Here's Where It Gets Interesting - Why Texas Can’t Secede with Sharon McMahon

Episode Date: August 9, 2021

In this solo episode of Sharon Says So, Sharon breaks down one of her most asked questions - what’s the deal with Texas, and can they really secede? Rooted in the United States Constitution, Sharon will explain the fundamental law of the land and how Texas is bound to these laws through its own state Constitution. A few myths are debunked throughout the episode - going back to the origin of the state in 1845 and the creation of its own state constitution. She shares the four reasons why this cannot happen, and why Texas doesn’t really want to secede anyway - Texas will always be The Lone Star State, no matter what. For more information on this episode including all resources and links discussed go to https://www.sharonmcmahon.com/podcast Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Dairy Farmers of Ontario, from our families to your table, everybody milk. Visit milk.org to learn more. Hello friends, welcome. Welcome to this most special episode, which is about a question that I have been asked many, many times. And what people want to know is, can Texas secede from the union? I have four reasons why they cannot secede, and then a couple of other points to consider, reasons that demonstrate they don't actually really want to secede. So let's get into it. Let's get into why Texas can't secede.

I'm Sharon McMahon, and welcome to the Sharon Says So podcast. This notion that Texas, or frankly any state, can secede is something that continues to come up over and over, both on my Instagram account, in discussions in the media. And so I just thought it warranted a little bit of a deeper dive, a little bit more of a discussion into the actual legalities of a state wanting to leave the union. So let's establish one thing first, which is that we have the United States Constitution, which is the supreme law of the land. There is something in the Constitution called the Supremacy supremacy clause. Article six specifically says this constitution shall be the supreme law of the land. And so that means that every state must abide by the United States constitution. There are no states that have special privileges

where they get to override portions of the U.S. Constitution. Not Texas, not Idaho, not Maine, no other states. In addition, the Texas Constitution, which by the way, I read in its entirety, it's a long one. It is one of the longest constitutions in the country. The Texas Constitution says at the very beginning, Texas is a free and independent state subject only to the Constitution of the United States. So you have both the federal government via the U.S. Constitution asserting their rights as the supreme law of the land, and you also have front and center Texas saying we are subject to the United States Constitution. So both the Constitution of the United States and the Constitution of Texas understand their symbiotic relationship with one another.

Post-Civil War, Texas actually did attempt to secede. They did not want to pay some of their Civil War debts, and they held a vote. They said, who would like to secede from the union? And the majority of Texans voted yes, we would like to secede. This case went all the way up to the Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court decided in a case called Texas versus White, you can look up this case if you'd like to, that Texas does not have the right to secede. Here are some of the things that they said in their Supreme Court decision. When Texas became one of the United States, she entered into an indissoluble relation. And that means indissoluble just means it cannot be dissolved. The union between Texas and other states was as complete, as perpetual, and as indissoluble as the union between the

original states. There were no plans for reconsideration or revocation. So the Supreme Court also says Texas cannot secede. And they also went on to say that when Texas voted to secede, those votes were absolutely null. It specifically said the state did not cease to be a state nor her citizens to be citizens of the union. So this sets up this idea that Texas tried to secede. They specifically asserted their secession. The United States Supreme Court said, number one, you can't do that. Number two, your attempt to do that was unsuccessful. You did not ever cease to be a state, nor did the citizens cease to be citizens of the union.

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New York City, and I'm writing to see if you might be willing to assist me in a project that involves a unique constitutional issue. My latest screenplay is a comedy about Maine seceding from the United States. There are parts of the story that deal with the legality of such an event, and of course, a big showdown in the Supreme Court is part of the story. At the moment, my story is a 12-page treatment. As an architect turned screenwriter, it's fair to say that I come up a bit short in the art of Supreme Court advocacy. I would appreciate your thoughts. And he received a letter back from one sitting Supreme Court Justice, Antonin Scalia. This was in 2006, and Scalia has since passed away. This is what his letter in

return said to Daniel Turkowitz. I'm afraid I cannot be of much help with your problem, principally because I cannot imagine that such a question could ever reach the Supreme Court. To begin with, the answer is clear. If there was any constitutional issue resolved by the Civil War, it is that there is no right to secede. He then goes on to talk about the intricacies of the law and who would be parties to the lawsuit, et cetera. But that sentence has really stuck with me. If there is any constitutional issue resolved by the Civil War, it's that there's no right to secede. So we have both the Constitution saying we are supreme, the Texas Constitution saying

