Her Discussions by Dr Faye - Why You Feel Ugly All The Time

Episode Date: December 17, 2025

Ordinary Em is a leading critic of an industry worth over 1 trillion that aims to make women feel bad about themselves, influencing and rethinking their social media consumption.In this episode, we’ll be digging into how tactics used by the beauty industry affect us, discussing the dangers of social media culture, and how to free ourselves from the expectations that have been imposed on us as women for too long.What you’ll learn:💸 how an industry valued at $1 trillion is trying to fool you🧔‍♂️ why you should ask yourself if a man would buy it🥪 why you just need a “crap sandwich”⚡ why overachieving won’t fix your anxiety🏛️ beliefs you’re holding that are making old white men richResources & links mentioned:@ordinaryemm_Links to subscribe / follow:Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/her-discussions-by-dr-faye/id1835829612Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5viLYizHD4Zy6J42iqtPRoCan I ask you a BIG favour? 💙Please leave a review or rating. It helps us grow the podcast and bring you more amazing guests.Share with someone who needs this; it might help them live a happier, healthier life.Follow us on social media or join the broadcast channel to send us your questions for our guests. I'll leave the link here: https://www.instagram.com/channel/AbY4liwxlLnewx4H/?igsh=MWhuaXFweGtucTB3cA==https://www.instagram.com/channel/AbY4liwxlLnewx4H/?igsh=MWhuaXFweGtucTB3cA==🛑 Disclaimers & legal:This podcast is for educational / informational purposes only and does not constitute medical, legal, or financial advice. All opinions are those of the speaker(s).

In boarding school, I was constantly getting put on the banting list. What's a bad? Banting. At school? At school. Then let me do it. That was crazy. One of the big reasons I left South Africa was not feeling safe.

I hit 16 and I realized what like the country actually was about. I was like, oh, I don't actually feel safe here. And then it got a bit dark. There's two points I need to make on that. Number one is actually a product that I bought. I have a feeling you may be a little bit of no dead me. Absolutely fuck off. Ordinary M is a leading critic of an industry worth over one trillion pounds.

In this episode, we'll be digging into how to free yourself from the negative talk that has been projected onto women for far too long. The people with information can manipulate people without information. The greatest advice I can give is... If you haven't already, please could you just take one moment to leave a five-star review if you're listening on Spotify or subscribing if you are one. watching on YouTube. It is a huge, huge, huge help to the podcast and means that we can keep going, bringing you more and more guests that can help you live a happier, healthier life.

Thank you. We've got so many community questions all about how to detach yourself from external validation, confidence, beauty standards. But the first thing I need to explain is why I felt it extremely necessary to do an episode with you, not just because I think you're a wonderful individual, but I went wedding dress shopping with one of my close, close friends. Two weeks ago for the first time, it was the first time any of us had gone wedding dress shopping. She tried on this dress and she was just super, super, super fixated

on this tiny little piece of flesh that was sticking out from the top of her top. and we were sat having our debrief after the wedding dress shopping and I was like this is the moment when I just need to get up some content because you do so much content I think sends such an incredible message and I think every single one of us needs more of in our life. It just reminded me as well as not only just being my friend you spread an incredible wonderful message. So you needed to come on. Thank you, Angel. And before we come on to all of that wonderful stuff, I want to bring you back to in South Africa. We've spoken a little bit about you growing up in South Africa, but I want to hear all about it and how that girl who grew up in South Africa has ended up here spreading the message that you spread.

So wonderfully. Thanks, my angel. Thank you for having me. I just think we're going to have the greatest time ever. I just love yapping to you anyway. I just also wanted to caveat before I even start speaking. I'm literally non-expert on anything. However, I think what's so important is just to like converse.

And I think whenever I like leave a coffee with you or a yap with you, I always leave thinking like, oh, those were some new points that I didn't think of or whatever. And we don't ever come to any solid conclusions. If anything, there's just more existential dread. So you can expect a lot of that from me because I spiral often. But I just think like conversing instead of just having this, like one narrative that we're sold on how we should look, how we should act, how small we should be or how smooth our skin should be, blah, blah, blah. It's so important to actually just like dive

into other parts of that. And if anything, I would just want to give your listeners a bit of that of like a different way to think about these things instead of just how ultimately they want us to think about these things. But the little M in South Africa, bless her. Oh, growing up in South Africa was great, I think. We've got a really good way of life. We, except until I think I hit 16 and I realized what like the country actually was about and what we're facing and the gender-based violence going on. And then it got a bit, a bit dark into uni. I was like, oh, I don't actually feel safe here. And then looking back, you grow up in a certain way like locking your car immediately and not really stopping at red lights and all of those things.

And you're like, oh, that's not normal. We're just, this is just my normal. So that was one of the big reasons I left South Africa was not feeling safe. But I am also very lucky to get the luck of a British passport through my dad. And so I decided I wanted to travel and see some of the world for myself. So I left four and a half years ago now, but I had been traveling from six years ago. ago. But if I think about growing up, I would say I was very sporty. I wouldn't say I was sure of myself, but I think if you looked at me, you'd think I was. I did really well at school because I

thought I had to. I just thought like that's the best thing you can be is like an all-rounder. And like, you know, I was sold that thing of, I think it was at 17. My screensaver at 17 was like skinny girls look good in clothes, strong girls look good naked or something. I was like, what am I doing thinking about how I am perceived naked? But that was one of the things. Like I was good at sport, but I also knew that if I stayed in the top teams, I'd be exercising a lot. And in boarding school, I was constantly like getting put on the banting list because that

was an option. What's a bat? Banting. What's banting? So you know, you have like red meat, white meat. options at obviously like at a boarding school for your dining hall. Yeah. So some people for religious reasons would only have a certain type of meat, some people out

of preference and some people who wanted to be quote unquote healthier or lose weight. Yeah. Via a system that was not very well looked after. But there was also the banning option, which was no carbs. So they would give you like extra meat or extra da-da-da-da. And I was at school. At school. And then you get weighed every week.

And this was like an option that. like only looking back now, I was like, how did they let me, I think I was like 53 KGs at the time, like over-exercising, under-eating, but then like binge eating on the side of like once I had my way in. And I was with other girls who weren't on that same, like they weren't in the top teams, they weren't exercising, they wanted to maybe be healthier, but this was still not, obviously a very well-guarded way to do that. And they let me do it. And they let me come in and weigh myself and try to lose. however many cages I wanted to lose, even though I was trying to also be a really good sportswoman.

So that was crazy. And I think that's when I started like yo-yoing with food, self-worth with how I look, not about performance anymore. Like it's great to be in the top teams and it's cool to be captain, but more so it means that I can't like upkeep the way I look and no one will actually notice because I'm getting up at 5 a.m. to go swim because I'm in the first team mortar polo. I don't need to be getting up at 5 a.m. to go swim, you know, like things like that. So seemingly very fit, healthy. Yeah? Like I think also what's happened with my Instagram, bless my mom and dad, who my mom follows me. And every now and then my dad will message me being like, your mom sent me a link.

Is everything okay? And I'm like, dad, I'm fine now. But I'm sure for them, it's shocking to think that like I have all of these issues from, I'm trying to help other girls not go through these things. when they were like, you're doing fine. Like, what do you mean? And I was like, I know. But, you know, these things are so, it's so easy to be secretive about them.

And you can hide them with like things like sport. And this idea of trying to be healthy, but it is actually just like an obsession with exercise or an obsession of trying to be smaller and things like that. I think I also went like vegan, was on banning. So we had a wild time with food. And then went into uni, studied. architecture, crazy, didn't finish architecture. I did that for three years. COVID hit and got anxiety around the idea of like going, logging back on after I had one month left. And my dad was like, if it's giving you anxiety, just there's nothing you need to be anxious about it, 21. Like just,

just quit. It's fine. And I was like, are you sure? He was like, yeah, it's fine. So I quit and I got a yoga teaching qualification. And then I left and I taught yoga in Greece and Croatia and started traveling the world that way. So that's where we are now. I just need to reverse to that you were being weighed every single week. What age were you when you were being weighed every week at school? 17 by the school. I don't remember the processes around like who approved us getting on it. I think we literally just put our names down and then part of, it wasn't like extra staff. It wasn't like the medical staff or anyone like that. I think it was literally just the kitchen staff who had a job to be like, Banting girls on a Wednesday or whenever it was, come get weighed, we'll write your thing down.

