Here's Where It Gets Interesting - Sure, I'll Join Your Cult with Maria Bamford

Episode Date: September 27, 2023

Joining Sharon today is comedian and author Maria Bamford, who shares the hometown of Duluth, Minnesota. Together, they discuss how Maria began her career as a comedian, and dive into her book: Sure, I'll Join Your Cult: A Memoir of Mental Illness and the Quest to Belong Anywhere. In this delightful conversation, they playfully banter about the irony of fundraising benefits, what makes one susceptible to cult-like mentality, and explore the cultural shift that has allowed society to speak more openly about mental health. Maria’s quirky and personal comedy style gives room to breathe, and to not be offended if something is not your style. Special thanks to our guest, Maria Bamford, for joining us today. Host/Executive Producer: Sharon McMahon Guest: Maria Bamford Audio Producer: Jenny Snyder Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello, friends. Welcome. Delighted to have you with me. My guest today is comedian Maria Bamford. You have probably seen her on the internet or maybe you've seen her live. She is actually from my hometown. And it was just so fun to be able to chat with her about her new book. Sure, I'll join your cult. So let's dive in. I'm Sharon McMahon, and here's where it gets interesting. Well, I'm very excited to be chatting with comedian and author Maria Bamford. Thank you for being here.

Thank you for having me. We share a hometown. Let's just get that out of the way. We share a hometown. I moved away. I moved to California. I moved to Washington, D.C. and I moved back to our shared hometown. You don't live there anymore, but our shared hometown of Duluth actually is mentioned a bunch of times in your book, which is why I bring it up. Yes, of course. You can follow Duluth on Perfect Duluth Day. They're often sharing different beautiful videos of the harbor. It is the climate change city. It is. Via the New York Times, they say everybody should move there

because of the fresh water supply. I would love to hear more about how you got started in stand-up comedy. I'm sure it's a question like every single interviewer asks you and you're like, I've told this story. It's on YouTube. There's 600 videos on YouTube where you can find this story. But let's assume that today's listener has never heard your stand-up before. How did you go from living in a very isolated community on the shores of Lake Superior to having your own Netflix show, to winning all kinds of comedy awards, to being a very well-known comedian, and to now being a published author. I didn't think about comedy as a job, I think, until I got into college and they had stand-up nights where you could do an open mic. And I was like, oh, this is, I think, what I would like to do. Stand-up comedy, I've heard, is absolutely

terrifying. Is that the case in your experience? It is the safest place in the world, an extremely controlled environment. You're amplified, you're lit, you're monologuing. Most times nobody wants to interrupt you. But if they do, they've got to come up with something pretty good for the audience to be in their favor and then keep it up. So you do have a lot of power. At the same time, you can also avoid any situation where you're not welcome. Like, I don't do shows where I know I'm going to really do poorly. There's plenty of shows I could do here in Manhattan or Brooklyn that I would bomb at, you know, just feet from. Like what? What kind of show would you bomb at?

Oh, anything. Like late shows where it's mostly tourists. If it's kind of like a wide net, people who just want to come see comedy and they just go, oh, I just want to, I would like somebody, anybody just to make you laugh on topics that most people find funny. Like heteronormative, not very wordy, conceptual, like men are like this, women are like this. I'm verbose for sure. I talk about mental health issues, which makes some people very uncomfortable. And I think also when people are drinking more, it's hard to focus. And so watching me is very frustrating for people who are drinking a lot. It's like, I almost got it, but then I didn't. So it's better to have a comedian who's like telling you a very explicit idea. And then there's a beat and you know what you're laughing about, where the rhythm is. And I am definitely not, I'm not a good time gal.

I'm not a good time gal. I had not thought about like, as a comedian, you really do have to choose the audiences where you feel you will be successful because you want it to be a good experience, of course, but you also want the audience to have a good experience. And if it's a bunch of drunk 21 year old college dudes, that might not be the right vibe. There's no need. I can definitely give it a shot if I'm the only comic there. But I am never the only comic there. It's never an actual comic emergency where it's me or no one.

