Here's Where It Gets Interesting - Stalin: Man of Steel, Episode 6

Episode Date: August 12, 2024

Joseph Stalin had his young daughter fooled. Svetlana had no idea what he was doing to people outside the palace walls, and to her, he was a doting father. But all that changed when she finally learned the truth about what happened to her mother.  Credits: Host and Executive Producer: Sharon McMahon Supervising Producer: Melanie Buck Parks Audio Producer: Craig Thompson Writers/researchers: Mandy Reid, Amy Watkin, Kari Anton, Sharon McMahon, Melanie Buck Parks Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Interior Chinatown is an all-new series based on the best-selling novel by Charles Yu about a struggling Asian actor who gets a bigger part than he expected when he witnesses a crime in Chinatown. Streaming November 19th only on Disney+. This episode is brought to you by Dyson OnTrack. Dyson OnTrack headphones offer best-in-class noise cancellation and an enhanced sound range, making them perfect for enjoying music and podcasts get up to 55 hours of listening with active noise cancelling enabled soft microfiber

cushions engineered for comfort and a range of colors and finishes dyson on track headphones remastered buy from dyson canada.ca with anc on performance may vary based on environmental conditions and usage accessories Accessories sold separately. Here's where it gets interesting is now available ad-free. Head to SharonMcMahon.com slash ad-free to subscribe today. Joseph Stalin's only daughter, Svetlana, was a boisterous child who often had scratches on her legs from climbing and clambering around the 70 acres, inside the Kremlin walls, through rose bushes, up into trees, and even on top of the Tsar Cannon, one of the largest in the world. She studied garter snakes, chased hedgehogs, and watched hawks fly, her mouth open

in wonder. She especially loved the tame fox that roamed around the Kremlin gardens. For Svetlana's sixth birthday party in 1932, the Kremlin rooms were full of children singing and dancing. The mothers and nannies tried to keep control of them as Stalin himself watched from a doorway. Svetlana remembered that, quote, once in a while, he enjoyed the sounds of children playing. Little Svetlana, who could read and write both Russian and German by then, recited a German poem. Then everyone was served tea and cakes. As Svetlana and her friends enjoyed their treats, they had no idea that others in the Soviet Union were starving. No idea that her own father was responsible. But of course, there were many secrets in Stalin's Russia.

Little Svetlana remembered her mother, Nadia, drawing a small square over her heart with her finger and saying to her young daughter, this is where you must bury your secrets. In a government full of backstabbing and a household that was equally volatile, Nadia kept her own secrets close. I'm Sharon McMahon, and here's where it gets interesting. When she was a child, Svetlana loved her father, Joseph Stalin, dearly, and she was clearly his favorite. When Svetlana was about five years old, she saw a new, ornately embroidered tablecloth on the dining room table. It had such lovely round designs that she couldn't resist cutting one out. Her mother was furious and slapped her, shocking them both.

When Stalin heard Svetlana's cry of surprise and hurt, he ran to hold her and comfort her. She comforted her father at times, too. Whenever Nadia and Stalin fought, which was more and more frequently throughout Svetlana's childhood, Svetlana would run to Stalin and wrap her little arms around one of his boots. It was the only thing that calmed him down. It's hard to believe that the same Stalin who kissed and hugged his daughter frequently was also massacring millions in order to achieve his political goals. But little Svetlana did not yet know that her dad was a monster.

Svetlana was born when her mother, Nadia, was 25 years old. At this very young age, she had her stepson, Yakov, who was 19 years old, two five-year-old boys, her son Vasily, and her adopted son, who was the child of a murdered Stalin comrade, and now baby Svetlana. In 1928, when Svetlana was two years old, Nadia started school at the Industrial Academy to study synthetic fibers, a new type of chemistry. The Industrial Academy was set up by Bolsheviks after the revolution. Nadia juggled school and time with her husband, with party meetings and keeping an eye on her children. She expressed her devotion to them by hiring tutors to make sure they were educated. Nadia was independent and headstrong. Stalin was moody.

