Her Discussions by Dr Faye - Public School vs State School | The Class Divide Nobody Wants to Talk About

Episode Date: May 11, 2026

In today's episode, we're joined by Sophie Pender, founder of the 93% Club and Forbes 30 Under 30, who built the UK's biggest network for state educated people after realising that class in the workplace was the one thing nobody was talking about honestly.We talk about what classism really looks like in 2026, private vs public school experiences, and how your background can shape your life in ways other people often don’t even realise.Sophie also shares what it was actually like growing up on one of the biggest council estates in North London and then walking into one of the UK’s top universities, and why nothing really prepares you for that gap.What you’ll learn:🚌 How private vs public schools still shape your opportunities in the UK📚 Why only 7% of the UK is privately educated, but they dominate top careers📈 #1 reason why classism is at an all time high in the UK🏢 Dealing with judgement at work and university🏠 How your home & childhood life shapes what you think is ‘normal’Resources & links mentioned:Sophie Pender’s Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/sophieapender/The 93% Club - https://www.93percent.club/🔔 Join the HERd* broadcast channel here: https://www.instagram.com/channel/AbY4liwxlLnewx4H/?igsh=MWhuaXFweGtucTB3cA==📱 Find us on socials:Instagram & Tiktok - @drfayebatePodcast Instagram & Tiktok: @herdiscussionspod📩 Want to reach out?Email: [e-mail]🛑 Disclaimers:Opinions are my own. This content is for educational / entertainment purposes and not medical or financial advice.Links to subscribe / follow:Apple Podcasts: ⁠https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/her-discussions-by-dr-faye/id1835829612⁠Spotify: ⁠https://open.spotify.com/show/5viLYizHD4Zy6J42iqtPRo⁠Can I ask you a BIG favour? 💙Please leave a review or rating. It helps us grow the podcast and bring you more amazing guests.Share with someone who needs this; it might help them live a happier, healthier life.Follow us on social media or join the broadcast channel to send us your questions for our guests. I'll leave the link here: ⁠https://www.instagram.com/channel/AbY4liwxlLnewx4H/?igsh=MWhuaXFweGtucTB3cA==⁠ ⁠https://www.instagram.com/channel/AbY4liwxlLnewx4H/?igsh=MWhuaXFweGtucTB3cA==⁠🛑 Disclaimers:Opinions are my own. This content is for educational / entertainment purposes and not medical or financial advice.

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Wayfair, every style, every home. I think money in working class communities is not a thing. Working class people are the most generous people you will ever find. Sophie Pender went from being called a chav at university to founding the largest network for state educated people. be who you are and the world will bend to you. Like, I'd love to be myself if I had a trust fund. We talk about social mobility as this really positive thing, right?

But actually what we're talking about is not social mobility. We're talking about economic mobility. 36% of my year left with GCSEs. At that point, it felt like nothing I could do would ever be good enough, no matter what I did. I never had a complex about how I spoke, about how I presented myself until that second month in at uni. I cotton on pretty early on in life.

I was going to have to basically be like totally self-sufficient. If you've ever felt like you don't belong in a room and want to build something that changes everything, this one's for you. But first, please don't forget to subscribe or leave a five-star review. It really helps us keep bringing new guests that help you live a happier, healthier life. Thank you.

Hi, I'm Sophie Pender and you're listening to Her Discussions podcast. Sophie, before we get into social mobility and everything that you have built, we need to start at the beginning. So please can you paint a picture of what life was like for you 10 years ago? Well, 10 years ago I actually founded the 93% Club. Two days ago was 10 years of 93% club. So 10 years ago, I was incredibly depressed, incredibly anxious going through, I think,

what was the hardest transition of my life, which is saying something when you think about my childhood. And I really reached rock bottom at the University of Bristol because 40% of you. of the student population went to private school and 60% of the population went to state school. Bristol's a really interesting place because it's an incredible liberal university. So they're the front line of social issues and have always been historically.

And so as a woman, I actually felt really well supported at Bristol. They were like, anything you need. You let us know, we're here for you. And then I was like, I have three part-time jobs and they keep calling me a chav. Maybe you could solve that. And they were like, oh, oh, no, no.

I'm not talking about class. And I'd gone to the university and said, can we please, you know, this discourse is nonstop. There was the chance at university, like your dad works for my dad, like chav socials. It was just, it was so rife the class divide on campus. Your dad works for my dad as a chant. So you have like the University of Bristol, which is Russell Group. Then you have the University of West England, which, U.E, which is a polytechnic. And basically, Russell groups would chant at the other universities being like, your dad works for my school. And my dad. I would be going to, you know, these events at the university where the class of slurs were just like totally normalised. And I'd gone to the university and said, you need to do something about this. It's really causing a huge amount of tension. And they were like, nah, don't think we will. And so, yeah, so I sat down and I founded the 93% club. Oh my gosh. Yeah, my life's have been the same. My worst experience was in my first year of I was about a month in. We were walking back from a night out. It was November. It was freezing cold. First freezing cold like night, you know, in the year. And we walked past someone who was homeless.

And I turned to the group of people that I was with and I said, God, like, it must be awful. I thought that was a completely benign, normal thing to say when you see someone. You agree, of course. Yeah. On the street. I didn't think that was a controversial thing to say. This girl turns to me and she goes, of course she'd say that you're common as Mark. And I looked at this other boy I was with. I looked at him and I went, what the fuck? Because also I didn't realize that I was, common. I never had a complex about how I spoke about how I presented myself until that second month in at uni. No one said anything. And then I get back and this lad was like, I'm really sorry.

That's really shit. And I was like, that is real. A bit shell-shocked, actually. Yeah. Tell me about the first time you experienced something like that. So I think, like, to talk about the first time, I should probably talk about where I'd come from. Yeah. Because the hardest thing for me was not the classism, it was the fact that at that point it felt like nothing I could do would ever be good enough, no matter what I did. And that was really hard to take. I'm from North London. I grew up on the biggest council state in North London, Graham Park. My mum is the youngest of 14 children, which I thought was normal. I thought that was like a totally normal thing. I'm an only child, actually, so maybe that's not normal. My dad. Sophie, this is the weirdest thing ever in these

how old. My mom's one of 11. No, she's not. I think we'll win, I actually did. I think we could definitely lose be cousins. I'm so crazy. So yeah, so like big family, I thought that was normal. And everyone going through life, right? I think that's a really important thing. Everyone goes through life thinking that their point of reference is normal.

And that's the really interesting thing about state and private schools and why I take such issue with it because it isolates us from how other people live. And so university is the first time that these two worlds. collide and that's why it's so traumatic for people. So my mom was the youngest of 14. My dad came from an Irish family. He had a lot of problems my dad. When he was 15, he was thrown out. He was living in squats. So my dad experienced homelessness many times, usually because of drug use. He was an alcoholic. And yet my childhood was just very turbulent. I had panic alarms in my flat in my council estate because my dad would just like, one day he would just show up and like threatened to break into the house because he was using and that was really destabilizing. So for me, school was, school was the one environment that I could control.

At home, everything felt just totally chaotic. And then in school, actually, it was like, okay, well, if you do this, this and this, you get a good grade. That's good. Like, I've got, I'm in control of this. And I think it really gave me a strong sense of validation. And I contend on pretty early on in life that I was going to have to basically be like totally self-sufficient and independent. And my mum, she gave me so much love and so much support, which I think is a privilege in itself. And she really, really encouraged me in my education.

But, you know, my school, like 36% of my year left with GCSEs. So basically most of my year failed. you can actually watch a documentary about my school on YouTube. Oh my God. Yeah. When I was in year eight, they sent this guy in from the BBC. It's called The Classroom Experiment. And they basically, the opening line of it is the UK's education system is failing.

So we've sent, yeah, and then you've got like all of my like schoolmates just walking in the background of this video. And so they sent this guy in to do all these experiments to like test whether or not you could get a state comprehensive under control. Anyway, obviously it didn't work. And so, yeah, I wise up pretty early that education was. was going to be my way out. And somewhere along the way, and I don't know when it happened, I contend on that becoming a lawyer would make me a lot of money. Someone told me that. And I actually think there's an interesting thing around a lack of careers education for state schoolers, because actually you find that you have such little careers education that you then reach for the professions.

If you're talented, you then reach for the professions that are already obvious. So lawyer, doctor. Exactly. You know, do you know what I mean? You're not doing any rogue profession. You're doing the most obvious thing you can possibly do. When I got to university, I'd become the first of my family to go. I was the first person in my school ever to get 3A stars. Like, ever in your school. Ever in my school. Yeah, I mean, I massively, yeah, I massive.

