Here's Where It Gets Interesting - Connecticut: The Father of Education with Kevin and Layla Palmer

Episode Date: August 9, 2021

In this episode, Sharon sits down with her good friends, Kevin and Layla Palmer. Sharon and the Palmers explore the ambitious life of Noah Webster, an American lexicographer, author, editor, and textbook pioneer. At the height of the Gilded Age, Noah Webster revolutionized the American education system and his influence in the classroom has remained present since the 19th century. Webster authored the first American textbook after British rule called the “Blue-Backed Speller” which sold over 100 million copies and taught five generations of American students, he was an English-language spelling reformer who invented a contest to promote literacy known as the Spelling Bee, he published the first American dictionary “Webster's Dictionary” and invented the American federal copyright. As an advocate for American Exceptionalism in a post-revolution society, Webster’s efforts shaped the system of American education and language as we knew it today and his legacy lives on as the “Father of American Scholarship and Education.” For more information on this episode including all resources and links discussed go to https://www.sharonmcmahon.com/podcast Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Yay, you're back! So thrilled that you're here with me today. I am sharing a conversation with two people I find absolutely delightful, Layla and Kevin Palmer. If you already follow The Lettered Cottage on Instagram, you already love them. I have been following their home decor account for over 10 years. And that is saying something. If an account makes the cut for more than 10 years, that is a vote of confidence. I truly enjoy watching them. They are hilarious, endearing, and so talented. So let's dive into our episode, The Pioneer of Education. I'm Sharon McMahon, and welcome to the Sharon Says So podcast. fan. And welcome to the Sharon Says So podcast. Yay! I'm so excited. Kevin and Layla Palmer are here with me today. Just some of my favorite, favorite humans that I have truly enjoyed

following on Instagram and on your blog for over a decade. Which is like, what did I say? What did I say? You know what I mean? Because that's a long time ago. I was a different person. Yeah. Yeah. Well, nothing. You haven't said anything other than just being your delightful self.

Thank you. I find other people's like homes beautiful and lovely and whatever, but decorating is not my gig. I still love to follow you. Government isn't my gig, but I still love to follow you. Look at how that works. Look at how that works. So I have a story today that I want to share with you that I think you're actually going to get a kick out of. I think you're going to leave and be like, didn't know that. That is interesting. That's every time we visit your account. Yes, exactly. Every time. Well, I've not heard that story before.

Yes, exactly. Every time. Well, I've not heard that story before. Okay. You guys have probably heard, however, of the name Noah Webster. Do you know who he is? Oh, boy. It's not a quiz. If you don't, you'll figure out who he is. Okay. So Noah Webster, born in the United States in the 1750s. That's why I don't know him. My 1750 genealogy is shaky. Born in the 1750s, so predates the constitution. He was very, very bright as a child. And of course, education at the time was something that was provided to people of means. To get an extended education

was something special. And his parents really had to sacrifice to be able to pay for his education. They had to sacrifice for him to be able to go to Yale. They had to mortgage their house. College was free at the time, but you had to pay for room and board to go to college, which put it out of the reach of most common citizens. He's this extremely bright young man. He goes to college when he's 16 and 1774, which is right before the Revolutionary War. Right. Right. So like Boston Tea Party, where America's getting real fed up, where they're like, we're almost ready to be done. Yeah. If you don't make some changes. Yeah. We're out of here okay okay noah webster reported catching a glimpse of george washington

as george washington who had just been appointed commander of the army by congress as george washington was heading north through connecticut to boston where he was going to begin military skirmishes with the british no webster was like playing the flute in the band when he saw George Washington. That was like one of his big claims to fame. He later became friends with George Washington. Wow. He did have to leave Yale for a while because his community was called up to fight in the Revolutionary War.