So a calm, everyday conversation about something as bland as the weather could suddenly turn into an argument if his temper flared. Nadia didn't always want to keep her criticism of her husband to herself, so she stuck to small protests, like wearing Chanel perfume, despite or maybe because of Stalin's disapproval, or clucking in disgust when Stalin dipped his finger into his wine and let his children taste it. He'd turn them into alcoholics, she'd say. And yet there was a line, and she learned not to cross it. When Vasili was a baby, Stalin thought it was hilarious to take a big draw on a pipe, fill his mouth with smoke, then pick up the baby and blow the smoke into his mouth. Tiny Vasily would cry and choke while Stalin laughed and shouted, it's good for him, it makes him strong. And Nadia was forced to just watch.

Nadia couldn't stop Stalin from mistreating their children any more than she could stop him from murdering Russians. Stalin's politically motivated violence had seemed necessary at first, but quickly became distasteful to her. As the years passed and the bloodshed and suffering only escalated, Nadia began to understand how ruthless and dangerous her husband really was. But even Stalin's wife couldn't speak against him publicly. Nadia kept quiet to protect herself and the children because no one knew what might set Stalin off or how cruel his punishments might be. Nadia felt that her role in their marriage had been reduced to running Stalin's errands. She delivered documents and books to Stalin in his office every time he demanded one.

Her sister called her a long-suffering martyr. And Nadia resented this role in her husband's life. And so it went throughout their marriage. Moments of genuine tenderness alternating with shouting matches. He'd scream at her, You're a schizophrenic! And she'd scream back, you're a paranoiac. No one knew which type of interaction they were going to get when Nadia and Stalin were together. And the household was tense, to say the least. Loyalty was Stalin's highest demand in all of his relationships, and at some point he decided that

Nadia was disloyal, even though there's nothing in her history indicating that she ever cheated on Stalin. Still, he flirted and slept with other women just to hurt her. She'd shout, you're a torturer, that's what you are. You torture your own son. You torture your wife. You've tortured the whole people till they can take no more. Nadia tried to leave Stalin the first time when Svetlana was only six months old. She bundled up the kids and their nanny and went to her parents' home in Leningrad. She said she was leaving him for good.

She didn't need him. She could do this on her own. You have to wonder how many memories of his own parents fighting were dredged up in Stalin's mind. He called Nadia and started begging, and she returned home. But the impulse to leave Stalin never fully left Nadia. Even little Svetlana was aware, later saying, Mama thought more and more frequently of leaving my father. A friend who'd known Nadia since childhood said, quote, In the presence of Joseph, she resembled a circus performer, barefoot walking over broken glass, with a smile for the audience and with a terrifying intensity in her eyes. This is what she was like in the presence of Joseph because she never knew what was coming next, what kind of explosion. By 1932, the marriage had grown so cold that even though she was frequently traveling to see doctors about her migraines and he was away for work or taking holidays by himself, Nadia did not write Stalin a single letter during that year.

Come November, the Stalin family turned its attention to national celebrations for the 15th anniversary of the October Revolution. for the 15th anniversary of the October Revolution. Fire eaters and men on stilts roamed about Red Square. Soldiers marched and thousands of people gathered to celebrate. Stalin spoke from an elevated platform, standing in front of a gigantic portrait of himself. And Svetlana recalled knowing then that her father was the most important person in the world. When they got home, Nadia called Svetlana to her and began a rambling lecture.

