Her Discussions by Dr Faye - Skincare Expert: Affordable Routine + Best Korean Skin Products

Episode Date: January 5, 2026

ad Discover probiotics that actually work. Smart Strains delivers the right strain, dose, and format, backed by real clinical trials.Have a look:https://smartstrains.com/?utm_source=herdiscussions&utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=herdicussionspod&utm_id=Faye+BateDr Justine is an acne dermatologist and skincare expert, featured in Vogue, The Sunday Times, and more.In this episode, we’ll explore how to get rid of acne marks, tackle dark under-eye circles, and choose the best skincare for your skin type.What you’ll learn:💖 5 products to fade acne marks🌸 how to get rid of hormonal pimples💤 3 ingredients to fix dark circles⚠️ who should NOT use retinol✨ cheap ways to boost your collagen🥛 how to know if dairy is causing your acne💧 the products that give you glass skinBut first, please don’t forget to subscribe or leave a 5-star review, it really helps us to grow this podcast.Links to subscribe / follow:Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/her-discussions-by-dr-faye/id1835829612Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5viLYizHD4Zy6J42iqtPRoCan I ask you a BIG favour? 💙Please leave a review or rating. It helps us grow the podcast and bring you more amazing guests.Share with someone who needs this; it might help them live a happier, healthier life.Follow us on social media or join the broadcast channel to send us your questions for our guests. I'll leave the link here: https://www.instagram.com/channel/AbY4liwxlLnewx4H/?igsh=MWhuaXFweGtucTB3cA==https://www.instagram.com/channel/AbY4liwxlLnewx4H/?igsh=MWhuaXFweGtucTB3cA==🛑 Disclaimers & legal:This podcast is for educational / informational purposes only and does not constitute medical, legal, or financial advice. All opinions are those of the speaker(s).

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Dr. Justine is a dermatologist and skincare expert that has been featured in Vogue, the Sunday Times and more. There's a makeup product I love that gives immediate camouflage of the under eye area. Should I say? Yeah, go on, go on. So it's the... If you come and see a dermatologist, what they will do is strip everything out of your routine and leave you with... We'll explore how to get rid of acne marks, tackle, stubborn, dark... and dry circles, and even choose the best skincare for your skin's hype.

Doing nothing also has its problems. In acne, for example, if you don't treat it, people can end up with... Really? Hi, I'm Dr Justine, and you're listening to the Her Discussions Podcast. Dr. Justine, I'm so, so happy to have you on the podcast. We've had so many community questions about acne and so many different skin things. But first of all, I wanted to know what role your skin health, played in your life, maybe your earlier life growing up in South Africa?

So firstly, thank you for having me on. And my skin health wasn't something that really occurred to me very much until I was 12 and started getting spots. And that's really what led me to wanting to become a dermatologist, a sort of whole journey of having this things appear on your skin, not know what they are, not know how to look after them, but to answer your question about South Africa, I suppose my earliest thoughts about my skin health were my mum chasing me around the beach trying to get us to put sunscreen on as kids. And in those days, sunscreen was called sun tan lotion.

Interesting. I mean, you know, people would call it suntan lotion. So the idea of putting sunscreen on when I was little growing up was that you put it on to enable you to tan safely. that's what people were thinking about doing. And so I can remember, you know, having sort of regimen when we were little was you would have like SPF 20 to start off with. And then day three of your holiday or, you know, being at the beach, it would go down to SPF10 and then it might be SPF2 or something like this. And what we were trying to do is tan without burning.

So my mum was sort of within a lot of. she had at the time trying to be on it. And I shudder now when I think back to those days. And, you know, my job as a dermatologist now, I was spending so much time talking to people about treating sun damage, how to look after our skin and support it as we get older. And I wish I could turn back the clock for myself, but nothing you can do now.

I dread to think about some of the girls' holidays I had when I was 18 and the carrot oil of less than 10% or less than SBF 10, that was not a high point in my time looking after my own skin. And also you saying about the first time you got acne was, you know, that was a big part. That played a big role in your journey to dermatology as well. Yeah, absolutely. So, yes, sort of strange sunscreen stories aside,

I couldn't wait to be a teenager. And when I got my first spot, I thought, hooray, I'm a teenager, like it's happening. And so it was actually a bit of a novelty. And then they kept on coming. And, yeah, I was really self-conscious about it. I felt really self-conscious. My parents were really strict and my mom was like, you're not going to wear makeup. So I was like, I have no way of covering this up.

And I felt like everyone was looking at me. and I was very shy child. It's actually anything that sort of drew attention to me made me feel really uncomfortable. I just did not want to stand out. I wanted to blend in. And anyway, I hoped it would pass and my dad had had spots and he said to me,

you know, you'll grow out of it. And I was waiting and waiting and waiting and waiting and waiting to grow out of it. And the growing out of it wasn't happening as I tried all the things that you can get hold of, you know, from a pharmacy. Eventually, you know, saw a doctor. tried stuff that didn't work.

I didn't stick with it. I didn't really understand what it was supposed to do, your treatment. Anyway, eventually, because of the sun exposure history, South Africans are very hot about skin cancer. I think they are now. And so my mom took me to see a dermatologist because she was worried about a mole on my shoulder.

And the first thing the dermatologist said when I walked in was, never mind the mole, what about your acne? and I had this moment of horror, which was, oh my God, it must be really bad because the doctors noticed it. And also what rubbish bedside manner. But also it's part of me thinking, thank goodness, someone has noticed it. And maybe that means that I will now have some more help and it will get better. Anyway, long story short, I ended up taking treatment for acne in one form of another over many years. throughout, you know, teens and 20s and 30s.

And something I now understand is that female adult acne can be a long-term condition. But the point of all of this is to say that when someone did take me seriously and did give me treatment that actually worked for me, it felt really life-changing. And it's so nice to wake up in the morning and to just know that your skin's going to take care of itself. and that made me think this is pretty magical. And if I could be a doctor and if I could help other people in the same way,

then I'd be more than happy. And I think a lot of us doctors have experienced that sort of thing. Either ourselves or someone else in our family has had ill health for some reason. There's that feeling of being out of control. And so having the knowledge and the skills, you want to share it, don't you? and avoid other people from suffering.

And so yeah, that's what led me to wanting to study dermatology. And that was and still is my skin health journey, which is still ongoing. Still ongoing. Yeah. It's really interesting that you said about the doctor who said, never mind the mole, what's going on with your acne? Because I had almost an identical experience, this German GP, who I came in with tonsillitis

and he said almost identical to you he said never mind your throat what's going on with your skin and similar to yourself I felt like so almost like humiliated by the direct language but then he gave me some you know just even just like a little cream

you know like a benzoproxide or whatever that did help to an extent and I think a lot of the time with dermatology with skin it can be seen as quite a superficial thing, but I've experienced and, you know, I'm sure you'll agree how it can really, really impact your life,

it can impact your confidence, it can impact how you put yourself forward in your day, and it's not just something that is surface level or cosmetic. Yeah, absolutely. I think that's absolutely right. And what's really interesting is if we look at studies of impact, on long-term skin conditions on people's lives. There's a study looking at acne and impact on people's eyes and it showed that the burden of having a long-term skin condition

like acne can have a similar toll on people's emotional and psychological health as other chronic conditions that we would consider to be serious and valid like epilepsy or diabetes or arthritis. So although skin, conditions are often thought of superficial and cosmetic. They, they certainly are visible and therefore can affect our self-esteem. They can be really uncomfortable as well.

So, you know, acne can be painful. Other skin conditions like eczema, you know, can be itchy. So, you know, so there's, so there's nothing fluffy about it. Yeah. There's nothing fluffy about it. We're going to come on to some actionable tips for. anyone who's listening who may be struggling with acne or we had a lot of questions about under eye circles. But first, we're going to do our section called buy or bye bye. So you're going to

tell me, I'm going to show you some products that may be guided by current social media trends in skin health. And I would like to know whether you would buy these products or say bye to them. I love this. Yeah. So first step, a red light mask. You're going in strong with the one. So for me, bye-bye. But it's, as ever, a little bit more complicated than that. I think red light, for sure, has been shown to have some positive benefits in the skin. So it can help with calming inflammation.

It might help with dialing down redness and may also help with boosting collagen and therefore slowing signs of skin ageing. but most of the work is on devices that are used in a hospital or clinical setting. And so we might expect that the dose and exposure would be different there compared to masks that you would use at home, where necessarily if people can be operating something on their own at home, it needs to be super safe so that you can't go wrong. The at-home masks aren't as well studied. And I think it's a bit of a stretch to say for sure that the at-home masks would deliver

the same sort of results as an in-clinic device. That said, it's not complete nonsense. But I think the things that people need to know about are that you have to use the mask regularly to get benefit. You probably have to use it for quite a sustained amount of time before you get benefit. And that if you do all of those things, the benefits still might be very modest. So as long as someone is aware of those things, then I don't think there's any problem with using a red light mask.

And I know one of my, when I was having this discussion with one of my patients earlier in the week, and we were talking about stress management and what do you do to decompress during the week? And she said, I wear my red light mask because then no one bothers me while I have it on. And then I'll do something while I've got it on. And I thought, you know what? I quite like the idea of that. But I think the problem is that there is so much misleading marketing. And I think a lot of people buy a red light mask because,

there's this sort of idea that it's going to improve skin, but people don't exactly know what they're looking for it to do. And I think when people think that having a red light mask at home is going to treat their acne and then don't seek proper support for managing acne and then develop scarring, et cetera, in the meantime, that's a sort of scenario where I think it would be really useful, if people were really clear about what the mask can do, how much benefit it can have, and that there are sometimes better alternatives.