I bring up all the time because that's when my, like, my academia peaked. And then I got a solid two one throughout university. But yeah, I'd like, I'd gone through a lot to get there. You know, I was working in McDonald's Drive through, working in John Lewis while I was doing that. So when I got to university, I was like, yeah. Like, here are all the trials that you've been putting me through. I am now worthy. I am here. I've earned my space. I am now worthy. And then I remember in my first week of University and Freshers, we had pulled all the chairs out and we were sat around in our

flat. And we were all going around like talking, you know, in that sort of your communal way that you do. And one of the girls, who I won't name, she said that her parents had given her money, like an allow allowance, like huge allowance. She didn't say huge, but we can infer. And she had used that to go on safari. It was so big she'd gone on safari. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. She'd literally just come back from safari. And I was like, wow. And like, so innocently, no hint of envy or anything. I was like, wow, that's amazing. I was like, how much money do your parents give you? And I honestly, it was like the room chilled over. She looked dead at me and she said, did no one ever do. Did no one ever do? teach you any manners.

It's rude to talk about money. And I was like, that was the first time, but that was the middle class. That was it. The penny dropped. Like, it was a, but it was,

you don't talk about that. Yeah, like don't talk about money. And that's the first time that I learned this rule, like a middle class rule, that you don't talk about things like that. In state schools, you would say like, oh my God, you'd have your paws boot suit jacket.

You'd go, oh my God, how much was your Paul's Bucke's Heck? It was also just like, you were always, working part-time jobs, you never really like had that much money. And so it would be like, I want to go to Nando's, but I don't have enough. So my friend will be like, I'll spot you because they get paid every like second Thursday and then you get paid in the month. So I think money in working class communities is not a thing. Working class people are the most generous people you will ever find like rounds at the pub, like would give you their last bit of money. I think that's why I'm so bad with money now because I just, I'm just like, yeah, of course you can not have some. You have a bit of this,

you have a bit of that. But maybe that's why, you know, middle class people retain their money because, you know, I would say they're generous with it. But it's definitely a different culture around money. Yeah. Because when you're all starting from a baseline of like, we don't really have it, it's not a status symbol in the same way. So that was a big penny drop moment for me.

And I thought, oh, we're not in Kansas anymore. No, we're not. And you know what? I think every state schooler, when they arrive at university, they have that moment where you're in like a social circle. And suddenly you're like, we're not. in Kansas anymore. We're not in Kansas anymore.

Split south of France. I just just please do you speak of. And yeah, it's interesting because that first week, like, I could hear myself for the first time. So my accent has, like, massively changed in the last, I mean, yeah, since I'm into uni. And my teacher actually said to me, when she saw me for the first time after a year, she was like, oh, God, you sound very different.

Not in a bad way. She was like, you've refined your accent. And I remember being at uni and being sat in the seminars and the tutelette. and then even in my flat and being like, oh, I'm really jarring myself. Like when I speak, I'm really jarring myself. And so that was, that was an interesting moment as well, feeling a bit othered all of a sudden. Okay, I'm going to tell a story about my brother who also went to Bristol. My brother went to the same secondary school as me.

He comes home after his first term. He opened the door to my best friend. And he goes, hi, Sophie, or whatever. Like, you know, and my friend Sophie, she goes, Kieran, why the fuck are you talking like that? Really? And I go, Sophie, yeah, why is he talking like that? Because he came home after his first time of Bristol, suddenly he was raw. I feel bad for taking the Mick out of him now because actually I understand that that came from a place of insecurity and I really did rinse him for it.

But I'd love to hear your experience as well regarding those early experiences in uni when you realised that you were othered and how that impacted when you entered the professional environment. for me, I think I did more damage to myself than external classes ever could. One of my jobs last year was in orthopedic surgery in a big London hospital. Big London hospital is very middle-aged man, privately educated consultants. Every morning we would have this trauma meeting at 8am. I would present the patients from that night if I'd done a night shift to a room full of maybe 10, privately educated, middle-aged male consultants as a little blonde, state-educated girlie. With an accent.

With an accent, it filled me with dread to the point that my face would go red. When I moved on from that job, my feedback from that job was you look petrified in every meeting. And at the time I was chatting away on social media, like, there was no issues. But you put me in that meeting and I was terrified. Now, was everyone in that room, okay, they might be privately educated. were they all looking at me going, this girl sounds thick because of her accent? Maybe, maybe not.

Who knows? Was that what I was thinking in my head? Absolutely. And was that what did the damage? Absolutely. And yeah, so I think I wanted to know how you, A, found that experience entering your career as a lawyer.

And how the fact do you manage that? Because I still don't understand. Yeah. So I think, the point you make about the damage that you do to yourself being far worse than anyone can do to you is so real because we talk about social mobility as this really positive thing, right? But actually what we're talking about is not social mobility. We're talking about economic mobility.

When we talk about social mobility, it's always about, you know, it's good that people earn more money and they get on and they have these amazing careers. That's economic mobility. But we use social mobility. and that is showing something that is implicit, which is that in moving on and earning more and moving into a different profession, you are leaving your social group behind.

You are leaving behind the people and the community that have raised you, that you spent your formative years with and that when you go back to, like your brother did, you no longer relate to. And that psychologically is so damaging. And when I think about the journey that I've been on,

you know, I don't really recognise my accident anymore. I'm incredibly middle class passing. Like some of the stuff that people say to me about council states or people that, you know, people from working class backgrounds, not realizing where I'm from and that, you know, my dad was a drug dealer and he died when I was 12 because he was an alcoholic.

The things that people say to me about the people who are basically my family and friends is, it's awful. It's almost like, you know, when people say you'd love to know what people say about you behind your back, that's what it feels like being a working class person that moves, I guess, like moves up the social Strata and becomes middle class passing. It's like it's it's really disturbing and I think the worst thing that I ever did was I took it out on my family and I took it out on my friends and

at university I would do anything not to mix my friends from home and my friends from uni. Yeah. My friends from uni would be like, oh, we'll just come and stay at your house. No, you ain't. Like I have lino in the kitchen that's currently got duct tape over it. You're not coming anywhere near that or like for there was a period of time with the toilet seat was broken and it's just like you know hanging off and like no it's like no do you mean like it's just a little bit like ragged and like I don't have a spare room for you to stay like I'm going to sleep on a blow up bed on the floor like all the sofa like I don't have spare rooms I didn't have a dining table growing up like you literally you're in you're on the sofa like it's not a big house it's a small council house and then I

remember and I really I've really you know I'm ashamed of this I think this might be the thing that I'm most ashamed of is the way I would treat my mum. So I remember I was at an event, I say event, I think it was like a party. And someone was going on this long rant about shower curtains and how disgusting they were and how like rants did it was.

That was it. They stayed in a hotel and they'd asked to leave because there was a shower curtain and they were like, that's disgusting, I'm not going in there. And then I remember I went home to my mum that term off after Bristol and we had a shower curtain and I was like

this is disgusting why do we have this this is disgusting why do we not have a dining table why don't you talk to me about politics why are we sat watching Love Island in front of the TV like why are we

doing these things I don't feel like I'm living the life that you could have given me and I really took that out on her not realising that she'd raised me as a single parent she'd given me literally everything she'd gone through so much herself

like she was a survivor of a domestic, use, like she had nothing. And I got to uni and then I came back and I treated her like she was dirt on my shoe. But that's what it does to you. That's what that pressure cooker of being in that environment does to you. And then the funny thing is, is that I think by the end of the uni, because I'd founded the 93% club, I kind of had this like awakening where I was like, this is crazy, why am I behaving like this? And it really brought me back from the edge. But then I got a training contractor, huge international law firm, life-changing money.

Yeah. Like, I thought, oh my God, I'm going to be able to, like, treat my mum at Christmas and, like, buy, you know, presents for my, you know, cousins' children and all these things that were so important to me, like, more money than my combined salaries of my mum and my stepdad. My mom is, my stepdad is a McDonald's lorry driver, which was great because he always brings home free things. But, you know, they didn't have a huge amount of money.

And so when I got that training contract, I was so grateful. I didn't think I was entitled to it. There was not a moment where I took that for granted. And I do think that's a strength. So I think the positive thing about moving into the professional environment was that actually, you're so happy to be there that you're like, like, there's this wonder. Like someone can ask you to do something really rubbish, like go through a box and you're like, wow. Like, this is amazing.

