Here's Where It Gets Interesting - Uncomfortable Conversations with a Black Man with Emmanuel Acho

Episode Date: September 15, 2021

 In this episode, Sharon sits down for an uncomfortable conversation with bestselling author and Emmy-nominated host, Emmanuel Acho. Known for his viral web series and book, “Uncomfortable Conversations with a Black Man,” Emmanuel is no stranger to navigating difficult conversations surrounding race in the United States. Emmanuel and Sharon dive head first into topics such as white privilege, teaching our children about race and the key messages of the social justice movement. Taught with grace, wisdom and unshakeable determination, Emmanuel provides tactical ways to combat ignorance, administer justice and treat others with empathy. For more information on this episode including all resources and links discussed go to https://www.sharonmcmahon.com/podcast Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Shop holiday deals early on Amazon now. Hello, hello, hello. Hello, hello, hello. Literally beyond excited to share this interview with Emmanuel Acho with you. If you do not know who he is, where have you been? I mean, he is literally everywhere. He has a book out. He contributes to Fox Sports. He's a former NFL player. He has a very popular Instagram account. He was like hosting the finale of The Bachelor. Pretty sure he will be on Dancing with the Stars. That's just a prediction. He did not tell me that's where he will be, but probably that's where he will be someday.

Don't quote me on that. We got into some very weighty topics about race in the United States. There is a lot to unpack here. Let's dive into this conversation. I think you're really going to get a lot out of it. Can't wait for you to hear my interview with Emmanuel Acho. I'm Sharon McMahon, and welcome to the Sharon Says So podcast. Emmanuel, thank you so much. This is truly, truly, truly a pleasure. I am so grateful for your time. I know my audience is psyched to hear from you today. Sharon, it is an honor. I've just kind of seen what you've been doing across your socials and I'm glad we can connect. I want to start first of all by talking about your show and your books. Tell me about how you decided to write Uncomfortable Conversations with a Black Man. How did you decide, you know

what, it's me. I need to do it. It's a great question, Sharon. After the murder of George Floyd a little bit over a year ago now, I realized something has to be done. In Hollywood, in LA, if you're in the media Sharon, as you well know, if your team ever drops the ball, you have to say to yourself, you know what? I will do it myself because it has to get done. Now you trust that your team can do it, but if they can't do it, you have to do it yourself because it must get done. Well, after I saw George Floyd get murdered, I was like, you know what? I have to do it myself because the police officers and those in government positions, they weren't getting the job done. The current civil rights leaders, if you will, to me, the job hadn't been getting done. So I said, you know what? Let me stop delegating responsibility. Let me do it myself. I believe

that the written word has substance while the spoken word has sizzle. And I wanted to do more than just garner a lot of views and garner attention on Instagram. I wanted to leave a generational type of change. And so that is why I transformed Uncomfortable Conversations with a Black Man, the video to Uncomfortable Conversations with a Black Man, the book. I love that. I love hearing the idea that like, hey, somebody needs to do it and it has to be me. Okay, so let's have some uncomfortable conversations here. Tell me, from your perspective, tell me about what white privilege is. So let's preface with this. Emmanuel Acho, the speaker that everyone is currently listening to, has privilege. We all have to understand, we all to a degree have

privilege. I have privilege. When I used to play in the NFL, I was given a celebrity card. And this celebrity card was given to me by a certain restaurant. And with this card, Sharon, whenever I went into a restaurant, I could eat for free. Imagine that, Sharon, eating for free. Whenever you wanted, however you wanted. On the back of that card, however, though, in fine print, Sharon, if you look closely, it said, you can throw a party for up to 100 people annually sponsored by this restaurant. See, I had a privilege, special access to a restaurant because of my celebrity. All privileges is special access granted to somewhere or

immunity granted from something. I had celebrity privilege. So then what is the adjective or word that precedes the word privilege? If we're talking about white privilege, then all white privilege is saying is you have special access to certain places or special immunity from certain places, Sharon, that other people do not have. It's not saying your life has not been hard. It is saying your skin color has not contributed to the difficulty of your life. Because Sharon, so many people say, well, Emmanuel, I grew up lower class. I grew up lower middle class. My life has been hard.

