Here's Where It Gets Interesting - Iowa: Musical Chairs with Mary Marantz

Episode Date: September 22, 2021

In this episode, Sharon sits down with Mary Marantz, best-selling author, podcast host, and renowned photographer, to break down the system of the Iowa caucus. Iowa caucuses are electoral events that take place every presidential election among Iowa voters. Compared to the traditional secret ballot most American voters are accustomed to, Iowa has maintained the voting system used by our nation’s founders over 200 years ago. The caucus is a universally confusing concept to voters in states without the practice. Listen to walk away with a better understanding of the Iowa caucus system and how it affects the outcome of our presidential election seasons. For more information on this episode including all resources and links discussed go to https://www.sharonmcmahon.com/podcast Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

It's hockey season, and you can get anything you need delivered with Uber Eats. Well, almost, almost anything. So no, you can't get an ice rink on Uber Eats. But iced tea, ice cream, or just plain old ice? Yes, we deliver those. Gold tenders, no. But chicken tenders, yes. Because those are groceries, and we deliver those too.

Along with your favorite restaurant food, alcohol, and other everyday essentials. Order Uber Eats now. For alcohol, you must be legal drinking age. Please enjoy responsibly. Order Uber Eats now. For alcohol, you must be legal drinking age. Please enjoy responsibly. Product availability varies by region. See app for details. This episode is brought to you by Dyson OnTrack. Dyson OnTrack headphones offer best-in-class noise cancellation and an enhanced sound range, making them perfect for enjoying music and podcasts. Get up to 55 hours of listening with active noise cancelling enabled, soft microfiber

cushions engineered for comfort and a range of colours and finishes. Dyson OnTrack. Headphones remastered. Buy from DysonCanada.ca. With ANC on, performance may vary based on environmental conditions and usage. Accessories sold separately. Hello friends, welcome, welcome. So glad you're here. Today I'm chatting with my friend Mary Marantz, and I just love Mary. She's just so wise, and she is the author of multiple books. She's a podcaster, and we're chatting about the state of Iowa. I asked her, what do you think of when you think of Iowa? And she immediately named the event that we're going to be discussing today. So let's dive into this episode, which I like to call Iowa Musical Chairs. I'm Sharon McMahon, and welcome to the Sharon Says So podcast. Oh, Mary, I'm so glad

you're here. Thank you for making time to do this. Oh my gosh, Sharon, are you kidding me? Like I would not be anywhere else. Any excuse to get to hang out with you. I'm here. That's so nice. I am glad that I carved out a small amount of time in between the 72 books that you are writing. It's basically what I'll be doing for the next hundred years. That's right. 140 years of book writing. That's right. You just wrapped up the manuscript for your second book. If people don't know who Mary Morantz is, tell everybody who you are and what you do. Oh my gosh. Well, I feel like we could talk about this for like days. We're both tall girls. We both were those weird girls in grade school. We could go into like, that's really the real answer to who Mary is. But the short version that we'll just serve for now is I grew up in a single eye trailer in rural West Virginia on the very top of a mountain

called Fenwick Mountain. My dad and eight generations deep in our family, he is, and they were loggers in the West Virginia mountains. I was the first of my immediate family to go to college and I ended up going to Yale law school. And so my first book, Dirt, you know, in a short way, it's humble means to the Ivy league, but that story has been told about a hundred different ways. Really what I like to tell people is it's a story about making peace with your past and the parts of your story that you think disqualify you. I love that. We'll talk more about your upcoming book in a minute, but I have a story I want to share with you. Oh, I cannot wait. I cannot wait. So today we're going to talk about something that makes Iowa super unique. Okay. When you hear Iowa mentioned, what immediately comes to mind? The Iowa caucuses. Yeah. I want to talk about those