Like, I'm in a big shiny building. Like, doesn't matter. And actually, so it was quite. funny because some of the other people in my cohort, not all of them, but some of them, like, would think that jobs were beneath them. And they were like, I'm not doing that. Yeah. And actually I'd be like, wow. So like, you know, my attitude was great to like really menial tasks. Where it really, where it got quite bad, during law school, I remember I was sat in a criminal law class and I had eyelash extensions on. And I think by the time I'd got out of uni and I'd gone to

law school. Like I still wore like hoops, like knee high boots. Like I just never really thought about like eyelash extensions, fake nails. And a girl on my table like out of nowhere, I'm literally just like minding my own business. She was like, what's that on your face? And I was like, what do you mean? And I was like, is there something in my face? And then she was like on your eyes. And I was like, oh, their eyelash extensions. And she was like, I've never seen that before. And I was like, oh, well, I was like, they're very, I was like, you know, me and my friends get them quite a lot. And she went, well, maybe it's common amongst some social groups, but not the type that go to top law firms. Fuck off.

No, I swear my life. Honestly, swear my life. Like, I swear my life. I, that was like, and then, and then it kind of like spiraled into like a bit of a thing about my appearance. And I was wearing a top at the time that I'm pretty. sure was from New Look and said, I obviously don't speak a word of French. Normal sort of French in my state school.

I learned a bit of Spanish, but they put me on foundation paper, so I got to see. Anyway, so it said, Jadour. And then, like, it went from a comment about my eyelashes to, like, what does that say on your top? Can you even speak French? And it turned into this kind of, I felt like I was being torn apart. And I'm a pretty, like, strong person.

It takes a lot. I mean, this is what I mean. I've gone through so much with, like, my dad. and my childhood that my bar for being upset is actually pretty high. Yeah. I have never felt so small than in that moment. And I remember I got the train home and I just sobbed. I sobbed the whole way home and I was like that was the most painful thing I've ever

gone through. And I think what's particularly hard about classism in a way that I've never felt for gender is that when you're being insulted because of your class, it's more than just you don't have money. It's you're being insulted because of your family. You're being insulted because you don't look a certain way. You don't sound a certain way. And actually, it's really deeply personal.

Because when you're insulting someone's class, you're insulting essentially the circumstances that they were born into and their family. So it goes beyond just the individual. It becomes super personal about everything you've ever cared about and how you've grown up. So that was really difficult. In the professional world,

I would actually say in some instances, it got a lot better than it. did at university. But there were a couple of instances where I would notice that I was getting certain projects that potentially weren't very high profile and other people were getting ones that were really advancing their career. Yeah. And, you know, the people that were doling out the projects, maybe they'd gone to the same school. I remember at my first work Christmas party, it was my first or my second work Christmas party. They did these awards and these, this voting. and there were loads of categories,

like most likely to change the world or like most likely to meet a prime minister or most likely to do like loads, I mean, it was loads of stuff, right? And by this point, I had been put on the Forbes 30 under 30 list for social impact. I had founded the 93% club

and do you know what award I got? What did you get? Most likely to be a Love Island contestant, which like part of me is like, are you saying that I'm hot? Or, you know, if I'm listening to the call, conversations that you guys have been having about reality TV, I'm pretty sure you're being disparaging right now. And I had to walk up and accept that certificate of like most likely to be

to love island contestant, even though I was a fully qualified lawyer, had gone through all that still. It's interesting because the thing about like classism in the workplace is that it is, it's really hard to call out because when you don't have a safety net, you are constantly worried about losing your position and being thrown back into where you were before. And so you just take it on the chin. You have no recourse. And even your family when you go home, my mum would just say don't rock the boat, Sophie. Whatever you do, don't rock the boat.

You've worked so hard to get here. Think about what could happen. And I was constantly like thinking about ending back up in that situation where I wouldn't have enough money to buy something at Tesco. And so you just take it on the chin again and again. again. And, you know, when you look at the data in professional services, working class people take 25% longer to progress despite no evidence of poorer performance. So literally no evidence that you're performing poorer. Do you find amongst your friends from home, you're now like

the least glammed, but then amongst your London friends, you're the most glam. Because whenever I go home or whenever my girls come to London, they are, I've forgotten how to do, like I used to do full face, fake town on a Thursday, like the big glam. And then I got to uni and then it was like, why you, like, why are you putting on so much makeup? Mate, at uni, I was, I looked like the pit, like, bam. That's so funny that you say that. Like, my friends from home are so gorgeous and so glam. Yeah. And like, yeah, would like get dressed at the nines. I went to Bristol. So you knew looked at a sale where you could buy five pound heels. Like, and so I went to Bristol with suitcase full of high heels.

I was like, we're going to hit the club. I was like, here we go. Short dresses. And I was like in at home, we do short dresses and do heels. Yeah, like push up brawl, like fake eyelashes. Like on, I looked, I looked for the time. It was, I think it was like 2014. It was off the time.

Yeah. And yeah, like, I got to Bristol and everyone was like, why are wearing heels? And I was like, oh my God, like I don't know what I'm doing here. I would say there's like different eras, right? Like home friends, super glam. I looked awful at uni. Like after first term.

It was this thing at Bristol. And I think it's quite common at Russell group unis. But maybe it's just edgy. I don't know. But people with money were dressing like they didn't have any. So they'd be like walking into the charity shops, like, you know, buy most stuff. They'd be like, oh, yeah. You know, like they'd be cutting their own hair and like, you know.

And they'd be smoking like roll up. but then they'd have a signet ring on and I'd be like, one minute, if I had your money I'd be like dripping head to toe like there's not a design that you wouldn't see on me and I actually, there's a photo of me in my first day of uni and I've got this luminous pink Ted Baker bag and I loved it.

But then I threw it in the bin because people are like, oh, that's a bit tacky. So yeah, so like that, you know, uni was a weird time for my fashion. Law school was another level, right? Because like if you think about the filter, you get like, working. class of kids and state comprehensive, only a couple of us get out. And then, and then you're thrown

into like this big vat of, you know, private schoolers. But then like, obviously if you then go to the top private schools, your chances of being successful in law or being a doctor or journalist increases tenfold again. Because you're, you know, your parents are probably working there or something. Anyway, so then you like level up. It's almost like a video game. You're like leveling up of poshness every time. So when I got to law school When I got to law school No it is I felt like Donkey Kong or something

I was like Super Mario being like Super Mario taking on all the push kids and being bashed on the head And then I got to law school And then there was a new phenomenon Which was that it wasn't just That we didn't dress up as glam It was that actually like

Spending time getting ready at all Was a bit lame Yeah I used to always say well what are you guys wearing this weekend I just stopped doing that after law school because people were like, oh, I didn't know, to put my cupboard and throw something on. Yeah. Something that my mum wore in the 80s.

I was like, like, what is this? So, yeah, I think fashion was a really big thing as well. Probably my first realisation that who your parents are really matters was my first work experience in a hospital. None of my friends at school had parents who were doctors, you know. You had to apply to the hospital directly. And so I applied to the hospital directly through like a formal application process, got my place. and I arrived in A&E for the afternoon, spend the afternoon.

And I'd gone to Debenhams with my mum the day before to buy a work skirt, like a professional outfit, a work skirt and a shirt. And are you rushing up during a few like that? Yeah, yeah, very, you know, you're not high heels. I had little boots.

Little boots. The girl I was paired with went to the local private school. And I didn't have an understanding of what that meant at that time. But she was wearing Doc Martins. little mini denim skirt and a t-shirt. And, you know, I kind of thought, God, I literally went to Debenoms with my mum last night

to make sure I was dressed like appropriately, you know. And she just looks like she hasn't even tried. And then I'm walking with her, and I'm speaking to her, and she said, oh, both my parents are doctors. I'm operating in an hour. In my Doc Martins. Yeah, yeah.

But then she goes, I actually want to go to art school. They've made me do this. I don't even want to do it. Oh, that's sad. We arrived there, and then there's the consultant, and then his junior, okay? the consultant says to us, first question he asks us,

where do you go to school? And I say, she says the local private school and I said John Brights, which is affectionately known as John Shites amongst locals. The location is it's slap bang in the middle of the two council estates

and it hasn't got a great reputation. So local school. And he goes, okay, cool. So you, not pointing at me, the other girl, you're going to come with me,

Faye, you're going to go with the junior. This poor junior was like completely overworked. Couldn't really spend any time with me. This girl who didn't even want to apply to medical school, she got to go with the consulting. And after, and I kid you not, that was the only question he asked. What my assumption is,

and I'm making big assumptions here is, there is more chance that her parents will be friends with him or in the same social circles, then my parents would be in the same social circles as him. And from that assumption, he went, I'm going to take you, you're going to go with this other person. And I think that really plays into the whole progression thing of being in the same circles,

you scratch my back, I scratch your back. And I was just sat there like, I put tights on and wore boots. Yeah, literally like little H&M skirt. Like, please, please, please. Anyway, I would like to come on to the section called buy or bye bye. Oh, what do we do? By the way, to be clear, I will buy anything. So I'm a consumer.

