Her Discussions by Dr Faye - How to Support Trans People In Everyday Life

Episode Date: April 6, 2026

Kenny Ethan Jones is a leading trans activist and author, and the first trans man to front a period campaign.We explore how to find your true identity, how and why people detransition, and the influence J.K. Rowling has on trans people.What you’ll learn:🙌 How to support trans people in everyday life📚 The 1 book to read to understand the struggles trans people face🧠 How to deal with self-confidence issues💡 The real reason why people detransition🚩 The biggest lie about puberty blockersBut first, please don’t forget to subscribe and share, it really helps us to grow this podcast.Resources & links mentioned:-Kenny’s Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/kennyethanjones/-Period Underwear Brand: www.lostfame.comLinks to subscribe / follow:Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/her-discussions-by-dr-faye/id1835829612Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5viLYizHD4Zy6J42iqtPRoCan I ask you a BIG favour? 💙Please leave a review or rating. It helps us grow the podcast and bring you more amazing guests.Share with someone who needs this; it might help them live a happier, healthier life.Follow us on social media or join the broadcast channel to send us your questions for our guests. I'll leave the link here: https://www.instagram.com/channel/AbY4liwxlLnewx4H/?igsh=MWhuaXFweGtucTB3cA== https://www.instagram.com/channel/AbY4liwxlLnewx4H/?igsh=MWhuaXFweGtucTB3cA==🛑 Disclaimers:Opinions are my own. This content is for educational / entertainment purposes and not medical or financial advice.

When I was younger, I suffered with a lot of self-confident issues. I got a message from a friend at the time basically saying, I'm so proud of you, I always knew you'd be someone special. And I thought, what is she talking about? Kenny is a leading trans activist and author, but today he'll be talking about his journey with accepting himself, donating his eggs to his sister, and even J.K. Rowling. Growing up, there wasn't this massive resistance towards me being trans,

if I'm honest, there was a lot more respect given at that time. Now it's a lot harder to be a trans person. How did that impact you on a personal level? You have to have really thick skin. Yeah. To be able to continue to be in as well as a trans person at the moment. At every corner, you are told that you don't deserve to be loved. You don't deserve to be in any spaces.

There's actually no home for you. Why, under that pressure, why would you not want to go back to a life that's simpler? There's a very intentional reason that you're the first man to be a guest on this podcast, because before we get into the conversation, please make sure that you're subscribed or you have left a five-star review. Please, it really, really helps us. Keep bringing you guests

to help you live a happier, healthier life. Thank you. Hi, I'm Kenny Ethan Jones and this is her discussions podcast. So, Kenny, our community has sent in so many questions. But first of all, I've just loved to know how did you end up sitting in this chair right now? Story from start to,

where we are today. Okay. So when I was younger, I suffered with a lot of like self-confident issues. And one of my sister's ideas of how to, I don't know, get me to blossom essentially, was to join a modern agency. And I said, oh, I don't know if I want to be a model, but I really loved what models did, the lifestyle that they had, should I mean, spending time in beautiful places, beautiful people, the environments, the partying, like that.

That was very much an attractive lifestyle to me. So I said, do you know what, I'll sign to an agency. I went looking and I tried to find one and I found one that was known at the time as probably the most creativity kind of like agency. It had a lot of like the man with the most tattoos, the women of the most piercings, kind of like quote unquote weirdos, right? Yeah. And so I was like, I love this so much. I really want to be a part of this family. So I signed. And I ended up doing a few modeling jobs. And I was like, right, you know, throwing me into the deep end here is not making me more confident. But I thought, I'll keep going. I'll see what happens. Anyways.

did that for a few months and then I ended up doing a campaign for Sky and it was a pride campaign. Yeah. And for the first time I had the opportunity to talk about my identity. And I don't know, something about it just really resonated with me and made my heart smile. And I remember the next couple of weeks, there was like the campaign, the pictures of the campaign was essentially parts of people's faces merged together and saying that were all one. And I remember seeing it going on a train one day, coming back from work or whatever, and thinking, oh my God, that was so cool. I'm so proud of myself for being a part of that. And just thinking that I want to do more work like that, but wasn't sure what it was called.

Because, you know, modeling was just standing in front of camera. And, you know, I didn't know what activism was, but that was the opportunity to talk about my identity. Anyways, I did it. And in a couple of weeks, I got an email from my agent saying, hey, we've got this job for you. Not sure you want to do it, but we think he'll be perfect. I said, okay. And it was to front a period campaign. And I said, right, I think you've sent this to the wrong person.

That was my initial thought. And they said, no, they want to celebrate everybody who experiences periods. And that's inclusive of trans men. And I said, right, okay. I'm not sure. And so I spoke to my family and friends about it because at that time, and still today, biology is used as a way to dismiss trans people. And so I wasn't sure about bringing alignment between my

in that of cis women. And so spent some time thinking about it and just thought, you know what, why not? Why wouldn't I do this? Like, I want to be a part of this conversation. What they're discussing is true. Trans people should be able to celebrate their period if they want to or to ignore it if they want to. It should be their choice. And so, yeah, let's do it. And so I took part in that campaign, not knowing what to expect or what would become of this. But I woke up to many messages from girls that I used to go to school with. I went to an all-girls school. Oh God, that must have been. We'll come back to that.

Yeah, we'll come back to that. It was a lot. But I got a message from a friend at the time basically saying, I'm so proud of you. I always knew you'd be someone special. And I thought, what is she talking about? Because I didn't know when the campaign was coming out. So I didn't know that she had seen this.

And then I saw the link and I saw, oh, this is the campaign. Anyways, it got to a point where my phone was vibrating so much from the notifications that it just turned off. Yeah. Right. And then I, you know, by the end of the week, had 300 major pieces of press. You know, I had glamour in my DMs, Vogue,

and all these massive media outlets that I'd only ever seen, you know, on the shops and it was crazy. And yeah, I just had an opportunity to then continue to do that work and continue to talk about periods or, I guess, to go back to my regular day job. And I thought to myself,

I'm really enjoying this work. And something about it feels really special and needed and necessary. And if all these, big companies are saying, hey, we want to hear what you have to say, then my voice is obviously required here. And so that's where it all kind of started. And that was eight years ago now. Where was the trans landscape like eight years ago? Because I'd imagine you've seen a huge shift in the last eight years. I would say, I mean, yeah, it depends what you think, but I would say probably

not all positive. No, do you know what's funny? Whenever I'm asked this question, it kind of makes me happy and sad at the same time because growing up, there wasn't this massive resistance towards me being trans, if I'm honest. It was very much, I'm a boy and people would say, okay, so Kenny's a boy. And it was really that simple.