I think a really common thread that we've seen in a lot of these podcast episodes is not using or not going, avoiding using a product as a replacement for going to get clinical help is not a good idea. And that's, that's a really common thread. So I'm happy you said that. Another thing is focusing on the boring, boring, boring bloody basics that don't get the clicks. Don't get the, on is sexy, you know. Yeah. go and see a doctor getting proper treatment for your acne before maybe result into these things, which may have marginal gains that aren't going to be the foundations.

So, yeah, I feel like that was a really, really useful answer. And if I'm allowed to add one last thing, it's that a lot of people do get very upset if, you know, we say that actually the benefits might be modest because they'll say, I've tried it and actually had a good result. And I think some, you know, that's the nature of these things. Some people will have a benefit, but probably more people don't get a, wow factor. So that doesn't mean it's useless for everyone, but it also means that probably if everyone bought it, a lot of people would be disappointed. But to your point, often when someone

has got to the point where they're buying a red light mask, and most of them are not super cheap, they've also already thought about their skin care routine and maybe using products that are helpful for the skin condition. And I think there's this bias whereby if you spend a lot of money on something, you are inclined to think that that thing is the thing that's working rather than the other boring things that you're doing, like washing your face twice a day and using a retinal cream. FAP. Yeah.

Next, we have... I'm nervous. Beef tallow. Yeah, it's food. Yeah, no. No, a big old bye-bye. Yeah, that's a bye-bye. I think this is a sort of fear around, I want to say chemicals, fear around using conventional skin care.

But I just don't understand how tallow has been the thing that people want to use instead. No. So it's fine for, no, no. No. It's just a big old no. we have this is an overnight mask, overnight face mask, if you want to have a little look. Collagen night wrapping mask. Yeah. So this is going to be something that I would never use, but tell me how is it supposed to be used?

So to be put on the face and then left on overnight. I'm not a massive kind of mask type of person, mainly because I think all the things that we ought to be able to deliver to our skin, we can get through standard skin care, cleanse and moisturiser, sunscreen, serum. I think masks are a bit gimmicky. I can see the potential benefit of doing a mask for self-care. I can see that if you have a nice event coming up, you might want to use a hydrating mask or do some sort of treatment, I guess, at home treatment a night before. But actually, if you get like your kind of ordinary skin care routine working well for you, you don't really need to do all these other bits and pieces. I think collagen is quite, there's lots of hype about collagen because I think in the last five or ten years, we've had a lot more awareness about skincare. People know that collagen is an important protein in their skin,

that it makes their skin firmer, it reduces sagging and wrinkles, that it declines with age. And so there's been a big trend, one about collagen supplements. I don't know if you've got any hiding there. Yeah. You find the coming. And the other end is using collagen and skincare. But collagen and skincare doesn't really go anywhere.

It's too big to penetrate through your skin barrier. Your skin barrier is really clever and it keeps stuff out that's not supposed to go in. The best way to look after your own collagen is with sun protection. So 80% of facial aging is from UV exposure. So that's a number one threat to our collagen. The second thing to do to look after your collagen is to use something which has a retinoid in it. So retinol, retinol, retinone, and these are all different retinodes. And this is probably the best proven topical agent to boost collagen.

and then there are other things that we can do to look after our collagen like protecting our skin from pollution, making sure we have a good diet that includes enough protein. But I think this sort of thing is a bit gimmicky. Perfect. You mentioned, pop that there. You mentioned retinal, retinol and trettonowing. Do you mind explaining for the listeners what those are

and what are the key differences and who's, would be better suited to which. Yeah. So I think the way I like to think of it is, so they're all in a group called topical retinoids. Retinoids come from vitamin A to anyone who hasn't yet heard of them. And I like to divide them in my mind into over-the-counter and prescription ones. I think that's quite a good way to think about it.

So prescription ones will go by names like Tretanoan. They might be some brand names. Those are usually ones prescribed for acne. And adapoline is another type. It's also licensed for treating acne. And there are a couple of other newer ones. There's one called Eklif, which is used for treating acne. So most prescription retinoys are licensed for treating acne.

But some prescription retinodes like tretanone will also be used for supporting skin aging, healthy skin aging because they stimulate collagen in the skin and they smooth the skin. And it can also be used for treating scars in the skin for improving pigmentation. Tretanone is not available in the UK over the counter, apart from one version that comes with an antibiotic in it. So it's usually produced by compounding pharmacies. There are various subscription services where people can get hold of tretanoin. The over-the-counter ones are your retinol or retinaldehyde, which sometimes people call retinal.

And there's gran active retinoid and there's retinal palmitate. There's a whole bunch of different ones. The main ones to know about are retinol and retinal. And these are mainly used for supporting healthy skin aging. So I think you're often. hear people talking about retinol for treating acne, no. There are prescription retinoids are for treating acne. Over the counter retinoids might have some benefit for acne, but they're nowhere, they're not tested in the same way. They're nowhere near as reliable for treating acne. Over the

counter retinoids, by and large, offer supporting healthy skin aging. So that would be for smoothing the surface, helping to reduce fine lines, reducing surface roughness may help a bit with pigmentation. So that's how I divide. And the prescription ones are more potent. They may work faster. They may have a bigger magnitude of effect. But if your goal is healthy skin aging

and you're not treating a medical condition like acne, it's perfectly reasonable to use an over-the-counter retinoid. And if you use it for many, many, many years, probably it all evens out in the end. So that's how I would. that's how I tend to think of them. And are there any retinal, retinal brands that you, over-the-counter brands that you reach for? Yes.

And unfortunately, the one that springs to mind immediately is not a super affordable one, but it is a very good one. So I really like from the brand Medicaid, the crystal retinal, which, and a lot of people are aware of. And I like that because it's got retinaldehydes. It's very reliable ingredient. predominantly, as we just said, for supporting skin as we age, but retinaldehyde may have this, you know, some benefit on spots as well, as I said, not as good as a prescription, but may have some benefit. And what's really neat about is it comes in different levels,

which means that if you're new to using retinoids, or if you have had issues with tolerating retinoids in the past, or if you can't tolerate a prescription retinoid, you can start at the bottom level, which is level one, you can work your way to using that more frequently. And then if your skin tolerates it and you want to improve, I guess, the speed of your results, the magnitude of your results, you can kind of move up the ladder. So it starts at number one and I think the highest strength one is number 20.

So that's the one that I really like. Another more affordable one that I really love. And they've probably changed the name, but it's the boots protect and perfect. So it's the number seven. Yes, yeah. And they have one that's got 0.3% retinal, and it's also got a peptide complex in it. And that one is really, really nice. Peptides are also good for stimulating collagen and for hydration in the skin.

So that one is a sort of starterish-level retinoid. But again, as I said, if you used it for years, I think it would be okay. You don't always have to use the strongest thing to get the benefit. and the peptide component and it is very nice. And that tends to be very well tolerated. So there are some of my patients I put onto that one years ago and they still continue using it and love it. And it also works really nicely for neck and chest.

Oh, lovely. Yeah. With retinol in retinels, there's a lot of conversation around the stability of them. Could you explain what's meant by that and maybe what to look out for for people who are choosing products? I think the main thing to be aware of there is that they can be less stable after exposure to sunlight.

So one of the things that people who use retinal will probably be aware of, or want to use it, will probably be aware of, is that you're told to apply it in the evenings most of the time. And everyone will sort of say, oh, it's because it makes your skin more sensitive to the sun. And that's part of it. Retinoids can make the skin more sensitive to the sun. but the second part of it is that they can break down or they can become less effective if they're applied and then you expose your skin to the sun.

So that's another reason why typically we would apply it at nighttime and then put sunscreen on the following morning. I think that's really the most important thing people need to know about the stability of the product itself. There are some retinoids that are designed to be morning and evening. And if your product says it on a label, then it's fine to do it. If it doesn't, you assume that it should go on at night time. And you should store it according to package instructions. And then there are some tips about how to introduce it to, you know, reduce irritation and the dreaded purge if you have spots.

But those, I think, are the main things for people to know about. And what is the dreaded purge, if you don't mind explaining that as well? So purging is this term that people use. And I think it is a really good descriptive term. So it's what happens when you have lots of spots under the surface of the skin. People often call this texture or they'll tell me I've got texture or bumps. And there's a sort of clogged paws under the surface. And what happens when you start to use a retinoid is it speeds up the renewal of your skin cells.

So your sort of old, mature, dull, dead skin cells from the surface get flaked off and new fresh ones come from the bottom. and when you start to use a retinoid, you speed up this cell cycle. So you get rid of these dead skin cells faster and you get the new baby fresh skin underneath. But in doing this, if you have lots of these clogged pores, everything kind of moves up to the surface in a kind of accelerated way. And that can mean that you can suddenly develop a whole bunch of breakouts as a kind of means to an end. So it comes all up to the surface and then everything. can clear away, but most people are not going to feel very happy if they have a massive flare up and then have to wait for that to settle down again. And that's what we call purging. So the best

thing to do is if you have a lot of these under the skin spots, which are technically known as comidones, then the best thing to do is to introduce the retinoy gradually. So that might look like two nights a week for the first couple of weeks, or turn at nights for a couple of weeks, and then increasing it more than that if your skin is calm. and happy. And that is probably the best thing you can do to reduce this purge. And a lot of people won't even get started in the first place with a retinoid because they're worried about the purge happening. And that doesn't make sense because actually retinoids are the very best topical treatment you can put on your skin if you have acne. In almost all cases, of course,

there'll be some exceptions. So not to get started is a mistake. Getting started and doing it slowly and gradually is definitely the best way around. Retinoids just seem like a really, really great product. I will get back to the buy or buy by section, but is there any one who you would not recommend to use retinoids? Yep. So if you are trying to get pregnant or pregnant, then you shouldn't use retinoids.