And I don't know if that was the point as well. I think for other girls, that was the point was to keep losing. Or I don't know if maybe there's a part of me that hopes that it was to make sure people weren't losing that much off of, you know, like to actually, but I don't think it was, I don't think that that was very optimistic on me to think that they were weighing us to protect us from under-eating. But I don't think that was the case. Well, they're giving you meals that are supposedly aiming to help you lose weight.

So I'd imagine that probably isn't the rationale. And there's two points I need to make on that. Number one, if you have not listened to the episode with Dr. Meeb, where she talks about relative energy deficiency in sport, it's when women are doing sport and not consuming enough fuel. And then they're putting themselves at risk of so many, they're losing their period. They're putting themselves at risk of stress fractures from their bones,

literally just not having enough energy that your bones break when you're a young woman, it should not be happening. And if you haven't listened to that episode and wants to realize why it's such a bad thing to not be fueling your body, when you're exercising, listen to that episode. It's really, really interesting because that attitude, it's not just present in schools where maybe, you know, this isn't a national sports team. It permeates every single level of sport. There are sports trainers who, at the high, level who still have this belief that by being a lower weight you will perform better at that sport that isn't always true but often it's not true unless you're like a jockey or like an

f1 driver i'm pretty sure it literally doesn't have anything to do with how you perform yeah and it is crazy how so much of that is still connected just a heads up that this next section includes mentions of rape and sexual violence the other thing i really really really needed to say was in my master's, our lecturer, for one of our intro lectures, asked my master's class, which is maybe like 40, 50 women, how many lessons they'd had on the menstrual cycle throughout their education. The majority of the people in this class, which is vast majority women, said two to three lessons throughout the entirety of their education. What? So 14 years of education, they had two to three lessons. Your school had staff putting

energy into weighing women weekly. Yeah, instead of the vast amount of other subjects we should have had time speaking on. And one of the ways I got into social media was actually through sex ed, which is what I used to be. I still am like it is one of my top, top passions ever. Like through school, I think the only sex ed class I had, I finished my school career in a boarding school for three years. And prior to that, we had maybe had one talk at like 13.

don't remember anything else from my previous school. But getting into my last three years of boarding school at my new school, the only talk I remember was that one video on tea, which drives me fucking insane. If you haven't seen the video about tea and consent, do you want to explain what that video is? Without getting, like, enraged, I will try. But it was basically, I think we were 16 at the time when they showed us this video.

They literally put it up. I think we were all in separate classes, in our normal classes. it was co-educational school. So we were with the boys, but all the boys were like pissing about in the corner doing something. They put the screen up and they were like, watch this and we'll answer some questions. Don't even remember the questions on it. I remember watching it in this whole like little graphic, which is great for six-year-olds, maybe.

This is a great sex ed content, but for our age, it was just not the one. And it basically goes on to say like, do you want some tea? And they say, no thanks. And then it's continuously pushing, oh, well, you said you wanted tea yesterday and now you don't want tea day. And the whole thing is that T is a metaphor for sex. And we're 16 in one of the worst rape statistics in the world as a country. We can't talk about sex without using the word sex. And it's like, this is where it begins is to try to be preventative in like the gender-based violence and the entitlement men have to women's bodies in this country, especially. This is where

it begins and we can't even talk about it. And that was all we got. So I mean, menstrual cycle is even maybe in biology, which was a subject you had to choose to take, maybe we spoke about it once or twice. But that was where it stemmed for me. And I actually was before ordinary M, I was doing sex ed work and I wanted to do sex ed for adults and go back to South Africa, which I will do at some point and help the curriculum there because it's not enough, especially when, like I said, the stats are so, so bad. and there's currently like, you know, violence against women epidemic. So in terms of the menstrual cycle, got told nothing about it. And I am actually pretty sure that if I wasn't on monthly contraception where it, I've got the combined pill. So getting my period from that, I'm pretty sure I wouldn't have gotten my period.

If it wasn't, like, chemically induced, I probably would have lost it with the really bad relationship I had with food and exercise. You were doing sex ed online and that was your introduction to like the online world. Yeah. And then how did that become ordinary? Well, when I was at uni, I would talk about sex ed pretty much like very openly. We had like some really awful instances where like one of my friends was raped and murdered by a post officer. Sorry, that's very triggering. But that was one of the first instances where we started protesting for like women's protection, safety, all of.

of that. And that's when I started getting very vocal. And I would talk about like all of these things and sex ed felt very easy to talk about. And I realized that that wasn't the case for lots of other people. They would whisper when they said the word vagina or penis or, you know, whatever. And I was like, of course we've got such a problem with talking about sex when no one's taught it. We don't have the language or the vocab to talk about it. So I started in uni thinking, oh, I could actually do something about this. And we, I did. They were called the not-so-secret sex supper club. And I would have women over and we'd all just, they'd all write to question and we'd

all talk about it together. So that's where like the whole community thing started. And I was like, I really want to be a community leader or in community somehow with women. Took the stuff online whilst I was traveling. I would just post educational content and try to take the stigma off and the taboo off all of these topics. Got some work through that online for like podcasts and checking their briefs and content and stuff like that. And then I got very burnt out because I did it for like five years. And I was loving

being creative online and trying to take like educational content and put it into a format that people could understand and enjoy and didn't feel like icky reading about or watching a video on. And I was loving that. But sex is so censored online, which is a whole other thing to talk about. But I got burnt out from not seeing anything happen from it. I was like, I'm putting so much effort into talk. about the stuff and nothing's happening. So last October I was like, I'll just give myself some time off. I'll stop my other Instagram page. Well, I had it already, which was just where I posted photos. And I was like, I'll just put, you know, all my other thoughts and feelings and things I'm passionate about into use that energy into this instead. And that's when ordinary M started.

And I started talking about how much I hated the influencer community. And yeah, trying to de-influence people just remind people what normal life looked like because I was bit sick to death of seeing what people were normalising and that was last November I posted one of my first videos and now we are here and if you do not already follow um ordinary m on instagram then please do because I think it is just even when I find myself getting so so so caught up in the pressures of what you see on social media it's just that breath of fresh air that interjection of like this is not real like None of this is real. Yeah.

And I cannot wait to come on to some of the products that we see a lot on social media. And we're going to go through your thoughts and feelings on all of them. I find it really interesting how sex and talking about vagina's penis, like even the other day I made a reel. And I was like, I'm going to call it the jitteris because I know if I say clitoris online, it's going to ruin. No one will see it. And I'd rather people see it and we call it the jicerois. Yeah.

But it's so interesting that we can't say vagina. We can't say penis. We can't say sex, consent, all these things without being censored. Yet women's bodies, when they are sexualized, are so much more palatable. And I find that in medicine as well is that sexualized female bodies are so much more talked about than female bodies just being bodies. Female bodies in terms of medical conditions, female bodies just existing. Female bodies, female brains that need sex ed, you know? It's infuriating.

and I really, really, really hope that one day we do get sex ed back. Next, I'd love to come on to you a big community question that we had, which was how to be kinder and stop negative self-talk. Such a big question. Of which I probably won't give a solid stunning answer, because I don't think there is one. One of the things I think that comes to mind is the second part about the negative self-talk. And I think like the whole self-talk,

thing is so like it's not actually your self-talk like when we say that it's kind of putting all this pressure on like us to fix this thing and your self-talk doesn't just happen in a void yeah like you don't just have these feelings about yourself if you think about like when you were younger you'd wear whatever the fuck you wanted you'd express yourself however you wanted you'd climb the trees and you'd do the things and you'd sing out loud and you wouldn't think about how you were perceived so like thinking wow how can I be kinder to myself it's like even then I don't remember being young and having like an internal monologue. And I know so many people like, I don't think Mitch has an internal monologue, but I have an internal monologue now. And I'm like, I don't remember

growing up without thinking like, if I climb this tree, what will those boys think? Or like if I, you know, decide to not wear the skinny jeans that all these girls are wearing. Like what will, that internal monologue like was what other people around me. It started as an external monologue, which wasn't my own. So I think the how can you be kinder to yourself is kind of like a cop out from like society being like you sort out the problem we gave you. Yeah. Because it's your negative self talk. We didn't do that. It was your negative self talk.