I was born to buy. It's like metaphorical buy or bye by by. So they're not actually real products. And I'm going to add my own one that I haven't put down. It's a bit of a surprise wildcard. Okay. Came off a conversation that I had literally two days ago. Okay, nice.

Oxbridge. Buy or bye bye. I'm just laughing at the being oxbridge being big. I think that's the most state school thing ever. Oxbridge. Buy or bye bye. Do you know what? I'm going to say bye.

Yeah. Reason being is that when people think about social mobility, they tend to swing one way or the other. They think about silver bullets and solutions, right? They're like, well, the key to solving social mobility is that we won't hire anyone from Oxford anymore. And my point is, no, there are working class kids at Oxford. They're in the 93% club.

Go and hire those ones because they got there and they worked their ass off. Although I will say, I got an interview at Oxford for English. I think there was like 11 of us there for nine spaces. And they asked me what books I'd read. And I said Harry Potter and then I never saw them again. And I got my feedback, which was four out of ten. So for my interview, obviously no one had never interviewed for Oxford before.

You had to sit an exam to get an interview. So by that point, they knew I was, so my predicted grades were like high. I had to sit an exam to actually get an interview. And then I had to submit my own written work to get an interview. So the interview was the final, final stage. That is. So I was spite. Bye, Oxford.

No, I'm joking. That is classist in a way that is a little bit not overtly classist. Harry Potter is the most successful book for a lot of kids. You know, you're not going to have an original copy of Withering Heights sat on your 4,000-year-old library. There was a guy there who had a copy of Chaucer. Do you know what Chaucer? I know.

So Chaucer is like this old English book, like it's based in a middle English, old English language that you don't read until you were in like second or third year of uni. And he had it under his arm. And I was at the interview because you actually meet the other candidates that you interview with. So like you actually meet them. And so at that point, I know I was cooked, to be honest. I was a private school final boss. So, yeah, I'm pro Oxbridge in that, like, I feel like there are working class kids at

Oxfordbridge and like identify them, find them, hire them, as well as everyone else. Obviously, Oxford Bridge, not be on end at all. But, yeah, I think that there's a lot to be desired in terms of the culture there. And there was a policy, I mean, there was this thing recently about one of the colleges introducing a policy to try and get more private schoolers in. I saw that. And I was just like, God, you guys are so lame. like. Well, there was a comment that I left on one of yours Instagram posts, which was one of my

experiences at medical school was being, you know, private school passing. Like, well, clearly they hadn't spot the intruder that I was. Yeah. In this circle, it was like nine people, eight of which were privately educated and they, me being the nine. And to be clear, and they were all talking about how much harder it was for them to get into medical school because they were privately educated, because of like affirmative action and whatever. And I was sat there and I was like, If you've had an education, which is £50,000 a year, I hope you get into Oxbridge. I hope they make you the head of Oxford.

You know what I mean? If you can't get in to a university like that, with that amount of education, I'm like, well... That was money wasted. Yeah, like, well, also that's just not true as well. But also, like, can we count? Let's count. Let's use our basic numeracy.

There are eight of us sat around this table. And multiple others in the year, it's clearly not that much harder, you know? And actually, when we're finished by or by-bye, I'm going to need you to explain the, the naming of the 93% club because we completely glossed over that part and I think that's so so so important

okay so oxbridge is not sure about them we had nuance and I'm a big fan of nuance yeah no binoe unpaid I didn't even finish for the listeners for the listeners unpaid internships

bye bye but also lots of people are sneaky with unpaid internships right so unpaid internships actually have been banned in a lot of places. However, work experience has not.

Yeah. So I've been in places before where they have a policy of banning unpaid internships, which are basically, because people used to advertise internships online and they'd be formal internships that be unpaid. Now there are 15 and 16-year-olds who are children of clients

just coming through the back doors in work experience. So the whole lot, yeah, it's sneaky. The 93% Club did this big survey called the big state school survey, like 10,000 people answered it. And I think... A lot of you guys as well because I put up my story. Yeah, yeah. It was crazy because one of the big things that came out was we actually asked a question

of whether or not unpaid internships has actually been stopped. And like the vast majority, I think it was like two thirds of people who answered said that they'd been forced to babysit, they essentially look after the child of an exec or a client. I also think there's something really interesting here about AI and how that's going to start transforming how people get opportunities. In what way? Because AI is going to democratise access to information, right? You can type into AI, you know, things that are all over the internet.

And actually, that's going to mean that loads of working class kids probably have access in a way they haven't had before. But the problem is everyone's using AI to make their applications. So employers can no longer see the wood from the trees. Because everyone's applications look the same. So what that means is that people are going to start relying more. on referrals and quality assurance. Because if I'm reading two applications that sound the same because they're AI,

I just want someone to tell me who, I won't make my job easier. Who do you think is better? And so that obviously benefits people that have the connections. Yeah. Yeah. Dun dun dun. Yeah. Yeah.

Networking events. Oh, I would say bye. Networking events buy. I think that networking events need to be a bit more structured though. if you have a networking event and you're kind of expecting people just to like raw dog it, then you're benefiting people who have spent their life networking who are already familiar with, you know, oh, so you know, here's small talk. If you're not used to that environment, you don't really know what the social contract is.

So sometimes the students that, you know, are in the 93% club, they'll walk into a networking event and they don't actually know what they're meant to be doing there. They don't really understand how to get the most out of it. So I'm a big fan of networking events, but I think that you know, need to make it super clear up front, who's going to be there, explain, you know, what you should be doing in the room. And then also just make it super easy to follow up after as well. Like, just make things like super clear, super transparent. If you've been brought up to network, which I think if you're listening and you went to a private school, you disagree with this. I would say it's, it's not necessarily

like you've had lessons on networking. It's just, I found with my experience with friends who went to private school, socially they can interact with age group, different age groups better, I find. Yeah. I find it really difficult to interact with people who are older than me or like interact with my peers in a professional sense. I can interact with my peers in a social sense, but you put me in a professional sense and I suddenly feel like a fish out of water.

I think that private school kids tend to do that a lot better and be a lot more relaxed with it. And I find this like, I hate networking events. And I will find the first person who will talk to me. I'll cling on to them. Kling on to them for dear fucking eyes. Yeah. at me. And I'm like, I need to stop doing this. I can't, this is not useful. I wait for someone else

out of a toilet one, so then shook me off. But do you know why I think that is? Do you know why I think that you find it harder? Yeah. It's that point I come back to that I was sort of, you know, stating my mum about, which is that when I was growing up, you know, and this is not, this is not to slight my mum or anything, but like I would sit and eat dinner with a tray on my lap and just watch TV. Like, no one, you know, I wasn't talking about current affairs or I, I was, you know, I wasn't, I wasn't talking about, you know, what's going on in the world or like, oh, did you see this or did you see that? Like there's an element of that kind of that small talk that you are equipped with comes to you if you grew up in middle class family and your parents are in the city and they've seen what's happened in the news and that's the topic of conversation at the table. You can walk into an event and be ready to talk about that sort of thing.

And that's also why when working class kids transition to a university setting, particularly where you have a sort of a seminar or tutorial, they find it a lot harder to transition because. because you're suddenly being asked what your opinion is as opposed to write it down. Yeah. So actually there's an element of networking events. Again, they lend themselves to people who have grown up being spoken to as if they're adults already. That's what also I find in state schools versus private schools. The relationship with teachers is so different. Like I remember when one of my friends was telling me that the teachers were invited to their 18th birthday party that they had at the family home.

Like they had like the family home. It's always at the family home, is there? The family home. Not the second home. Do you know what I mean? So she was saying that her friend, her parents were hosting her 18th birthday party. Yeah.

And it was more of like a family, family friends and the teachers were invited. Like, I think, I don't think that's the case for everyone. But even just if you're at a boarding school, like your relationship with your teachers is different. It's a bit more adult.

It's a bit more peer to peer. Yeah. Which in state schools are like prison. Like a lot of the time state schools have to operate like prisons. Well, do you know what the thing is, but I also think it's given their credit, It's also pastoral. So actually in state schools, there is more of a parent-child relationship because there has to be.

