Her Discussions by Dr Faye - The Feelings Mothers Are Afraid to Admit: Resentment, Guilt & Overwhelm

Episode Date: August 31, 2026

Are we being honest enough about motherhood?If you’re a mum, or just thinking about motherhood and wondering how much your life might change, this conversation is for you.I sat down with psychologist and mum of 3, Dr Tuesday, to have an honest conversation about the realities of motherhood, such as:🤍 What if you have a baby and hate it?🎯 #1 thing high-achievers need to let go of before motherhood🧠 The 30% parenting rule every mum should know👩‍👧 Why putting yourself last doesn’t make you a better mum📚 Why reading every parenting book WON’T prepare you for motherhood🌿 Why gentle parenting can put more pressure on mumsResources & links mentioned:Dr Tuesday’s Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/iamdrtuesday/?hl=en🔔 Join the HERd* broadcast channel here: https://www.instagram.com/channel/AbY4liwxlLnewx4H/?igsh=MWhuaXFweGtucTB3cA==📱 Find us on socials:Instagram & Tiktok - @drfayebatePodcast Instagram & Tiktok: @herdiscussionspod📩 Want to reach out?Email: [e-mail]🛑 Disclaimers:Opinions are my own. This content is for educational / entertainment purposes and not medical or financial advice.

Two and five Canadians will hear the words, you have cancer. That's why every step and dollar raised matters. On September 19th, join thousands in Toronto for the Princess Margaret Cancer Foundation Walk. Challenge yourself, friends, and family to walk 21 kilometers in support of life-saving research. Together, we can carry the fire and help create a world free from the fear of cancer. Register today at pmcfwalk.ca.ca. What if I have a baby and I hate it? I think so many of us come into motherhood

like expecting or allowing only the shiny feelings. That's not the reality of the situation. Motherhood isn't something that you can master. Dr. Tuesday is a psychologist and mum of three who is normalising the messy middle of motherhood because no woman should feel blindsided by motherhood. It's okay to say to your kids, actually I'm like maxed out.

They always say something like, I don't enjoy every moment of motherhood. But I'm so grateful. But I know I'm so lucky and I'm like, you don't need to qualify. It's unrealistic to come in and assume you'll love all of it. It's okay to make mistakes in actual fact is recommended. That you make mistakes because that's where resilience is built. Not just for you, but for your children.

Like, it's okay. You don't need to be the master of anything here. Whether you want children one day, have them already, or are simply curious about the consequences. This episode will change how you think about being a mum. Why do you think it triggers so many people when a woman, admits that their children aren't her entire identity. That's a very tough question.

But before we get into the conversation, I have an extremely important request, more important than any other request I've ever made because I do not mean to alarm you. We have been nominated for podcasts of the year. To win, I'm going to need every single one of your votes. This will take you one minute max. Really, really, really, would love it

if you clicked her discussions, on the link in the description, as if you haven't already done enough for me by listening to these episodes, but I would just so, so, so, so, so appreciate that one minute of your time to vote so that we can possibly win this award. Thank you so so much and we'll now get into the episode. So, Dr. Tuesday, we are going to come on to the emotional impact of being a mother a little bit later on and all the wonderful advice that you have to share for both mothers, but also people who see that in their future. But first, I want to go back to who Dr. Tuesday was pre-motherhood. I believe you originally planned to study medicine. So what happened? So where do I begin? It is like looking into a

previous life, a previous version of me. I basically did my A-levels with the intention that I was going to go and study medicine. So picked up all the hard sciences, biology, chemistry, you know, the works, as I'm sure you know, you've done it, and picked up psychology as my fourth, like, wildcard subject, thought, I'll drop that because I won't need that. Pretty quickly decided, actually, the medical route isn't going to be for me. Had to dissect a rat in biology, and I was like, my legs are going. I can't do this. I can't do this. And then it was like a pig's heart or something. I was like, no, this is not the route for me. But at the same time, I was falling in love with psychology. I hadn't had the opportunity to study it before.

And it just, it spoke to me on a really deep level. I was like fully hooked in, like from the very first lesson I was reeled in. So thought, okay, I'll go on and do psychology at uni again with no sense of direction really. Where is it going to take me? No idea. And it was just like things happened along the way. I ended up doing a dissertation with someone who said, like, you're really interested in this stuff. Why don't you apply to stay on and do a doctorate? I was like, okay, maybe I'll do that and then see where that takes me.

And then ended up, long story short, as a lecturer, a psychology lecturer, specialising in personality and individual differences, just really, really intrigued and really just in love with getting to know what makes a person who they are. They're like quirks and characteristics of what makes them who they are. I taught that for a few years and then had my first baby and everything, like my life as I knew it, just went turned upside down overnight. I kind of woke up, well, I had a bit of a career crisis up to that point because I got pregnant really quickly, very lucky that that happened. And hadn't had the chance to like, like you're just saying about, you know, what would I need to put in place to make it feel like it wasn't so far away or wasn't so daunting? Hadn't done that really in my head. So had this kind of internal crisis of I feel like I'm just starting my career.

and now this and like, what's going to happen? Who am I going to be? How am I going to manage this? Because the world that I was in was very like achievement oriented. I didn't see women juggling both. I saw them as lecturers. I saw them bossing it in the academic space. I didn't see or hear anything about their families.

I knew they were juggling some of them. Didn't see the realities of that. They were very much like career women, most of them. So in my head I didn't have anyone to. really turn to to see what that would look like. And then when my firstborn arrived, like on the other side of having him, like everything as I knew it, my identity, my life, my career, everything felt like it crumbled overnight. Like it just, I woke up in a body I didn't recognize. It was like I woke up in a life I didn't recognize. I looked at my career and I was like, what am I doing?

Like, that doesn't fit. Hate that. Why am I doing that? Like, there was so many parts of it. that just felt awkward. And it was like the pieces of my life were kind of scattered. And I had to somehow pull them back together, but they didn't fit in the way that they did before. And there was a lot of unscrambling and I'm picking and unpacking that had to be done. So, yeah, there was a lot. It was a very disorienting time.

But all that, it feels like it happened in a split second between me deciding, I'm not doing medicine, I'm doing psychology, doing psychology, and then waking up and being like, where am I almost? Like it was like a bit of a well wind experience. I think a lot of the audience will resonate with that because I certainly am that feeling of wait, I was 17 like two seconds ago.

Yeah, like I was 17 like two seconds ago. How am I like getting married and talking about having kids with like some of a man that I live with? Yes. Like this is weird. It's really peculiar like I'm not. Yeah, it all feels like everything happens so quickly. Life comes like you fast.

God, it does. There's a couple of points I wanted to. to pull out in what you said. The first thing is you change in your mind from medicine because it's so interesting some of the best guests we've had on this podcast. Dr. Feddy, Dr. Megan Rossi, a couple of other

brilliant, brilliant, brilliant guests who all said that they wanted to do medicine first and then they went on to be these incredible influential voices in these spaces because I think that so many high achievable women you'll put on this path, do the good girl thing, go to medical school,

be a doctor and I say that from experience. And I love being a doctor, but I just want to pull that out to anyone who's listening and thinking about their career to not just follow what you think you should be doing. Because if you are a high achiever, intelligent, ambitious, passionate woman, you will succeed in whatever field you go into.

And it doesn't have to be the field that maybe is heralded with this superiority complex, you know? So I really wanted to pull out that. The second thing I wanted to pull out was juggle it all. So you mentioned that you worked with these women who they seemed to be boss in it. Yeah. And I think the phrase juggle it all, I want to believe that women can do it all. But there's another side of that that puts so much pressure on women.

Of course it does. What would be your thoughts on that and even your experience if you're happy sharing? Well, I think, like I said, before juggle it all, the word was appear, appear to juggle it all. And I think when we think that women are juggling it all themselves, there is an appearance element to it. There's a performance element to it. There is a lot we don't see.

