Here's Where It Gets Interesting - The Power of Community, Micro Actions, and Boundaries with Jenna Kutcher

Episode Date: June 15, 2022

In today’s episode, Jenna Kutcher sits down to talk with Sharon about the release of her first book, How Are You, Really?: Living Your Truth One Answer at a Time and how she wrote the manuscript in secret, doing it on her own terms. Jenna loved the refining process with her book, which saw it evolve from a business and marketing subject into a book that gets more personal, tackling topics like body image, loneliness, community, and personal intuition. Sharon and Jenna also touch on their shared sense of community living in the same Northern Minnesota city, and how to both tackle life’s challenges one small step at a time and say no when you need to. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This episode is brought to you by Canon Canada. From street interviews to vlogging or filmmaking, great content gets even better when you're shooting with great gear. That's what Canon's Level Up sales event is all about. With awesome deals on their range of cameras and lenses, you can grab everything you need for that shot or scene you've been dreaming of for less.

Whether you're helping that special person take their content up a notch or adding that extra quality to your own shoots, Canon's got you covered. Shop the Level up sales event today at canon.ca. Hello, friends. Welcome. As always, so excited that you're here. And I'm so excited to share my conversation with the one and only Jenna Kutcher today. Jenna is actually a neighbor of mine. Did you know that? We both live in the woods of Northern Minnesota. And she has a new book out called How Are You Really? And I just think you're going to get so much out of this conversation. So let's dive in. I'm Sharon

McMahon. And welcome to the Sharon Says So podcast. Thank you so much for coming, Jenna. Thank you for having me. I am a huge fan. My team is obsessed with you. And so I feel like I get the gold star of the day for getting to sit with you on this conversation. So thanks for having me. Gold star for Jenna. It is weird that we both live in the same city, not that far away from each other because where we live is relatively remote corner of the globe in Northern Minnesota. 150 miles from a Whole Foods or a Trader Joe's. You know what I mean? You grew up here. So did I, and we both moved away and came back. Yes. What is it about living in Northern Minnesota that you love? It's not the beautiful spring.

It's not the mud. No. Oh my gosh. I know. So I was gone for 12 years and I was five hours South in Wisconsin. So it's not like I went to the city, but it was really interesting. I never thought I would come back. I was always one of those people who was like, no, I love home for what it is, but. I never thought I would come back. I was always one of those people

who was like, no, I love home for what it is, but I'll never go back. And it was really our fertility journey and recognizing that while we had a support system, there is nothing like family and people always ask us like, why do you live there? And I'm like, man, like having family in proximity is everything. And it's funny too, because where the city has changed so much, I mean, so much in the last decade. And so I feel like when I came home, it wasn't coming back. It was like almost getting to know what Duluth is now. And that has been a really fun journey with my husband, who's from Wisconsin, who's like, why do we live in the tundra? Oh, wait, your family. Minnesota, northern Minnesota has a lot of unique things to offer. People tend to think we dog sled around to Antarctic research stations get around. Uh, that's the only, it's just, it's parkas 24 seven. And to be fair, it is cold much of the year, but it's also just an incredibly unique community on the

shores of the largest lake in the world. And it's a unique place to live. It really is very unique. It's beautiful. The people here are very interesting and cool. I love it here. I do too. You know what, Sharon, I was recently on a flight. You'll die about this, but you know, when they're emptying a flight and they're like, for anyone that has a quick layover, can everyone else just stay seated? And usually it's just like a cluster. Well, we were on a Minnesota flight. Literally everyone sat down, cheered on the passengers. You got this, you can make your layover. And I was like, and this is why I love Minnesota. Yes. Yes. Do you get picked on for your accent? Because I feel like over the years of podcasting, I've shed a lot of words, but every once in a while they'll

