Her Discussions by Dr Faye - Why The $8.5 TRILLION Wellness Industry Wants You To Be Confused

Episode Date: June 1, 2026

GIVEAWAY ALERT!Sarah is kindly gifting a copy of her new book ‘Healthy Shouldn’t Be This Hard’. To enter, reshare this episode to your Instagram stories and tag us @herdiscussionspodcast. We’ll pick a winner and announce it on our stories next week 🤍What if the real problem isn't what you're eating, but what's eating you?In today’s episode, we’re joined by nutritionist and former model Sarah Ann Macklin, who retrained in nutritional science after experiencing serious health challenges during her modelling career, and now also hosts the Live Well Be Well podcast.We explore why emotional eating has nothing to do with willpower, the ‘add not subtract’ mindset that reshapes your relationship with food, and how the wellness industry intentionally keeps nutrition confusing to keep you coming back.You’ll learn:🧠 1 skill that matters more than any diet😫 Why emotional eating isn't a willpower problem (and what actually helps instead)📍 The 3 step NNN technique for emotional eating🌙 What to eat before bed to calm your mind📲 Why most nutrition advice online is confusing (and often wrong)Resources & links mentioned:‘Healthy Shouldn’t Be This Hard’ book - https://linktr.ee/HealthySBTH?utm_source=ig&utm_medium=social&utm_content=link_in_bio&fbclid=PAZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAc3J0YwZhcHBfaWQPOTM2NjE5NzQzMzkyNDU5AAGndN4t5FannHgouqEov2ydOImDMeK0d5pWyGT37cG2QFWoRfYETje4nv2Gzak_aem_uXAo6Olt18Pg1clcHb-1HgLive Well, Be Well Podcast - https://open.spotify.com/show/5JhQAqzTWR3ENNV5afJXFVSarah’s Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/sarahannmacklin/Support for anyone affected by eating disorders:-firststepsed.co.uk-beateatingdisorders.org.uk or 0808 801 0677 (England), 0808 801 0433 (Wales)Professional body for talking therapy and counselling - bacp.co.ukLinks to subscribe / follow:Apple Podcasts: ⁠https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/her-discussions-by-dr-faye/id1835829612⁠Spotify: ⁠https://open.spotify.com/show/5viLYizHD4Zy6J42iqtPRo⁠Can I ask you a BIG favour? 💙Please leave a review or rating. It helps us grow the podcast and bring you more amazing guests.Share with someone who needs this; it might help them live a happier, healthier life.Follow us on social media or join the broadcast channel to send us your questions for our guests. I'll leave the link here: ⁠https://www.instagram.com/channel/AbY4liwxlLnewx4H/?igsh=MWhuaXFweGtucTB3cA==⁠ ⁠https://www.instagram.com/channel/AbY4liwxlLnewx4H/?igsh=MWhuaXFweGtucTB3cA==⁠🛑 Disclaimers:Opinions are my own. This content is for educational / entertainment purposes and not medical or financial advice.

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free of charge. BetMGEMGEMP operates pursuant to an operating agreement with Eye Gaming, Ontario. Guess how much the wellness industry is predicted to be by next year, 2027? Surely like 7 trillion. 8.5 trillion dollars. Sarah Ann Macklin was scouted as a model at 15, but a brutal industry and a health crisis changed everything. 23 and being hospitalized, my kidney was kind of like pushing out,

and I was going into these tremors. If you did eat two portions of oily fish a week, it could really benefit your things like ADHD and dyslexia. D diets do not last more than 12 months. take the tea off diet you get dye. I never believe that we should cut. I believe we should always add. What should I not put in my shopping basket? And I'm like, can you add? 3,000 pound bonus GPs might be getting for giving these GRP ones out. Injecting a supplement is wild. 80% of people regain their weight 12 months after going off GRP1. How long after

you were hospice-lised did you turn to nutrition? Within that year. She went on to earn a first-class degree in nutrition and founded one of the UK's most important mental health non-profits. This is a story everyone needs to hear. I am terrified about but first if you could do me a huge favour and click the subscribe button or leave a five-star review. It will literally take you two seconds and it really helps us keep bringing you guests to help you live a happier, healthier life. Thank you. Hi, I'm Sarah Ann MacLay. and welcome to her discussions podcast. We've had so many community questions about nutrition and, you know, your experience working

clinically as well. Yeah. And some of the clients that you have had. But first, I would love to go back to teenage Sarah. I believe you were scouted as a model when you were 15. Tell me a little bit about her when at that age and how that has shaped your relationship with nutrition over the years. Wow. Um, 15 year old me, well, that's going back a very long time.

She was very curious. Um, very confident, I would say. Um, but like, had no idea I was going to get scouted as a model. Like, I don't want people to come in here and think that this was like my wildest dream. Like, I didn't at all think that this is going to happen to me. I was bossed at a pop show in Southampton. And like, this is back in the day when you had like Nokia 30210s, you know, I like had a phone number. but business cards were given to me

and it was like all different modeling agencies from London and it was this weird moment, right? Actually second guest. I thought they were scouting my friends and not me. So I was like, oh, you've been scouted? And they were like, no, you. And so I obviously had like complete disbelief. And then I went home and told my mum

and she told me that actually had happened two years previous as well when I was in London when I was 13. But she obviously like never told me. I had a very wonderful mother who was like education first. But I was obviously like devastating. stated, be like, how could you not tell me? I was not scelted. So anyway, I got signed just as I was 15, really, and started modelling. And I think at the beginning, it didn't really affect me, because my mum was really strict to me doing my education. And then she said, like, when you're 18,

you can decide what you want to do. But I was very lucky had some amazing shoots in those years that I was studying. And then the moment I finished my last exam, I went to London, because I was like this is a once in a lifetime thing. And I think the way that it shaped my relationship with food is now it's really hard to put yourself back like nearly 20 years because that's basically when it was. But now everyone speaks about health. Everyone has a platform. Everyone's interested in it.

