Here's Where It Gets Interesting - How Millennials Can Move the Political Needle with Charlotte Alter

Episode Date: December 10, 2021

In this episode, Sharon is joined by TIME correspondent, Charlotte Alter, to discuss millennials in politics. Charlotte shares her thoughts about how the unique political climate of the past 20 years--as millennials hit young adulthood--has affected the way they view government, politics, and social issues. Together, Sharon and Charlotte tackle the reasons why it’s been difficult for millennials to carve out their own political paths, and share ways in which they can turn over political power to a more diverse and younger generation of change makers. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello, hello, welcome. So excited that you're here. I'm so excited to be sharing this conversation with Charlotte Alter. Charlotte is a senior time correspondent, and she's the author of a book about millennials and politics. And she had so much to share that I found absolutely fascinating. Millennials think very differently about government than their predecessors do. So without further ado, let's just dive right in and you're going to hear some very eye-opening, interesting things about We Are the Ones We've Been Waiting For. I'm Sharon McMahon, and welcome to the Sharon Says So podcast. Hey, Charlotte, thank you so much for joining me today. I'm so happy you're here. Thank you so much for having me, Sharon. One of the things I am so excited to chat with

you about is about millennials in politics, millennials in leadership. And I was so intrigued by your book because it really focuses on what is currently shaping millennials. But I want to start really with the title of your book, The Ones We've Been Waiting For. Tell me, how did you land on that and what does it mean? That's a great question. So The Ones We've Been Waiting For, it's taken from this Barack Obama speech. But I think the really important word in this phrase is ones, that we're talking about a plurality of people. We're not talking about one single savior who is going to come along and magically fix this country, really power being exercised in the plural.

And I think that that's one of the things that I really tried to get at in this book, which is that for many reasons, having to do with the way movements are built now, having to do with social media, having to do with the way people operate in networks, we're sort of moving away from this kind of great man theory of history and towards a more pluralistic and systemic idea of how American politics works. I love that. We have moved beyond this idea of a gentleman on a white horse will soon ride in to save us from our woes. Exactly. That's not what we're waiting for. We are the ones we've been waiting for. I would love to hear a little bit more about your

perspective about how millennials differ from their previous generations in terms of how they approach things like activism, like political leadership. And of course, we're speaking in broad generalities. Of course, of course, of course, of course. And, you know, like, I always feel like I have to make sure people understand that I'm not really arguing that millennials are better than other generations. They're just better. It's not about better or worse. It's just about different and why. And each generation has its own set of unique perspectives. And one of the things that I learned in researching this book, essentially social science and political researchers have found that people tend to form their political identities in their early adulthood, often in response to the major world and historical events of that time. So what this book does is it tracks the events that millennials have experienced in their early adulthood that will shape their worldview for decades to come and how. Those events are roughly 9-11, which is where I really kind of start the book because

that was for most people born between 1980 and 1997. And that's the sort of cutoff for millennials. For most millennials, 9-11 was kind of the first major huge world historical event that they experienced in their own lifetime. And then it follows them through the economic pressures of the 1990s and early 2000s into the financial crisis, into the election of Barack Obama, which was a really pivotal moment for many millennials, since he kind of was in some ways the candidate of young people. And he delivered on that promise in some ways and didn't deliver on it in other ways. And then through some of these major social movements of that time, like Occupy and Black Lives Matter, which really shaped how millennials think about political power and how it can be mobilized in mass and doesn't need

to wait for a single person to lead one of these movements. And then the book kind of ends with the election of Donald Trump, which was for many millennials, like the sort of push off point that got them actually to run for office and actually to begin participating in our political system in a real way in which they were putting themselves on the line. Knowing that these kinds of events shape the thinking of a generation. Obviously, if you are 22 years old, when Hitler is in power and every young man you know is off fighting in a war. That shapes your thinking dramatically. That shapes your worldview, what we should be doing at home, what we should be doing abroad, et cetera. And so as a result of things like 9-11, like these very pivotal elections

in US history where we're electing Donald Trump, electing Barack Obama, how has that shaped millennial thinking? It took me a whole book to unpack that. So I'll do my best to kind of keep it short and sweet. I think there are several major ways that these events have kind of shaped this worldview. But the one that has been most helpful to me is a sense of disillusionment in the people who were supposed to be in charge. In many ways, each of these events, each of these major events represents a collapse of authority or a collapse of trust in some of these major establishments and institutions. So for example, 9-11 and the subsequent wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, which were fought mostly by millennials, represented a sort of collapse in trust of the American foreign policy establishment.