slip through and people will be like, yep, there she is. Oh, you want to get out there on that boat, do you? I will tell you there's nothing funnier of course in a high school classroom there's nothing funnier than just turning on a full-throated minnesota accent be like hey you better be in your seats before i count to one um that is very funny to them it, it ends up being extremely useful to me. You utilize it as a gift. That's right. It's a gift to me that I learned to speak like my grandmother who was always like, Oh, for cute. So cute. You have a book coming out and I'm so the fact that you were writing a book, you kept it secret when you are somebody who, you know, you share quite a bit of your life and a lot of what you're doing online. What was it about this process that you were like, I need to protect it. I can't tell anybody, or was it you just trying to

make it a huge surprise? What was your, you know, it's funny. I'm a very big strategy person, but there was not as much strategy here. What I think is so interesting is Sharon, you're creative, just like me. Like you have that creative background. And for me in the past, I've learned the lesson that whenever a deadline or money gets involved in any project, my creativity goes squash. Like I'll stare at a blinking cursor and I'll be like, what? So when I wrote the book, I did it entirely backwards. So no agent, no book deal, no deadline, nothing. Because for years I said I would never do it. Like I was just, I was a never girl. I was like, I don't get why anyone would do this. It's such a long project, you know? And so when I finally decided I wanted to do it,

I was like, I'm going to just do it for me. If nobody sees this, I want to know that like, I'm invested in this enough that like, if there's no five-star rating, if there's no announcement, it still matters to me. And it was the first time in a decade that I've really done a project that has lasted so long and not breathed a word. Like even my mom and sister didn't even know about it for a long time because it was kind of like I was testing the waters and being like, do I really want to do this? Cause I said never for a really long time. And so once I finally got into the whole process, I wrote the manuscript, got the book deal, got all the deadlines and all those other things. I recognize that launching a book is a whole

separate entity than writing the book. There's the creative side, and then there's the strategy side. And my brain had to separate those two so fully so that it wouldn't get convoluted. So I recognized one, I need to have stamina to market this thing. And I don't want to burn people out on it. It matters so much to me, but I can't talk about it for a year straight. I don't want to burn people out on it. It matters so much to me, but I can't talk about it for a year straight. I can't talk about anything for a year straight. So I announced it in January, which gave me a six month runway about sharing the whole process that had been unfolding for over a year and a half. And now it's out in the world. It's crazy. It's so crazy. I'm so curious too, about why you chose the subject that you did,

because if somebody is listening to this and you don't already follow Jenna Kutcher, she has worked in the small business space for a long time. She has a very popular podcast called the Gold Digger podcast, where she really speaks into the hearts and minds of people who are creative, small business owners, and also in sort of that personal development space that you have sort of moved into. So I'm curious about why you chose this and not a book about marketing or a book about some business topic that you are really proficient in. Oh, I love this.

I actually, so when I initially wrote that manuscript by myself, after my daughter was sleeping at night, it was a business book. And what's fascinating is that I put myself in that corner. You know, it's like hilarious how a lot of times we'll leave like nine to five or corporate jobs because of the titles and you're put in a box. And then a lot of times we box ourselves in is like, I am known for this one thing. And this is what I'm going to do. And of course it's like, I have the number one marketing podcast. Why would I not write about marketing? But it was fascinating because as I started writing life stories and things, it was a business book initially. And by the time it got to my agent and she said, well, let's pull out a few of these chapters for the proposal. She pulled out all of the personal chapters, chapters about body image, chapters about

like having these visions and working towards them, chapters about relationships as women, like all of these things. And so by the time I was sitting down with editors, they were like, okay, we love this, but like, it's not a business book. Where do you want to see it in Barnes and Noble? Like, where is it going to be on the shelves? And we had to basically like restructure the whole thing, but I loved the process. The things that authors hate, I loved because I could see it getting better with every version. And I think in the digital world,

we're so quick to just hit publish and like put things out, get feedback. And it was like, oh my gosh, this is a refining that happens with time. And so what I'm so grateful for is I feel like books can be a couple different things. And for me, I feel like the book is a brand shifter because while I love business and I love marketing and I love strategy. We live in Minnesota just for this reason. I want to work so that I can have the choice in my life and the freedom in my life and to have convenience. So those are like the things that I love about entrepreneurship. And a lot of times I think people leave those nine to fives and end up working 24 seven. And like, that's just not for me. So it was really fascinating to shift it from a business book to more of like a life book