People care about it. It's cool. Like it's cool to be in health. Back then it was not cool. Like no one really spoke about these things. So you kind of found bits and pieces just from trial and error. yourself or from like crazy you had about it was calories the one thing I didn't like about myself when I was growing up so I was really thin and I was I felt quite boyish in my figure and I think when

you're at school when you see people develop you're like oh I really want my bums and boobs and like to be sexy and I like didn't that wasn't what I had but it paid off in my modelling year so it was like actually the boy figure kind of worked and so I think I became more aware of my body but it was only over and like compounding time that you start to have more of a connection to like the food that you're consuming or the little food that you're consuming that has a big impact. And I think the biggest shift for me was when I went to New York. So I lived in New York and America's always five years ahead of London. And their health culture was just starting, Gwyneth Paltrow had just started goop.

So that was like the first like wellness thing. And I think when your financial success is based on what you look like, you put a lot more pressure on it as well. And also when you're surrounded by beautiful women 24-7, you know, I lived in a model apartment where three beautiful women were around me the whole time, you're watching what they're doing. You know, it's like you think about Instagram. You're watching like, what is this person doing in the day of a life of X? You're quite like, you want to know, but I was like surrounded by that the whole time. And so I would pick up on all these like, maybe not great habits, walk around health food shops, remember whole foods and being like,

right, if I spend all this money, I'm going to be really healthy. But I had like no idea what healthy was if that makes sense. There was no like good resource that I could go to or one that I connected to as an early person in my 20s, you know. It was either people from the NHS saying one thing that I was like, so far from my world that I can't connect and I don't relate or nothing or like goop. So yeah, I think I kind of struggled in that world. And I think on top of that I am definitely a perfectionist and Taipei and all those things. And so I want to always do my best. And so my best was like, what's the best diet I can have to look like X and to earn more money and to get more jobs. And so I definitely put crazy amounts of pressure. But what it taught me,

you know, was that actually doesn't bring you the best health, you know, the obsession around like wanting to eat healthy the whole time. And I didn't have an eating healthy. And I didn't have an disorder or anything. I didn't have like I wasn't anorexic or anything like that. But I definitely had a real stress around everything needing to be right and perfect because I have how I earn my money. And when you know like what every part of the body looks like that's just not healthy. And anyway, I ended up like not on a great space at 23 and being hospitalized. I kind of fell over, kind of had this thing called Ray Gourds, which is when like your, my kidney was kind of like pushing out and I was going into like these tremors and ended up in hospital with like Eurocepsis and

birthsists and internally bleeding and like a whole host of things that happened in one day. And it's interesting, you know, you would probably say I had the model diet, but I wasn't having the healthiest version of me. And I accumulate that now to like a full habitual burnout phase, which is when my body just was like, we're done type of thing. Like your head is overriding every signal that we're trying to send to you. And what that made we do was pivot into like, okay, I need to like understand like how I look after myself. And like the first place I can think about that is food and nutrition. So it then opened me up into this whole new world that no one was speaking about like that then. Like no one, like it was very uncool. It was very uncool.

I have to say. And I think every person sat me down and they were like, what are you doing? It was like this legally blonde moment, you know, which she goes to harm. And she's like, everyone's like, I'm a biochemist and same children in Africa. And she's like, well, I graduated as prom queen. And she's got her job. And I was like, oh my God, this is me. And yeah, very slowly I started to realize like, wow, there is so much that I don't know about nutrition. There's so much misinformation out there. There's so much that I've been sold that makes me think that I'm going to be healthy that it isn't and I've had such a warped mindset. My intentions were I really want to be this healthy, like, vibrational, you know, glowing person. Like my real feelings being that was there.

And I think that's what a lot of people want with their health, right? They really want that end goal. But we become like so misaligned and misdirected on our way and we normally do it from a place of low self-worths and low self-esteem and. comparing ourselves to everyone, which is definitely where our mind came from, that we kind of end up on the wrong track. So then I started studying and go, wow, the more I know, the less I know. Oh, the Dun & Kruger, like, absolutely. I feel that on an emotional level. How long after you were hospicilised, did you turn to nutrition? Within that, yeah. Wow. So that's quite a quick pivot. Yeah, I mean, from, I left New York and I had, I remember like,

having so many conversations back here with agents, and being like, what are you doing? And I was like, I don't know, it just feels right. But it's weird because back then, like, it wasn't a trend. Like, it was not cool to go and study nutrition. My grandmother was like, what is that? And I was like, kind of like, you understand about food and your body and how you, like, live well. I think I did it for me.

Like, I did that for myself. You know, it was something that as a model, I had like no identity as a person. I had no purpose. I had no identity. I was a chameleon. I did what everyone else told me to do. At the same time, I traveled the world. I met amazing people. Like, this isn't like violin. But I think in those early years, it's so important that you understand who you are. You have some type of identity, right? You have something that you love or something that you feel passionate about. And I became successful very young and I'm so grateful for that. But I just didn't know who I was. And so I think what goes is. And so I think what going back to study did was allow me to understand more right, who I am and like who is Sarah underneath all. And so that was like a big part of it.

I just think about how spongy my brain was at those years and how I look back on maybe comments that boys might have made about my body that really they took so many years of unlearning or even, you know, comments that maybe my mum made about her diet. Yeah. That just took so many years of unlearning. And then I try to put myself in your shoes and how much more intense the scrutiny of your body must have been. How much more intense the pressure on what you were eating must have been. And I have so much admiration for turning that into something beautiful. That must have been really, really, really, really tricky when your brain is young and it's malleable. And you don't have the tools to handle those sorts of things.

Yeah. And honestly, it felt the most unbravest thing to do. Oh, you just knew I had to do that to survive. if that made sense. And it's weird because I think people look at your end journey now, right? Like I'm way older now and way wiser. I still have delts all the time. But people go like, how did you get there? And it sounded like it was easy. Like six weeks into me start in uni, I had a panic attack. Like my first full blown panic attack. I called my mom. And all I remember her saying is, I don't even know if this is good advice. Maybe you can tell me because you're a doctor.

