Here's Where It Gets Interesting - How Women Won WWII: Caught by the Enemy

Episode Date: February 13, 2023

Today, in our documentary series, How Women Won WWII, we learn about WWII's most decorated spy: a woman whose spirit and determination in the face of danger is unparalleled. Born in France, Odette Sansom joined Britain's SOE and used her unassuming, motherly demeanor to successfully grow the resistance network throughout the French countryside. But the work was perilous, and the Nazis closed in on Odette and her team. Tune in to learn her survival story. Hosted by: Sharon McMahon Executive Producer: Heather Jackson Audio Producer: Jenny Snyder Written and researched by: Heather Jackson, Sharon McMahon, Valerie Hoback, and Amy Watkin Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello, friends. Welcome. Welcome to Episode 10 in our documentary series, How Women Won World War II. And just a little content warning, this episode has some discussions of Nazi violence that may be difficult to hear. It may not be appropriate for young children. it may not be appropriate for young children. In mid-1942 Britain, a mother and her three young daughters approached an unassuming convent in the English countryside. The little girls were apprehensive but excited. Their mother had meticulously talked up the time they would be spending at this new fun school. The mother, however, was heavy-hearted and reluctantly left her daughters at the school along with a box of letters to each of them

celebrating their upcoming birthdays and holidays. She also included a letter to be opened in the event of her death. I'm Sharon McMahon, and here's where it gets interesting. The mother who felt she had no choice but to leave her daughters in the care of nuns? Her name was Odette Sansom, codename Lise, And she became World War II's most decorated spy. Odette's life was difficult from the very beginning. She was born in 1912 in a quiet French village outside of Paris.

Her father was killed in World War I, leaving behind Odette and her brother to be raised by their mother and paternal grandparents. When Odette was seven years old, just a few months after her father was killed trying to rescue some wounded soldiers, she was stricken with a severe case of polio. Odette was paralyzed for more than a year, and then somehow, almost miraculously, she recovered and was able to walk again. But her childhood bad fortune didn't stop there. Odette lost her vision, and she was blind for three years. During her blindness, Odette was inspired by Beethoven, who had gone deaf,

and she learned to play the piano by feel, filling her days with the sound of music. Odette's mother refused to give up, refused to accept that Odette would be blind forever. She found an herbalist who prescribed a solution for Odette's eyes, and it worked. Her vision began to improve within weeks. When Odette was a teenager, she came down with rheumatic fever, which today we know can be caused by strep throat that hasn't been properly treated. Again, Odette experienced paralysis with her illness, and again, her mother refused to give up. Like many people of her era, Odette's mother believed that the fresh, salty air of the seaside could be tremendously healing, so she relocated her family to the shores of Normandy, France.

There, Odette did improve and slowly grew healthy again. She spent the remaining few years of her adolescence on the idyllic seaside shores of Normandy. Living on the coast, Odette spent much of her free time socializing with British sailors who came and went from the nearby ports, and it was there that she met a British sailor named Roy Sansom. At age 18, she and Roy married, moved across the Channel, and settled into a new life in London. They quickly welcomed three daughters of the Channel, and settled into a new life in London. They quickly welcomed three daughters of their own, and then Odette watched, horrified, as Hitler began his march across her home country of France.

Women all over Britain joined the war effort, but Odette doubted she had anything to offer. She had three young children to care for and a health history that made her hesitant to take on a strenuous job. One day in early 1942, Odette learned of a request. The British Navy needed pictures. Specifically, they needed pictures of the Normandy coast. Knowing that she had numerous photographs from her years living there, Odette scoured her belongings for anything that might be of help to the war effort, and she mailed them in. Odette didn't know it at the time, but those very photographs proved to be quite useful as the massive D-Day invasion was planned. illness that had brought her to a life at the seaside, became a key component in the dominoes that led to the Normandy invasion and ultimately to the Allies' defeat of the Axis powers. In another twist of fate, the photos she sent in went to the wrong place, the war office instead of the navy. But the War Department realized they had a woman

living in Britain who was from France, and they thought she might have other information that could be helpful. When the War Office called her, Odette accepted an appointment, assuming they'd ask her to be a translator or perhaps a cook. But Odette didn't sit down with just anyone. cook. But Odette didn't sit down with just anyone. Her meeting was with Vera Atkins, who was recruiting for the SOE. Odette was shocked to find that the British government didn't want her to be a cook or a translator. What they wanted was something far more dangerous. They wanted her to be a spy. Here she is describing her feelings about that moment. Well, they said, go to France. And I said, yes, well, you know, doing what? I can't do anything. I just can't. You've got the wrong person altogether. I don't want to go. I have my