There was a lot more respect given at that time. I don't think people understood it, but it was just very much that's who Kenny is, you know? And so I was allowed to be myself a lot more and I didn't have, you know, the negativity that follows being trans today. It was very much.

I just got on with life and people left me to do that. But, you know, given the last couple of years and how trans people have just used as this kind of bright prawn in the media to avoid talking about things that we need to be talking about. Yeah, bigger discussion there. Yeah. But yeah, since, you know,

so now it's a lot harder to be a trans person and honestly, I think I would really struggle being, like, transitioning today versus when I did. Do you know what I mean? Because there's so many things that you're trying to figure out, you know, you're trying to figure out, your PBE and navigating just normal teenager stuff. And then you've got this world putting this pressure on you and saying,

oh, you're a nasty person. You shouldn't be in these spaces. Like it's incredibly difficult for young trans people today versus my childhood. So very different environment. There's a very intentional reason that you're the first man to be a guest on this podcast. And also thank you. There's been a couple men come up and I've gone, no, no, no. The first man has to be, there has to be a reason because I'm not breaking this streak for anyone.

the reason for you particularly is because like maybe honestly I think maybe like three years ago I sent Kenny like a really panicked message because I was doing a video on periods and I was like I really want it to be inclusive can you just look at this and like does this is this inclusive and Kenny's response I think I think my message to you came from a place of where the media spreads division in a lot of ways and Kenny's response was Faye you're doing your already doing more than most people like this that's okay that you're doing it's okay and then it really made me reflect because there are a couple people who I know who are trans but not like I don't know many people who are trans and the it really I've taken that story with me through so many

conversations in my life since you said that to me because I think yeah I think a lot of the the debate against trans people is, well, you can't say anything these days or the whole, well, we can't say women's health. We can't say this, we can't say that. And I will bring up that story and say, well, have you ever actually spoken to a trans person? Because if you speak to a trans person, they will probably say to you, trans people are facing so many bigger issues than, like, have you actually asked a trans person, do you care? Is this, is the language that I'm using? And I think The sense that I got from you when I messaged you was like, you're trying and you're verbally

expressing your support for trans people and verbally expressing that you recognize their existence and you validate their existence. Another fucking human being, sorry, excuse my language, just the really, really, really basics. And, you know, I think it tends to be, we'll come on to, there's some questions about JK Rowling which will come on to him.

But it does tend to. to be these, it does tend to be older. The, like my, not my mom, my mom is pro trans, that sort of generation who probably did have to fight quite hard for, to be, face a lot more sexism than I will face. Yeah. And then they've decided to turn that against. They've tried to direct the pain that they face towards trans people rather than, you know, these other systems that exist.

There was so many questions about how. how people can just support trans people in their everyday life. Okay. Well, first of all, thank you for sharing that story with me. I didn't realize that that message meant so much to you and that, you know, you still care it to this day. For me, it was just a simple response, but you never, I say that to say you never know how much something's going to mean to somebody.

And so, like, I'm glad that, yeah, I've just kind of, yeah, yeah, I just wanted to say that. But I think as well that when that's a good way of thinking about how people should show up for trans people. It's about making an effort. First of all, do you know what I mean? I more than most people understand that, you know, nobody is perfect. And it's not about perfection, you know. And I do think that language is important, but actually having a conversation first is more important.

When I work with companies a lot, I do like luncheons and we discuss like trans issues and they have questions. And the number one fear comes from people of going, I don't want to say something that upsets you. And I say, first of all, I know your intention. And if your intention is good, I don't care about what wording we have to use to get there to have this conversation. Because if that's going to be the thing that stops us from having that, then it's not worth it. You know what I mean? So I think, first of all, don't be afraid to kind of like engage. And any trans person who understands your intention will understand that it's okay if you say a few things wrong.

And also, if they're an activist in any way like I am, they'll educate. at you and I'll say, hey, no, probably shouldn't say something like that. Maybe use this next time, do you know what I mean? But I think the greatest advice I can give to somebody is about using your personal resource to help trans people because I think it's very easy to go or educate people or donate to charities and stuff. And that's all well and good. But I think it's about using what skills you have to help others. And so for instance, like today you have me here, giving me a platform as a way to discuss why people should be pro trans. That's how you're contributing to that conversation and that moving.

If, I don't know, let's say you own a coffee shop, you might lend the space out for trans youth to come and have a discussion with other trans youth or the parents of trans kids to be able to come and meet up and have a coffee and have a chat and, you know, just space to be safe in. And so I think it's about, yeah, just utilising what you have. For instance, if you are a good writer, maybe you'll help some young trans people write some CVs, you know, help them get into employment. you know if you work for a clovering brand you might help dress them if they're in a position where they're experiencing body dysmorphia you can help like style them in a way that makes them feel comfortable there's so many different things that you can do but I just think it's about really thinking about what do I have that would help somebody else your sense of home in your body is constantly evolving and has been evolving like from the beginning right up until now

I'd imagine it was probably quite difficult to do a period campaign or how did that, I don't know, how did that impact you on a personal level? It's obviously such an incredible thing to be doing for other people who experienced that but I'd imagine it probably did weigh quite heavily on you. That's a really good question and I don't think I've ever been asked that. I think I wasn't ready and I just did it anyways. If I'm being totally honest. Yeah.

I still had a really rough relationship with period. in which I kind of just ignored because I wasn't having them anymore. Yeah. I didn't solve it. And so I just, I did it out of wanting to help the next person. Yeah. Even if I and myself wasn't fully resolved, essentially. And then I realized with every conversation that I was having,

specifically with other women, and they were saying, you know, I hate my period too. I'm like, oh, so it's not just me. So like, we all collectively don't really like them. And that every conversation that I had, I found very healing to the point. point where I was having conversations where, like, when I'm dating women, and, you know, they're, you know, they're used to partners that might dismiss them having periods, for instance. And she comes up to me and she says, hey, you know, having my period, I'm a bit grumpy or whatever. I'm just like, okay, like, but she knows I can relate to that experience.