That's really the main one. If you are someone who has a very sensitive skill, So let's say that you maybe are someone who has grown up with eczema, you get eczema on your face, or you have rosacea, which is a fairly common inflammatory skin condition characterized by redness, flushing pimples, or, you know, different variations of these things. Those are conditions where the skin barrier is already weakened and the skin is much more sensitive. and because retinoids can be irritating, actually I didn't mention that already, but because they can be irritating, then these people with these skin types

may not tolerate a retinoid very well. Indeed, it might even make their skin more red, sensitive, dry, etc. So it's not to say that someone with ex-maralization could never use a retinoid, but you want to have the skin condition really well controlled first. Do you want to have a really good, gentle skin care routine and you want to start with a low-strength retinoid and build it up gradually because there is a sweet spot.

Nice. I think those would be the main reasons to avoid a retinoid. Perfect. I'll get back to the bio-bye section now. Next. Just Korean skincare in general. Not necessarily this product, but there's been a massive rise in Korean skincare. So Korean skincare.

Yeah, I really like Korean skincare. Yeah, so that's buy. Wonderful. The focus is often on hydration. And that's important. So I think we can owe it to the Koreans and I think maybe the Japanese also for giving us this awareness of looking after our skin barrier, building layers of moisture. So there are, I think it would be impossible to say every Korean skincare product is great. But in general, I think a lot of.

of the Korean products that I've tried are very good. I suppose one warning would be sometimes too much of a good thing is a bad thing. And I think there sometimes is a tendency to layer 10 different skincare products. And, you know, I think one criticism or hesitation I'd have about that is the more different things you do, firstly, the more costs and you don't always need all of the stuff. And secondly, the higher the risk of causing irritation. Because if you use too many different things at once your skin, you can start to have, you know, it's the whole too much of a good thing is a bad thing. You know, skin can start to get irritated. But I like, you know, gentle cleanser or makeup remover, hydrating serums, thinking about moisturiser. And some of their

sunscreens are great, like very, very cosmetically elegant. Nice. I just think. I just think, back to when I was first struggling with acne and there was a real emphasis on quite like, well, I personally, I used very harsh treatments and I had this almost perception that I just needed to really dry my skin out to stop there being spots and I look back and I think, God, my poor skin barrier and, you know, I think you're right with this focus on hydration. It's been quite good for me personally when I look back at all. all the stripping ingredients I use. Yeah, it all works a lot better.

I think that one of the things you see quite a lot, particularly when people are trying to self-manage, is they will have an idea, because people are very clued up about skincare, but don't always know how to put everything together for the best. So people might know that using a retinoid cream is a good idea for acne or benzoporoxid is good, and then pair that with a salicylic acid cleanser

and a salicylic acid toner and an oil-free moisturiser and a matifying sunscreen. And then suddenly every whole, thing there is to try and dry your skin out and then it becomes too much. And actually what works a lot better, you're smiling, so this sounds familiar. Yeah. So what tends to work better is I say like we let the prescription or the active that we're choosing here be the hero and everything else is the supporting act. It has to be gentle. So if you use a gentle cleanser, a nice non-poor blocking moisturiser, non-poor blocking

sunscreen, maybe a hydrating serum or like a gentle anti-discolving. Celeration serum and then your sort of treatment steps, which might be a retinoid or might be azaleic acid or might be benzodiaic acid, or might be benzoporoxide, then that works a lot better together. That literally sounds like my skincare routine when I was 18 years old. I mean, the one that you were referring to, the salicylic acid cleanser, the salicylic acid serum. Yeah, so that's really helpful advice. Next. SbF 50. Yeah.

shouldn't be controversial so buy yeah so is the question Faye whether people should be wearing sunscreen or whether or not well I think there's been

I've seen a couple you know sometimes I fall onto the wrong side of social media the side of social media I'm not used to and I've seen some conspiracy-esque videos about the SBF the hype around SBF so yeah any any advice you can give us on SBF, clear it up.

Yeah. So, yeah, I think it's really clear that the sun can do lots of wonderful things for us, but also there are some risks associated with sun exposure. In the UK, we don't get a lot of sun at this time of year. So we're now sitting here on the December, isn't it? Right. But between March and September, our UV level. are higher and there is

sufficient exposure at ground level that we can put ourselves at risk of sun damage and skin cancer. We also know that UV exposure will age the skin faster and the characteristic hallmarks of skin aging.

So when we think about skin aging, what we're talking about is lines and wrinkles and age spots, so brown spots. So the sun will do that to her. And the sun can also aggravate a number of skin conditions. We mentioned rosacea before, so sunlight can aggravate that. And then there are some rarer things where people need to avoid the sun.

For example, they've had an organ transplant or something like that, and they're at higher risk of skin cancer. I think it's pretty clear. In fact, it's a no-brainer, really, that it is sensible to protect your skin in the sun, especially between March and September when you're in the UK. and if you're abroad, it might be at other times of the year as well to reduce those risks to your skin. And that sunscreen is part of the toolkit. It's not the whole shebang.

So it's wearing a hat. It's protecting your skin with clothing. But we can't always be covered top to toe all the time and that's where sunscreen comes in. So it's to protect the bits of exposed skin when the UV levels are high enough to cause damage to the skin. and you would want to use an SPF 30 or higher. That's what the British Association of Dermatologists recommend. And ideally a broad spectrum product, which means it will protect your skin from ultraviolet A,

which penetrates deeper in the skin, and ultraviolet B, which causes sunburn. So I think that's pretty straightforward. I really like those long sleeve UPF 50 tops. Like we were on holiday last summer in Italy and on a boat, and it doesn't matter how much. much sunscreen you apply, you just can't keep on top of it. Plus you get sticky and all of that. So, you know, so there's those sunglasses, et cetera. So it's the, it's the whole thing.

I think where it's a little bit, where there is a grey area, and I think that it's a big debate in the, in the scientific community at the moment, and even amongst dermatologists about wearing sunscreen in autumn and winter. The Australians, a few years ago, created more nuanced guidelines. where they looked at different times of year and they looked at different skin types and they gave bespoke advice in different situations for what sort of sunscreen you might use and where sunscreen might not be necessary.

We have much more blanket rules here which I think a lot of the sort of problem people have as sunscreen is the sort of blanket advice. So it's not absolutely obvious that every single person should be wearing sunscreen even on the 1st of January in the UK. But from March till September, I think it's a no-brainer. Perfect. That's, I, I must admit, I've got quite a big box of SPFs because I like, I love my SPF and then brands will send quite a few. So I feel I get to try quite a lot of them. But I must say that has gone

underneath my bed at the moment. It's not being used because it's a little bit, it's, we're not getting as much as soon so that makes me feel a bit more reassured. Well I had a had a lady who was with me in clinic today and she was saying every time I wear sunscreen my skin breaks out more and so she was getting herself in a pickle about how to incorporate the sunscreen now and I said to her listen we are in December we have time to control the skin condition use the skincare that you need to use at the moment and then hopefully everything's calm enough and then you can reincorporate the sunscreen in March when you really need it and your skin will feel better than And the reason I'm telling you that is because I could have just been dogmatic and said,

you must use sunscreen every single day of the year. And then the poor woman would have gone home. Her skin's irritated. She knows that putting more things on her skin tends to irritated and she wouldn't have felt any better. And I think we sometimes just have to be a bit pragmatic and be like it's really low risk of there being any issue with sun damage at this time of year. The benefits, even for skin aging are marginal at this time of year. So why might you wear sunscreen in winter?

If you are someone who has a very suppressed immune system and your dermatologist or your doctor has told you to, if you are really dedicated to slowing signs of skin aging, even if the benefits are really tiny at this time of year, yes. If you're someone who's got pigmentary skin conditions, again, the risk of those flaring up at this time of you are very low, but you may decide on balance if, if your pigmentation is very hard to mention that you just use your sunscreen all year around. Perfect. You mentioned earlier about non-poor blocking sunscreens. Are there any that you recommend to patients who maybe have, who are acne prone?

So specific brands. Yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah. Or even just what to look out for on packaging. Yeah, all brands as well. Yeah. So things to look out on the packaging are look for the words non-commodogenic. it means technically won't block your pores.

If someone puts it on their product, it means that they're kind of making themselves accountable. So I think there's, you know, people will, will sometimes say non-commodogenic doesn't mean anything has tested on animals, not on humans, and various other things. But I think if someone is saying non-commodogenic on their product, it means they've at least thought about it. And you certainly wouldn't want to sell your,

product to a bunch of people with acne saying that it was non-commodogenic and then it made their breakouts worse. So I think non-commodogenic is something to look out for on package labels. Oil-free, that can sometimes be helpful as well. And if it says suitable for acne-prone skin, then that also get this. So those are the sorts of things I look out for on the package. But in terms of the sunscreen product itself, otherwise what you basically want is SPF 30 or higher. I wouldn't rely on sun protection and a makeup product to be a proper sunscreen because we just don't apply enough makeup for that to be the case. And you want good broad spectrum coverage, meaning that you'd see the UVA logo, the SPF numbers, the UVB protection. And if it says

visible light protection as well, or high energy visible light protection, extra ticks, because visible lights, that's what you see when it's sunny, can also have an impact. on things like pigmentation, etc. So those are what you'd be looking for. In terms of brands I like, you were holding up a La Roche-Posei one there before. They do really nice sunscreens for acne-prone skin. A lot of the French farmer brands do. So I then do nice sunscreens.