children and they come before anything else. I am not capable of any of doing anything there they say no of course not not as you are but you know we would train you as we train our main agent and I said I'm sorry I don't even want to do the training. So what changed your mind and made you really go and do the training to become an agent? I think when it came to it, the way I was brought up was stronger than anything else. You know, the seed was there. Her husband Roy had been away in military service for two years by this time, and she truly had no idea if he was alive or dead. As a single mother, the responsibility she felt for her children weighed heavily on her, but she couldn't help but feel that a responsibility for her children

meant a responsibility to help win the war. Or what kind of life would her children have? If the British government thought she could be of great use to them, then, she thought, I must go. The most likely outcome of Odette's service was that she would die. That is how dangerous it was to spy for the SOE. She was more likely to die than to live. Her training was similar to Virginia Hall's and Nancy Wake's, and it began at Baker Street. The F-Section's Colonel Buckmaster was alarmed at how young Odette was and the fact that she was leaving behind three children at a convent school, but there was no time to be choosy. If Odette's children had any chance at a future,

Buckmaster and Odette's allegiance had to be to the war effort. Because Odette was raised in France, Buckmaster found that she was easily able to integrate into French society, even accurately mimicking the accents found in various regions of the country. Odette had a determined, almost defiant spirit. But physically, she was unassumingly delicate. She had a shy smile and a girl-next-door approachability. She was slightly built with a wreath of curly hair that framed her soft, youthful face. She looked like an innocent housewife. The SOE training program taught her Morse code, self-defense, and interrogation resistance skills. She learned how to fire every weapon available in Europe with one hand. And for good measure, they taught her how to win a knife fight, too.

In 1942, the average amount of time a spy would spend in France before their cover was blown was just six weeks. After that approximate six weeks, the end result was usually one of two things, a daring escape or certain death. Colonel Buckmaster and Vera Atkins warned Odette, it will be physically and mentally exhausting, weaving a giant web of lies. If you slip up, there will be little we can do to save you. And you are likely to face prison, the firing squad, the rope, the crematorium, or whatever happens to amuse the Gestapo.

Odette was mentally tough from her childhood of battling paralysis and blindness, but physically she was still weak. During her paratrooper training, she made a mistake during the landing and got a severe concussion. Many spies were flown over France in the dead of night and dropped, nearly silently, from a plane and into a new life. But they couldn't risk Odette injuring herself again trying to stick the landing, so they came up with an alternative plan. She would go by boat around Spain through Gibraltar and into the French Riviera. There, she would encounter less immediate danger, and although the Vichy French government that occupied southern France was not filled with Gestapo, they answered to them. While on the journey, she practiced making her new identity feel natural.

She was now Lise Medaille from Dunkirk. Odette landed in November 1942 and connected with her contact there, a man named Peter Churchill, the leader of a spindle network, which were circuits of people who had various responsibilities supporting the French resistance movement. Every circuit had a leader, a courier, and a radio operator. In the case of Odette's circuit, she was the courier. Peter Churchill was the leader, and a man named Adolf Rabinovich was the radio operator. At one point, there were as many as 43 of these spindle circuits operating throughout occupied France, although the number was quite fluid as people's covers were blown and circuits had to disband. Odette was there to do whatever was needed, and that meant that sometimes she was a courier,

but she also smuggled weapons, filled in to operate the radio, and served the broader mission however she could. Let's pivot for just a second so I can recap what was going on in France during World War II. So Hitler invaded France in May of 1940, and within a month, French leadership had signed an armistice agreement, which gave Germany control over the top half of France, which included Paris, and that is what you might have heard referred to as occupied France. The official government of France said, we will relocate to the town of Vichy, and we will remain French. Germany, leave us alone and we'll leave you alone. Small problem. The Vichy government was actively collaborating with Hitler. And at one point, they rounded up 14,000 Jews and put them on a train to Auschwitz. One man who believed himself to be the rightful leader of France, Charles de Gaulle,

had exiled himself to London and later to Algiers, organizing a resistance movement called the Free France Movement, giving inspirational speeches that were broadcast on the airwaves. And he gave French people reason to hope that France could and would be a free and independent country again. The main task of Odette's spindle network was to organize a resistance army of 20,000 people who were prepared to rise up and defend France, giving the Allies support where the Normandy invasion took place. Historian Sarah Rose described what it was like to try and recruit people for this 20,000 person group that they were trying to create. She said, one of the most important things to realize is that you're not recruiting the best soldiers in France. things to realize is that you're not recruiting the best soldiers in France. You are recruiting the worst soldiers in France because the best soldiers in France are all in jail.