But she was like, find a brown paper bag and blow into the brown paper bag. And it was like this stereotypical moment of me like sitting outside my university being like and just being like what have I done like I'd left this social life like you know with money and security and I had a mortgage and I was you know I had a house I had basically set myself up and then I was like wait I'm not earning any money and spending all this money and tuition fees and I don't even know if I'm smart because I had a belief that I wasn't smart and so I just remember being like I can't do this like I can't like the whole journey was not easy. And I went to my professor 60s here and I was like, I couldn't drop out. And she was like, why? I was like, because I'm not smart. And you just saw her look at me and she was like,

why would you say that? Before modeling, like I didn't feel like that I disconnected in all my classes. I was always told to stand outside because I was talking. I was daydreaming the whole time. And I had no idea it was neurodivergent. And so I didn't understand my brain. So I just kind of switched off. And I always wanted to do a while I did really well when I went home and worked really tough, but I found it tough because I didn't understand how my brain worked. And so I had this amazing moment with my professor who was like, I think you're dyslexic. And I think that's why you feel overwhelmed. And I think that's why you're zoning out. And two weeks later, I was. But it was like the biggest moment for me in like all of my transitions of my career because I was like,

well, that was a moment that someone gave me space, compassion, time, empathy, like all of these things that are way more important for our intelligence, that our emotional intelligence, and then I didn't drop out. And then I stayed and I graduated. And I was like, I didn't think I didn't think I'd ever do. I fell in love with something that I never thought I'd fall in love with. And I was like, I found out who I was on the way. And like, that took me on a path. And so I think sometimes when you hear people's stories, they can sound really easy. Like, oh, she had this moment. And then she went into this. And then that happened. But there was so.

many moments of like panic attacks and doubts and feelings of low self-worth again and like have I fucked it all up and done the wrong thing. But I think like if you follow like what your body's trying to tell you then it will always work out. It just might not be smooth. Follow what your body's trying to tell you in this world where it's harder and harder and harder to tune in to your body and listen to those signals. But I think it's such an important piece of advice. Yeah. And I love that you mentioned that you're neurodiverse because I believe you've spoken a little bit

about feeding for your brain if you're neurodiverse. So we're going to come on to that a little bit later on. But first, we have a section on this podcast called Buy or Buy Bye Bye. Now, in Buy or Buy, I will show you something on a piece of paper. And I would like to hear whether you would buy this thing or say bye bye to it. Now, the only rule is we absolutely love nuance. there is not enough nuance on social media. Okay, great.

So any caveats, full explanations you want to give, you are free. This is your space. Okay. Starting with celery juice. Bye bye. Bye bye. Yeah. Too much sodium.

Too much sodium. Yeah. A nice quick one. Yeah. Cutting carbs. Bye-bye. Okay. Yeah.

Done. Goodbye. We need them. Yeah. That is why you were saying nutrition wasn't cool. however many years ago, that is why there's a generation of mums, and I was raised on nutrition advice that it's just awful. It is.

It's only through doing this podcast and speaking to lots of nutritionists that I've questioned long-held beliefs that I've held and actually not even recognised. So a big one for me was like nutbusses and nuts, because nuts are just unnecessary calories. Wow, no. But no, no, exactly. unnecessary calories. Sorry for anyone listening. I'm doing the quotation marks because maybe it's not even my mum. It was that era of social media. Maybe it was when I was in sick form and it was a lot of

PTs and they would hold up a tablespoon of Nutella and then a tablespoon of peanut butter and they would say the Nutella is less calories. I completely recognize the nutritional value. The added nutritional value that comes from nut butters versus Nutella. But I think this idea that nut butter is or nuts super calerific had really stuck with me. And it was only through a couple of these episodes where, you know, every single nutritionist will talk about the power of nuts, you know, the fibre power of nuts, the, you know, the nutrient value of nuts. Cardiovascular benefits. Just mini benefits. You want to good skin, have nuts. So then now, you know, I get to the middle of the afternoon and I have this like slump and I've been doing my handful of nuts every, almost every single

day and it's been such a testament to like overcome in this long held belief that is just complete you know bullshit and I think that's from nutrition maybe seen as boring. We need more of this, you know. It's true but also that was an authoritative figure telling you something. So as a child you're obviously going to be like, well obviously, Natella is great. And I think it's even how we sometimes display public health information. We still have, you know, ultra-processed. on that plate to say like, I think it's like people would take what their perceived beliefs are

from a plate. You know, we don't have this 10 lenders that we wear, we're like, oh, I'm going to put this lens on now to interpret this in a specific way. It's like our perceptions are our long-held beliefs. That's how we perceive the world. That's a projection of memory. You know, and I think that's what's so important about when it comes to nutrition. Like that's why things that are really nostalgic, why we feel great when we have a nostalgic meal, because it's like takes us back to something that we feel really safe. And so if we're growing up with beliefs of like, this is really low calorie or, you know,

have these like breakfast biscuits in the morning because they're quick and on the go, but they're not nutritional benefits to them. They're quick. Or like now it's, you know, drink your lunch because we are too lazy to eat it. And like I kind of look at that and I'm like, what messages are we giving to people?

It's worrying. And like the same was. with carbs, like complex carbs are so important for your gut microbiome. And the one thing we've learned in the last 10 to 20 years in nutritional science is your gut microbiome is essential for your immune health, for your mental health, for all parts of your health. It's so much that we don't even know yet. And the fibre is the most important part within that. And that's what complex carbs come from. And so like we're not eating enough of that anyway yet we're telling people to cut it. Yeah. That is like to me it's worrying. It's like very dangerous.

