Heroes in Business - Carter Wilcoxson, Reverse Mortgages A Secret Weapon For Financial Planning

Episode Date: September 18, 2022

To learn how to choose the correct product, use the proceeds, and model a reverse mortgage through your current financial planning software, please contact Christian Mills at: 720.984.6622, on this episode of The Health and Wealth Podcast Show. 

Welcome to the Health and Wealth Podcast with your hosts, Tim and Carter. What's trending, enrichers? Carter Wilcox, founder of CSI Financial Group here with my co-host and former wealth advisor, Tim James, founder of? Tim James, founder of ChemicalFreeBody.com and your new health advisor. This is the show where we reveal the connection between physical and financial abundance. Hey, welcome back, enrichers. Carter Wilcoxon coming to you live slash recorded. Coming from warm, sunny, 100 and almost 10 degree Phoenix, Arizona today. It is our summertime here in Phoenix, which I'm so thankful that it does get that hot because otherwise, if everybody found out how nice it actually gets here in the wintertime, we might be even bigger than the 4 million population that we have here in Phoenix, Arizona. But as always, I am joined by my fantastic chemical-free body himself, co-host, Mr. Tim James.

Tim, how are you, my man? Dude, I'm doing really good, buddy. Doing really good. I don't want to scare everybody off, but I've been working on my health for a long time. I just did a five-day water fast, and the coolest part was I was up in Portland. I left, came home, and then a couple days later started the fast, came back, and it was actually my guitar instructor, Jeremiah. And the first words out of his mouth were like, dude, you look younger.

What did you do? And I was like, water fasting, baby. Powerful stuff, guys. Three-day water fast is a complete immune system reset. So just put that back in your file that away because someday you can work your way towards that. It's pretty powerful medicine. Yeah, that's pretty awesome.

Well, I'm super excited about our guest today, Christian Mills, who is coming to us from the Denver area. And Christian is with a company called RMF, Reverse Mortgages reverse mortgage funding funding yes i couldn't remember it's fine financial funding okay um and it's a very unique industry that you're in and we're we're very interested i know that our enrichers are definitely going to be interested in hearing what it is that you do because you also head up the financial advisor division for rmf is that correct that is correct sir yes yeah fantastic well we'll get into

that in the second segment and everything but uh as is pretty traditional around here on the uh and again richards thank you for joining us for another episode of the health and wealth podcast but as is traditional what we like to do is we want to find out, and our enrichers want to hear a little bit about how you got to where you're at today, right? So let's go back in your early career, or maybe it was college, whatever it might have been, the exposure, the influencers that you had that got you into where you're at today in the reverse mortgage business? You know, I've been, I'm fascinated by behavioral finance, Carter and Tim. This is something that doesn't matter how, you know, if you measure your, you're measuring wealth by money or by your health standards or whatever, but how we interact with the things around us and money is one of those things, at least in Western society, that we have to have.

We trade money for things and we trade our time to get money. Right. So it's an interesting concept to me. And I've always kind of been fascinated by it. I certainly grew up in the Beaver Cleaver household. You know, mom and dad, dad worked home, stayed home. I got an older brother, but they were my parents. Both were raised on farms that they didn't own. Right. So kind of because sugar cropping or something in some circles. And we were raised to be, you know, to to pay our debts, but to also save money and not to spend more than we made. And just, you know, that didn't seem like a hard thing for me to do. But when I got into later stages in life, early adulthood, you know, I saw people with credit card debt and things of that nature.

I had my first, you know, W-2 job at 14 back when you had to go get your your Social Security number. Carter, you might remember that. Yeah. You had to go get a Social Security number when you got it, when you got a paycheck job. And that started early. It was just reinforced at an early age to save money. Even did paper out for a little bit, but mowed lawns, shoveled snow, did all those kind of things and saved money. And it was one of those things I was interested in. Kind of took a winger after college and was in the ski industry for for a number of years, the better part of a decade. And then when I got into going back to school, I went back we, we left the pension system in America in the sixties and seventies and eighties because they became very expensive,

right? Cause people live longer and healthcare becomes more and more expensive. And then we, we started with the ERISA, the employee retirement income security act of 1974. And that's what brought rise to the 401k field. And we just said, you need to start saving for yourself. And we didn't really give people and this is the collective we there is i'm not pointing a finger at any person or entity so to speak you know but my first 401k had 93 choices in it and i was you know 29 years old 30 years old and didn't know what to do with that consequently, I spun my wheels for a number of years, but I worked in the 401 industry for a long time, for better over a decade, telling people how to maximize their plan and talking to plan participants, talking to financial advisors that specialize in that field.