Don't drink wine. Mind your manners. Act like a lady. Don't cry. Don't complain. Don't confess your secrets to anyone. Do your duty and hide your true self. It was a lot to take in and an unusual way for Nadia to talk to her six-year-old daughter out of the blue. It was as if Nadia knew that she would never see Svetlana again. The next day, Nadia got ready for more anniversary parties. She usually followed the Bolshevik fashion standards by wearing very drab, modest clothes. But on that day, she twirled for her sister, excited about her new black dress with applique

red roses. She rejected the severe bun she usually wore, curling her hair instead and pulling it loosely back, adding a fresh red rose that she had ordered especially for the outfit. The Kremlin officials and their wives gathered for a dinner to celebrate the holiday. The men wore old-fashioned Bolshevik uniforms, belted tunics with high boots and pants tucked in. The women, like Nadia, wore their best dresses. At dinner, Stalin sat at the middle of the table. Nadia was seated across from him. Stalin rarely got drunk in public, but that night, he was letting loose and flirting with a friend's wife by tossing balls of bread at her.

Nadia sighed and got up to dance with another man, ignoring Stalin's bready flirtations entirely. They continued with their silent argument until Stalin gave a toast at dinner to the destruction of enemies of the state. Nadia did not raise her glass. A very public declaration that she did not support him, did not care about his politics. Maybe didn't even love him. Stalin shouted across the table, Hey you, why aren't you drinking? Have a drink. Nadia shouted back,

My name is not hey. And left the room calling over her shoulder, shut up, shut up. The room fell silent and the audience sat momentarily frozen. Stalin stared for a moment and then muttered, what a fool, and kept drinking. Nadia left the party, exiting out into the dark with her friend Paulina by her side. Paulina tried to reassure her that Stalin hadn't meant it. He was a drunk fool with a lot of stress, after all. She should just let it go. Paulina said Nadia was perfectly calm when she left her in the wee hours of the morning.

Nadia went to her room and shut the door. She cried thinking about the public humiliation of that evening, knowing that Stalin's paranoia and punishments would not end. Her hands shook, but her mind was made up. shook, but her mind was made up. She took out the little gun her brother had given her and shot herself in the heart. A housekeeper bringing a breakfast tray the next morning found Nadia dead on the floor of her bedroom in a pool of blood with the pistol still in her hand. The rose from her hair lay wilting on the floor just inside the door. The housekeeper ran to get the nanny to help her put Nadia on the bed. They were both too scared to wake Stalin. Some have claimed that Nadia left an angry note for

Stalin, but that he destroyed it right away. They called Nadia's godfather and another friend. When Stalin came out of his room for breakfast, the group of servants and Nadia's loved ones stood there, waiting. Someone said, Joseph, Nadia is no longer with us. Stalin made sure the newspapers reported that she died of acute appendicitis. That's what her children were told as well. Stalin was never interested in the truth, and he considered this truth particularly shameful. Stalin's general response to Nadia's death was profound self-pity. He said, quote,

The children have forgotten her after a few days, but I am left incapacitated for the rest of my life. Just like when his first wife died and Stalin threw himself into her grave, Stalin took what may have been genuine grief and made it all about himself. He said he didn't want to go on living either, and he was in such a state that they were afraid to leave him alone. Some people said he had sporadic fits of rage. He did not ask what more he could have done to help Nadia or how he had failed her, other than to say, quote, I had no time to take her to the cinema, as if that would have solved everything. Stalin only asked, why me? Why does this happen

to me? Why would she stab me in the back like this? The incident definitely made Stalin more paranoid, convinced that absolutely everyone would betray him. Nadia's body lay in state so that hundreds of thousands of Moscow's citizens could visit. She lay in an open coffin at the assembly hall at the official state mall in Red Square, which was mostly government offices and one department store. Lines of people were so long that others passing by, unaware of what was happening, thought the store was having a great sale or some kind of special giveaway. It won't surprise you to hear that there are several versions of the story of Stalin at his wife's funeral. In one version, Stalin sobbed and his 11-year-old son Vasily held his hand. year old son Vasily held his hand. Another story claims that Stalin stood at Nadia's coffin with tears streaming down his face and whispered, I didn't save her. But Svetlana remembered that