messaging and I get the whole like protein hype and have more protein but like not to not cut something out I never believe that we should cut I believe we should always add that's the most important add not subtract and I would say that when people are shopping they're like what should I not put in my shopping basket and I'm like can you add one new whole food to your basket each week that's what you're meant to do don't think about cutting add one new whole food because then by the end of four weeks you're going to have a diversity of four new whole foods within your diet that hasn't put pressure on you. You're not trying to over your diet on one go, but each week just add one new thing that you haven't cooked before. I've got a really complex

history relationship with food where you didn't like your boyish figure. I had the opposite where I didn't like that I had bigger hips and I was shorter and I had bigger thighs. I looked at my friends who were slim and I just wanted to be like them. And so I developed like quite a complex relationship with food and eating and my body when I was in maybe my second year of uni that developed into quite bad binge eating. And I'm not a food psychologist or an eating disorder specialist at all in the slightest. If those issues, anyone listening is going through, then I will leave resources, numbers in the description for you to get help. But it's really interesting. You said about the attitude of adding rather than subtracting because that was what really, really,

really helped me in that situation. I was on a binge restrict, binge restrict, binge restrict. And then I did have some therapy where I came to the realization to get rid of the binging, I need to first stop restricting. It took me a long, long, long time to stop binging. You know, I was extremely unhealthy in that time. It was binging on a lot of foods that did not make me feel good about myself. They were quite heavily processed foods. And I found it really, really, really difficult to hold to the truths at the same time. If I wanted to feel better in myself, I would have to eat more nutritious foods, but I felt that every time I tried to eat more nutritious foods, I slipped back into the restrict cycle. There was one day that really epitomized this

addition mindset, which is what really, really helped me, was I was craving corn chicken nuggets. So I had my corn chicken nuggets in a little wrap, but then I made myself like this gorgeous salad on the side because I was saying, I'm craving the corn chicken nuggets. I'm going to have the corn chicken nuggets. But I'm going to add a gorgeous nourish. salad. Or if I was craving an almond quasson, I would have my almond quasson. That was, you know, I was going to have it. But I would have some apples on the side. Nice. So, and slowly, but surely, I recognised how the nutritious food made me feel. And I was able to find that balance in my relationship with food. But I, yeah, I'm so glad you said the addition mindset, not the

subtract mindset. Yeah. Do you notice that's really interesting. This is really fascinating study by Ilya cron from Stanford and this changed so much about how I saw food, right? So we always see these foods in like indulgent diet. And I'm sure you saw that when you were in your phase of binge eating

where you were like, I'm going to indulge in all of these things. So she did this really interesting study where she gave two groups of participants a milkshake. And she said, this is indulgent and this is diet. And the indulgent, she said, had like 600 calories and the diet

had 300 calories. And then afterwards she measured their hunger hormone. And what she found is the ones that were in the indulgent milkshake, their hunger hormone rose and they were full. And they were like, don't want to eat anymore. The ones that were in the diet one, their hunger hormone didn't rise. So they felt empty. The calories were exactly the same. They both had 380 calories and 8 shake.

It was the perception of what they told the participants that changed their hunger levels. Nothing to do with the shake. Wow. So our beliefs about what we're eating, how we're eating, what we're doing is sometimes even more important than the food itself. Right? So like what you're doing there, you're mixing, you're like, I'm going to have this, but I'm also going to have this. And you're like giving your brain like nourishment, you're telling your brain, but I'm also going to nourish myself. So I'm also going to feel great. And slowly what you've done is you've changed your beliefs. So I'm like, I'm not just going to go all in and feel crap about myself.

the perception of like actually what we think we're consuming has way more of an effect on that kind of binge cycle than we actually realize. And I just find that mad. Like the fact that we can, you know, think, am I going to have the skinny hot chocolate or the full fat hot chocolate? And just from thinking that, whether it's a full fat or skinny, our hunger hormone will rise and fall connected to what we're telling ourselves. That idea that we're maybe depriving ourselves a little bit. That's really, really, really interesting. Isn't that so interesting? Sugar-free diets.

Bye-bye. This is so easy. It's so easy. Any other comments on why sugar-free diets, absolutely not. I mean, first of all, just think about the study that I just said. I mean, I'm not saying that sugar's great for you. We all know that there are so much sugar in a lot of the, if we're not cooking healthy at home the whole time, we know that whatever we're consuming is probably going to be packed of sugar

because it hits our dopamine receptors and it makes us feel great. but it also makes us crash. But this kind of like sugar-free trend that was really big about 10 years ago there was all these books like sugar-free eating, what are you also substituting it with? Like this is what we also don't think about. And I think we need, well, it depends on how we're looking at sugar, right?

We're looking at sucrose, fructose, glucose. There's so many different types of sugar. Glucose is what literally gives our brain energy to function every single day. Like we need glucose. If we're training, we need some type of glucose in our system. or fructose. We need that. That's why having actually quick release carbs, quick release sugar is amazing if we're trying to train for a marathon because you need that

to get off the start line. Not so great if you're sitting down for eight hours. So like everything's so dependent but I think like removing anything is such a restrictive mindset and we live in a world where like we shouldn't fully remove it and when we're thinking about sugar-free diets, I bet you a lot of people won't think about alcohol and that. Yes. So alcohol is massively sugary. But like we tend to not think about that because were like, oh, this makes me feel like it's a liquid diet, but that's as instrumental to our glucose levels because you've got no fibre in there. So that's also going to give you more of a hit.

Thinking about like your fizzy drinks, like all of these things contain sugar. And so I think like, you know, so much about health and the reason why these things don't get friarity is because it's not a magic solution. Sugar in a certain sense can also give you a lot of joy. I would feel really sad if I couldn't ever go out and have a piece of birthday cake. because at the same time that cake is giving me happiness, connection, like all of the things that are also so important for our health span, right? And so like, but when we're like completely stripping things out and saying, I'm completely sugar-free, like, what does that mean that you don't eat fruit?