And I think, like coming into motherhood, I forgot the appearance bit. I didn't realize just how much had to happen behind the scenes to make juggling it all, if we're going to say that that's what's happening, possible. I think like I totally feel that tension and it's something that I mean I grapple with all the time even now because I want to be able to be all of the things. I want to be able to be the mum who's there for all three of my children in the way that they need me to be. And I want to be able to be the person that I know myself to be the one who is a creative and wants to spend get lost in her work and just deep dive into things that light.

my soul up. I want to be able to be that as well, but you can't be all the things to all the people all of the time, even yourself. You can't know that. You can't know that until you're in it, truly. There is nothing that could prepare you. Like, I think logistically speaking, you could have a sense of the cost and where you might need to give and where you might need to lean on people and what you might need to ask. But until you're in it and really understand the fact that, you know, like for me, I'm the primary parent. That means I'm the one. who's there. And that's by design. I want to be the primary parent. You know, that was really important to me coming into this. When I grew up, my mum worked tirelessly and she wasn't there because she

couldn't be there all the time. She was working two or three jobs at any given time. But I came into this like, I want to be the face at the school gates. I want to be the face watching them do whatever lessons, you know, they're into at the moment. I want to be that one who's there. But a lot's going to have to like shift and bend and move to make that happen. And so my life as I know it, my identity as I know it is going to have to shape shift here to create that. But you don't know exactly how to do that until you're in it and you're making it work. Like there is a lot, yeah, there are a lot of moving parts and pieces all the time to make

that reality possible. Like, you know, being here in London today, effectively my husband has to step into my role as the primary parent. And that means Ben. and moving and flexing from him, that luckily he's able to do. Not every husband can do that. Not every non-primary parent can do that, whether that's the mum or the dad. And again, you just, you don't know until you're in it, what it's going to cost and what

it's going to look like. Two and five Canadians will hear the words, you have cancer. That's why every step and dollar raised matters. On September 19th, joined thousands in Toronto for the Princess Margaret Candleys, Cancer Foundation Walk. Challenge yourself, friends and family to walk 21 kilometers in support of life-saving research. Together, we can carry the fire and help create a world free from the fear of cancer. Register today at pmcf walk.ca.ca.

Yeah. I would really like to take you back to the Dr. Tuesday pre-kids again. And I've heard you speak previously about how you. did a lot of preparation before having kids, like classic overachiever. You read the books, you did the classes, you had your checklists. But actually that all seems to fall apart when the children actually arrived because they're autonomous beings with their own wills. They don't fit into a nice little neat parenting book.

Is there any advice? Because I know a lot of the goolies who are listening. and also high achiever women who want to feel under control. Is there any advice you'd give to Dr. Tuesday pre-motherhood to actually genuinely prepare? I think my biggest thing would be you're supposed to learn on the job. Like I think in our professional lives, we do the learning before, right? Like we show up as masters of this, like as a doctor.

You show up as a master of the field. Like you've done the studying, you've done the work, you've been, you've had your exams, you've proven, yourself. And I think I took that into motherhood. It was like, I'm proving myself before I get here by doing all the prep and I'm going to show up as a master of this. It can't go that way. It goes the other way round. You learn on the job. Motherhood isn't something that you can master. It's something that like you learn on your feet and you get it wrong as you go and you learn through like doing. it's so very different to any other kind of area of work, if you want to call it that,

in that there is a level of prep, sure, like things like, okay, preparing for birth, definitely do that, definitely know what your rights are, definitely know what's important to you, how you feel about choices and preferences and things like that, always do that. But there is a level of, you know, there are so many things beyond your control as well. I think control is so important to high achievers. Like it was so important to me. And it's still like it's still something I really grapple with because I can be quite a rigid

person in my thinking in the way that I want things to go. I have ideas about what I want things to like how I want it to go, what I want it to look like. And control was so important to me heading into it. And things like birth, like you cannot ultimately control how that goes. Things like, you know, what temperament your baby is going to have. You cannot control how that's going to go. go. And I think even there I was like so naive heading into it because I think you absorb so much as well,

you know, all of the people who say things like if you, if you're calm, if you're calm, they'll be calm or if you, you know, you're a happy mom, happy baby. I hear that quite a lot. But there are so many parts of it you cannot control, you cannot control whether your child is necessarily happy or not, whether they're calm or content. They are who they are in so many ways. And I think one of the best phrases I heard about parenting is that you are a shepherd, not an engineer. And I was always the engineer in my world, always the engineer of whatever I was doing, how people saw me, how I was achieving, how I was showing up. Like, everything felt very engineered, right? And I tried to show up to parenthood as the engineer.

Like, right, this is how it's going to go. I'm going to do all the baby classes. I'm going to do like baby sensory. He's going to have a really enriching like experience as a baby and he's going to be really well-rounded. And he's going to be calm and content because I'm going to be calm and content. And, you know, he's going to have a really smooth like development and, you know, all of the things. All of the things. I was trying to engineer that.

I didn't realize, well, I got humbled real quick when I realized actually you don't have like. say over all this. Like, you are very much the shepherd here. And yes, like, there is a level of support and all of that that you, you know, you need to give to your child. But ultimately, you don't get to control how this goes. And that was a really hard lesson. That was a really hard lesson for someone who had spent her whole life controlling because she felt like she had to as well. So, yeah. From a psychology perspective, is there anything you think is helpful in helping people let go of control before maybe, even if they don't have these uncontrollable things like children.

Yeah, I mean, I think getting clear on why you want to control is really important. Like, for me, it was always, I felt control for me allowed me to hide in plain sight because ultimately I felt like I was never good enough to be where I was, all the time. And so I spent a lot of my life controlling and engineering and trying to like be 10 steps ahead all the time and like overthinking. And I was in so many patterns that were all around how people saw me. And I think getting clear on why control is important to you is like the key to unlocking a surrendered version where you're able to let go of those things, you know, know, you realize I am good enough or does it matter what people think about me?

There is like so many pieces and parts to unpack. Obviously it looks different for everyone. But I think getting really clear on, well, why do you feel like you need to or that you're able to control the way that someone else sees you? Like, where has that come from for you? like that's such a powerful, painful for some people as well, painful thing to unpack. Like where does that come from? Like for me, my achievement, like looking back on my achievement, what it meant to me,

where it came from, I could really trace it back to my childhood and, you know, where I learned really early to equate achievement with self-worth, achievement with attention, achievement with praise and, you know, love and affection and attention and all of the things. I learned really quick. I get praise from doing things really well. And it's like without that praise or without that achievement, I am not enough. I need achievement to be enough. So that's what I kind of carry through all the way through like, you know, late teens, early 20s, mid-20s. And then into motherhood, it was like, well, I'm only good at motherhood if I'm achieving, if I'm perfecting this. if I'm getting this right.

That's where I'm deriving my worth right now. And because you're not achieving in the way that you're used to when you become a mum, it's like suddenly your self-worth just crumbles because it's like the metric that the formula that I was applying like just work harder and you get the outcome that you want didn't work. That formula just didn't apply. The maths didn't math anymore when you got like when I became a mum. So yeah, really tough one. It's making me think about, you know, the things that I can do to prepare the on preparing

in the reading and the revision sort of way. Recently I've got really in a child work after having some of the guests on the podcast. What you just said then really helped me think about some of the things I've unlocked in some of my inner child journaling that I've really getting into recently about like these experiences that, you know, you trace these experiences back and you're like, oh, wait, so that is why I'm constantly chasing the next external validation. That is why I constantly need other people telling me that I'm smart, that I'm, whatever, that I'm ticking these boxes. And I think what you said, a lot of these inner child reflections, they'll get you to, you know, find this

key point. They'll get you to get into that real, like, mindset of being maybe you're like six or seven years old, it tends to be around that age and, you know, go through what happened, how that made you feel. But my favourite part of doing this in a child work is at the end, the prompts I've been using, you write a letter to yourself at that age and you say like what you wish you could say to them then. And I've always just found it so healing. So certain experiences, and I've said to six, seven, you know, year old Fay, your life is valued by you. not by what other people think of you. Your life is rich now at 27.

Your life is rich now because you have strong, deep relationships with people. You make phenomenal, beautiful memories with the people around you, not because you have a degree. And you say that you write these things down to your seven-year-old's self and it feels like I can feel inside me like a loop closing. And it's almost like this loop that you opened when you were five, six, six, seven years old and you didn't have the emotional capability to process things. So your mom and dad gave you praise for something that happened for doing well in school and you're like, oh, okay. And they're

maybe really busy at the time. And you're like, oh, okay, so mom and dad are really busy. The only time I get praise from them is if I do well in school. So I'm going to do really well in school. Because you don't have the emotional maturity to recognize. No. your women and dad are they're busy, they've got lives, they're trying to put food on the table and then you come back to it at later date and suddenly you're able to close this loop

with this newfound emotional maturity and I think that that's been a really, really healing process for me and what you've said, I'm thinking, right, okay, it's not about the parenting books or the parenting classes, it's about healing those parts of myself

so I can be the most healed as any healed person can be for another person, Yeah. I actually, I really love that analogy and I love the idea of like the loop being open. And it's like for me, for my whole life, the loop was open and I kept trying to fill it. Like I kept trying to fill the circle with stuff and achievement and accolades and, you know, whatever else to try and like fill it so that it became whole. But that's not how it was ever going to become whole. It was like I had to go back and revisit and really get a sense of, oh, I'm enough.

Oh, I'm enough under that. you can turn up as the whole, like the whole version of you because the loop is shut. You can't do that without the awareness first. So I think that's really powerful that you're doing that ahead of heading into parenthood. I didn't. And I learned on my feet. Like I learned on the go. Like, why am I having a hard time?