and to kind of help people really come back home to themselves in a way that maybe they haven't like asked themselves, how am I like, do I like my life? Am I faking that? I like my life. Do I feel unfulfilled? Do I hate my body? Like all of these things. And it was a big shift, but it was a

really good one. And the book is called, how are you really? And so I don't think you, if you, again, if you weren't already familiar with your brand, I don't know that you would pick it up and be like, this is a book about marketing. So even to the title, even the title of a cover, none of it reads that business space. And I thought that was so such an interesting choice of first books for you because the first book sets the tone for your author career. It does. And it's funny because I'm an avid reader. I love reading. And one of the things that I've learned that I never knew as a reader is things like the acknowledgements, things like the title, the dedication, all of that is usually done last. And so we had many working titles. This is so

funny, Sharon, you actually know the person I'm going to reference. Cause we both get our eyebrows done and our hair done in similar places. And we had a working title and I loved it. And it was the working title was close your eyes. And it was the working title was close your eyes. And like the whole thought was like, come back to your intuition. And I told my hairstylist this and she goes, Oh my God, it sounds like a murder mystery. Like close your eyes. And like, and I was like, Oh, that's not what we're going for. Okay. Maybe we need to go back to the drawing board. And so it was fascinating because I was pregnant with my second daughter and she was like, I mean, it was 10 days before her due date and we had to name the book. And I'm like, I already have to name one child. I have to name

another one. And I kept texting friends of mine asking for advice. Cause I'm like, how do you name a book? And I kept describing it. And I was like, you know, the difference between like sitting down with someone and you're like, how are you? Oh, good. Fine. Busy. Let's get together soon. That kind of talk. And then I'm like, but when you're with somebody you love and they like lean in and you feel safe and they're like, how are you really? And you just spill your guts. I was like, that's it. And someone was like, why don't you name it that? And I'm like, oh, thank you. Smart person in my life. That's great. That's what's so fascinating about the publishing world too, is like you and I were so used to being like the entrepreneurs,

the visionaries, the executors, like all of the things. And so it's really interesting to work with people who are experts in their industry. That is so different than the digital one that we find ourselves in. And so it's this push and pull in a beautiful way of like, no, no, no. I did not want my face on the cover. I just didn't. I don't know. I just had a complex about it. And they were like, no, no, you got to have your face on the cover.

And I'm like, I don't want that. And, you know, it was, it's this interesting, like, what do you fight for? And what do you release? And there were certain chapters where I was like, this one needs to be in. And then we ended up pulling it at the last minute, but then it was the right decision. And so it's fat, like the creative behind a book is so fascinating. And I just encourage any readers read the acknowledgements. Like once you finish a book, you will see how many people go into creating this one thing that you hold in your hands. It's amazing. It's incredible.

So true. It is. And publishing is such a glacial pace compared to the digital world. You're like two years. I can go on Instagram live and talk to thousands of people in two minutes. That's right. It's absurd. It, it's totally absurd. Okay. Let's talk about some of the topics that you cover in your book, because I just feel like so many of the chapters people are really going to relate to. They're going to find really nuggets of wisdom where they're like, oh, that's good. That's really good. And a lot of what you share in the book are things that you have learned the hard way. It's not because you are a clinical psychologist where you're like, I have done copious numbers of

studies. Like this is real world advice that you have gleaned either from life experience, from friends, from friends who have been through similar things. How did you choose which topics went into the book? And then share with us a little bit about like, what can somebody expect when they're looking through this? What are they going to get out of it? You know, what's funny, Sharon is like, for us, we're both very public. And I think a lot of times people are like, what haven't you talked about? Like I've blogged thousands of posts over the years. I have 500 plus episodes on my show. There's a lot that I keep really close to my heart. Just like I kept the book kind of quiet. There's a lot of stories and things that,

