Here's Where It Gets Interesting - A Prolific Public Media Career with Cathy Wurzer

Episode Date: April 20, 2022

In this episode, Sharon talks with Emmy-Award winning broadcast journalist Cathy Wurzer about the role of public media in the U.S. To start, Cathy shares how she got into broadcast journalism, and the joy she feels in connecting with her listeners. Cathy believes that the soul of public radio lies in its ability to reach and cater to communities; to be free to be quirky and not beholden to ratings. They also talk about the ways in which covering politics has evolved over the years, why Minnesota has the highest voter turnout rates in the country, and the misconceptions people may have about public media news slants. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

It's hockey season, and you can get anything you need delivered with Uber Eats. Well, almost, almost anything. So no, you can't get an ice rink on Uber Eats. But iced tea, ice cream, or just plain old ice? Yes, we deliver those. Gold tenders, no. But chicken tenders, yes. Because those are groceries, and we deliver those too.

Along with your favorite restaurant food, alcohol, and other everyday essentials. Order Uber Eats now. For alcohol, you must be legal drinking age. Please enjoy responsibly. Product availability varies by region. See app for details. What do Ontario dairy farmers bring to the table? A million little things.

But most of all, the passion and care that goes into producing the local, high-quality milk we all love and enjoy every day. With 3,200 dairy farming families across Ontario sharing our love for milk, there's love in every glass. Dairy Farmers of Ontario, from our families to your table, everybody milk. Visit milk.org to learn more. Hey friends, delighted to have you along. Today I am chatting with somebody who, if you're from Minnesota, I bet you know who she is. And if you're not, soon you will.

She is a legend in public radio. Her name is Kathy Werzer, and she's been covering politics as a broadcast journalist for Minnesota Public Radio for decades. And she has an absolutely unique perspective, both on politics in the United States, but also on the role of public media in America. So let's dive in. I'm Sharon McMahon, and welcome to the Sharon Says So podcast. Kathy, I'm so excited to chat with you today. Thank you for making time to do this. I know this has been a busy 20 years for you covering politics. Yes.

If you are not a Minnesotan, if you're not listening from Minnesota, Kathy, tell everybody what you do. I am a broadcast journalist with Minnesota Public Radio News, I co-host a long-running public affairs show on Twin Cities PBS seen on the stations of Minnesota Public Television and I'm also the founder of a non-profit called End in Mind Project. And what does that do? What does End in Mind do? Well don't let the name freak you out. I talk about death and dying. Actually, I know, really. That's interesting. I'm in only a Minnesota way you would say that too. Oh, that's interesting. You should see people back away from me at cocktail parties when I say that.

It is a nonprofit that just, we prepare people for the inevitable serious illness, disability, living with loss and grief, and how to live with death and dying. And people don't talk about these things. No one gives you a roadmap. So we are kind of conversation starters at End of Mind. That's fascinating. What made you interested in doing that? made you interested in doing that? You know, it was a long running project at NPR news, probably about what, six or seven years at this point with a man who was an amazing human. His name was Bruce Kramer and he was the Dean of the College of Education at the University of St. Thomas. And he had ALS, Lou Gehrig's disease, which is a terrible, horrible disease that just affects all the muscles in the body from walking to talking to breathing to eating everything, you know. And I met Bruce through a coworker who said, you know, you should talk to this guy because he's blogging so eloquently about his life with ALS. But you know what? Not to sound crass, but I thought, look, thousands and thousands of

people are diagnosed with some terrible illness every single day. What, how is this guy any different? And I held it off and held it off and held it off. Finally, I acquiesced and just caped and had Bruce in studio. I was going to do a one and done, which is just, as you know, in the business, you just, you get, you get them in once it's you're done. You'll never, you'll never see him again. However, Bruce was incredibly eloquent. It was a two hour interview. And I thought, Hmm, wow, there's something here because Bruce just didn't focus on the illness. It was a philosophical look at your life, just living with something that is going to kill you somewhere along the line.