So it's not even a thing in our relationship. So periods ended up being quite beautiful in the sense as well, you know, when my sister was having periods and they, she would turn around and say to me, hey, you know, I'm having a bad period day and I just thought, okay, you know, that really does suck. And she knows I know that it sucks because I've also been there. And so actually going through the time of having periods and then being a part of campaigns and having conversations in real life about it really actually helped me heal my period to the point where now, you know, I started my own masculine period underwear company,

which we'll discuss later, I'm sure. Yeah. You know, it just evolved. And so, yeah, just it was really beneficial to me personally. But I obviously hope that I changed the narrative in the conversation and contribute. it's a wider societal change because, in my opinion, what I'm doing in the period space is about creating period equality and without trans people that doesn't exist.

Let's talk about the new brand. Yes, of course. Yeah, so Lost Fame was my birth child. You know, I just, it's something I'd been thinking about for a long time. Like I said, I've worked in the active in the space for about eight years now. And a lot of that had been with period care companies. And whenever I would say to them, hey, I think, you should create a product specifically for trans people

or just people who don't prefer feminine styles. Yeah. I was ignored. And I got really frustrated with being ignored. And I said, do you know what? I'm just going to do it then. If they don't want to help me, I'll just do it. And so I spent three years obsessing over different materials,

different fits and trying to figure out, like, who is this brand going to be for? Because I didn't want to just make it for trans people. I wanted it to be everyone that felt excluded. And, yeah, right. I just said, I just tried and kept going and eventually I stumbled across freestyles that I felt really comfortable with and one's more of a unisex style, one's more of a, you know, your typical Calvin Klein fit and then ones are really masculine, like what I would want when I was, you know,

13 years old, long boxer and, you know, very thick waistband and again, helped me heal my relationship with my period, but ultimately has helped other people. as well, you know, one of the greatest feedbacks that we get is I just feel so seen in these and these are so comfortable. And like, it's so funny because some of the comments on Instagram specifically will be like from cis women go, I don't, I feel ashamed that I didn't even think about this, you know? And I'm like, there's no embarrassment there, you know, the marketing of periods and a conversation has always been had from this cis female perspective and very like narrow around femininity. Do you know what I mean? Well, do you know, not even because it's like the way

that period products, they don't even have blood it on. It's all. almost like not even from a woman's perspective. It's from like a man's perspective who does not even want to think about like periods. It's just completely detached from because even now like I think about it and I think do you know what? Probably when I was like 14 even as as a cis girlie pop like I would I would I'd love like a little pair of boxes instead of some pads that just like get in the way of everything you know the feedback you get it makes people feel like a scene Yeah, it's really comfortable. And like you said, you know, there's some women out there

that just want a bit more of a boxer short. Yeah. And so, yeah, the feedback so far has been excellent. And so just working on building that and seeing what the future holds. But yeah, it feels really healing, again, to be able to create something for younger Kenny, because I would have loved to have had that product when I was younger. So, and yeah, I imagine lots of people today do feel the same way.

I feel like I need to get my hands on some of those boxer shorts because I always wear my boyfriend's, like, just for comfort. And I'm like, oh my God, if I can have those on my period, I love that. Well, the fits are really incredible. I think one of the things that we do that's unique is it's a two and one construction. So it's like two pairs of underwear essentially. So you have an inner layer that's the brief that catches the blood and keeps you secure.

And then there's an outer layer of the boxer. So they're separate and they attach it the waistband. And so it's a really loose, comfortable fit on the outside and then a really close fit to catch the blood and make sure that you don't leak on the inside. Oh, I love that. That is brilliant. I'd imagine that required like a lot of innovation from, yeah. And I didn't know what I was doing. I didn't understand materials or anything like that. So it, you know, required me having a lot of conversations with many different people and finding out even the fact that certain material doesn't stretch in both directions, like small things like that. And you know, when you're stitching materials together about, you know, sometimes they're too thick and they get clunky and it doesn't really work. It's just things like that. And then breathable fabrics, what fabric? bricks are best for our bodies, especially because it's touching a vagina. Yeah.

Things like that. It's just, yeah, there's such a science behind it, you know, and then creating the layers itself to catch the blood. Yeah. It's just, it's wild. Do you know what? It's so funny because actually, when I started developing Los Fame and I was looking at studies for how companies were determining how much blood the period underwent actually

held. Yeah. There wasn't any. It's not actually, it wasn't actually done with real blood. This is like the way that, when I say there's more that you, unites us than divides us when women are being like anti-trans. It's like guys, they don't care about us either. They're sharing the same problems.

Yeah, yeah. Like there's not even studies done on. And you know what? When you was talking about the advertising, all I was thinking about was when there was period ad campaigns and it was blue blood instead of red blood. Yeah. Yeah, like there's so much more that unites us than divides us. No, definitely. We need to, we need to stand together, stronger together as we say.

J.K. Rowling has frequently. questioned within this space around trans activism, arguing that it takes away women's rights and sex-based protection. She says she does support trans people's right to live comfortably, but believes biological sex is paramount. What would you say on this? People that are, you know, on the fence or against trans people, this is the main argument that's happening. And I, you know, I like to come from a place of empathy and understanding. And the first place that I stand from when I think about this conversation when I think about if I was a woman and you know I feel like my space quote unquote is being threatened the threat is coming from cis men let's just start there right

it's not coming from trans women but because of the proximity bodily wise I think that there's a shared fear and that's a lot of the reason why we're seeing lots of debates about trans women shouldn't be able to use women's bathrooms but when we're talking about facts statistics and what's actually happening the evidence speaks otherwise you know there aren't studies that are saying cis women are in danger of trans women if not the opposite exists because when we're thinking about women's safety which trans women are you need to think about all women's experiences so if you were to remove trans women from women's spaces you're putting them with men who are the same predatory issue that you have do you know i mean is the same predator and so it's like it's first of all it's not safe to put

trans women in that environment um i understand that you know because of the different bodies there's this conversation about should there be like a third space or things like that but unfortunately like in society that doesn't even exist you couldn't really we don't have the we don't have the capacity to be adding bathrooms realistically um so even if we wanted to imagine that in this utopia it wouldn't it wouldn't exist but ultimately it's like there is more shared experience between cis women and trans women and so there needs to be togetherness there you're both women you know different journeys towards womanhood. But I think that this fears ultimately just came from propaganda and trying to create hate and, you know, like I said, the issue is with predatory men and that's where the

focus needs to be. There's lots of these politicians and stuff that they say that they care about women's rights, but what are they actually invested into women's rights? Do I mean? Lots of these politicians that will vote against like trans women and being in spaces have done nothing for women. And so it's quite clear to me when you do the research as well that it's just a development. vision and kind of just just wanting to separate people for no reason. You know, and the emphasis is always on trans women, which is so my more difficult, especially when they are the ones that are, you know, statistically, factually in harm's way versus like trans men, for instance.

