food climate, especially in the current work climate. It does worry me because also I think that our appetite, are really important. An regulated appetite, you know, an appetite that tells us when we need to eat

and especially as in, for women specifically, who have existed through 90s diet culture, through the resurgence of skinny talk, that's what worries me is it may be a drug that disregulates your appetite in the opposite direction that lasts in your body for seven days. Are these studies available for people to read

so we can pop them in the show notes for anyone? Absolutely, definitely. Good. And this is for all. the women out there. This thing about food and women and their relationship with food is different to men and it's down to female hormones. And there is good data to show that actually during Luteal phase, so just probably two weeks before your period, women definitely eat more. But there's a reason for that. You have to prepare potentially for a pregnancy. You have to prepare for your,

you know, for the lining of your uterus to, you know, disengage. So we have to have to be able to, you of different, women have different needs and women therefore have different relationship with food biologically. It's a different game for us. And menopause, perimenopause, puberty, all of those events in our lives influence food intake. And there's not enough studies, honestly, in women, especially about women, their hormones, how they interact with gut hormones, etc. And appetite, there's only one or two, but they're starting to show that estrogen, for example, is influencing how certain gut hormones like CCK, which suppresses appetite, functions. So there is a very intricate relationship.

It's complicated. And it's not just about the gut as well. It's about how we feel. It's mood. It's definitely about reproductive hormones. So it's tough out there. It's tough being a woman. And it's not always down to things that you can control.

100%. It's, yeah, all the biological factors and then throw societal factors in the It's so tricky. It is. It is. I have a short clip for you guys that I would love to hear your expert opinion on. This is the section called Real or Not Real. I'm going to show you a clip on social media where we know some things may be real or may not be real. And I would love your expert opinion. So I'll read them out in case you didn't see them. So seven warning signs you have a bad gut, constantly craving sugar, always tired even after a full night's breath. extremely puffy around midsection, super bloated and abdominal pain, bad breath,

puffy skin, skin's not clearing up. And then here's how I naturally healed my gut and then some gummies. A couple of them are actually true. Yeah, I think all of those things, the most important thing is good nutrition. Nutrition is the most important thing. You can supplement all you like, you can supplement stack. But I think delivering nutrients to the gut in the right way and getting nutrients, nutrition and micronutrients, macronutrients, vitamins, minerals from your diet is the most important thing. I mean, I'm not specific about certain things that they've shown, but I do think skin is a reflection of your gut. So if you have good gut health, it does show on your skin. And that's because your gut epithelium, the molecules of the squamous epithelium that make

up your gut lining is very much similar to the skin. So it is a reflection of good guts. But it's not sort of unique to it because there are hormonal fluctuations that affects skin to. Cortisol, also affects your skin health. So I wouldn't say there is a relationship, but it's not everything. If you've got acne, for example, you can't just say, you know what, it's all down to my gut health. There's lots of different factors that play with different things. For example, reproductive hormones that affect acne as well and androgens and other things that I can go on. But yes, energy levels. I think, again, it goes back to nutrition and feeding your gut the right nutrients. Because when you don't have good nutrients, your energy levels are unstable.

I think sugar cravings, and we call it, we talk about it as food noise, that constantly, And I know you mentioned Faye, you've got this sugar cravings. So with food noise, what we think is it's actually a physiological phenomenon that human beings represent as a psychological feeling, but it's actually all starting in the gut. So these cravings that you had, whether it's sugar cravings or salty cravings, it really is about your gut not being optimized because you're not feeding the gut right. And there's no really a single measure of good gut health. And it's really difficult to say that, you know what, I could do this test.

And that's going to say that I'm great with my gut health amazing. But the gut is a complex organ that we need to take care of. Nice. I would say there are some parts of it that are worth taking note of. So if you are feeling constantly tired, it does show that your gut health may not be optimal because energy is regulated by blood glucose, which is regulated by insulin, which is influenced by GLP1 and other hormones. But GLP1 comes from your gut.