The second best soldiers in France are working in war factories. You're recruiting old men and teenagers. You are recruiting on the margins of France. You're recruiting the people who are sort of taking care of an entire household or say 10 women in a family farm. And you're asking them to leave their family farm and go live badly in the hills. You're basically camping, learning how to blow up a train, learning how to take down power lines. And if you're caught working in the resistance, it's a death sentence. You will 100% definitely get the worst of Nazi cruelty. But women made for some of the best resistance fighters, especially women like Odette, who were skilled at turning on the charm for the sake of misdirection.

During Christmas time of 1942, Peter Churchill, Odette, and a few other of their network spies were in a tavern when enemy guards walked in, suspicious of the group. Fearing discovery, Odette took control of the situation and approached the men warmly, asking if they'd move the piano so she could play it. Whether it was the holidays, Odette's charm, or both, the guards complied and everyone enjoyed singing along to Odette's cheerful carols. No covers were blown thanks to Odette's quick thinking. In that moment, she was so glad that her childhood blindness had forged her relationship with music, which, quite possibly, saved her life that night.

Another moment found her pulled over while she was driving after curfew, and she managed to convince the guard that she was racing to get to her sick child. He took in her sweet, alarmed face and believed her story, letting her leave without further questioning. Odette soon moved on to new work, setting up safe houses for radio operators and other agents. It was dangerous, and she often found herself needing to hide quickly and quietly. On one occasion, she was actually forced to spend the night in a brothel. The madame running it was a French sympathizer, and when Nazi troops showed up that night looking for someone else, she was able to direct them away from Odette's room by telling them that her

niece with smallpox was in there and no one should enter. In early 1943, things within the Spindle Network were beginning to disintegrate. Peter Churchill and another agent were ordered back to London for some reworking of the system, and Odette was part of the team that would help to get them safely out of the country. It took a few attempts, however, to make it happen. They continually found themselves right in the middle of German traps. During one of the evacuation attempts, the group of four was forced to run in all directions, trying to escape the German soldiers. Hunting dogs bit at her ankles as she ran through the woods. She made it to an icy river, crossed it in waist-deep freezing water, and lost the dogs

and soldiers. Eventually, Peter made it out of the country, and Odette took over many of his duties while he was gone. When he returned a few months later and they began their hike to their new safe house, Odette fell and broke a bone in her back. She played it off as if it wasn't serious, but she was in tremendous pain. While both Odette and Peter outlasted the expected six weeks by many months, their luck had started to run out. Double agents were infiltrating the resistance circuits. I'm Jenna Fisher. And I'm Angela Kinsey.

We are best friends, and together we have the podcast Office Ladies, where we rewatched every single episode of The Office with insane behind-the-scenes stories, hilarious guests, and lots of laughs. Guess who's sitting next to me? Steve! It is my girl in the studio! Every Wednesday, we'll be sharing even more exclusive stories from The Office and our friendship with brand new guests. And we'll be digging into our mailbag to answer your questions and comments. So join us for brand new Office Ladies 6.0 episodes every Wednesday.

Plus, on Mondays, we are taking a second drink. You can revisit all the Office Ladies rewatch episodes every Monday with new bonus tidbits before every episode. Well, we can't wait to see you there. Follow and listen to Office Ladies on the free Odyssey app and wherever you get your podcasts. In March of 1943, an SOE agent familiar with Odette's spindle team was captured in Paris. The German agent who had him in custody managed to convince him that he was interested in switching sides and becoming a British asset. His lies worked, and the agent trusted him with vital details of where and how to find other SOE agents, including Odette and Peter. Within days, the German agent laid a trap, and Odette and Peter, who were known to the Germans by their

codenames of Lise and Raoul, had been captured. But Odette and Peter's greatest identity ruse had only just begun. Raoul's real name, Odette told their captors, was Peter Churchill. He is Winston Churchill's nephew, she said, and I am his wife. And although Peter Churchill was Peter's real name, he was not related to Britain's prime minister. And of course, Odette was married to Roy and not Peter. But the Germans believed her and her lies kept them alive. A relative of Winston Churchill would be a tremendously valuable bargaining chip for the Germans. And while their captors bought her story that she was Peter's wife, it didn't stop them from trying to get information out of her.

