Here's Where It Gets Interesting - Live Life in Crescendo with Cynthia Covey Haller

Episode Date: November 16, 2022

On this episode of Here’s Where It Gets Interesting, Sharon speaks with author Cynthia Covey Haller. Cynthia shares the mantra that her late father, Steven R. Covey, the author of The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People, aspired to during the last decade of his life, and that was to live life in crescendo. Cynthia expands on this concept, defining it as living life with the goal to keep learning, expanding, and growing with the knowledge that your most important work is always ahead of you. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Dairy Farmers of Ontario. From our families to your table. Everybody milk. Visit milk.org to learn more. Hey friends, welcome. Today's conversation was so moving. I had to take a break because I was tearing up and my voice was cracking. Okay. And it's moving in a good way. It's not moving in a sad way of like 25 puppies got killed. It's moving in a good way. I think you need to stick around and listen to this conversation with author Cynthia Covey-Holler and her book, Live Life in Crescendo.

Let's dive in. I'm Sharon McBann. Here's where it gets interesting. Yeah. Here's where it gets interesting. I am really excited to welcome Cynthia Covey-Holler to the show today. Thank you so much for being here. Thank you, Sharon. I'm so happy to be on your show. Tell everybody a little bit about the book that you have co-authored with your dad who passed away about 10 years ago. Tell us a little bit more about this book and what it's been like to work on it. Well, it's been an awesome experience, a long journey, like I said, over 10 years. Actually, it was clear back in 2008 when I was

talking to my dad about the different books that he was, things that he was involved in. And he told me about his mission statement, his personal mission statement the last 10 years of his life, which was this idea of live life in crescendo. And I loved that and really resonated with it. So what does it mean to live life in crescendo? What does that mean? Okay. Are you musical at all, Sharon? Yes. I know what a musical crescendo is. Yes. Okay.

Yes. And I'm not musical. Most of our family isn't. My mom had a beautiful singing voice, but my dad didn't at all. But he chose crescendo because of the sign and what it means, the musical symbol. And that is a crescendo, as you know, when you go to a concert or something, it builds in intensity and power and strength and grandeur. And to hear a crescendo is amazing.

It keeps going. It keeps expanding. And the opposite is diminuendo, which is it starts strong maybe and then it slows down in energy and power and strength, and eventually stops and comes to an end. And so he's talking about adopting the crescendo mentality, which is like kind of a pair of glasses that you put on, a paradigm that you see everything through, meaning that in your life, keep seeing your life living in crescendo, meaning you keep learning, keep growing. You may have to redefine yourself.

You may have to start over. You may have had a lot of challenges that set you back. But believe, and the second part of the book is that your most important work is always ahead of you. That idea to me was so inspiring that I did want to be involved in this project but he he believed that strongly that anyone can get through the ups and downs of life if they believe in living in crescendo despite what's happened to them in the past I hear from people regularly maybe you do too where, where they feel like, listen, I'm 37. It is too late to go to medical school.

I'm 42 and I've always wanted to have kids and is it too late for me? Or I've even heard from people who are like, I'm 27. I feel like it's too late to start college or whatever it is. So often people feel like they's too late to start college or whatever it is. So often people feel like they are too late. And I wondered if you could address that. In this book, we go through four different stages and ages kind of life. And we actually begin what's called the midlife stage. And it is very common for people to think to themselves, okay, I'm 50 and I'm not where I thought I would

be. I thought I'd be more financially secure. I thought my business would be doing well. I didn't think I'd be divorced. I didn't think all these things would happen when I'm in my midlife stage. And so we take two perspectives during this stage. This is just an example of one of the four stages. But the first perspective is you may be more successful than you realize. We are kind of redefining success. Society has success as being secondary greatness, what my father called secondary greatness, which is fame and prominence and money and possessions and being well-known, contributing a lot that way. But he called primary greatness being successful in your most important roles in life.

And he always would ask people, identify what are your most important roles truly in life, things that will matter to you on your deathbed. You're not going to, you know, all of us have to make a living and have a career, but on the deathbed literature does not show people are consumed with talking about their careers and what they accomplished, but they do care about their role as a father or mother, as a community volunteer, as someone that contributed lives around them. So you may be more successful. Like we look at George Bailey, you know, I used the example of a wonderful life.