And I think the first thing you have to do is unlearn all the shit society has told you to think about yourself. And that is a huge thing in itself. Like remove yourself from all these beliefs. Like when you and I think when you're talking about a strategy, the. greatest advice I can give is always just ask why. When you're getting dressed and you're like, I need to put my scar on. Why? It's because like you think you'll look more professional or more put together or you'll be perceived a certain way when you go to work or out and about. And you keep asking those questions and you'll get to a point where you're like, oh, there's actually no good

reason why besides like the beauty industry getting money off of this. So ask yourself why in every instance that helps with the unlearning bit and then you find yourself in the next phase which is equally as hard of like what do i actually like so i haven't had my nails painted my entire life yeah before this year when i actually started getting them done professionally shout out maddie i love i'd only got them done for my matric dance which i think is equivalent to your prom we call it matric dance matric dance sorry i'll sick form or whatever you guys our last year is called matric and i Alma trick dances when you get like a makeup artist in, someone to do your hair, someone to do your nails. Got my nails done then, which was just like gel. I think I peeled them off the next day.

And then for my wedding in January. Those are only two times. Oh, and for my friend's wedding a year and a half ago. Those are only three times I got my nails done. And I just thought like I'm not feminine. I'm not like a girly girl. So my only other option is a tomboy. So I had to lean into that in like, and I thought these things weren't allowed for me. So then when I, found myself in the second phase of like what do I actually like in going through things and all these things I'd reject it I'd be like oh maybe I do like them then I got my nails done I was like these because I look more put together or do I really like these and I think that took a while for me and now I'm like no I really love getting my nails done with really cool colors like I'm not

a French tip girl because I feel like if I was doing that that would be leaning into like what I think I should be doing yeah versus like this is the way I found it works me. Yeah. So it's things like that. It's like when you're getting dressed, like, stop thinking about like what is flattering, which has been the self-talk you've been taught to have since you were aware of what getting dressed meant, which was like 13 for me with the age of skinny jeans where like absolutely hated that. And now I don't own a pair of fucking skinny jeans. Yeah. And baggy jeans have saved my life because I can actually get dressed and I'm comfortable. I feel like myself. And they are so unflattering that like it feels.

so free. Like I think we went charity shopping one day and I got these jeans, which are my favorite jeans and another pair of jeans from like and other stories. And I just picked them up because I like, I know they're really good jeans, good brand and they're a good price. So I tried them both on. The other ones were like straight legs, super like tight on my ass all the way down. Tried these ones on. And Mitch was like, I think you should get the other ones. And I was like, no. I'm getting these baggy jeans for me because I'm not getting dressed for the male gays anymore. You know? So I think I don't even know if I've on such a question, but I think in terms of how to stop negative self-talk, I think stop putting that pressure on yourself that this is a you problem.

It's society has made you think this way about yourself and learn all of that and then start having fun with figuring out what is actually who you are and be kind to yourself in that process. I think that's the most in it. I think that's the most incredible answer. And I think you've made such a good point about the pressure that we put on ourselves about negative self-talk because I say a similar thing about like social media addiction is we put so much blame and guilt on ourselves about being on our phones too much, being addicted to social media. When you have to remember these social media companies have got psychologists working teams of psychologists that are dedicating their lives to making you addicted to your phone and social media. When you, you know, succumb to that's temptation,

You are fighting a losing battle. You are fighting against people with degrees in, you know, people with years and years of experience in psychology. And it's the same with marketing companies. Like the beauty industry is built on women having negative self-talk about themselves. And taking that pressure off yourself is so, so important, remembering that you are fighting a very, very challenging battle. And actually those small wins of buying the baggy jeans that aren't tight on your ass,

getting your nails done just because you like getting. and your nails don't, are actually these micro winds that can help us build up our sense of self without the influences of these industries. Yeah, you're never going to stop negative self. Yeah. Unless you live on an island and you like completely extract yourself from this world, you will always be finding out stuff about yourself that you should be hating, feeling negative about yourself.

Like, you know, so feeling that thing about the underarm thing. I had no idea that was a thing until my mate, guys. told me it was an insecurity of hers at like 22 or 21 when we're in uni and she was like, oh, I just can't wear tops because, and I was like, what? And then I was like, oh, I also have that. Should I feel negative about that? And I think one of the greatest things you can do, instead of layering a negative emotion over this negative self-talk and this negative thing you're experiencing already is,

every time you notice yourself going, oh, that little thing over there, like positively reinforce it being like, I'm noticing. it's not just my default anymore like I am actually being like I think that way I'm actually not going to decide to think that anymore and I'm going to think about something else you can only think one thing at a time and if you are noticing that's the greatest thing because you're actually like waking up to the brainwashing you're experiencing of just like kind of like sleepwalking through life being told to think these things about yourself and as soon as it's kind of like, is it, I don't watch the matrix, but is it the red pill? I don't know. The pill where you

wake up to what's going on is the noticing that negative self-talk. Instead of, because then you're calling it negative self-talk instead of just the self-talk you think you should be having. Because you think everyone's always going around, especially as a woman, critiquing themselves because that just shows that, I don't know, you're like superior because you always want to be better. So you're always thinking about like, how can I be better? What's wrong with me? How can I improve this and smooth that and sculpt whatever. So the negative self-talk, it's like if you are noticing it, that's a huge one and like the biggest step because otherwise people just think that's how I think.

It's like, no, you can actually like stop yourself dead in those tracks. Yeah. Yeah. We're going to come on to how you reduce your anxiety and how you sort of managed that and got to the place where you are today. You know, you were at a place where like you were getting panic attacks like quite a lot. Yeah. It was really limiting how you were living your life.

And we're going to come on to, you know, how you manage that. But first, we're going to play a little bit of a game. Let's play game. And this is the buy or bye bye section. So I'm going to show you a product. When we've done this previously with other guests, I have actually bought the products. You'll be happy to know I didn't buy these products. Thank you.

We don't like overconsumption. Yeah, we're not overconsuming. First one I'm going to show you a picture of on my phone. And this is actually a product that I bought. I have a feeling you may be a little bit annoyed at me. It was my friends, Sophie's engagement party on the weekend, and I was wearing like a silky dress. And you know, and this is another one of those things, you know, where we said where a friend points out on insecurity. And suddenly they gifted you with that insecurity themselves.

I've had it with a friend who she saw a picture of herself and she was like, oh, my knees are wrinkly. And I was like, I have never been concerned with my knees being wrinkly ever before. Thank you for that. Yeah. And I'm sorry to any girls listening right now because I may impart an insecurity on you, but we're going to try and debunk it. When you wear a silk dress and you can see a belly button through it. Fucking stupid.

Imagine having a belly button. Imagine having a belly button, honestly. So I bought some skims. And this is the pair of skims compared to the size of my hand. My hands are like the size of a 12-year-old person. You know what I'm going to say bye-bye. Bye-bye. Bye-bye.

Bye-bye. Bye-bye. fucking thing. Buy another fucking billionaire. Yeah. Yeah. And I actually, Dylan actually was quite critical

because Sophie bought some and Sophie convinced me to buy some I'm going to blame Sophie. And then Dylan was like skims their work standards or their workplace ethics as bad as she in. Yeah.

He did tell me that after Biden, but that's not. So it's my responsibility so we've done that research beforehand. But now we keep that pair and you wear it on the people who made it. We don't just chuck it away.

Yeah. But we don't buy from billionaires anymore. We don't buy from billionaires anymore. So goodbye. And also you can keep your belly button showing. That's perfectly fine, you know. I think we needed that one. Yeah.

Yeah. Me personally, I needed that one. Yeah. Okay. Next. Waste trainers. Absolutely fuck off. Like, I think that's so bad for your internal organs as well, isn't it?