Like, fruit is also really nourishing, but it's got sugar in. And I think what's really interesting about sugar is people go, yeah, I know, but I'm going to make, you know, date brownies. And I'm like, but that's still sugar. Like your body doesn't go, oh, hang on a minute. Ding, ding. This is different sugar. It's biochemically the same. And so like when it goes into your body, whether it's maple syrup, whether it's a date or whether it's white table sugar, your body register it the same. Yes, you might have a little bit more nutrients from the date, but like it's

not that much different. Your glucose will still respond, your insulin and everything will still work at the same way. And so I think it's all about just having it in like smaller amounts. you know it's not kind of having a dessert first without any other fiber in your stomach but making sure you're balancing it I say the way that people can be aware of sugar is just being a little bit more of like the food they're buying like what's in your shopping basket because two-thirds of a shopping basket are sadly full of ultra-process foods so rather than thinking you've got to cut sugar just thinking about like well how much do you think you include in your diet because I think that's just the unawareness piece that we don't talk about but it's not that sugar's like toxic it's not like sugar's really

unless you are very heavily diabetic, then we do not want you to consume a lot of sugar. Yeah. But I think like this whole like sugar-free, like I don't think you can even live in this world being sugar-free. No, no. I mean, like, you'd be so lonely. Yeah. I've seen a lot of videos recently that's like, I quit sugar for 30 days and I was like,

I thought we moved on. I'd love to see their diet. I'm like, what is in their diet? Yeah. Like, what is in their diet? Are they consuming any fruit? Are they, like, I mean, even oats have sugar to a degree. Like, where are we, where are we drawing the line?

on sugar. Are we saying no refined sugar? So I'm just cutting out sweets and fizzy drinks. Like, great. I'm all on board for that. I'm all on board for like cutting out fizzy drinks and lots and lots of sweets. Like brilliant. Like turn towards more things like chocolate, dark chocolate and, you know, the nuts and all of those things and dried fruits turn towards that. But I'd love to see someone's like full sugar-free diet. And I'd also love to know how long they last because we know from meta-analysis that diets do not last more than 12 months. People just regain their weight. It doesn't matter what diet. they're on. And also if you take the tea off diet, you get dyes. So I would feel that's quite funny.

GLP gardens. I'm nuanced here. Good. No, I love, we love nuance here. We love nuance. So GLP ones, I think there is, it's one of the most amazing pharmaceutical inventions we've had in history, I think. We are in an obesity epidemic. I think we've got to look at this. Like one, you can look at this from a public health lens. I know like it's going rolled out now. I think it's like a 3,000 pound bonus GPs might be getting for giving these GRP ones out. I saw that article about six weeks ago because I spoke to Dr. Jack Mosley, he's just written his book and food noise. It's brilliant if you want to know more about GRP ones. But there's a certain subcategory of people that really, really struggle with their weight. And they have tried everything.

And you think about gastric bans and all of these things. And these are where they can serve people really, really well. And if they can serve them with the right interventions, like the lifestyle intervention, so not just giving out GLP-1s, like making sure they're having enough protein, doing enough of their muscle mass training and weight training and resistance training and actually changing their behavior with food whilst on it. Thing with GRP-1s is what we know now is that it's not just a 12-month quick fix. Like most of these people are on it for life. It's a long-term thing.

It's not a one-year intervention and then people go off because we know that people regain, 80% of people regain their weight 12 months after going off GLB. ones. So then you go back on it. So then you kind of create this cycle, right? And then you kind of go into the, I don't have any willpower and it's shame and it's the horrible cycle that everyone connects to with dieting. So I think we have to be really aware of how we, how we do these. But, you know, this week I was in France at a conference and there was a, yeah, very smart, cognitive scientists sat next to me saying, I've been on GLP ones and it's changed my life. Like it's genuinely changed my life. And there are these people where it has had massive benefit.

And she was like, it's even changed my mood. It's changed how I think about things, how I see things. And so you hear these stories and it's amazing. I've had other guys that have come to me around GLP ones where they've lost all their hair. They're like, it's changed my life. I've lost all of my weight. I feel great, but I've gone bald because that's another effect. And then you see people that potentially don't need to be on GLP ones that can go from

microdosing. And it can be, I mean, we don't even have evidence on what. this is yet. I mean, people were talking about this anecdotally because there's like no research on healthy weight individuals using gLP ones. So we don't know what that kind of sphere is here. But what we do know is that it's not fat loss. It's mostly muscle and muscles that people lose. And muscle mass is one of the biggest predictors for longevity and health span. So when we're looking at this, well, okay, so somebody of a healthier weight who isn't in this obese category that needs to and been struggling for years is going on these gLP ones.

They're getting his unpick face because they're losing all them. all their muscles in their face. They're also losing all their muscle mass. Like, this isn't healthy. And then it's kind of, well, where does that end? Do they stay on that forever? Like, so in this space, like, it's not about getting like a beach body ready. It's not an aesthetic drug.

It's none of that. Like, this is actually really dangerous. Like, these are really dangerous drugs. And used in force, like, I mean, there's not loads of deaths, but there have been deaths. Like pancreatic has been a big one. So we've got to be really careful on how we're labelling them. because I interviewed David Kesler, who wrote a whole book about this two years ago. And I bought up the term microdose in gLP ones because where I started hearing about it,

it wasn't through academic papers, it was through celebrities. And seeing them all over social media losing a ton of weight. And I'm like, huh, they've lost a lot of weight. What's going on there? And that's where this, you know, when King Kardashian people were using these. And I was like, wow, it's interesting because it's gone from celebrity focus as opposed to like the medical side where I think a lot of doctors were hearing about it. And I think the social messaging around GRP ones hasn't been the best.

And that's why I think doctors are so normally pro-it because they see such amazing changes in patients that really do need to go on this, right? But I think on the social side of things, people see the celebrity image and see people microdosing and losing weight. And that's where I think it gets really worrying. And when I brought this up to David Kessler, he was like, would you mean microdosing? And I was like, no, this is people are, know, this is a thing.

And he was like, don't be so stupid. And I completely shut me down. And I was like, well, I know people in my social circles that are doing this. Like, it's a thing. And even when I was at the conference yesterday, you know, one guy was like, yeah, half of the Upper East side of New Yorker on GRP ones. And I'm like, this is the thing that we're not talking about. And so I think, you know, I think we just, there's a lot of nuance in this area.