you know, I think take a lot of years to unpack or that you're processing or that you're working through. And one of the things that I always want to tell people when it comes to my book is this is not a book on how to be more like Jenna. In fact, it's like the opposite of that. It is how to come back to your intuition, to like your inner knowing and like pay attention to you and your desires. And so I wanted to include things like body image. I really think that the way that we feel about ourselves impacts how we show up in every area of our life, whether it's relationship, career, impacts how we show up in every area of our life, whether it's relationship, career, friendship, motherhood, like whatever that is. I talk about the golden handcuffs, which is the world that we're seeing the great resignation of women leaving the workforce in droves without having

backup plans, because they're just saying, I cannot do this, or this is not for me. And so talking about this concept of golden handcuffs, where we are staying in positions for longer than we should, or, or staying in places where we know we shouldn't be because people are telling us we'd be crazy to leave, or we have all these benefits. What are we thinking? I talk a lot about community because it's something I've struggled with. You and I talk about this offline where it's really hard to find people who relate. And a lot of times we're hesitant to even help people to understand because we just think they'll never get it. And so we don't even allow that space for that. And

so community, because I think a lot of us are feeling lonely. And so there are three sections of the book and it's who you are really. And the first part is like, get quiet with yourself. Let's just like go to the bathroom without having your cell phone and sit for one minute and like, ask yourself, how am I doing? The second part is who you have and who has you, which is all about that community piece. And then the last part is what are you going to do about it? Like where the rubber meets the road. Now that you've come back to the fact that maybe you're unhappy or maybe you're unhappy, or maybe you are fulfilled, or maybe your definition of success is different than the

world's, what are you going to do about it? And so it was really, really important to me to talk about the things that I'm having, the conversations I'm having offline with the women in my life and bringing them into the pages of the book. So it is incredibly timely. But again, it's just these stories that help illuminate stories that might be happening or shaking out within your own life. I'm Jenna Fisher. And I'm Angela Kinsey. We are best friends. And together we have the podcast Office Ladies, where we rewatched every single episode of The Office with insane behind the scenes stories, hilarious guests, and lots of laughs. Guess who's sitting next to me? Steve!

It's Steve Carell in the studio! Every Wednesday, we'll be sharing even more exclusive stories from The Office and our friendship with brand-new guests, and we'll be digging into our mailbag to answer your questions and comments. So join us for brand new Office Ladies 6.0 episodes every Wednesday. Plus, on Mondays, we are taking a second drink. You can revisit all the Office Ladies rewatch episodes every Monday with new bonus tidbits before every episode. Well, we can't wait to see you there. Follow and listen to Office Ladies on the free Odyssey app and wherever you get your podcasts. I want to talk a little bit about the concept of community. That's challenging. It's challenging for a variety of reasons. I know you just referenced that people who work in jobs similar to us, it is often difficult

to feel like you have a peer in that. You can just be like, what is that appear that you're not a competition with somebody who gets what it's like to exist in this public space, but yet you're not a Hollywood celebrity with a $40 million compound and 24 seven security. You know, like it's a weird little place to, to exist in the world. But aside from that, most people, again, that's not their lived experience, but yet many people feel extremely lonely. They felt lonely before the pandemic. And it's worse now as we have been sort of cut off in some ways from our work families or friends. And some people have leaned

into online spaces, but perhaps they feel like online communities might feel a little hollow, a little superficial, and they are lacking those sort of deep, meaningful relationships in their lives. And so I'm wondering if you have any thoughts to share about that. Yeah. There's this line in the book that I love and it's like loneliness isn't like being in isolation. It's being in a room of people who don't know who you really are. And I think that is where a lot of us find ourselves. It's like, we're around people, whether it's, you know, in the communities or at work or even around our family. But if we aren't showing up and feeling invited to show up as our full

selves, like the multi-dimensional multifaceted beings that we are, I think it's really easy to be in a room and feel unknown. And I think that's a really hard gap to bridge. I think it's something where a lot of times, especially as women, but for everyone listening, we put on these different personas based on where we're showing up, right? Like we can be, you know, one Jenna at home, one Jenna on stage, one Jenna at work, one Jenna at church. And we're really good at shape-shifting. If you've watched, um, in Kanto, there's a shape shifter. And like, it makes me think about like how a lot of us have just gotten used to like shape-shifting in these different settings so that we're accepted or so that we can feel safe.