Like, what do you mean waste trainer? Training your waist to look like what? What does a waste? opposed to how do we like honestly the propaganda the brainwashing that had to happen for us to go like I need to train my

waste to be more waste like is just ridiculous so absolutely no ways I actually did buy one of these when I was like 12 I remember I got or did it behind my mom's back on the computer and then I think I wore it to school one day and I was like this is the most uncomfortable fucking thing I remember seeing people in the gym

wearing those and it was so normalized I think It was in the beginning of lockdown, like, people really started online normalising it. Yeah. And I was just like, I think I remember seeing like a graphic of like all your internal organs, like being squished out of that space. And I was like, where are we going with this? Like we're one step away from being back in like courting halls where people like call upon us to be like, yeah, you're a fair match for my, like, here's a corset for you to like not breathe then. You know, why is like our uncomfort such a. Yeah.

And I also think as well, what gets me with all of these things. is the way that we have a limited amount of energy in, like our energy is like a cup. Yeah. This is the amount of energy we have throughout the day. That is it. We can't have more. We can't have less.

We're not superhuman. As Molly Mae would say, we all have the same 24 hours in a day. Cheers, Molly Mae. That is how much energy we have. You can either spend that energy on, you know, putting passion into the things you love or the people you love or, you know, that energy where it will fulfill your life and make your life richer.

or you can put that energy into feeling uncomfortable wearing a waist trainer. And also, like, would a man buy it? No. No. So, no, I will not as well. Bye, bye. Next, push up bars. Oh.

I used to have one when I was 16. I have no boobs. Push at bras, sorry. What did you say? Push up bars. Push up bras. Exactly. Push up bras.

Goodbye. Okay. But I did buy once when I was 16. and I wore to school under like my sports top and looked like not myself at all. Yeah. And I'm pretty sure like my actual tit was like the tiniest part above like the padding and the rest was just padding. And I've ever since I don't even own a wire bra. I've only ever worn bra lettes since like the age of 18.

Would a man buy it? Probably not. Well, yeah. I would personally put them in the same category as the nails. I think if they make you feel good. Like, because I was an i-bitty-titty queen for until some certain interventions happening. But when I was an itty-bitty-girl, I do think I wore it for myself. Maybe that is the, and it is separating yourself from like the indoctrination, da-da-da-da-da. I think it is just working out.

Are you doing this because you think the boys can fancy you? Yeah. If you're doing it on like a girl's not out to Girls Only Club. Yeah. And, you know, if you're straight and there's no man there, Are you going to wear the push-up bra? Yeah. If you're going to go to an event where no male is perceiving you

or you're not trying to be sexually attractive to anyone and would you still put the push-up bra on? I think that's a good litmus test. Yeah. Next up, clean girl aesthetic. Any aesthetic can be by-bye because you're not an architectural movement or an object. So you don't have an aesthetic to fit into.

Like I think all of those are just the beauty industry like grasping at straws to be like, let's sell completely different new things and label the same skincare products differently. But it's the exact same thing just so you buy it again and you keep up with trains. Like clean goal as well is just such a such a weird one of like being put together. Like we are dirty otherwise. If you don't have like slick back hair and no makeup makeup and wearing is it like all beige? as well, Clean Girl. Like, I don't know, but I don't want any part of it. But that aesthetic I do also have beef with because I think that was one of the first

ones where people were like, I am not what everyone wants me to be and I don't fit this. Like, Slickback is great for me. I slick back my hair all the time. But not because I want to be part of the Clean Girl aesthetic. It's just something I like to do. But for other people who are trying to slick their hair back and be like, I hate this. Like I feel like a, you know, my hair's back like this. and it's like you don't need to keep moulding yourself.

I don't see men doing this. It is the shifting trends because if we didn't have trends, you could just own the same things. You could have personal style and then the world would fall apart without us, you know, continuously buying new things for every fucking aesthetic they come up with. Next.

Big water bottles. Buy one. Buy, but one. We don't need to be buying more than. one. I think one big water bottle, I have one big water bottle, and as long as you have one, but again, you're not making it a part of an aesthetic, or one of those flat lades that you have all of these things that are apparently part of what you need to be to be this type of person. Like, just drink your water, and if you enjoy it out of a big water, a big water bottle,

then I'm for it. But just by one. Just by one. Just by one. And good quality, so it lasts. Next we have, get ready with me. Morning Roosie. what I eat in a day. So tricky, because that's Instagram, isn't it? That's how a lot of people make a lot of money is get ready with me.

Here's my morning routine. What I eat in a day? What I eat in a day can fuck right off. But the other ones, or in general, it's just like, is it a kink that we all just want to like watch people live their lives? And just like,

we are going to have to come on to that because I think that some of my favorite content that you've done recently is all about like, there was something that you posted about how when life yeah when life inevitably flashes before your eyes will it be yours or will it be everyone else's morning routines and everyone else is what I eat in a day is and everyone else's travel blog posts and spots and photo ops and like what are we what the fuck are we doing with like our social media there's one thing to be like

addicted to your phone and to get this dopamine but like to watch people's lives and then it just gets even more like scary because it's like people are profiting off of that and making sure people need to keep up with their lives and I'm like I literally saw that piece of content I put my phone down because I've really been struggling so much more with doom scrolling since not working full time it's not having that restriction obviously doing the masters it being very self like I have to rely on my own motivation and not procrastinating than going into a hospital and I don't have a choice you know if someone's like if there's a patient to be seen i can't just scroll on my phone yeah whereas now i have really really been struggling with it so much more and then i saw that post that you

did and i was like phone down yeah like we have we have something weird going on with like watching other people live their lives i also think it is so like it is strange like setting up your camera to do every piece of like your routine and to like share it with everyone but again like everyone is allow to make their money and be financially independent and that's great. But I just think like we've got an obsession so much so with other people's lives that we're sat living through them instead of like living our own lives. Yeah. So completely bye-bye because I, I realized the other day I don't actually need to know like seven running influences marathon times or like your top five skincare things that I need to them buy. Yeah. That's not what I need to be keeping upstairs. There's so much other stuff

that's more worth it. Yeah. Pilates. I love Pilates. I think it's separating the trend from like what you like you can genuinely love something that is trendy. I see a lot with people being like,

I fucking hate running and everyone's running right now. That's so, so, so fine. Running is not going to be for everyone. As much as like the running influences will love to tell you running is for everyone, do they go to CrossFit? Do they go to Pilates? No, like there is different movement for everyone

and saying that only creates more shame around why doesn't this work for me. Yeah. But Pilates is a tough one because there is a stigma where Pilates instructors are like these thin, long-toned, ballerinas that are so gorgeous to look at as well as Pilates' class as being like really inaccessible when it's on the reformer.

And even like Matt Studios, they come off like really elitist. So there's a problem there, but there's also free Pilates on YouTube. And you can support those people. You can go to, go to, this is the same thing with like yoga as well, where it's been like commercialized and it's taken so far away from where it started, which was, I mean, yoga's more like in a completely different sense. And Pilates is more from like a movement, like, I think his name is like Joseph Pilates who started or whatever. And it's all about like breathing correctly and moving correctly and that's great and it's like would he really want people to be like putting down a small deposit house deposit for like a month's worth of Pilates you know

and then thinking you have to look a certain way to go to Pilates and only because you'll get certain body type that that movement brings next scrump-bum shorts you know they can they can bye bye like I don't ever want to see those ever again again, like, that's the whole, like, flattering thing. And I will keep coming back to this because it's one of the things that's actually helped me the most with, like, getting out of the groups of, like, diet culture and the beauty industry. It's like, they don't do that shit for men.

Yeah. Like, men's gym wear has looked basically the same for years and years and years and years and years. And it is about performance and what feels comfortable. And those are their options. And now maybe there's a little bit of fashion here. and there, some guy can wear a cropped vest if he wants to. But, like, that is the range versus us. It's always being about, like, pulling the boobs up more or cinching here or high-waisted

means you can actually look completely different. And, like, I want to just go to the gym and go to the gym. I don't need to worry about what my bum looks like in these leggings. The barrier for entry to go into the gym and moving your body becomes so much higher when you specify, like, what people. can wear. Like, you can go to the gym in a baggy t-shirt. We have an epidemic where people are not moving their bodies. We need to make sure that people know that they can move their bodies in whatever, you know? Literally.