Yeah. And so, yeah, I would say that I understand, you know, if you've, if you've read these things and you're worried, but I don't think there's anything to really be concerned about, you know, if anything trans women are scared. There's an incredible book. if anyone listening is into like a fiction book rather. It's a pink, oh, de-transition baby it's called. Yeah, yeah, yeah, big book.

Personally, I really enjoyed it in terms of like I've always been pro trans. I think I've always realized. I think I've always seen through how it's just like immigrants. Blame is placed on immigrants to take away from the real issues that exist. Blame is placed on trans people to take away from the real issues that exist. I think I've always seen that. but I don't think I've really truly understood the unique struggles that trans people experience

in a reading that book really like opened my eyes and to how trans people are so much more at risk of suicide, trans people are so much more at risk of violence. And there's awful, you know, we have a violence against women issue. We have a, they call it something, the femicide. We have an issue of women being killed by men. There's no two ways about it.

We do have that issue. But when you look at the stats of how much more likely a trans woman is or a trans person is to experience violence in comparison to a woman, it's like we need to protect women, but we also need to be protecting trans people as well. The numbers are scary. The numbers are terrifying. I wish I had them right now.

but I remember reading this report, I think it was a Stonewall report. And the life expectancy of a trans person... Black women is 35. For trans black women? Yeah, 35. What? Oh my God.

Yeah. Scary that. How old are you? You don't want me asking? 27. Okay. So I think your life could be over in a couple of years. Like, how can you...

This is what... How have we been led to believe that these people and don't have their own needs that we should be as a society? I want to provide women with a space that they can be happier and healthier. That's the whole point of the podcast, being happier, healthier, you know. And how do we not also wonder, why do we think that trans people are less deserving of a happier, healthier environment? I don't know. I think it's really strange. and it's mostly just due to the media.

Like I said, when I was younger, my experience was completely different. But even now, one of my favorite, I guess, like, party tricks, right? Okay, basically, long story short, you know, let's say I'm in a bar or something. This happens often. People don't know that I'm trans, right? Yeah.

And they'll get into a conversation about trans people. And I won't mention that I'm trans. So when people are having conversations with me, they're having it not acknowledging that I'm a trans person, right? So they're being honest, you know, and a lot of the conversation will be, like, like, why are trans women in sports? And I'll be like, okay, let's talk about it.

Yeah. What's your issue? Yeah. And they'll go, oh, like, isn't there benefits? And I say, okay, talk to me about the benefits. Talk to me about the science. Like, do you know about the science? And it will just be one line that they've seen on social media or something.

Like no actual like sight, like cited source, just a few lines that they've heard and just believed. And it's like, it's never gone unchallenged. It's never gone, sorry, it's never gone challenged. And therefore they just believe it. And so I'll say to them, you know, have you done any more research into these things? Like have you looked at the science that suggests that actually like everything that you're saying is not true scientifically?

And I'll go, no. And I'll be like, well, how do you know about this stuff about because I am trans? And I think then of, yeah, literally the ball drops. And they just think, oh my God, I'm so embarrassed because you probably wouldn't have that conversation with me knowing that I'm trans. But I end up having great conversations in that way with people. And I think that a lot of people just need to have a conversation with a trans person

realistically because I think there's so much online that makes us seem like we're just this alien species you know with bad intentions for people and it's like no we are really just trying to live our lives have regular jobs being loving relationships I mean walk to dog yeah you know and so I think a lot of it will you know in terms of allyship as well and just you know if you don't have access to trans people in your day to day life you have access to people like me online which I mean and can take some time to consume that content and just, I think a lot of it's just normalising our existence. So much of me wanting to be online is based in just seeing that I'm a regular dude as well and that, you know, have this, we're the same in that capacity.

Yeah. So I think that's a really important part of my work or any trans person who decides to shut up online. But it's difficult given the kind of political environment that we're in. So I salute any trans person that is still existing online today in a public way. Yeah. You recently donated your eggs to your sister. I do. Can you tell me a little bit about that journey and actually the, I don't know, the decision process behind it because I think as that must have been also difficult and challenging for your identity. Yeah. Yeah. It was the easiest decision I've ever made.

More. Yeah, weirdly enough. I know how hard it was, but it was the easiest. decision that I've ever made by far. My sister Kizzy had been struggling to get pregnant for a while. It'd been around four years. And during that time, she ended up having two miscarriages, one in which she had to give birth. And that was extremely traumatising. And me and my sister would have regular conversations and be on the phone. I'd be like, how is team getting pregnant going? How are you feeling today? And, you know, it started with this, you know, it started with this, uplifting conversations and it was slowly kind of going downhill and um i remember her saying i think i need to

to look into different fertility options and i said i think i think there's no harm in doing that you know if if if you're ready you know because i also respect that she has to come that's her journey do i mean but she she wanted a baby so bad like so bad i haven't seen her want anything this much for for a long time if not her entire life and so yeah she was having conversations to figure about, you know, does she use a donut egg or does she adopt? Adoption is extremely difficult. And so the option came down to like a donut egg. And I remember I was talking about him, you know, I said to her,

we were just casually, essentially on the phone discussing it. And I said, you can have my eggs if you want them. And it wasn't even something that I had intentionally said or had given any thought. I didn't even know if I had eggs available at this point in time. I just thought I want to help my big sister, you know. And we had that conversation and we didn't talk about it. We had no conversation about it for the next couple of weeks. And then she calls my phone one day.