It's a failure. He hadn't traveled like he wanted. He hadn't done the things he wanted to do. And so when he was said, I don't even want to be here. I wish I weren't bored. The angel takes him out and says, okay, you were never there. And then after he sees what Pottersville was like, he says, one man's life touches another.

You had a wonderful life. And to have you taken out changed the whole town, the whole city. So he was, his brother finally told him at the end and says to the most successful man in town, the biggest man in town. So he really did have true success, but didn't recognize it

because it wasn't according to society's standards. But for example, if the second perspective is, maybe you are in a dead end job, maybe you're not where you need to be. You have relationships that need to be mended with your family, with your children, or different things you're involved in. Take control. Use what my father called R&I, resourcefulness and initiative, and make it happen. Reinvent yourself. It's always, I feel, encouraging to hear stories of people who have had to begin again. And even though you have compassion for somebody who was forced out of their company, lost their job, you know, life circumstances forced them to start over.

There is something that I always find fascinating and encouraging about seeing people who did begin again and who feel that sense of pride and ownership in their hard work, in their accomplishments. and ownership in their hard work, in their accomplishments. And I also love the idea of defining actually what are my most important roles. Right. That's a thing that so many people, I think, struggle to do. Your most important roles that really mean the world to you. My father always talked about setting your goals according to your roles.

My father always taught you can't control what happens to you. My father always talked about setting your goals according to your roles. My father always taught you can't control what happens to you, but you can control your response to them. You know, say that somebody gets cancer or they go through a divorce, their parent dies, something, you know, we all know of stories of really huge setbacks and challenges. The question and the challenge in this book is, are you going to live in diminuendo or are you going to live in crescendo and do what it takes to look ahead, to work hard and pull out of it? And so one of my favorite stories in the book is about a man named Anthony Ray Hinton, who was in Alabama. He was in his low 30s, and he was falsely accused of killing two people.

He was basically framed for this murder, two murders in Alabama, convicted and sent to death row. So he is just devastated. He can't believe this has happened to him. I'm talking about a midlife and a life-changing situation all at the same time. He was a good person and believed that the legal system would sort this out. And he was convicted falsely. So he's on death row and he comes into the prison cell so discouraged and despondent. He throws his Bible under his bed and determines, I'm done. That's it. If they think I'm guilty, I know I'm not, but I'm not going to give anything to anyone again. He shuts down for three years. He didn't speak to one person, his fellow death row mates, to the guards, to anyone besides his family and friends that visited once a month

or once a week. And he was just miserable, but determined, I'm going to see this through, living in diminuendo, basically. So one night, he hears a fellow cellmate crying so desperately at two in the morning, begging someone to help him with his pain. And it awakens in Ray some compassion. And he realizes all of a sudden, you know what, I don't have a choice if I'm here on death row, but I do have some choices. I have a choice to be compassionate or full of hate and despair. I have a choice to hang on and I can definitely show love to this person and help him right now. So he breaks his three years of silence, comforts this man who just found out his mother had passed away. And he's so devastated. He spends

the night talking to a total stranger, getting him talking and laughing about his mother and memories of her. And from that point on determines, I'm going to be a light. I have a choice to be compassionate and to show my character and I will one day be proven innocent. And so he, for the next 27 years, literally, he is that beacon of light to his fellow cellmates, as well as the guards. He gets the warden to approve a book club that he's able to hold, get certain privileges to help these prisoners transport themselves out of prison. And he also attracts the attention of Bryan Stevenson, who, I don't know

if you've read the book, Just Mercy, you've seen the movie, a great equal justice initiative advocate. And ultimately, he pleads his case before the Supreme Court of the United States. And he is exonerated of all charges after nearly 30 years. So how does he react now about he's been living in diminuendo. He changed it around. He's expanded his circle of influence. He lives in crescendo to those people around him. And he comes out of jail and he says to his family and friends, the sun does shine. And that became the title of a New York bestselling book that he wrote about his journey in prison four years later. that he wrote about his journey in prison four years later. Ray Hinton today is an advocate,