And it just kind of, now we've added some automatic features. If this last congressional act, the secure 2.0, we've added things like automatic enrollment, automatic escalation, auto auto investing to help people who because most of us don't know how to invest. I personally don't source all that to a financial advisor because I don't want to pay attention to what I have invested in. And I sleep great at night because I don't look and see what happens to the market every day. That doesn't that doesn't really interest me. So my interest is how people can prepare for retirement. You know, at some point I decided I'm too old. I'm not going to make it. I'm not going to be an astronaut. I'm not going to be a firefighter. So how can I have a meaningful life that that helps me sleep good at night and feel like I'm contributing to the to the greater good. And if I can help people in America have a have a better retirement and retire with with dignity without being scared of running out of money, then then, you know,

I think I'm adding something to society. So, yeah, well, that that's that that's a very extensive background. And when we spoke originally prior to you making the decision, and thanks again for coming on and being a guest on our show and everything. And this is, by the way, another first tip, James, our very first reverse mortgage organization that we've ever had on the podcast. So we love having first on here. So thank you. Let me say this, Carter, too, because if anybody's listening and they're thinking about tuning out because of reverse mortgages, you should really hold on to this because what ended up happening was when I was in the mortgage industry, I actually started doing reverse mortgages. I did them for three years before I exited and became a financial advisor. And what I found out was is that most people are completely clueless to what they really are. I mean, completely clueless. They are a financial tool. And for the right situation, they can be game changing, life changing, like unbelievable stuff, like save people's homes,

save their quality of life, you know, get stuff done, allow them to do what they need to do. So I hope just stick around to the end because I'm sure Christian and I will get into it and we'll kind of uncover what they really are and how you could use them. Because what I used to do, Carter, is I used to have people, I was doing seminars, reverse mortgage seminars, and just educating people because that's usually what people need. They need education, right? And then I was trying to explain it to financial advisors and CPAs and accountants and some other people that I thought might be able to send me referrals like long-term care insurance agents. Their garbage is our gold and then we can hand them back to clients and then all of a sudden

they get those policies written. So it can be a symbiotic relationship for those of you out there that are long-term care policy writers. You want to hook up with a really good reverse mortgage person. But we can get more into it. But the whole point was, is I had these people, I started just inviting these professionals to come hear me talk. And by the end of the talk, they were completely sold and they're like, oh my God, I can't believe this. And they wanted to do business with me. So it's an easy way if you're a reverse mortgage person and you're doing seminars, you should be inviting every financial planner and just educating professionals while you're doing your talks to the to your potential client base. I want to kind of go back to what you were talking about earlier and share a little bit more on how you were working with those RPAs, right? Those retirement plan advisors when you were doing, you know, something.

Because I know from your bio, you're doing some, you know, some custodial work and working for a trust company and IRA custody and all that. It's a very unique, you know, arena in and of itself. So talk a little bit more about how you work with those retirement plan advisors. So, yeah, you know, I worked for a, well, for a trust company, and we had a division that just worked with retirement plans, mostly 401ks, and then 403bs, and I won't get into all the minutiae of that. But people that are institutional advisors are, they advise on a plan. And sometimes they will advise on the plan based on the industry. You know, if you have, you know, different groups of people where you have highly compensated employees, and then people that don't

make as much, you need to make the plan more fair. So, you know, the government has tried to make the 401k the be all end all. And it's, it's a great tool. It certainly is. But people have to participate in it first to, you know, to make this happen. So my job, you know, I'm trying to move the participation needle from maybe 85% to 86%. And I never really, I never saw what happened. I never talked to the people that much, even though I would be in front of them saying you need to contribute.

And if you contribute 6%, the company will give you another three percent. And, you know, here's how to maximize your savings. And, you know, that that was all fine and good. But I never really saw the end result, you know. And and actually, I used to kind of make fun of the reverse mortgage industry, Tim. And I'm sure you are familiar with that. It was, I thought it was stealing grandma's house. I don't know why I, why I thought that I gathered that from the ether. And then in 2012, I went to work for the financial planning association. And that is a,

that's the organization that kind of provides content and, and lobbies on behalf of certified financial planners. And that very year, they published three articles about reverse mortgages and how you could use it to fund long-term care, Tim, and also to have the standby line of credit. And these were people that I knew of in the industry, people like Dr. Wade Fowle, Harold Levinsky, John Salter. These people are well-known in the financial planning space. And I was like, huh. And they published three articles about that that year. And the Journal of Financial Planning is an academic peer reviewed journal. They don't take advertorials.

