Here's Where It Gets Interesting - Don’t Underestimate the Power of the State with Melissa Walker

Episode Date: January 20, 2023

On today’s episode, Sharon talks about the importance of state legislatures with Melissa Walker, an expert from The States Project. Melissa, and The States Project, aims to educate the public on the very real powers that our governing state bodies hold. Don’t like a new law in your state? Don’t blame your senator, hold your state legislators accountable. And the same goes for the reverse: if you want to create real change, you may want to concentrate on influencing your state leaders. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey friends, welcome. So excited to have you with me as always. And wow, I have something for you to think about today that I believe is really going to shift how you view politics in the United States. And this episode has the ability to impact democracy in a huge way. So I want you to stick around and listen as we dive into a conversation with Melissa Walker. I'm Sharon McMahon. And here's where it gets interesting. This is a topic I know so many people are interested to learn about and, you know, sort of awakening to this idea of like, I actually don't know maybe what I need to know

about things like state legislatures, etc. So I'm very excited to be chatting with Melissa Walker today. Thanks for being here. Absolutely. Thanks for having me. very excited to be chatting with Melissa Walker today. Thanks for being here. Absolutely. Thanks for having me. Can you tell us a little bit, just to start, what is the States Project? So the States Project is an organization that is focused exclusively on state legislatures and working to change the balance of power or defend the balance of power for lawmakers who are focused on improving people's lives. And our mission really is to work on that. And we focus exclusively on state legislatures because we believe that they

are the most important force for change in our country at this moment. That's such an important point that you bring up because, you know, what's on C-SPAN is Congress. What's on CNN and Fox is Congress. The people doing the press conferences with all the viral soundbites, they're in Congress, by and large. And so there begins to be this perception, I think, and maybe you can speak to this, with the American public, that everything important that's happening in the country is happening with Congress, the President, and the United States Supreme Court. And that is just not true.

Absolutely right. And it was something that was an awakening for me. My background is that I write young adult and middle grade novels. I was a children's book author. And the election of 2016 was a big awakening moment for me as to what was happening in our country. But it wasn't until a month after the election in December, when I attended a holiday party, where I heard a New York state Senator, Daniel Squadron speak, that I started to understand that maybe I was looking in the wrong direction. Because what I heard from him that night was that everything that I was worried about and everything that I cared about was being decided in state legislatures and not in Washington, D.C.

From environmental policy to education funding to health care to civil rights to choice and to the cores of our democracy, voting rights, and the drawing of the district lines that decide who goes to Congress, gerrymandering. That was all happening in state capitals, not Washington, D.C. And I started to connect the dots on a lot of things that hadn't made sense to me. Things like the bathroom bill, which passed in my home state of North Carolina first and kind of broke my heart, I started to understand, oh, that was folks in Raleigh who did that. And things like the Flint, Michigan water crisis, right? I started to realize that's a Lansing problem, not a Washington, D.C. problem. And all of those things happened as President Obama sat in the White House.

So I started to see that there was this power center where I hadn't looked. And I will be honest with you, that evening at that holiday party, I went home and I Googled who was my state senator because I had no idea who went to Albany for me. And I felt like I was really involved and aware, but I had been trained to watch Washington, D.C., just like the rest of us. And when I started to realize how much power there was in state capitals, I started to turn my attention there. And that's when I started to feel like I could be powerful. Our ability to impact policies and lawmakers at the state level is far greater than the average citizen realizes. We, again, speaking to this idea that Americans have been trained to interact with government in a certain way, that involves, in many Americans' minds, calling or writing your congressperson.

or writing your congressperson? Well, I emailed my Senator Bob, and he never responded. Or I called my congressperson Nancy's office, and I got a form letter in response. And so there tends to be this almost despair, like, what I'm doing makes no difference. Because especially if you live in larger states, like New York, like California, like Texas, Florida, where one person represents a huge number of individuals in the United States Congress, it does feel a little bit like sometimes like beating your head against the wall, like twisting at windmills, like nothing I'm doing is changing anything. We think that calling our congressperson is going to fix those problems when in reality, calling your congressperson about your child's school staffing issues, that is an exercise in futility. School staffing is not controlled by Congress. Absolutely, very true. And I wasn't

alone. Most people don't know who their state representatives are, who goes to their state capital for them. But I can guarantee that getting in touch with a state representative, your state senator, your state house rep about those issues that you care about will be much more effective and you will be able to have a meeting and they are not getting thousands of calls. They are really much closer to the ground. But the exceptional thing that I found about state legislatures is they are not only in control of those kitchen table issues, education, healthcare, all those things. Those are things that they absolutely impact for the folks in their state and beyond. But they also have a lever to control federal power. They draw the district lines that decide