Yeah. So actually, because the kids are going through. So there's behavioural stuff, right? But actually, usually that's because the kids are going through quite a lot. Yeah. So the teachers are having to step in and not just teach them. Like, I think state school teachers would love just to walk into a classroom and be like, and this is, oh, yeah, like, here's a topic of conversation.

But actually they're coming in and being like, oh, like, there's a child that's hungry and they're distracted because of that. or, you know, there's a child who actually like, maybe they're having a really traumatic home life. So state school teachers are having to do pastoral work as well, which switches the dynamic. It means they're spending more time checking in on the kid to make sure that they're okay. And so actually it's quite funny because I've got really close relationships with my teachers, particularly my sixth form teacher.

But I actually don't think it was because we like sort of like, we're having like academic conversations. It was because she saw me when I was like crawling out of. my shift at McDonald's and she was she like saw me and made sure that I was okay so there's like a real love there as well but yeah it's totally different yeah and I yeah that does impact how you feel around in like networking events later later on yeah seeing yourself is almost yeah yeah like an equal in some ways yeah this is a big one okay elocution lessons so someone in our network actually got a sent for elucion lessons not by us obviously but

when they were at uni, I think by-bye, I, do you know what it's really difficult is like, I think I'm a realist. I'm a realist. I'm a realist. I'm a realist. I'm quite pragmatic,

which is that I think that there are two jobs to be done to make sure that people feel like they can be themselves. Yeah. That they don't have to change their accent. They don't have to change the way they present. And I think that that work is essential. And that's what I do with state school proud and talking about, you know, the stuff that happened to me. At the same time, I'm also pragmatic.

And I know that that bit takes a long time. So at the same time, you need to be real with people and you need to say, actually, honestly, this might be how you need to present so you can get in the door. Yeah. I think the key thing is to remind people that they are presenting and being a chameleon rather than fundamentally changing. because what I did was fundamentally change myself as opposed to realizing that I was context switching and I think that's like the key difference there. On the elocution stuff,

I remember I was in a law firm interview and the interviewer refused to start the interview until I pronounce water correctly because I said water. And I don't really pronounce my teas that much. I think like now like it's like a soft tea like when you have like it's kind of like an estuary like London accent like I say rather than accent it's accent

but he refused to start the interview until I said I couldn't say water either it had be water so he refused to start it sorry like if you can't see my eye rolls through the people who are listening but yeah he wouldn't start the interview because I just there's been times when that has happened to me where people have said bottle I go bottle yeah you pass me my bottle and they'll go

bottle. And I'm like, shut the fuck up. Sorry. This is the most profanity I've used in an episode at all, full stop. But it really annoys me because like, it's no skin off your back whatsoever

how I say bottle. But it's also like, did you understand me? Yes, exactly. Well then, like, there you go. We're on the same page, aren't we? And it's just, my effing like, pass it to me. It's just such a like belittling and

demeaning way. I mean, accent's a big one, but yeah, elocution lessons. got the money for that anyway. I think it's reminding people you are enough as you are. Yeah. The system is not. You are not the problem. But other people won't see you that way, right? Yeah. But yeah, I think, you know, we can't. I do think the narrative of like, be who you are and the world will bend to you is just like. Not realistic. It's not helpful advice. Yeah. I mean, it's really nice if you've got loads of money. Like, I'd love to be myself if I had a trust fund. I'd be myself all day. The girl in the Doc Martins, she can wear Doc Martins. She can wear whatever the hell she wants and she

will succeed. If I'd rocked up in Doc Martins and a mini denim skirt, that would be game over for Fay. I swear like a... I swear so much. Swear like a sailor. I do swear like a sailor. And then so every new year I set myself, my goal is that I'm going to swear like. And then every year I swear life. I'm going to swear life. I'm just listening to Zemot. That's so shirmy. And then I'll be around posh people and they'll be swearing in professional context. And I'd be like, swearing isn't that bad. And then I have to remind myself, they can swear, Faye. You. Cannot. You're not lots of it.

Yeah. Often, unfortunately, the way of the world is that we will not land on our feet. No. No, I'm landed on my ass every time my head, my neck, my back, like, you know, never on the feet. Yeah. Roll your ankle. Elocution lessons. So building a personal brand.

Yay. Yeah, I think that's a good one. Bye. Nice. I think we're like, we're in a really interesting economy now where I think that, your a lot of your value and worth is now going to be tied to your digital footprint

and finding it also like when I'm recruiting people I like immediately look people up and see what I can see about them there's never been like an easier time to build a personal brand so I think if you're not doing that like potentially you know you know I guess there's a question of like why you're not why you're not doing that but then as I'm talking

I'm sort of disagreeing with myself because then I guess I think it depends on your age and your demographic and what you've got going on in your life, right? Like, am I going to be building a personal brand if I'm like working multiple jobs and blah blah blah, like maybe not? The only thing I would say about building a personal brand is that again, in the UK we do have a real tall poppy syndrome problem. And if you're building a personal brand in a professional setting, your card is marked. like it's only a matter of time until you know you're you know there's a there's a

limited scope to it's almost like a purity about it right like I felt with the professions there's a real purity about how you show up and how you're presented it's like slightly uncouth which is another word that I learned at uni by the way it's like slightly unful if anyone listening who doesn't know what uncouth means it basically means like

a bit tacky it's a bit icky it's a bit uncouth I'd like to thank the girl who insulted me for that But yeah, like people see it as like a bit unprofessional to be like showing up on social media. And, you know, so I've definitely struggled with that in the past with my career. But I think there are other ways of building personal brands, right? I think when you're building a personal brand, you're essentially, it's like an insurance, right? Which is that if you, if someone gets rid of you or you're no longer worthwhile to someone, actually, you're a bit of a lighthouse for other opportunities that are there.

So I'm definitely pro building a personal brand. but there are ways to build a personal brand that's not just about showing up online and social media. Actually, personal brand is what people say about you when you're not in the room. Are you a kind person? Are you funny?

Like, are you values driven? I think that that in itself, like how you show up to other people. Like, do you talk about people behind their backs? Like, what sort of person are you presenting as? And also, like, are you doing a high quality job? I think there's a really interesting thing here about in this culture.

It's like very, very hustling. people are always looking at the next best thing like oh how do I do this how do I do that and they don't focus on doing a good job of what's in front of them yeah and actually when it comes to building a personal brand like you focus on the job at hand do a really good job of that and then people say nice things about you behind your back I think you've hit the nail on the head with the you there's there's a pros and a cons of creating a personal brand on social media specifically yeah I have been open about sticking my head above the parapet by being on social media in medical school that led to a lot of situations that I do not think would have happened if I was...

Probably still be a doctor right now, right? Yeah, I wouldn't have been pushed away in the way that I was pushed away. My view was soured considerably by those experiences. And I don't think I would have gone through those experiences if I was a well-spoken, privately educated woman. There's no two ways about it. I don't know if I've ever spoken about this, actually. So a lecturer sent me a picture of me in a bikini.

The email wasn't meant for me. So I did a subject access request on all the emails that had ever been sent about me. by my uni. And basically one of them that came up that was like, because I was getting uni in Essex, they said, we've already got to deal with being like the stereotype of the only way is Essex.

And now we've got Fay representing us. And I was like, so you do see me as this. So gross. Can you imagine if that was like a gendered comment or a racial comment or like it's like class, like the classism is just mad. Yeah.

Like it's so casual. In professional emails sent by lecturers, you cannot tell me that there's classist undertones to that. A hundred percent. And so there's that element of you do stick your head above the parapet and you make your differences even more pronounced. There's the other edge of it is I have not had elocution lessons. I have stuck my head above the parapet to show,

and the same with you, you've stuck your head above the parapet to show success is absolutely 100% attainable, you know? Although I feel like a bit of a sellout though because I did change my accent. I sound so different. But then I guess it's slightly different, right? Because you've got a Welsh accent. Like there's sort of the... North-y, like, yeah, yeah.

Whereas my accent was quite Essex-y. And there's actually a study from the University of Essex, which found that the, like, the Essex accent is seen as the stupidest accent in the UK. So, like, I feel like I have... Yeah, I kind of like, almost I fell victim to that, right? Like, I kind of wish that earlier I had been, like, no. You are the antithesis. Antithesis.