today because that is one of the things, aside from farming, what people think of when they think of Iowa. What is it? Why do we have it? What is the story behind it? What are y'all doing in that high school gymnasium? You know, like, I don't get it. Why are there four of them? Like how much pressure can you put on people? Like what's unacceptable? Yeah. Yes. I don't get it. So let's dive in to Iowa musical chairs. So I want to set the stage about what a caucus is. I know that you probably know, but just to get everybody on the same page In this context, a caucus actually just means a gathering of friends. That is the actual technical definition. But in this kind of political sense, what it means is an alternative to a primary election. It is a way for states to

express their preference for a presidential candidate. And I want to talk most specifically about the Democratic caucuses in Iowa. I'll touch on the Republican ones, but the democratic ones, you're going to be like, say what now? First of all, like, can we just talk about why it's caucuses and not caucus I? I feel like that, like, did they have a caucus to decide that? I don't know. First of all, this idea that Iowa is first, right? Like that is the deal. Like they're straight out of the gate. They're the earliest players in this early presidential race situation. And people want to know why is it because Iowa is super important in some way. And in reality, I was a great state, but it's not first because it's important.

It's important because it's first. A hundred percent. Yes. And have they always been first? No. In fact, they were not first until 1972. No way. They actually made a concerted effort to be first after the disastrous 1968 Democratic National Convention. Okay.

Let's go back to 1968 in which the Vietnam War is the hot topic of the country. The Vietnam War is literally ripping the fabric of America apart. The amount of protests, the amount of demonstrations, in many cases, the protests were turning violent. We, of course, had JFK being assassinated early in the 1960s. Lyndon Johnson ascending to the presidency because he had been JFK's vice president early 1968. He had been intending to run for reelection. In fact, he was like, yeah, I'm going to run for reelection. And then when Robert Kennedy, Bobby Kennedy was thinking about running for president, Lyndon Johnson felt like, I don't think I can run against the brother of the dead president. I don't think I can do it. So he decided that he was going to withdraw from the Democratic primary system. He's

going to not run for president again. And so that then left this big vacuum in the Democratic party of who would be the nominee. Earlier in 1968, RFK was assassinated and Martin Luther King was assassinated. Additionally, Malcolm X had already been assassinated. Like it is difficult to overstate the amount of civil unrest that was happening in the late 1960s. We think it's all like woodstock and weed smoking and like hippies, you know what I mean? Like that's our vision of it. But in reality, it was an incredible amount of turmoil. You know, like Martin Luther King was only in his late thirties, had already won a Nobel prize for him to be assassinated. The world truly just did not believe it. There is a very good chance that Lyndon Johnson regretted exiting the Democratic race for president after Bobby

Kennedy was shot. He, you know, had not wanted to run against him. And then once he was out of the picture, there's a lot of evidence that shows that he was strongly looking for a way to like, how do I get back in there? Like, how do I say, actually, I do want to run, right? And he devised this plan, allegedly, where he was going to go negotiate a deal related to the Cold War and a bunch of stuff about the Soviet Union. And then he was going to return from this trip, land in Chicago, where the Democratic National Convention was happening, and then cross his fingers that despite the fact that he didn't campaign, that they were going to hand him the nomination again. That was what many historians think he was secretly hoping to do. Now, of course, we already have a very strong idea of who the

nominee will be heading into the convention, right? Like there aren't surprises anymore. of who the nominee will be heading into the convention, right? Like there aren't surprises anymore, but that's not how it used to be. It used to be like, oh, really? You chose John Tyler as the vice president? Oh, oh, interesting. You know what I mean? It used to be much more about the convention. Interesting. So things did not really go quite as planned for Lyndon Johnson with the Soviet Union. And obviously he did not get the nomination, but he had importantly made a deal with Chicago mayor Daley. There was so much political unrest and he was very, very concerned about the optics of how it was going to look to have violent protests outside of the democratic convention so he said to daily