Next up, matching branded jilers. For the most part, bye-bye. Like, I have two matching sets. That's probably a lie. I have one of the top of my head that my nana bought me for Christmas four years ago I have that matching set and then I have like a yellow one that I bought separately on Vinted like they're actually not from the same thing and I think I have things that maybe look matching but actually no I don't so no because like we were talking like barrier to like you do not need a matching branded gym's gym wear at all to do anything to move you will feel the same amount of dopamine and the benefits from physical exercise wearing a baggy tea

and comfortable trainers, then you will wearing the latest active wear from whatever brands the influences are pushing or partnered with. So, no, you absolutely don't need that. If you want, I don't know how I feel about the whole like new active wear inspires people to like get out there and like motivates people to. like I know people say and I think I've maybe felted once where I get a piece of clothing and I'm like I can't wait to wear this

so I will go to the gym to wear it but it's like what what a fucking privilege to be like I'll buy an expensive thing so I can go and do something that's really accessible right now to me only then will I get out there and do it and it's just like movement is one of the best things

you can do for yourself and we're saying now people need to spend like capitalism just doesn't take a fucking break does it like now we've also got to go out and find the most like things look exactly the same as last year but they're in different color tones and therefore like you can't even wear last year's color tones because these this year the color of the season is X or whatever they roll a dice and decide on and it's like that shouldn't be your barrier to to movement so absolutely like goodbye bye buy if you have the financial you're in the financial position to do that but do not put yourself out

thinking that that's what you need to do in order to enter the gym. You need the gym membership and that's about it. Yeah. I have something called the shit sandwich. So the shit sandwich is if I want to do something I'm procrastinating,

I pair it with like something that so the schis is in the middle and I make sure that there's something good at the beginning and there's something good at the end. Yes. So I find it with like if I'm wearing an outfit that I'm like, ah, kind of like, that makes me feel good.

That's maybe my like good that helps me get out. But then that kind of can also be having a big bloody bagels and then having like a quasson afterwards. Yeah. So like there are other things that you can do to incentivise. Yes. Maybe it shouldn't always be food. That makes it sound a little bit dodgy.

But like. Yeah, I know where you're going with it. And I just think whenever you think to yourself, you watch a piece of content and you go like, oh, maybe I should get that. If someone's saying to you as their only piece of advice. Yeah. A new pair of shoes or a new matching outfit gets you to. do the germ, it'll inspire, motivate you.

If that's the only thing they have to fucking offer you, I'm pretty sure they're going to be putting a discount code or a link somewhere else in that same caption. It's an ad or they have something to gain from it. And that's where my beef with the influencer community comes in because you're just profiting of other people like, you know, insecurities and their like confusion of getting into these spaces. And that's just really not cool.

It's not cool. If you think that about a piece of content, like just think for a second, like, oh, am I only thinking that. so I make their money, you know? Yeah, I do indeed. Trend-specific beauty products. Bye-bye. Bye-bye.

This is just over-consumption core to the max, isn't it? Like, everyone just hopping on everything. The amount, we've normalized bathroom cabinets having multiple and multiple and multiple amounts of products inside. It's not okay for your wallet or for the planet. it and like we actually need to get a grip. We really need to get a grip, especially when it comes like, if you have acne and stuff, there are very few things that are actually going to work for you.

And often a lot of the time it's like medical or like medical grade products. Stop jumping on every trend available. It's all just the same thing in different packaging. And like you actually, like I know we'll keep saying and it will keep being true. But the beauty industry is so good for sitting down and having meetings and being like, how can we spend this a different way and we'll do it so cleverly that like people just hop on without even a second thought it's like you do have to be having a second thought like for everyone at this point like as well as for yourself like you're just ruining your skin as well as your

and i mean beauty products everything and then just think about all this shit that's not being emptied in your cupboard and how much you throw away and how much is landing in landfill and we're just producing so much more than we need and that i could spiral forever on that but like guys No. Stop. Stop with that. Bye. Bye. Goodbye. Finally, freckle pens. So interesting, isn't it? Like, I'm not going to buy a freckle pen. I don't have freckles compared to my sister. She's the freckley one. And I have often wanted to have freckles, but I'm not going to buy a thing to like, again,

would Mitch buy a freckle pen? Probably not. If he doesn't want to be putting freckles on his face, then I'm not going to be doing that either. That's just another like weird thing we've let people profit off of is like, here's a new product, just puts on your face. You pay someone who's got enough like social currency to make it cool. Yeah. And then people will be doing it. Yeah.

But if I was the first person to come up with a freckle pen and I was doing it, no one would think it was cool. I think it's the same with like the tabby shoes, you know, like the ones with the toes. is you pay someone with enough social currency to make it cool or someone who just decides to do it. Yeah. And everyone and everyone follows. Like that's just one of those things as well. Like you don't actually need to be doing it.

And would you actually like it unless people weren't pushing it or you weren't seeing it by people who you aspire to or like, I don't know, have some weird parasocial relationship with? You've touched on some really important points about your beef with influences, which we will come on to in just a moment. I mean, after I noisily put these pieces of paper away. I want to come on to how your personal journey with anxiety. How did you get to where you are today? Hmm. So I think the anxiety is one of those things that I would say I wasn't aware of until you like start talking about it and you're like, oh, not everyone feels this way.

And I'm very lucky to say, like, I only feel anxiety now, like very here and there in very rare occasions. but it's not part of like my day to day, which it used to be. I would say anxieties also looked very different for me throughout my life. I think growing up, I always wanted to do while the things, do well at school, and that was always driven by anxiety, even though I'd say like, oh, it's cool to set goals and to achieve them, but ultimately it was like, if you don't achieve these, like, what are you? Like, you are nothing. Like it was so performance-based and linked to me.

myself worth that I was so anxious about it. But I would, luckily, there's so many double-edged swords, I think, like, in my, like, growing up with exercise and food, but I would expend all of that anxious energy exercising because I was in the top teams. I loved working out anyway, thankfully, and I loved playing those sports, hockey and water polo. And so, like, training and practicing all the time, like, gives you that outlet of that energy, that anxious energy. And then I could kind of like get on with the rest of my day. I did like completely push myself in every direction of like always studying, always trying to do the best, get the best marks.

And then when I got to uni and I wasn't very good at my course per se, and I was like, I don't actually really like doing this. Like I want to be more creative. I thought Octetia would be more creative, a bit more artsy. I just filled my time with everything else. And I've always been like a busy person. I think I get it from my mom as well who probably links herself worth to like productivity. and how busy she is and I grew up watching that and I just thought if I'm always productive

like nothing bad can happen to me or I'm not a bad person if I'm just like always moving always doing something always ahead of like this anxious feeling there's nothing to be anxious about if I'm like literally doing everything and I'm never like dropping the ball and then I started doing some subjects in uni for my architecture degree and I was like I absolutely hate this I'm not going to be good at it and then like anxiety was like gosh you bitch like here we are what are you gonna do now like you can't just overachieve or do really well in these things to prevent this feeling yeah it was in the last year of my course that I started having like panic attacks about like not being able to get the work done not not not being able to get

the work done to like a standard I would want or potentially failing and then all of that started spiraling I was like oh my god I actually hate this I don't even want to get a career in this so why am I doing this and my dad who's like my favorite person in the whole world and when he told me like you don't need to be experiencing anxiety for anything at 21 and if you can control it and get yourself out of that situation like you need to and he was like so like quit like stop your course I had two months to go and one part of that course one subject to finish finished all of all of the other ones handed them in past everything else except for this one subject and he was like it's not worth it. And I was so glad he told me that because from then on everything in my life that,

again, you can't just say if it's giving you anxiety, it's not worth it. And you shouldn't try to push through or try to manage or cope with your anxiety. But I was just like, oh, like I actually don't need to be hanging around these people or doing these things. And I would say one of the top things with managing anxiety is, well, for me anyway, has been around people who don't make me feel anxious, which is something I didn't realize I could choose and control. Like you were saying, sometimes you don't know you have an insecurity. And so you're around people who are talking about said insecurity. When you're around people who are just negative or I wouldn't even say like anxious people, but people who like create, you know, my anxiety would like pep up because they are being

negative or because they are gossiping about someone or something like that, I'll just be like, oh, I don't want to be here. And then my anxiety would like creep up. So I've made sure to be like really, really conscious and intentional about the people I do surround myself with when I can control that. Like now my friend, my friendship group, I don't have any anxiety around like, do they like me? Do, you know, because I know that the people I've surrounded myself with wouldn't be thinking that if I'm late. I know you're not going to think I'm an awful person and I hate you and, you know, versus that's what I was thinking. And it was because I was part in parcel like anxious so those thoughts were winning, but also because those people weren't reaffirming and probably were also like not the greatest.