Why am I struggling? Why am I finding this like so difficult? Like trying to get results, not results, but, you know, trying to get the experience out of it that I wanted. And it wasn't like coming together. and it was like, oh, I need to go back, really, and have a good look at what's happening under here. Why am I finding this so hard? Because things aren't adding up in the way that I expected them to. Yeah.

So, yeah, powerful stuff you're doing that. It's all the guests. I swear every single guest that goes on the podcast, I'm like, I go away and something in my life changes. It's the best. Coming on to the next section, bye or bye, bye, basically I'm going to show you something. and I would like to know whether you would buy this thing or say bye-bye to it as in goodbye. There's only one rule. We love nuance.

I was going to say I'm a nuance queen. Yeah, love nuance. There's not enough nuance on social media. No, there is. There isn't. Also polarising podcasts, long form of the place where we can really get into the nitty gritty. And we have the nuance. So we're going to start off with baby tracking apps.

Oh, that's an easy bye-bye. Bye-bye. That's an easy bye-bye for me. Yeah. Because from my perspective, baby tracking apps really like, they're great. Yeah. But I found that they can really undermine your like self-trust. Like your not instinct, because I know instinct, you know, is something that some people can struggle with this idea of maternal instinct.

But it can really undermine your ability to know what your baby needs. right? Because it's not a one size fits all thing, but a lot of these baby tracking apps assume a one size fits all. And like all of my children, for instance, have been very different in very different areas. So a baby tracking app just wouldn't have like it might have worked for one, but not the other, etc. But if I was constantly relying on them, I would have questioned myself a lot more around like, do I actually know what my baby needs? Maybe it's this, you know, maybe the app knows better than I do. And it's like almost deferring to that external again, which I had done my whole life, like deferring to the external for validation and things like that. Baby tracking apps work similarly for me. You're deferring to the external and saying, I don't trust myself enough to know what my baby needs. And of course, like we don't show up as masters. Like I said, you do learn on the job. So things like sleeping, people get really worried about sleeping and feeding and things like that. And then, you know, might want to log it in a tracking app. And in some ways,

that's useful when you're sleep deprived and you have no idea what you did an hour ago or whatever it is. They can be useful. But I think relying on them to tell you what to do at what stage, that's a bye-bye from me. Nice. Nice, easy one. The good girl belief. Well, that's an easy bye-bye. That's an easy bye-bye as well. Because, well, the good girl belief, I mean, it's so damaging anyway. But in motherhood, it's damaging for all sorts of other reasons. I think we might talk about it at some point later on when we talk about other feelings in motherhood. But I think as girls, we're socialized or, you know, people who are socialized as girls, we are socialized in very particular ways or tend to have been traditionally to de-prioritize ourselves, de-prioritize our feelings, de-center ourselves from our own experiences,

and prioritize the needs of everyone else, prioritize things like keeping harmony of the group, and your kindness to other people and things like that. And, you know, there are some merits to some of it, like kindness and values like that. But there is a lot of, like, devaluing your own internal experiences, your own emotions and things like that. And I think if you go into motherhood with this good girl belief, like, I always come last, ultimately you suffer

because, yeah, motherhood is extremely intense. They ask a lot of you. If you are used to putting yourself last and then have all this extra weight put on top of you, you're only going to crumble underneath that. And like your mental health, for instance, is probably the first thing that's going to go. And we know that the mental health of the mother is inextricably linked to the mental health of her children. So that needs to be a priority. But the good girl belief would have you deprioritize your own mental health for the sake of other people.

Right. So it's a bye-bye. Two and five Canadians will hear the words you have cancer. That's why every step and dollar raised matters. On September 19th, join thousands in Toronto for the Princess Margaret Cancer Foundation Walk. Challenge yourself, friends, and family to walk 21 kilometers in support of life-saving research. Together, we can carry the fire and help create a world free from the fear of cancer. Register today at pmcfwalk.ca.ca.

So I guess that could be added to my little list of preparations actually. Like learn to put my needs first and get a couple good years practicing. Oh, absolutely. Like people use the oxygen mask analogy all the time. Like you must put your own oxygen mask on first. Like there's a reason that that happens. People might get on an airplane and think, well, why would I, in what world would I ever put my own oxygen mask on before I put that of my child on? but obviously if you pass out whilst you're putting theirs on,

you're absolutely no good to them. You need to put your oxygen mask on and then you can be of assistance to the person sitting next to you. And the same applies to motherhood. If you tend to yourself, put your oxygen mask on, you can then turn and tend to the person next to you. So that's absolutely, get used to that. Nice, get used to that one.

Natural birth pressure. Bye bye to that one as well. That's a really tough one. I wonder as well, from your perspective, on the other side, having not done that, do you very much feel this pressure? Well, so it's a big conversation now, the natural birth conversation.

And I think probably from a health perspective, I think it can be really, really, really damaging. Because do you know, Steph Ellswood, she did a wonderful video about her birth experience because she had quite a challenging birth experience. It wasn't what she wanted. She really wanted a natural birth. She didn't have a good experience.

If you're going into labour and you're feeling anxious, maybe don't watch it. But the end of the video was absolutely brilliant because she ended it by saying, but that is the way that got my daughter into the world safely. And I am so grateful for that. And even though it was quite challenging experience, she put that beautiful ending on it where, yeah, it wasn't peaceful and sunshine and rainbows. But her daughter's cord was quite short. So she wouldn't have been able to deliver her naturally and deliver her.

both of them come out, you know, in a good health. Right. You know? Sometimes I think that we can fall into this trap of, oh, well, the cavemen did it. So why can't we all, you know, women used to give birth in fields with only their community surrounding them. We didn't have doctors, we didn't have midwives,

we didn't have pain relief. And women did it. We can really, social media especially can slip into this mindset. But we need to remember that a very large proportion of women used to die giving birth. Of course, yeah. Medical interventions have meant that the mortality of women has dropped significantly. Obviously, in this country we've seen with the Ocadine Review, there's a lot we have to do.

A lot we have to improve maternity services, but medical interventions have saved lives every single day. But then saying that my personal opinion would be, oh, yeah, like, I love this natural birth experience because that is put on a pedestal as the superior. Yeah. And I suppose if you don't have, you know, birth trauma is never going to be superior. But you can have medical insventions that don't result in birth trauma.

Yeah, yeah. I mean, I think when it comes to birth, the only thing that matters is your autonomy, your sense of agency. Where do you feel that? Would it be via a natural birth? Would it be via, you know, a surgical birth? What does it mean to you to feel like you have a say in your birth? And I think so much of birth trauma happens. when we feel like things were taken out of our control and we lost our sense of agency, we lost our sense of autonomy and feeling like we were directing what happened. It felt like it happened to us rather than we were a part of what was happening.

And so I think deciding on what that looks like to you, what that means to you, it's going to be very different from person to person, whether, you know, wherever you are, a natural birth or a birth in theatre. like what does that look like to you to feel like you are the centre of your experience. So yeah, bye-bye to the pressure and just you decide what's right for you. Gentle parenting.

That's a big one, right? So this one is packed with nuance to me. So I buy the core principles that gentle parenting is based on, authoritative parenting. We know that that's the best style of parenting. for your children, having boundaries, being firm but fair, essentially, emotional attunement, being aware of your child's, like, emotional needs, seeing behaviour as communication, instead of, like, malfunction, like, they need, you know, disciplining and all of that. I buy that.

I don't buy what it's turned into, which is, like, social media has ended up portraying gentle parenting as a kind of permissive style of parenting where everything goes. And I heard someone say the other day it was like we've confused comfortable for comfort. Like it's the idea that parents won't now feel the pressure to make sure that children are comfortable at all times. Like they're happy at all times versus a more attuned style of parenting, which is make sure you provide comfort when it feels difficult. They won't like the boundaries that you set sometimes. But it's provided. like comfort in that time like I know you don't like that but you know this is where that boundary

sits that's not safe or that's not acceptable or whatever it is but also gentle parenting has missed out something really key for me which is the parent being asked to enforce this so gentle parenting asks a level of emotional regulation it requires a level of nervous system capacity it you know it asks a kind of emotional precision. Responding to every moment, meeting every moment with emotional precision, which when you are, the people we are,

who have come into parenthood with, you know, a lack of modeled behavior without any understanding, without any emotional literacy because our parents didn't have that. We came in without the language to describe what we were feeling,

why we were feeling it. We also have a very limited nervous system capacity, even more so because of the demands of modern motherhood. It basically asks us to speak a language we don't know. We don't have. It creates a very wide gap between who we are and who we feel we should be for our children. And ultimately, what that ends up leading to is burnout, emotional exhaustion, because we're not able to get there all the time. We're not able to validate every single feeling. We're not able to respond with emotional precision. We don't have the capacity to be emotionally regulated at all times in every situation.