listen we will have the convention here in chicago but man you have got to get this thing on lockdown like we want max level security there's going to be tv cameras everywhere live tv was kind of a new thing yeah it was you know what i? Like they were very concerned about what could happen on live TV. So he said, security level 100, please. That is what we need, including on the convention floor. So the Chicago police were everywhere around the convention center and they hired private security firm to work inside the convention in Chicago. Okay. And you can watch interviews with some of the delegates that were there about what the environment was like inside the Democratic convention. There was even a very famous event that happened

during the convention. The private security inside of the convention center told the delegates, once you're in here, you can't leave. Like, you know, like you need permission to leave. And one person who was a delegate from Georgia was like, I need to use the restroom. I'm leaving. And the private security was like, no, you're not, you're not allowed to leave. And that person was like, um, I'm a free citizen. I'm a delegate. You see my button? This is a delegate. I am going to the restroom. Like I am not here. So they're being like a ribbon. Yes. Like a big Georgia button that said delegate. Literally this private security company was like, nope, you're out of here. You're getting kicked out of the convention. And the person was like, who are you? You can't kick me out. I am a delegate. And so Dan Rather, who was a reporter at the time, didn't anchor the news.

And he was on live TV and he is trying to ask this delegate, what's going on? He saw this kerfuffle taking place. And Dan Rather made his way over to this delegate and was like, sir, sir, what's your name? What's going on, sir? And one of the private security officers punched Dan Rather super hard in the solar plexus and like knocked him to the ground on live TV. What? They punched Dan Rather, Mary. Oh, thank God. First of all, you said solar plexus and all I can think of is Miss Congeniality's thing. Solar plexus in step, nasal cavity crawling. That's not what Dan Rather sang. But I mean, can you imagine a private security company punching a reporter on the floor of the national convention on live television

so they eventually because they had footage they eventually found the person that did it and like brought them back to dan rather and was like we found the person who did it do you want to press charges and dan rather was like listen there are bigger stories than this. Like, I don't have time to get involved in some kind of criminal situation. I'm fine. But it is noteworthy that Dan Rather got punched in the solar plexus. And kept on going. And kept on going. And it is also just a small taste of what the turmoil was like and how tightly security was trying to grasp a handful of sand. Like the tighter they

grasped, the more grains fell through their fingers and the less control they had over the situation. The more tightly they tried to control, the more people erupted. One person talked about you have to give people room to say their piece or there will be no peace. Yeah. You know, at the time, all these protesters, demonstrators, they were being beaten up by the police. This was not just a, like you guys stay on that side of the line. They were actively being arrested, beaten up, et cetera. Some of them were not being particularly law-abiding or compliant, throwing bags of very inappropriate substances that nobody would want thrown on them. Lots of tear gas involved. At one point, the protesters outside the convention had their own little faux nominating convention in which they decided to nominate a pig to be the president,

like an actual live animal. And so this is all happening on national live TV and the democratic party is absolutely beside themselves of like, this is not going as planned at all. And here we thought we were going to have like a nice tight orderly convention and we're not. So one of the big things that people in the democratic party citizens wanted from this convention was they wanted an anti-war resolution. The majority of the people in the party at the time were very against the Vietnam War. And they wanted that public declaration of we are against the war. We will end the war if we are elected, et cetera. And ultimately, the party failed to adopt that resolution.

And Hubert Humphrey won the nomination for the Democratic candidate. He had been the vice president and he had made promises to people that he would say on the convention floor, I will end the war. And ultimately he did not say that. And when that didn't happen, it just continued to add oxygen on the fire of what was happening outside the convention. A lot of people felt like his nomination was real shady, that Hubert Humphrey had not been out there campaigning. He had not been out there on the primary ballots. They felt like it was backroom wheeling and dealing that got him that nomination. So the fact that Iowa has the earliest caucus in the country is because of the 1968 Democratic Convention.