And they would have thought those things about me perhaps. And now I'm like, no, I know Faye's not going to think that. I know Mitch is not going to think. I know Ella's not going to think that about me, blah, blah, blah. So I have those people around me. And then I'd say the top thing for anxiety and then I'll leave it because I'm not an expert. And I think my environment has hugely made a difference. Like I work as a nanny outside of all of this, which is a very low stress environment, unless you want to make it stressful.

But very low stress and I've chosen that route because I don't think I'd manage in an office. Like, and I think choosing your environment in that way if you have the privilege to do so is a huge thing. And the second thing is just speak all your thoughts out loud. Yeah. Because then you can't spiral because you're like, you start speaking and you're like, that's ridiculous. And you don't allow. Versus when it's in your head, you go on forever and ever and ever. and making this wild, wild assumptions

and getting to places where it makes no sense to be there. But when you start saying them out loud and you just start saying, okay, I'm really stressed because I'm late to Faye's podcast. Like, why am I stress? It's because I think Faye's going to say these things about me. She's not going to want to be my friend anymore. And then if you say that out loud, you're like,

what? Faye has been late to every single time. Every single time I know Faye's late. So I would definitely not think. Exactly. So talking out loud is the biggest strategy I've found. But I know for other people who have not like as mild anxiety as I have, I would say like seeing someone speaking to someone's always a great option.

I know friends who that has helped them massively. I know with Mitch's anxiety because he's even more anxious with me, he's always got to just like remind himself like it's not that deep. And he has to like out loud say these things are actually, it's not that crazy. And I think it's the out loud thing that. really helps. And I think what's really important with the out loud thing is having, like what you said, having those people. And what I really, really want to come on to is, you know, how everything you've done with your ordinary girls club where you are creating an environment where, you know, people might not

find their best friends there, but they can find people and then decide if those people are going to be their best friends, decide if those people are the people they want to hang around with in this society that has become increasingly lonely where people do not have those. relationships where they can speak those anxious thoughts out loud, you know? But before we come on to that, I really want to talk about your beef with influences. What are your three biggest beefs with influencer culture? I don't think I can pinpoint three specifically, but I'll say like some of the things that just come to mind. And I think the thing we've spoken about a lot and the thing I've struggled with in like my journey to make money off of Instagram and try to do that ethically

if there is such a way. And the thing I keep coming back to and something like my partner always tells me is, you know, you're allowed to make money. Like you have the right to be financially stable and so do all of all these other girls. And I see that and the influence industry is female dominated, which is a big sleigh. But I think when we all just say we have the right to be financially stable above everything else and it's like, I'm. allowed to make money in this world. It's like, how are you any different to like, you know, that's the worst mindset. All of these people who are greedy, who don't care about like processes and ethics and stuff. That's how they all get to where they are is because they say,

I get to make money. I'm allowed to do this. And I'm just like, surely there's a way I can make money through it where I'm partnering with brands who align with me, make sense with me, or even if they don't, it's at the end of the day, it's an exchange where I've got X amount of followers, an audience, you can pay to be in front of them. But I think it's like there are brands out there that aren't, you know, mistreating their workers who are paying them fairly, who also aren't creating millions and millions of products and items of clothing every single year that are ending up in landfill, who don't care about where their clothes land up and they're all washing up on the shores of like Ghana and stuff like that. And I think what I hate, one of the things I hate most about it is like I don't want to seem like I'm not a girl's girl.

because at the heart of it all I am a girl's girl, so much so that I care about the women and children who are working in these factories who are being subcontracted by the brands factories who are actually who meet the markers of like being safe indoors and stuff like that and fair pay and fair wages, all of that.

But then they know that they're being subcontracted to other factories where these things aren't happening and people are unsafe and people are being held there and all of that really scary stuff that somehow the influences manage to detach from completely when they are saying like, buy from Primark, when they don't even buy from Primark. And it's like you can't, don't claim,

or don't claim that this is a feminist movement where you get to make money and be financially stable. When you don't care about the woman and the people, like on the shores of like West Africa where these clothes are landing up and they have to clean up all of your shit. If every person who follows you, which, you know, I'm a very small fish in this very big pond, and people have way more followers than me.

And if they are all saying, run, don't walk, you need this, you need this. Fucking, that's one of my biggest pet peeves. Like, unless it's life-saving medical care or water, shelter and food, you probably don't need it. And they're telling their followers to go and buy these products. If everyone used your link, if everyone used your code and bought these products, our planet will literally not recover. Like, and if you are doing that and you're making it an urgent thing, a sense of urgency, where they are not even considering their purchases and they're just trying to get it because

there's a sale and it's happening now and you need this product and you guys, this is my, you know, active wear wish list of like 15 products. Imagine all your followers buying all of those products. You'd make a killing and you'd also be killing off the planet. And like that just, I don't get the disconnect. Like I don't think I'm being incredibly radical to think about the sustainability element of the sort.

and like the people who actually make these products. Like if you are saying to me, guys, the set is five pounds. Like I can't believe it. I'm like, how can you not believe it? Are you that like? And I don't believe as well a lot of the time, which is, it's made me quite cynical in this, which I hate because I always say I'm like a serial optimist. Like I'm a positive person.

But when it comes to the influence world, I'm so cynical now because I'm like, I know a lot of them know better. and I know that you know that these brands are not doing a great thing and are, you know, are happy with the amount of products they're making. They find that it's washing up. They know they're not paying their people properly. They know the quality is shit. And then the influencers are like, it's only five pounds.

I'm like, if you're not paying someone else is, and you know that, like I know you know that. So I just think that pisses me off, pisses me even more off when they use their ads in like a feminist way of like, you know, girls supporting girls. I'm just like, you're not supporting the girls you're making these products.

What about the people who made the products you wear? And like we have a lot of existential conversations about like this industry. Yeah. Because it is a very, very tricky space to be. And there's something that M said to me that I really, really, really always try and come back to is like your role as someone with a social platform who is working with brands should be,

you have the opportunity to try out all these different products. and then come to your audience with the one that you think is worth their money. And that always, always, I try in, because I think also coming back to the whole overconsumption thing, it's very easy to think that you should have five different moisturizers. You should have five different matching gym sets when all the, when you are fed this social media feed of people who have five different gym sets, six different winter coats. More than that. seven different moisturises. Like that is not realistic

and I think it's really important to remember that not only our influences profiting off promoting those things but they are getting sent those for free. For free. The pressure I think people feel to have huge, huge

huge wardrobes full of clothes, bathroom cabinets full of skin care because of these unrealistic standards that have been set is killing the planet. And I don't think there's any way around that. And people, mental health as well. Like you're saying, I think also like a great thing or great piece of advice

as well is for people to like just kill who you're following. Like you don't need to be following six faybates. Like follow one. If you want to follow a running girl that inspires you. And when I say inspires you, I don't mean someone you just go like, oh wow, I love what they're wearing. Add to cart and like don't and then just scroll on. Like I also, there's this thing going around where, you know, people say like, But Instagram inspires me and like, that's why I'm on it all the time. And I'm like, inspiration is literally getting you to act. Like that is, you feel something and motivate you to do something about it. And that's not what we're even doing.