We just don't because we are limited capacity fulfilling human beings. We're imperfect at this. We don't come in as masters like gentle parenting asks us to. Like we just cannot. And so I don't buy that side of it. I buy the, like I say, the kind of core principles underneath it because gentle parenting came in at a time where kind of developmental psychology was starting to show that the needs of children really matter and up to that point they were very much kind of de-paratized,

decented. It was like, no children need to be fed, clothed, like taking care of, the needs of the parent kind of sit front and foremost in all of this. It's like the children need to be seen and not heard. There was a lot of that. So gentle parenting was born out of this understanding that no, actually children's needs matter. Their emotional worlds matter immensely and the way that we respond to them when they are young has a lasting impact on their development, who they become, how they show up in the world. It matters, they matter. And so I really buy that about it. But it missed out the part where we didn't get that when we were children. So there was a lot of relearning, unlearning, like that had to happen to make that possible. But also

social media has just blown this up out of the water and it doesn't even resemble what it once looked like. I'm not a fan of judging other people's parenting styles but I think when anyone hears general parenting you think of probably Courtney Kardashian. Have you seen some of the clips? I don't follow along I must admit. But I think there's

certain clips where her kids are just poorly behaved, being poorly behaved and she's just not like doing anything basically and you know I don't want to judge anyone else who's you know parenting as skills especially as not a parent myself however that has become the archetype of general parenting just letting your kids do what

they want. Yeah, but it's just classic this era where everything is so polarised, where you go from one extreme where it's parents, parents, parents, parents, but they're the most important. They're the only important kids just, yeah, get on with it. And then the pendulum swings. And it's, oh, no, the kids are the leaders when we can't just acknowledge, oh, yeah, probably the emotions of the parents are important because they're human beings. And yeah, the emotions of the kids are important because they are also human beings. Yeah, it's swung too far. No, yeah. It's just literally, it's not even in the room anymore. The pendulum's gone. But I think a massive, like, thing of social media as well, downside, if you like, is that, you know, back in the day, when our parents wanted to know something about parenting, they had to physically seek out a book. They had to go to a library to find out what was happening. These days, we are literally bombarded.

I mean, your algorithm might look a bit different to mine. But mine is just like parenting expert, parenting expert, like, or mummy influencer modeling how to respond to kids in like soft lighting. and like hushed tones, it all looks very natural and perfect. And it's like, that's not the reality of the situation. And also, like, our nervous systems are like overdosed at this point on like parenting advice and information. And it's like in the moment when, you know, something's happened, our kids are doing something completely off the wall like they might be in my house. You're frazzled. No nervous system capacity left whatsoever. No like emotional regulation education to turn back on to like.

lean on. It makes the gap feel really wide between like, I know how I'm supposed to be. I know how this is supposed to look. I know what I'm supposed to do here. But actually, I just, I don't have the bandwidth to do this right now. And so you don't show up in the way that you want to. You feel like a failure. You turn to your phone and it's like, oh, well, that person makes it look really easy. What's wrong with me? And then shame starts to take root in that space. So yeah, there's a lot, There's a lot going on with this gentle parenting thing at the moment, but it's not what it once was. You've actually hit the nail on the head of probably my biggest fear when it comes to being a parent. And that arose when I was in my first year working as a doctor and every four weeks we'd have a four day stint where we were four 12 hours shifts in a row.

It was full on because you'd literally wake up, go to work, come home, go to sleep. Wake up, go to work, come home, go to sleep. There wasn't any, you know, sort of in between time. I'd come home in the evening and my poor boyfriend wouldn't get two words out of me. I needed to be put in a dark room and decompress. Because also that's while full on hours. It was a busy day. Really busy days.

And then one day I came back in or maybe like the third day. And the third day was normally the hardest because you're like, oh, I'm only halfway there. Oh gosh. And I came back in the third day and I was speaking to my senior. And she was like, oh, like my kid was so sick last night. And I looked at her and suddenly it dawned on me that people were doing it. the exact same job as me,

but they were not just going home when their wonderful partner had cooked them a meal and they could just sit in silence and decompress. They were going home to children who depended on them who had needs. And that terrified me because when my social batteries on the floor,

my emotional regulation goes out the window, I've got no nervous system capacity. The thought of having to show up for another human being at that point terrified me. And then you just say in there, you know, then you add on the expectations of, oh, you walk in the door and you can't just say, mummy's tired, please leave mummy alone. You have to, you know, do your hush tones and your perfect behaviour.

That's, yeah. But you don't. Yeah. But you don't have to do that. And I think that's where the harm can be in social media, especially because we see this performance of parenthood. That's not the same as the reality of it. it's okay to say to your kids, actually I'm like maxed out. They'll need you still. But for me, I parent very honestly, where I'm very honest with them about how I'm feeling. And I think that was

missing for me in my childhood. I just wish someone would have said how they were feeling. So I understood and I had context for their behavior because children tend to make everything about them, right? That's the connection. Like we were saying earlier, right? It's like the praise is about me and my performance and that's what I need to do. If I just started, you know, acting impatient or angry or whatever and they didn't have the context, their brains go, well, that's about me. That's something that I've done. So I'm quite clear in my explanations of, I've had a really long day, you know, a lot, I've done a lot of things. I feel really tired. Like my patience is thin. Like I over-explain, you know, in some ways to my children so that they know it's not about them. It's about me. And I have no

capacity left. Like I get like sometimes get like a pint glass or a cup of water and I sit with it and I'm like, right, well, this is what happened when I went to work today and I put some more water and this is what happened when I got stuck in traffic. And this is what happened when I needed to do something with work. And I say, look how full that cup is. Like that's everything that I'm holding right now. And that means that I haven't really got a lot of space left here. And so I'm not the most patient version of myself right now. What I need to do is get rid of some of that. And that happens when I rest, that happens when I go out for a walk or when I exercise or listen to music or have something decent to eat.

Then I have some space and then I feel like I'm more me again. And so I'm like over explaining, but I never got that context. So I only ever saw the expression of it. And I was like, something, it's something about me. It's something that I've done. And I think that's the missing piece that was for so many of us, I think, is that we attributed so much of their expressions, which no judgment on them. They didn't have the, you know, the literacy, the emotional literacy either.

But we attributed that to us. And it was like we made it mean something about us. But I try, not always, I'm imperfect. I try and make sure my kids know it's a me thing. It's not a them thing. It's a me thing. And I'm working on it. I was saying, I'm working on it.

They go, yeah, we're all learning. My middle child like to state that. We're all learning. Oh, I love that. Yeah. Because I think that when you're a kid as well, you put your parents on a pedestal. You're like, oh, my parents. know everything. My parents are, you know, these superheroes, which they are, but yeah, that can be

really damaging in a lot of ways, forgetting that they're just like humans learning for the first time. Yeah, but we thought they were inhuman. Yeah. Right. Like they were super humans. I saw my parents as that, like, just untouchables almost, right? And it's like, well, they can't be the ones making mistakes. I have to be the one. It must be me who's making the mistake. My biggest gift, I think, to my children is to just show them. I'm a limited capacity for feeling human beings. that's who I am. I'm not going to get this right every time because I'm still learning and we're all still learning and that's fine. Like you as well, that gives them permission. You be the full feeling limited capacity human being. You know, you're not going to want to do everything. You're going to

have your big feelings as well. We can come back after that because that's just who we are as humans. I think a lot of these very rigid, very scripted parenting, like idealistic parenting, you know, approaches, they don't allow any room for humaneness, like the messiness of it. But that's what I'm here for. Two and five Canadians will hear the words, you have cancer. That's why every step and dollar raised matters. On September 19th, join thousands in Toronto for the Princess Margaret Cancer Foundation walk. Challenge yourself, friends and family to walk 21 kilometers in support of life-saving research. Together, we can carry the fire. and help create a world free from the fear of cancer.

Register today at pmcf walk.ca.ca. I think that makes better kids. And I don't have any... I'm not the psychologist. I don't have any research to back that up. But surely you're exposing kids to the reality of life, that life is not perfect, life is messy. You're getting them used to how other humans' behavior

are not perfect outside of the home. Because surely if you model this perfect behavior or as close as it can, you know, can be in the home. What happens when they go outside the home and they experience the messiness of real life? Massively. There's a really big resilience building piece to all of this. And like there's some really old classic attachment parenting research done. It's quite dated at this point and based, as far as we know, on neurotypical kids.