who goes to Congress. They also draw the district lines that decide who goes to Congress. They also draw the district lines that decide who goes to the state legislature. So they are drawing themselves into power each time that happens. And it's a little bit wild to think about that. It's an area that operates in darkness because the news media doesn't focus on it. And when I started to learn about it, I realized that from 2010 to 2016, a thousand state legislative seats, nearly a thousand, were flipped from blue to red. And in 2010, they were able to redraw lines and gerrymander the districts. And that changed who went to Washington, D.C. It was something

called Project Red Map, which is a really obvious name for what was trying to be done. And that kind of power is also in state legislators' hands. So it's amazing to be able to pay attention to state legislatures and have an impact on them and know that you're impacting both the kitchen table issues on the ground and also federal power. States are meant to be laboratories for democracy, and they can be that when we elect majorities that are focused on improving lives. I also love that, that the federal government is influenced by what is happening in state legislatures. One of the things that I've found interesting is, in addition to gerrymandering, which is one way that state governments help move the levers of power of Congress, they also, by and large, control the federal funding that they receive from the government? What are they using it for?

When they get like a large grant of money, which projects are they working on? So they may actually have a significant impact on the implementation of the plans created by Congress. And one example of that that I've been following with interest is the federal government gave out billions of dollars in COVID-related funds to states, and states use them in various ways. And it's been an interesting observation to see the different ways that states have made use of these federal funds. New Mexico, for example, decided, you know what we're going to do with this money, some of this money, is we're going to make free preschool for everybody that qualifies. And then when the federal funds ran out, they were able to ask voters like, do you

like this? Do you want to keep this? And then overwhelmingly, as a ballot measure in the 2022 midterms, New Mexicans voted to keep this program because it was directly benefiting their lives. So that's one and not just one other example of how states use federal power to impact the lives of their citizens, how they use federal money is one way. Yes, absolutely. I love that example. A great point to make. There are over 10 states that still haven't expanded Medicaid, which is part of the Affordable Care Act, but they don't want to. They have majorities that don't believe in doing that. And that is federal money that sits there, because they don't want to do that. And after that holiday party, actually, in 2016, it was, in 2017, I got together with some other children's book authors, actually, and formed a giving circle,

because we wanted to start focusing on state legislatures. And the first one that we focused on with the States Project, which launched later in 2017, was Virginia, because there were 2017 elections, they have elections in odd years. And we supported 10 candidates, and nine of them won their seats for the House of Delegates. And the balance of power got so close that Democrats were one seat away from taking the majority. And that close balance of power meant that in the next session in Virginia, the state expanded Medicaid. It became one of the states that decided to expand Medicaid. And that meant that 400,000 Virginians got healthcare who hadn't had it before. And our giving circle felt incredibly connected to that policy outcome, but it's another example of a policy that is federal, and yet states are deciding how to implement it. What is a Giving Circle? Can you explain that?

We have a Giving Circles program at the States Project, and it's a way for regular folks to get involved in this, to start to understand the power of state legislatures. to start to understand the power of state legislatures. So it's someone deciding that they want to lead one and starting this project, inviting friends, family, and neighbors in to pool their resources and choose one of our target states and work on shifting power. There are a lot of folks who want to figure out

how to give strategically in a political sense for candidates who are going to support their values. And yet most of what we see are the star name candidates out there. So those folks end up raising way more than they need to run their campaigns because they're in the spotlight. But what we do at the States Project is we look at districts state by state and decide which ones we need to challenge or which ones we need to defend in order to shift power in those states where we think that's possible. And giving circles are the way that we raise our electoral dollars to go into those states and support those candidates and help shift those races.

To put it in other words, it's a group of people, maybe they're from that state, maybe they're not, but they want to help target a specific policy area or a specific candidate in a given state legislature. And instead of one person being like, well, I'll give $10, it's about pooling resources in a more impactful way to give directly to that candidate at the state level so that they have a better chance of either winning or retaining their seat. Am I understanding that correctly? Yes. So Giving Circle is actually, they're giving to the state's project and 100% of the amount that they raise goes out the door to the state that they choose. And when we are in a state, our investments are some direct to candidate, some working with state caucuses,

some working with local partners to put together a program that can shift power. So when we go into a state, we assess our spending and figure out exactly what we need to do. We're in those tipping point districts that can actually shift power in the Capitol. People don't realize how different the United States political system would look if 1,500 more people, I'm just spitballing a number here, if 1,500 more people showed up to vote. It could look radically different. In so many cases, races are won almost because of apathy. So when we say to people, please vote, that seems like this rote thing of like, what can I do? Well, you can vote. It sounds really lame. You know what I mean? Like, I already do that, okay? But in reality, do that, okay. But in reality, actually showing up to vote for state legislature candidates really does make a difference. Absolutely. And it's like, you can go vote, and you can make