Antithesis. We know what you mean. Yeah, yeah. It's the exception, right? But this is the point is that I'm so cautious to, like, I think I used to love being, like, exceptional and being like, wow, look at me. I've achieved everything against the odds. But I think that's really dangerous because people then latch on to that narrative and they go, well, if she can do it, why can't you? And actually, like, it is a miracle that I have ended up in the situation that I've ended up with. And it came from, like, a lot of love and support from my mom. And I think that's a miracle. that is probably what got me here. But like all the data suggest that I shouldn't be doing what I'm doing. And so what I don't want is people to take that and go, well, you lot are just lazy

or you can just do it because she's done it. Actually it's like, no, this is like systemic, it's infrastructure. Like we need to stop the social mobility narrative of like just one person does it and you're exceptional and that's amazing. We need all communities to be risen. I'm going to ask you something really, really, really personal.

And I feel like people, will actually probably maybe have a go at me for saying this. But I think it's an important part of the conversation to be completely honest. And as a health, like, you know, podcast, you've recently posted about having endometriosis. Yeah. Just having your surgery. Yeah. We know that there is a link between endometriosis and considerable stress.

Yeah. Do we think that had you not had to go through all the stress that you've gone through for the last two decades, you know, of your life? Would you still have any breach of choices? Like it's, I don't know. Yeah, I don't. Do you know what it's so, like, this is so timely because I have always been quite a sickly person, I think probably because of stress. And yeah, like, growing up, like, it wasn't that fun for me.

Like, I mean, you know, there were some bits that were fun, but, you know, having panic buttons, like living on my nerves, I'm having panic buttons that you have to press when your own dad, like, comes anywhere near you, like, him having a restraining order. I used to be kept behind at school because, like, because in case my dad, broke into the playground to come and get me. So that teacher would have to hold me back and make sure that I was picked up by a responsible adult who could come get me. And then like, you know, turning 16 and like doing a shift at McDonald's, which is

actually really stressful. And then working two jobs. I worked in John Lewis and then like going to uni having to work through. Like I think my body's been under a lot of strain for a really long time. And then when I founded 93% Club, I was doing a job as a corporate lawyer. I was working like, I don't know, until like three in the morning and then logging on to do my, you know, organization stuff. And then, you know, I feel like my body's been under a lot of intense stress for a long period.

And I found out that I have endometriosis because I found a lump. And I went to the hospital like multiple times. And the doctors didn't really examine me. And they sent me away and they said their words, but vaginas are just lumpy. And I was like, I was like, oh, maybe, maybe my vagina is just lumpy. lumpy. But then I went and then actually love a gorgeous nurse examined me and she was like, oh, this doesn't look right. But then I was on like a two-week cancer track because they were like, oh, there's a lump here that shouldn't be here. That's panicking. Anyway, that's how they found endometriosis

and I had the surgery. I had the surgery about three weeks ago now. And I went back for my results yesterday. So super timely. But and they were like, yes, you've got endometriosis. Obviously that's stressful. But the thing that was like the most dramatic was that my bowel was like fused to my left hand side, like stuff growing around it. And the surgeon had to like basically cut away my bowel from my left hand side and like put it back into place. And when I asked him like what had caused that, he was like inflammation and like your body being under stress has probably caused that. So yeah, I think that there is a real, I mean, like we know that working class communities have poorer health outcomes. Yeah. For a number of reasons, right? And it's even when you

adjust for things like poor diet, smote. smoking, alcohol, even when you adjust for all of those things, you still get worse outcomes suggesting there is this link between... Yeah, when you unpick the health side of things. Like, I was thinking about... My dad passed away when I was 12 and he died of liver, as far as the liver. Yeah. Obviously, alcoholics are not eligible for...

I don't know if they are now, but they weren't eligible for liver transplants, right? I'm almost sure it's a case-by-case case basis because people can go down rehab. He was in rehab, out of rehab, using... Yeah. So I think he probably wasn't a casing. But actually, if you think about it, and I'm not advocating, like, let's just give, like, let's just, yeah, live us for everyone. Yeah. But if you think about it, you know, my dad was an alcoholic and used drugs because he had a really traumatic childhood.

He was homeless. Like, he had a really hard life. And when you look at homeless people, like, and they're using, I would use too if I was on the street and I was cold. And so actually, like, there is nothing that is independent from poverty and class. And I think that when we look at health outcomes for working class people, like, you can't tell me. It's not linked to the fact that a huge amount of medical professionals, doctors, particularly at that level, are from middle class backgrounds. You can't empathize with the life that these people lead why they might be smoking or drinking or overweight. Like, it's really expensive to shop for healthy food.

And actually, maybe you don't have time to figure out, like, how many, like, saturated fats are in something or, you know, blah, blah, blah. So I think there's a real lack of empathy there as well. I think at least a poor outcomes for working class people. We had some debates in uni and I remember just some of them being like, what the hell are these people talking about? And he basically was saying that people who were obese shouldn't get an operation for something.

People asking our opinions and to discuss it. And I was thinking, you're as slim as a bean. Yeah. It's lean, whatever that phrase is. Yeah, going on like a Christmas middle class walk or something. Do you know what you mean? Yeah, like you don't have any empathy for people. Like, understanding when you've been given that information.

But again, there's understandable. right? Because this is what I always come back to with, it's not just that they're not being malicious or ignorant. That is their will to you. Well, they are being ignorant but in the purest sense, not in a nasty sense. My problem with state and private schools is that at age five, you're

separating kids into you have money and you don't. And then these kids never meet. One set of kids goes and does rugby and rowing and all these sports. Another set of kids does football and, you know, sports that don't require equipment. And then they end up at university

together but they go and join different social clubs or they go to different halls because they can't afford certain halls and so they don't mix again. So I'm never surprised when I was at uni and I had an 18 year old calling me a chav or laughing at my accent, how can I be surprised when you've never grown up with someone like me? In the same way that I would look at posh people and be like, what's going on here? I didn't know what a pile was. I thought it was a lump in your bum, like a country pile. Like it's like a big thing in the country, like a big house in the countryside. People were talking about their piles.

And I was like, they have lumps in their ass. No, they were. No, I didn't know what a pile was until you said that. There you go. Look it up. So someone was like, oh yeah, the summer I was just at my pile. And I was like, yeah. It was like, oh yeah, I know.

So I said, I know a few people that have got a pile. And I was like, I'm pretty sure piles like a lump in your bum. You know, I didn't realize that people were going to South. I don't know. I thought there was just France. It was in South France. Or like, you know, it's like a different world in Thai. Like you go to like Costa del Sol and like, you know, a packet holiday for like 400 quid.

You're like running for a sun lounger because there's only like five of them. Yeah, it's just a different world. You've made some really good points that will come on to my wild card. I will remember my wild card that I haven't got a piece of paper before because. You've already asked me about wild card. There's more to come. Okay. I pretend not say that.

Mentalship programs. I do think there's a little bit of death by mentorship programs. Okay. I am in that world, right, where there's like loads of mentorship programs. I, the good thing about mentorship programs is that it's like high intensity. You get someone like coming in, sweeping in, helping someone. But that's not always scalable. I would like to see something a bit more systemic change because I don't think we're going to make progress by just mentoring 30 students and then, you know, doing the next batch and then doing the next batch.

What we do at 93% Club is essentially like create a state school alumni network and encourage all of them to like go back to their schools and support one another. So like mentorship programs tend to be quite self-contained, quite small. But what we're doing is like infrastructure led. I am pro-mentorship programs. I think there's a place for them. But I think we can think bigger. Like why? It's like putting like I'm a big tennis for a fan.

But like I always think of like band-aid over bullet hole. Yeah. We have something seriously. wrong in this country with the education system. Like the state private divide is ruining the country, not just because, number one, it's anti-competitive. It basically like takes students who haven't earned their stripes yet, pumps them full of resources and then tells them that they like are entitled to go and rule the world while everyone else has to kind of like fight it out in this sort of hunger games style situation. But I also think it's it's contributing to populism. When I see the

rise of right-wing politics that is cast. like reform that is capitalising on working class communities, it's because it's really easy to capitalize on working class communities because actually like they've never mixed with someone who is from like middle class background or a private school background. And so actually it's really easy to like make those people the enemy. So yeah, I've got a, I think we're not thinking big enough. Yeah.

I think mentorship programs are good. But like what is the most ambitious version of this? Like how can we think bigger? People will never talk about fixing the education. system properly. They're a whole relationship to a mentorship program. Oh, like great. Like more.

Like what's the next thing that we can do? Yeah. I feel very passionate about this. No, I love. Okay. Moving to London. Obviously London is super fun. I wish that people didn't have to.