And one of the things that I've really had to lean into is there's different types of friends. And I think that we need all of them in our corner. And during the pandemic, I always think about the line. It takes a village specifically, like I have two young ones and I didn't have a village because of life situation. And so it was a very isolating motherhood experience. And while I was fine in that, a lot of people weren't. And so I've been thinking about like there's like life stage friends, like friends that

are in a similar stage of life, whether it's dating or marriage or single or college or motherhood or whatever that is, there's people that understand like likeness. So like you and I are likeness friends. Like we are in a similar industry with a similar platform where you and I can relate on a totally different level than maybe someone else. And I was thinking about this because growing up, do you remember those magazines where it'd be like this celebrity rented this house and it was $8,000 a night and dah, dah, dah, dah. And why are all the celebrities friends with each other? I just don't get it. And it's like, it's because people crave other people that understand their experience. And I think a lot of times in life, we're hesitant to seek out people, regardless of what that is in the book. I share about our fertility journey and struggling with

loss. And I needed friends who had been through that because those were the people that I could turn to for that. And so if you're in a season where you feel so disconnected, the first thing you need to be encouraged to do is be a connector, be somebody who reaches out, be someone who sends that, Hey, no need to respond. Just want you to know, I'm thinking of you text message, be the one in the Facebook group that says, Hey, I'm looking for someone to have a play date with my daughter. Here's a little bit about us who wants to meet up on Tuesday afternoon, because when we say like someday we'll get together, like someday is not on the calendar. We never arrive. And I think a lot of us learn that lesson

when we simply found ourselves like missing hugs and missing like the Thursday burger special at the restaurant. And so getting really specific in your outreach and like for you and I, when we connected, then it was like, how can I encourage you? How are you doing over there? Just checking in on you. You've been a little quiet. It changes everything. It changes your lived experience, but it also changes the way that you feel connected and known. And I think that that's something that a lot of us need to be reminded of is that if we want to have friends, we need to be a friend first. It's so true. And yet it's one of those things where it's really sometimes hard to get over that mental hurdle of like, but I want people to call me.

Yes. I don't want to call them. I want people to call me. Why does nobody call me? I get that. It is challenging. It is challenging, but perhaps the other people are also feeling the same way. Why does nobody call me? So I think everyone is, I think that's the problem. Actually, nobody wants you to call them. Forget scratch that. No one's calling anybody. Why is that? Why is nobody voice messaging? That's the answer. Yes. That's right. Don't call anybody. They're not, they don't recognize your number. They don't have to memorize. They don't know who you are. You're spam. You don't recognize your number. They don't have to memorize. They don't know who you are. You're spam. You're totally spam to them.

I love too, in your book, how you talk about this concept of just one step, because very often, if you're not a big picture strategy person, like you are just the enormity of perhaps one's goals or the enormity of challenges on the road in front of somebody feels like, nevermind, forget it. I'm good much. I'm good where I am, but I love your sort of gentle encouragement to just, it just takes one step. So can you talk a little bit more about that? Yeah. You know, one of the things I talk about is how I used to hate Shavasana in yoga, like the laying flat at the end of the practice, because I hated being still with myself. And I feel like a lot of us are almost running from ourselves in our lives. Like we're filling up the calendar. We're so busy because we're afraid that if we get quiet with ourselves, and if we're honest with ourselves, we're going to have to admit that we need to do

something to change. And I think that's the scariest place to be is in admitting maybe I'm not happy, or maybe I need something different, or maybe this relationship isn't right for me. Now I have to do something about it. And I feel like right now in an overwhelmingly polarizing world that you understand better than literally anyone I know in my entire life, that there are two camps of conversations happening when it comes to being ambitious or when it comes to wanting more. And it's the hustle culture where it's like, just work harder, get up earlier, do more, do more, do more, do more, or the manifestors like just have the vision and it'll come into your life if you say it 10 times every morning. And I feel like

the magic actually lives in the middle of those, like in that gray area of having those visions for your life of desiring something different, but being willing to just take the tiny steps, like the infinite, small little bitty motions towards it. And one of the things that I've learned, especially about myself is that oftentimes I get so ambitious that I set these audacious goals. And then the minute I fall off the bandwagon, I beat myself up and I enter the shame cycle of like, of course you didn't do that. Of course you couldn't follow through on that. Who are you to think you could do that? And what I love about taking these micro actions, like me creating a