He and his brothers and his dad get their guns and they're going to march off to battle. And then by the time they almost get there, they that is over we've we won that one finish go ahead and go home wow things were a little a little different than they than they are now where you just like everyone in this town better get a gun and start walking to new york right exactly see what's up when we get there and And I'm curious about the flute. I like that he was playing a flute. Okay. Yeah. What else would you want to be doing while seeing George Washington? Exactly. True. Other than playing a flute. Seems very apropos. So he, he returns back home. He finishes his degree at Yale. He decides I want to be an attorney

because that was kind of like the thing that educated men study. They studied the law. His parents were like, we have no more money. We cannot help you. There's nothing. I'm sorry. So he decides, I guess I can't become a lawyer. What else can I do with all of these skills that I have developed? All of my intellect, I'm going to become a teacher. He decides to become a teacher. He later got a job in Sharon, Connecticut as a teacher, which I thought was very cute. During the late 1770s, he described the conditions in the one room schoolhouses as absolutely deplorable. This was his quote about the one room schoolhouse situation. The one-room schoolhouse was a very poor system of education. They were ill-heated, ill-lit. The textbooks were poorly

written and scarce. The teachers were ill-paid, and the guiding rule of the schoolhouse was to spare the rod and spoil the child. A class might have 50 to 70 students with one teacher. Whoa, I just broke out in hives. Can you imagine 70 kids ages six to 16? Wow. In one room, no teacher listening to this would be like, that sounds great. He, after teaching for a couple of years is like, this is bananas. These textbooks are trash. We just fought the revolutionary war to get away from this ridiculous King of England. And all of

our textbooks were written in England and they're constantly talking about swearing allegiance to the King. Do I have any other options? I don't want to teach this. So he realizes, no, there are no other options. I'll make my own textbooks. And so he wrote these several different textbooks. His first textbook became so wildly popular that over the course of the next 100 years, he sold 100 million copies of his textbook, which colloquially was known as the blueback speller. That's a lot of books. You know, like all of the school children of the United States, almost all, would get a new copy every year. And so that's part of what drove demand for his books. In his books, he wanted to infuse this idea that America was really different and also really better. Oh, look at him go.

So he's in some ways writes American exceptionalism, American nationalism into his textbooks. This is one of the things he said about America. This is why he wanted to change the textbooks. He said, America, she laughs at their folly, meaning the folly of England, and shuns their errors. She founds her empire upon the idea of universal toleration. She admits all religions into her bosom. She secures the sacred rights of every individual. And to the astonishing absurdity of Europeans, she sees a thousand discordant opinions live in the strictest harmony. I just got the goosies. He went on to say that America will go down with the glory of ancient Greece and Rome. He was riding high

on this idea of like the British empire was defeated by some dudes with muskets, you know, who had no training and no materials and et cetera, et cetera. So his idea was America doesn't need just political independence. It needs cultural independence from England. And so he begins writing about the American use of language, how Americans used words differently than they did in England. He started including American geography. And there were words that people in England didn't know, like the words... Colloquially. Like the word skunk and squash and things that were unique to North America. Interesting. You don't want to, in school, learn only British geography. That's right.

So he starts going systematically state to state, trying to make friends with all of the leaders of the state and trying to convince them that they should use his textbooks. After he meets with them, he asks for referrals. Can you introduce me to this other person? And he becomes extremely well known throughout the entire United States because of his concerted effort to meet the people in the know. He earned a half a cent royalty on every book that he sold. And so he obviously had a financial invested interest in wanting to sell as many of these textbooks as he could. As a result of the publication of his blueback speller, which again was used very widely in the United States for a hundred years, we invented a little contest that still exists today called the spelling

bee. Wow. So the spelling bee was a direct result of the educational reform efforts of Noah Webster, who thought children should learn how to use language appropriately, that everybody should have an education, both boys and girls should have an education. When he got married later in life, he and his wife had eight children and six of them were girls. And so they felt like girls should learn how to read and girls should learn how to spell and do more and learn geography and learn more than just how to cook and clean. Sure, sure. He later made friends with Alexander Hamilton. Okay. And Alexander Hamilton liked to know Webster, felt like this is a man we need in American politics. This is a man that we

need at the forefront of political philosophy. Hamilton and Webster shared many of the same ideals. Webster was part of the Federalist Party that Hamilton helped found. But even though Webster had this very successful book sales, he had eight kids and he traveled all the time and he didn't have a ton of money. And so Hamilton said, listen, I will send you $1,500 if you will move to New York City and begin editing the Federalist newspaper that I want to start. Okay. $1,500 in 1793. Yeah. Or 2021. You know what I'm saying? Right. Yeah. Right. If somebody sent you $1,500 today, you'd be like, dang, thanks. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Yeah. It's still, it's still not a small amount of money. So he did that for a while, you know, became more well-known in politics. This is how he became friends with George Washington.