I think that it's again thinking, I'm from North London. So obviously I didn't have to move here. But, you know, there is a big problem with actually people leaving their communities and at least a bit of a brain drain. So like what tends to happen is that you. you get these like communities that will have like the odd success story, right? A working class community, a couple of the kids get out, get out, which is the narrative that I was told.

But then they never go back. And so what happens is like these communities like over time just become like so run down. If you look at the seaside towns. I'm from a seaside town. Yeah. I spent like so much of my child had going to Clacton, which is Nigel Farage's constituency. And if you go back there, it's just like it's quite sad. Like it's quite depressing.

because the people who have lived there growing up there who then do well, then leave London. So I think that moving to London is fun and it's great. And obviously I would say that because I'm from here. But I think we need, again, thinking about the systemic change. How do we make the regions stronger? So if the people want to leave, great they can, but they don't have to. Yeah.

We need to make sure that there is opportunity there. And I think that actually that is ever more important because London is becoming so expensive to live here. So like how do we create opportunities? in the region. How do we like devolve things? Because, you know, there's more to the UK than London. And so many different cultures here as well. So many, like northern cultures, very different Southern culture. Like, you know, different countries are all very different to each other. I bought a flat in London off of money from social media. That would be completely impossible from a

salary, let alone a doctor's salary. But then like, if you're not got family money, you're cooked. You're absolutely cooked. And there was a really brilliant dory swipy. It was a swipy on Instagram. The sign of the time. I like the scroll. I think it was by The Economist. And it compared two people, both went to the same uni, both got the same degree. And then both started the same 30K grad job, okay? Person number one doesn't have family money and isn't from the home counties.

So person one starts renting in London. Person two grew up in the home counties. So lives in their family mansion. It is. Family home to save some money on rent. So then it fast forward five years later. Person two, it says how much money they've managed to save. Absolutely bugerall because you're in London.

You literally can't say anything. You're in like net negative. Yeah, exactly. Person number two, being staying at his family home. So he's being able to save for a deposit. We don't even need to save for a deposit. If you've got family money, they just give you the money. Exactly.

And then that was another part. They said, oh, and his parents gifted him 10 grand to go towards his deposit. Yeah. So like all these things that, and then it gets to them being 40 and how much money each of them having savings, like individually. And I think I love living in London absolutely adore it. And I don't want to dampen people's ambitions, you know, but I think that if you do not come from money,

make your decisions wisely. Do not try to keep up with people you can't keep up with because you will be the one who is damaged in the long run. Before social media, I did a lot of trying to keep up with people financially. Oh, yeah. And you don't have to do that. You know, it was not the right decision for me at all. And I thought that that was how I could fit in.

And in the long run, and I was very lucky, that as I was like, you know, three grand in my overdraft, suddenly people start watching my YouTube, which is bloody brilliant. But like... Blues watch my YouTube. And then I was like, oh, fabulous. Like, this is fab. But financially, I would have drove myself into the ground trying to keep up with people to fit in.

And really, really think about that would be my advice. Yeah. My wild card, which I think might be a bit controversial. Oh, spicy. Nice. Go on. It's something that has been really playing on my mind a lot recently. Yeah. So imagine the piece of paper here, wild card, is sending your kids to private school. Okay. Okay. And basically this, this is, okay, okay, so let me tell you my dilemma. Go on. Right now, five years ago, I would say absolutely no way in hell am I sending my kids to a private school. Yeah. Because the brains of children are so squidgy and absorbing. I don't think that the majority of your social interaction,

should be with a group of people that is not representative of the wider society that you live in. You need to be able to empathise with the vast majority of people. That is a key, key, key components being a good member of society, in my opinion. I do not, one,

some of the things I've heard from people where they're just so out of touch, they do not understand that people can live from paycheck's paycheck, that's just beyond their comprehension. I would be so disappointed and I would feel like I would have, old as a parent if my child got to the age of 18 and they could not empathise with people

who do not have money. Yeah. And my boyfriend is my fiancé. My fiancé is not privately educated either. So we are both on the same page as that. However, my boyfriend's family have a fair bit of money. Yeah. They have chosen not to send him to private school.

Yeah. They have chosen to spend their money in other ways. Yeah. However, I was having this conversation with someone I said, absolutely not. I would not send my kids to private school and then she, this person who went to an all-girls school she said to me, Faye, that

what about if she's a woman? Because the way that she said my old girls school, it was like living in the Barbie movie. We did not realise that sexism existed. We just had ambition drilled into us for women, giving them the gift of ambition. In privately educated women do not seem to struggle as much

with these issues of imposter syndrome and ambition and as much as the state school girlies do. That's where I hit a really big wall of, oh, now my moral campus is at odds with probably the individual desires I would have for my child. And that is, I'd imagine, where a lot of people get pulled into it. I think firstly, let's not make any assumptions that all girls schools are good places to be. Yeah. I've heard mixed reviews.

Yeah. I have lots of friends who went to all girls schools. I think there are trade-offs, one again being, I think there is like an element of, again, the psychological warfare. I think dealing with like a huge school of girls, I think would actually be quite difficult. So I don't think let's not paint it as like sunshine and roses for everyone. All girls school also have like a real history of things like eating disorders and like appearance issues because all you have a girl's around you. And there's no sort of that kind of masculine energy dilating it. So there is a point around like outcomes for girls schools being.

very different to mixed schools. Yeah. So where I land on this issue is that what you're describing is an inherently selfish desire with something that is something that is, I guess, like a moral question. And I think where we've landed and the problem is, is that the narrative around state and private schools has always been around this sense of entitlement and individualism. I have the money, I should be able to do whatever I want to do with my children, to give them the best start in life. And I think the problem with that is that people think that that is a decision that has no consequences for anyone else.

Yeah. My problem with private schools, I mean, there's a few of them. I think one, from a society perspective, they're anti-competitive. Yeah. The people who talk about meritocracy the most are the people that send their kids to private schools. And that for me is like, if you truly believe in meritocracy, why don't you put your kid into a state school and see how they get on without all that extra resource? I think the second point here is that the point I made earlier around dividing kids at a

young age where their brains are so malleable that they can't empathise with other people. Like I think it is really damaging to society to split kids into the haves and have-nots at such a young age. And people in the private school lobby will say that suddenly, private schools are full of working class kids. They're not. Of the 7% of people that go to private school, only 4% of them come from backgrounds that the Social Mobility Commission

were considered to be working class. So we're talking like a real, real minority. It's teeny, teeny, teeny. So if you've got 100% of the population, 7% go to private school. Yeah. Then of that population, only 4% are from working class backgrounds.

Then when you look at the fees, only 8% in total are on scholarships. So 8% of that 7% are on scholarships. So that is either fully means tested. But actually most of the scholarships go to like choral scholars so like kids who can play the organ. And you're not having a working task to play the organ.

Yeah, it's just not Billy Elliott. You know, like, you know, so I think there's a narrative that we need to dispel, which is that state and private schools are not engines for class. They absolutely are. And I think the important thing is that you do get state schools where you have middle class children in them. Of course you do. But actually the whole purpose of state schools, the whole purpose of course.

comprehensive schools is that they represent a comprehensive picture of society. And I think that's really, really healthy. And I do worry that so many of the social ills that are coming out of, in society are because we divide people at such a young age that they can't empathise with one another. And so I think we need to get out of this narrative that, like, it's not a, like, it's a selfish decision. To send your child to a private school is a selfish decision. And I think you need to own that and stand on that. And if that's a selfish decision you want to make, that's totally fine. we all make selfish decisions. For example, I really care about animals.

I love animals. I eat meat. That's because I'm selfish. And when I do that, I make a selfish decision. And actually, it's bad for the planet. But I do that, knowing all of, I make an informed choice that actually on balance, that I would prefer to do that.

Do you see what I mean? So I think we need to stop pretending that it's not a selfish decision to send your children to private school. This is the real fundamental problem. So it's not just about empathy. It's not about the fact it's anti-competitive. and we're not sure if the best people are getting the jobs.

But the final thing is that state schools will never get better when middle class families send their kids to private schools. Because when you can opt out of a system, you can't improve it. So if you think about my state comprehensive, a lot of the parents at my school, actually, if something was going wrong with the standards or if a teacher wasn't teaching the class properly, like our families aren't writing letters to like a school board or governors.

or like there's no means of being able to advocate for that. If you have middle class families in state schools, you can help improve the quality of that school for like a working class kid who might not be able to do it for themselves. And so I think there's something really powerful. There's like something really, really powerful about middle class families opting to send their kids to a state school. Because in opting to send your kid to a state school,

you are giving a working class kid at that state school a chance to befriend, your child to benefit from your child's privileges. And actually I think about like if I had more middle class families at my state school, maybe after school like I could have like gone around to my mate's house. And maybe if their parents were doctors or engineers, they could talk to me about their careers. They didn't matter that, you know, my family didn't have professional careers because I could learn from osmosis from them.