I think the La Roche Pozai. What else? We were mentioning Korean skincare before. So Beauty of Joson do a really nice SPF-50. and actually one that I really love myself is a Garnier one. It's a vitamin C, SPF-15, and it's got a bit of tinting and it's quite glowy. And that I will use, like, as a tinted moisturiser.

That's when I said. Those are some of my favourites. Lovely. Do you use the two-finger rule? Is that something you go by? Yes and no. I think it is a good rule to go by. So if you're not used to, you know, knowing how much sense,

to put on, I think that can be very useful. I suppose by now I kind of have a good idea of what size the blob needs to be and just put that on. But the idea is that if you do two finger strips, then that should give you enough sunscreen for your face, neck and ears to give you decent protection. We usually say something like between half and one teaspoon for face neck and ears, which is really quite a lot of product. And if people aren't used to putting that amount on, it's a good way of demonstrating that actually the quantity should be more than people are used to. It can also be helpful to just do half of that amount first, rub it in, and then do the second amount and rub it in. So one finger first and then the second.

Because if you try to slosh around two fingers worth of sunscreen all over your face, sometimes it gets a bit messy. But if you do it one at a time, it builds up better. And you might also reduce that bawling up or pilling if you layer it rather than putting a lot on at the same. time. I remember the first time I did my two finger rule and I was so, so shocked at how much product it was and that's a really, really helpful tip because I've also been there where I've put SBF on my face, then put my makeup on afterwards and I've had the horrible little balls. So building it up is brilliant. Two last products. I keep getting distracted. Next, hydrocoloid spot patches. Yeah. Love them. Brilliant. Okay. Fabulous. This is a quite,

a used pack, I would have these in my bag for when I had a shift because I would, if I was on shift and maybe I had like something I could feel under the skin, I would mainly put the spot patch on so I just tried to ignore it. It was covered up and I didn't think about it. But it's nice to know that I really like them. Yeah, I really like them. We've used hydrocoloids in dermatology for ages and they were used as dressings when you're sort of trying to heal wounds, leg ulcers, this sort of thing in some of the dressings. So it's the hydrocholode material which is really useful. A lot of them will say they have salicylic acid or nicenamide or microdarts or various

other kind of all singing or dancing things. I think that's all just a gimmick. I think actually it's the hydrocholode material itself that makes a difference. And they're brilliant, as you say, for preventing us from picking. But they do also help to flatten out spots faster. And I think for the pus-filled ones, it's also quite nice because, instead of picking or squeezing, often, you know, when you peel the patch off, the pus comes out as well. So I think they're really good, but very big fan.

Brilliant, fabulous. I've also seen a couple dermatologists saying that you can just, if you want a more affordable option, you can get the big ones and cut them up into small spots and that can be more affordable. But yeah, I found them just super, super handy to have in my bag on the go. They're really good. And they're getting better and better. I think there are, you know, now some brands where you can put them on and apply makeup over. it and you don't you don't see them you know very much so that's that's also quite neat um yeah but there are there are I mean loads of different brands now yeah I wish I had them when I was in

school and I had really bad acne they would have been just an absolute lifesaver no what's what's quite nice though is um that people now will kind of wear them and not feel ashamed about it because when they first became available we say oh stick it on overnight because you wouldn't want to go out with it. And then those, you know, the star ones came out, the colorful star ones. And then I, like, go to my local coffee shop and the, like, girl serving me would have, like, three stars in her face. And I'd be like, good, good for you. Yeah.

And I can make it a statement and don't be embarrassed about it. So, yeah, they are, they're super, a big fan. Times are changing. It's quite really nice. Yeah, exactly. Last one we have is a collagen supplement. So this is a, yeah, a collagen, hydrolyzed collagen peptides. So, look, there are some studies that have been done usually by the brands who sell the collagen, so there is bias there.

And they will show that often like on a skin biopsy that there is increased hydration in the skin. or that there's increase in collagen and elastin, so these proteins that make the skin firm and springy. So there is that. Sometimes the collagen supplements contain other ingredients like antioxidants, and it's not clear whether it's a collagen making a difference or the antioxidant. I think the biggest problem I have with this is that we can probably get this right sort of building blocks to boost our own collagen from the food we eat. And it becomes a kind of unnecessary extra thing to spend money on and spend time on instead of focusing on improving our diet, which is hard because we're imperfect human beings and having a great diet every day is hard.

And it's much easier just to take a scoop of something or take a supplement and just hope that that kind of corrects for everything else. But what basically happens is that these sort of peptides get broken down in your stomach and they'll shoot off into your circulation and go all over the body. They might be helpful for your joints or they might be helpful for your skin or they might be helpful for other things or they might not be helpful at all. And if you get sufficient protein in your diet, then the protein will get broken down into peptides and do the same thing.

Plus food contains uddles of other helpful chemistry. for us that can improve our gut health and our brain health and our skin health. So I think we're selling ourselves short if we're just relying on a collagen supplement. And again, a lot of people get very upset if you say this because they've spent money on it and they spent the time and they might have noticed that their skin is looking healthier. And that is fine. If it's not too expensive for you to do it and if it fits into your lifestyle and you're happy to do it, go for it. But just know that there are other better ways that you could do it. And, you know, if you are getting a diet, like a Mediterranean-style diet where you're eating oily fish, you're getting

nuts and seeds, beans and pulses, you'll, you know, and if you eat some meat, even if you don't, then you're likely be getting enough protein to do what this says it's going to do. It is the boring basics, isn't it? It is the book that everyone tells you a good diet, you know, it can't always be replaced with a supplement. Yeah. I'm going to come on to some community questions. We've had so many. Ladies, I'm going to say it. It is time to start paying more attention to your vagina. A lot of you may be familiar with the gut microbiome, but did you know that the vagina also has its own microbiome? That is home to millions of bacteria. Considering that about 75% of women will experience a vaginal microbiome imbalance in their lifetime. Most of those have never even heard of it, let alone know what to do to take care of it. This is where smart strains comes in. Amongst their range of clinically proven live bacteria, is a supplement designed specifically

to support the health of your vaginal microbiome, informed and backed by placebo-controlled clinical trials. These supplements are designed specifically to make sure that your intimate health does not go unaddressed. Head to the website which is on screen now and in the description to try it for yourself. I'm so excited that smart strains have even given you guys an exclusive code for 20% off. Just use the code, Fay 20 at checkout. Limited to one use per customer and can't be used alongside any other discounts. Someone has asked, what is everything you need to know about skin cycling, including do's and don'ts and is it real? Yeah, so it's kind of a way of saying how to

incorporate a couple of different actives into the routine without irritating your skin. I think that's basically what skin cycling is about. And so the idea, which is popularized by an American dermatologist, is this idea of using a retinoid some of the time

and exfoliating acid some of the time and doing that in a way that doesn't wreck your skin barrier. And so the proposition is something like you would use let's say glycolic acid on night one, you would use a retinoid night two, you'd have a rest night or a couple of rest

nights, and then you would repeat the same thing again. What are the pros and cons of it? I think the pros of it are it's at least taking into account looking after your skin and trying to avoid irritation, so thinking there are a couple of things that might be beneficial for my skin, suit my goals like, let's say, improving pigmentation, or, you know, supporting healthy skin aging. I'd like to get the benefit from these two different ingredients because they do slightly different things,

but I don't want to make my skin red and irritable in the course of it. So it can be a useful way of combining more than one ingredient. And I think it does work pretty well for a lot of people. I think if you have healthy skin, otherwise healthy skin and your main reason for doing this is because you want to kind of feel fine tune and, you know, make your skin glowier and what have you, then I think it's probably fine to do. I think if you're treating a skin issue, then kind of having multiple ingredients and not using any of them very regularly or not using it enough might mean you kind of miss

the mark and don't get enough of a benefit. I do also think that there's a concern about trying to incorporate too many things in the routine where sometimes it's not necessary. And I think sometimes we do just have to make a choice between two different ingredients or 15 different ingredients. We don't have to use everything just because it's available. It's so hard, even as a dermatologist, it's hard when you say, these are the things that I'm going to use and then you get sent to product. And you're like, oh, that looks very interesting. And then you kind of want to use it. So it's very hard to resist this. But my thoughts would be if, for example, you don't have a skin problem, but you're thinking about how do I support my skin as I get older to be as healthy as

possible. And I think it's very reasonable to think of these three things. One, sunscreen in the morning, particularly in spring and summer, two, an antioxidant serum. That would be like vitamin C or resveratrol or something like that to help protect your skin from pollution. And it also gives some protection against UV, which cause inflammation and can age your skin faster. So sunscreen, antioxidant serum, and then a retinoid. And if you can, can't tolerate a retinoid, then you might look at glycolic acid or lactic acid or one of the acids. And then there are also peptides, which are these ingredients, which stimulate collagen and give hydration. So there are some others, but you don't have to use glycolic acid and a

retinoid and a peptide and an eye cream and a neck cream. So we don't have to use all of those things. Sometimes when people are using a retinoid, if that's the act of they go for, we'll say actually my skin needs a bit of exfoliation. And in that situation, okay, maybe then you come to the skin cycle or you maybe just, what's even better, I think, is you use the retinoid most nights, but maybe one night a week or one night every couple of weeks, you use an exfoliating acid instead just to get that little bit of exfoliation. So it really, it depends on the person. It depends on the goals. But it is, I think skin cycling can be useful. It has its role.

but I wouldn't use it as an excuse for trying to incorporate too many things into your routine. You mentioned being pragmatic earlier. I think it's really easy to go on social media and see all these different things and forget that we all or most of us have full-time jobs and other things going on and it's like it's incredible

when you see these skincare trends online to kind of take a step back and be like, what is practical for me? Do I want to be spending however many hours, is a day on my skin or do I have other fish to fry, you know? Yeah. That and I think the other thing is we can look at other people's skin like I'm looking at yours now and it's gorgeous and you can think to yourself, oh, I want my skin to look like hers. It looks lovely. So although my skincare routine's working okay for me and although I've just spent all this money on new products recently, maybe I should be

doing what she's doing because maybe my skin would look like that. And I think what we don't know in that situation is what is that person actually doing at home, but also our skin is not their skin. So we're not all exactly the same. We might not get the same result with the thing. And I think that's one of the problems with trying to adopt these trends when they come up, when we see them on social media, is that we don't all have the same skin. Our skin is not always capable of doing the same thing as other people's skins. We might not tolerate the same products or or sort of combinations and techniques. So I think, yeah, sometimes we can end up making things worse. 100%. 100%. Yeah, everyone's skin barrier is not the same, you know, absolutely.