No way. commission after the convention where they were like, we are gonna look into this situation because how do we get Hubert Humphrey as a candidate? How did we not have an anti-war resolution? How did things go so awry that we lost the trust of Americans? How can we be more transparent in the future? How can we improve the process so that Americans feel like what they're voting for or what they're doing actually makes a difference? Because right now, clearly, based on the behavior of the people outside this convention, nobody believes that. The Democrats got together and decided, based on this commission, the McGovern Commission, that they were going to redo a lot of the rules about how

nominations would be made for their party. So they get together, come up with these new sets of rules, 1968, 1969. Iowa was like, well, listen here. We have the situation in which we caucus. have the situation in which we caucus. We have a first caucus, and then we have a second caucus, and then we have a third caucus, and then we have a state caucus. And we have rules that say there have to be 30 days in between each one of these things. And additionally, it's going to take us a long time to make all of the ballots because literally they had a super old mimeograph machine. Okay. And they were like, it is going to take a long time to print all those ballots. We got to start early. Wow. And so everybody was like, yeah, I guess Iowa, you do have to start early wow and so everybody was like yeah i guess iowa you do have to start early because you got this real convoluted system and an old mimeograph machine

mimeograph for all the youngsters listening is a precursor to a copy machine it's not as fast as a copy machine it was not as blue yeah yeah yeah it's not as fast as a copy machine. It was not as blue. Yeah. Yeah. It's not as good as a copy machine, but literally the reason Iowa is first is because they use a caucus system. And we'll talk about what that means in a minute. And they have all these rounds of caucusing and they had an old machine and it was going to take them a long time to print all the different ballots. It's hockey season and you can get anything you need delivered with Uber Eats.

Well, almost, almost anything. So no, you can't get an ice rink on Uber Eats. But iced tea, ice cream, or just plain old ice? Yes, we deliver those. Goal tenders, no. But chicken tenders, yes. Because those are groceries and we deliver those too. Alongers, no. But chicken tenders, yes. Because those are groceries,

and we deliver those too. Along with your favorite restaurant food, alcohol, and other everyday essentials. Order Uber Eats now. For alcohol, you must be legal drinking age. Please enjoy responsibly. Product availability varies by region. See app for details. Interior Chinatown is an all-new series based on the best-selling novel by Charles Yu about a struggling Asian actor who gets a bigger part than he expected when he witnesses a crime in Chinatown. Streaming November 19th only on Disney+. Visa and OpenTable are dishing up something new.

Get access to primetime dining reservations by adding your Visa Infinite Privilege Card to your OpenTable account. From there, you'll unlock first-come, first-served spots at select top restaurants when booking through OpenTable. Learn more at OpenTable.ca forward slash Visa Dining. Starting in 1972, that is when the rules went into place. Iowa was designated as y'all get to be first. You get to be first because you have all these extra factors. So let's talk about what a caucus is for people who don't know, who are like, I don't, what

is all, what's a caucus say? I don't know what you're talking about. Before you even give this answer though, I have to say every year when I watch with reporters from big stations trying to, I don't feel like most people know what this is. No. So this is specific to the Democratic Party in Iowa. And there is a different process for Republicans. First of all, Iowa has 99 counties. And within each of their counties, they have these designated caucus locations. There are over 1600 of them, 1678 caucus locations. And they can be like a school gym, a public library.

Sometimes they're in people's houses. Okay. First of all, you have to be a registered Democrat to be able to participate in the democratic caucus, but otherwise there's no criteria. Anyone can caucus as long as you're a citizen, you're going to be 18 by the general election, and you registered member of the party. That's the criteria. You show up at your caucus location, and they have signs in the different corners of the room for the different candidates. So they might have in one corner, a sign that says Mary Morantz and in another corner, Sharon McMahon. And in another corner, we might have Severus Snape and over here, we might have Minnie Mouse. You know what I mean? Like there's literal signs in the corner and then they say to