So if you're not feeding yourself and the health of your gut is not optimal, then you're not releasing sufficient gLP one in and around, especially after meals. So I think that's a good indicator that you probably do need to take care of your gut bit better. My thing about bloating is if your bloating is really painful and it's, you know, affecting your health and how you carry out your daily life, you probably should go and see a GP, potentially even a gastroenterologist if you get referred. But bloating in general is part of normal gut health. Because when you have, you have a GP, have good gut mark a biome, they're going to produce gas. And it's pretty innocuous. It's normal. We always say, go for a walk. I always say, let it out. And, you know, don't take bloating as something

that's a chronic condition. It's part of life. And really, it's just normal gas buildup. So unless it's becoming a really big problem and it's painful, you should treat bloating as like, actually, it's a good sign. Yeah, I'm so glad you said that about senior GP because one of the things that really irritates me as a clinician is whenever the conversation comes up about blotting and gut health, it's always linked to gut health. I don't think it's spoken about enough that one of the earliest signs of ovarian cancer, which is notoriously difficult to spot, is bloating. And we have all these conversations about blotin and gut health, but never, do you know what, if there's a sudden change in the way that in your bloating, blotin that doesn't go away, bloating that isn't linked necessarily

Lisa, your eating patterns, please go and see your doctor. Please don't just try another supplement to try and fix it. It could be an early warning sign of something serious. 100%. I think I couldn't agree more on taking notice of your gut health is very important, particularly for colon cancer because if you wait too long, and it's really notoriously hard to look at these symptoms and not get dismissed. So you know your body best.

if you see changes in your bowel habits and they're frequent changes in your bowel habits, you should definitely see a GP fast and you should really push. If you feel something is wrong, you should really push to get seen by a gastroenterologist and get a scoping because colon cancer is on the rise for young people particularly. And it's so important that we take notice of our symptoms and not just go, I'm going to, like you say, it's going to take a gut supplement, I'm going to take a probiotic, have some kombucha, you know, go and TikTok and see what the girlies are doing because there may be some actual major issues going on

then we're not taking them seriously. I would love to know your advice on how you'd recommend anyone listening navigates the world of social media, misinformation. I think personally my personal viewpoint is I love social media where I think it's an incredible, incredibly powerful tool. And the rise in misinformation stems from doctors. historically dismissing patients' concerns. So patients, where do patients turn?

They turn to social media. It is open for exploitation, particularly at the end of that TikTok. It was a valid TikTok. There was a lot of really valid points, but it was to sell some gummies. Now, I don't know what your guys' opinions are on gummies. Very low opinion. Bye, yeah. Bye, bye, bye, bye, bye, any gummies ever.

Bye, bye, bye, bye. Some people love gummies and I don't know why. Gummies, guys, it's just marketing. The amount of a sweetener that's in gummies shocks me, honestly. I mean, definitely a bye-bye moment for Gummies. I just don't think there have anything beneficial to gut health. And particularly, there are no clinical studies. There are no evidence behind them.

So if you can show me a great randomized control trial with this number of people and they're showing the positive effects with a placebo control, then I'll be like, yes, great. But if that hasn't happened, I definitely bye-bye to Gubbies. You gave some really important terms. and my rule of them ever, any brands that I work with, the first thing when they reach out, because some brands will still send me gummies. I would never promote gummies.

If I ever promote gummies, you know, I'm really hitting rock bottom. But the first thing I always say is, can they send me their studies? That's the first thing. And then it is phenomenal how many brands cannot send any studies. So that's my personal way to navigate, but as a doctor, that is how I navigate the world of, There's always a new product. There's always a new piece of advice. Yeah. Now, you mentioned some really important words.