How dare you say I have privilege? We're not talking about privilege. We're talking about white privilege. You can have hood privilege, special access if you grew up in the hood that other people don't have. I don't have hood privilege. If I walked through the hood,

I wouldn't have the same special access as some people that grew up in the hood have. You can have CEO privilege. You will be treated differently as a CEO than you would as a janitor. In theory, you can also have janitorial privilege because if you are amongst your like-minded group and like-minded peers, you will treat that group differently than you would treat others. But the difference is this. Hood privilege don't really do nothing for you outside the hood. I would submit janitorial privilege, if that is a word, doesn't do much for you outside of a janitorial type of room. White privilege, however, does a lot for you in a country that is still dominated by white people

and white men individually and specifically. So it's all about understanding what is white privilege so that you can take the sting and the stench off of the word. What do you say to people who are like, white privilege is a myth? That's not a thing. What would you say to somebody who's sitting at home thinking that to themselves right now? I would say just because you cannot see it does not mean it is mythological just because you can't see it. Doesn't mean it's not real. I'd say to them this analogy, Sharon,

I was driving cause I live Beverly Hills adjacent. I don't live in Beverly Hills. I live like right outside of Beverly Hills. And I was biking to this mall a couple of weeks ago. On my way to the mall, I was cruising here and I made it there in like a record time. But then on my way back, I was biking like as hard as I could and seemingly going nowhere. And the why is because on the way to the mall, I had a tailwind. On the way coming back, I was biking into a headwind. You see, the beauty of a tailwind is you don't know it's there until you have to bike into it. So what I would submit that those who say white privilege isn't real is you don't even know it's there because you've never existed without it.

See, once you have to exist without it, that is when you understand it's not real. Go to a country dominated by Black people. I go on medical mission trips to Nigeria every summer. Have a white person come with me to Nigeria. Then you'll see white privilege is real because now you're being treated like the foreigner. Now you're being treated like the stranger.

Now people are speaking in a language that's not familiar to you, and they might be talking about you, and you're like, wait a second, wait a second now. What are y'all saying? What's going on here? To a degree, that can be how Black people feel, even in corporate world. The bosses, the decision makers are speaking in a language that sure is English and we can comprehend, but what about those conversations being had at the golf course? What about those conversations being had at those private dinners and those boardroom meetings? Well, you know, we got to make sure we keep this one in the family now, John. Our fathers built this

business from the ground up. We can't lose sight of that. And it's not overtly racial communication. It's just kind of subtly influential, discriminatory communication. So what do you view as some of the biggest ways that white privilege is manifesting itself in the United States today? Is it those golf course deals? What else is it? I would say primarily, probably nepotism and cronyism. Nepotism is, you know, showing favoritism or hiring of your family. Cronyism showing favoritism or hiring of your family. Cronyism showing favoritism or hiring of your friends. I'm glad you asked because let's break this down. People are like, well, racism doesn't still exist in America. It's understandable, but you would have to understand that the wake of racism still exists. What is a wake? I grew up in Austin,

Texas and Austin, Texas has Lake Austin. If you ever are by Lake Austin, you'll see boats go by and the boats will leave a wake behind them. So while the boat is no longer present, the wake is still country. And the majority of our top flight businesses are run by white men because they were the only ones who were allowed to get an education and thus have businesses. And historically speaking, businesses make hiring and firing decisions at the highest level based upon nepotism and cronyism. You hire your family, you hire your friends. then while we may not currently and presently be racist, we have not course corrected the racism that was ever present. And it's almost like if I had, or if the listener, if you had a illness, say you had a cold, or say you had the flu, if you will, we're treating the symptoms as opposed to the illness.