her father shoved the casket and said, she went away as an enemy. Nadia was buried at a cemetery in Moscow, which was where the Tsar's wives and families were traditionally buried. It wasn't long before six-year-old Svetlana couldn't remember her mother's face. But she remembered Nadia's Chanel perfume, the way it used to linger on Svetlana's pillow after her mother came in to kiss her goodnight. Now, the motherless little girl lay alone in her room, afraid to sleep without a light on, clutching her dolls that she dressed all in black. Svetlana treasured a photo of Nadia holding her when she was just about a year old. In the photograph, Nadia presses her face close to Svetlana's in the photo, her arms wrapped tightly around her baby's legs,

and she gazes into the camera lens. Svetlana carried the photo for years, as proof that her mother had loved her. Stalin systematically had Nadia's memory removed from their home. Svetlana came home from school more than once to find that things her mother had given her, everything from furniture to small figurines, were gone. Svetlana said Stalin spoke harshly of her mother for decades, blaming her and everyone else for her own death. But Svetlana still loved her father unconditionally. Well, she loved him unconditionally until 1942, when she was 16 years old, and read an article revealing how her mother died by suicide. It was the first she'd heard that Nadia had not died of appendicitis.

Svetlana said that after learning the truth that had been kept from her for 10 years, quote, something in me was destroyed. I was no longer able to obey the word and will of my father and defer to his opinions without question. But she did not confront him. For another year, Svetlana maintained at least a cordial relationship with her father Stalin, though she didn't see him much. Things really fell apart in 1943, when Svetlana fell in love for the first time with a man named Alexei Kapler, who was more than 20 years older than her. At 17, Svetlana was the same age that her mother had been when she married Stalin, and the age difference was about the same as the one

between her parents. One morning, when Svetlana was getting ready for school, Stalin stormed into her room and demanded to see all of Alexei's letters to her. She handed them over and he screamed at her, I know the whole story. He is a British spy. He's under arrest. Svetlana said, but I love him. Stalin, perhaps for the first time, slapped his daughter twice. Then he said the words she could never forget. Take a look at yourself. Who'd want you, you fool? Stalin sent Alexei to the Gulag for five years. Alexei was accused of anti-Soviet opinions and of spying for England, but everyone knew that his only crime was carrying on with the dictator's daughter. That was the first time Svetlana realized that her father could hold a person's fate in his hand, and that hand was frequently balled into a fist, crushing everyone, including his only daughter. She said that experience broke her, and she didn't see or speak to her father for several months. And when she finally did, their relationship would always be cold.

Stalin did not show mercy to other family members either. The brother of Stalin's first wife was executed as an enemy of the people, along with his family, because he was too liberal and cosmopolitan. Stalin saw him as a threat. Nadia's sister was married to a man named Stanislav, who was accused of being a spy and also executed. Nadia's brother, who forever felt guilty for giving her the gun she used to kill herself, died of a heart attack from the shock of so many loved ones dying. Svetlana soon went on to marry a Jewish man, and Stalin disapproved of the match because he was increasingly convinced that Jewish people were conspiring against the Soviet Union.

He tried to forbid the marriage, but eventually gave up, saying, to hell with you. Do as you like. Svetlana married, but with only the most basic ceremony and no party afterwards. Stalin gave the young couple money, but refused to be in the same room as his new son-in-law. The two men never met. By the time she was 21 years old, Svetlana was divorced with a toddler. She had named the boy Joseph and always insisted that the name was not a desperate attempt to get back in Stalin's good graces. Her father-in-law's name was also Joseph. She tried over the years to repair her relationship with Stalin, but things were always tense. Sometimes he would hang up on her when she called, slamming down the phone violently. When he did invite her into his

presence, she often didn't know what to say. If they talked about people and she mentioned the wrong one, he would become irate or paranoid. So she tried to talk to him only about plants or food, subjects that were unlikely to upset him. Svetlana went to college, became a writer and teacher, married again, and had a daughter. As a Fizz member, you can look forward to free data, big savings on plans, and having your unused data roll over to the following month. Every month. At Fizz, you always get more for your money. Terms and conditions for our different programs and policies apply. Details at Fizz.ca.