Bear in mind in the background, I'm doing research. And I'm saying, is this even possible, you know? Funny enough, she went away and also did research. And then we came on the phone and she said, were you serious about giving me your eggs? And I said, well, yeah, if you want them. And if they're there, then absolutely. And so we said, right, first things first.

let's go talk to a doctor and let's find out how possible this whole thing is going to be. And I went and apparently I'm a baby making machine. I have good fertility. So that was fantastic news. And then it was just right, are we really going to do this? And one of the things that I really loved about the process I thought was really important is you have to go through a process called, I think it's implications counseling where you discuss kind of all of the things imaginable about donate in your eggs to somebody else.

For instance, like, let's say I've donated my eggs and then I want a child and I can't have a child. How does that make me feel? Am I going to regret this choice? Or if me and Kizzy suddenly stop talking, you know, am I going to regret that choice? So it's just about you understanding the weight of your decision and that you have no parental responsibility or say in this child's life, essentially, which I think is really important to kind of like just make sure in the right psychological headspace to do this. And, yeah, I was happy with everything. and Kizzy was happy. We very think you do this final session together

where you say, right, yes, we've covered everything, you know. The one condition for me was that she had to tell her baby whenever the time was right just because I can't keep a secret. You're so real for that. Yeah, I was like, you know what? Like, we'll have an argument or something or it will just come up.

So I was like, do you know what? Yeah, no, I can't keep secrets. Sorry, both. So I said, do you know what? Because you have to tell the baby at some point because I don't want to have an argument or something happens and I tell the baby. So you have to tell to be.

Would you slip up, man? Yeah, do you know what it happens? So that was my one requirement, which Kizzy, that was already Kizzy's set of mind. That's what she wanted to do anyway. She thought that was really important. And so, yeah, started the process. And you know what's like lots of medication, lots of injections, lots of doctors' appointments. But it was about 14 days of injections, doctors' appointments,

internal scans, blood tests. And funny enough, for the process, I found out that I had PCOS, which is really interesting. And yeah, got to the end of the process and we successfully retrieved 19 eggs. And so it was an incredible number. And then obviously, as you start to, you know, mix the egg with the sperm and create embryos,

the numbers drop. So we went from 19 eggs. And then I think it was 13 throws successfully. And then by the time they became embryos, rose there were six left which was a massive chance at that point i was convinced that kizzy was going to have a baby because statistically speaking it was like a 50 50 percent chance at that point that it would take and so i was like kiss is going to be a mom like it was getting excited and then obviously yeah it transferred to kiz's journey and she went down the ivy fruit as well to support that

and yeah she is it's it's going it's going really well good i feel like we need a little bit of heartwarming being an activist just full stop, how do you manage just in terms of, there must be a lot of heaviness, you know? Yeah. Do you know what it's funny because my actual day-to-day life is full of so much joy.

So it is hard to be online and that was one of the main reasons actually why I wanted to document the process of Harvestimics because I felt it was important to have some good stories and some uplifting stories about trans people. And it was, again, a little bit healing for me because, you know, my younger years, I felt distant from my body

and wanted to create more distance because I didn't necessarily like the body parts that I had. And this was me actually being grateful about it and being able to give my sister this incredible gift. And yeah, so showing up online is is incredibly difficult. Feel like I saw on your socials. It was your first time getting a period in a long time, question mark. Yeah. How was that, like emotionally? It was really difficult. I have done a lot of work, been in therapy for many, many, many years. Yeah.

And I felt as though I would be able to manage whatever came from this journey. And I still did manage having the period. But yeah, it felt quite shocking to go back to that place. I think it was, I was really scared about being dragged emotionally back to how I felt when I was experiencing periods when I was younger. This felt, I guess the way that I can describe it, it felt like being in my old bedroom, but as today's age.

Yeah. So it was like I was aware of how I felt and the surroundings, but it didn't really like hit me. Yeah. I think the part that I struggled with was I was in the gym when I came on my period. And they warn you that it's a part of the process. Yeah.

So I'm sat in the gym. I'm in grey joggers, like the worst. as colour to be it. Do you know what I mean? And so my first fear was right. If I'm having a period right now, it's going to show because I'm not wearing all of the right things for this. You're not wearing lost fame.

Linking description. Thank you very much. Do I mean? I'm not wearing my period underwear. So this isn't going to really work out. And also just the pain that it comes with a period is obviously uncomfortable. And yeah, I had a bit of a panic, if I'm honest. I just sat there and just felt I just felt very like heart.

broken, was probably the word, that, you know, all of these years that I'd kind of forgotten about the pain and I'd moved on and I'm now being dragged back in this place and I have to sit in it and I have no option. I'm just going to have to write it out. And thankfully, got up. No blood. Yeah. Great start. You're so relatable for the fear of, oh no. It's a proper fear, isn't it? Do you know, but the joke is in my head, I'm like, someone is way more likely to think I've cut my bum than they are to think I'm having a period realistically. Do you know what I mean? So I know it's a personal fear that's in my head. Yeah.

So this is the conversation I'm having myself at the gym, sat there being like, Kenny, it's okay. You know, you've done so much work to have a better relationship with your period. You know that this doesn't equal who you are. Yeah. This is just a part of your lived experience and that's okay. So it's very much like talking to myself. And then I got home and the pain continued.

And I don't know. I just, I moved to a space of wanting to be to sit in gratitude rather than being upset, which was that I'm grateful that I have all these functionalities because I wouldn't be able to donate my eggs to my sister if I didn't. So actually, I'm just going to be grateful. If I don't like this, I would rather not have it. But if this means that I get to donate my ex to my sister

and she has a child and I get a new Nephlin, a new nibbling or nephew niece, whatever, I'm happy. Yeah. So I think it was just in those moments where you feel dysphoria, you know, you have an option to. to move into gratitude or to move into just having a better mindset. And that doesn't always mean like having some toxic positivity because I also don't really believe in that.