sure that you vote all the way down the ballot. Because it really is important. And there's, there's often drop off. And, you know, part of our work with these campaigns is to even, you know, kind of work with the candidates in campaigns to say, listen, every door that the candidate themselves knocks matters because when you get a candidate doorknob, that's the persuasion knock. That's the one you're going to remember that brings you to the polls. That's the one. And so that's an incredible piece that we measure as we work in states is how many doors has the candidate knocked and how can we incentivize that more? And, you know, I would say one of the organizing principles

in giving circles is join yourself and bring a friend in to match what you gave, tell them why you gave that and ask them to match what you gave. And the same thing is true for getting people to vote. Bring one friend. I'm Jenna Fisher. And I'm Angela Kinsey. We are best friends. And together we have the podcast Office Ladies, where we rewatched every single episode of

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Well, we can't wait to see you there. Follow and listen to Office Ladies on the free Odyssey app and wherever you get your podcasts. I know in my state legislature, the person who represented me was unseated by 35 votes. 35 votes. 35 votes. And whether you think that was a good outcome, you're glad she was unseated, or you're sad that she was unseated, literally 40 more people showing up could have resulted in a completely different outcome. That is not unique to Minnesota, to speak to your point. That is happening in states all over the country where somebody wins by the tiniest of margins and truly every single person in the door on election day or if you're voting early, every single person truly does matter in these races. So if you want to feel like you are impacting democracy, you want to feel like showing up is doing something, paying attention to what is happening in your state legislature is a fantastic place to start. That is absolutely true. And that's the kind of thing that you can

change with, again, just a few folks showing up. One of the things I wanted to talk about too, and maybe you have some thoughts on this. When I have mentioned this on my Instagram before, it was met with a lot of, you know, sort of perplexing questions. When I have brought up the fact that candidate quality really matters and candidate development really matters. People are like, what do you mean candidate quality? They think that I'm, you know, trying to categorize people of like, well, this is a grade AA candidate and this one is a grade B candidate. That's obviously not what I'm saying. But some people make better candidates than others do.

And this is just a fact that we can't deny. Candidate development is a concept that I think is a very nebulous one. I think a lot of people are like, I don't understand what candidate development is. And I wondered if you could talk about that a little bit and what it looks like and means for state legislatures. It's interesting because one of the other things that I've learned in the past few years when I feel like I've been in state legislature grad school is that in most of our states, in 40 out of 50, being in the state legislature is a part-time job. And you don't really have staff. And you go to the state capitol for a few months every year.

In Texas, it's officially every two years. And you decide whether to ban abortion or expand Medicaid or fund public education or take away the funds. And that is wild. This is a part-time job. And so it really does impact who can run, right? Totally. And who serves there. Totally. And who serves there. And when we are looking at candidates, like I said, we really prioritize candidates who will knock on doors. And that's for many reasons, one of which is it's a great persuasion and it gets folks out to vote. But also because

when candidates engage with constituents that way is a form of development that helps them to become better representatives when they eventually serve because they are listening to people. And when you get on the doors and you start talking to folks about the cracks in their sidewalk or the softball field that needs more grass or what's happening at the local school, that's when you're really in touch with the people in your district and in these local races especially that matters the other piece of canada development that i think is really important which is kind of a political buzzword right now but it is the storytelling piece it's the piece of why am i running and why do i want to serve this way? Because serving in state ledge does not bring you to a high mountaintop of fame or fortune or spotlight, but it does come with an immense amount

of power, especially if you are serving in the majority. And so everyone who's in that majority really matters and the leaders especially matter. And so with that, those candidates who have kind of developed over the years and become these representatives, that piece of listening and telling their story and telling the story of the people in their communities is incredibly important. And it's important to have candidates, I think, too, and electeds who have been close to the problems that they're trying to solve. Those people often make extremely attractive candidates. It is harder to elect somebody who just moved to your local jurisdiction one year ago. They seem like an outsider, like they don't know what the locals need. The other thing, I've spoken to state legislators about this. means that the type of people who can even run is automatically winnowed down dramatically.