And it was, it was, it's turned into an amazing series of conversations over five years with the man until he died. And so upon his death, he asked me to look for the ripples in our work together. And I thought, I have no idea what that is. After all this time on the radio, we wrote a book together for the University of Minnesota Press. I didn't know what the heck it could be. Well, it turned out to be this nonprofit. So the work, that's how it all started. I love that. Okay. Here's one of the first things I would love to know is what attracted you to broadcast journalism? What about it was when you got started all those years ago, were you like, oh, the siren song of broadcast

journalism is calling my name? Actually, I never anticipated being a broadcast journalist. I wanted to be a newspaper reporter. And it was in college where I, on a dare, went up to the college radio station to write the news. Because back in the day, you were not allowed to write for the college newspaper until you were a junior. And I was a freshman drinking way too much beer. I thought I would do something with my time beyond what I'm doing. And my roommate said, well, you know, at the radio station, they have news. You should go up there and maybe write the news for them. So I did. And I remember the news director laughed at me and she said, oh, we don't write the news here. We rip and read. And she pointed to this thing that was in the corner. It was, it was an old associated press

teletype machine. It was clacking and making those cool sounds and dinging. And she said, just go over there and rip off the news copy and then go in that little room and read it. And I'm like, okay, you know, like an idiot. So I did. And it was really horrible. And UW River Falls. And I, I butchered every Wisconsin place name that was in front of me. And it was horrible, horrible, horrible. And there are no tapes, thankfully. And I got done and she said, that was fantastic. You've got to come back. And I think I was just a warm body, to be honest with you, Sharon. I was a warm body at the time. But I went back and I really loved it. There was something about the communication, the connection with listeners. And I ended up doing the news for a late night rock show that we had on the air at the time. So you can imagine, you know, headbanging music and then here's Wurzer.

But again, that morphed into a bunch of different things. And I can't describe it very well, even to this day. I don't know why, but there is a distinct, again, connection. Relationship is very intimate with your listeners. And there's something about, I know darn well that there's a lot of people listening, but I always try to just think of the one person who's listening that I'm connecting with. And there's great joy in that. And it is just something that is become a part of my life all these years. It's been almost what 30 years, I guess now. So

yeah, there's just something that just is very, it was a very attractive move to make from newspapers to, to write, but radio, radio specifically, of course I've done television but I prefer radio I was going to ask why radio I prefer to be really heard and not there is just that that one-on-one connection with a listener that I really loved and and I and I remember as a kid maybe some of your listeners might remember this too this is really back in the day. CBS Radio had Radio Mystery Theater, which I just completely dated myself by saying this, but it aired on the CBS Radio Network and it was old-fashioned radio drama. And I used to listen as a kid, which really makes me sound old, but it was so amazing to listen to that. E.G. Marshall did the opening intro and he had this great voice anyway

and it was just captivating and it was again this thing that just reached out and just grabbed me by the ears and that's why radio still does that to this day for people right I think I feel like the soul your soul is in your voice and you can hear an individual soul in their voice. There's just something about that. It's a, it's a real soul level that you can get to. That's really interesting. I wonder if that is one reason why podcasts have grown in popularity so significantly.

So there's just something about listening to it does something a little bit different in your brain. Then totally is like that. It's not, well, good podcasts, good audio is not wallpaper, right? There's audio wallpaper that you don't want to get yourself into. But if you have, there's something in your voice, and if you are interested in your subject matter, the listener will be too, right?

And there's just, it's a very visceral connection. I think I've done TV for a long time too. I've done commercial TV and public television and people just get hung up on the earrings, all her earrings. They're just going back and forth. Oh my God, I can't stand the color of her hair. Look at that. I mean, it just, no matter, you can have the cure for cancer and people will still get hung up on how you look. Yes. Radio, not that way. Thank God. It's so true that no matter what you do, somebody is going to comment on your appearance. What about public radio do you love? The mission, you know, and I've done both. I've done commercial and public television,