And, you know, he moved to New York and started making a name for himself in politics. And then finally decides. I would like to be an elected representative. I think I have things to contribute. So he moved back to Connecticut where he came from and got elected to the Connecticut House of Representatives and, you know, started deciding, you know, I'm going to dip my toes in the water here. Yeah. I'm Jenna Fisher and I'm Angela Kinsey. We are best friends and together we have the podcast Office Ladies, where we rewatched every single episode of The Office with insane behind the scenes stories, hilarious guests and lots of laughs. Guess who's sitting next to me? Steve! It's my girl in the studio!

Girl, in the studio. Every Wednesday, we'll be sharing even more exclusive stories from the office and our friendship with brand new guests. And we'll be digging into our mailbag to answer your questions and comments. So join us for brand new Office Ladies 6.0 episodes every Wednesday. Plus, on Mondays, we are taking a second drink. You can revisit all the Office Ladies rewatch episodes every Monday with new bonus tidbits before every episode. Well, we can't wait to see you there. Follow and listen to Office Ladies on the free Odyssey app and wherever you get your podcasts. He also founded the Connecticut Society for the Abolition of Slavery.

He felt that slavery was very morally wrong. Right. And believed that it should be abolished. But it was, of course, very difficult at the time to figure out how to make the South do that. How was the big question. Right. That's true of a lot of things. We decided we should do X. How do we do that? Exactly. question. Right. That's true of a lot of things. We decided we should do X.

How do we do that? Exactly. Yes. Daily. Daily. That's right. That's right. A lot of things.

In 1800, he published an essay in which he announced his intentions to write a dictionary. I knew that's where you were going. At some point in all this delightful because the only dictionary that existed was British. Wow. And he again had a strong disdain for the British, the British educational system. And he believed in american exceptionalism of our own dictionary got it as one can imagine it's not a small endeavor to write a dictionary right i tried and i quit at letter b yeah yeah because you have to write all the definitions from scratch wow yes He spent over 20 years writing the dictionary. His dictionary was not published, like his full dictionary. He published smaller versions of it, but his tome, his magnum opus was not published until 1828. So 28 years it took him to write the dictionary.

Just him sitting in a room the whole time. I'm kidding. I'm kidding. Alone while his wife cared for the eight children. Writing the dictionary. So in order to write the dictionary, he needed to learn 26 languages because English is that complicated. And he had to write definitions for 70,000 words. Did he make a lot of them up? He did not make up the words, but many of the words were never in any British dictionary. In fact, they estimated that he defined 30,000 to 40,000 of the words that made it into the dictionary that had never been in any dictionary before. But that were being used somewhere else. That were being used in America. Yes.

Okay. He also is the reason we do not spell things the way they do in England. He is the man who was like, we are not going to spell color with an O-U-R. We're going to spell it C-O-L-O-R. Because he felt like language should be easier. We should not have extraneous letters that make it harder to understand for the average person. My kind of guy. I was about to say. So, for example, in Britain, they spelled the word check, C-H-E-Q-U-E-E.

Right. And he was like, we should just spell this with an E-C-K. Right. Come on. Yep. The word plow in Britain is spelled O-U-G-H. Right. And it's O-W in the United States.

Right. They spell things like center with an R-E, and we spell it with an E-R. And words like music used to have a K at the end. M-U-S-I-C-K. And he was like, don't need that K. Get rid of it. He doesn't have time. You know what I mean?