an author, a speaker. He works with Bryan Stevenson. His life in diminuendo has exploded in crescendo now. He is known all across the United States and the world, and he helps defend other people that are justly convicted. So truly, Sharon, his most important work was still ahead of him. I love that story. And I love Brian Stevenson's work. We just read Just Mercy and Michael Clevin. One of the things that Brian Stevenson shared with us, which is, of course, he works with some of the people who have some of the most difficult of life circumstances, as you mentioned, where you are on death row for something. And it would actually be absolutely understandable to feel hopeless, to feel a sense of despair, to feel like there's no point. And so somebody asked him in our meeting, how do you stay hopeful? Seeing everything you do, hearing all of these terrible cases,

seeing people who are falsely accused of crimes, how do you stay hopeful? And one of the things that he said was that hope is not a feeling of optimism. It's not a like, I'm really hopeful that the Jazz are going to win the basketball championship. Hope is an orientation of the spirit. And I just loved that. I just felt like that was such a great way to think about something like hope, which is required to be able to live life in crescendo, right? Yes, that's amazing. He also said,

we're all better than the worst thing we've ever done. And so people need second chances. We all have made mistakes. In his case, he was just, Ray was innocent, but he's meeting with people, some have made some mistakes and other people are, I mean, the things, the choices now are how are they going to respond? And he is a great, great person. And I admire him so much. A&W is now serving Pret Organic Coffee and you can get a $1 small coffee, a $2 small latte, or like me, a $1 small coffee and a $2 small latte. Available now until November 24th in Ontario only.

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Terms and conditions for our different programs and policies apply. Details at Fizz, you always get more for your money. Terms and conditions for our different programs and policies apply. Details at Fizz.ca. What advice would you have for somebody who feels like their best time is behind them or they're currently could currently get no better than where they are now? Not that their life is perfect, but that they feel like I'm at the pinnacle of my career. I'm the CEO, or I'm as famous as I'll ever be, or I probably will never win American Idol or, you know, whatever it is. What advice would you have for somebody who feels like the opposite, that their life is not in crescendo. Their life is diminishing. You know, Sharon, that is another section of the book is you've hit on pinnacle of success. There are people that have reached the top. Look at a Jimmy Carter, for example. I mean,

he's the president of the United States, but in the pinnacle of success, you think, but he didn't get reelectelected and so he goes back to Plains Georgia what's he going to do do what most presidents do and put up a library and give expensive speeches what is he going to do he felt like I still have important things to contribute truly his most important work was ahead of him even higher than being the president of the United States because he will not go down in history as being one of our best presidents. But his post-presidency is so exemplary. It's incredible. He came back and within a year of losing the presidency, started the Carter Center. And he is the face, he and Rosalind, of Habitat for Humanity. They've built hundreds, thousands of homes across the world. In his 90s,

he's still active at looking for ways to contribute. John Wooden's another example, one of the greatest basketball coaches of all time. Yet the last third of his life was spent doing what he thought was more important, mentoring, helping people see their potential, and being a leader. My father describes leadership as communicating worth and potential so clearly that they are inspired to see it in themselves. So think of a great person that is a leader of, like you say, a CEO or someone very successful. What else can, after they're done with that, would it be best for them to sit on the beach and retire and keep all that wisdom, that knowledge, the connections, the experience to themselves and just let it go?

Or what is ahead for that person? It may not be another CEO job, but I'm thinking of a person that just retired. Mike Mason was 63. I just learned about this. It's a great story of Pinnacle of Success. He was the captain of the Marines. He was the number four man in the FBI. He was up there giving speeches and the presidents would go to him and ask questions about this.

He retired and became a CEO of a Fortune 100 company. And then he went to his rocking chair. He said he was they they retired him. He was done. And he thought, you know what? I still have a mind. I still have things to contribute. And so what did he do? He looked around him in Virginia and saw that Chesterfield had 125 less bus drivers than they did before the pandemic. He applied to be a bus driver.

And when the people up above saw his application and saw how overqualified he was, being a big man in the FBI, they called him and said, are you sure you're really applying for this? You know what we pay and you're applying to be a bus driver? And he said, yes, there are no unimportant jobs. We've got to get past that. There are unimportant jobs. I am continuing to progress in my career. What could be more than supporting the education of students in our community. And so he proudly drives a bus feeling like I've still, this is important work that's still ahead of me. Maybe the most important I've done. I love that. The idea that I'm continuing to progress in my career.