We're just consuming. And if you're following like 10 different running influences or 10 different makeup beauty or hair or fashion girlies, you are creating your like normality and you're what you perceive to be a reality for other people. when in fact like that's actually not what's going on for 99% of people don't own that many coats have a very small amount of skincare have socks with holes in them you know like repair stuff or lend or whatever instead of buying you all the time with every season and with every trend like and I think it peaves me off when influences don't acknowledge how unrealistic or how I know

some people follow influences because of how unrealistic is and how far removed it is. it's nice to like almost watch these rich people or these people have these experiences that I know I'll never have. But then there's like another level down where people are still aspiring to you. They're following you because they think they can be or they want to be you or they want to have your life or, you know, it's not as simple as like they just like your outfits. A lot of the time people are like, I really want to be this person or be like this person. And do, so like do influencers have the responsibility to be like, guys, stop comparing? to me or does that like break the facade and like the the mask that they're putting up or like this reality does it like come shattering down where people are like oh I shouldn't actually

want to be like them because I will never get that stuff for free and that kind of makes me feel shit about myself so maybe I'm not going to follow them and engage with their stuff so I'm actually not going to so sometimes it doesn't actually work in the influence's favor to be open and honest that's why we see people putting like gifted as small as fucking possible on the story where you have to like detective get a magnifying glass out to be like, is this product gifted? And it's like, it shouldn't be like that. I know that sometimes it can be because of bad engagement and like people don't want to always see that you're getting stuff for free, but that is the case.

And if you're not making it very out there, people will continue to compare themselves to you and feel shit about themselves. And it's like, again, I know influencers know those. Some of them since being in the industry. I know that people, like you said, we have this opportunity, which is the one way I've kind of made peace with making money in this way. Because I would also love to make money. I would love to send my parents on vacation or pay off their mortgage or buy a house and feel financially stable in this, you know, shit show of a world. But like, I think I've found a way where it's like, I know that I have this opportunity to get some stuff for free, which is crazy, crazy privilege.

but it's an opportunity to help other people purchase more informed. Like buy stuff more informed, which means they actually use it, they actually wear it, they keep it for longer and it stops them from buying other shit. Versus when people are just, and I know that some influencers don't use the products that they do ads for, they don't actually use the skincare that they claim change their skin. Like that's a photo from four years ago and that's the skin that they've gotten through, you know, expensive facials and gifted treatments, blah, blah, blah. I know that's actually happening

and that like just like do you not have any regard for the people who actually follow your are they just numbers you know yeah we're going to come on to the real or real as in like Instagram real space there's something I want to say and I'm going to have to fact check this to make sure it's true because it came out

my brother's mouth this weekend so it might be complete bollocks he said do you watch traitors I watch traitors yes when he told me this it has completely changed my perspective on everything. I'm scared. Medical misinformation, social media, politics, everything. My brother told me that the concept behind traitors was developed by an Australian, Austrian political scientist to show people how the people with information can manipulate people

without information, okay? And anyone listening, I just want you to sit with that and think about all the ways that applies to the world that we are living in right now politically. social media-wise with influences what you're saying, where they have information that people consuming that content do not have. And like for me, medical misinformation, you know, the way that people spread conspiracy theories, medical misinformation, mistrusting the medical establishment through,

you know, and they can manipulate other people, you know? And I think it's just something I think we should all take moving forward. When we watch the traitors and we think to ourselves, how are all these faithfuls being so, stupid like jump into conclusions attacking other people without that information but then look at what we do in our own lives in so many of these systems that actually echo that like even if that's not fact checkable and that's not like I believe it and it's something to take it's just like a metaphor for yeah everything else and it is so true and it's so it's also been really

sad to have joined the influencer world or I prefer to be a D-influencer, but influencer is great as well. You know, influences an insane thing to have on anyone and a huge privilege and a great responsibility, not just a financial opportunity like so many people see. But like it's so sad to know and to have heard from other influences about other influences that they all know this person doesn't use this or that they don't actually like this or they actually use something completely different and da-da-da-da. and it's all like swept under the rug because they are the group that's manipulating.

You know, like, and I'm an anxious people pleaser and this has been a hard thing for me because I'm like, I don't, every time I want to talk about influencer red flags or critique the influencer community, I don't want people to think like, oh, she's just jealous or she's just envious or she's not a girl's girl or like I probably sound like so fucking miserable and it makes me feel so fucking miserable. When I'm like looking at ads and I'm turning. down money that, you know, I'm like, wow, what a privilege to be offered that money for, potentially like not a lot of work at all. And that should be like, again, morally, I'm like, what am I doing to turn down that money? I could give that to my parents or it could go. Like,

you know, we said maybe a boycott brand comes along and they're like, work with us. We'll give you so much money and you're like, but I could give it to charity. And it's like, but that's, if everyone thinks that way, we're just going to have, you know, people who shouldn't be profiting off these things, profiting off these things, and saying like, I can just give it to charity or I can do something good with it. It's like, that's just not good enough. There should be an option where I can only work with people or I can keep saying no to brands that are shit. And hopefully everyone else does.

But when other people aren't doing it, it's hard to like, they're just like, okay, see ya. We won't work with you again. It's like, okay, well, that didn't make a lot of change. But at least I'm not making anyone else buy from this product or this brand or spread a message that they made sure I had to say in the brief that I don't agree with, you know. So now we're going to come on to our next section, which is, is this real or real, as in Instagram real? And I'm going to play you two short pieces of social media content. This is my meal. I call this girl dinner.

Girl dinner. And then the second reel. I like how girl dinner started as this funny trend where it's like random things that girls piece together and eat for dinner. Like, it's like Annie's Mac and cheese, some pretzels and frozen mango like girl dinner and then slowly it got like overtaken by like the wrong side of tic-tok and it's just like these girls being like oh my god like one cube of cheese like girl dinner it's like no like let's not glorify that because i think that's called something else like i just want to like watch the girlies like piece together their fun little meals like i don't need you to

like tell me how little you ate on ticot you know what i'm saying any thoughts feelings and i just see right the toxic diet culture team because I believe there's a team, you know, they, I don't know, in the Swiss old someone like the traitors. Like the traders. They're around a table. Someone's called a meeting and they're like, we have an opportunity here. Girl dinner, they come with that reel and they say, so this is what I think we need to

put our efforts into for the next few weeks. Next quarter. Let's, for Q4, let's really weaponize this girl dinner trend and let's make it something else. And I think so much of, like we were saying earlier, like it's so clever. and you're not going to, often you're not even going to realize you're looking at diet culture or like toxic beauty standards in a way that you think you will. It's not that outward. They are so sneaky and so clever. And like, of course it was going to go this way. Like, Girl dinner is fun and we all have it. And I've also seen like those ones when it's like when the boys,

when, you know, my husband's out or my partner's out and I can just have dinner with no protein. You know, and it's kind of just like, it reminds me. of my mom who I think eats too little. And growing up, I remember watching her like eat little biscuits and cheese for lunch. And I was like, and you don't need to be eating so little. But it's something from their generation that I know. It's so you want to have that small amount on your plate and be full. And we were even just away for the weekend with Mitch's mom. And she'll say after like one KFC or KFC, after one McDonald's, what, they're called chicken tender things.

She'd have one and she goes, oh, you're full, like, I'm full. You know, it's those reels where it's like, you're with your mother's generation and they're all like, can't eat that. I'll only have a slither. I'll only have so ingrained. And it's kind of like, this is how they're trying to feed it to us.

Because we've all been like, no, I'm not going to eat like a bird anymore. I'm actually going to have a full meal. I'm going to try and find out about, like, what a nutrition meal actually looks like. Not that you have to eat that for every single fucking meal, but also like, you can't. you can't just eat pasta and olive oil like every day only like an act of self-love is to give yourself

nutrition you know a good amount of nutrition every now and then not in the sense of like clean foods and only ever eating that and food is fuel which is also just like you know bullshit like food is so much more than that but they've weaponized them they're so clever and they're so sneaky that they've taken something that was fun and been like look how little i can eat and And people are consuming that and are thinking to themselves like, my girl dinner was a bit bigger than that. Like my girl dinner was a potato waffle sandwich. Yeah, my girl dinner is like a big bowl of pasta with like everything that was left in the fridge. Like it's not just little bits, you know.

And then you're going, hmm, maybe it should have been a little bit less. I don't know. And that's how that's how they get you. They like get you in like that. And then you're looking up girl dinners and then it's like you're basically eating like a bird again. Yeah. You know, yeah. And I think you touched on a really important point of like the,

an act of self-love is eating nutritious foods as well. Because I think if, you know, girl dinner probably exists because, yeah, your boyfriend's out and suddenly you don't have that caring. You only think that a proper dinner is deserved by, you know, that woman in you that's the care that is taught to be the carer, the nurturer,

that when there are other people you are cooking for, you think they deserve a nutritious meal, but actually when you're alone. And don't, don't, like, don't get me wrong. I love Gildana as well. That's mine, potato waffle sandwich, always. Potato waffle sandwich, smothered and ketchup, always. But not all the time and only as yum.