Yeah. Yeah. That is the truth. know what. Yeah, yeah. But before we started recording, you were just saying that you had just finished a show at like 10am in Brooklyn and that that was a great crowd. Is that because those people were like, I have tickets to see Maria? Yes. Yes. It's a planned event. And I think you add value to something that you plan to see and made an effort to go see, or at least you're conscious that you've made a choice, that you have some skin in the game to bring some sort of open attitude. I know that when I'm grumpy, if I'm grumpy, and I've been shopping all day in Times Square, and I've got a

bag of my, you know, from the M&M store and then another sack from the Cheesecake American Girl dolls. And I wander into Stand Up Live and I go, I guess we'll eat dinner here. Make me laugh. I'm going to need someone who is going to like really get me going. And I'm not going to want to think too much. I'm going to have a lot of energy. And again, I have no energy. I have no ambition. I have no, I'm like within the myth of Sisyphus, I am the rock and it's someone else's job to push me up

the hill and I'm going to fall right back down again. Hey, I love though that you like, listen, I know who my audience is. My show is tailored to my audience. I don't go where I'm not wanted. I don't go where I'm not welcome. I'm not going to chase people and beg them to love me. Either it's a fit or it's not. Yeah. It's tailored to me. You know, I find it funny. You know, I want to have a good time. Everything is subjective. If you don't enjoy something, I never think to write a bad review about a restaurant. Oh, it's not for me, you know, and then you move on. You go have another meal and another experience someplace else, which is something I do love about Duluth. I was able to be a waitress during high school,

and I was terrible at it. And Duluth, that is one thing about Duluth, is people suck it up meal-wise. Like if something just goes off the rails, they just go, well, they're just trying. And it is crazy in here, isn't it? It was good portions. And they gave me extra cheese. Yes, absolutely. That is the primary criteria of food in Duluth is the extra cheese. Absolutely it is. My dad was a lifelong Duluthian.

That was his primary criteria. It's like, oh, yeah, it's got to be like good portions, good portions. Doesn't actually matter like what is it cooked in? What does it taste like? Does it look appealing? Does it have a nice mouth feel? Oh no, no, no. It's the good portions.

It's good portions here. That's what you need. I am very much like that myself. I think my dad, I got that from my dad of the court of pride of like, I will eat anywhere. I will stay anywhere. I will not complain. And then if it doesn't go well, you have another, yeah, you have an hour, hopefully in the future that you can do something different. But I think that about with the arts, like, there's no need to get myself all huffed up or for anyone else to be upset. Like, there's some peer pressure in comedy clubs. If you go to a show, there's lights on the crowd. So I understand that it takes some courage to leave a show. So I understand that when people

start heckling because they've been asked to buy two drinks that aren't usually very strong and then they're not enjoying the show. That's when disputes begin to happen publicly. But I think I just bow to anyone. Please be courageous and leave a show that you are not enjoying. It's better for you to get up and leave than to heckle and have a bad time and like bring everybody else down. Yeah. Oh, there's no need.

And just to be kind to yourself. Why suffer? Oh my Lord. There's enough suffering in life. And can we stop benefits? Oh my God. Benefits where you find yourself watching dance on behalf of Parkinson's?