Another community question that we've had that I actually think ties in very nicely to what you just said is how do you know when you have too many products and what is actually recommended good? Is a cleanser, moisturiser and SBF really all we need? Excellent question. So I think that there are what I call the necessaries and the nice to haves. So the necessaries are, by the way, loosely called the necessaries are nice to have. There's always a bit of wiggle room here. But the necessaries are going to be cleanser. So it's a good idea to remove grease, dirt, makeup from your skin daily. The second thing we ought to use is moisturiser.

people who have a dry skin need moisturiser more. That's a good idea. It looks after the immune system in our skin. It looks after the microbes in our skin and helps keep our skin barrier robust. And then we need sunscreen in spring and summer on exposed skin. Those are the necessaries. In terms of the other things that you put into your skin routine, it really depends on two things,

which are what your skin problems, if you like, are or issues. So if you have spots or you have melasma or you have rosatio eczema, then that will define a set of needs. And then the second thing is what your goals are for your skin. So what you're looking to improve. And I think if you start with the cleanser, moisturiser and sunscreen, and you've got those basics right, then you will look for one or maximum two things that help to address the goals or needs. And that might be, let's say you've got, let's say you've got oily skin in some spots, for example. So we say that for acne-prone skin, which is all the way from oiliness up to, you know, cystic acne,

we might say retinoid is really the most useful thing that you can use. So we prioritize the retinoid and that would normally go in the evening routine for the reasons that we've discussed already. And we'd start with that. And then if the cleanser moisturiser, sunscreen and retinoid, is doing the trick, no need to add anything else. It might be that the retinoid on its own isn't enough, in which case maybe we would add and then a second agent that helps to support with oiliness and acne,

and maybe that would be something like salicylic acid. And then that might be used a couple times a week in the morning, for example. Or maybe the acne is under control with the retinoid at night, but there's a secondary goal which is to improve post-acne marks. then we might continue with a retinoid at night and add in a serum in the morning that's a brightening serum. So that's how I would, that's a sort of typical structure I would look at for a skin routine and that's how I would add in the actors.

And I think, you know, when things go wrong is when people are like, oh, well, this is a serum for hydration and this is a serum for discoloration and this is a toner and this is a mist, this is the eye cream, and then it starts getting out of control. And it might be fine for a week or two and people might think they've got their best skin ever and then what inevitably happens is the skin starts getting irritated. And then we get the perioral dermatitis, you know, which is basically the skin barrier is just like kaput. And so I think you can sometimes be a bit on borrowed time

if you're using 10 or 15 different ingredients. At some point your skin is like this is unnecessary. And I think it's listening to our skin as well, isn't it, getting really in tune with when we have a reaction, you know, because I was guilty of this last week, I maybe tried a couple too many skincare products in one week. And then I had a reaction to something.

And because I'd kind of piled everything in, more than my normal routine, I couldn't really... Isolate what caused it. Exactly. And I wasn't able to be in tune with my skin. I think what often happens is if someone has done this kind of experimentation,

because it is a bit like doing a science experiment on your face using all these different things. And then the skin gets irritated. If you come and see a dermatologist, what they will do is strip everything out of your routine and leave you with those necessaries, the cleanser the moisturiser, and in spring and summer the sunscreen.

And so it tells us that the simpler, the better. So happy skin barrier is one where you're using fewer products and you're focusing on moisturiser. And if you do, if you have had, a bad experience and your skin is feeling very sensitive or irritated and you want to now start to reintroduce things the best thing to do is be really selective so you know um stick to one or two actors but introduce them one at a time and so I normally say you'll introduce one first and then you give it a month or so and if things are going well you can introduce another but do it on a on a

kind of need to use a basis rather than just for the sake of it and then if your skin is stable for a really long time, you can maybe do something, you know, use of mask or something like that for a treat. But that's probably the, that's probably the safest way to do it. Now, obviously, I come at this from a perspective of a dermatologist who's used to looking after people when things go wrong and when they've overdone it. And I think a lot of people would listen to this and think, oh, boring. But, you know, I think that's where my advice comes from is seeing people when it's gone wrong and how devastating it is to then have very inflamed, red, sore, sensitive skin,

have to stop using all your nice things, have to give up on your nice goals for your skin to treat inflammation and have all the issues with confidence and self-esteem that come with having your skin inflamed. And so that's why I'm quite cautious about these things. Yeah, my skin fled up on the weekend and I knew I've got this eight hour recording day for the podcast. And I had to do exactly that. It was cleanser. I've got the serivet, the dark dark blue ointment that was just that the really nice, like,

moisturising ointment. And I was, I was really anxious because I was thinking, God, I've got to have to record all day with my skin peeling. that's not, I don't want that, you know, and my makeup's sitting really, really horribly on my skin. Yeah, it's stress, it's very, it can be very stressful and it's always like typically just before there's about to be an event or something where you're going to, you know, be on screen or going to be looked at and, you know, date or whatever it is. And then you're like, great. Yeah. That really neatly brings me on to actually a question that I hope the listeners will find really, will want to know the answer to. because it relates to skincare goals and expectations

because I think you mentioned that earlier, you know, setting a kind of idea of what you want to achieve from the skincare products. But when you look on social media and you see people without paws and without any wrinkles on their face, it can be really easy to have a skincare goal that maybe is not realistic.

How would you recommend listeners maybe navigate social media and some of those unrealistic expectations. Delete it. Fair, fair enough. It's really difficult. I think we have to remember that a lot of what we see isn't real. But, Faye, I don't think I have the answer to this actually

because I think it is really hard. You know, I think as I'm talking to you today and I was sitting in clinic earlier speaking to a teenage girl And I was thinking the culture we're surrounded in is skincare has become entertainment. It's something we talk about with each other. We compare notes. People post their skincare. I think probably 30 years ago, the idea that you would sort of tell your whole street about what your nighttime skin care routine was just wouldn't happen.

So we're all kind of really immersed in it. So we're invested in what our skin care is and whether it's working or not. There's a lot more focus on our appearance and comparing ourselves to other people. This, of course, always existed. People would look at magazines or look at other people. They admired and want to, you know, want to emulate them. But we're now kind of having it thrust in our faces all the time. We're on remote calls.

And, you know, it was well documented during COVID that people seeing their faces on video calls more made them, you know, turned to having more plastic surgery. and this sort of thing. So yeah, it's very hard. And I think cosmetic treatments, of course, have become cheaper, more easily available as well. So there's been increased uptake in those. So we're kind of seeing this all around us

and it's very hard to avoid. So I think there's got to be something said about reducing how we compare ourselves to others, reducing pressure on ourselves and being more realistic. But I honestly, I think it's a societal issue and I'm not quite sure how we solve it. I think we really need to work on confidence building and self-esteem and reducing perfectionism and celebrating uniqueness. I think it's something really, it was my anniversary last night and my husband and I went out for a drink and there was this girl sitting at the bar and she had had had so much. work done that I thought she probably individually her lips are probably lovely lips her cheeks

are lovely cheeks her noses are lovely nose but put all together all it looked like was this person does not look like the person they started out as initially and it didn't look good and I thought that's so sad because she's done all of these things to try and make herself feel better I guess and to look better but actually it was so distracting all I could see was all the work that she'd had done And I thought, I bet she looked so much better before all of that. So, yeah, I think I'm not against treatments or tweakments or skincare. I definitely work in this world. And I do some treatments and I do them for people as well.

But I think we got carried away. So, yeah, I think something about feeling better about ourselves and not trying to fit a mold. if I may say one more thing, it's a bit like, I don't know if you've noticed in the past decade or so that since Instagram, it doesn't matter where you go in the world and stay in an Airbnb. Everywhere has the same decor.

Yes. Everything looks the same. Places use their like unique, sorry, lose their unique value. You can be sitting in a restaurant in Portugal or London or New York City and it looks like the interior design is the same. because it's what's popular on social. And I think it's become a little bit the same with faces.