And so as opposed to America actually addressing the illness, which is the root of racism, we're just like, well, we got to meet a certain quota. So let's hire more women. Right. We're not really addressing the root. And the root is foundationally when our country was built, it was built fractured. And thus, sure, we might no longer be racist, but have we course corrected the racist history? approaching the situation where let's say you're sitting in an office meeting and somebody at your place of work makes a joke that is a little racist or a lot racist. Maybe it's not super overt, but maybe there's like an undertone. What should somebody do in that situation? How would you suggest handling that? Let me flip this question on you. What's the demographic of your audience? Do you know? Yeah, the majority of my audience is white women.

Okay, beautiful. Then there's really no point in me answering this from the black perspective. Really, I should answer it from the white perspective because there's no point in me answering the question is if your audience, which is majority white women, if they make a unintentionally or intentionally racist remark, how should I respond? Really, it's how can we proactively prevent the remark from being made?

That would aid your listeners more. There is a difference between racism, racial insensitivity, and just kind of racial ignorance. Racism, racial insensitivity, racial ignorance. Let's understand there's a difference. Far too often, Sharon, in our society, we call people racist. Well, you're a racist. Well, it's hard to be something if you don't even know fully the existence of what that thing is, right? I had 12-year-olds that were with me in sixth grade and fifth grade, and they would say, oh, Emmanuel, you don't even talk like you're Black. Emmanuel, you're like an Oreo, Black on the outside, white on the inside. For me personally, it's hard to condemn those kids, those 12-year-olds as racist. I think they were racially

ignorant because they were ignorant of the fact that there are different shades and there are different communication skills and there are different ways to dress if you are Black. All Black people don't dress alike, look alike, and talk alike. So I would say that they are racially ignorant. I would not have called them racist. However, racial ignorance can play itself out in racism. And so I would just be cognizant, me talking to your listeners now, of understanding the landmines so you do not step in them and step on them. Sharon, if you were to come with me to Nigeria, again, I told you I go to Nigeria every

summer, it would behoove you, Sharon, to say, okay, Emmanuel, before we walk into a chief's house, one of the chiefs in these villages, can you tell me, should I shake his hand? Do I prostrate forward? Do I take a knee? Do I take my shoes off? Do I look them in the eye? Do I not make eye contact? Right. Because you would want to do your best to not be unintentionally offensive. Right. Yep. In the same manner, I just submit that that's what we should all do in our society. Proactively educate yourself on customs, cultures, et cetera, so you are not unintentionally offensive.

Now, all that to say, and I will answer your question, if someone were to make an unintentionally or whatever racist remark towards me, it depends on the relationship we'd have. I'd probably try to check them in private. I'll give you a story and then I'll be done with this. My dear friend, Sure. I'd probably try to check them in private. I'll give you a story and then I'll be done with this. My dear friend, a dear, dear friend of mine, white girl named Brittany.

She's maybe 28, maybe 29. We're hanging out all last summer. We're all at a friend's house pre-COVID, maybe two summers ago. And we're all sitting there, black people, white people, et cetera. Well, one of the black adults, well, they're children.

She was like two years old, climbing on a table. And my white friend Brittany said this, Sharon. She said, oh my gosh, your daughter's so cute. She's such a little monkey. Room stopped because all the black people are like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. First thing you do not refer to a black child as is a monkey. Now, Brittany didn't mean anything by it. You can call it a white baby, a monkey monkey and it's just fine. But what's the history? History of a porch monkey in regards to slavery, history of Black people being mocked as monkeys because of different physical features that they may have. In that instance, I just tried to educate all the white people there in separate conversations. I didn't condemn her because she didn't mean anything by it, but I was just like, hey, if you call the wrong black person's child a monkey who you do not have a relationship with, those are fighting words.