Would you mind explaining to the audience? What you mean when you say randomised placebo-controlled trial? Randomised control trial means essentially trials that happen in a clinical trials unit. And they're randomized, which means the investigator, which is called the principal investigator, doesn't know which group these one category is going into, whether they're getting the active treatment or the placebo. And a placebo is really important because there's always a placebo effect. So you need to know how much of that placebo is having an influence in the results that you're seeing. And then you can cross it over, which is fantastic. So you can see the same person on an active versus the same person on a placebo and see the effect of the actual active, taking away the effect of the placebo.

And that's a real true indicator or a measure of whatever you're testing, whether it's a gummy, which would be great, or anything that you are testing in the laboratory. So a randomized control trial in a clinical setting done by professionals who understand how to. to run clinical studies is really, really important. Yeah. And I think it is actually a really such a useful tool when you're looking to spend money because I think that we have to acknowledge that when you spend money on something, that's money that's being taken away from something else. And if you're choosing to spend money on gut health gummies,

that could be money that is being taken away from your fruit and veg. Totally. Exactly. And I think, you know, what we want people to do is be discerning and not get pulled into this fad. Sometimes it's a fad of gut health. And there is validity, I think, to hear people's stories and hear people's journeys. But the most important thing is to understand where the evidence comes from because each person's gut is unique. And therefore, each person's journey is unique. And I would be careful and tread carefully when it comes to people selling something things.

You know, they're probably getting paid for it. And what's the real intention here? And I think for us, we are so different. We're not influences. I didn't have social media until a couple of years ago. I was very boring and I liked being boring because I focused on what I love doing and we just love learning about the gut. And so we got here as accidental entrepreneurs and we're sitting in front of you as people who never really been on a podcast before. We're not comfortable necessarily constantly talking about what we do, but we're very comfortable looking at a microcontractual. microscope or looking under a microscope or running a randomized control study. But your point for you, I think it's really important.

Social media is how people are now absorbing information. They're not going to their doctors. They're looking at other people, what's happening with them and real user testimonials, right? So we understand the need for being on social media, therefore, and educating people, the right things in the right way. We're not just a brand with somebody we have paid for and saying, you know, to go and sell it. We say take our product, see what it's like, see the benefits that you have. And we are very much about gut health first. And as Medusa says, every guts is different.

Even studies that we do with inbred mice, their guts are different. So you imagine humans, we're so diverse. Ethnicity or genetics, our epigenetics. There's so many different things that affect us as people. Even the way we live, our environment influences our gut. So I think the important thing for us is, yes, we are going to be more on the social media side of things because we want to educate the community about the fundamentals of what the gut is and how we can really optimize gut health from the source.

And that's what we really believe in, nutrition, nutrients in the right area, optimizing gut health, getting those al-cells to do what they're made to do, that they were intended to do. And I think for us, education is one of the most important things for us. The most fun part of my job is to educate. And even when I used to go into clinics and see IBS patients, I had lots of abdominal pain. And they were constant and dismissed because it's just gut problems. Gut problems, like you say, you know, bloating is such an important indicator of ovarian cancer. people dismiss them very easily, but actually they are patients who are going through so much. The quality of life is so poor because of these symptoms that they have in their GI tract.

So for me, I want to go on the world stand and tell everybody that GI health is so fundamentally important. Brain's important, the liver's important, the lungs are important, but GI tract is your connection to the outside world people. And we need to focus on GI health, particularly even more so women's health, right? There's very little evidence or education or even research. Funding research in women's health is so poor at the moment. So gut health is one thing, but definitely understanding women and how that affects their guts as well. It's an under-researched area completely. And we're very passionate about doing more.

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And I think we don't study it enough in a way that prioritizes understanding women's hormones and their cycles as well. We just kind of like study as a blanket. And it's very hard to study IBS as well. It's a group of symptoms. But I think fundamentally what I would say is that what we're trying to achieve here is a strategy that is very much gut-centric. It puts the control back in your hands.