We need, you know, we need to be able to kind of see quirks again and not, we don't all want to have the same kind of puffy lips and, yeah. Yeah, I sometimes look at it from the point of drawing that line between when are you trying to cover up, like mask your natural features versus like enhance them, you know, like, and it is. a really, really grey area to find, to notice in yourself. Like I started getting lip filler when I was cheated on, but then the girl that this man, this boy, sorry, boy cheated on me with, had a lot of lip filler. So then I went and I got lip filler. And that was not a good decision

because that came from a place of insecurity. And instead of taking a step back and dealing with that insecurity, I tried to mask over it with a treatment. And that must be really. And that must be difficult for you in this like industry because it's, I'd imagine there is a huge psychological component that comes with that. Yeah. You know, is, it's really, really difficult to navigate. There is. And I think there is something about wanting to make ourselves feel better. I mean, like the classic thing has always been like, you know, someone's relationship ends and they go and like have a dramatic haircut or, you know, dye their hair a different colour. So I think you shouldn't beat yourself up. There's definitely precedent. It's sort of,

of doing these sort of transformative things. But I think it's right. It's because when we're feeling bad, we want to do something that can make ourselves feel better. And to improve how you feel emotionally is hard. It takes work. And sometimes there'll be a little thing that you can do in the short term that boost your confidence or your self-esteem

or makes you feel better or even just makes you feel like you're doing something that gives a bit of relief. The problem, I guess, is when that's, thing is not the solution of itself and then you still don't feel great after a little while and then you keep trying to chase that relief or, you know, that thing that makes you feel better and you don't quite ever get there. So, you know, I think if we could all have therapists, that would be great. That would be great. But sometimes, yeah, sometimes we don't have access to it or sometimes it doesn't feel like the right thing. But yeah, I, yeah, it.

I think my general feeling on this is that we should try not to compare ourselves to each other, but it is definitely easier said than done. 100%. I'm going to come on to our section called Real or Real, as in Instagram Real, and I'd love to know your thoughts on a video that we're going to show you. But first, I've got one more question, and that is, did you see the face masks for children? And what were your thoughts on that?

it went down like a what's the word ton of lead bricks or whatever lead balloon whatever they're saying is I feel like that was really ill judged no I don't think children should be wearing face masks

children should be like eating mud and you know playing and not having to think about their appearance um children's skin is also much more delicate.

So the fewer things that we put on kids skin, the better. Like, they just need a gentle body wash. They need moisturiser. They need gentle kids, you know, sunscreen for when they're exposed to the sun. They don't need anything else. And I worry that all this focus on skincare, you know, it's definitely now an issue for teenagers. And we definitely don't need to extend the problem. to young children. So yeah, I think I think it's a really bad idea. Yeah, I remember the first time I kind of

realized the value that is placed on your image as probably an early teenager. And that made me really sad as well to think that maybe kids who are younger than I was who might feel that their image is important at that age as well. So yeah. I think the weird thing is probably like the kids who were in the adverts where I want to say like three or four years old, they're not really going to have any idea of, I suppose those kids are too young, maybe to think about this stuff is to make me look more beautiful or what have you. But it's just unnecessary. It's unnecessary. It's just unnecessary. Yeah. Now we're on to our section, Real or Real, and I will just show you a quick video that I would love to know your thoughts on.

So, sorry, for those listening, it is a woman just, just, peeling off many, many, many layers of masks from her face. Any thoughts? I have to say, firstly, I love that creator. I follow her on Instagram and she's really funny. Nice. But this is the whole morning shed trend. Honestly, if it gives anyone pleasure, they can knock themselves out.

But it's unnecessary. And my thoughts are that it probably is really uncomfortable to sleep with all of these straps and tapes. and bonnets and things. I'm not sure how anyone breathes through all of that. So I'd say like the benefits for your skin would have to be really amazing to justify the time spent doing this. But it's basically that that is an Instagram trend.

It's like something that you can show yourself doing that you can take a video of. It's not really meant to be something that anyone is actually doing in real life. I think that's a lot of things on social media, isn't it? not really meant, doesn't really fit in with everyday life. No, exactly. The next topic that I'm going to come on to is something, I'm sure, a lot of the high achiever girlies who are listening will be very, very, very, very interested in.

And I will be as well, how do we target our dog and dry circles? Yes. The old eye circles. So there are some skincare things that you can do. and then there are some kind of procedural things that can potentially be done if you want me to talk about those and then there are also some lifestyle things that would be important. So first things first, what causes them? A lot of different things.

So dark circles can be because there's more pigmentation underneath the eye and that's more common in people who have brown or black skin. It's more common if you have eczema. So if you rub the skin there, it will get darker. it can also be genetic. So some people are more genetically prone to dark circles. The skin underneath their eyes is also really super thin. And then it's lying on top of fat and then muscle, which is purplish in colour. And the fat pad there can sometimes, or they will sort of deflate, I guess, over time.

It might slip down, which means that the skin is then lying directly over muscle and that can give a darker appearance as well. So those are some of the things that happen. We lose volume around the eyes over time as well. There is no magic cream. Don't it. There are some things that can help, though. So products that contain ingredients like vitamin C or retinal eye creams can potentially help with the under eye area of vitamin K. C.

So those are some of the niacinamide. those are some of the ingredients that you might look for in a product there. What I'd say to people who I'm looking after in the clinic is if you're using a retinal or glycolic acid or vitamin C elsewhere on your skin and you've been using it for a while and it doesn't irritate your skin, you may be able to place it under the eye area and then you don't have to go and buy separate eye cream. But if you have sensitive under eyes or if you're not used to using those other things, you know, if you don't usually use those other things near the eye area, you might need to get a separate eye cream. caffeine in eye creams can also be helpful. There are a bunch of different eye creams that contain caffeine and that can be useful. But it's a sort of kind of slow burner type thing. It's not really wow factor.

There are procedures that might be useful. There are various things like polynucleotides, is those sort of newer injectable treatment. they say that the people who make us say that it increases oxygenation of the tissues and it might help improve the dark circles. There are peals that can be used under the eye. There are other injections like PRP. So there are various other things that can be done there. But it kind of depends on what's causing your dark circles. And then getting enough sleep.

We often look more hollow, sunken and dark around the eyes if we haven't had enough. sleep and that ideally would be getting regular sleeping hours so in an ideal logic you could go to bed and wake up at roughly the same time each day and not getting dehydrated that will increase the sort of sunken dark appearance around the eyes those are the those it's the stuff that everyone really knows yeah but it's it is a tricky area to to try and improve sometimes it's a combination of all of those things that works the best So it's trying to make sure that you are getting enough sleep.

It's using one of those brightening products around the eyes. If you want, I've got one that I love that gives an immediate, there's a makeup product I love that gives immediate camouflage of the under eye area. Should I say? Yeah, go on, go on. So it's the beauty pie under eye genius illuminator, I think it's called. It's a little pot of quite a sort of sticky substance. They do it in three different shades of different skin tones.

And a little bit of that just sort of dabbed here underneath the eye after you've done your skincare. You can then put a bit of concealer on afterwards, but it really does a good job of reducing the under eye darkness. That's a good product. And then there are the procedures as well. Beautiful. That's really, really helpful.

The next community question that we've got, is all about hormonal acne linked to my cycle. Do you have any advice for it? I get a spot on my chin every month before my period and ovulation and nothing seems to work. So it's really common story. It's sort of hormone changes that happen just before the period come increase oil production and so that increases the risk of the breakouts. It depends really on how, you know, if it's one pimple, which is still very annoying, it might be a pimple panic. on it or like a salicylic acid gel or something like that. If it's several pimples and they come up every single month and I guess if they don't go away between periods as well, those would be

reasons to get on to good kind of acne treatment routine and then you're not going to be firefighting a pimple every single month. And the acne treatment routine doesn't always have to be something very extreme that people might be imagining. It might just be using some topical therapy for acne. So it might be using a retinoid cream at night or something like that. And if those things don't work, then there are also oral treatments that can be very helpful. And the ones that I like for female alal acne, which might flare up, but before the period include medicines like spiroinolactone, which will help to balance out test.

testosterone and can reduce these sort of these flare-ups. So the name of the medicine doesn't matter so much. It's more the idea that if you are kind of firefighting every single month or if you have a lot of spots, it's absolutely not making a big deal out of nothing to go and get some treatment advice and just stabilize everything down so that your skin isn't inflamed every time that you get a period. And we all have choices. Some people, you know, some people will say, well, I don't want to. to take medicine and that's absolutely fine. If you're okay with having breakouts every month

and you prefer to have to treat them one breakout at a time, be my guest. But if you prefer not to have to deal with that, then there are sometimes prescription options can make things a lot easier and that can be supported with skincare and good lifestyle advice. That's really, really helpful. I think so often as women we just minimise these symptoms as not that much to deal with, but you're so right, you know, one pimple, kind of okay, but if it's really limiting your confidence in everyday life, it's not making a big deal about that. So I love that.

Yeah, exactly. If you're spending two weeks of every month, like feeling stressed because you've got to cover up loads of spots and you're spending half an hour peeling of pimple patches in the morning because you're using 20 every night, then there are easier ways to do it. Yeah. I remember my first lecture about acne in medical school, and at the time I was struggling with my acne,

but I was really, really minimising it. And they said, the dermatologist giving the lecture said something like, and you know, if you've got seven spots or gave a number for like spots, he said that could be clustered moderate too severe acne. And I was sat there and I was thinking, I've really been making myself feel like I'm being dramatic for this impacting so much my life. But actually hearing someone verbalise, no, if you've got seven spots that are painful and you're dealing with them every month,

that is actually worth speaking to a doctor about. It's not just, you know, something cosmetic that you are being a bit of a drama queen about was really validating. Yeah, I think that it brings up a very good point, which is that levels of distress do not typically or do not always correlate with levels of acne severity as well. So we know we would expect that if someone has a face and back full of cystic acne that they would feel distressed about it. And usually they are, but sometimes not. but people there is often this strange thing we just get used to tolerating

having a lot of spots and start to feel like I don't expect that anything will be better and just waiting for it to go away in the meantime suffering and it's not unusual for people to turn up in clinic and have been dealing with breakouts for 10 or 15 years

which has been chipping away at their self-esteem and I think it's unusual that most people would put up with anything for 10 or 15. years before getting proper help for it. I absolutely know how hard it is for people, though, to get in front of a doctor who can actually help them. And that means that there is a lot of self-management going on and trying to troubleshoot

and go into the internet for help. So, you know, much as we sort of can make some jokes about people picking up tips off the internet, sometimes people do it because they feel like they've got no choice and that is the information they have available to them and that's what they will therefore try to do. but I would normally say that if you're struggling with your skin, even if objectively it's not severe, but it affects you a lot, then it is always still worth going to ask for help.