There's a lot we don't know. But we also know, like, this has been massively also connected to like, longevity and loads of other things. And I think with things with, you know, this is a peptide. Like peptide is booming right now, the peptide industry. Sadly, it's very unregulated and it's very scary. BCP 157, I think it is. It's probably the ones got the most research, but still not enough. And people are getting these online from China, shooting themselves with peptides and a longevity pack. And GLP1 is one of those, one of the peptides, right, that people talk about most research peptide at least, but it's still within this peptide category. And I am terrified about this whole

set of peptides that is just going completely AWOL right now on the internet. And that is what worries me because we're seeing again this subset of people, young people that are, we don't know what their effects are going to be. You know, I think about, you know, TRT. It makes men infertile. You've hit some really, really important points at the point about the disconnect between the scientific community and what is actually going on in the general population. And this is why I thank my lucky stars every single day that I am like the only doctor in my friendship group, the only even woman in STEM in my friendship group because they will come to me with things that my algorithm would never serve me because I would, I'm not susceptible to that. Yeah. So a lot of my

friendship group are on, GOP1s. Yeah. You know, not all of them should be. on GLP ones. Not all of them have them prescribed legally. Yeah. You know, as in I am against this. Just to protect my licence. I am very much against this.

And even as a friend who's a doctor's telling them, look, you please don't do that. They are still taking them. The fact that we don't have data on their use in healthy individuals, yes, that is a reality is shocking. There was a systematic review recently that came out and it was saying, well, you know, A ZemPEC actually doesn't cause muscle wasting,

but actually, I think the conclusion was that it wasn't as meaningful as made out to be. The claims were exaggerated. The concerns about muscle wastage were exaggerated. But the data was done in people who were using for its correct reasons, not for people of a healthy weight. Yeah. The whole peptides thing, I remember the first time someone asked me,

they said, so what do you think about the peptides thing? This was maybe a year ago. And I was like, what do you mean? like what do you mean and they said oh you know like the peptides people are injecting like it's going huge at the moment on social media and I was like I've literally not seen this at all and they were asking for like a doctor's no it was a UK person okay but they was like oh well maybe it's just like the Jimbrose side of TikTok and I was like yeah I was like I have no idea like absolutely no idea I don't know what you're talking about peptides is a very broad scientific what do you mean and then now it's starting to come out I know Miles from Made in Chelsea came out and didn't add for peptides. All of them were completely unregulated, unresearched. He's injecting them into his body and he has been paid to promote that. Where does moral ethics lie in all of this?

Are you allowed to promote injecting yourself on the internet? Does that not come under some sort of ASA guideline? When I think about injecting, I just think about diabetics that are trying to regulate their insulin levels. Do you know what I mean? And I think like... Injecting a supplement is wide. It's wild. How have we come to this?

I know, but this is the thing I think, and this, you know what I'm saying? Like, America always feels like five years ahead. I've spent a lot of time over there. I do a lot of podcasts over there. I used to live there. I have a lot of friends there. At one point, I nearly moved there.

And I'm like, wow, I'm really far behind. Like, what's going on? And you hear all of this longevity stuff that's coming up. And I really struggled with the word, and you probably noticed I've said health span more than longevity because I struggle with the word longevity now, It really makes me sound because it is actually a scientific term and sometimes I go to these conferences

and their longevity conferences by really good doctors. But it's now been kind of traded as this like bro thing, which I've struggled with because I'm like, oh, it is actually, but now I've got to use the word health span because I feel like that feels less trendy. Yeah. But I feel like when I go there, there's all of these things cropping up.

And then it starts trickling to the UK. And over there, they're so far ahead of the. the stuff. It's wildfire over there, like stuff. And it's so unregulated. Everything is so unregulated. And people are paying hundreds of thousands for so many different things that are not regulated. The thing that worries is what I said at the beginning, like, people generally want to feel better. People are genuinely trying to find stuff to feel better. That's people's ultimate goal. But there's like half of it, snake oil. If I didn't have a scientific background, I would struggle so much in this landscape. I still struggle with the scientific background. I'm like, wait, is this good?

You know, because I'm really interested in health, you know, it's not like I'm, want to be against all of these things, because some of these things can't work. Like, there are some things that are, can be really beneficial. But I think sometimes, like, there's just so much. There is so much. And then we just get overwhelmed. Yeah. Even I don't have time to research them all. I'm making a bit. Healthy shouldn't be this hard. That is honestly the, I, honestly think it's an intentional choice to make all health information so confusing because then it ultimately serves as a barrier to being healthy and hence the book title that we will we will come on to. Well, guess how much the wellness industry is predicted to be by next year, 2027?

Surely like $7 trillion or I'm like. $8.5 trillion. I'm sorry, can we just get our head around how much that is? Now you think about business. We've got to talk about business because that's the entire point of like how an economy runs. It's a marketing machine. There is so much out there that people can use this. There's so much money to be made. And so I think that's where the disparity comes in. I think that's when like the critical thinking needs to come in.

I'm like, I am not saying like none of these things can ever work. Like in the right context, they can and for different people. But I think like it's one short solution that we think that we'd, I don't know, we're never going to age. Like that is part of life. Let me die at 80. Like I'd love to have a long healthy life. I've had to have a good life.

Yeah. And then just pop. That's what makes life so beautiful. The finality of it. Anyway, I'm going to get off on a big old tangent. Final bye or bye-bye is... Oh no. Out.

Do you know what? I think that was a full house. That was bye-bye for every single one. And it was actually so quick, apart from the tangents. I'm going to have to get in some community questions. How to get over emotional eating? I always feel like a sadness and some writes this to me because I can feel like the pain of that type of question, which I think is really important to honour. I think that when I always people listen to other people speaking, it just sounds so bloody easy. It's not easy. Emotional eating isn't about food. It's so much more within that person and the struggles that person's going through how they see themselves.

There's not a formula right here that I can give and say if you do this, this and this, you won't totally get every emotional eating. It just doesn't. It's just not how it is. And I think the first thing I would say is like reach out for help. Like this is the number one thing. So the biggest acknowledgement is that they've written about it. They've acknowledged it. A lot of people with emotional meeting, there's so much shame that goes with it. The lack of acknowledgement is so easy to like go, no, I don't want to look at that. Because I don't want to look at myself.