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How would you suggest going about educating yourself so that you can be the best community member, the best citizen, and so you don't unintentionally harm others? I think there are a plethora of ways, but if I, Emmanuel Acha, wanted to educate myself on the pain that exists during child rearing. Obviously, I could try to remember what my sixth grade, you know, anatomy class was like. Or Sharon, I could do you one better. I could read a book. I could do you one better. Maybe I watched some sort of like documentary of it all. But it would probably behoove me to talk to someone who has children and has given birth. First-hand experience, because your experience is your expertise. So I submit that my white brothers and sisters should do all. They should read the books that are out there. But remember, aside, there's a difference between an autobiography and a biography. An autobiography written by the author about the author, a biography simply

written about a person. Typically, a lot of American history is a biography, or rather, it's about white people written by white people. It's an autobiography. So it's a little skewed. If you let me tell my own story, I'm going to make it sound as good as possible. So it's not only read works, but what works are you reading? Then also, what documentaries are you watching? And then as you can, and as your Black brothers and sisters see fit, engage in dialogue like you and I are having, or listen to true dialogue like you and I are having. So you can actually hear from experiences, because again, your experience is your expertise. I love that. Did you watch the Olympics? Are you

an Olympics fan? Of course. That's my favorite time of year. What do you think about people who are using their platforms at the Olympics to protest? Do you feel like that was inappropriate? You should represent your country. What's your perspective on using your platform to promote a cause? If you're going to be disruptive, make sure you have a destination. The reason why is you don't want to start a journey and then end up undermining yourself in a route, in destination. For example, Colin Kaepernick, a name which I'm sure so many of you remember. If Colin Kaepernick knew just how much attention he was going to garner, he probably would not have worn the pig socks mocking police officers.

He probably would not have worn a Castro shirt. Kaepernick was disruptive, but he didn't necessarily know the destination. I can't necessarily fault him for it because nobody knows how much you're going to get scrutinized in the moment. Same thing with Naomi Osaka. I think she withdrew from one of the Opens and then maybe even Wimbledon. But then it's like, wait a second, Naomi, you withdrew because of the media and you didn't want to specifically do media at that point in time. But then shortly thereafter, you were on the cover of Time magazine. You were on the cover of Vogue. You had your own Netflix special. And so it looks very conflicting because the way the media works is archaic. You were so disruptive with a phenomenal, brilliant, beautiful cause. However,

you didn't necessarily go to the end. And I don't think enough people go to the end before they start at the beginning. So I applaud those who use their platform to be more than just an athlete, because that's the biggest platform. Use it. Just make sure you use it well, because there are so many people who are looking to pick apart what it is you're doing. What do we need more empathy for? People who want to be more empathetic, maybe have blind spots where they're like, I did not even realize that. Thank you for bringing that to my attention. My audience in large part does want that. They do want to be educated and empathetic.

Could you perhaps share a blind spot that you see other people having where they could work on creating more empathy? You know, what's interesting is we always use the term, if you will, blind spot, but we never actually take it a step further. We use it so freely. Oh, we have blind spots. We have blind spots,

but we never take it a step further because if you had a blind spot in your car, what would you do about the blind spot? This is not a rhetorical question. This is a serious question. You would take steps to try to mitigate against the blind spot. You'd get another mirror, you'd turn and look, you would, you know, you wouldn't just, you wouldn't just pretend it didn't exist. Those are the two answers I always submit. You do something if you got a blind spot. You look aggressively over your right and your left shoulder before you make a move or you run to your local store and you buy one of those smaller mirrors and you put it there.

You don't just acknowledge, oh, I have a blind spot. Oh, I'm going to keep driving. You make adjustments based upon the blind spot that exists. You go above and beyond to course correct the blind spot that exists. You go above and beyond to course correct the blind spot that exists. And so that's the same thing I would say is if you're Black and you know you have blind spots, you don't interact with a ton of white people, then go above and beyond like you would in your car. Maybe you should enter different small groups. Maybe you should go to different youth leagues. Maybe you should try different religious gatherings. If you're white and you know you got blind spots because the majority of your group and your friend group, et cetera, is white. Then maybe you should go above and beyond and and try to be in different spaces where there are different people of different backgrounds.