And if you get turned away, trying again, because, you know, there is always something that can be done. We're going to come on to diet and skin in just a moment. But first, I want to touch on misinformation on social media because you just mentioned, you know, it can be quite tricky to get in front of. of a doctor and people turns to the internet, what would you recommend for the listeners,

how to navigate this world of social media where everyone is a skincare expert. Are there any reliable sources that you recommend day to day? On social media, no. It's a difficult question. I think because there's so much they can get in the way, I think even doctors are advertising products these days. And it's not pointing fingers, you know, at anyone.

This is just the reality. And so it can be really hard for someone to work out what is a real recommendation and what isn't. And so I would very rarely point someone to anyone's social pages to get advice about skin. The British Association of Dermatologists has really good information leaflets about hundreds of different skin conditions, sort of indexed by the first letter. And they are really, they're really useful and available through the British Association of Dermatologists' website. They're free. And they usually are written by Dermatologists who's a specialist in that particular field. They are peer reviewed.

So others in the organisation will check that they are sensible and they're updated every few years. So that's a good way to get information about conditions and certain treatments. There's a New Zealand dermatology resource. I don't know if you've ever come across DermNet, NZ. Yeah, yeah. So it's like a sort of dermatology encyclopedia. It's got photos.

It talks about hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of different skin conditions. and there is advice about, you know, what typical features might be. This is what it looks like. Often there'll be like a differential diagnosis of what else could it be and some of the common treatment steps. So that's quite a useful place to get information about as well. I think for support, it can be useful to be on social media and there are lots of communities, I guess.

So I know that, you know, instead of feeling alone because you have a particular skin concern and you feel like you don't know anyone else with it. I think that can be quite useful. But there is sometimes a bit of, sometimes a bit of scare mongering can kind of creep into these groups as well. Like, you know, I had a bad experience with X medicine or I had a bad experience with whatever the thing might be.

And then this sort of becomes like, no one should take that medicine or no one should try that type of treatment because this might happen and what is lacking there is balance. Yeah. You know, every intervention has some risk. Doing nothing has some risk as well.

You know, for acne, in acne, for example, if you don't treat it, people can end up with permanent scars and can end up with depression and suicidal ideation. So doing nothing, also has its problems. Sometimes I see people who are so paralyzed by fear because they've read things on social media about this treatment being dangerous, et cetera,

that they end up stuck in this really horrible position for a really long time where they are not using anything that would help them. So it's tricky to navigate. So I think there are, I think, try to benefit from community online. if anything sounds too good to be true or sounds really weird it probably is I would get medical information from sites where the information is written by doctors and is properly referenced and checked and balanced and there is nothing better than getting

individual one-on-one advice from someone who can meet you, know your skin, understand your medical history, understand your preferences, and can put together a plan that works for you. Yeah, that's really, really helpful. Now coming on to diet, this is a community question. How can your diet affect your skin, especially with acne and aging? Guessing hydrating is key, but any other specific nutrients that are good. Okay.

So there are a bunch of foods that are good for our skin health in general. and then there are a couple of specific things to say for acne. So the sorts of things that are good for our skin health in general are less sugar. So that's sugary foods and sugary drinks and absolutely fine to have them as treats, but we don't want to be having multiple sugary things on a regular basis every single day. In the acne context, it can increase breakouts and that is absolutely proof. And sugary foods can also sort of make changes to our collagen as well. And so that can also have an aging impact on our skin.

So sugar is treats. Things to eat more of. So fiber. We are all obsessed with eating more protein, but most of us don't eat enough fiber. and so that's brown or whole meal bread rice and pasta that instead of the white starchy versions which basically turn to sugar quite quickly after you eat them. Then beans and pulses are the whole grains,

echinwa barley, that kind of thing. What if I've got? Fruit and veg, lots of different fruit and veg and lots of different colours of fruit and veg. And that's important for the healthy skin ageing because your colourful fruit and veg contain antioxidant chemicals and these will have a positive influence on your gut health and skin health and brain health.

But that is a good way to look after your skin as you age. And then the other thing is healthy fats. So things like extra virgin olive oil. It's also high in polyphenols, which is essentially antioxidants. And omega-3, so oily fish, salmon, sardines, mackerel, etc. they're high in omega-3 fatty acids. It has an anti-inflammatory impact on your skin. We know that inflammation is a part of skin aging.

It's also part of acne. So that would be a good thing to eat more of. Again, nuts and seeds. So flax seeds, chia seeds, walnuts, those are high in omega-3. So I would say focus on healthy fats and fibre, eating a lot of different plants, lots of different colours. You don't have to be a vegetarian. but the things to eat more are those things

and the things to have less of a sugar. Dairy is relevant if we're talking about acne. Yeah. So we know that consuming dairy, and it seems particularly milk and butter and maybe more skimmed milk than whole milk, but can have an impact on your hormones like insulin. and another one called insulin-like growth factor or IGF-1

and IGF-1 can cause your skin to be oilier and your pores to be more blocked. So there is this link that we see in the Western world between dairy and conditions like acne and in places where people don't eat very much dairy, there isn't very much acne. But the thing is that these nutrition studies are very hard, to do because to control conditions for a large enough amount of people for a long enough time

would be virtually impossible. So a lot of the studies are observational and small. But these are the signals we have for acne that dairy can potentially aggravate acne and sugar certainly can aggravate acne. A lot of people want to do a test to see if dairy does, you know, does play a role in their acne and there isn't any such test. The only way that you can work out where the dairy aggravates your acne is to look for patterns. So if you look over a period of a month or so, and if you have a dairy kind of load or a lot of dairy, do your breakouts get worse a few days after. And if they do and that happens kind of repeatedly, it's probably something in that. And then the test you would do is then go for a month where you really limit dairy.

And ideally you don't do this at the same time that you start a treatment for acne, otherwise you wouldn't know which is which. But you would see over that month or your breakouts a lot better. And if they are, that is probably the best ever. you're going to get that dairy plays a role in your acne and then you can make an intelligent decision about whether you continue to limit dairy going forward. But I think the important thing that I always say to my patients is it's not an allergy. So it doesn't mean you can never have dairy in any quantity. It's a quantity thing usually. So small amounts of dairy are probably fine, a bit of cheese or yogurt, which is full of good microbes. That's probably okay. But if your skin is

sensitive to dairy, you might be rethinking like the three latte a day habit. Yeah, our daily habits that actually probably build up over time. Fab. I've got a couple more community questions and then I'm going to come on to the question that I asked all of our guests. This is one of the interest is to hear your thoughts on. Is it possible to have permanent glass skin or is it just a result of specific products? What are your thoughts on glass skin? That it would be lovely for all of us to have it. Wouldn't that be nice? So glass skin, I think, is the result of a couple of things.

It is an even complexion. It's a smooth surface and there's something about reflectivity of the skin. And I think the ways to try and achieve that, firstly are not to expect perfection, but to try and have an even complexion means. trying to use products that brighten the skin. To try and get that kind of smoothness, then you might want to be using products like retinoid or azaleic acid, which helped it or even glycolic acid.

So these products that help to encourage exfoliation of the skin and get rid of those sort of mature, dead, kind of rough, slightly darker skin cells on the surface. You get the sort of gloria skin. And then hydration is the key to the reflectivity. So how to do it, gentle skin care products, an active like a retinoid azaleic acid or glycolic acid, and moisturising your skin really well.

And hey presto. Hey presto. If only it was that simple. And then you have to sort of sprinkle in some really good genetics. And then maybe some, you know, maybe there are some tweaks that some people do. So I think we, you know, may feel like, well, hold on I'm doing. all of those things and I don't look like her. There might be some other stuff going on,

like laser resurfacing or chemical peals or what have you, which, you know, will act in a more exaggerated way maybe than some of the over-the-counter skincare. Another question that we have got is about ex-met and severely dry, flaky, sensitive skin. So do you have any tips to help? And this individual has said that they've tried many moisturizers, but none feel moisturising enough.

Yeah. So eczema is a sort of poster child, I think, for a sort of upset skin barrier or impaired skin barrier, and that can then lead to inflammation in the skin. And so the cornerstones of managing eczema are number one emollient, so that's moisturiser to smooth the skin surface to comfort the skin and to trap water from being lost from the skin. So you might have to moisturise many times a day if you have eczema.

And it's useful to have a few different moisturizers. So like no one likes to be sticky, but sometimes having lighterweight moisturiser for during the day, then maybe a much thicker ointment at nighttime can be useful. And sometimes even sleeping with garments on over the ointment so that it doesn't, you don't get stuck to your sheath, but also it helps it to soak. in well. Using a soap substitute is important as well. Sometimes people will undo all the hard work

they do with moisturiser by then using a foamy or soapy wash and that strips a moisture out of the skin again. So using a soap substitute would be better. There are lots of like nice, creamy ones that you can use and they're not as messy as they used to be. That if you're doing like regular moisturised and you're using appropriate products and you're using appropriate quantities of the product. I suppose that's another thing to say an adult human with eczema might go through a 500 grand pot of moisturiser every week. Wow. Yeah. So if someone comes to clinic and they say, I've got, I've got Cetraben cream or whatever the cream is and I've had it for the last six weeks and it's not finished. You're like, okay, you're using six times too little moisturiser.