So there's a lot of caveats to it. But that parenting research showed that in typically, like, securely attached, healthy relationships, you only really need to be attuned to your, perfectly attuned to your child, around 30% of the time. In the other 70% of the time, it's really normal for things like relationship ruptures to happen, miscommunications, miscommunications, like mismatches in what's going on. But as long as you come back and repair and provide context and reconnection, you're actually helping them build resilience, emotional resilience. And like you say, they take that forward out into the world and they learn that things aren't perfect

and that there is room to maneuver. There is like fluidity to life and that we're not always going to get what we expect and that we're all just imperfect human beings and they can recover from that because they have that resilience and they have that understanding that people make mistakes, people fall short.

You can repair, you can take accountability. And that's an important piece as well that so many of us were missing the accountability piece. It's like we're showing that for the very first time as parents, it's like we're turning around and saying, I'm really sorry, I got that wrong. I, you know, so many people I speak to didn't have that in their childhood. I didn't get it nearly enough, that accountability piece. So I think it's the messiness and the imperfection is so important for them.

And we feel a pressure to get it right and perfect for them, but that's not what they need. They don't need emotional perfection. They need a parenting relationship that's secure enough. that's responsive enough. That's like attuned enough, but not perfect. Because that's, yeah, that's not ultimately what they need or what they would benefit from. Yeah.

Final one. Posting your child online. That's a bye-bye from me. My children feature in the background of my content. I, this is just such a personal preference though. Like for me, personally, I don't feel comfortable with, showing their faces, like anything that would make them identifiable by anyone. You might see the backs of their heads.

You might see them sort of in the distant, like in the background of my pictures or videos, you'll hear them because my kids are loud and you can't, you know, not hear them. But for me, it's really important that I protect their identity, like physical identity, but also like you were saying earlier about, you know, to what extent to their stories, stay their stories, that's really important to me as well. Like, I've identified the fact, for instance, I have neurodivergent children. And it's really important to me that I tell my story as their parent, not their story as someone who's experiencing what they're experiencing. So I make sure that I don't share like their specific challenges, their specific, like what they go through, their

profiles, you know, what they've got going on. I stay in my story. And that means, protecting, you know, certain things that happen with them. I don't share all of their struggles or all of my parenting challenges, even though I know there would be parents who benefit from hearing that, because there are so many of us out here navigating the same thing. But it's so important to me to protect them as much as possible. So physically protecting them by not showing faces, but also like just from a personal story point of view, protecting them. The way that social media presents parenting is often very ideal. But by nature, it's very difficult to share the realities of parents him because like Molly May did when she said about...

Yeah, Bambi keeps biting everyone. You know, you're sharing another human beings experience and maybe when they grow up, they might not appreciate that. Regardless of how they feel about it, I don't think it's fair to share someone else's experience when they're a vulnerable person. You know, they're young. So my first question would be how do you think we approach social media in a responsible way, both as viewers and as people who may be online? That's a very tough question. And I actually don't know how to answer that in terms of how do we responsibly do it. I think it starts with the parents.

But like I say, it's such a personal thing. Like some people, like I follow other accounts who share every detail of, you know, their lives, their children's lives, you know, they're showing the nitty gritty of what's going on. Your family YouTube is sharing like toilet posse training like adjust. You see it down to the detail. So it's a really tough one to answer because for me, that's not my preference. It wouldn't be ever be my preference to do that. I think I right now I'm like right up to the mark of. where I feel comfortable is like I talk about my reality.

I offer some little bits and pieces, you know, of what I'm facing with my kids or whatever, but I never, I never want to get to a point and I won't of like, like just exposing them. But also there's a massive safety thing here in my brain anyway. I'm just like, like AI, like turning images of your children into, I cannot go there. So for me, it's an amazing. immediate no because of things like AI. I think we have to be really, really careful. But I think it has to start with the parents, but it's difficult because some parents are comfortable, right? With that. So it's like, well, I can't say how we would be more responsible because we all see it so differently. And yeah,

some people are just like, well, you know, everyone's showing their kids. So what's the harm in me showing mine? But for me, I don't see it that way. I wonder if One of, from an outsider looking in, one of the answers is speaking more to the real people in our life, like the real life experiences, whether that's your mum asking her, what were the challenges she faced, you know, our inner circles, having those conversations about the right realities of parenthood, rather than looking for the realities on social media when actually, like, social media will always be, highlight real, especially in the case of parenthood, I think some things are meant to be kept private. Yes. Some of the realities should be kept private and are we as a society losing those

conversations that happen in private, you know? I think you've just hit on something that is a really big challenge for mothers and that is the fact that we've lost our village. We've lost our physical village. So all of those conversations you've just said, you know, we don't have the opportunity to talk to our aunties and sisters and cousins and grandmothers. You know, yes, technology makes that possible. But once upon a time, you know, we all lived in close proximity to each other. And we were having those daily casual interactions about the realities of parenting. Like it wasn't just logistical support that our villages provided.

It was those interactions. It was the story sharing, the storytelling side of it. So I think where we've lost that, we do turn to social media more. and it creates a kind of virtual village and of like virtual sharing, which I totally get. And that is a part of what I do is that it's, you know, I don't tend to offer solutions as such on my page. It's more of a sharing space where I'm like putting words to things or providing language

for what we all share, but maybe don't talk about. So there is a virtual like village element to it. But I think like, yes, in an ideal world, we would have more of these. these conversations, but the way that the modern world is set up, it's unlikely that that's going to change. Even things like neighbors, like once upon a time, our neighbors, like we raised our children next door to the same people. Like we literally stayed neighbors with the same people for generations. Like my nan did, for instance, raised families together, retired together, like they stayed the

same. But even these days, neighbors change really frequently because of, you know, whatever pressures on the economy, like moving abroad. Like there are so many factors that play here. Or maybe they're moving to be with family who have had kids. Like there are so many reasons. And so I think we do lean on our online virtual villages. And in some ways we need to because we're not getting that in real life.

But I think there's a fine line between like how much you share. You need to share enough. Well, not need to, but it would be nice to share enough so that someone feels less alone, which is what I try to do. It's like I share enough so that someone seeing that feels normal or like they're less alone or whatever it is,

but not too much where I feel like I'm also sacrificing my children for the sake of someone else. Do you know what I mean? It's like there's a balance in there somewhere. Yeah. So my second question

was another one of my biggest fears for parenthood. Hit me with it. And well, that is that I have, rage in ADHD. Obviously my mum's part of the generation where like ADHD didn't exist. So my mum doesn't have ADHD but she's even more. I've got one of them. She's absolutely you know, bounced off the walls. So my mum definitely has ADHD. There's a lot of her family who clearly have ADHD. My dad, he's somewhere on there as well and we know that there's a strong genetic component when it comes to neurodivergents. And like my partner is like the calmest,

most horizontal man in the entire world. He's so, so, so, so chill. And there's a little bit of a running joke that I'm like, if our kids are like anywhere closer to him on the spectrum, we're going to have the easiest ride ever in the entire world. If they've got more of my jeans, it's going to be a challenge because I know I really took my mum for a ride. My poor mother, oh my gosh, I was like,

I was like a good girl in school. I was a bit of a devil child. I shouldn't say that to a parenting expert. But I was a handful. And maybe that's not how we should be referring to neurodivergent kids. But what would be your advice, considering the chances are I'm probably going to have a neurodivergent kid? Are there any specific point is that you'd give parents of neurodivergent kids? Oh my gosh.

It's a really tough one because neurodivergence just takes all different shapes and forms and, you know, levels of need and all of the rest of it. It was a world I didn't expect to find myself in, but I'm really grateful that I have actually. because, I mean, we knew really early from like our first born that there was something quite different. But it wasn't until like as time was gone on. It was like, oh, I'm looking at like my quirks and particularness here. I'm looking at things about me. I'm seeing that playing out.

And so it's given me like a second chance to like really get to know myself in lots of ways. I think a big part of the neurodivergent world is like advocacy and support. It is, it's exhausting on another level in terms of like getting the right support, getting people to listen to you. I had like years of just being gaslit by people like, no, like he's too young or there's, you know, it's just a boy or whatever it is. People just saying things that totally undermined what you were trying to say to them. It's just their diet. It's just like, that phrase, it's just like, like you've overlooked something.

Do you know what I mean? It really puts the blame back on you. Like, you're just not trying the right thing or you're just not getting it just what they need kind of thing. So, just so undermining, just so minimizing, just so minimizing and invalidating. And like, just makes you feel invisible a lot of the time. And I think for anyone in that world, it's just like, don't give up. Don't take no for an answer.

Just keep going until you find the answers that you need because it's so validating to have language for what you're living through. And like, we know this from the psychology research in terms of like, if you can't put words to what you're experiencing, you're going to feel more isolated. Your mental health is going to suffer. As soon as you can put language to what you're living through, you're able to feel like more connected to something.