I always say this and this will make your listeners think because so many people are like, I mean, I mean, yeah, but I got some black friends here and there. So I'm good. I know the majority of listeners might be like, I mean, those other people, but me, I'm okay. I always ask this share. And I say, how many black people were at your wedding? That's what I ask white people. They're married. Cause that'll really tell you about your friend group. Like how many black people were at your wedding? And they start to go, no, I mean, that'll tell you about who is closest to you about your friend group like how many black people were at your wedding and they start i mean that'll tell you about who is closest to you in your rolodex what blind spots do i think exist we'd have to spend the rest of the podcast on it i mean there there are little ones though i mean for example like black women and their hair and i'm understanding like black women's hair and

how it works and a black woman who can't just jump into a pool and get out of it or get her hair wet because of uh her hair and and and how coarse it may or may not be how how they the products they use in like black men and why they wear do rags the things you see in hip-hop videos on their head it's not because they're hood or gangsters or thugs or whatever you might think it is. It's because it lays your hair down, which allows you to create a certain style as a black man. Those are blind spots. So now when you see a black man with what is called a do-rag on, rather than being like, oh, he might be dangerous. It's like, oh no, he's just trying to do X, Y, or Z with a hairstyle. And that's just talking about something as small as hair.

So, I mean, there's so, so, so. There's no end. No. But the only reason there's no end is because we haven't taken the intentional steps to mitigate the blind spots. Once you buy the little mirror, yeah, you still got some blind spots. You're more equipped to handle them. So once you expose yourself as a Black person to white people, as a white person to Black people, sure, you might still have blind spots, but you're more equipped to handle them. What do you think we should be teaching our children, both at home

and in schools, about race? We're referencing white people, correct? Because there are two different answers. Yeah. If we, as a white audience, and again, there are people of color in my audience, absolutely, but you're going to have a different answer for somebody who their child is the only Black child in elementary school, very different experience than being in a predominantly white environment. What should we be teaching our children? That's a good question. I mean, it's easy to just be like, well, don't be racist. Don't discriminate on the basis of color. Let me say this. Firstly, what are you teaching yourself? You can only teach from a place of knowledge. And I'm not convinced that our adults truly know what they

need to know about race in America. Remember, it was no more than, I think it was 19, somebody fact-check me, I'm going to say 1967, Loving vs. Virginia. And that is when finally it was no longer federally outlawed to be in an interracial relationship like y'all that wasn't a long time ago no what are we teaching ourselves i think parents and listeners i will challenge you far too often we use our children as a scapegoat well they're not ready to listen they're not ready i mean they're too young to have these i mean she's only nine i can't talk to her about this just yet when in all honesty we're not ready. I mean, they're too young to have these conversations. I mean, she's only nine. I can't talk to her about this just yet. When in all honesty, we're not ready to have the conversation just yet. Before we teach our children anything with our words, our actions. Sharon, my coach used to tell me, your actions speak so loud, I can't hear what

you're telling me. See, we have to remember more is caught than is taught as parents. More is caught than is taught. Don't More is caught than is taught. Don't tell your child, well, make sure you befriend all the black and brown boys and girls at school. If your children have never seen you invite a black or brown person over for dinner, don't tell your children, make sure you're nice to all the girls and all the boys at school. If you yourself don't have a diverse friend group. More is caught than is taught. Now, with words, I think teach them the truth of America. And I said this when I hosted The Bachelor after The Final Rose. History is meant to be remembered, but not all history is meant to be celebrated.