So I think there's also a real social good about sending your kids to state school. And I just find it fascinating that we don't have the same love to state education as we do for the NHS. When it came to COVID, people were out there, bashing pots and pans for the NHS. Obviously, we know that NHS funding. We all know that it's not perfect. But if you ask most, I think the national sentiment is that the NHS is a good thing. Yes, maybe it needs to be reformed. Yes, maybe it needs improvements. But people have such a respect and a love for it. When you ask people about like state and private schools, it's really interesting. Like a huge amount of people think that private schools are bad for society. And then when you then ask the

question, or should we ban them then? People go, oh, no. So it's like people aren't willing to, people aren't willing to make that step. So yeah, ultimately, the choice is yours to make. But I think it's, there's something so, like, you are helping society by sending your kid to a state school. And I think that's beautiful. I think I really needed to hear that because all my friends would say to me who went to private schools, are you telling me you're not going to send your kids? kids were private school. Five years ago, I would go, absolutely not. My kid will go to a state school because I wanted someone who's a doctor as a parent in that year group who could go, you can come do work experience with me because I never had that. Yeah, you're sending your kids to a state school,

you're not just changing your kids life. When you send your kids to a private school, you're not changing the lives of the other kids there, do you don't mean? Like they have kids, they have parents that doctors, like, you're sending your kid to a state school, you're like lifting that whole, and you're going to be the person they're inviting in to come and talk to the kids about your career. That what made me really, really happy. But then I think you surround yourself with people who have gone to private school. The other narrative that I've heard amongst certain conversations is that if you have the money

to send your kid to a private school and you don't, you're a burden on the tax system. That is a narrative that I heard that when I was so sure of that I wanted to send my kids to state school and I went, oh, am I a bad person for wanting this? I've heard on the time. Oh, they love that. Honestly, the private school lobby love the like, I'm. helping the tax system. Send is another big one.

Oh, God, they love reaching for send when actually, if you look at the data. So, by the way, you can find all of the data on private schools on the, I think it's like the Association of Independent Schools. Okay. They have all the data there about the number of kids who are special education, when I say send for the listeners, special educational needs. That has been such a thing that the private school lobby have hidden behind. But actually, the amount of children who are on EHCPs or who have actual complex

needs. They're in highly specialised private schools that are like subsidised by the state or funded by the state. They're not in Eaton and Harrow and Winchester. They're not in those schools. But actually like, I think there was a stat when VAT on private schools came out. I think it was the Times. I might be, saying it wrong, but one of those newspapers ran 333 articles about it in the course of 12 months. That's like basically an article every day. These are businesses that have a really strong vested interest in you spending your money with them. And they spend a lot of money, like sending out all this misinformation.

For me, the biggest burden on the taxpayer is the fact that we have people in society who will never reach their potential and actually, like, become long-term unemployed or can't work, because they've been left in state schools that are massively underfunded because the middle-class families who could make it better for everyone

are sending their kids to private school. That, for me, is the biggest tax burden is that we're not utilising the potential in this country, not whether or not you're opting to take your kids out of the state school. I mean, do you know what I mean? Like, God, if we were like relieving the tax system, this country being a much better place,

it's only 7% of you. Yeah. Do you know what you mean? Like, I mean, you're a small group of people. You're not giving that much relief to the system. Anyway, obviously, I feel very strongly about that. Yeah. There's so many myths.

There's so many myths. I just think like, yeah, always remember there's a strong vested interest in this. Well, I think that neatly brings me on to actually, which I've left to right at the last minute, But can you explain where the name of the 93% club comes from? And actually you talk about the vested interest. How is the private school population represented in all these big fields?

So the 93% club comes from the fact that 93% of the UK are stay educated. And the reason I wanted to give it that name is because when you look at all of the major corridors of power, doctors, lawyers, judges, private schools are overrepresented between around like, I think. think it's between four and five times, which have you applied that to like women, if men were overrepresented at the rate that private schoolers are overrepresented, there would be no women. There'd be no women visible. Like if you just let that sink in, we have normalized it so much that private schoolers are overrepresented. It's overwhelming how many dinners, how many places where I sit, where I am the only state educated. And we've normalized it. If you, if you were the only woman, you'd be like, oh, this is weird,

but we've totally normalized it. And actually, if you look at it, and actually, if you look if you look at all of the data, private schools are massively overrepresented in these industries. And I think that has a really negative effect on this country because I think if you're a decision maker who's making decisions on free school meals and you've never been hungry, how can I expect you to make an informed decision if you don't ever live alongside that? Or if you're a doctor making a decision on a working class woman's healthcare, actually like, do you empathise with this person? It's like a really important. And by the way, that's not to say that people who haven't had these experiences aren't empathetic. I was

actually say that if you look at my friendship group, I've got a pretty good balance of friends who went to private schools and friends who went to state schools. And my friends went to private schools are like deeply empathetic, gorgeous, lovely people who actually really back me in what I'm doing. And so when other people shout at me about it, I'm like, well, if they can get over it, like, so can you. But they will never truly understand because they've never lived it. And I think that is really, really essential. So the thing that I noticed when I was at university is like all of my privately educated peers seem to already know people. And they had people, to reach for when they're applying for jobs or when they needed something, like needed help

with something. And I thought to myself, okay, well, what's happening here? And I realized that private schools have these incredible alumni networks, like old blibliens or like blibb. I was always old. I didn't ask them the old. Any eons. Yeah. Neatian. Anyway. And state schools, like, we don't really have a brand identity. We're not really like, you know, we're not like, I'm an old hearts woodian or something. Like, you just went to that school. I'm John Scheitzian. Yeah, you're a John Scheitzian. So I think the brand is really interesting because you spoke about personal brand and how important it is.

Actually, if you don't feel like attached to a brand or have a strong affinity to it, you're never going to go back and support that school. Because you don't feel like a strong tie to it. So I thought to myself, well, clearly these private school networks, alumni networks are super effective because they're getting all of their mates into positions of power. And I thought, state schoolers, we literally like get shot out of a cannon. And we do. We get shot out of a cannon. And it's like, like, Godspeed. Like, good luck.

And like, I was like, you're kind of like, you're just like on this little race. And I thought to myself, how powerful would it be if I could create a national state school alumni network where we are also united behind a brand. And we have a sense of identity. And we're like, yeah, we're going to help one another. And that's where the nice three of second have came from.

I'm basically taking on the old boys networks. Love. I love it so much. I'm just so, so, so, so. and we're going to leave all the details on how people can find you underneath. Before we get to the end of the podcast, we have been asking all the guests this question.

Sophie, what do you wish every woman knew by the time she was 25? It's a big one. Your frontal lobe is definitely about to develop. I think that between the ages of 25 to I'm 30 this year, I just totally came into my own. So if you feel like you're in the pits right now, you're struggling,

there is something, and I don't know what it is, there's something that happens. I think it's when you're like 26. Yeah. And your brain, it just clicks into place and you go, I know who I am and I'm confident and I'm self-assured. And actually you're like, God, this is kind of,

you just feel like you've got it worked out and you feel more comfortable in your skin. So yeah, I think like the good times are about to come. And as I get older, I feel even better. So I'm really looking forward to my 30s. There's a bit more like not giving a fuck. Sorry, although the posy mouth is just. I still like, you know, in a way that I probably should have done in the past.

But I think it's a right of passage as a woman to like fill a little bit. I always remember when I was like single, I was just like such a sad act. I was always like, oh, like, me. And I kind of think, God, like, I just feel like so powerful now. And like, no, I just feel like I know who my friends are. I like know what I stand for. My values that has really clicked into place. Like if you would ask me a few years ago

about how I felt about state and private schools I'd have been like, oh well, you know, I don't think it's great but like I'd definitely like support your decision. Like if you'd ask me that question, I'd be like, oh, you'd just do what you want. And now I'm like, you've actually asked me what I think. Here's what I think. But in a way that it's like I also can accept

that you have your own views. Yeah. Yeah, I just think there's something really amazing about your brain. Yeah. It's a great time. You're more, yeah, you're more unapologetically yourself, which I think is absolutely wonderful.

Yeah. It has been a really amazing. an absolute pleasure to have you on the podcast. Everything in the description will tell people where to find you. If you can, join the 93% club. Join the 93% club. And thank you so much, Sophie, for coming on. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.