But even a neutral perspective, you know, and just being like, this is just what it is and that's okay. And, you know, ultimately what the period lasted four days, this kid's going to last a lifetime, you know? So, yeah, it was difficult, but we move. Your existence as a unique human being meant that there is another existence that is possible, you know, regardless of what society defines is this or that your existence created like another existence. I think that's like beautiful. Do you know what as well? One of the most

wonderful comments that I got on, I think it was on TikTok or Instagram, I'm not sure, but this person turned around and said your body was exactly the way it was meant to be because this is what you was meant to do for your sister. And I don't know, that just really, it just really hit me because I was, I just thought you're so right. There's so many times throughout my life. where I've hated my body, honestly, hated my body, wished I had a different body. And in this moment, I felt nothing but gratitude for having this body. And so that was a real shift for me personally. So as much as this was for my sister, I've learned so much about myself, you know,

and it's been an incredible journey. And I've decided I want to do another round for strangers, but I just want to take a moment and debrief from the first time. Oh my God. Probably, if anyone's gone through egg freezing, just in general, that is one of the most selfless things I think you can do, especially given the complexities, the added complexities of your situation in comparison to mine because I remember freezing my eggs and thinking,

the people who do this for other people, put yourself through a month of, like, egg freezing takes over your life because you're injecting yourself multiple times a day, you're tired, you're going to, you know, appointments. You're getting an ultrasound three times a week at a point. It's your schedule is taken up. It's a full-time job. And I was thinking, because I think you don't get that much for like donation, you know.

And I was thinking, God, that doesn't even cover you travel to the ultrasound to get your ultrasounds, you know. So I was thinking, God, people are the most, they are selfless. It's not like gizzing in a cup. for five minutes, you know, it's not. It's just not. No, it's complicated. So, like, I honestly hold my hands up to you. Like, that is such a gorgeous, gorgeous, gorgeous thing.

Yeah, I'm just, I'm one of those people. I'm just under the strong belief that if you have something and somebody else really wants it and you don't really want it, you should give it to the other person. And I know that that's a really, like, easy sentence to say. when it's such a big thing but that's just generally like my philosophy i've yeah like i said i've decided that i want to do another round but after that you'll probably be aware of this there's um womb transplants taking place right now and they're you know becoming successful and i would like to donate mine

at some point because i don't i don't really want it i don't i have no ambition to carry a child and if i were to have a child it would be somebody else carrying that child and so i just think how like you know there's women out there with conditions that you know have don't have wombs and I have this womb that I don't really want and they would do anything for that they want that experience for some women it's very much a part of their womanhood and they want to feel connected to that body

in that way and I have that missing piece for them so why would I not give it to them? That's like just so unbelievably beautiful and I'm very honestly hold my hands up for you but I think also it speaks to the importance of diversity in humanhood you know like the way that you are able to do that because you don't want it, you know?

Like if you hadn't been trans, you might want that. Yeah, very true. Oh, you wouldn't want to get rid of it, you know? It's like we are so, so, so strong. We are so much stronger when we're different. Yeah. And yeah, that's maybe one of the things I struggle with most when it comes to the whole. The way it's called the trans debate is if people's like existence,

is up for debate, but whatever. That's what kind of pisses me off a little bit. Like we're so much stronger in diversity of what our bodies are and diversity of what our experiences, but whatever. Also, we just learn from one another. And that's beautiful in of itself. And we contribute in different ways. I mean, like, when I used to write about periods a lot,

there used to be a few comments from women that would say you feel like you're taking away space from women. I would say no, because I feel like women experience periods and trans men experience periods and they're very different experiences and there should be space for both. Why do we have to choose? Yeah. You know, it's like I used to use the analogy of adding more colours to the rainbow. There's nothing wrong with that, you know. It's beautiful. And so yeah, I think it's just about having empathy for other people, allowing people to have different experiences and thinking that they're all equally beautiful in their own right. I think it's a really important part of just being an overall good,

decent human being. We've got a section called Real or Not Real. I'm going to show you a piece of social media content, and I would just like your opinions. After 19 years, they're back. Frankie Munis, Brian Cranston, and the rest of the family reunite in Malcolm in the middle, life's still unfair. After 10 years avoiding them, how and lowest demand Malcolm be at their anniversary party, pulling him straight back into their chaos. Malcolm in the middle, life's still unfair. A special four-part event, streaming April 10th on Hulu on Disney Plus. There are so many detransitions now because the transgender identity

is a product of social contagion. It's a trend and a very dangerous one at that. That's where you're going to see a whole lot of graphs like this. This is 18 to 22 year old to identify as transgender or non-binary. You're going to see an uptick up to 22 and then it's downhill from there. Here's another graph showing students that don't identify as male or female around 2020. This becomes super popular. Uptick all the way through 2022 to 2023 where you see a massive downtrend. If you're seeing a ton of your trans friends detransition right now, it's because they were manipulated by a super dangerous social trend that could have left many of them with irreversible damage and has left many of them with irreversible damage. I truly think we're going to look back on this time in human history with a whole different set of eyes and a whole bunch of regret for what people were put through in the name of the

transgender movement. For those that disagree with the statements made in this video, I truly hope you look into the stories of detransitioners and hear about the experimental surgeries and medical treatments that they've undergone, the irreversible damage that they have because it is overwhelming. And if it's not a product of social contagion, how do you explain the graphs? Okay, wow, where do we start? I think it's scary. how many likes that video has is really concerning for me. But let's address what she, her concerns. So, you know, the claim is that many people are detransitioning.

Okay, so currently, like, the rate of detransitioners. First of all, one percent of population trans people. And the detransition rate is about the same percentage. So there's 1% of the 1%. And also, when we're talking about detransition, what people are selectively choosing about the data is about regretting transitioning versus not regretting it because there are, you know, there are people that do transition,

but there's a difference to say that you went through that experience and you discovered that's not who you are and then you came out the other hand, but you don't regret that process and actually, like, it allowed you to learn more about yourself and that you feel more confident in who you are now because of that process. So, and I have to say that, you know,

that's a very different experience to regretting transitioning. In terms of, you know, this claim of all of these, like, I don't know. What was the word she used about the surgeries? Experimental. Experimental surgeries. I don't understand how it classifies as experimental, you know. Specifically, like, top surgery is not really experimental. Women have their breast removed for surgery, not for surgery, sorry, for reasons like cancer. So I don't understand what's experimental.