I just love that. Well, there's, who knows when you've accomplished your greatest contributions. And in this book, service is a main theme throughout Crescendo. The idea that the meaning of life is to find your gift and the purpose of life is to give it away. That's by Pablo Picasso, surprisingly. And so we talk about, you know, look around in your circle of influence and see who you can affect, who you can touch, see a need. And despite what you've been through, despite the past, don't keep looking in the rear

of your mirror, past failures, or even past successes. But think to yourself, how can I bless and serve my community with what the talents and the skills and the abilities that I have. What a great. Totally. I love what you said too about Jimmy Carter, because in the 1980 election, he didn't just lose a little bit, Cynthia. He lost a lot. As my daughter would say, he lost a lot of it. Not just a little bit. He lost a lot of it. I think the electoral college vote was like 489 to 49 in favor of Reagan. Like it was a trouncing, but it's absolutely true that today Jimmy Carter is regarded as one of the best former presidents. He is widely admired for his incredible contribution to the country and to democracy via the Carter Center. His contribution to democracy is probably

greater now than it was when he was president. He was faced with a lot of really bad circumstances when he was president, terrible economy, Iranian hostage crisis, lots of world events that were heaped upon him, and he was not the most successful at handling them. But then he took what he learned and took his desire for service and had an even better post-presidency. Like the presidency was lower on his contribution scale than what he did later. And most people would view the opposite. The presidency as being your highest contribution. Right.

Such a great example that he also did not just, he definitely got beaten so badly, but he did not stay down. That's right. His most important role was a humanitarian, was, like you said, contributing to progress democracy and to help people get a decent home for the first time in their lives. Those were his most important roles. So the humility of the man to take that great, horrible loss, which would be so embarrassing. Yes. To think, okay, I'm done.

You know, I'm going to end my, this, I had a horrible political career and it's finished. But he literally lived in crescendo believing, you know, I have important work to accomplish and had the humility to stand back up, accomplish way more than his presidency ever did. He's our greatest post-president. I admire that. The last section I talk about is the second half of life. You know, my dad always said, it's a false dichotomy to say your only choices are keep working or retire. He said the third alternative is make a contribution.

We do it both of those. One man, it shows a picture in the newspaper, just a man that nobody would know, a picture of all these bicycles lined up next to the church where the funeral was being held. And the story behind it is that this man was known as the bike man in town. He's in his 70s and into his 80s. And any kid that needed a bike, he felt like every kid should have one. So he would find a bike. He would fix one up. He would somehow get every kid in town who needed a bike. And so what a tribute to this man's life, all these children who rode to the funeral and put their bikes against the wall and went in to honor the man

known as the bike man who didn't have a lot of money, didn't have fame, but he had in his mind, I want to do something for my community and for kids. And I want to give every kid a bike. I love that. And that was a skill he had. And I don't, I want to give every kid a bike. I love that. And he, that was a skill he had and I don't know how to fix bikes. Um, but I'm glad he does. You know what I mean? And so I think people sometimes get bogged down in this idea that like, I'm not famous. I'm not rich. I'm not Melinda Gates. I can't give $80 million to the Girl Scouts. I, I don't have a million followers. I'm not beautiful in the way that I think that I should be. I'm not the right weight. I'm too old. They have a lot of reasons

that they tell themselves why they can never be as successful or have the greater contribution that some other people can have. But I think we often overlook the importance of using the skills and talents and gifts that we do have in a way that brings meaning, not just to the community, but brings meaning to our own lives. It was meaningful to that man to repair bikes and give them away. It's not, you know, giving things changes, not just the recipient, but it changes the giver for the better. It develops our own character. the recipient, but it changes the giver for the better. It develops our own character. So we do these things, not just because it's a nice thing to do to give kids bikes, but because it's good for us to do those things. That's exactly, that's the happy feeling that you can't buy that when you do something for someone else, especially someone that can't

repay you. I'm thinking of a homeless advocate that was speaking to a group that said, was saying, you know, make a contribution, do what you can. And a lady in her 80s raised her hand and said, you know, you say that, but how can I make a difference? I am on a limited income. I'm in a facility. I'm in my 80s. I don't have great skills. What can I do? And this advocate said, could you donate one can of soup a week? And she said, yes, I could do that. He said, imagine a single mother opening that can at night and feeding two or three hungry kids, and they're going to bed being fed. That's something that makes a difference to that family. And that woman thought,

well, yeah, I can do that and contributed the next couple of years, hundreds of meals to people who were going to bed hungry. So you have to do something revolutionary, cross the street and help your neighbor whose yard is yellowed and is littered with trash, but they can't get out because they're handicapped or they're older. I have a friend that had breast cancer and she finds other people that are diagnosed with breast cancer, goes to their house, knocks on the door, says, can I talk to you? I had it too. I'm standing here. I'm alive. You can beat this. Can I come in and talk to you about what to expect? And gives them hope in that you can make it too.