Wow. So you need to use a really big quantity. But if you're doing all of that and the skin is still feeling dry despite that, that can be a sign that there is inflammation in the skin that hasn't been properly addressed and that might be, you know, causing itching or scaling or redness. So if you're already being really diligent and careful with the moisturiser and your skin is still inflate, you may need extra medical treatment and there are all sorts of different types to calm inflammation in the skin and then oftentimes the moisturiser feels like it can do it. job better. Brilliant. That's super helpful. Another question relating to, we also had a lot of questions about how to get rid of marks from spots. So this community question asks how to improve,

get rid or reduce acne scarring. They also feel abandoned by my dermatologist since acne has cleared but still have some mild scars. Oh, that's, that is not uncommon, unfortunately. And that is because even though, you know, I was saying to you earlier that skin problems are not just cosmetic. And if it bothers you, it's valid to be concerned about. Our health service makes clear distinctions about what can be treated and what can't be treated. And in a public health service, it's very unlikely that acne scars or marks make the grade. And so people will often have this experience where they're actually. acne is treated and then they can't get any help with the scars and marks.

In terms of managing the marks, the first thing to say is that the spots need to be really well controlled because if the spots aren't well controlled, we continue adding to the burden on the skin and people will end up wasting time and money because if you do all these treatments for scars and then you get a new crop of spots and you get new scars, you've got to repeat the whole thing again. So it is really worth being a little bit patient, which I know is hard when people have been dealing with the problem for a long time and making sure the spots are really well controlled first. Actually, naturally what happens after that is in the sort of six or 12 months after acne is really well controlled, a lot of marks do get better on their own,

even if you did nothing. And that's because there's less inflammation in the skin. So red marks and brown marks do tend to fade. A big chunk is better, like a year after acne is controlled, but actually in some cases, the marks are still improving up to five years after someone has had their acne under control. In terms of what we can actively do to fade marks, it helps to divide marks into colour and texture. And so colour means for the red or brown marks, those are the most common colours to get.

and then texture means scars which might be indented or scars that might be lumpy. So on the discolored ones, sun protection is important because any sunshine on the skin makes any colour mark darker. Retinoids are a good bet. Azaleic acid is a good bet. And then there are other things like niacinamide or glycolic acid, vitamin C, that all of those sorts of things can help with reducing discoloration on the skin. Azaleic acid's quite a nice one. It's good for brown and red marks.

It's quite gentle. And the main thing to know is that these things chip away at the discoloration very, very, very gradually over time. So sometimes people worry that their treatment is not working because it's very slow, but it does take time. It naturally takes time. And then there are various lasers and peals and other things that can be done, microneedling can be a little bit helpful to for fading those marks in the

skin, but those things are not always needed. On texture, retinoid cream is probably the main thing that you would put on topically that might make a difference to texture if you have lumpy or indented marks, but it will have a ceiling of benefit. And when you have lost tissue because the acne has scarred the skin, it's unduly. usual that something like a retinoy cream on its own would be enough. There is, no one has to have their acne scars treated. But if they bother someone sufficiently, then it is worth getting some personalized advice about specific acne scar treatment.

And there are all sorts of things. There's laser. There are chemical peals. There's something called subsision where a little needle is poked under the surface of the skin, wiggled about and releases the scar tissue so that the depressed tissue can pop up again. And sometimes little bits of fursion. fat are injected under there to stop it sticking back down again. So there are all sorts of different things that can be done.

The important thing for people to know is that there isn't a one size for it's all approach for acne scars. And so often the best results are when a few different things are done together judiciously. And the sad thing about this is that it's expensive. And also that there are a lot of inexperienced people who don't know what they're doing when they offer treatments and someone will have a device and they've been to a marketing day where they've been sold the device and they've been told have this microneedling pen, it treats acne

scars and they will with good faith think I'm all right now I can go treat acne scars and they'll have people in their clinic and they'll do this and actually it's got no hope of really doing very much for that person's particular scars and another person it might be fine and so people can end up spending a lot of time and money going for treatments from well-meaning practitioners and not getting very much benefits. It is something where I think that we're sort of lacking in terms of having a good place where people can go to access this information that isn't a private clinic. That's it because I think that, you know, in this industry, there's a lot of people who can

practice without medical qualifications and, you know, there's also, you can do like a short course or a marketing day. do you recommend people navigate that how do how do you recommend people navigate this environment and find people who know what they're doing there are actually very few people who know what they're doing for this um i think is the answer again i'm coming at it from experience as someone who looks after people with acne all the time and i see the most pronounced acne scars so if the scars are kind of mild and shallow and if they don't

are not having a massive impact on your psychological health then I think you'd be reasonable to make sure your acne's treated use a retinoid cream at night micrneedling may be helpful to a degree if it's affecting you a lot

if the scars are very deep if they're very pronounced then I think it is something that is worth going to actually have a discussion with an expert and I think looking for someone who says their expert in acne scars probably would be a good place to start. What we do in my clinic is that we have a multidisciplinary meeting. So because my practice is predominantly looking after acne, I work with a plastic surgeon where the two of us meet once a month. We discuss cases together.

We discuss the sort of treatments that would be helpful. I can say to my patient, you know, these are the three things that we think would be helpful. This is the one to prioritize. This is how much it's going to cost. What is your budget? And we sort of work like that. And we will have like a hierarchy. But I think that is quite unusual.

And I don't have like a magic. This formula would work for that. But I say if it's mild, the retinoid and miconeedling seems reasonable. If it's more than that or if you've tried that and it hasn't worked. you're probably best of going to speak to a dermatologist who specialises in acne and acne scarring. Brilliant. We've covered so many incredible topics. There's just a couple more I want to cover just to make sure I'm really answering people's questions.

And then we'll do the last question. But another community question was about dry acne prone skin. This individual says that they've seen a lot of skincare recommended for people with oily, acne prone skin, but they feel as though they don't know what their best, what the best products are for them with dry acne prone skin. Yeah. Okay. There are a few different reasons why this could be. One could be the situation where someone has been trying to manage their spots and they're using products that are drying their skin out a bit. So that could be it. Also, our face is aren't necessarily uniform all over.

So for example, I have a very greasy nose. I'm quite confident right now that my nose will be greasy because it always is. So we can sometimes have, you know, skin that's oily in one area but drier in other areas. And then you're trying to use the same product all over the face and it doesn't suit you in some areas. So that can happen. But interestingly, all acne comes from the oil glands. So actually at some level, there is something to do with oil production, even in people's skin who feels, even in people's skin that feel. dry. Sometimes when our skin is inflamed, it can feel dry. And often when an acne spot is

settling, there'll be some peeling there as the skin settles or flaking. So what to do about it? Very gentle skin caretine. I think you were saying earlier that when you had spots, you felt like you wanted to scrub at your skin. So a lot of time when people have spots, they feel somehow that they're unclean or they just want to get rid of it until they pick their skin or they like sort of exfoliated heavily. So you want to avoid any scrubs or exfoliators on the skin like that. They increase inflammation. And you can imagine if you had a burn on your skin,

you wouldn't rub an acid on it or you wouldn't put a polish on it and scrape away at it. You would expect that that would make your skin more inflamed. The same goes with acne. Really gentle cleanser. We used to tell people not to use moisturiser if they had acne or people just wouldn't use moisturiser because they would worry it would make the acne worse.

but we understand now about skin barrier function that moisturizing the skin helps to calm the skin when there's inflammation. So moisturizing the skin, if this person isn't already doing that would be a good idea and look for products that are non-commodogenic. And then if the skin fruity is dry and they find things like a retinoid hard to tolerate, then there may be a role for something like azaleic acid, which is much less irritating than a less drying than a retinoid. Niccinamide is a nice ingredient to look out for in skincare products as well

because it will help with blemishes, but it also helps to support the skin barrier. So sometimes like a niacinamide containing serum might be quite nice to use. Nice. That brings us to the end of the podcast and the question I ask all the guests, which is Dr. Justine, what do you wish every woman knew by the time she was 25?

I'm thinking deeply, Faye. Yeah, that is a deep question. I think of something about self-esteem is, is really what I'm thinking. If I think back to myself as a young person, I was really shy. My parents were very strict. And I definitely am one of those,

or have been one of those people-pleasery type people, like high achiever at school, wanted to please everyone, wanted to fit in, didn't want to inconvenience anyone, and put a lot of pressure on myself about how I looked, about what I did, my achievements about keeping up felt like I was never as good as anyone else. And I suppose the thing I would like to have known back then that I do know now is that

it's my life and that I have more control over how my life goes than I thought I had. I have more agency that I am valuable, that I can, you know, I can, make a contribution that I don't have to be perfect and that no one else really expects me to. And that has been, you know, I'm 43 now. So that's taken a long time to learn. So I suppose maybe the thing I'd like everyone to know before they're 25 is that they don't have to believe they're in a critic and that we can be less hard on ourselves and that we're better than we think we are.

and yeah, I think that those would be my thoughts. And I think that's absolutely incredible because I know that a lot of our listeners are high achiever girlies who are very ambitious and striving to be the best they possibly can be but that really resonates with even my experience of acne where I was trying to be, you know, perfect and successful in every single area of my life. And I felt that this acne was this massive stain on the image

I was hoping to portray. to the world when actually it's okay to not be perfect all the time. It's okay to have a little bit of acne. It's okay to not have to, yeah, be this perfectionist all the time. So I think that's a lesson that I definitely think will resonate with a lot of the listeners. So Dr. Justine, that was absolutely incredible. We've covered so many different areas of dermatology. So I'm very, very grateful for you to come on, for you coming on the podcast.

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