Maybe she's referring more to like bottom surgery. Okay, fine. But the other thing as well is about, you know, when we're talking about a big conversation right now at terms of gender affirming treatment could be like hormone blockers you know that's a big conversation right now um which is unfortunately right now been blocked um and trans youth no longer have access i was somebody who took hormone blockers and so i understand the importance of that um i ended up taking that medication after having attempt of taking my own life because i really had enough of being here in a version of me that just wasn't who i am you know

And so what that kind of medication does is just, it's a pause button. It's giving you time to discover who you are. And I think that's important. You know, I think that's a great tool. It's not gender affirming treatment, so to speak, like estrogen or testosterone. And so I think, yeah, young people should be allowed to have the time, especially if that means that they're going to be a happier child like I was. Do you know what I mean?

And then if they get older, then they decide that they want to, then they can. but I think a lot of my issue with a lot of these kind of reels or discussions online about detransitioning is the data is very warped to benefit people and doesn't really consider the nuances about the rates in which they're discussing you know if I could sit here right now I'd come back with like a study and be like this is what you know what I mean but top of my head it's harder but I think it's a lot of the data is skewed to to serve a certain argument

which isn't pro-trans and you know if you are somebody that feels that way and or you're not sure go go and do your own research you know it's available to you so yeah it's just it's a bit sad that people feel feel that way but um yeah you took hormone blockers it gave you when you were at a point where you didn't want to be here because it was it was so challenging and you you took hormone blockers to give you that time because we do know that you know kids like I mean we'll come on to the whole what would you say to people

who maybe say oh they're just a tomboy like we we know that kids need a bit of time to find themselves it probably it is a good idea to give them that pause as you said but you were able to reverse your pause

enough to donate your eggs to your sister how many like years later you know 10 years so when we're talking about how testosterone is damaging my body well it has it has it Yeah, like you were able to go back on, go back on your decision. Yeah, I have full fertility, essentially.

So when we're talking about damaging or making irreversible life choices, as of right now, there isn't. My understanding of hormone blockers is there's more irreversibility if a child goes through puberty. Yes, yes. You don't give them that, that pause, that breathing space. Do you know what, this is a good conversation point actually. Yeah. One thing I want to bring up here. is that actually I think that because of the ways,

for instance, right now, it's specifically in trans women participating in sports, a lot of the conversation is about saying that they can't go for a certain level of puberty if they're going to compete. But if you don't give them access to the blockers, then they don't even have the option to begin with. And so they're set up to fail. But also, I just think like,

when we think about, you'll notice you're a doctor. You know, when we think about medical, and we're thinking about how we protect people. I see personally, not everyone has to agree, but this is a preventative tool. Do I mean, if it's going to stop me from being suicidal in the same way that, you know, doctors issue, um, antidepressants for somebody who's experiencing, like,

a real hard, sad time. Like, what's the issue? Like, and there's, this studies, you know, they're being real, you know, in terms of the, I'm not, I don't want to dismiss that people might take blockers and then have psychological issues that they took the blockers. That might be well, and truly possible, right? But in terms of the physical body,

the body just resumes to continue on with its puberty. And it's like, if pausing my puberty or a young person's puberty for two years gives them the time to figure out who they are, then I think that's great versus forcing them to evolve in ways that they don't want to have further discomfort and then maybe land themselves in a worse place, like which one's best?

I'm always just thinking about what is, if we're in a bad situation, what's the best option? Do you know what I mean? And that's a decision doctors have to make with every single medication you prescribe. Every medication has side effects. Every medication has risks. And as a doctor, you make a decision, what other risk benefit analysis?

And that would be different for everyone. But taking that option away completely just doesn't... Kids able to access it privately. Actually, I don't know this. To my understanding, no. But the joke is, cis children are allowed to still access it. So it's obviously not dangerous as a medicine. otherwise you wouldn't be prescribing it

but because trans people are using it as a way to essentially be a gender affirm in care or just like a pause button now it's become dangerous but I don't know if you know the history behind why PBA of Bookers exist go on

so it was basically there were young kids having PBE as younger as like four or five yeah yes yes yeah that would have in PBE and so the whole reason it was created was to pick the pause button because they were going for a PBE that was obviously too early for their would describe this too early for their years. And so it's like, it's worked for a long time, you know.

And so I don't see the issue with it. I just think it's people are unfortunately wanting to essentially allow us to suffer. There are cases of like babies being born and then getting their period as babies. And, you know, that's an incredible medication to stop like a five-year-old. How are you sending a five-year-old to school being like, here's your parents? for the day, you know? Like that's such an incredible medication. And you're right, it is,

it just just seem punitive. Picking and choosing who has access. That's all this is. And you're saying that one group of people deserve it and you're saying that the other group of people don't. Realistically, that's what's happening here. And kids. Yeah.

What would you say to someone whose argument is, oh, well, maybe they just say you have a boy who's just maybe a little bit more like feminine or like a young boy who's maybe a little bit more feminine or a young girl who's maybe a little bit more like a tomboy. what would you say to someone saying, well, increase an awareness of trans people? Maybe they're just a tomboy. I think from the outside looking in, when I was younger, you'd probably just think I was a tomboy, you know?

I was very much always climbing trees, hanging out with the boys, kicking a football. That was my life. And I think many people probably felt the same way about me growing up. And I think that, you know, as a parent, it's really hard to know what your child is saying for definite. do I mean and how true it isn't is it going to change ultimately they are children you know they need time to discover who they are but this is where things like therapy become really important and as a parent knowing what questions to ask your child and you know having a good relationship in which your child feels like they can openly communicate those things with you and then you can make decisions

together because at the end of the day it's their life yeah it needs to be their choices obviously there's an age where that becomes relevant I'm not going to go into that but it should be a process that's discussed between the person who's looking after the child and the child themselves, and then they use therapeutic services to help kind of like dive in deeper. So when I was younger and my mom was an absolute ally, like literally when I came out to her, she said, are you a lesbian? And I said, we're close, but no cigar. And I said, no, like, I'm a boy.

And she said, okay, right, well, let's go to the doctor, you know. And that's how our conversation started. and my mum always just said to me, I just, I want you to be honest with me about how you're feeling. You know, even if one day you wake up and you say, actually, I don't really feel like that anymore. But that's also okay.