What do Ontario dairy farmers bring to the table? A million little things. But most of all, the passion and care that goes into producing the local, high-quality milk we all love and enjoy every day. With 3,200 dairy farming families across Ontario sharing our love for milk, there's love in every glass. Dairy Farmers of Ontario. From our families to your table, everybody milk. Visit milk.org to learn more. Visa and OpenTable are dishing up something new. Get access to primetime dining reservations by adding your Visa Infinite Privilege Card to your OpenTable account. From there, you'll unlock first-come, first-served spots at select top restaurants when booking through OpenTable.

Learn more at OpenTable.ca forward slash Visa Dining. By 1963, Svetlana was 37 and had been married and divorced three times. Her father had been dead for 10 years, and while that released his power over her, it did not end her symbolic importance to the Soviet Union. As a girl, she had been called the Princess of the Kremlin, and she was still a well-known name and face in her homeland. So what she did next was particularly shocking. At age 37, she finally met the love of her life in Moscow. She was in the hospital for a tonsillectomy, walking the hallways one day when she bumped into a man named Brajesh Singh, a communist politician from India who was being

treated for chronic lung disease. In an impulsively romantic decision, Singh moved in with Svetlana and her two children almost immediately, and they spent the last few years of Singh's terminal illness living happily out of the spotlight. They wanted to marry, but were denied permission from party leaders because Stalin's daughter could not marry a foreigner and a Hindu, even one who was a communist. Singh died peacefully in 1966, and Svetlana was given permission to bring his ashes back to India. She said goodbye to her children, now 21 and 17 years old, expecting to return to Moscow in about a month. The government sent Russian handlers along on her trip to make sure she came back. She was still Stalin's daughter, and all of her movements would be monitored wherever she went. Svetlana had recently written a memoir, which could only be published outside of Russia.

welcomed to India by Singh's family, that she started to dream about staying there long enough to get her memoir published. Party leaders thought otherwise. No, they would not allow her to extend her visa. And no, the Indian government would not antagonize Russia by helping her stay. Someone very quietly suggested so that Svetlana's Russian handlers wouldn't overhear, someone very quietly suggested so that Svetlana's Russian handlers wouldn't overhear, why don't you go to America, become a citizen, and then come back to live in India? On March 6, 1967, Svetlana snuck out of her room without her handlers noticing, taking only a small suitcase. As she walked towards the door, she saw the gifts she'd bought for her children, her son Joseph and her daughter Ekaterina. That was the only moment she faltered

and thought about just going back to Moscow, but she had bigger dreams now. Besides, her mother was dead, her father had been a monster, and her children were nearly grown. She had to go immediately, or she would lose her nerve. Under cover of darkness, in the late evening, Svetlana stepped into the street and hailed a cab to take her to the American embassy. On shaking legs, she walked up the wide embassy staircase. The Marine standing guard at the top explained that the embassy was closed. staircase. The Marine standing guard at the top explained that the embassy was closed, but when she showed him her passport and he saw her name, he immediately went to get someone to help her. She spent several weeks in Europe while American officials argued over whether granting her asylum would be too big a risk to U.S.-Soviet relations. But she came to America in April of 1967. Eventually, she settled in

Spring Green, Wisconsin, at the invitation of Ogevana Lloyd Wright, the widow of Frank Lloyd Wright. Ogevana introduced Svetlana to Wesley Peters, an apprentice to Frank Lloyd Wright, and she gave birth to another daughter. She did write several letters to the children she left behind in the Soviet Union, explaining her choice and asking for their forgiveness, but censors in the Soviet Union always stopped her letters from reaching them. It would be another 15 years before she was allowed to contact her older children. Svetlana wrote several books about her life and her father as though he was a puzzle that she couldn't quite put together. She was not the only one. Historians have all wrestled with what made Stalin who he was.