And so teach them the truth of history in America because their school courses may not, right? You may grow up and hear that the Civil War was about Southern pride. The Civil War was largely about slavery. Now, sometimes we say Southern pride because it makes us feel better. But no, the Civil War was largely about economy. And it was largely about, well, who was keeping the economy churning for white people in the South. It's black people in their free labor. So making sure that your children are adequately educated. And don't just take for granted that like, well, the school's gonna teach them history. Don't just take for granted

that it's all gonna be taken care of by somebody other than you. Of course not, because I think that just because you have a title doesn't mean you're qualified. And that's in any profession and that's in any line of work. Several social media directors in this day and age that aren't qualified to run social media. Just because you're a teacher don't necessarily make you qualified to be a teacher.

I mean, several parents listening are much better suited to educate their children than the educators of their children. educators of their children. So just like I said, you know what, I have to do it myself. You have to make sure that you are doing it as well as long as the job gets done. We have to be responsible for our own children and we have to make sure that the job is completed. Bingo. Yes, I love that. Tell me more about how you view the current social justice climate. What is going well and where do you feel like, wow, this has gone off the rails, if anything? I don't think that anything has truly gone off the rails. I think at this point, those who are willing to listen have begun to lend their ears. And those who are willing to stay ignorant have begun to close their ears. I think that prejudice is a willful commitment to ignorance. I've heard that

quote. Prejudice is a willful commitment to ignorance. At this point in time in our country, you would have to be willfully committed to ignorance to not understand what is going on in society. And so I'm proud of where we are. I think that there are so many different approaches to social understanding and racial reconciliation. I just hope that people always pay attention to the message and not necessarily the tone. Sharon, I'll give you an anecdotal story. I graduated from the number one private school in Texas in high school, St. Mark's School of Texas, an all-boys school.

We wore uniform. I go to the University of Texas to play football. Now I'm at like this huge university, et cetera, with these crazy coaches. And Sharon, my coach, Will Muschamp, he told me this on like the first day of practice. He said, listen to the message, not the tone, because he would be dog cussing everybody

out. F this, F that, da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da. Make sure you keep contained. What he meant was, make sure you keep contained. All the expletives that were laced around the phrase were irrelevant. So there are a lot of Black and brown people as it pertains to social justice. They're upset. And because they're upset, they are speaking in a manner that is highly righteously angry. Even when you see the protests, ask yourself, why are people protesting? for the most part, burn things down and throw rocks in buildings. It's not all Black people that are doing it, by the way. And for the most part, it's not even the people that are actually a part of a proper movement. But even as it pertains to peaceful protests, why are people protesting? Why are athletes taking a knee during the national anthem? It's not because they feed her. It's not because they're tired. so even if you don't agree with the tone what is the message what would you say to people who are upset about the summer of 2020

and the buildings that were damaged, the fires, the riots. What would you say to somebody who is like, yes, but all of those violent things happened and I cannot get on board with that? If you look for an out, you'll find one. I tell this story when I was 12 years old, I was getting ready for school, and all of a sudden, I hear my mother screaming. I come outside of my room, and she's throwing herself into a wall. I'm freaking out. Why the heck is my mom throwing herself into a wall? It was then that my dad told me my mom's sister had died. See, as you process the five stages of grief, you come across a stage called anger. And anger isn't necessarily fully rational. It doesn't make any sense for my mom to be

throwing herself into a wall, but sometimes your emotions cannot control themselves. So the question is not, you're throwing yourself into a wall. I can't help you. The question is why? What has led you to this point of heartbreak and devastation? So to those listeners or my white brothers and sisters that would be, I can't get past that. The question is why? Well, what has led people in society to a point of protesting? Ask yourself the why. Let's not talk about the outcome. Let's talk about the problem. Let's not talk about the symptoms. Let's talk about the illness. Because the problem at hand is a symptom, rioting, protesting, et cetera. But what is the illness? The illness is right. If we can cure the illness, then we don't have to sit here and worry at all about the

symptoms. That's so well said. If we can cure the underlying illness, then the symptoms are a non-issue. Exactly. All right. I have two more questions for you. These are from my son who was like, oh, I have a whole list of questions. He texted me a bunch of questions he wanted me to ask you.