The mission, you know, and I've done both. I've done commercial and public television, obviously, and commercial and public radio. And it's the mission part of it that I really, I really can get behind. And I was so excited. I remember I was at KSTP AM radio and TV for that matter, at one point in my career, and then made the leap to NPR. And I was so excited because it was like the place to do journalism, right? Broadcast journalism, radio specifically. And it was a place where you could stretch your wings. You had time to actually tell a story. That's serious work. You know, sometimes we get ourselves a little too serious. You know, we get a lot of Brussels sprouts and broccoli. We should probably lighten up a little bit, but it is the place to do solid work. And as a journalist, it's my home. And I've left a couple of times. I've come back a couple of times just because of that. All right. If somebody is not currently a public radio listener, whether that's Minnesota Public Radio, National Public Radio, their own state's version of public radio. What sets public radio apart from commercial radio? Obviously, public radio isn't just like playing top 40 hits and having drive time banter in the way that commercial radio stations might. So that's a given. But from the inside, from somebody who has worked in both,

what is that soul of public radio that you're referring to and why should somebody listen to it? I think it's a reflection of your community. So if you want to know what's going on in your community, in your state, in your country, I think it's a great source of news and other perspectives. If you want to know about something beyond just headlines, public radio is for you. It really is. And quirky. I mean, definitely there's some quirkiness. Yeah, exactly. But that's the beauty of it, right? We don't have to worry. I mean, yes, my show has been number one in the market before? Sure. Is that great? Yeah. But we don't live and die by the ratings either. You know, it's truly community, community radio and a lot of around the country, which I, I so love. What would you say to somebody who feels

like we should not be spending taxpayer money on things like public broadcasting, PBS, NPR, NPR, like we should not be spending taxpayer money on those things when the free market capitalism can provide us with the news that we need. What would you say to that? Good question. People always bring that up. And actually, you know what? A minuscule amount of taxpayer money is spent on PBS and NPR, really. NPR and other stations, too. I mean, we directly go to listeners who support us to ask for donations, right? But taxpayer money, not a lot is spent. And really, you know, in Europe, a lot more is spent on public broadcasting in different European systems. So I think we are a public service that should be funded to a bit of public funds should be sent our way, I think, because we are a public service.

What do you think? at it a little bit like this is, you know, Americans are actually very familiar with the public private options that occur throughout society. We have private universities and public universities, the public universities perhaps have a slightly different mission than private universities do. We have hospitals that are private. We also offer some types of public health care in the United States. And so that public option serves a different purpose. And it absolutely does things that commercial broadcasting won't do because the profit motive is not significant enough, right? And so sometimes things that the private market won't do are things that are actually

needed and necessary in society right there is more to living a rich a rich communal life than profit agreed yes agreed right some things are not profitable but still really worth doing right i mean back to sesame street when that first began on on pbs that was the mission right to have quality programming for children it's obviously proven to be incredibly successful yeah but i finally got to meet mr rogers as an adult i almost almost cried. I mean, I'm not much of a fangirl, but when he came to Twin Cities PBS, he was doing something for us and I was just tongue tied. I just, it was Mr. Rogers. Right. I would have felt that way too. Oh my gosh. I'm sure for the producers was just joyful. Absolutely. I remember I asked him,

so, you know, what kept you going all these years? And he said it was just the sheer joy of getting to work on behalf of kids. What a guy. It's hockey season and you can get anything you need delivered with Uber Eats. Well, almost, almost anything. So no, you can't get an ice rink on Uber Eats. But iced tea, ice cream, or just plain old ice? Yes, we deliver those. Gold tenders, no. But chicken tenders, yes. Because those are groceries, and we deliver those too.

Along with your favorite restaurant food, alcohol, and other everyday essentials. Order Uber Eats now. For alcohol, you must be legal drinking age. Please enjoy responsibly. Product availability varies by region. See app for details. Visa and OpenTable are dishing up something new. Get access to primetime dining reservations by adding your Visa Infinite Privilege Card to your OpenTable account. From there, you'll unlock first-come, first-served spots at select top restaurants when booking through

open table learn more at opentable.ca forward slash visa dining interior chinatown is an all new series based on the best-selling novel by charles yu about a struggling asian actor who gets a bigger part than he expected when he witnesses a crime in Chinatown. Streaming November 19th, only on Disney+. The other thing I wanted to talk to you about is how you got into covering politics. And I would love to hear more about how covering politics as a journalist has changed since you began to now? Sharon, there's like a theme in my career. Everything's by accident or kind of by accident. I backed into the politics, but I also is underscoring a lot of my career