It is it is held in to a high. It's held to a high bar. Let's put it that way. And I started to get interested in it. And there was, you know, I worked with several companies and I started to learn more and more about it. And for most of America, the home is is our largest asset. I mean, there's no denying that. If you look at it from a static standpoint and still we get to the wealthiest five percent of Americans, the home makes up at least half, if not two thirds of their net worth. the home makes up at least half, if not two thirds of their net worth. You know, and the other thing that people would kind of look down their nose at is you need to make sure that you choose correctly with social security. I'm not a financial planner myself, but I just, I've been in this business for a quarter century now. So I look at it and

I say, you need to, these are some kind of blocking and tackling when it comes to financial planning. But if the home is that is worth that much, and it's even if you pay it off the American dream, right, you pay off your home, it still has a it still has a line item in retirement, you still have to pay your property taxes, you still have to pay your insurance, you have to do upkeep. If a hailstorm happens in Colorado, you have to replace the roof, and that sort of thing. So how do we utilize the home? How do we add a liquidity component to that? And come to find out, you know what the, the much mind and misunderstood reverse mortgage is a great way to do that.

So, so I came 180 degrees. I'm a convert. Don't get me going to cocktail parties because I will, I will bore everybody there talking, talking to him about it. But I had a change of, I had a change of heart. I actually left the Financial Planning Association to go work for RMF. I had to get a mortgage license. I didn't have any background in it. I just, I knew a lot about it. And I see it as an underutilized tool. And, you know, down the road here now, I joined in 2017. Here, all of a sudden, now we've got we've got a market that's in flux, homes that are, you know, the highest value that they've ever been.

And, you know, consequently, we also have the highest homeownership rates for Americans 65 and above, because this is an age based. You have to be a certain age, right, to do a reverse mortgage, whether it's a government backed or proprietary. You have to reach, you know, a couple of birthday milestones to make that happen. And it's, you know, people are starting to pay attention to this now because they honestly some of it is because they have to. They can't not they can't look aside at, you know, at a home that's worth five or six hundred thousand dollars. If you're a financial advisor, at least you shouldn't be doing that. So. Yeah. Well, so speaking of home values right it's it's interesting uh i was just um on a uh a vetting call with a with another advisor from

bozeman montana and he shared with me that the median home value of a three-bedroom two-bath house in bozeman montana is 865 000 yeah. And I was like, that's crazy. So as you were talking earlier, you know, about, you know, the home is half to two-thirds, you know, your biggest asset that you've got. Well, that's exponentially true over the last, what, eight to 18 months on reviews across the board, right? I mean, it's nuts what's going on around here in Phoenix. And, you know, Tim, he's in the middle of his parents' house

and doing a rebuild or adding on to his parents' home. So I'm sure he can speak to that a little bit. Yeah, it's not cheap. Things are completely out of control. it's not cheap things are things are completely out of control and you know from on a deeper level it's i just see this as a this is the end of a long process that like you know um that working class people are up against you know our wages have been since the 70s they've been getting crushed and decimated and you know somebody making fifty thousand dollars today based on gdp growth from 1970 till today should be making about $120,000.

So where'd that $70,000 go? Well, it went up river to elites. You know, during the COVID shutdown, the 600 billionaires doubled their net worth. And, you know, 74% of Americans have $400 in savings. So now costs are going up, building material costs, supply chain delays. I think it's all, I mean, I know it's all a coordinated effort. So working class people got to get, you know, but there's going to be lots of opportunities opening up too. Like if widgets aren't being made in China, then somebody could open up a machine shop here in La Grande, Oregon,

start banging out widgets and start shipping them. You know what I mean? And there's opportunity all over the place right now. So I think it's a really good time for working class people and entrepreneurs to step up and start taking back the reins of everything. You know, Tim, I'm glad you brought that up because also what draws me to this is we have a lot of financial advisors and people that want to work with high net worth clients. I know you were an advisor in the past and ultra high net worth. And I'm sure you had peers that said, I only work with people with a million dollars or above or whatever.