everybody, okay, let's go ahead and caucus everybody go. And you literally walk over and stand by the sign of the person you want to vote for. You go stand in the corner, Minnie Mouse. And then they look around and they're like, okay, here we go. Let's count. Let's count it up. In this scenario, let's say that there's a hundred people in the room., here we go. Let's count, count it up. In this scenario, let's say that there's a hundred people in the room. You have 34 votes. Let's say I have like 30 votes and Minnie Mouse gets 14 votes and Severus Snape gets 10 votes. And let's say there's also a corner that has like Frodo in it and they get 12 votes, right? Yeah. They go around, they count everybody and they're like, well, Sharon and Mary are definitely it because they have over 15% of the vote. They're

definitely in. And now they have to figure out what to do with Minnie and Frodo and Snape because none of them got 15% of the vote. So now people literally get a set amount of time to walk around the room and try to convince other people to come stand by them, literally. So by the way, the people who already stood by you and stood by me, because we have over 15% of the vote, they're locked and loaded in fact you could go home you don't get to change your vote okay you're done you don't get to walk around you don't get to try to change your vote like you voted for mary you're staying with mary and now they have a system where you would then fill out a little card being like i voted for mary moran's here's my name

as well it used to be interesting they had no paper trail at all. It was literally like you had to see it with your eyeballs or you are SOL. I have so many questions. Okay. Let me just, just rapid fire. First of all, are there official counters? Are there people who come and check those counters? How do we know there's not like shadiness happening at the counting level? That's my first two questions. My third question is, can there not be any like, oh, I not only have 15%, I have 25%. So what I'm going to do is I'm going to keep my 15% of the extra 10%. I'm going to then like loan to my friend. Okay. So here's the answer to your question. There are official counters and they rely on everyone in the room being like an eyewitness to the idea because all

of the numbers are published. Now they publish three sets of numbers. They count everybody and they say, here is what happened after the first round. Now, everybody who voted for me and you, because we have over 15%, their votes cannot change. Everybody who got less than 15% of the vote, all of the people can try to convince them, come stand over here by Minnie Mouse. Here is why you should vote for her. She has the cutest white high heels. Come over here. You know what I mean? And if they can get enough people to come stand by Minnie Mouse in the second round, then Minnie can stay in. And this is my question.

The people who are in the 15% and over, shouldn't there be a chance for them to be swayed over to other sites or for them to try to sway enough people so that there are no more 15% people? So all of that swaying that happens, first of all, most of it happens before they even take the first round. There are people who are there at the beginning who are giving speeches of like, please come stand by Mary. Here is why you should vote for Mary. And the people who, when I say they can go home, they can go home. They don't have to go home.

It's not a like, you must leave now, but you don't get to change your vote. That is part of the Iowa rules. It's changed a like, you must leave now, but you don't get to change your vote. That is part of the Iowa rules. It's changed over time, but now the Iowa rules are because they want to streamline it. They wanted to make the process more efficient. Once you have voted and you are with a candidate who has received greater than 15% of the vote, you don't get to change your vote. Only people who are aligning with a candidate who has less than 15% of the vote gets to move around the room in a game of Iowa musical chairs on the second round of caucusing.

Yeah. So people literally get about a half an hour to walk around and try to convince other people, Hey, you should really come stand by Snape. And other people are like, heck no, look at his costume. Get out of here. You know what I mean? His costume is trash. They get to have their 30 minutes of saying their piece about why other people should come stand by them instead. And then they say, okay, let's do it. And they make everybody go stand by who they want to stand by for the second round. And then they count again. And then that's it. Wow.