is that I do tend to leap at things and take risks and chances. So I have no, I initially started with a political science major. It was a double major of journalism, political science, and I dropped the political science, which was pretty silly if you think about it, but, and cause I really do like politics, but I dropped that as a major and did something completely different in college. And then what did I do? I went into political reporting and I did literally my boss at KSTP AM radio came through the newsroom one day and said, who here knows anything about

politics? And I, I heard that. I thought, well, you really don't. So just shut up. He said, but okay. All right. So no one was answering. No one put their hand up. And he said, who wants to go to the Capitol to cover session? And I went, for no apparent reason, because I thought, God almighty, I have no background. I shouldn't, I shouldn't have said I would do this, but maybe I'll learn. And it was like being thrown to the wolves. But it was so much fun. I loved, I loved it, loved it, loved it. It was the most fun I've had in my career. And it was on the job training, for sure. But not to be dangerous. So, you know, I know how a bill becomes law, that kind of thing. And know, obviously, the functioning of state government. And there weren't many people who looked like me in the newsroom, like in that room downstairs in the basement of the Capitol, of Minnesota State Capitol in St. Paul. of Minnesota state Capitol and St. Paul. So there were just a few women. It was all male and it was kind of a tough environment, but it was collegial, you know, it was super cutthroat and everyone was really competitive, but it was a joy. I really loved it. I loved the game of politics. I love the circus, but I would never want to be in the circus you know and boy it has changed a lot obviously at this time I mean it's not even recognizable the rhetoric is is sharp I mean they're they're sharp elbows in politics and you know that but you know it's just so polarized this is I want to change gears because I have a funny, funny question I want to ask you.

I taught for a lot of years in Washington, DC or the suburbs of Washington, DC. And I never stopped talking about Miss Minnesota or being, being from Minnesota. People would call me Miss Minnesota. I've always been a proud Minnesotan. Anyway, Minnesota, as you know, has the best and has for decades, the best voter turnout of any state. Yes. And on paper, we shouldn't, we're not the wealthiest. We're not the best educated.

We don't have any of the demographic requirements for statistical probability of what makes somebody, you know, a good at voting. All, what we do have is our culture of voting, that it's just what everybody does, right? One year I was chatting with my students, this is in Maryland, and I asked, why does Maryland have only 50% of eligible voters voting and Minnesota has 80% of eligible voters voting? And of course they don't know the answer really i'm just asking them to hypothesize and the answer is multifaceted but they sat and thought about it for a few minutes and then one boy finally raised his hand he was like there's nothing else to do there all

we have to do is dog sled to the polls and just well it's the one thing a year, like, like it's an Antarctic research station. And we just leave one time a year to go vote. Like, Ooh, it's our night out. Going to go vote. When I filled them in that, like actually Minnesota has all the professional sports teams, all of them at like the mall of America. That's where Target started. People, they were truly shocked, that it wasn't 40 people living in a metal building. Like they were picturing Antarctica. So Minnesota is such a unique place, politically so unique. You know, like when Jesse Ventura was the governor, if you're not familiar, Jesse Ventura was a professional wrestler, You know, like when Jesse Ventura was the governor, if you're not familiar, Jesse Ventura was a professional wrestler, governor of Minnesota, he ran as running against him were much more career politicians, et cetera.

So he was in office simultaneously. We have one of the most liberal senators, Paul Wellstone. Rod Krams, one of the most extremely conservative senators, all at the same time in one state. It was so much fun. What makes Minnesotans like that? What makes Minnesota unique politically? Oh my gosh. The Jesse Venturas of the world are, of course, interesting. They're enticing to Minnesotans because he was one of us and he kind of spoke our language.

You know, he was an every, every guy. He, of course, drove his professional counterparts up a wall in debates. I mean, I watched it. I was part of many of them. And because he would say, I don't know, I don't know, I guess we'll figure that out, you know. political statements and policy statements and that kind of thing. But people kind of ate that up because he was, he was different. We love different in the state of Minnesota. So we'll split our tickets all the way, you know, six ways to sundown. But I think again, we're civic minded bunch of people though, too. You know, we're, we, we care about who is leading us. And I think that we actually are, when it comes to our electorate, we're, we're pretty educated, you know, we're pretty savvy, really. I mean, I can't tell you how many people, when we do our political debates on Almanac, because we're known for those,

those are huge ratings that we get for, and we've done this now for, what is it now? 36, 37 years. We're the longest running show of our kind in the country. And there's a reason for that. So our debates are really well watched and people want to know, like, so who are you? What do you stand for? It's just part of our DNA, I think. How this about how it has happened. There's a number of different reasons, probably.