Many believe his actions were the result of mental illness, probably schizophrenia, early evidence being the paranoia that convinced him Nadia was disloyal and which seemed to increasingly infect his thinking. But almost no one said so during his lifetime. The one doctor who did mention that Stalin seemed to have advanced paranoia turned up dead, like a couple days after saying that. But others argue that Stalin couldn't have been as calculating and precise with his cruelty if he'd been suffering from a severe mental illness. The simpler explanation, they believe, is that the little boy called Soso, who'd loved fighting and learned hatred from his father, had simply grown into a man incapable of empathy. By the mid-1930s, a few years before Nadia's death and a few decades before Svetlana would defect, Stalin was convinced of two things about the Bolshevik leaders helping him run the country. One, they were mostly former revolutionaries who knew how to overthrow a government, not run one. And two, they would

never be as obedient to Stalin as he wanted them to be. By then, he saw anyone with ties to Lenin or the old Bolsheviks as a threat. And as you can imagine, he operated within a government that was set up by Bolsheviks and Lenin followers, so the threats were literally everywhere. He needed the current officials out, but he couldn't just force them to retire or he would soon have a big group of disgruntled revolutionaries potentially opposing his rule, men he feared could raise a revolution against him if they chose. The only solution, as Stalin saw it, was to get rid of the party members the same way he'd gotten rid of the kulaks. Murder. The Great Terror had begun. In a short while, his plan that would lead to mass annihilation, one designed to scrub the national memory clean from the past, but while it would become sweeping and monumental,

it started small and very close to Stalin, with just one murder. Sergei Kirov was a leader in the Communist Party and one of a small number of people Stalin considered a friend. Stalin once wrote a note inside a book he gave to Kirov that said, To my friend and favorite brother. That is the only time Stalin ever inscribed a gift to anyone that way. But of course, Stalin was paranoid. Just as he had decided out of the blue that Nadia had been disloyal to him, he worried Kirov might start to get power hungry himself. And Stalin's enemies, former members of the party, were fond of Kirov. Maybe they could convince him to get rid of Stalin. It didn't matter if it was all in his head. Stalin was certain

that he had to do something, even something drastic. On the 28th of November, 1934, Stalin invited Kirov over, and the two men spent a couple of hours together. Stalin encouraged Kirov to move closer to him on the political ladder and offered him the role of second-in-command. The following evening, Stalin escorted Kirov to the train station and kissed him goodbye. station and kissed him goodbye. On the 1st of December, Kirov went to work like he always did. He arrived at the Smolny Institute, the former headquarters of the 1917 revolution, and walked down the hallway towards his office. But today was different from most days. He didn't have his aid with him, and the usual security guards were nowhere in sight. It was too late when he noticed the man off in the distance, leaning against the wall. Then the man straightened up and began walking

toward Kirov. They were steps away from each other when Kirov saw the stranger take a gun out of his briefcase. Before Kirov could turn to run, and there really was no place to run to, the would-be assassin pulled the trigger. A secretary in a nearby office heard the shot, ran into the hallway, and knelt by Kirov's body, screaming for help. But it was too late. Kirov was dead. When Stalin was told the news, he acted shocked, vowing publicly to make Kirov's killer pay. But of course, it was Stalin himself who'd ordered this murder.

The shooter was a 30-year-old man named Leonid Nikolaev. He was a Communist Party member who had just been expelled from the party for refusing to take a minor post in a particular location. He spoke openly about wanting to get revenge on the Communist Party. situation and make sure no one learned that Stalin had orchestrated Kirov's murder. Stalin interrogated Nikolaev himself. When he asked the shooter where he'd gotten the gun he used on Kirov, Nikolaev pointed to Genrikh Yakoda, the deputy head of the secret police, and said, why are you asking me? Ask him. Stalin ordered the guards to take Nikolaev away and knew he had to get rid of him as soon as possible before he revealed more of the truth. Nikolaev was executed just 29 days after shooting Kirov. The meeting with Kirov, the one offering him a higher position, had been a ruse so that Stalin could deny involvement in his murder. Why would he kill a friend he was going to promote?