The average citizen would have a very difficult time. Number one, let's say they're an entrepreneur. They can't leave their business for multiple months at a time. You're a single parent. What are you doing with your kids while you leave town for multiple months? If you work an hourly job, I work at Target. Do you just quit? Also, it's not like being in the state legislature pays a lot of money. This is not a lucrative job. It doesn't really even cover expenses for a lot of people. Very true. The socioeconomic status of the people who can serve, people who are wealthier often have a different perspective

than somebody who is of lower socioeconomic status. We're automatically making single parenthood and even a two-parent household of young children making it very, very difficult. And people who work hourly jobs or whose jobs are not flexible. As you mentioned, As you mentioned, in 40 out of 50 states, they're excluded, de facto excluded from the system because of the way the system is constructed. And that I know is a point of frustration when it comes to candidate development, who can serve, not just who would be good at it, but who can serve. That's absolutely true. And I think to that point, it's also incredibly important that we raise the profile on state legislatures and really just start to help people understand what a powerful body it is for our country.

Those 50 mini congresses that are across the country are the foundations of our democracy. When we think about something like the Voting Rights Act and that passing at the federal level, we have to remember that when and if that happens, it also gets implemented at the state level. And that's what we need to shore up the foundations of our democracy, right? And so I think that raising the profile of state legislatures might attract more folks to run. And certainly we've seen that after 2016,

but you're right, making it a more sustainable place for people from all walks of life and in all stages of their lives to be would truly be helpful. It's also states that are attacking those federal laws like the Voting Rights Act. It's also states that are attacking those federal laws like the Voting Rights Act. It's state government that is either attempting to winnow away some of those important pieces of legislation, especially when it comes to things like civil rights, or it is states that

are actively upholding and protecting important principles of democracy. That's exactly right. And that is why, as I said at the beginning, we believe that state legislatures are the most powerful force for change in our country. And our mission really is to help more people see that, to shine a light on it, to help people get involved. And a kind of three-parter that I often say is, if you care about Congress, you should care about state legislatures because state legislatures draw

the district lines that decide who goes to Congress. And if you care about the Supreme Court, you should care about state legislatures because the Supreme Court doesn't write laws, they rule on laws, many of which are coming out of state legislatures. It was a Mississippi law that took down Roe. And if it hadn't been that law, it would have been one of the dozen others that had been written by other state legislatures with the explicit mission of getting them up to the Supreme Court to challenge Roe versus Wade. And if you care about the presidency, you should care about state legislatures, because not only do state legislatures decide who can vote in their state and when and how and whether there's early voting and whether you can vote by mail and all of those things.

before the Supreme Court right now, which will really decide whether to hand plenary power to state legislatures to rule over elections. So this is a place where when we're able to shine a light, we see how much power there is. And the hopeful part of it is there's a real path to action here. hopeful part of it is, there's a real path to action here. It can seem so dark and gloomy and like, oh my gosh, how could I possibly impact climate change or these big things? Democracy, oh my gosh, democracy is at stake, but how can I plug in for democracy? And the path to action there is shifting power in state legislatures because they are deciding on these issues, but they are still not in the spotlight. And we have a chance to really shift power there with way less than it costs and way less energy than it takes to shift power in Washington, DC, where all the focus is. And that's what we're working on. To add to your point of, if you care about Congress, you have to care about state

legislatures. Another thing to remember is that when we're talking about candidate development, where do candidates come from? Most members of Congress were in their state legislatures at some point. And if you care about who eventually goes to Congress, most members of Congress don't appear out of nowhere. Most have served in their state legislatures. don't appear out of nowhere. Most have served in their state legislatures. So if you care about who's in Congress, we have to start caring about who's in state legislatures, because that is where congressional candidates, by and large, come from. Yeah, and not just congressional candidates. There was an Illinois state senator named Barack Obama once upon a time. What are some of the biggest misconceptions that you see as you work on this state's project,

as you talk to people? What are some of the biggest misconceptions that you find that people have about state legislatures? Well, to be honest, I just find that folks don't know very much about them at all. And often when the news reports something like, well, you know, there's a new abortion ban in Texas, I'll have friends text me and say, oh, that Ted Cruz, he's a really, you know, I don't really like that guy. And I'm like, okay, cool. But this has nothing to do with Ted Cruz. This wasn't the people in Washington. This was folks in Austin. And many people would be hard pressed to name any of them. So what I really see is just a general blindness to the power in state capitals and who is

even there. The other thing that I think is really interesting is that people don't quite connect the dots on who's in charge of what impacts their daily lives. And as we've talked about throughout this chat, there are so many more things that are impacted in your daily life, in your state capital than there are in Washington, DC. It is incredibly easy to get intellectually swindled by a candidate who says that they have the power to do something in Congress that they actually do not have the power to do. If you are voting for a senator who's like, I want to improve funding for our local schools, then you're going to be really sad for the next six years when they do absolutely nothing for