Yeah. Yeah. And it's not just, it's because I can't be bothered. But, like, actually, I don't know, reframing and thinking, wait, I would never serve that up to Dillon. Yeah. Because I think that he deserves nutrition. Why do I not deserve nutrition?

I want Mitch to be able to go to work today and or go to work tomorrow and, you know, have mental clarity and energy to get on and off the tube and come back home and not by like 11am feel lightheaded and dizzy, which is what these, often if you were to eat these gulden as every fucking night is what will happen because you're not getting any long lasting nutrition out of that. But I did also want to like quickly caveat and say that like we are also both like whenever I should have said it like in the beginning, but all of my insights of coming from like, I've been straight side. my whole life. Like I've never looked unhealthy and I've never, which is also something I've

grappled with which I don't have a before picture. So do I even have a place to say like I had a disordered relationship with eating because I looked healthy. But if you are having these thoughts about food all the time, like you are sick enough to seek out help or you're sick enough or that experience of yours was still valid even though I didn't, I don't have a before picture where I'm super skinny and I look really unhealthy. And then now I'm. not. I've kind of looked pretty much the same all throughout, which just proves that you actually really never know. But what was important, I was talking about this with Mitch the other day, because I posted something that went pretty viral and someone was like, you're, it's easy for

you to say, like, you're skinny or you're small, your size eight or whatever. And someone even every now and then will say, like, oh, but you're pretty. And it's like, when I finally stopped feeling this way about myself and, like, finally ran away from delight culture, almost. most for good. It obviously still comes back every now and then and you just have to know that that's what's going to happen, but I have the tools to sort it out now, is that it wasn't someone who was in a bigger body than me, who inspired me to stop going after this body that I thought was ideal and had to be mine. It was someone who was smaller than me, who I had perceived to have the perfect body, the perfect life, surely must be healthy and happy, and she was like, I'm always

thinking about food. I hate myself because being smaller does not give you an armor to diet culture. And I think once you learn that, it's like if you're looking at me and you think, oh, it's easy for you to say like you're skinny, it's like I can tell you in this body at this weight, in this size genes, I was not protected from the vicious attack and messages that diet culture does because they do it different. They come after you with different weapons, whether you're size 16 or whether your size eight or six or four, they have a different strategy for you. So yes, of course, like,

I know it's easier to walk throughout the world in a smaller size body because that's unfortunately how it is and that's what I'm also trying to take down. But for me, it was listening to someone or seeing someone who I perceive to have the body I want, who I would have said, easy for you to say, your size six, you've got thighs that don't touch and you've got a lean tone tummy.

When I heard that they weren't protected from it, I was like, well, that's actually what I'm running from here is like this food noise and this internal monologue of like the smaller you you are, the happier you'll be. If I can tell you in this body that your weight doesn't actually protect you from that or getting to a certain physical appearance doesn't protect you from that, I hope that that's what sets you free, not that listening to other women in bigger bodies inspired me to be like, oh my God, there's confidence in other body shapes. But it was ultimately someone who was smaller than me. And it's like to try and silence someone who's smaller than you by saying,

easy for you to say, it's like, guys, we're not against each other. We're all against fucking diet culture. So I just want to say as well, I'm aware that like I'm in this body and I look this way and I know that I have, you know, quote unquote pretty privilege moving through the world and it's easier for me in wearing size eight jeans. But it doesn't stop you from getting that diet culture attack all the time. So that shouldn't be the reason you're trying to get smaller. That's what I was. Don't even where I started, but I was like, I needed to say that as well because it's such an important point because it's also invalidates the experience of women who

are naturally, you know, fall at a lower weight, who are naturally slimmer. Yeah. You then also maybe have accusations of having an eating disorder that isn't warranted. So it's, it's recognizing that there are different ways that your body can present that don't correlate with that emotional struggles. Yeah. I last final point. I want you to tell me all about the ordinary girls club how it came about and where that is going in the future and where the girlies can find you if they are lonely and they need a community.

Thank you. So the ordinary girls club is my baby and basically what I say to all the girls when I meet them at the events and we chat about why I started, why I started it. When I first moved to London four years ago, I moved by myself, my best friend moves like a month after and she had her. housemates. I was a living nanny, so my colleagues were like 10 and 11 year old boys. So there's no like office community or like an opportunity to make friends in that way. But I had my friend and she had her housemates. So I had her. So I would like piggyback of her friends. And then I met Mitch and then I'd piggyback off of his friends. And then I moved in with Mitch and his housemates and I'd just piggyback off of their friends. And I had lots of friends and I had a great time. But there wasn't any people who were like, these are my friends that I've found through whatever other way. Because I didn't really have those other ways. And at that point, there were some events, but not events specifically

for making friends. I felt like I'd go to an event to make friends and people were just there for the influencer or for the event in groups. And I was like, oh, hi, like, this is clearly a friends group that I've just infiltrated and they aren't yet to make friends and chat to me. So, like, felt really awkward. And then last year when I lived up in the Scottish borders with my partner in his hometown, I felt much more lonely than I expected. I joined the gym and a hockey club, and I was the only one there with a foreign accent. I was the only one in the club whose, like,

mom hadn't played for the club, and I felt very far away from home, living up there in a small town, and everyone had been friends with each other from school, had been in their cliques, and they weren't there to make friends. And I was like, that's fair enough, and I think what I've learned about loneliness is often,

it's like, it has more to say about, like, your circumstance than it does to say about you, Like I know I'm a good friend And since moving back to London I've made the best friends And I know that I'm I wasn't lonely because of who I am Like it wasn't a character flaw

Or something that meant I was lonely It was because of the circumstance Like no one else really wanted a friend They weren't looking for a friend And people if they don't want a friend Then like I'm not going to force them To like come to coffee with me When they have a single moment

You know So when I came back to London in Fairb I was like I really want to start my own club With the idea of come alone as like the rule so that you know that everyone else there is on the same page as you and they're there to make friends. And we basically do absolutely anything and everything. We have Hi Rocks a Sunday. We had Pilates last Sunday. We have Craft Club. We have lino printing. We are doing a friends misdinner. And then from when I come back next year, we're just going to try and get weekly

events back up and running, doing everything you can. So you can come and then keep seeing those people over and over again so you can actually foster connection. Instead of just going to a event once, and you have all this pressure to find someone's Instagram handled by the end of the night and then try and see them again. It's like, I'll do all the planning. You girls come and being biased, but also not,

they are the best girls ever. So if you want to come join that, we are Club for Ordinary Girls on Instagram and it's also in my bio. And I think it's so, so needed when we're all so glues to our phones having those in real life connections. In real life, yeah.

In real life connections. What it's about? We have been asking every guest on this podcast, the same question. What do you wish every woman knew by the time she was 25? I would say, what beliefs are you holding that keep lots of white old men rich? Like, what beliefs, like who is making money off of your beliefs? And when you realize that, like, you know, I think of the top 100 beauty makeup industry, all of those products, those brands are the top 100. I think only four have females in like executive positions.

God. So like you are believing all these problems about yourself set by men to keep men rich. And I think once you know that, that's so much easier to like detach on that. Because I could say like there's also so many beautiful ways I could tell you. Like, you know, when you go to your grave, no one's going to remember your weight. And, you know, your friends don't introduce you because you don't have wrinkles and, you know, all of that wonderful stuff, which is great to know. And it's true.

but I think the thing that made me change was like I'm holding so many beliefs that are literally just keeping old white guys rich and I'm not in the business of doing that anymore. So by 25 I hope people know that as well. And I think that means that every time you do not buy those things, it makes you feel that little bit of power. Hell yeah. You're taking that money straight out of their pocket and keeping it for yourself

and then maybe have it. The woman before us protested for, you know. Love. Yeah. Thank you so bloody much for coming on. it's been an absolute privilege as always as every yak is but I'm so happy I get to share

our Yap's with the Who Discussions community so thank you so much for having me thanks