And also, you know, in our classes, I mean, and you know this too, being a person who taught civics, gosh, I remember in junior high and high school, you know, in our classes, I mean, and you know this too, being a person who taught civics, gosh, I remember in junior high and high school, you know, you talked about voting and the importance of it. And how do you vote? And it was part of the curriculum, you know? I suppose, I bet you probably talked about that to your classes, didn't you? Oh, of course. Here's how you vote. Here's what a ballot looks like.

But I remember when I was in college, there was an organization called kids voting. Do you remember this organization? It was a nonprofit. It relied mostly on college students to volunteer. And the idea was a child who sees their parents vote two or three times growing up will statistically become a voter. And so the idea was like, bring your kids to the polls. And they had like a little kids station set up with like little ballots that you could just color on with your markers. And then you got some stickers and it was extremely nonpartisan. It was really just like an activity station for preschool and elementary age children so that their parents would feel comfortable bringing them to the polls. Even just little organizations like that, like, yeah, we have an activity station at the polls, I think has bred a generation of Minnesotans that

are like, know what it means to vote. And of course, we constantly in the media, what are we doing? We're constantly saying, go vote, go vote, go vote, go vote. I mean, you know, the election day, I can't tell you how many times I say that on the air. Polls open at eight. Go, go, go, go, go. Yes. We also have same day voter registration, which I absolutely, I know statistically that

makes a huge difference in terms of voter turnout. If you get a B in your bonnet on election day, you can show up and register and vote. In fact, last election day, I was doing a radio segment on a commercial station in the Twin Cities. And I got a Instagram message shortly after it was done with somebody who was in the military who had just left Minnesota and had gotten stationed in Georgia. And they were like, how do I figure out how to vote here in Georgia? And I'm like, oh, friend, you can't. You needed to have your registration in three weeks ago. And they were shocked and appalled that the state would be like, sorry, you can't vote.

He's like, I am in the military. And you're telling me that I cannot vote in your state? You know, he'd already changed his address, et cetera. He couldn't vote in Minnesota again. He was truly like very upset and dismayed that other states would not have the same ability, the same ease of voting as the state he came from. Interesting, isn't it? Interesting, isn't it?

Kathy, if there's one thing that you wish people knew about public media, what would you, what do you wish they would, they could know? Such a good question. There's a stereotype, right, of public media. I think back to that old Saturday Night Live skit, which is kind of spot on when it comes to public women. Women, yes. Yeah. They're doing like a cooking segment. Yes. And they have just hysterical with their voices. They're well-modulated voices.

And some of that is true. But, and I think people, we get that left-leaning moniker because of, you know, we cover what's out in the world. And you might not like what you hear, right? That we are not, this isn't some sort of a, you know, we don't sit back in the newsroom and say, oh, well, we're definitely going to go ahead and slant this story left. You know, that's just not happened. And I wish people would understand that, you know, that there isn't some plot, that we're not a microphone of the left. And if you're on the right, you think that, you know, and I thought about this a lot, do we need to do a better job? You know, we try to get, you try to get as many voices out there as you can, right. And I just think that I think that's the one thing I want to leave with people is that

it's not some sort of a plot that we deliberately attempt to slant the news to a certain, either way, right? And you might not like what you hear, you know? With our electorate, just how we have, our media is so fragmented, is that you can go to any organization, any station that reflects your thinking, and you're going to just be in your own echo chamber, you know? And I think that when public radio might go, oh, I can't stand that. That is just, what are they talking about this for? And that you might get really, and if you get really mad I think that's okay really to be honest with you I think that if people on both sides are mad at us I think I'm doing a pretty