And it gives you control of your appetite. And, you know, let's be real. Everyone thinks about food all the time. I do. It's not just a huge noise. It's part of being alive. It's part of being human. And so I think for us, what always shocks us is,

when we hear stories about people on Azampec or the Injectibles, and they just forget to eat. And then when they do eat, they're eating a tub of ice cream. And so their actual nutritional intake is so poor. And this is that idea or the effect of muscle loss. and muscle wastage, which is so bad because your basal metabolic rate is how you burn energy. Muscles do that way more than any other type, like fat cells, for example. So the more muscle you have, the more energy you're burning.

And so if you're losing muscle, your basal metabolic rates going through the floor and you're not eating, you're not providing any nutrients. I mean, really, what are you trying to achieve here? Like you say, there are people absolutely fundamentally who need these medications, because it's been studied on these patients, right? Obesity, type 2 diabetes, you know, certain other comorbidities. But as a lifestyle choice, we would err caution and we think that Elsa is a great alternative for people who need to come off the GLP ones, people who are GLP1 curious.

It kind of, what is it? Am I interested? I wouldn't mind. But you don't need to because there's an alternative and that's what Elseller does. And then also for gut health in general. We're saying what gut health 2.0, aren't we? So we're not just one point over that everyone else talks about the fads out there, the wellness industry that's that feeding on this trend. But we very much are gut health 2.0, which is like the upgrade of the gut, start out the root, really understand the gut.

And that's what we're here to do. Really educate people about the gut and how we can really optimize it. So this is a term that we now use. Nice. So I'm sure other people don't jump on the bandwagon, but we are gut health 2.0. Nice. And we've been studying the gut way before it was cool. Yeah.

So we reserve the right. to call it gut health 2.0. I'm very, very sad because it's been a wonderful episode, but it's time for the final question that we ask all our guests. What do you both wish every woman knew before she was 25? I used to stress so much about the future and what the future would look like. And I had a view of what the future might look like for me particularly. And it didn't turn out that way necessarily at all because there are so many things that you can control and so many things fundamentally that you can't control. So my advice and what I wish I knew was at that time was just dream. Dream big. Seriously, dream big. Don't let anything kind of hold you back because if you

don't dream big, you'll never really know what it would be like. And I love to think outside the mold and be different. It's hard to be different, by the way. But I assure you being different, thinking big and just dreaming is going to help you get to a place that you would never have actually dreamed of. I mean, I don't know how to top that one. For me, I think what women under 25, before 25, what we lack is confidence. I think we're so unsure of ourselves. We don't know what's happening with life. Lots of things are changing.

Our hormones are constantly changing. We have periods to deal with, our menstrual cycle to deal with. And I think what I wish I could have told myself before 25 is like, you've got this. You can do it. And someone to say that, you know, I wish someone pushed me to say that it's okay. Again, the dreaming is really important. But I think believing in yourself is so important. And you're never going to be amazing at one thing or another thing.

And that's okay. You don't have to compare yourself to the next person. Be the best that you can be for yourself. Reach your own targets. And that's fine. If you're looking always next door, my friend's doing this or someone else doing this, that's not going to help you. You have to be the best version of yourself.

And I think I wish someone had told me that. because as a woman of color, a woman from ethnic minority, a background, I think there are very few people who I could look up to similar that look like me, speak like me, are from the same place as I am from East London. But it's just for me to see that now that more people in STEM are doing all these things and lots of multicultural women who are successful entrepreneurs, scientists, brilliant doctors. For me, it gives me a hope and I hope the 25-year-olds and under now can see that I can also do that. Those were two absolutely beautiful answers.

They were really wonderful. Thank you so, so much for coming on the podcast. We will leave the links to the studies in the description and the links to you guys and I'll sell it as well. So thank you so much. Thank you. Hey y'all, it's Kelly Clarkson with Wayfair. Ever order furniture online and wonder what if? Like, what if it doesn't hold up? That sofa was four days old. You should have ordered from Wayfair. With Wayfair, there's no what if. Just style you love and quality you can trust. Visit Wayfair.ca. Wayfair, every style, every home. That's for having us.