You're going to benefit from that. And I think the more we turn parents away with concerns and we just shut them down and make them out to be dramatic or whatever it is, the more isolated they're going to feel in what they're living through. And that's definitely what I experienced. I felt really like, is it me? Like really questioning your insanity at some point.

It's like maybe it's my parenting. Maybe I'm just, not trying hard enough. I'm not getting it right. And like, you know, a lot of neurodivergent kids are really intense in their, right, really intense in their way. And are the intense kids who, you know, a lot of the textbook stuff doesn't work for, doesn't work for it. Like, you know, talk about gentle parenting. A lot of that, they just don't follow the rules. They just don't follow the rules. They need different things when it comes to regulation, attunement. attunement can look different.

You know, they need different things from you. And so a lot of the rules just don't apply to these kids. And I think for anyone in that neurodivergent world who's thinking like, I think there's something a bit different here, but I've been told no and then it's my fault. Like it's something about me. I'm probably getting it wrong. No, you're not.

Like, no, you're not. If you think that there's something going on here, keep pushing. And when you can get the words and get the language for what you're living through, the pieces are going to slot into place. doesn't mean that you'll have a solution and that it will suddenly become easier because it doesn't. Unfortunately, like, it's just a different type of parenting. Like I was listening to a parenting expert the other day talk about the fact that parenting an ADHD kid in particular is a three in one job. It's like, yeah, there are loads of layers to it.

It's not just like a show up and you do this. There's like anticipatory regulation. Like what's going to kick off? Who's going to lose it? Like what's going to happen? Especially when you've got multiple in the mix. Like, conflict. Like seekers, sensory seekers, have you got siblings?

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Oh my God, a lot of conflict. Yeah, a lot of conflict. I've really felt for my mum because my behaviour would suggest that she was not a very good pairing. But she is the most incredible pairing in the very textbook, understanding, patient, wonderful, brilliant mother but my behaviour would not necessarily

reflect that and some of my my friends' parents would always be like Faye's just a wild wild child just a wild child you know it just didn't reflect very well and my mum was like very unfair and consistent yeah yeah consistency is a huge piece but it does reflect back on the parents

and like I've had really overt judgment like direct criticisms before and it's like you know there's a level of I'm trying my best out here kind of thing. Rangling three kids, what, you know, things happen. And honestly, your threshold for what's acceptable changes as well. When you have kids who don't meet the mold, like there's a lot of picking your battles that happens because like there's a lot. It's very fragile, like all of the things hanging in the balance. So you do have to be a bit more like choosy with what you're going to, what you're going to address and what you're not going to address. And you understand behavior a bit different as well. Like, okay. Are they bouncing on that furniture because they're trying to be naughty? Or are they sensory seeking right now because they feel really dysregulated?

And they're looking for that like feedback from, you know, what's going on here kind of thing? They're not, it's not naughtiness. But when you're out in, you know, the wild world and someone catches you in a playground and sees your child doing something a bit off textbook kind of thing and then come directly to you and call you out for it, It's really, really, like, scary and really, what's the word I'm looking for? Like, it's just really disheartening because you're like, you're trying your damn best out here and you're trying all of the things. But the insinuation is you're falling short because your child is behaving outside of, you know,

the mold kind of thing. What are you not doing? What are you just, yeah, it just really gets on my nerves that so much of it is like who they are and what they need versus whether you're ticking the boxes and getting it right for them. And actually, maybe by letting that one thing slide, you are giving them what they need because they're dysregulated. And so they're doing a thing that blows off some steam. Or do you know what?

There's a lot. There's a lot going on in that picture that parents of neurotypical kids, they don't have to think about. Yeah. There are so many parts of parenting they get to put down for ages. And parents of like ADHD kids in particular who need, might need a bit more in, you know, the word of, like, regulation type thing, like monitoring their behaviours, like actively monitoring what they're doing,

is it safe? You know, are they in danger? Are they putting another child in danger right now? You're, like, listening out for what they're going to do next and then, like, trying to foresee any conflict that's going to arise and escalate because of it. Like, parents of neurotypical kids don't have to do a lot of that. It's a very different style. But you get called out for it. If I ever did anything naughty, like my mum would tell me off. full stop, no if, snowbursts.

Like she was firm, fair, consistent. She would tell me off. But I would say the biggest blessing I had with my mum in comparison to some friends I have who have ADHD, but maybe their parents don't have ADHD, is the behaviour traits that didn't necessarily, that weren't necessarily bad behaviour, just didn't fit the social norms.

We're never punished. So, like, my mum is very loud, very bubbly, very, very comfortable in who she is as a person. And I would say that I'm quite like similar in that respect because that was never shamed. Like being loud and being not always fitting into social norms and expectations was a normal in our house. Yeah.

Versus some of my friends who have ADHD but their parents didn't and actually being too loud and being too noisy. Yeah. We're punished, you know? Yeah. I'm so glad that is the way. it is because then you do harness the strengths of ADHD. And I hate when people say ADHD is a superpower,

but in so many ways it is. Like, there's no two ways about it. There are a lot of really, really, really difficult challenges with ADHD. And similar to why people think that ADHD has become trendy or whatever, because people share these strengths. Yeah, of course they do. These strengths of risk-taking, if it's put towards the right thing, not sex drugs and rock and roll guys.

But which, unfortunately, has been a lot of the things I've got in trouble for. But in the risk. taking in terms of doing things that aren't necessarily what other people expect socially, pushing those comfort zones, pushing those boundaries in a positive way, speaking my mind, being quite opinionated, all of those things have led me to a place where that's been beneficial. And that has come from having this sturdy background, sturdy parenting from my men where I feel that good sense of self. If I didn't have that, that's what.

why people with ADHD go the other way. There's a lot more I have in common with someone who is in prison and addicted to drugs, addicted to alcohol, than you would realize. Because if you take away that strong sense of self, that strong social standing, the impulsivity goes a very different direction. It does, yeah.

This has been a really big topic on my socials recently, actually, where I shared one of my parenting fears in that I have to give a lot of corrective feedback purely for safety, like more than anything. There's a lot of conflict seeking that goes on in my house. There are a lot of big, like, fights that escalate, like, physical and stuff like that. And there's a lot of, like, a lot of boundary pushing, like physically as well. And I have to step in a lot. Like, ADHD kids require more corrective feedback.

Like, the research tells us that consistently. I think by the time they reach a certain age, they've received something like, 20,000. You're nodding. You know the stat, right? They've received something like 20,000 more criticisms than a neurotypical kid. We know this about them. And we also know that they tend to suffer with things like self-esteem as they get older. Neurodivergent kids, especially ADHD kids, it's believed that partly because of the corrective feedback element, they tend to suffer when it comes to their self-worth and self-esteem. So for me as a parent, I'm like really trying to tread this very fine line where it's like I'm doing my job of safekeeping and safeguarding,

but also I'm very aware of the fact that, you know, my voice is, well, I hope it doesn't, but I'm scared that my voice is going to become their inner critic and going to be that voice that they hear telling them, not that I ever tell them they're not good enough or things like that, but I'm worried that the amount of correction I have to give, because some days it feels, like I am constantly, constantly intervening, constantly giving correction, which I think a lot of neurodivergent parents would relate to because it's like firefighting some days. And I get scared that I'm not balancing it out because they say something like for every piece of corrective feedback you have to give like, I mean for some kids, like PDA kids, you have to give like 15 pieces

of positive reinforcement or something like that. And it kind of goes back to the gentle parenting thing where it's like we only have a limited amount of capacity for that kind of thing. And if you've spent the day firefighting, it's very unlikely that you're going to be able to have capacity or bandwidth to give 15 pieces of positive reinforcement for every piece of corrective feedback. It's just, it's not realistic. Like in my world, it's not realistic anyway. And so I have this deep fear of like,

am I doing enough to like bolster who they are and how good they feel about themselves? but maybe your childhood, what I'm hearing from you, is like you had enough of, you had enough of that security and the positive reinforcement that actually the corrective, like, boundary holding and all of the other, you know, stuff that needed to happen didn't have a detrimental impact on how you felt about yourself.

That's what I'm hearing from you. Yeah. Yeah. No, no, it's fair. And actually, if, you know, if my mom hadn't told me off for staying out all night or like, you know, hissing my brother or walking out in front of a road without looking,

I'd probably be dead. Yeah. Like, I probably would be dead. I remember when I was 13, I just thought, oh, do you know what? I'm just going to drink like half a bottle of gin with my friends in the cupboard, whatever. But none of my friends drunk any,

and I was like, oh, I'll just drink it, yeah, and my mum had to peel me off the beach. Oh, God. Like in the middle of the day, and I was absolutely bollosed the next day for it, which is so, so important, but all of the ADHDism that actually weren't that harmful,

like me being probably a bit too loud, probably a bit too talkative, probably a bit too, maybe more enthusiastic than socially appropriate at times. None of them were ever criticised and I'm always like extremely grateful for that. I know my mum did a great job at parenting, an ADHD kid. Sounds like it.