The reverse mortgage really is geared toward the massive fluent. And some of my colleagues would probably say, no, you can do a reverse and you can. You can do a reverse on a house that's worth 10 million dollars. But, you know, the bulk of the heavy lifting where this is really intended is for the massive loan for people with a million bucks or less in investable assets. And we're converting a formerly illiquid asset, giving it some form of liquidity. And, you know, we'll get into it later, but you don't lose the house. You're not signing anything over. The kids can still get the home if they want it, all those sort of things. So this is what draws me to it as well is lots

of people want to work with the very wealthy. And we have programs for people that can't or won't or do whatever that are below the poverty level. What about nurses and teachers and construction managers and policemen, people like that? Working class men and women. Yeah. And if they follow the American dream and they, you know, and they bought a home and they have the picket fence or they don't pick a fence, a barbed wire fence or whatever, they can utilize their home to, you know, to have a secure retirement. Yeah. It's awesome. It's a really good tool. So let's do this guys.

We'll take a quick break and we get back. Let's just dive into it and we'll, we'll kind of cut through a reverse mortgage is what they are, what they're not. And we'll be right back. Estate planning. What does that even mean? When the inevitable happens for everyone on this planet, your estate plan kicks into action. But first, let's start with what an estate is.

An estate is simply everything you own. Now, here's the issue and what needs to be understood when this event occurs. You only have two choices on this plan. Number one, either you plan how your estate gets handed out and distributed to those you leave behind, or number two, your state decides who gets everything you own. For the first time ever, you can now take complete and total control of this plan that you've been deprived of for most of your life and generations before you. You can now take complete and total control of this plan that you've been deprived of for most of your life and generations before you. You can get personalized assistance along the way with a team of specialists whose job it is to make sure you have true peace of mind. It's important to understand that estate planning is a journey and rest assured that our team will be available to you all along the way and at every step.

and rest assured that our team will be available to you all along the way and at every step. Welcome to eState Plan, home of the last estate plan you'll ever need. To learn more, make sure to reach out to your local advisor licensed with us, or go to our website for more information. What's up, Enrichers? Tim James here. I'm back with my co-host, Carter Wilcox. And today in the house, we have Christian Mills. And Christian, we were just starting to already get into like what reverse mortgages are and what they aren't. So let's just, that's what this segment will be and anything else you want to chat about. So again, you know, I did reverse mortgage seminars myself for a few years prior to getting into the financial services industry. I educated a lot of other business professionals on it.

And it was like, dude, one after another after another. It was the same thing. As soon as the seminar was, excuse me, what's going on there? As soon as the seminar was over, they would walk up to me like, and I'd get done talking to all the clients. They're like, dude, or sir, oh, this is. And these reverse mortgages, I had no idea. All of them were just blown away because they'd finally gotten the education on what it really was. And they never really understood it. So let's just get into it.

Like what do you think is the – well, I'll just tell you. The first thing is people think that they're going to take your home. Yes. The bank's going to steal your home. So why don't you explain to them how they're protected with mortgage insurance? Number one myth is that you're signing in the bank, you're signing your home over to the bank and you're not any more than you do with a forward mortgage, which you don't. A mortgage, whether it's reverse or a traditional forward mortgage is a lien against the property. The property is there to make sure that you pay the debt against it.

So when you buy a house, most people don't, let's say it's a $500,000 house and you're able to put $100,000 down. You have 400,000. I'll keep the math very simple. The house is there to secure. If you stop making those payments, they'll come back and take it. The reverse is, is kind of the same way. You still have a lien against the property. And it is to say, okay, when you leave the home, right, and a reverse mortgage comes due when there's a maturity event. So when you sell the house, when you pass away, when you have to leave and go to assisted

living or something like that, then the house is sold and the debt is paid. And then any remaining funds would go to heirs or to that owner of the house, et cetera. But by far the number one thing that people still think, Tim, is that the bank somehow owns your home and they don't. It's a lien against the property and in the first position.

So that's it. Yeah, and it might be like when they take out a loan and maybe they take an income stream. So like a reverse mortgage is kind of like what it says. So instead of the balance slowly going down, the balance will slowly accrue. And if that person dies and they take a look at it and the house is now worth, you know, three hundred thousand and they owe five hundred. Well, they did really good financially. Okay, number one, right? Because they were able to get $500,000 basically out of a $300 value at that point in time. But the mortgage insurance premium that they pay in the loan fee,

which typically when I was doing it was 2% to HUD. Is it still the same? Yeah, the same. Yeah, it's a 2% loan fee. So if they did a $500,000 loan, it's a $10,000 fee. But what that is, is that then that goes into a pool and then the HUD gets paid or HUD then pays the bank the difference for whatever the loss is when they actually do sell the home. So it protects the bank. It protects the people.