The financial crisis represented a collapse in trust of financial authorities, you know, people who said, oh, hey, try these, try these cool new mortgages. They'll be great for you. And, you know, frankly, trust in political authority has also been in some ways kind of dented because in 2016, almost every political expert said, you know, all the polls show Hillary Clinton is going to win. Donald Trump could never win an election. So that I think one of the main takeaways is that millennials have grown up in this period where over and over and over again, the people who were supposed to have authority, the people who were supposed to know better have failed. That is so interesting.

I am curious about your take on whether or not it is a new phenomenon that these institutions can't be trusted or is it just that we know about it now? Obviously we have systems now that we didn't have, you know, a hundred years ago, obviously, but it's not like we have never had a horrific attack on American soil. We had one of those before. Yes. I do think much of this is cyclical, you know, to your point, this isn't the first financial crisis. This isn't the first attack on American soil. It's not the first time American young people have been sent overseas to fight in a war

that was fought on dubious premises. What is different about these moments is not necessarily that we know about it. Although the speed with which we get information and the speed with which that information like goes everywhere is certainly social media has a huge amount to do with this. And I think that that has led to a sense of all of these things kind of happening at once. that common to have an attack on American soil, two major financial collapses, if you include the one that just happened with COVID. The election of a unique figure, to put it mildly, in American history and a foreign war, all of that happening within a 20-year period is not that common. The point is not that these historical events are necessarily totally unprecedented. It's just that the generation that's experiencing them has a unique set of experiences that the young people in the 1930s or the 1940s or the 1960s

didn't necessarily have. And so that's why they're playing out a little bit differently. Do you think millennials fundamentally want different things than previous generations? Obviously, as times change, people have different perspectives about what the government should do for us and what's reasonable for us to expect. But in terms of what we expect from our political leadership, do millennials fundamentally want different things, in your opinion? In general, most people want economic prosperity. They want their loved ones to be safe and secure. They want to be able to have a job and a home and go to the doctor if they get sick. And 50 years ago, you could achieve those things without

a college degree on a single income in most places around the country if you were white. But part of the reason that that so-called American dream was more accessible to earlier generations is because there was more government support in the past. And also there were more good jobs here that could give people that kind of life. And wages were high enough that if you were a white man in the 1950s, you could work at a mine and support a family of four and have a home. And you wouldn't need a college degree to do that. And so millennials are recognizing how that security has eroded. And they're basically demanding that governments step in and provide the security that the private sector once did and has since abdicated.

But I also think, you know, a hugely important aspect of this is climate change because millennials perceive climate change to be an existential threat to them and their families in a way that people who are in their 70s or 80s don't. And so I think that in a lot of ways, many young people, for them, this is not just about like, okay, how can I get a better job so that I might be able to buy a home one day? It's also like, will the town that I buy a home in be burned down in a wildfire in three years? Is my home going to be destroyed by another Hurricane Katrina? Exactly. I'm Jenna Fisher.

And I'm Angela Kinsey. We are best friends. And together, we have the podcast Office Ladies, where we rewatched every single episode of The Office with insane behind-the-scenes stories, hilarious guests, and lots of laughs. Guess who's sitting next to me? Steve! It's my girl in the studio! Every Wednesday, we'll be sharing even more exclusive stories from The Office and our friendship with brand-new guests, and we'll be digging into our mailbag to answer your questions and comments. So join us for brand new Office Ladies 6.0 episodes every Wednesday. Plus, on Mondays, we are taking a second drink. You can revisit all the Office Ladies rewatch episodes

every Monday with new bonus tidbits before every episode. Well, we can't wait to see you there. Follow and listen to Office Ladies on the free Odyssey app and wherever you get your podcasts. Do you feel like millennials are more liberal than Gen X or baby boomers? Or do you feel like there is more diversity of political belief in the millennial generation. What's your take on that? So polls say that millennials are more liberal. It's important to note this isn't universal, obviously. Of course not, right. Obviously there are millennial Republicans, there are millennial independents, there are millennial conservatives, but as a whole, earlier generations were a little bit more evenly split between the

right and the left. And millennials are basically like 65, 35 liberal conservative. And that number has remained fairly stable over the course of now many years. And my book is in a lot of ways explaining why that is, explaining the set of circumstances, the set of failures, and also the set of trends that have led millennials to the left on so many of these issues. One of the other things that is kind of interesting about this is that even younger Republicans are more liberal than older Republicans on some issues like climate change. The way I have been thinking about it is that millennial liberals and millennial conservatives, with some huge exceptions, have a set of problems that they agree on. This is a problem, but they don't agree on the solutions.