That's a big part of it, right? So one, this person's acknowledged it. Incredible. Massive courage, massive bravery. Second is like find help. Find help. And what does the emotional meeting look? like what type of emotional tongue you struggling with, first of all, because eating disorders

there is a whole spectrum. And it can be from obesity all the way down to anorexinervosa. And anorexinivosa is actually very small at the end. There's like a whole range. It's like night eating disorder. There's like bulimia. There's binge eating. The orthorexia. There's so many different types of eating disorders. I also believe to a fundamental level that we all have a connection to an eating disorder at some point. And that isn't an extreme eating disorder. that is something where we've all overthought something about food, had a connection to it, it has an emotional experience,

it is an emotional experience. So I really want to validate this person. I really want to say get professional help. That's so important. Potentially, possibly from a very good therapist as well who can help. Self-worth and self-compassion are going to be your two best friends in this. So self-worth is one thing to kind of look at how do you see yourself. And how I see you build self-worth is with you.

self-compassion. And so something that's so important is that we could normally do this from a place that we hate ourselves, right? I'm sure you'll relate to this, right, when you were doing and you were probably like, didn't like yourself very much. Self-compassion is so important through any type of emotional eating to like give yourself some fucking grace. Like, be kind to yourself. Like that is so underestimated and it's so overlooked. This isn't like going to be an easily in a journey. anything that when you're battling with anything is never an easy journey, right? But like being kind to yourself during it makes it a little bit less harder. And self-compassion is like, well, I've got to love myself.

We're not talking to American version of like, go and look in the mirror and tell yourself, you're amazing. Like, it's not that. Self-compassion is being fair to yourself, being nice. Like, if you're listening to this and you just heard Faye's story, would you tell her? What would you tell Faye when she was battling? would you say like Christ, what's wrong with you? Why can't you do this? Like look at everyone else. They're doing it, Faye. Why can't you? What's your problem? Like, you would not say that

to yourself. No. But that's what this voice is going to be saying inside this person's head. And so self-compassion is like, do you know what? I'm really struggling with this right now. Like, this is tough. Like, this is really tough. And like, I'm going to find the right support. I'm going to find the right therapist. Like, I'm going to really look after myself. And I try. try and think about it as like think about it as a child, like you're that child, that what love do you want to give to that child that inside is like really struggling? And we all have them. And I think normalising this is really important. So I use this technique called NNM technique, the name normalized nurture. Naming like what is it? Okay, I'm really struggling with emotional

eating right now or like I'm really struggling with X. Normalize it. Okay. So wow, I just heard this podcast and Faye just to speak about her, her relationship to food. Oh my God. Okay. Not the only one. Okay, this is like a, this is, I'm not alone in this. Wow, she's read my question out. That's like, oh my God, there's acknowledgement there. Okay, this is a thing. This obviously is a thing she's read out because there must be loads of people struggling with this then.

If there's just one person in the world, she's not going to pick my question. Okay. So I'm like, not on my own here. Like, it's part of like what other people are going through. And then like nurture, like, nurture that feeling. Give yourself compassion and grace in that moment. Because this gives you the courage and the steps to like tackle that. solution, right? The problem that you're really trying to grasp. If you're just telling yourself

that you're crap the whole time and that you're a failure, like, that's not going to get you to the next step. That's not going to get you to pick up the phone or pick up an email to a therapist. Or maybe look at the show notes and be like, oh, you know, where did FAPE or those resources? Like, they're the first steps and I think that's really important. The second thing I would say is like look at like how your relationship with this food. Like keeping food diaries can be really helpful for when you go and see someone, because I think we all have a bias that when we try and like relay back to what we're actually consuming, we can do it with like our own biases on because that's just the way that we are. And if I asked you to recall what you had yesterday,

you probably tell me 50% of thoughts right and 50% you'd forget and 5% you might be ashamed of, so you don't want to tell me. So I think having that understanding as well is really, really important because we can also see ourselves through one lens. But I think the biggest part of this is being kind on yourself. And like doing the ad not subtract thing is a really helpful thing. Like trying to create, it depends. I don't know what this is emotional. I don't know if it's too much controlled or less control. So it's really hard to give prescription. But I think like trying to make sure that you can think of food as nourishment as well is so essential. I think a lot of us, and we spoke about restriction on the show, a lot of us don't look at food as like fueling our hair,

fueling our skin, fueling our energy, feeling our mood. Like, food is so important for our mental health. And, you know, a lot of emotional eating is connected to our mental health. Like, we've got to support it during this time. So these are, like, the key things that I would say to, like, get you on that road to to making sure you're getting help from the right person. Rees knows a thing or two about great combinations. Chocolate and peanut butter, obviously.

But there's more than one way to Rees's. From indulgent Reese's big cups with caramel to crunchy Reese's pieces and Reese's miniatures, there's a delicious Reese's for every mood. It's the same combo you love, just with more ways to enjoy it. So whether you're snacking, sharing, or just treating yourself, nothing else is Reese's. We're going to come on to neurodivergence and eating to support your neurodivergence. So how has understanding neurodiversity changed the way you think about the relationship between what we eat and how our brains work.

And also, I have ADHD. Do you? So I do indeed. So is there anything people with ADHD should be eating or avoiding eating? Yeah. So I got really interested in this. I didn't know I had ADHD until last year, which was quite interesting. So I knew I had dyslexia in my early 20s, but they didn't test me for ADHD.

And then I was on a podcast and someone was like, you know, it was on this Bloomberg podcast. And afterwards they called me and they were like, we're doing this show on ADHD. we really want you to come on. And I was like, okay, what, talk about it from a nutritional perspective? No, no, no, no, I don't. I was like, don't diagnose me. No, I don't. And they were like, you definitely, from what you've done in your life,

you've definitely got ADHD. And I'm like, what do you mean? I take it as a massive insult. And they were like, would you mind if we took you to a psychiatrist and you did the tests to see? And I'm like, I'm not paying all this money to be told something that I'm being diagnosed with. And I was very like, blah, blah. They're like, we kind of can't be part of the show. So I was like, okay, I'll do it.