Rich people, just throw all your money in a pile in a performative manner, whatever makes you feel better. And let's do sort of a Hunger Games thing with your money. Does that be the show rather than getting unpaid people to perform for you, to raise money for whatever it is. What's going on? Yes. I feel that way about silent auctions, Maria. Why are we going around to all of these little small businesses? Because it's not the big giant corporations that are giving you money for

your things for your silent auction. It's not Walmart. It's the small mom and pop hardware store who's like, sure, I'll give you a wheelbarrow. And then you're trying to be like, well, you know, hey, Keyport, will you fill it with beer? And then they're trying to auction off this wheelbarrow of beer. And that's not even an exaggeration. I can't tell you how many of these things I've been to that are trying to auction off a wheelbarrow full of beer. And then they have to pay to have it at the country club and pay for all the food and pay for all the servers. Just write a check. Just write a check. I would love if there were, and maybe I'll be the person because we give 11% of our income to Downtown Women's Center in Los Angeles, which is for homeless women in the Skid Row neighborhood of LA. What I'm going to do is I'm going to set up a challenge and say, yeah, with the big names,

with Disney, with Universal, all the people that give a lot of money, but say, let's make it a physical challenge with the top executive of each firm, as well as individual donators. My husband and I are pretty big donators to them. And we'll have to physically bring cash and then stuff it in a pile. I mean, some sort of game element to it. So everyone knows how much you've given. Because I think that's what everybody's needing, is they need everyone to know how much they've given. I get it.

I'm telling everybody what I have a give cam on my head all the time, recording all the good deeds I do so that I'll be more pleasant. But I will think of something, Sharon. It should be that whoever's donating has to bring in actual cash. They have to drag it in in duffel bags or in some type of contraption. And they should have to outdo each other with their float of cash. do each other with their float of cash. I brought in an actual float that is decorated with rosettes made of cash. They should have to have elaborate displays of wealth, not the tiny little mom and pop hardware store being like, here's a hoe and a wheelbarrow. That is a gorgeous idea. And it reminds me, my sister's husband, his grandma, because she grew up in the depression, she loved dollar bills. And so what they would do for

Christmas is they give her $100 bills, but like in wonderful shapes, or pressed, kind of brand new ones and stuff like that. So no, I think that's the element I think we need is a performative, competitive, reality show type thing for doing like the Ice Bucket Challenge, but with just cash, just emptying large amounts of cash publicly into a pile. This is the price you must pay, the price of admission, because we allow you to be excessively wealthy. Yeah. Not you personally. I'm talking about the CEO of Walmart. We're permitting you to be excessively wealthy.

You must engage in our requirements. Because then we can all look around and be like, who's not here? Who's not here with 50,000? Right? Oh, you only brought 50,000, Maria? Oh, that's kind of sad. Is everything okay? Yeah. Is everything okay? Exactly. I agree. I like this idea that we're brainstorming right now. That is your requirement as a person of extraordinary wealth is you must display your extraordinary wealth for the good of humanity and play the donation game. Yeah. The donation game. Whatever it is we decide, maybe we'll switch it up every year. Oh, I think so. Yeah. The donation game. Whatever it is, we decide. Maybe we'll switch it up every year. Oh, I think so. Yeah. And that sometimes it involves live animals, chinchillas. Absolutely. Why wouldn't? I mean, the question is, why wouldn't it involve chinchillas?

That's the question. Why wouldn't it involve? You'd have to convince me why it wouldn't. Right, right. And I mean, I want to ask consent from the potentialists because they are prey animals and are built to be eaten. So I don't want to bring them into this, but they are adorable. And very soft. And very soft. We could brainstorm a lot of ways that this could only go right. It could never go wrong. It could only go right.

right. It could never go wrong. It could only go right. I fail to see how forcing the ultra wealthy to bring in a camel carrying large packs of cash. I don't see how this could possibly go wrong. I love it. I'm in. I'm thinking of ways to do it. I love it. I'm in. I'm thinking of ways to do it. Whatever you're thinking, think bigger. Think more ostentatious. Think Prince Ali, Mighty Is Me, Ali Ababa.

You know what I'm talking about? The song in the Disney movie where he comes in and he's like, he has an entire parade of animals and displays of his extraordinary wealth that he is bringing as a gift to try to entice Jasmine. Oh my gosh. Yeah. And if somebody brought that for the Safe Haven Domestic Violence Women's Center in Duluth doing their fundraiser, that'd be wonderful because they need the money. What other great nonprofits that they're in Duluth? There's Lifehouse. Lifehouse. Lifehouse is great for homeschool teenagers. And what is it? Girls Club.