Do you have any statistics on how many people come to the caucus undecided? Undecided? I don't know. But the Iowa voters do tend to be proud of the fact that they want somebody to try to convince them of why they should earn their vote. This idea that you need to convince me, it's your job to earn my vote. For the Democratic Party in Iowa, it ends up being a couple hundred thousand people out of the entire state that comes to these types of caucuses. So then they publish the results and they publish the results of the first round and of the second round. And then they do some kind of additional level of mathematical

calculation in which they publish a final number of what percentage of delegates a candidate would earn. Right. Okay. That's just the first round, Mary. Then a month later, they have a congressional district caucus. Then a month later, they have a state level caucus. Then from there, some of those state level delegates will head to the national convention. I'm so confused. What is changing between those going to the district and then going to the state level? Are the same voters going out and doing it again? Or it's like their representatives are now doing it? How does that work? Out of the original caucus, a certain number of delegates are selected and it is very easy to understand and it is very straightforward as one could see a certain number of delegates are selected and so all of those delegates then move on to the

congressional district caucus they go through a similar process and then a smaller number heads to the state level out of the many many many, many hundreds or even thousands, depending on the year of delegates that they begin with, they will narrow it down to a pool of around 41 delegates that will head to the national convention. And then are those delegates at the national convention free to go rogue? Yes, they are free to go rogue. And they also have reserved eight superdelegates. And so when you hear all the news, you're like superdelegate, what now? Those are delegates who have not pledged to vote for anybody and nobody knows who they're going to vote for. And they go into the national convention and we'll just vote for

who they see fit. And so those super delegates are wild cards. The way that somebody actually secures the nomination of their party is based on the number of delegate votes they get at the convention. We think it's just like, yay, it's Mary. her lipstick is so great. No, you still have to earn all the votes. Now it is more of a foregone conclusion, you know, heading into a convention. It's more of a foregone conclusion who the nominee will be. Even in the 1960s, it was not a foregone conclusion. You sometimes went into the convention and they were like, oh, really? Oh, interesting. Humphrey. Huh? I didn't know he was going to get picked. And now we have such a good idea of who the Democratic nominee and who the Republican

nominee will be, right? Like we don't have surprises anymore. But at the time, these conventions were not just about the TV shows. Now conventions are like, and then Bob gave a very moving speech. And then Sam said some things that I'll repost on Instagram. You know what I mean? Like that's what it is now. But at the time, those speeches were actually meant to try to sway delegates to vote for a specific candidate.

And we don't really have that anymore. Okay, so here's my next question. Does Iowa have it in their law that made them first and made them a caucus? The date of our first caucus shall always be one week before any other primaries, any other state. Is New Hampshire like gunning for that spot? Well, New Hampshire, yeah. New Hampshire has the first primary. New Hampshire doesn't have a caucus. By the way, Nevada this year passed a law saying, actually, we're going to be the first primary. Nevada wants to be the first. And to answer your question, yes, it is a rule that they want to be first. Additionally, the national party says they have to be first. And if another state passes a law trying to come before them, then they. We're first. The national convention is like, fine, you get fewer votes than less. The goal of like protecting Iowa's status as first.

But why, why does the party care so much? Is it purely because so many eyes are on it because it is so unusual? It is now. It has become this like symbol of the early political races, the political returns. And now it has become something that candidates know that they need to pump money into. So for example, in the 2020 Democratic caucus in Iowa, candidates spent $50 million on ads, just the Democratic candidates, because when you have an incumbent president, you don't have the same level of caucusing. It's assumed they're the nominee. You don't go through the same process. So the Democrats, of course, were trying to come up with a candidate to run against the incumbent president. And they spent $50 million doing that. By the way, Joe Biden did not win the Iowa caucus. Pete Buttigieg did.

So the Iowa caucus is not even super great at predicting who will become the president. Obama did win. And also Jimmy Carter famously won the Iowa caucus. And that was how he really gained enough momentum to ascend to the presidency. You know what I mean? But because Jimmy Carter had that kind of folksy style of like, I am a peanut farmer. I can relate to you. That played very well in Iowa. And what appeals to Iowa voters is different than what appeals to a Los Angeles voter. Yeah. Right. So they now protect it because it is seen as a tradition. It allows candidates with early momentum to continue the race. And by the way, sometimes the Iowa caucuses are happening in January or February and the election is in November.