Nope. Yeah. No time. There were a few words that his proposed spelling didn't catch on. Like he decided that tongue, T-O-N-G-U-E-e that's weird how would i look at that and know that it says tongue right you know what i mean he believed tongue should be spelled like lung t-u-n-g i get it i get it that makes more sense than tongu like tongue and lung yeah let's make it easy but that one never caught on a few of the other words

that he added just that are you know off the top of my head that he added were things like chowder and hickory again uniquely american things that didn't exist in any british dictionaries. When he published his dictionary, he sold 5,500 copies of it. Half of them he sold in England because it had 70,000 words in it and the best dictionary they had only had 30,000. Got it. Okay. So it was about my head around how long that would take 28 years, 28 years hard at work. Yeah. I have a hard time just remembering to take out the trash of the laundry. Right. Like the focus. Yeah. Focus that it had to take. So here's one of the other issues that he tackled that very well known in American society that we have no Webster to thank, which is the idea of a federal copyright.

Wow. Before the works of Noah Webster, every state had their own copyright laws. And he was like, this is not what is best for America because he felt like America needed its own writers, its own artists. We should not be relying on European writers and artists. We should have our own artistic literary community. And if we want that to proliferate, we need to protect their works. Before that, you know, it was very mishmash, very, you know, like every state doing their own thing. If you wanted to publish the blueback speller in every state of the union, you had to figure out the copyright in every single state and apply and it would expire and I got to do it over here. Wow. You know, it just was, it was way too messy. And so because he had spent all of these

years cultivating political friendships, he was invited to testify before Congress about the issues of copyrights in the United States. They agreed to pass federal copyright law. And he was invited to dinner at the White House by Andrew Jackson and was allowed to watch Jackson sign the copyright law into existence. Wow. That's cool. After his, you know, success publishing the blueback speller and his success getting the federal copyright protections, he then decided, you know what I'm going to do? I'm going to come out with my own version of the Bible. I'm going to come up with my own version of the Bible. Now, he was fluent in Greek and Hebrew. And again, as I mentioned, he studied 26 languages. He was very respectful of the King

James version of the Bible, which was published in the 1600s. And he was not going to undertake a new translation of the Bible from the original language. What he wanted to do was replace some of the language from the 1600s, again, which was from the British version of English in the 1600s and make it make sense in 1830s America. Okay. So this is one of his quotes about his undertaking of his version of the Bible. He says, in my his quotes about his undertaking of his version of the Bible. He says, in my own view of this subject, a version of the scriptures for popular use should consist of words expressing the sense, which is most common in popular usage. So basically saying words used to mean something different. And when it said that a long time ago, we don't understand what that means in today's language.

Right. So for example, King James Bible said things like three score. And he's like, why shouldn't we just say 60? Right. Right. You know, and it described people as mad. And in the 1830s, people would have used the word insane because we came to understand mad as meaning angry. Right. And, you know, words in the King James version that talked about a city in the Bible being fenced. He was like, in America, a fence just kind of like keeps your sheep in. That's not what we're talking about. He replaced words like fenced with fortified, which is more descriptive of what they were talking about. If you're fortifying a city, you're not putting some posts, wooden posts around a city.

You know what I mean? What's that do? Also, one of the things he talked about was in the Bible, they use the word coast to refer to the borders of a region. And in America, we understand coast to mean along the seashore. And at that time, it meant all of the borders inland and otherwise. So he was like, let's just use border. And then Americans will understand this more. He is also the reason most of the American Christian church uses the term Holy Spirit instead of holy ghost because he came he was like a ghost is like a creepy apparition of a dead person that's right wow that is so interesting isn't that interesting it is wow it's like a negative connotation yes yes he is the person who was like you know, let's go with spirit. That is more accurate up to our understanding.