Despite Stalin promising to get to the bottom of this sudden and mysterious murder, it was a show, and people knew it. The public, in fact, sang a little song about the murder. The public, in fact, sang a little song about the murder. Stalin murdered comrade Kirov in his office corridor. Of course, Stalin didn't personally murder Kirov, but he was responsible. He had told Yagoda that Kirov needed to die. Yagoda's spies were everywhere, so he knew that Nikolaev was openly bad-mouthing the party in Stalin's government and vowing revenge. Yagoda's secret police lied to Nikolayev, telling him that Kirov was having an affair with Nikolayev's ex-wife,

and then they handed him a gun. The same day Kirov was killed, Stalin issued a decree to the police and the courts on how to deal with anyone considered to be a terrorist. All investigations had to be wrapped up within 10 days. No public prosecutors would be part of the trials. No appeals or petitions for pardon would be allowed, and death sentences must be carried out immediately. Suddenly, there were reports of active terrorist cells everywhere. Kirov's death was the beginning of a massive purge of individuals,

guilty only of being perceived as a threat to Stalin and his power. And it seemed that to Stalin, absolutely everyone was a threat. So many people were rounded up and brought to Moscow to confess their sins against Stalin that people stopped paying attention to how many quote-unquote terrorists were on trial on any given day. Trios of secret police roamed the country, rounding up anyone who seemed suspicious, and right there on the spot conducted a, air quotes, trial, finding them guilty and executing them. And they were no longer after just the Bolsheviks. Peasants, intellectuals, ethnic minorities, really anyone and everyone was now in danger. Hostile anti-Soviet elements needed to be eliminated.

These enemies could not be taught to be proper communists, but if they were gone, life for everyone else would finally be perfect. Everyone was at risk, and people were killed in batches. The Politburo issued quotas for how many people should die, and how many should be deported. Regions of the country would receive their orders, and the numbers were staggering. In one round, 72,950 people were ordered shot and 259,450 deported. Stalin became convinced that the Red Army was planning a coup, so he had 30,000

of them executed. He signed a decree saying that families were responsible for the crimes of the husband or father, so now children 12 and older could also be executed. Any trials that were held were only for show. Even Stalin's henchman, Yegoda, wasn't safe from the terror. Genrikh Yegoda was an original organizer of the Red Guard in Petrograd in 1917, who had risen to deputy head of the secret police. He recruited Nikolaev to murder Kirov. He oversaw the arrest and execution of many of his former compatriots and managed to keep his own anti-Stalinist views to himself for years. It couldn't have surprised Yagoda when he was accused of being a murderer, a secret czarist,

and a Nazi. The accusations had only gotten more elaborate over the years. Yagoda was also an amateur historian and collected things that he thought would be of historical value, including the bullets responsible for executing enemies of the state. They were easy for him to collect because he was so often the one firing the gun. He scratched the names of those who'd been executed into the blunted bullets that he collected from the scene of their executions. When Yagoda himself was executed after a brief trial in 1938, his replacement labeled the bullets that killed him. And the same was done for that man when he was later put on trial and executed. Eventually, all of the bullets were given to the State Archive of the October