It's a non-recourse loan, which means that children are not going to be hurt if there is more owing on it than what the value is. than what the value is. But in a lot of cases, there's still equity in there and maybe one of the kids wants to buy the house or refinance it and live in it, or they all sell it and then they split the difference. I mean, it just kind of depends. So again, it's not like nobody's going to steal the home. That's not going to happen.

I guess other thing too now is like, what are some of the benefits of reverse mortgages? So maybe I'll just go through what I remember and then maybe you can see if there's anything new. So one way was that people could just take out a loan and pay off all their debt and they have no payments, no nothing. That's one option. Another one is they actually, there's enough equity in there. They, maybe they'll take a monthly payment. They could take an income. So now they have the house they're living in and now they're making 200, 800 a month, whatever, whatever it worked out to be based on their age and the value of the home. Um, some people might do, um, like a mixture where they'll take a small payment or amount of a

payment and then they might leave 50 grand or a hundred grand in the line of credit. And that line of credit actually grows. If you don't use it, it gets bigger and bigger, which is pretty cool. Um, I actually, side note, I actually saw a guy a christian or a husband and wife they were very astute very wise financial people they had a six hundred thousand dollar home with no nothing on it and i mean they did a reverse mortgage and i asked him i was like why the hell are you doing this so he's like he goes because if something happens to me um you know i want to have my wife have this is just another asset so they put they put this huge line of credit and they never touched it so this line of credit was getting massive every year just

growing and growing and growing so literally down the road if there was a housing crash and this 600,000 or 500,000 properties with 300,, they literally could have a line of credit out there, five, four, five, 600,000 that she could pull on. Like insane. So a financial tool. I also used it one time for some, some people just do all cash out to some people just take out the cash in a lump sum. That's another option. And I think the rates on that are probably the best, but and then one thing that I used, I was always trying to be creative.

So there was this lady, her husband died, 4,000 square foot home, three acres. She couldn't take care of it all. Now he's gone. He was mowing the lawn and stuff and keeping himself busy. And she's like, I don't know what to do. I can't afford this. You know, the taxes alone are like 6,000 a year. So I said, okay, here's what you're going to do.

Sell the house, take the cash and let's go buy a fourplex. So she did a reverse mortgage purchase loan. So you can actually buy a home with a reverse mortgage too. This isn't just your existing home. She purchased a fourplex, and then she just dialed in the kitchen that her husband never let her have. I mean, we made this house like dialed. And then she had the rents coming in off the other three that actually paid the mortgage and actually gave her an income. So she moved into this quaint little part of a duplex. We set it up with a

property management company so she didn't have to talk to anybody. They collected all the money, dealt with the tenants, and she had a really nice place. Plus, she had some cash left over in the bank. Huge for her because she'd lost her husband's part of the social security. So that replaced that. It was just, you know, there's just so many different ways you can use a reverse mortgage. Maybe you can allude on a couple of stories that are unique like that. Yeah. You know, I mean, we can, and they're all stories and you're absolutely right, Tim. And that's the, that's the thing about this. The home is, it's not an asset like a sleeve of mutual funds or, you know, a stock portfolio or a bond ladder or something out there that might be, you know, a more complex tool. The home is also where you lay your head at night. You know,

we all have to lay our head at night someplace or, you know, we sleep somewhere. It's where we raise our family. Life events happen in the home. It's more than black and white, you know. So we need to treat it as such. It's not just an asset. It is much more than that. But, you know, you hit on this because for the HUD product, you know, you have to be at least 62. One of the spouses has to be 62. So consequently, I think the average age is right now somewhere in the early 70s. The average length of reverse is about eight years. But, you know, imagine a house back on the East Coast. We all live in the western half of the United States.

But a $500,000 home, say, in New Jersey, property taxes there are going to be about $15,000 a year. So traditionally, and this is I'm not making a, you know, he, her statement or anything like that, but the male typically dies first, at least in the generation that we have right now, because statistically, well, first of all, actually speaking, that's a realism, that's acromantic, and I, I, I shouldn't caveat that, but it's, you know, 81 and 78, by the way, I think are the numbers. It is. And the husband passes away first because he's going to pass away statistically first anyway. And he's probably older than his wife, at least in the generation that we have in there right now in retirement. You mentioned it earlier when when he passes away, she she loses the lesser of the two Social Security amounts. Right. So let's say that he was getting fifteen hundred,500, she was getting $1,000, $2,500 a month.