What they wanted was the location of their radio operator, Adolf Rabinovich. The radio operator was the key to organizing all of the rebels in Vichy France, and if they could capture him and his equipment, they would be able to listen in to Allied radio transmissions. To get Odette to talk, they tortured her. They burned her back with a red-hot poker. When that didn't work, they ripped out her toenails. And when that didn't work, they tried a new technique. Enticement. A Gestapo officer came and tried to convince her to go to Paris with him as his companion, where he would take her to concerts and fine dining. She refused every time he asked. Another German officer kept dangling carrots for Odette.

Literally, he put full, warm meals before her, telling her she could eat them in exchange for the information they wanted. But she would not talk, and it led to her near starvation. Some days she resorted to eating bugs that were crawling around where she was kept. When it rained, she stuck her hand out the window and got just enough water to keep her alive for a few more days. In June, they twice condemned her to death, hoping the declarations would make her talk. The only response she ever gave was, well, make up your mind on what count I am to be executed on because I can only die once. Odette's resilience made it so that their radio operator, Rabinovich, whose codename was Arnaud, continued to stay the course on his mission, one that was vital to the success of D-Day the

following spring. Peter Churchill would go on to dedicate one of his books, Duel of W wits to Adolf Rabinovich, calling him, my beloved Arnaud, a violent, difficult, devoted, and heroic radio operator. A Jewish man of Russian and Egyptian descent, Rabinovich had spent time in the United States and Paris before joining the war effort as a radio operator with the SOE and Peter and Odette Spindle Network. His main task was transmitting a large number of messages to London about the plans of the citizen army that Spindle was forming in preparation for D-Day. However, the messages became severely backlogged because he was only able to transmit messages on certain days in order to avoid being caught. At the time of Odette and Peter's capture, the pair knew how behind Rabinovich was in his transmissions. His messages were

vital information for the Allies who needed to know where their inner country supporters were located after they stormed Normandy. In this way, Odette and Peter continued to support the efforts of D-Day by not revealing anything about Rabinovich and allowing him the time and space he needed to complete his messaging tasks. After many, many months of holding her, attempting to get her to talk and receiving nothing, the Germans moved Odette to the Ravensbrück concentration camp. She was transferred with papers that informed the Gestapo there that she was a Churchill relative and to treat her accordingly. This won her a punch in the face upon her arrival, with the guard telling her, that's for Winston. Once inside the camp, guards moved her from one torturous location to another, including

giving her a bed next to the punishment room, where all day, every day, she would hear women being tormented and brought to the brink of death. They would often cut out the lights and turn on the heat all the way up in her cell room, sometimes for a week at a time. When asked about how she survived these dark days, she replied, I grew up in a hot place as a blind child. This was nothing new for me. As the Normandy invasion of the Allies into France was underway, they moved Odette to a cell where crematorium ashes were scattered over the floor. They put her on a starvation diet, which led to her slipping into a coma. After being revived by the doctor at the camp, they moved her to a room where they could keep watch on her.

A room that shared a wall with the cremation activities. All day long, for months on end, she heard the screams of people being murdered and then listened to the crematory fires burn. In an interview shortly after the war, she describes how she made it through those days of torment. In those places, the only thing one could try to keep was a certain dignity. There was nothing else. And one could just have a little dignity and try to prove that one had a little spirit and I suppose that kept one going and when everything was really too difficult too bad then one was inspired by so many things people perhaps a phrase that one remember, that one had heard a long time before, or even a piece of poetry or a piece of music.

One third of the women agents sent to France were tortured and killed after capture, but none of them ever gave away information vital to their SOE missions. Had they done so, it could have been the peace that kept the Allies from advancing, and the Germans may have won it all. On a rare day when she was allowed outdoors at Ravensbrück, Odette spotted a leaf on the ground. To her, it was a tiny, vibrant sign of life in a landscape of death and despair. She scooped it up and held it in her hand as often as she was able to give her strength. Odette later recalled, it was a small leaf and I thanked God I had seen it. a small leaf, and I thanked God I had seen it. My guards paid little attention. They were totally unaware of the significance of the treasure I had acquired. This leaf is now in the possession

of her granddaughter and is regarded as a valuable family heirloom. As the Allied invasion of Europe gained ground, the Germans began to realize that their defeat might be imminent. Thinking that Odette Churchill could be a bargaining chip for him, the commandant at Ravensbrück began a slightly better treatment for her. She was moved to a regular cell room and given regular meals. In May of 1945, she was put into his car and driven for hours. She was convinced that she was being driven to her death, possibly somewhere public where she would be used as an example of what would happen when you didn't play along with the Germans. But the Commandant decided he wanted to escape and believed that a relative of Winston Churchill would be useful in helping the Allies look the other way as he handed her