I know what I would do. It just bloody terrifies me. If my child puts me through half the things I put my mum through, I just do not know how I will go. You'll be alright. I want to come on to the, resentment some women might feel around motherhood. Why do you think women feeling like they should be grateful all the time plays into that? Oh my gosh, the grateful one gets me. This is what I hear

every day. So when we think about resentment, I think a really key thing that comes up again and again is loss of autonomy in your own life. Like we've spoke about that a couple of times today, but like psychologists who studied like what we need at a psychological level to feel really well, kind of whittled it down to three things in this self-determination theory. We need things like competence, we need relatedness, and we need autonomy. And autonomy is basically that sense of like what we were saying earlier in the context of birth. You feel like you have some level of like you are the author of your own life. Like you have some sense of agency over your decisions and your choices and what your life looks like from day to day.

And I think when we become mums, we lose that sense of agency. And I know, like, for me, at various points in my life, I have felt like I had no agency whatsoever. Like, every minute in my life was accounted for, like before I even opened my eyes in the morning, every minute of my day is mapped out and belongs to someone else. It belongs to getting the kids ready for school. It belongs to, like, breastfeeding a baby.

it belongs to, you know, all of the things that aren't really, you know, I'm not in charge of, if you get what I mean. And I think for so many women, that loss of autonomy, like, over time. And it's not like an overnight thing, you feel it and then the resentment sets in. But it's like the continual, like, erosion of your sense of agency and the sense that you have a say and how your life goes and like the freedom to like move as as you want to in your own life and like someone said to me recently when you're a mom and you feel like you don't have a like you don't have control over your own time or you can't do the things that you want to do it's like needing a really good stretch but you can't stretch your legs out it's like you can't extend your legs you know like when you're on an

airplane oh god right it's the worst feeling like you're trapped in the seat and you really want to stretch your legs out, but you can't. That's what it's like sometimes. It's like you really need a good stretch, but you can't move because every square inch of your life is accounted for by someone else, like it belongs to someone. And over time, that like erosion of agency can create this fertile ground for resentment to take root. And there are other things like the invisible load that a lot of mothers end up carrying, like carrying more than you bargained for, basically. It's like we were saying earlier, you can talk through the logistics, the practicalities of being a parent. Yes, you might know who's going to be the primary parent,

who's going to give up what, etc. But I think there is a level of like the invisible load, the invisible nature of a lot of motherhood, the tiny tasks and the things that add to the mental load that you don't realize weigh in on that cognitive load that you're carrying. That just, I mean, it waters the plant of resentment. that then takes root and grows in that space where autonomy has been deprived. And, I mean, to me, every emotion is a signal. It's pointing you towards something. And resentment is so often pointing toward an unequal division of labour.

It's pointing toward a boundary crossing potentially. It might be pointing toward, you know, some sense of unfairness or injustice that you feel in your experience of motherhood. And I think that the argument that you just need to be great. grateful and all of this just further adds fuel to the flames because it's like, well, I feel like I no longer have control over my own life. Like I'm carrying way more than one person was ever supposed to. But I just need to be grateful and that's going to fix all of this. And it's just, it's so invalidating. More than anything, it's so invalidating for any mother to hear. But

it's the first thing that you hit with. It's the first thing that you hit with. Almost every time I I speak on social media about some hidden part of motherhood or some challenge, it's where you just need to be grateful for the life that you chose. Yeah, it's like, well, the presence of choice doesn't disqualify the presence of challenge. They can sit side by side. And things like gratitude can also sit side next to my resentment that can also coexist because I have a complicated human brain that's capable of that. It doesn't, like feeling resentment about.

something doesn't disqualify your gratitude. They can sit side by side. They can coexist. They can overlap. They can collide in ways that you don't quite understand. And I think that's where so many of us struggle because it's like I hate how unfair certain parts of this feel. But also I am incredibly grateful for this life.

And yes, I did choose this life like unequivocally like this is the life that I wanted. But I still feel like some parts of it are really hard and really challenge every part of me. And that's okay. They can sit side by side like that. That's okay. And I feel like those are so many of the conversations I have with mothers. It's like they always say something like I don't enjoy every moment of motherhood. But I'm so grateful.

But I know I'm so lucky. And I'm like, you don't need to qualify. You don't need to qualify your feelings by adding that in. I know you're grateful. Like I know it. It's a given. That's just, let's focus on the other bit. Yeah.

It's fine. That can sit next to it. It's fine. Yeah. It doesn't mean anything about you, your feelings, your suit. for motherhood. And I think so many of us come into motherhood, like, expecting or allowing only the shiny feelings.

And that goes back to the good girl thing, right? The good girls are only allowed to have the shiny feelings. They are, you know, they are the sweet and gentle and calm and happy, you know, go with the flow kind of characters, right? Those are the good girls. They do what they're told. And they never complain. and so we come into motherhood as the good girls and it's like well I can't have any of these

ugly feelings that seem to like contradict all of the shiny ones because then what does that say about me it like challenges everything you know who I fund it challenges everything I think I am on a really fundamental level yeah that's where a lot of like inner conflict can happen it did for me definitely I'm going to come on to some community questions that were sent in So first one, interesting and kind of relates to what we was talking about before the episode began. Will there ever be a right time? I don't think there is. I mean, I say this as someone who speaks to women every single day of the week at all different ages and stages of life.

And I just have never heard from anyone that they definitely pick the right time or they pick the wrong time. Like I literally speak to people in their late teens, 20s. like late 20s, 30s, 40s, who are having children or raising young children. And I don't see any difference. I don't hear any difference. What I hear from them is that they're all having the same human experience of motherhood. Like it's across the board. They're all grappling with these feelings.

They're all facing the same challenges. They're all, you know, feeling as grateful, but feeling as stretched in their lives. Like, I don't hear that any one of those groups are doing better, right? than the others, which would suggest to me, I don't have any stats to back this up, but it would suggest that maybe there isn't a right time, because a right time would imply that there's a level of control. Yeah.

It would, yeah, imply that there's a level of predictability and, like, mastery that happens. But I don't think that that ever, I don't think it exists. At the beginning of the podcast, I said, how it feels really weird to think, oh my God, I was 17, like two seconds, go, how is this even in my brain? How is this even, you know, something to think about, myself and my partner, we made a list of things that would make us feel more okay with that being

a possibility. And they were really practical things. And I felt, I found it actually really helpful. Like some of them would not be in a two-bed flat. Like, that's quite a practical one that would be ideal. One of them was living in a different. place for a little bit. Another one was probably living closer to our families because we both live like five, six hours away from our families. Some of them were like life experiences, like we're getting married next year, like having a big fuck off wedding. That really, really, really helped me. And then I think beyond that, that feeling of being ready in yourself, they were just like practical things. And I found that really helpful. But it is. Yeah. The actual like feeling of being ready,

I don't think you'll ever feel ready. Like I still feel 17. Yeah, exactly. I don't, yeah, because I think we all feel a certain age. Like, in my head, I'm still 19. And someone said to me once, it was the age you feel was the age at which something really significant happened to you. I don't know if that's a grounded theory or not.

But 19 was a pretty significant age for me. And I wonder if that's why I feel that age still. But I don't think, like, readiness. Like, you can do all the things and you can tick all the boxes like I did. You can read all the books. and you can know all of the things. But I think there is a level, well, there is unpredictability and there is a level of learning as you go.

And you cannot prepare for that in the way that you would prepare for an exam. The next community question is actually something, I'm probably a little bit embarrassed to admit, is another big fear that I have. And I don't know how this one's going to go down. But community question is, what if I have a baby and I hate it? And I think that,

especially the, a world where motherhood more than ever in the era of tradwives is idealised and put on a pedestal. This idea that you can't just tap out, you can't return this living, breathing thing, if you hate it.

Did you see Chapel Rowan came out and she came out and she said she's not doing it because a lot of her friends who've done it, they really, really like hate it. Very, very controversial. I understand that we'll get a lot of really strong opinions but being honest, that is something I'm worried about. Have I put motherhood in my

as this thing that I should strive for and I should attain and it's beautiful and your life is not full without it, but then actually the realities of being a mother may not actually be what I want. Yeah. So what would you say? What if I have a baby and I hate you? Do you know, this is why I think it's so important to be honest about motherhood. And every time I am, I get some level of kickback from older women particularly saying you're putting younger women off by being so brutally honest about what it's like. But I'm like, I don't see it.

that way because for me, ultimately, that wouldn't have changed my decision on whether or not to become a mum if I had known just how savage it can be at times. But for me, it would have just opened up another level of like humanity to it, like really humanized a role that I saw as very, this very idealistic like role. That's why a very rigid role that I saw in my head. And so when my life didn't fit that, like the hatred turned, I turned it on myself and it was like, what's wrong with me that I, it doesn't feel that way. And I think if I'd come into it with a more honest, grounded perspective, I would have resisted less. It wouldn't have felt like such a fight. Like, you know, all of these big ugly feelings that I talk about a lot, I was having them,

but I was fighting back against them because I was scared of what they said about me, like the not enjoying it, like hating certain parts of it. Like they were categorically unenjoyable, some parts of motherhood. They still are. And that hasn't changed. But I think I would have fought myself less if I was just like, yeah, some bits are just not going to be enjoyable. I'm not going to love every moment of this.