Wow. And so by the time some later states get around to their primary election in like August, almost all the candidates have dropped out. That was us in Connecticut. That was us. There was one actual candidate left by the time it got to our primary. You have a late primary? Yeah. We were August this last year. Yeah. So some people who have late primaries feel like I don't even get a choice. Where is my choice? Why does Iowa get all the choices and I get none of the choices? In the Republican caucus in Iowa, it's all just secret ballot. There is no like standby Severus Snape and then like, okay, round two, walk around and convince people. Here you go. It's definitely a square dance in your head.

Yes, that's right. It absolutely is. Now it's time to move around the room. That's right. Get people about for sharing. for sharing here's my thought to you and like i would love to hear you sit like talk about this to what extent do you feel like the secret ballot is actually crucial to democracy like to what extent do you feel like peer pressure especially in a community that is prioritizing gathering and neighbors and doing life together and this is why we love our caucus or caucusing whatever um to what extent do you

feel like people are not able to vote their mind because they're going to have to see their neighbor at church or whatever. And, you know, just sort of like that high school mentality of you have to come sit at my table. It's such an interesting question. And if you go back to the beginning of the United States, voting was a very social activity and they used caucusing from the very beginning. There were no secret ballots. A lot of voting was done at taverns and it was a very, very public, um, yeah, I was a raucous caucus. And there was a lot of drinking and the candidate would stand outside and be like, can I buy you a drink? Are you kidding?

That would be like them asking for their vote. And then people would go inside and be like, who's voting for Bob? You know what I mean? And people would be like, I am. And they would lift up their glass of literally. So that is how voting started in the United States. Obviously, were they excluding all people of color and all women? Of course, they absolutely were. And were they excluding people who did not have any financial wealth? Yes. So who could vote at the beginning was very different. And so have we evolved significantly as a democracy in which we would hope to have a different set of values than we began with in many cases. Yeah.

I think that's also fair to say that just because we started something one way does not mean that that is how we should continue. Yeah. I do see what you're saying that the secret ballot is, it's an important thing that we hold sacrosanct and yet a few states still cling to the square dance caucus. The raucous caucus. I love this quote too, the head of the Iowa Democratic Party. He said, the real reason we're first in the nation now is because of what we do. We take this real seriously. And they go on to say that, you know, we ask really good questions. We ask follow-up questions. We look a candidate in the eye. Like I'm looking at you right now, they're saying this to an interviewer. It's real. It's one-on-one vetting of candidates, we ask, are you for real? Not a TV spot, but what's in your heart? And that's how Iowa views themselves. They view themselves as being these great judges of

character, great judges of candidates. And, you know, one of the other criticisms of allowing Iowa to go first is that they're not representative of the country as a whole. I was 90% white and the caucus system does by its very nature tend to be a little bit more exclusive. It tends to prioritize people who can take the time off of work or who can find childcare or who are literally willing to stand in a stranger's home for a couple of hours, moving to different corners of the room. Not everybody, like a lot of introverts, like that would be their worst nightmare. Like now walk around and talk to people. No, you and I would be in Snape's corner. That's right. Don't talk to me.

We're wearing a black cloak. That's right. You can understand too, how the system itself does attract a certain type of person to it that maybe is not the most representative. And that is one of the reasons Nevada was like, why are we letting New Hampshire and Iowa choose our candidates for us when Nevada is a much more diverse state? It has liberal sides of it. It has very conservative sides of it. It has racial diversity. It has a much broader cross-section of Americans in Nevada than live in Iowa. Again, no shade to Iowa. It is what it is, but it is also just true that it is 90% white and certain income levels. All of this goes back to the conversation we were just having earlier today on an Instagram

live about this desire to be known, like an even deeper thread than even the electoral college and which state is best to represent or which system is best to represent is this desire to be seen, this desire to matter. What you said at the top of the episode, which is they're not the first because they're most important. They're most important because they're first, right? It's like, let me do something that says I'm not a flyover state. Let me quote some country songs right now. Really, truly, like, which I love country. Any one of these arguments, you know, Rhode Island, same thing. Iowa, same thing. West Virginia, Connecticut. Any of us have this of, do I matter in this bigger picture that is this government? Such a good point. We all want to feel like we matter. We all want to feel like we matter to our leaders. We all want to feel like we matter to each other.