Google doc that says, I'm going to write a book. And then starting the first line is that I started to build up the belief that I could write the book. And it's these tiny little actions that build up our confidence. And you can tell when somebody is confident or not. Like we watch Top Chef and we're like, the person who wins the quick fire often wins the big challenge because they have the confidence that carries them forward. And so taking these micro actions helps us build up our confidence. And with that confidence, we start to be carried into that next direction. And so when I think about like,

there's this line where it's like where the woo meets the work, it's like, hold those beautiful visions for your life, like cling to them when things feel dark, but also be willing to lace up your sneakers and just take one step. You don't have to run the marathon. You don't have to run even a mile, but just take that step. And I feel like that is where the actual magic happens. That is like slow growth, deep roots. Like that's what we're all desiring these days. And it's not shiny and it's not Instagram worthy often, but it will reap the greatest harvest. If you really stay committed. I just think a lot of times these days, it's like, I don't have time. I don't have energy. I don't, you know, I don't, I don't have a lot of times these days, it's like, I don't have time. I don't have energy.

I don't, you know, I don't, I don't have a lot of things, but it's like, you do have the ability to spend even just five minutes to better your life, whatever that looks like. And I think because we've not followed through in the past, we doubt our ability to follow through in the future. And that's where we're letting our lives kind of just be in this state of fine instead of good or great or enjoyed or pleasurable or present. It's like, oh, I'm fine. And I think fine is a cool place to be for a while, but fine can really keep you stuck. And I think a lot of people are just kind of fine right now. Mm-hmm. I also wanted to talk about saying no.

Mm-hmm. Let's do it. right now. I also wanted to talk about saying no. You have a chapter in your boundaries. Yeah. How to say heck no. I bet you have experienced times in your life where, you know, as an ambitious person, you see everything as an opportunity and you're like, I could do that. That could be very cool. I can see what I can envision what lies on the other side of that. That sounds amazing. I'm going to try it. And then of course, there are reasons why that is a bad idea. Why it's a terrible idea to say yes to everything. Anybody who's ever said yes to many times can be like, amen. Yes. So, but yet we feel guilty for saying, no, we feel like we're ungrateful for the opportunities. We feel like people are going to be mad at us. We feel like people are going to judge us

and people just in general need to learn how to say heck no, in a way that is useful and meaningful and not destructive. So what is it? Give us the answer. Oh my gosh. Okay. So boundaries are my saving grace in so many ways. And there's this line in the book that I cling to and share so often. It is like my like evangelism to the world where we were taught that boundaries keep people and opportunities out of our lives, right? Like that's why we feel guilt when we say no, but boundaries actually keep us in our life. Boundaries are like the gatekeepers to having us be alive and awake to our own lives. And so when we utilize them in a great way, it allows us to actually live the life of the values that we're talking about. And so I was actually laughing this morning, Sharon, because I have four interviews today and I was thinking to myself, I was like,

oh, this is a wonderful day for interviews. In four years, I did a total of four interviews for other people's shows because I didn't have the bandwidth. I was a new mom. I was transitioning in my life. I was, you know, moving back to Minnesota, all these things. And I was just laughing because I'm like, one, it's beautiful. People can change. I've changed. But two, that boundary really protected me in that season. And now it's changing. And I think that's great. One of the things that I've had to rely on so fully is a script and I'm going to share it. And hopefully your listeners can find a nugget in this. Okay. So I get extended a lot of wonderful opportunities, which I am so grateful for. Like what a privilege to have just awesome things in your life where