The Boys and Girls Club. Boys and Girls Club. What is the one that has food every day? It has meals once a day. Chum. Chum. Chum. Chum.

Absolutely. We need to make this happen. This is not where it's going to happen now. I don't want to go to any more benefits. I don't want to be asked to like donate a business item to a benefit. I don't want to go to this thing with quote unquote champagne chicken, which is just Cisco food that's been reheated where I have to make small talk with other people at a table that I'm assigned to.

I don't want to do any of that. I do want to go to an event where rich people have to show off their ostentatious donations. Yeah, there's no food. There's no music. It's just maybe that person showcasing a talent and then carrying their bag of cash in whatever creative way they want to give it. And then carrying their bag of cash in whatever creative way they want to give it. And then someone from the organization counting it out and then counting out the numbers. I like that. I like the count. And somebody else operating the pretend thermometer to show how high the number grows on the faux thermometer.

the number grows on the faux thermometer. I like that visual display of like, oh, you know, the thermometer went up to 20 million, but we're only, we're down here at 250,000. Like you're, that's not very high on the thermometer. Yes. I'm Jenna Fisher. And I'm Angela Kinsey. We are best friends. And together we have the podcast Office Ladies, where we rewatched every single episode of The Office with insane behind the scenes stories, hilarious guests and lots of laughs. Guess who's sitting next to me? Steve! It's my girl in the studio! in the studio. Every Wednesday, we'll be sharing even more exclusive stories

from the office and our friendship with brand new guests. And we'll be digging into our mailbag to answer your questions and comments. So join us for brand new

Office Lady 6.0 episodes every Wednesday. Plus, on Mondays, we are taking a second drink. You can revisit all the Office Ladies rewatch episodes every Monday

with new bonus tidbits before every episode. Well, we can't wait to see you there. Follow and listen to Office Ladies on the free Odyssey app and wherever you get your podcasts. I want to talk about your book, which is hilarious. First of all, the cover made me laugh. The book is called Sure, I'll Join Your Cult. And it has a picture of you on the cover with this kind of look on your face where you're like, uh-huh, where you're just, you almost look like you've been a hypnotized cult member. And I really enjoyed reading it. It was just such a fun read.

And I want to hear more about the impetus for, first of all, why have you joined so many cults, Maria? And second of all, what made you want to write a book about it? Well, cult is a very loose term. It's a group of people. I'm not talking about the ones where it can be dangerous, so you have to cut off all your friends and family. But I think anything that you join always has a set of beliefs that everyone's adhering to, whether it's mentioned or not mentioned. And that starts with your family. And then I was raised in the church. And so that was

kind of a place where I sort of learned how to say things that I didn't really believe in just to belong, which made for a lifetime practice of doing that in other areas. Like, you know, that it's kind of teaches you how like, it's okay to participate in some sort of gray area. You'll not totally be down for everything about something like I go to 12 step groups, I started over 25 years ago, I was bulimic. And so I went to overeaters anonymous, because I called the suicide hotline. And they said, Oh, this is free. And I'll help. And it did, it genuinely helped a lot. But it's totally weird. There's so many things that made it kind of normal for me where

I was like, oh yeah, they mentioned God. Everyone's like, oh, okay. It's this really great source of community help that is at no cost, but to get along in the group, there are a lot of prayers. There's a lot of structure of what you're supposed to do, the 12 steps, that could make some people feel uncomfortable or feel like it is a cult. And the one thing that I like to host both groups is they always say in every type of group, they always say, take what you want, leave the rest, which is what I definitely have taken that to heart that I just like to go because I think it's good to make eye contact with other human beings and hear about how other people are trying to do harm reduction. Like,

oh my God, I cannot stop eating. Well, can you limit it to three extra large pizzas a day? You know, like just do a little bit. What can you do? I've really gotten a lot of out of those, but then I've been in Dadders Anonymous for 25 years. They also have rules that 12-step groups that you're not supposed to say publicly which groups you attend. And that's when I don't, I get it. I've read all about it, why you're not supposed to do it. I have a really hard time keeping that stuff to myself.