It's got more life to it versus like death. Yeah, right, right. He was also very upset that there were a lot of grammatical errors in the Bible. He was a grammar hammer. Yes. So he wanted to fix some of the grammar, but he also wanted to fix some of the words in the Bible that, as he described, make a woman blush. What? Yes. Tell me more. This is what he said. Language which cannot be uttered in company without a violation of decorum or the rules of good breeding exposes the scriptures to the scoffs

of unbelievers. It impairs the scriptures authority. You know how we say like a dog was put to sleep. It just feels more comfortable to us than to be like, we paid someone to kill our dog. Right. So they just use language that just softened it, softened it. And then you didn't have to blush reading it to your children by the fire. Right. Yeah. Yeah. In the introduction, he actually outlines here is what I have changed. It's never became, you know, the King James Bible, but he didn't intend it to be. It was based on the King James Bible. It was just meant to be more accessible to Americans during that time period. He never stopped revising his dictionaries. Never stopped. Like came out with a second edition in 1840. Shortly before he finished writing an appendix to the second edition of his dictionary that,

you know, wasn't going to be published yet, but was going to be published in the future. This is in 1843. A couple of days later, he starts not feeling well and becomes clear that he's going to die. He's an old man by this point. After he died, rights to his dictionary were acquired by some brothers, George and Charles Merriam. And it's now known as the Merriam-Webster dictionary. Wow. I grew up with it. That's how it all ties together. That is so cool. You can find the Merriam-Webster dictionary online. If you go to m-w.com, that's the Merriam-Webster dictionary. We have one, like a hard copy of one in the house.

Noah Webster not only revolutionized education at the time in the United States, he defined tens of thousands of words that had never been defined before. He standardized spelling across the entire United States. He's why we spell words differently than they do in Canada or England. And he's the father of the copyright in the United States. He's why we spell words differently than they do in Canada or England. And he's the father of the copyright in the United States. What a perfect person to talk about because we are the lettered cottage. Is that why you picked him? I just thought Layla would love this story. Oh, you know it. I like this guy. The only thing is the spelling bee. There were times when I was standing in elementary school, my heart pounded and my palms sweaty.

I'm like, oh gosh. I loved this quote of his, and I'll end the story here. I thought this was such a, just like, that is still applies to today. He said, in selecting men for office, let principle be your guide. Regard not the particular sect or denomination of the candidate. Look to his character.

Mic drop. I love it. I still love it. Let's print it out. Yes, literally. That should be at the top of every ballot. Seriously. Right?

Seriously. Yeah. Where was he located? located you know i'm all about a place so connecticut yep his home is a historic site now webster house yes you can easily find it online yeah yeah rv trip this was so It was. Thank you for having us. Yes. I would love to have you back. Oh, we would love to be back. And you know, we're hoping to head home to Minnesota soon. Not everybody knows that both Layla and I are from Minnesota. Yeah. Oh yeah. Don't you know? Yeah. See, he can do it now too. Yeah. Cool. I'm just going to sneak behind you. Right. Sorry about it. Do you still say that? I'm going to sneak behind you we do say we're just bombing around

that was a new one for me just bombing tell everybody where to find you so we're at lettered cottage on Instagram and I want you to tell everybody

about the children's book you have coming up too so it's the happy crab it's coming out this year yes and you can pre-order it now. You can. It's on Amazon, and it is released October 12th. Kevin had been a songwriter for 20 years, and I'd been blogging for more than a decade, and we kind of pooled our talents, and once we had kids, we understood how important literature

and teaching lessons in that way really was. The power of story. Yeah. Like it makes you feel like a little kid again to do a children's book. I love that. And Kevin's dad was a cartoonist for 40 years. He was? He was a political cartoonist.

Was he? Yes. I love that. It was really cool. And then it's super sweet, I think. Every week, he would hide a little symbol for Kevin and his brother in the cartoon. Aww. On the front page of the political section.

I love that. Thank you for sharing that with me. I have a lot of admiration for people who do that well. Political cartoonists are the reason we have the elephant and donkey symbols for the Republican and Democrat parties. Those were just political cartoonists. Right. Wow. Yeah. Well, thank you so much. I really hope you will agree to come back. This was perfect. I loved chatting with you. Thank you so much for having us. Yes, my pleasure. Thank you so much for listening to the Sharon Says So podcast. I am truly grateful for you.

And I'm wondering if you could do me a quick favor. Would you be willing to follow or subscribe to this podcast or maybe leave me a rating or a review? Or if you're feeling extra generous, would you share this episode on your Instagram stories or with a friend? All of those things help podcasters out so much. I cannot wait to have another mind-blown moment with you next episode. Thanks again for listening to the Sharon Says So podcast.