the United States Constitution is supreme. You have the Supreme Court saying you can't secede. And you also have a Supreme Court justice updating this thinking in 2006 that the Civil War settled the notion that no state can secede. Let's move on to the next question I get asked, which is, is it permissible for Texas to break itself up into five states? And this goes back to the Act of Congress that was passed when Texas was admitted into the Union in 1845. The Act of Congress that admitted Texas to the Union says new states of convenient size, not exceeding four in number, may be formed out of the territory and shall be entitled to

admission under the provisions of the federal constitution. One of the other things that this act says is that the new states that could be formed from Texas, meaning if Texas, being this very large state geographically, would like to break up into smaller states, if that is permitted, those states will be on equal footing with the existing states. All right, so that is what the act of Congress that admitted Texas to the Union in 1845 said. It specifically says in the Act that they will be admitted under provisions of the federal Constitution. And the Constitution says how new states shall be admitted. It's in Article 4 of the U.S. Constitution. It says specifically that

Congress needs to approve their admission. The act that admitted Texas in 1845 also, as I mentioned, says that the new states would be on equal footing with the existing states, which means they would not receive any special treatment. They're on equal footing. So if Texas did want to break up into several smaller states, it would need Congress's permission. And it would also have to comply with the other constitutional requirement of having the permission of the states that surround it. And that is because no state boundaries can be changed without the permission of both Congress and all of the states involved in that border change. So if Texas wanted to change its borders with New Mexico, with Louisiana, Oklahoma, etc., it would also need the permission of those states. Is it theoretically possible that Texas could

decide it would like to become a number of smaller states. It is theoretically possible, but it would just require the prior approval of Congress, along with the prior approval of all of the states whose boundaries will be changed. So think about it this way. If you break up into West Texas, East Texas, North Texas, Central Texas, South Texas, and suddenly the state that borders New Mexico is called West Texas, well, that is a change in boundary. That was not New Mexico's original boundary. So New Mexico would need to approve that change in addition to Congress. So then let's move on to the reasons why Texas doesn't actually want to secede. There's a large variety of reasons, but one of them is 148,000 federal employees. So if Texas wanted

to secede and become its own country, those 148,000 people would be out of jobs. Additionally, there are 3 million acres of federal land inside the state of Texas that would either need to be purchased from the United States or some kind of gift would need to happen and it's very unlikely that that would occur. So they would then need to have the tax revenue to purchase 3 million acres of land. 1.5 million Texans work at the various ports contained within Texas, the airports and the seaports. If those ports were no longer ports of entry into the United States, if the seaports would no longer be delivering goods to the United States, but instead to a different country, those ports and those airports are going to see very different conditions. They

are going to see very likely a large drop in the amount of shipments, in the amount of flights, and you'd be looking at a significant impact to the Texas economy, both in terms of jobs and also in terms of the money that is flowing into the state of Texas. The national borders of Texas would need to change, and Texas would then have to police the borders of Louisiana, Arkansas, Oklahoma, New Mexico, and the country of Mexico. Additionally, there are 15 United States military bases contained in the state of Texas. All of that would need to be dealt with. The fact that you would then have a foreign government occupying 15 military bases within your own state,

that is a formidable obstacle. There are more reasons as well, but I would hypothesize that Texas actually enjoys being one of the largest states. It enjoys being one of the largest states both from a population standpoint, because it has a significant amount of political influence, and it enjoys being one of the largest states from a geographical standpoint, because they can fit 29 million people living in their state. So, quick recap. Texas can't secede because the United States Constitution does not give them permission to, and the Texas Constitution acknowledges that they are subject to the U.S. Constitution. The Supreme Court says, no, it's not permissible.

No state can leave the Union. The Union is indissoluble. And additionally, the Supreme Court updated their thinking, or at least recommitted their thinking in 2006, that the Civil War says no state can secede. And additionally, Texas doesn't really want to secede. So am I saying that nobody in Texas wishes to become their own independent country? Of course not. There are people who feel that way, I have no doubt. But will it ever really happen?

No, because it's not a thing. I hope this helps. I hope you found this useful and let me know if you have questions. Thank you so much for listening to the Sharon Says So podcast. I am truly grateful for you. And I'm wondering if you could do me a quick favor. Would you be willing to follow or subscribe to this podcast or maybe leave me a rating or a review? Or if you're feeling extra generous, would you share this episode on your

Instagram stories or with a friend? All of those things help podcasters out so much. I cannot wait to have another mind blown moment with you next episode. Thanks again for listening to the Sharon Says So podcast.