And these are all just part of the larger conversations. But I really think it is so interesting that we have Iowa musical chairs because, essentially, because of the assassinations early in 1968. Because Bobby Kennedy and Martin Luther King were assassinated, you can trace a direct line from that to the current Iowa caucus system. It's crazy. Well, you know what's interesting too, though? What's a really interesting point, and I think people listening can maybe feel this, what we've also underscored is in times of great unrest and just seeing horrific things we never could have imagined, the human heart craves a return to community. we never could have imagined, the human heart craves a return to community. We crave a return to being with our people, being rooted where we are, and mattering and being seen. And I think

that's really interesting too, that we see something so local and so participation-based and so community-based. And so this is who we are as people, have a direct line to times that we're so divisive. That's interesting. It really is. In January or February of 2024, which is literally right around the corner. Yeah. That meme. 2022. Yes. Now everybody who's listening to this is going to have hopefully a better understanding of how it works and why they are the way they are. And they're just fascinating to watch. They are literally in a gym walking around. And I came from a small town, so I'm picturing little Tootsie Rolls just being thrown out like crazy. Come stand by me. I have a giant bowl of Reese's peanut butter cups. That's right. So much better than their stupid Tootsie Rolls

over there. So tell everybody about your new book that is coming out early next year. Yeah. Dirt, like I mentioned at the top of the episode, is a love letter to the girl in the trailer for any of us who grew up with a story where we didn't have a lot. And this book, launching April 5th, it's called Slow Growth Equals Strong Roots, which is also the subtitle of my podcast, The Mary Moran Show, which Sharon, you've been on, everybody should come listen to that episode, is a love letter to the girl after the trailer. This woman I lovingly refer to as the most put together woman in the room. This woman who would feel like before she walked into an

Iowa gymnasium, she would have to have the right outfit and not a hair out of place. And that to even be acceptable to have a voice in that room, she would have to become something else. It's a journey of me trying to give up gold stars and highlight reels to try to feel like I'm worthy because that trailer left a hole in my heart that said, you're only as small as you started so they kind of go together slow growth equals strong roots coming out of the dirt i love it i'm excited to read it yes i will definitely get you a copy yes and when will it be available for pre-order you know it's actually up there right now we have not even like officially shown the cover first time i'm saying the title out loud you are getting the scoop exclusive very exciting but if you go on amazon and search for mary morant's both of them will

come up and so it's technically available right now i'm definitely getting off of this podcast i will pre-order a copy oh yay yay yes thank you so much mary i always love chatting with you yeah you too and just real quick um thebookdirt.com, if you check that out, you can link from there to the podcast where you can check out Sharon's episode, grab a free chapter of that book. If you want, you can click over to Instagram from there at Mary Moran. Send me a DM if you listen to this crazy episode where I'm learning so much stuff. Your podcast is absolutely a delight. I love the sound of your voice, by the way.

I always say my friends are like, if the writing thing doesn't work out, you can get a job reading nursery rhymes. You do have a very soothing voice. You really do. Thank you. I love it. You're the best. Thank you.

Thank you so much for listening to the Sharon Says So podcast. I am truly grateful for you. And I'm wondering if you could do me a quick favor. Would you be willing to follow or subscribe to this podcast or maybe leave me a rating or a review? Or if you're feeling extra generous, would you share this episode on your Instagram stories or with a friend? All of those things help podcasters out so much.

I cannot wait to have another mind-blown moment with you next episode. Thanks again for listening to the Sharon Says So podcast.