And I think it's such a weird group that I just, I want to talk about it. So, oh, well, I'm breaking the rule and nobody's kicked me out yet. So, oh, well. If they kick you out of that cult, you can always find another one. Well, there is also another. And I do, I mean, I think that's why people join really rigid cults that maybe somehow may be dangerous is to have like, oh, here's this welcoming body of people who are just like, all you got to do is come with us, do these things, believe these three items, and then we will accept you completely. Or that's three items, and then we will accept you completely. Or that's probably the ruse, but I'm down to try anything once. You talk a lot about mental health in your book. The subtitle of your book is A Memoir of Mental Illness and the Quest to Belong Anywhere.

And I wonder if you can tell the listeners why you felt like it was important for you to write about your experiences with mental illness and your quest to belong. You know, one thing, mental health issues, people who have been in the public arena who have lost jobs or lost prestige or relationships due to whatever disability or, you know, et cetera. That's really helped me to hear people share about that. How do you keep going? So I wanted to share whatever it is I have, which I'm sure many people have heard a billion times before. So apologies. And I put throughout the book recycling.

I put a recycling symbol anytime I'm recycling an old joke. So apologies for any recyclables. throughout the book recycling. I put a recycling symbol anytime I'm recycling an old joke. So apologies for any recyclables. So it's just an effort to try to be useful because I think that is all I have to offer. I don't really have anything else to talk about that's of note. I had a great childhood and especially now that I'm a multimillionaire, there really is no story. You're like, now I have absolutely no room to talk about anything. Yeah. Because it has turned out okay for me. And I'm not going to be like, oh, no, my fancy private school education.

Oh, no, parents who loved me. Oh, no, a safe home and food. Now I have no room to talk. Yeah. Oh, God, no, it is definitely not my time. I'm amazed that I got on this podcast. So thank you. I do love, though, that you're willing to share about your struggles with mental health because it, as you know, is highly stigmatized, especially in certain circles, highly stigmatized. And people feel like they have to pretend that they have their whole life together, that their house is always clean and the upstairs brain

is clean and free of cobwebs and that they cook a nice dinner every night and they never have destructive thoughts or intrusive thoughts and they never devolve into any types of unhealthy thinking. There is absolutely a pressure to pretend like everything is hunky dory. And it's actually very refreshing when somebody is willing to be like, no, it is not. It is not all hunky-dory. And it's actually very refreshing when somebody is willing to be like, no, it is not. It is not all hunky-dory. Yeah, well, I think our society, like, it bleeds out anyway. Like, you know, all those, the dish towels that say it's wine o'clock somewhere and stop whining, more cheesing, you know, whatever. It's like, oh, I think we've all developed a an alcohol problem over the quarantine like apologies if they don't relate but it's okay to be whoever you are but I think it's so much more acceptable

now my niece and nephews are just so much more able like to talk about they've all been to therapy they've all can talk about whatever issues they have, very verbal about mental health stuff, which I think is a result of TikTok and Instagram, where people are talking about it. And so I think it's gotten a lot better. And so many people are saying much more interesting things that I'm saying about it. Like there's several comedians with schizophrenia, who have some really wonderful, not only hilarious, but educational material where you go, oh, okay. That's what it's like. Because I think that's what the arts are for is to see what it's like to live in someone else's shoes or that's what it is for me anyway. I think you're absolutely right that we have been seeing a huge amount of cultural shift