And so she gave me the space to say, if that's not who you are anymore, then that's fine. But also if this art, you feel like you're going more down this route, then you could also explore that. And I think that that conversation and having, yeah, having that trust and that relationship is important. And at the end of the day, it's going to be their life. And they have to make those decisions.

As a parent, it's your life. Do you know what I mean? And you would have made choices as you were younger. And you just kind of figure it out. But I think therapy also for me was a really good validation process because I realized as I went through that process even more, that I am definitely trans. So it was actually really nice because I'd come home and be like, mom, no, yeah, I want to be a girl. It ain't for me, you know.

So it became. now. Yeah, I said nah, I'm signing out all this period business, makeup, skirts, dresses. Nah. Nah. Do I mean? So actually it was really helpful for me because I became more, I was already very sure of myself, but therapy helped me to have the words to articulate that I was so sure of who I was. And so yeah, you know, there's no perfect answer with these scenarios. It's just about, you know, just doing as much research as you can, having an open relationship and just figuring it out together. for. Nice.

That's brilliant. And I think on the detransitioning conversation as well, I would again recommend that book, detransition. Do you like that book? Do you think it's good book? Yeah. Yeah. Because there's a person in it who they detransition.

And it's actually because the hate, the challenges that being transposes, like the abuse. That's why most people transition, de transition. It's not because it's not because it's not who they feel they are. It's because of the outside pressure. It's mostly due to religion. or not being accepted by family and friends or just like colleagues and work environment a lot of it is based behind that

so much if it is a small majority of people going actually this is not who I feel like I am it takes a lot of courage do you know it's funny as well because it's difficult when I see this but I see this every once in a while where someone will detransitioned that I've known and it will be this conversation around

God has helped me come to this perspective and not so much around I felt like I made the wrong choice or it's not who I am. And I would, listen, I have nothing against religion. But I think when that conversation of God's being in place and they're not actually saying how they feel as a person first and saying that they don't feel like they've made the right choice or it's not who they are, then I've become concerned about the reasons to why they de-transitioned because to me there isn't any clarity about how you actually feel. And it just seems like these, these outsider conversations that are affecting how you feel.

And I know that's a really tricky conversation. I don't want to go too much into that because I don't, I don't want to, yeah, step on any toes. But I just think, yeah, a lot of detransitioning is not based on how people actually feel. And that's really sad because all that means then is that these people are detransitioning, feeling the same way that they did. And no longer having the gender affirming treatment or, you know, using the right pronouns or whatever else to live their life in. Yeah. So they've just gone back to the same place that they just escaped from. Yeah.

And probably feel even worse because they might have some shame around detransitioning. Yeah. You know, so it's, I can't imagine how difficult that must be for people who do. I haven't checked the validity of those graphs on that real. So I have no idea where those graphs came from or whatever. But like I would say probably the last five years have been a bit of a very shit for trans people. Yeah. And like the graph was like from 2020.

You know, it does make you wonder how many, how many, you know, how many people were like, I'm getting a lot of heat there's a lot of social stigma maybe I'm better off going back to that place where I didn't feel comfortable in my own body but I wasn't getting hate and stigma all the time and you know I think

I think about how Haley from Corey was trans 20 years ago and didn't no one well not no one black battered an eyelid but it was accepted and that's you know it's that's not the same environment we're in so no wonder more people

are T-transitioning it's awful You have to have really thick skin. Yeah. To be able to continue to be in as well as a trans person at the moment. Because at every corner, you are told that you don't deserve to be loved. You don't deserve to be in any spaces. There's actually no home for you, you know. And so it's why, under that pressure, why would you not want to go back to a life that's simpler?

And so the argument then becomes in your head is like, do I continue to fight against the world to express who I am? or do I surrender and kind of keep that feeling inside myself and have an easier life. So you're making a trade-off either way. And also just go back to what you're saying about the graphs. I think one of the important things to bring up is, you know, when we're talking about detransitioning, what are you classifying as detransitioning?

Are you classifying that one person had their pronouns, he, him, and then went back to she-her? What is the definition of detransitioning? Because that's very a loose term. So I think also, if we're going to have a proper conversation, I need to know the terms and conditions that we're set to say this is what we're classifying as detransitioning because again, that's how you would warp a conversation

in your favour around data. Yeah. Well, you've probably seen that as well in women's health around how things are, you know, the PR, the spins. Yeah, yeah, there's lies, lies and stats, you know. You can, if you've got a stat, you can manipulate it however you want, you know. Also need to see who's doing the studies. Yeah.

And who benefits from making those studies? Yeah. Do you know, are those studies from anti-trans groups? Do you know what I mean? Because that's a lot or is it a neutral group? Because that's probably more reliable data. Like those are the questions you need to be asking when you're seeing these things. So yeah, cool.

It's a fact, quote unquote. But like, is it actually? Yeah. So I think, yeah, if you're believing these things, you need to do a little bit more research into who's investing in these projects, who's it's coming from, you know, what page does it sit on? Are they pro trans? Are they not?

Are they, you know, are they trying to say that they're trying to quote? unquote protect single-sex spaces or is there a different agenda behind what they're saying? And the more you poke, the more you realise that things probably aren't as simple as they seem. Yeah. Kenny, it's been an absolute pleasure. I'm going to ask you the question that I ask all the guests at the end of the podcast. But with a slight adaption, so Kenny, what do you wish anyone knew by the time they were 25? By the time they were 25?

Yeah, pre-pre-frontal call sex development. Big one, big one. Life gets better as you get older. Nice. Yeah. I think so much of my childhood was spent not knowing if I was, A, going to become an adult, and B, was I going to enjoy being an adult? And I've just gotten more confident, more comfortable, made greater friends, have a career

that I love, get to do cool shit like this. And so, yeah, life gets greater as you get older. So bear that in mind. Things are, 20s are really rough. Puberty is. a really rough point as well so yeah just it gets better i'm sure myself and many people who are listening this today are very very very happy that you made it to being an adult because you have a wonderful wonderful wonderful message and you know amongst so much hate and division it's such a

wholesome well-needed voice um so thank you so so much for giving up your time it's been an absolute pleasure i've loved every minute of it thank you for having me