you're like, this sounds amazing. And so I know myself so well, it's like, when you go to the bowling alley, let's talk about skyline bowling alley, and they pop the bumpers up for the children so that the ball stays in the lane. I need bumpers in my life because I am a yes girl. I am a pleaser. And so if I don't put the bumpers up, I'm going in the gutter. And so I had to create this template that I use probably on a daily basis. And it goes a little something like this. Dear Sharon, thank you so much for this incredible opportunity. I am so grateful you thought of me when you were planning this. I wanted to let you know that my response is a polite decline to your invitation, but I want you to know that this is not a reflection of the opportunity or you or the

work that you're doing. This is only a way for me to live out the values in my life in this season. I hope that in me declining, it gives you permission to also say no to the things that aren't right for you right now. And I want you to know I will be here cheering you on every step of the way. I am sure our paths will cross again in the future. Sincerely, Jenna. And I love that line and, and kind of how it's worded, because I think a lot of times we feel like when we're saying no, we're saying no to the person or their work or their project, but really we're just saying no to say yes to the right things. And when we

phrase it that way, that person doesn't take offense because it's like, if you and I did something and I was just like, Hey, Sharon, you want to like go out and get a margarita? And you're like, no, I'm like, does she hate me? Is it, is it the margarita? Is it the restaurant I chose? What is going on? But if she's like, no, because I told my family that I was not going to, you know, be away on Thursday evenings. And that's really important to me. I'm like, Oh, cool. And the other thing is, is that, and women, especially, this is a conversation I've been having a ton specifically coming out of the pandemic is that we have been taught by Disney movies, books, media, that like someone is responsible for giving us our big break, right? Like we have seen so many

women get saved over the years that a lot of us feel like if we say no, we're going to miss our big break. Yes. And it keeps us saying yes for years. And what's hilarious to me and what's sad to me at the same time is that we, as women fail to see that what has gotten us this far will carry us forward. We can make our own big breaks. Like we can pump the brakes and know where the gas pedal is. We're not idiots. We're brilliant. And so when we can rest in that and really understand that, like no one else is going to give me my big break. Yes, there could be opportunities that could transform, but if they're meant for me, they'll come back to me. It really helps us to say no without the caveats, without questioning. And for me as a mom of little

ones, I really had to say no to a lot of things, but I have still had these incredible experiences or things have circled back around in the right timing. And so I just want people to recognize that like no one else is responsible for giving you your big break. And when you can rest in the knowing of like, I can create opportunities for myself that will be in alignment with what I say matters to me. It changes the game of saying yes to the wrong things. And it helps you to say yes to the right things. I love that. You don't actually need to say yes to all of those opportunities because this might be it for me. This might be my one shot. You can make your own big break,

which both, by the way, both you and I have done for ourselves. Yes. Nobody has come along and been like, Sharon, here's your big break. This is not American Idol. People are not on American Idol. Do you know what I mean? And guess what? Carrie Underwood would probably still be Carrie Underwood without American Idol. She probably would. Yes. Well, and it's fascinating too, because I think there's this fear with momentum and I we've kind of talked about it offline a little bit, but like, there's this fear of like, if I slow down, will I become irrelevant? If I slow down, will people like find me out? Like I, you know, it's like that imposter syndrome is always like this passenger on the journey. And I think momentum is something that keeps people saying yes, because there's this fear that in the slowdown in becoming content,

we become complacent or we become irrelevant. And that is a lie that just keeps us on the hamster wheel, right? Like we can never get off then. And so it's really interesting because there was this big poll done recently and it was like, what are people struggling with the most? And it was this fear of losing momentum if they had gained success. And the other fear was just simply starting in the first place. I did notice, maybe you saw this too, that Brene Brown. It's taking like months off. I'll see you in September. I'll see you in September. And we're recording this in May. And I was like, oh my gosh, I love that so much.