One of the things I've been observing with interest about the shift in sort of millennial conservative thinking is about the role of government in regulating big businesses, specifically related to tech. If you think back to like Ronald Reagan, as much hands-off as possible, as much laissez-faire as possible, like let's allow companies to be as prosperous as they possibly can be. And that prosperity will then benefit the rest of society in a variety of ways, job creation, et cetera, et cetera. And now I am noticing a trend towards an encouragement of greater regulation of these big businesses, especially this, you know, this millennial conservative viewpoint, again, speaking very broad generalities. Yes, of course. Yeah. Towards

these big businesses, these massive companies need to be stopped. And that is a very interesting shift that I have just been like kind of observing is this shift away from big business is fantastic and good for all of us to something has to be done about these big businesses. And I just think that's super interesting. It's interesting to watch history happen. Yes, no big businesses. And I just think that's super interesting. It's interesting to watch history happen. Yes, no, totally. And I think this is a great example of a place where young liberals and young conservatives have a meeting of the minds in some ways, but not others. You know, I'm really glad you brought up tech because that's one of the main things that I sort of was thinking a lot about in writing this book is the extent to which

these big tech companies and social media like totally dominate our society right now. And so much of the way we communicate and so much of the way we build community is through these platforms. And often at times it can seem like these older generations simply do not understand them in the way that these younger generations do. And so one of the big challenges, I think, in our sort of, in the fact that our government is so old and that we live in a gerontocracy where this country is run by old people, is that no matter how often they're briefed, by old people is that no matter how often they're briefed, no matter how much they might use their own Facebook, no matter how many white papers they read, they will never be as fluent in how these social media companies work than some of these younger people who've actually grown up

using them. It's like a first language versus a second language. Exactly. Yeah. You can be a great second language speaker and everybody can be like, wow, you're so good at it. But your mind, it was shaped by those early experiences as a baby when it's your first language. Exactly. And that's kind of the point of my book is that, is that the world that we live in is a very different world than it was in the 1970s or the 1950s. Nearly every position of power in this country is occupied by somebody over the age of 65. And that means that their set of experiences is very, very different from the set of experiences of people who grew up in the 21st century. And part of the argument of my book is that we need 21st century leaders for 21st century problems. I once asked a political leader who is in their eighties,

why is this country being led by a bunch of 75 year olds, specifically a bunch of 75 year old white men. His perspective was, we don't want to get off the stage. We still think we have a lot to contribute and we have gotten used to that feeling of having power, that feeling of being the smart ones in the room, and we're not ready to give it up yet. And this is a person in that position. I think that that is exactly true. And I think it gets back to what we were talking about at the very beginning of this conversation of the great man theory of history, which was in many ways kind of the dominant mode for much of the 20th century and before, where it was like, this is the president and he controls everything. And like, this man is the one who decides. And

like, and I think a lot of people who are 20th century leaders still think of themselves in that way. There are the systemic obstacles to younger people running for office are much higher than they were when these older people got in there. And it's worth noting, it used to be that you could run for, you know, state legislature or state Senate with 10 or $20,000, now it costs 100,000, $200,000. Like the cost of running for office has gone way up at the exact time that the net worth of the youngest generation who might be seeking these offices has gone way down. So millennials have less access to capital at the exact moment that you need a tremendous amount of capital in order to run for office in this country. Um, and so I think that that is one of the reasons that our government has gotten so top heavy, because normally you have this kind of healthy

churn of young people who are like, you know, nipping at the heels of these older people who are in power. And now it's just too expensive to do that through the traditional political system. And that's why I think you see so many younger people turning to activism, which is very useful in many ways, but also in some ways limited in the impact you can have. Millennials have had their entire lives documented with cell phones. Yes. And Gen Xers did not have their high school and college years documented by social media. And I absolutely think that has something to do with it. Like what will people dig up about me if I run for office at 35 and I did some dumb stuff in college? Yes. I think that that has a huge amount to do with it because, because this is, you know, this is one of the things where, like I said,

at the very beginning of this conversation, I am not arguing that millennials are better. I'm not arguing that millennials are worse. And one, I think unique way that millennials are both better and worse than other generations is this kind of sort of moral purity test that we tend to hold ourselves and others to. were like 16 years old and also holds every possible thing you've ever done to this incredible standard that nobody can meet. It used to be that a political scandal was, oh, you paid somebody off to get a contract for your buddy for this like state project or something. Yeah. And you did it while you were in office. Like that used to be what a scandal was. Now a scandal could be a bad tweet that you made when you were a junior in college. Yep. That wasn't necessarily problematic then. Cause that was like, a lot of people thought that, and now it's like hugely problematic

as, as viewpoints have changed. Yes. And 15 years later, that tweet comes back to haunt you. Yes. Yes. And people don't want to put their families through that and they don't want to ruin their professional career. Let's say they lose the election or they know I'm not gonna be in office forever. And yet, am I going to get fired from my job when these tweets resurface? You know what I mean? Like it's a tremendous amount of risk for a millennial to consider running for a big office where there are millions of eyes on you. Yes. And you know, one of the things that I kind of unpack in this book a little bit, although I wish I could have done it more, is the extent to which baby boomer parenting kind of contributed to this