off and headed off into the night. But he underestimated Odette, who foiled his plan by yelling for the Americans to arrest him immediately. Instead of sleeping the sleep of a newly freed woman, Odette had one last mission she wanted to accomplish. She had the wherewithal to collect the paperwork the Ravensbrück Commandant had on him that demonstrated some of the atrocities that were taking place inside the concentration camp. She knew the Allies would want proof. When she regained some strength, Odette returned to England, and she turned over the papers to the War Department. She was heartbroken that her friend, the radio operator Adolf Rabinovich,

had been captured and killed by the Nazis while she was at Ravensbruck. She testified in the 1946 trial against some of the guards, which led to their conviction and execution. And she was finally given the medical care she had needed for years, including for her back, which had never fully healed from that fall while traveling on foot with Peter. She spent many months in the hospital being nursed back to health so that she could be reunited with her three daughters, who had by then left the convent school and were living with her aunt and uncle. The reunion she had with her daughters was the joyous one she'd imagined through all the years that she was gone. The hope of seeing them again was what kept her alive, minute by minute, so she said.

She presented them with the gift of a doll she had crafted for them from scraps she found around the area where she'd been imprisoned. After Odette's husband Roy died in 1946, Odette remarried. Her new partner? Peter Churchill. The press ate it up. Nothing creates better headlines than the love story of two war spies. Newspapers ran headlines like, story of two war spies. Newspapers ran headlines like, At last we have started our journey together, and their wedding was captured on video. They married in Kensington are two French resistance heroes, Mrs. Odette Sansom, first woman to win the George Cross, and Captain Peter Churchill, DSOMC,

a former commanding officer. May these two gallant people find much happiness in their new life. Odette and Peter were honored by King George VI with the George Cross for acts of greatest heroism and conspicuous courage in circumstances of extreme danger. Between the George Cross and their wedding, Odette and Peter became the poster couple for the success of spies in Britain. Many of the men and women who served in the SOE during the war purposely faded into oblivion, but the two partners in espionage who became partners in life were lauded throughout the world. The press was especially interested in Odette and regularly played up her background as a simple housewife turned spy. A book and a movie about her life followed in 1949 and 1950, and she screened the movie seated next to the king and queen. She also became a member of the

Order of the British Empire. She received a Legion of Honor Award for her service in France, along with five other medals commending her incredible acts of service. In 1951, Odette and Peter's home was broken into and the burglar stole her George Cross. A plea went out to the press to please return the award, and Odette soon found it again on her doorstep with a note attached. You, madame, appear to be a dear old lady. God bless you and your children, the note said. I thank you for having faith in me. I am not all that bad. It's just circumstances. Your little dog really loves me. I gave him a nice pat and left him a piece of meat out of the fridge. Sincerely yours, a bad egg.

Odette always believed that her George Cross was not awarded to her personally, but as an acknowledgement of all those, known and unknown, alive or dead, who had served the cause of the liberation of France. Much of the remainder of her life was cloaked in the same secrecy that was present during her wartime missions. But in the 1980s, aspects of her story began to be declassified and she sat for a number of interviews. Among the things that were revealed was the fact that Odette's superiors had to fight for her to receive the George Cross because she didn't have material evidence of her torture at the hands of the Nazis. Eventually eyewitness accounts proved that what she said was true.

In one of those interviews, Odette said that the worst part of my captivity was the separation from my children. What happened to me in the field didn't matter in a way because I left England with a broken heart, so nothing after that could break it ever again. The rest was just physical. The separation from my children was the only thing that demanded courage. I don't think I could ever do it again. In 2012, the Royal Mail produced the Britons of Distinction series, and Odette was their first stamp. And in 2020, was their first stamp. And in 2020, Princess Anne, the Princess Royal, revealed a train in Odette's honor at Paddington Station in London. Beneath her name on the train are 16 symbols, one for every female SOE agent that gave her life in service to the freedom of Europe. Odette died in 1995, the most decorated World War II spy.

We're beginning to wind down our series on women in World War II, but for the thousands of women who worked on the secrets of the Manhattan Project, the true test is about to begin. Join me next time. Thank you for listening to Hearer's Work. It's interesting. This show is written and researched by Heather Jackson, Sharon McMahon, Valerie Hoback, and Amy Watkin, edited and mixed by our audio producer, Jenny Snyder, and is hosted by me, Sharon McMahon.

We'll see you again soon.