And that's okay. I think there would have been a leaning in that would have happened and a softening to my experience that would have happened. And by doing that, you can't let your experience. experiences kind of pass in a way that you don't. If you're resisting and you're clinging and you're fighting back, it's like, I can't let them go because what do they mean about me?

And then it like gets all wrapped up in shame and you end up hiding. And I think it's possible that you get into this and you don't love certain parts of it. It's possible you get into it and you love most parts of it. I think it's unrealistic to come in and assume you'll love all of it. Because there are some bits, I'm sorry, but when you're in the car and there's three children screaming about different things and you've got an hour still to go and you're on the motorway, you can't do anything about it. Like, I can't love that.

Yeah, I think about everything in my body is screaming. I can't love that. That is overstim central. I'm overstimulated from about 7 a.m. some days. The noise, I'm like so, I have such a small sensory capacity. but and I can't love that about it I just can't I don't care and I think like me being honest about that

also gives my kids the opportunity to be honest about things they don't enjoy because they will then equally turn around and be like I don't like that very much I'm like yeah okay fair fair I get it because I don't like certain things and that's fine but I think I got so used to like my whole life

liking or being seen to like things do you know what I mean like that good girl mentality again like just smile nod and smile and get on with it do you know what i mean and i think i came at smile and i was like i don't like i don't like a lot of this don't like a lot of this some of it's really like overstimulating some of it's really understimulating like really boring some parts of it like my mind is just like like a hamster wheel like going around like i can't i need something i don't know yeah but i think being honest about that is really important as i've gotten older i've come to really, really appreciate when other people are honest with me so much more.

Yes. And I've tried to incorporate that because I was similar, you know, people please at mentality. I was similar and I struggled with honesty. But it's taken so much work for me to learn and practice being honest. I think you're giving your kids the biggest gift in the world by curating an environment filled with honesty. Yeah. And that's, if there's one thing I've taken away from this whole episode, it's that, the beauty

in that. There's one more question I'm going to come on to you before the final question that we ask all the guests. I want to talk about emigreed because recently she made some comments on motherhood that really divided people. She did. She said that on weekends she's more of a three-hour man and focuses on quality of quantity with her children. Some people found that really honest. Others thought it was really, really bad. Why do you think it triggers so many people when a woman admits that their children aren't her entire identity? I think the emigreed thing, right? I think, what was so triggering about it for lots of people was that, I mean,

I'm not denying the quality of a quantity thing. I actually like and rate that. And we know from the research that quality is really important when it comes to, like, connecting with our kids and giving them, like, what they need. We know that quality matters. But I think what gets dismissed or, like, unspoken is the level of support that a woman, like, that has to make that reality,

a possibility that so many other women, everyday working women don't have. I'm sure they would love to be a three-hour mum at the weekends, but their lives, the structure of their lives, the level of support, the level of resource as well, just doesn't match. It's not realistic. And when a woman with that level of support turns around

and makes it sound like something that's totally achievable, I think that's incredibly triggering. And also really, like, really out of touch with the reality of, like lots of women face. It's like, of course you would love to prioritize, you know, yourself in that way. Of course you would. Who wouldn't want to prioritize themselves in that way? But it's just not realistic for lots of families.

And I think that's what gets under people's skin a lot. It's certainly what I took away from it. It's like, okay, there's a bigger piece here that no one's like picking up or no mentioning is the fact that what needs to happen to make that possible. Like I was saying earlier about, you know, women who appear to juggle it all. appear to have a balance. Well, what, what needs to happen? What's going on underneath that picture to make that happen? What allows her to be a three minute mum, oh, three minute mum, three hour mum on the weekends? What allows that to happen? And why aren't we talking about that? Yeah, I think that's

probably the toughest part. But I don't dispute the quality thing. And I don't dispute how, you know, for some women having, you know, this identity outside of being a mum is important. And like, for me, is I my creative part of me is really important part of who I am my work is who I am it's like an expression of self as it probably is for you and it's really important for me to be able to access that and if I don't have access to that part of me and my life I feel like my mothering suffers and I'm not able to show up in the way that I want to so I'm here for you know encouraging women to have that that touch point, that part of themselves that they want to keep access to. But I'm also aware of the fact that A, not everyone has the support to allow that to happen. B, sometimes mothers don't know

what that is anymore because it's changed, it's moved. The touchpoint is shifted entirely. It's not even in the building anymore. So yeah, there's a lot to unpack there. Okay, I have another question and then I'm going to come on to the last question. But I want to go back to the identity crisis that you had when you first became a mother. And in lower resource, situations, not emigreed where she likely has resources and lots of help and that enables her to hold on to her identity. What practical tips do you have for women with less resources to hold on or hold on to their identity outside of motherhood or even curates a new identity outside of motherhood? I think what helped you? Yeah. I think removing the pressure is a big one

because I think it's like we feel a pressure to keep our identity and to not forget who we are. Don't lose yourself in motherhood. That's like, you know, something that gets thrown around a lot. Like, don't lose yourself. But I think some of motherhood is losing yourself for a bit there. Some of it is a necessary reorientation. And I think that's okay. And I think taking the pressure off and allowing yourself to just be in transition for a bit and to not have it figured out,

which I spent years in a kind of transition where I didn't know who I was anymore, I didn't know what I was supposed to do, and like this time last year, I was completely lost. Like still, my eldest was six. I had a six-year-old, four-year-old and a one-year-old, and I was just like,

I don't know what I'm supposed to do. Like I feel like I've been trying to figure it out, like ever since I had my first one, I've been trying to figure it out, and I feel like I'm no closer. And I don't know what I'm supposed to, supposed to do like someone just tell me what I'm supposed to do like kind of thing because that's all I'd had my whole life is someone almost suggesting the next step and me being the achiever.

I was like, okay, I'll go after that and I'll get it. But I just felt completely untethered still. And it's only been within the last year really that I feel like, okay, I've found my footing now. I know where I'm standing. I know who I am. I know what I'm here to do. I know who I'm going to be of service to because service is such an important thing to me. I want to be of service in a way that mean something and have impact. But that's taken years to get really clear on that. And I think for a while I really felt the pressure to have it figured out. But I didn't, like it was just all a really necessary part of a really necessary

like evolution kind of thing. So allowing time is a big one. And I think for people who don't have, are, you know, the same resources, the same support systems and structures in place, I think support can be, being more realistic with yourself about what's possible. If you don't have the village, support can be what's actually achievable to me? Because I think, like, for me as well, I get so, like, ahead of myself sometimes and overestimate my capacity and what I'm able to do and achieve and like,

okay, yeah, I'll just do that. That's no problem. But actually, when I'm supportive to myself, I'm able to see, no, that's probably beyond my bandwidth right now. let's park that up for a minute. And that's me supporting myself in that way. And it doesn't require loads and loads of people to make those tiny support decisions happen. Yeah.

When I think about juggling it all, and I think that my mom was working mom, but my nana was like a third parent. I stayed at my nannas overnight once a week so that my mom could do a night shift and sleep, like, sleep the next day. So my nana was a very, very, very present. figuring in my life. Yeah, really, really wonderful. But that was what enabled my mum to still be able to work and have her own life. And I think leaning on the whatever that support may be is a really

nice, tangible. Oh yes, massively. Yeah. That's all we can do. Yeah. Time for the last question that we ask all our guests. And that is what do you wish every woman knew by the time she was 25. And the reason it's that question is because that's meant to be when your frontal lobe, you know, develops. But I feel as though the more apt question might be to ask for the end of this episode is what do you wish everyone knew before they became a mother? It's okay to make mistakes in actual fact is recommended that you make mistakes because that's where resilience is built. And not just for you, but for your children. Like, it's okay. You don't need to be the master of anything here. It's okay. And like you are enough without, you know, the labels and achievement and all

of it underneath all that you're enough and that's all that matters. So yeah, that's a brilliant answer. And this episode has been an absolute pleasure. Thank you so, so, so, so, so much. And we will leave all the details on how everyone can find you in the description. So thank you so so so much.