attitude among millennials. Because I think you and I both agree that millennials definitely have this sort of ruthless moral attitude towards any type of infraction of like, you did a bad thing, you're gone. So I was kind of trying to look at why that was. And one of the, one of the things that I found that was kind of interesting is that parenting really changed in the 1980s and the 1990s. And the concept of, which is when millennials were kids, right? And the concept of bullying became kind of a real issue that parents were concerned about instead of it being just something like in the 50s, 60s, it was just like, okay. And in the 1980s and 90s, which is when millennials were kids, that is when these zero tolerance programs started. And this idea of someone pushes somebody on the playground once,

they're kicked out of school. Someone calls somebody a name in class, they're suspended. As part of this response to bullying, which is, as we know, a very real issue and can result in real trauma for kids, it created this sense of zero tolerance. And so I don't think it's that much of a surprise that the first generation to be raised on zero tolerance policies, which by the way, most negatively affected black and brown kids because black and brown kids would, you know, often be pushed into the criminal justice system, which was like way more destructive, but it's not a coincidence that the generation that was raised on these zero tolerance policies is also the generation that now kind of like self polices in this has zero tolerance, has zero tolerance. Yes. Shocking how that turned out. Yes. It is shocking turn of events., parenting matters. Yeah.

That is such an interesting point. I don't know that I had thought of that. I absolutely have pondered this sort of like moral purity test that we have enforced on people because it is, it's so apparent. It's so apparent what, what people used to turn a blind eye to like JFK, Marilyn Monroe. Well, she's pretty, you know, I get it, but he's doing so many great things for the country. You know, like there's, and of course not everybody has that moral purity, but social media sure does. Instagram sure does. The idea that you would be just completely raked over the coals on a daily basis, all over social media, your psyche can't handle that. Like humans are not

meant to withstand that level of criticism. Right. Yeah. And that's, I think one of the sort of downsides to this interconnected social media world is that you're exposed to the criticisms and thoughts of people who you've never met and never will meet and have nothing to do with your life. That's right, yes. Well, let's talk about how millennials are the ones we've been waiting for. What can millennials do? We've talked about all of the challenges facing them.

We've talked about the forces that have shaped them. We've talked about how they have different perspectives than their parents and previous generations. What can millennials do to begin to affect the type of change they want to see in this country? So I think it's already starting. These last elections since 2016, millennials have really woken up. And 2018, there was record youth turnout in those midterm elections. But I think the real thing that millennials can do to affect change and build the country they want to live in is to really be paying attention to these state and local races, because those are the first rungs of the ladder for younger people.

That is often where some of the big decisions about things like climate change, about things like racial justice and voting rights, about things like abortion, many of those decisions are actually made on the state level. So I, in some ways, think that one of the mistakes that millennials are making is focusing so much on national politics and national trends. And I would encourage young people and really all people to really, really focus on what is happening in their state, because that is where you have really the most power to affect change. And there are some groups, you know, there's a group called Run for Something, which is built specifically to help young people run for these state and local offices and to help guide them through that process.

If you want to get involved in politics, the way to do it is not to run for U.S. Senate. The way to do it is to run for state legislature or help somebody run for state legislature. Your time and your money and your enthusiasm goes a lot farther in these state races than it does in these big, big national races. So I really encourage people to focus their energy there. I love that. I think that is absolutely so true. And that is also where candidate development occurs. Yes. That is where we're going to get the next Senator from very rarely does a Senator just say, you know, I have been a server at Applebee's and I am now going to be a Senator. Very rarely does that happen. And so

that is, if you want better candidates, you need to start a lot earlier. Yes. You need to start so much earlier, sometimes a decade or more in advance, in candidate development at the state and local level. Exactly. Exactly. I would love for people to know where to follow you, know where to read more about your work. Can you give us all of the details? Sure. Yes. Okay. So my book is called The Ones We've Been Waiting For, How a New Generation of Leaders Will Transform America. And that is out in paperback now.

And I'm a senior correspondent for Time. So you can find a lot of my work on time.com or in the magazine. And you can also follow me on Twitter at Charlotte Alter. time.com or in the magazine. And you can also follow me on Twitter at Charlotte Alter. This was absolutely fascinating. I loved chatting about this with you today. Thank you so much, Charlotte. This was so fun, Sharon. Thank you so much for having me. Thank you so much for listening to the Sharon Says So podcast. I am truly grateful for you. And I'm wondering if you could do me a quick favor. Would you be willing to follow or subscribe to this podcast or maybe leave me a rating or a review or if you're feeling extra generous,

would you share this episode on your Instagram stories or with a friend? All of those things help podcasters out so much. I cannot wait to have another mind-blown moment with you next episode. Thanks again for listening to the Sharon Says So podcast.