good job that's how I feel too if I'm getting messages from people telling me that I am not left-leaning enough if I'm not if I'm being too nice to those politicians or and then also messages being like well you're not nice enough to Donald Trump I'm winning I have won if you both hate me great I can't even imagine who would hate you that's the thing oh you'd be surprised Kathy oh I trust you understand this it's so true though that facts don't require our approval for them to be facts. And it's like exactly like what you were saying with such a highly fragmented media that we have now been trained that if we, if we don't agree with everything we're hearing on the news, well, that means that they are leftist or they're, oh my gosh, you guys are crazy right-wingers. If we don't agree

with everything being said, that means it's not true. That's kind of where a lot of Americans have landed. And the criteria for something being true is not, do you agree with it? Right. That's one of the things I try to hammer home all the time. That's not the criteria. The facts are often inconvenient. I know. I mean, what do you think of this? I mean, we were talking about this in the newsroom the other day. We were talking, you probably have heard about this too, truth sandwiches, right? Or that concept of truth sandwiches, you know, sandwich in truth, lie, truth, you know, do more of that reporting, but also just being really transparent about what we do and how we do it. I still, there's like a shroud of secrecy

over a lot of what we do, you know, because you're cranking this stuff out. I mean, every half hour on the top and bottom of the hour, you're just going, going, going, you know, and it's even worse. Oh my Lord. It's even worse on a national scale, you know, like CNN, SNBC, or Fox. You're just, you're just, it's like you're a mouse on a treadmill. So gosh, it would be nice. We need to do a better job explaining what we do and why we do it and how we do it. How you do it. Here's how we arrived. And you don't have time on air to do these things, but those are things that you could put on the website. Yeah. You know, like here is how we arrived at the conclusion that, you know, of X, Y, and Z that the X, Y, and Z is actually what occurred. Here's how we arrived at that. Here are the transcripts. Here is, here are the court documents. But again,

I understand there's a significant amount of effort and work that goes into all of that. It's people grossly underestimate how much work that is. It's a lot of work. It's a lot of work. Like shuffle. Yes. Yes. Well, Kathy, you are a gem. You are a gift to Minnesotans and a gift to public radio. And I'm so grateful for your time and please, please never stop doing what you're doing. There'll be a point where I have to retire someday, but I'll just keep going. That's not true. That is false. I don't like your facts.

I don't agree with your facts. And so consequently, that's not a fact. It really is truly an honor. It is. It is an honor. I say that to younger journalism students, that you are, is a privilege to do what you don't need a license. We probably should. You don't need a license to do what we're doing. It's an honor and it's a privilege and you should never forget it. And it's not about you. It's not about you. It's about the people that are

listening to you, watching you, reading you. And it's the person that people that you're interviewing, it's about them. So it's an honor. I'm glad I'm still doing it. Yes. Well, I think that's what sets you apart from many media personalities. There are a lot of people on cable news who are not truly journalists. Don't even pretend to be journalists. They're media personalities and they prioritize celebrity over integrity. Yeah. And it's always about how can I be on the name on everybody's lips, even if it is, even if they're compromising their integrity to do it. And so that's one of the reasons I admire what you do, that you care more about the audience you're serving, that you care about producing celebrity for yourself. Yeah, not into it. I'm just, yeah, no, I've had that opportunity a long, long time ago. And no, no, it didn't want to go in that direction. I just want to be a journalist.

Yeah, that's me. Well, keep up the good work, my friend. Thank you for doing this. Oh, you're so kind. And I'm really proud of you too, for what you're doing. Really thanks. I mean, I think it's really needed. And the fact that you are such, you're such a measured voice that people can trust. And you know, you're not a journalist. You're a teacher, you know, is really important. So thank you for what you're doing. Thank you, Kathy. Yeah. Let's do this again.

Okay. Thank you so much for listening to the Sharon Says So podcast. I am truly grateful for you. And I'm wondering if you could do me a quick favor. Would you be willing to follow or subscribe to this podcast or maybe leave me a rating or a review? Or if you're feeling extra generous, would you share this episode on your Instagram stories or with a friend?

All of those things help podcasters out so much. This podcast was written and researched by Sharon McMahon and Heather Jackson. It was produced by Heather Jackson, edited and mixed by our audio producer, Jenny Snyder, and hosted by me, Sharon McMahon. I'll see you next time.