And I just picked two. He was very interested about your work in Nigeria. questions. He texted me a bunch of questions he wanted me to ask you, and I just picked two. He was very interested about your work in Nigeria, and he is wondering, what can we do to help the international community? What, from your perspective, is somebody sitting at home who's like, I would really like to lend a hand? What is the best thing we can do? Yeah. So firstly, like I said, I go to Nigeria with 40 doctors and nurses annually prior to COVID with Living Hope Ministries, livinghopeministries.us, if y'all want to check it out. We built a hospital about three years ago, my family and I, in a rural village of Nigeria. It took us nine years of fundraising to do.

But annually, we do roughly like $2 million in free medical care. What can people do over here? I would always say, get your hands dirty, literally. Like if you haven't been on a missions trip, or if you haven't gone overseas and seen the depths of poverty, the depths of need, get your hands dirty. And get your hands dirty as you see fit. Because I always say, make sure you take care of home before you go take care of somebody else's home. You know? So if you've got people protesting and writing in your own neighborhoods,

make sure y'all are at peace before you go try to tend to somebody else's peace, um, but do something. And so that would probably be my levels and layers of advice. Mm-hmm. The answer is never to do nothing. The answer is always to do something. It doesn't have to be raised $100 million. It doesn't have to be become the next Jeff Bezos, but you don't get a pass to do nothing. This is the other question my son wanted to know. If you could beam a message into everybody's phone, everyone in the United States' phone right now, they were going to get a message from you. What would the message be? What would you want everybody to look at their phone and be like, dang, but no pressure, but no pressure.

Um, I've never actually been asked that question. I think I'm going to steal it from your son. How old is your son? 19. Phenomenal question. Um, man. Wow. I would probably say you are loved and make sure you love others so they can feel the love too. Probably what I would say. I would probably say you are loved and make sure you love others so they can feel the love too. Probably what I would say. I would first just say you are loved so people feel noticed and then make sure you love others so they can feel the love too. Just reminding people that they're loved and they're cared about and to love others. But you have to know the way in which others want to be loved. That's probably what I would say. you have to know the way in which others want to be loved. That's probably what I would say.

I love that. By the way, congratulations on being nominated for an Emmy. How does that feel? How does that feel? Life is crazy. Honestly, the primetime Emmy I'm most excited about. We had the two bestselling books and we won the sports Emmy, but the primetime Emmy nomination is, it's humbling. It's humbling. What are you going to do to celebrate if you win? Uh, win. That's what I'm going to do to celebrate. If you don't, if you don't, the fun isn't winning. Spoken like a true competitor. You have to be a little bit competitive to be a professional. This has been truly a pleasure. I absolutely know that everybody who was listening today is going to turn this off and be like, I need to listen to that again. There's stuff I need to

rehear. So thank you so much for being the person to step up and just being like, listen, the work must be done and it has to be done by me. to step up and just being like, listen, the work must be done and it has to be done by me. Thank you. Sharon, it was an honor. And I'm just glad that I can be able to speak in these spaces. And like you said, and like you've talked about my books, uncomfortable conversation with the black band, but also I'm writing a book just about taking the limits off of your life called illogical with Oprah. And that will come out in January. So be on the lookout for that, but yeah, it's been an honor and hopefully we talk again soon. I would love that. Thank you so much. Thank you so much for listening to the Sharon says so podcast. I am truly grateful for you. And I'm

wondering if you could do me a quick favor, would you be willing to follow or subscribe to this podcast or maybe leave me a rating or review, or if you're feeling extra generous, would you share this episode on your Instagram stories or with a friend? All of those things help podcasters out so much. I cannot wait to have another mind blown moment with you next episode. Thanks again for listening to the Sharon Says So podcast.