We all have things in the community where you see a need, a food drive or a clothes drive or an overcrowded school. It doesn't have to be extraordinary to make an extraordinary difference. Just start. I love that. And that also contributes to exactly what you're saying

about living your life in crescendo, that our greatest work is ahead of us. And I love that story of the man who's very high up in the FBI who says, I'm continuing to progress in my career. Such a fantastic way to look at it, that there are no unimportant jobs. Transporting children to school is a tremendously important job, tremendously important job, because the hundreds and hundreds of children that you will directly impact on a yearly basis, thousands of children over a few years, that's tremendously important. The ripples of that, you cannot even measure what it means to assist in the education of thousands of children. I agree.

What an example of true leadership and caring about most important roles rather than, you know, society would say, well, that's not successful. He's a bus driver. He makes $40,000 a year or whatever, which, by the way, he donated to charity. He donates his whole salary. But to him, the person that interviewed him said, you're saying that this is as important as what you did in the FBI? And he said, absolutely. That's what he said. I am continuing to progress and to go ahead in my career. I'm helping with

the educating of the children in our community. What could be more important? I think that when you're faced with life-challenging problems or setbacks, if you're stuck in a rut, a lot of us get stagnant for periods of time. And that's kind of common. But sometimes society says, well, you're a victim. Your parents did it to you. Your boss did it to you. You're not in a good situation. You've never had money. You don't have any influence.

You know, you're not in a good situation. You've never had money. You don't have any influence. You know, there's plenty of people around that have shown that if you take charge, take responsibility, use your R&I, resourcefulness initiative, and make it happen, amazing things can happen. Nelson Mandela, the second half of life we're talking about, he gets out of prison in Robben Island in South Africa at 71 years old. And you'd think to yourself, oh my gosh, it's awful. His whole life is gone.

But yet four years later, he is dismantling apartheid as the president of South Africa, first black president ever, with William de Klerk, who was humble enough to be his vice president. He was the president when he was released. Now he's Mandela's vice president. And he goes on to have a ripple effect across the world. And who would have thought his most important work was done when he was in prison? Who knew what lay ahead? And so that's my idea.

Your most important work is always ahead. It may not be something like what Mandela has done, but it may be just helping people in your community one person at a time and what a contribution to make. I love that. All right. I think this, you have so many amazing stories and ideas and a wonderful mindset shift away from this idea of, you know, reach the top. And, you know, because what happens when you reach the top, nobody thinks you live on top of the mountain, right? You don't live there. And so I love this idea that it does not have to just be this downward snowball into obscurity that our greatest, highest contributions are ahead of us

if we choose to adopt that mindset and we choose to live life in crescendo. I love that. That's the key, Sharon, is to make it a mindset when we're faced with challenges and ups and downs, which we'll all have. And if you haven't had them yet, you haven't lived long enough. It will come to everyone. At the end of the book, I do write about our family's own personal journey, trying to live and crescendo ourselves with three main challenges that our family had and experienced. You know, no one is exempt. We all have to decide, how am I going to respond to this life-changing setback? And is it going to define me?

Is it going to destroy me? Or is it going to strengthen me? And those choices. I love that. Yes, so true. If you haven't experienced any challenges, you haven't lived long enough yet. Well, your book Live Life in Crescendo has a lot of lovely, lovely, important wisdom to share. Thank you so much for being here today. I'm really grateful for your time. I love talking with you, Sharon. I could talk forever. You're wonderful to have a conversation with. Thanks so much for having me on.

Oh, it's truly my pleasure. Thank you. Thank you so much for listening to Here's Where It Gets Interesting. And I'm wondering if you could do me a quick favor. If you enjoyed this episode, would you consider leaving us a rating or a review or sharing a link to it on your social media?

All of those things help podcasters out so much. Here's Where It Gets Interesting is written and researched by executive producer Heather Jackson. Our audio engineer is Jenny Snyder, and it's hosted by me, Sharon McMahon. See you again soon.