Anyway, definitely have ADHD. And I was like, wow, I did not think that I'd had ADHD. But the reason that I didn't have as much grief this time as when I did when I found out when I was 23 is because when I was studying nutritional science, I remember being in a lecture. And I remember them talking about the brain. And I remember them saying 50% of the brain is made up of this component on long chain fatty acids is actually just over 50% of omega-3. EPA is one part, but DHA is the main primary component. So over 50% is up DHA and I'm like, what the hell is DHA? And then it's found mostly in fatty fish because they eat all the algae and that's where they get their omega-3 from.

So it's only really in fatty fish. You get shorter chains and these are in like your walnuts and your things. But the conversion down to DHA is very, very short. So you've got to be eating like one to two portions of oily fish a week. And I start to become more obsessed with that and I said, well, I wonder what happens if you're dyslexic. And I wonder what this happens. And there was this amazing scientist at Oxford University, Alex Richardson, who was really interested in neurodivergency.

And so I was obviously like, went to all of her seminars and followed everything that she did. And I did my dissertation on dyslexia, ADHD, dyspraxia, and all the different types of neurodiversity with omega-3 fatty acids. And for me, I was like, I wonder if having more oily fish, because at this point I didn't like oily fish. You know, I don't like oily fish either. Yeah, keep going. So.

Would make an impact. And I remember her saying this study, she was like, yeah, there was the seven-year-olds that really struggled in their reading abilities. I can't remember because it was so long ago, but after so many weeks, it was like other weeks or months of having just fish, they didn't just improve their reading age. They overcame other peers who didn't have dyslexia with their chronicle reading age. And I'm like, what? What?

Huh? So I'm like, I'm like, I. I think I need to start eating fish. Yeah. So I then start looking more into research. And obviously when you start looking into research, you go to a bit of a black hole and you're going, well, is it supplements? Is it fish? And kind of what I ended up is in supplements, because they all vary in their strengths.

And we'll talk about what to look for on supplements. It was very inconclusive. But if you did eat two portions of oily fish a week, it could really benefit your things like ADHD and dyslexia. And I was like, wow, that's so important. because obviously if you're not getting essential fatty acids to your brain, your body is amazingly clever and it will just take other fats like cholesterol that's way more rigid and use it in the brain. And so it's really important that we are consuming oily fish.

And so I was like, well, that's really fascinating. So I then started including more fish within my diet. But what we also know about oily fish is it's not just really important for our cell membranes. It also has massive anti-inflammatory effects, which is where the EPA comes in. So oily fish is one thing that I would say is really, really important. if you're neurodiverse to include in your diet. Now, if you don't like fish like you, looking at omega-3 supplement is really important.

So one, if you're vegan or vegetarian, you won't be having a fish supplement, but you can have algae. So I would say looking at a supplement that has good DHA and EPA and potentially maybe more DHA because that's the brain component. When you look at supplements,

it is so important to see what percentage of DHA and EPA is in there. They can range from 20% to 30% all the way up to 90%. And the others can have bulking agents. Do not buy a supplement that has omega-6 and omega-9 within it because it completely drowns out the omega-3. We have an abundance of omega-6 and omega-9 in our diet and abundance. It's so far out of the ratio of omega-3 because it actually shares the same pathway in omega-6 is so much more dominant in our diet.

That's why it drowns the conversion from the shorter chain omega-3 fatty acids to the longer ones. So that's why the nuts and the chai seeds and all those things are high in omega-3, they're the shoulder chain to struggle with that longer conversion. So that's why we've got to consume the fatty fish. So have an algae supplement if you are a vegan or vegetarian. And if you just don't like fish, because a lot of people don't, then have a really good source of omega-3 and just check that it's got mostly DHA and EPA and no omega-6 and omega-9.

So that's kind of one thing that I would say. trying to reduce things like alcohol is really important if you have ADHD. Too much like quick high sugar foods. Eating regularly to sustain energy levels is really, really important. The basics are really important for ADHD as well. And I also say this from my personal experience. Like I know if I miss like a meal that my ADHD feels like it's worse. Like I'm not getting the right glucose to my brain.

I know that if I'm eating too much like sugary fast foods, that also affects my concentration levels. we know this. This is like, we see this in children, right? If we give them like sugary cereals and send them off school, their concentration is and it's great. And we struggle more like that with ADHD. We can get hyperfocus, but we can also really struggle with things.

And so like having good proper nutrition is essential. It also really helps with your sleep. Yeah. Like having good protein foods is also really helpful to help you sleep as well. And they always say if you can't sleep or speaking to a cognitive scientist today. And she was like, if you're struggling to sleep, having your essential. essential amino acids before you go to bed like chema or an egg or cottage cheese is also really good at helping settle the mind and the brain. So also thinking about a lot of people say,

don't eat before you go to bed, but actually if you're really struggling, your brain is not turning off, having some good protein, like going to the fridge and even eating that can also really help with settling the mind. That's so interesting. Sarah, we've got the last question that we've been asking. All our guests and that is Sarah, what do you wish? woman knew by the time she was 25. It's a big one. Oh my gosh. Such a pivotal age. Well, I wanted to originally say healthy shouldn't be this hard because it's a plug for my book, but... You can plug your book. But, because I do believe that. Like, I do think we go on this, especially as women, like, I think we go on this, like, whole thing on, like, needing to be this idealised person and stuff. I would say, what I wish by the

time people got to their 25s is that they really understood their strengths and not their weaknesses. And I think the more that you can understand what your strengths are and the less on your weaknesses, I think when we're young, we always try and cover up what we're not good at. And we put too much energy into perfecting our weaknesses and we put less time into knowing what our strengths are. And I think that comes later because you become a bit wiser and you become a bit more confident and you have more life experience. but I think I wish if I didn't spend so much time trying to hide my weaknesses and putting energy into that,

I would have had much less kind of worry in my mind. And so I'd say like I wish people focus more on their strengths and less than their weaknesses. I love that. And I completely agree, especially as women. Yeah. Thank you so, so much for coming on the podcast. You have been absolutely wonderful. And we will leave the link for your book.

in the description, but also listeners should be able to win a copy of your book. And I will leave the instructions for that in the description as well. Amazing. Thank you so, so much. Thank you for having me.