Revolution to sit alongside the death lists of people Stalin's government executed. All of the Bolsheviks who participated in the 1917 revolutions with Stalin were killed in the Great Terror. All of them. To truly establish the number of people executed as a result of the Great Terror is almost impossible. The numbers, without exaggeration, likely rise to nearly 10 million. Stalin murdered fully one-third of the Communist Party's members. As always, records are unclear, but most historians agree that at least 750,000 people were killed in just two years, a million more people were sent to gulags,

while a precise count is impossible. Some historians put the toll of the Great Terror between 1927 and 1938 at greater than 10 million. All of that murdering didn't put Stalin's mind at ease. In fact, Stalin's personal life was in shambles. People said that the only person Stalin ever feared in his life was his mother. Even during the Holodomor and the Great Terror, he wrote to her often, always in Georgian, as she never learned to speak or write Russian. Dear Mama, he wrote, Greetings. Keep well. Don't let sorrow enter your heart. Remember the saying, while I live, I will live joyously. When I die, the graveyard worms will rejoice.

He ends almost every letter with good wishes in traditional Georgian form. Live 10,000 years, mama dear. People criticized Stalin for never inviting his mother to his home in Moscow, but he actually did, and she visited once to meet Nadia and then never again left Georgia. Stalin gave his mother a palace in Georgia, but she was never comfortable in the huge home and insisted on living in one little room. A small woman wearing all black, puttering around in her one room of the palace. It seems like Stalin often asked for forgiveness in his letters to his mother, saying things like, Greetings, Mama dear. It's a long time since I got a letter from you.

I must have offended you. But what can I do? God knows how busy I am. Or, greetings, mama dear. Of course I owe you an apology for not writing recently, but what can I do? I'm snowed under with work and couldn't take time out to write. Busy running the country, mom. Wish I could write more, but I need to persecute, terrify, and murder millions of people. The work just never ends. Write back soon. His daughter Svetlana summed Stalin up pretty well when she said, I don't believe he ever suffered any pangs of conscience. But he was not happy either, having reached the ultimate in his desires by killing many, crushing others, and being admired by some. None of it brought back his wives or made his mother proud of him. By March 1939, the Great Terror was over.

It seemed that there was no one left to kill, and Stalin needed to turn his attention more fully to Germany. Stalin had admired Hitler's decisively bold actions for most of the 1930s, especially the ones that removed Hitler's political hurdles from the picture permanently. When he heard about the Night of the Long Knives in 1934, when Hitler ordered hundreds of perceived opponents killed all in one night, Stalin apparently commented, did you hear what happened in Germany? Some fellow that Hitler splendid. That's a deed of some skill. By 1939, it was clear that Hitler was preparing for war, and so Great Britain and France proposed an alliance with the Soviet Union.

Neither country was eager to invite Soviet troops into their countries for fear they may never leave. They didn't trust Stalin, but they needed protection against Hitler. But Stalin didn't feel the Soviet Union needed protection against Hitler. But Stalin didn't feel the Soviet Union needed protection against Hitler. He was on Hitler's side. And in some strange ways, that partnership made perfect sense. Stalin and Hitler themselves maybe didn't even realize that they lived weirdly parallel lives. Both of them had been the third child born to their parents, but the first to survive. Both were born into poverty and had fathers who were shoemakers at one time. Both boys were rumored to be illegitimate. Both had partners who had

attempted or died by suicide. And of course, their regimes mirrored each other in ways that shook the rest of the world. On August 23, 1939, Stalin and Hitler's foreign minister signed a Nazi-Soviet non-aggression pact, saying that when war was declared, Germany would sell munitions to Russia. Russia would sell Germany much-needed oil, grain, and coal. Germany and Russia would then carve up Europe and each take parts for themselves. The following month, World War II began. I'll see you again soon. Thank you for listening to Here's Where It Gets Interesting. I'm your host and executive producer, Sharon McMahon.

Our supervising producer is Melanie Buck-Parks. The show is written and researched by Mandy Reed, Amy Watkin, Kari Anton, Sharon McMahon, and Melanie Buck-Parks. Our audio producer is Craig Thompson. And if you enjoyed this episode, sharing, rating, and subscribing helps podcasters out so much. Thanks again for listening to Here's Where It Gets Interesting, and I'll see you again soon.