and I was like, oh my gosh, I love that so much. I wish I could just do two. Yeah. And it's like, also that she didn't feel the need to like batch all of her work. Like, don't worry. The podcast was, it was like, we are halting production for me and my team, not just me. Like, it's not just reserved for me, which I think is fascinating too, in the, in the standpoint of like rest and culture and leadership and like how all of those things play down into where a lot of people find themselves, where it's like, they're working around the clock. They're not taking paid vacation there. You know, all of these things, it's just really fascinating to me, but I loved it too. And I was like, dang it, Renee, I wanted to come on your podcast. Can we just keep it running just a little bit longer? Just like one summer special episode just for me. Yeah. But I loved that. I

loved that. That's that is it's courageous to say I'm taking months off and I have trust that you will be here when I return. Yes. Feels very scary for a lot of people to think that. And I can imagine she wrestled with it for a period of time and then was like, no, I'm doing it. It's worth it. I'm pulling the trigger. And guess what? People will be there when she returns. They definitely will. Absolutely they will. What do you hope that when somebody closes this book, what do you hope their biggest takeaways are? Yeah. The subtitle of the book is finding your truth one answer at a time. And I sincerely hope that people start to trust their gut and their intuition more. It's almost like I picture a stereo and like turning down the noise of the world and turning up your own intuition.

I have a three and a half year old who runs around naked and sings frozen, like the world is watching and she is so joyful. And I'm like, I want that kind of joy in my life. And I want that kind of like reckless abandon approach to living. And I want other people to really learn how to lean into that for themselves and how to lean into those hard conversations, whether it's the ones that you have in private, when you're alone with yourself or the ones that you can have when you reach out and create that community that you desire. So my goal is just that you close the book and you just feel more

invited to show up for your life and be awake to the life that you're living today. I love that. This has been so good. It's truly a pleasure. It is lovely that we get to live near each other. Our little Scandinavian roots are so grateful. It's fun to find other people who live in the middle of nowhere like you do. And who enjoy, like you live in, you are building a house in the middle of nowhere like you do and who enjoy like you live in you

or you are building a house in the country and I moved to the country last year I don't even have any interwebs at my house and it is weird it's weird to be like I can't watch Netflix yeah but just imagine who you're going to become, Sharon. Just imagine. Apparently a gardener. I love that though. Apparently a gardener. My house came with a greenhouse.

No pressure. Don't kill all the plants. You don't need to keep up 20 years worth of perennial gardens. Absolutely not. It's fine if they all die. Um, I recently planted a bunch of seeds in my greenhouse and I had posted a picture of some of my cherry tomato plants that are growing in, in my greenhouse, in my private group. And they were like, you do know that that is enough cherry

tomato plants to grow 1 million cherry tomatoes. Like one spaghetti sauce grow 100. And who needs spaghetti sauce? I've got it. No, I did not know that. Apparently one cherry tomato plant will grow like 50 or 100 cherry tomatoes. And I have like 50 or 100 cherry tomato plants. I'm coming over. We're making caprese salads. That's right. Yes. I will cross my fingers that it works out. Yes. Thank you for doing this. I'm so excited for how are you really to just get launched into the world and for everybody to be able to read this and glean some of your hard won wisdom, Jenna. Thank you for being here. Thank you for sharing this with the world. Thanks for having me. Thank you so much for listening to the Sharon Says So podcast. I

am truly grateful for you. And I'm wondering if you could do me a quick favor. Would you be willing to follow or subscribe to this podcast or maybe leave me a rating or review? Or if you're feeling extra generous, would you share this episode on your Instagram stories or with a friend? All of those things help podcasters out so much. This podcast was written and researched by Sharon McMahon and Heather Jackson. It was produced by Heather Jackson, edited and mixed by our audio producer Jenny Snyder, and hosted by me, Sharon McMahon. I'll see you next time. Hey, Torontonians. Recycling is more than a routine. It's a vital responsibility. By recycling

properly, you help conserve resources, reduce energy use and greenhouse gas emissions, and protect the environment. Toronto's Blue Bin Recycling Program ensures the majority of the items are recovered and transformed into new products. Recycling right is important and impactful. Let's work together and make a difference because small actions lead to big change. For more tips on recycling, visit toronto.ca slash recycle right.