your state schools, because United States senators have almost absolutely nothing to do with your state schools. But of course, if you feel like, well, I voted for them because they wanted to do X, Y, and Z related to schools, you're going to be sat because they said that to only get your vote. If you are educated on what exactly state legislatures have the power to control versus what Congress has the power to control, you actually might find that you are maybe less frustrated with the system when they don't keep their promise to change education, because you knew going into it, well, they're just saying that to get votes, they don't actually have the ability to say, school district A needs

more money for teachers, they can't control that. If they wanted to control that they should stay in the state legislature where they came from. That's right. That's absolutely right. And I think, you know, when you're looking at federal candidates, I do this now because I've started to be like, I don't know, you don't have that much power. But the truth is, of course, they do in many regards. And I think you want to elect someone who shares your values, right? That's that's it's the values messaging that you need to go on there. But absolutely, if you care about the funding for your public schools, look to your state legislator. And stop pinning all of your hopes and dreams onto your favorite congressional candidate who may or may not themselves even understand what they have the power to affect in Congress. Nobody is born knowing how to be in Congress.

Nobody is born knowing how to be in Congress. Nobody is born with that. And they may or may not have availed themselves of the opportunity to actually learn what they will have the power to affect if and when they get to Congress. Yeah, that's absolutely true. And, you know, I talk to people a lot who, you know, really think like, oh, I'm deep in this political stuff. And I know just what's going on. And that's because they've looked beyond the president. It counts as being kind of politically aware if you know who your senator is and if you know who, well, who your two senators are, and if you know who goes to Congress for you, that's an extra level of knowledge. So even folks who are that aware often can't name their state representative. With the Giving Circles, we made this kind of a Thanksgiving challenge, like around the

Thanksgiving table, just ask people in your family, do you know who goes to your state capital for you? And let's all look it up because it's a real education and it can be a real education that leads to being able to advocate for things that are really important to you. A website that people can use, maybe you've used this, maybe you have other suggestions, but a website people can easily use to find out who's representing them in their state legislature is openstates.org. That's right. That's the best one. And just put in your address and they will tell you exactly who represents you in your state legislature. And they will give you their phone

number, their mailing address, their email address. You don't even have to hunt it down. It's like, oh, right on that screen. Openstates.org is a great place to get off this podcast and be like, okay, well, I'm going to find out who represents me. And I think you will be shocked at how much ability you have to interact with the person who represents you in your state legislature. They might not do what you say, you don't get to be, you know, the dictator of what they will do. But the chances of you actually getting a response from them, or be able to set up a meeting with them, get them on the telephone are way greater than you probably realize. Absolutely. Very high. The last time I called my state legislator, he himself answered the phone. And so that's exactly it. That's exactly

it. There's so much access. Where can people get involved? How can they start learning more about their state legislatures? And they've listened to this podcast, they're like, okay, I'm convinced powers in state legislatures. What can the average citizen do from here? Well, of course, they can go look up their own state legislator, as we just suggested, which is a really great way to start. And statesproject.org is our website where you can learn more about our work and our work to shift power to elect majorities that are focused on improving lives. Currently, there's a banner at the top that you can click on to see our 2022 report on results and impact. And there's a link to go to the Giving Circle section of the website, which will tell you kind of a little bit more about Giving Circles and how to start one and how to connect with our team

so that you could organize a group of friends and family and colleagues to potentially target a state in 2023 or 2024 and see about shifting power. Thank you so much for being here. This was incredibly useful. And I hope it really inspires people to show up for state elections, to be one of those sometimes a couple dozen people that make the difference between one candidate getting elected and another one getting elected that they realize exactly where power lies and how to move the levers of change. Absolutely. Well, thanks for having me. Okay, was that not incredibly impactful? Don't you have like little mind blown emoji faces above your head that so much of the political power in the United States is in the hands of incredibly accessible individuals.

So you can go to statesproject.org for more information about the work Melissa Walker does. You can go to openstates.org where you can enter your address and easily look up who represents you in your state legislature and learn quickly how to contact the people who control an incredible amount of the power

in the United States. I'll see you again soon. Thank you so much for listening to Here's Where It Gets Interesting. If you enjoyed this episode, would you consider sharing it on social media or leaving us a rating or review on your favorite podcast platform? All those things help podcasters out so much. The show is written and researched by executive producer Heather Jackson, Valerie Hoback,

and Sharon McMahon, edited and mixed by our audio producer Jenny Snyder, and it's hosted by me, Sharon McMahon. We'll see you again soon.