over the last even 15 years where Gen Z, your nieces and nephews, my children are growing up in a very different world where it seems like, yeah, if you're having struggles with your mental health, ask your parents to get you a therapist. Yeah. And that is, that's what you should do. That is a good idea. And it's not a like, don't tell anyone you see a therapist. It's much more like I see a therapist to take care of myself and maybe you should, you know, like I can tell you all about it. It's not just like you go get your heart listened to with your sports physical. Taking care of your mental health has become far more acceptable to do. Yeah. And at the same time, there can be some pressure too, because like, oh, it's okay to talk about

like, then people feel like, or at least sometimes I get worried about the memes that say, hey, you do you, hey, take care of yourself. And you're like, well, what if someone has no access to help? What if things are really bad? We had friends who are experiencing domestic abuse, who lived in our neighborhood in Duluth. There was a gun in the house, very frightening. You don't know what somebody's living with. And then to say, oh, just take a walk, get a massage. It's like, oh, but what about that gun in the house? I think being kind to each other and also that they're also, it's not just a progressive issue that therapy is also there for people who have faith. There are plenty of faith-based therapies that

are very good and very helpful. And yeah, that it's not just something for liberals. I totally agree with you that we can't just be like, oh my gosh, get therapy. It's fantastic. You have to acknowledge that no amount of self-care is going to erase the fact that you live with abusive parents. You can't self-care that away. And the lack of access to mental health care is actually a very serious issue, especially in many areas, less affluent areas of the country, the lack of access can be very problematic. But I do agree that like talking about it is a very important first step. Sometimes I think, and this is for all forms of healthcare, you just have to really advocate for yourself and have a witness there with you and somebody supporting you, whatever kind of healthcare

it is that that really can help. Not everyone's going to be perfect. So definitely look out for yourself is what I'm trying to say. What do you hope the reader takes away from, sure, I'll join your cult? I think, I hope that if they don't like it, they can put it in the little library. I hope to find my book destroyed in a little library somewhere in Duluth. That is my dearest hope. And enjoy it. If you don't enjoy it, oh my God, buy another book. Buy another book. Get a different one. If this was in no way interesting to you, please treat yourself to a cowboy romance or whatever it is floats your boat. A bodice ripper or something super spooky. Get something different. Yes. Nobody says you have to. Just like,

don't come to my show if I'm not for you. Don't read my book if I'm not for you. And that is okay. That is okay with me. I get it. I feel that. You know, I had to laugh about your comment about the Toulouse budgeteer. Oh, yes, I love the budgeteer. It made me laugh.

I had a budgeteer paper out when I was a child, where you had to deliver, literally, Maria, 300 papers on a Saturday morning. You had to deliver 300 papers. And I'm, and that was a much more normal amount of papers. Like they gave you a specific route, and then you just delivered however many people were subscribing on that route. Whereas the budgeteer was like you had to deliver a minimum of 300 newspapers. Well, if we're going to confess things, I was Girl Scout at Chester Park School and I took everyone's orders. I believe this would have been around 1978 on Fifth Street. I took their orders for cookies and then those cookies came in and I never delivered them because I was too shy to return to their homes. And did you keep the cookies then? shy to return to their homes.

And did you keep the cookies then? Oh yeah, we ate all those cookies. But we paid for them, but we ate all those cookies. Hey, I have a million stories like that. Well, Sharon, this has been a delight. It has. Thank you so much. It was a delight to chat with you. Congratulations on your book, and I really appreciate your time.

Thank you. Thank you so much. You can buy Maria Bamford's new book, Sure, I'll Join Your Cult, wherever you buy your books. If you want to support independent bookstores, you can go to bookshop.org. And you can also visit mariabamford.com, get a better feel for her stand-up, and see where she'll be performing next. Thanks for being here today. The show is hosted and executive produced by me, Sharon McMahon. Our audio producer is Jenny Snyder. And if you enjoyed today's episode, please be sure to subscribe on your favorite podcast

platform. And if you could leave us a review or share this episode on social media, those things help podcasters out so much. Thanks for being here today.