That's pretty thin. And now we lost $1,000 of that. She gets $1,500 a month and she has to pay $15,000 in property taxes. You mentioned it at the beginning of the show. You can save someone's house with this. You can use the home to pay for itself, right? And the National Center on Aging actually publishes something that we send to everybody, which is using the home to pay for

itself. So in that context, we take money out of the house to pay for property taxes, insurance, things that you just have to do. Because if you don't pay those things, they don't care how old you are. They kick you out. And you know, it's really cool. I don't know in the other states, but in Oregon, they allow us, they allowed us to do this. Like if somebody was really broke and they had like no money, we could set up a reverse mortgage, but we wouldn't create like a – it's almost like a Medicare for taxes. So we would close the reverse mortgage because they had to fill out this income statement. We would always structure the mortgage so they had less. Maybe they'd put up a line of credit so they could grab money when they needed it, right?

Or convert it later into income, which is another thing. The line of credit can be converted later into an income stream later. So then what happens is we put the reverse mortgage into place. I'd hook them up with the state. And there was like a window. It was weird. You had to get in during a window of time. But then the property taxes would be deferred behind the reverse mortgage too, which is really good. So now they have no, I know the reverse mortgage and, um, and no property

taxes. Are you able to do that in other States or is that just Oregon? Every state's different, but most in Colorado, it's called the homestead, um, um, the homestead act. And if you've lived there a certain number of years, you get a break on property taxes. Most States have something like that for, um, for older Americans and for veterans and things of that nature. But to get back to the first question, that's just one way that it might work. So that's a, and we think of them, Carter and Tim, as needs-based and wants-based. We have this continuum, right? And usually they're not on one side or the other. They're somewhere in between. Needs-based is I don't have enough

money to retire on, and I need to use the house. Wants-based is I've got a portfolio, but this gives me another bucket of cash to draw from. And I'll give you a couple of examples here. And this is where it comes in as a tool for financial advisors, which is what I work on, what my expertise is in. So you could use it, I'll give you some simple examples. You could use it to defer claiming Social Security. Let's say you want to retire at 65. We know that every year that you wait to claim Social Security, you give them their 8%. And 8% doesn't sound like a lot, but believe me, when you add 8% up over five years, it's a difference in what your monthly payment from Social Security is going to be.

So you can draw money from the house while you're waiting to get to 70 to max out your Social Security. So this is why it's important to stay healthy because then you can stick it to the government and get your money back. It is. So a Social Security delay claiming strategy. Also, for those wants-based clients, we have people that would use the house. Right. Because now we have the market is in flux. Right. The Dow Jones is up and down every day. That's what they tell me. Again, I don't look at that. Don't look at that. But if you're a financial planner and you're working with older Americans and they have retired, you know, you mentioned earlier, you're in the accumulation stage while you're accumulating and saving money.

Then when you retire, you're in the accumulation stage, you know, while you're accumulating and saving money. Then when you retire, you're in the decumulation stage. So we don't think anything of spending assets down once we're, hey, we need to tap into our IRA to live. Right. Because we need to augment Social Security. Well, you can also take money out of the house because it's called sequence risk, which is just a sexy way of saying, don't sell low when you bought high, right? Because if you bought Apple at $100 a share, and I totally pulled that out of the air, and now Apple's trading at $50 a share, but I need money to buy groceries. So when I call my financial planner up and say, I need $20,000 or whatever that is, the financial planner's like, ooh, the market's down. I don't want to sell right now because you're going to lock in a loss. And not just the market's down, I don't want to sell right now because you're going to lock in a loss. And not just the market's down, but I'm going to sell a loss. I lock that in guaranteed. The house is a non-correlated asset. It's called a buffer asset. And I'm maybe going a little too

deep here, but they're drawing from funds and not taking funds out when it's an opportune time for them. So it's a tool. I mean, we're talking about this. This is another bucket of money. It's tax-free. You bought the house with after-tax dollars. The money you take out of the house is considered a loan and it's tax-free. You don't pay taxes on it. The other one that we're starting- That's really important for people to know that the income is tax-free because it's actually a loan accruing against the house. So you cannot tax a loan. That's a very important point. And that's probably the number one concern the seniors had when I was doing work with them. They were, am I going to, they're going to get taxed me on this. You're not going to get taxed on it. The tax advantage status. And I'll give you one more play, which is kind of 2.0 that now market environments and

what we're seeing in the market and where we are as a country, people taking money out of the house to convert assets from an IRA to a Roth IRA. Because you have tax preferred money that comes out of the house. You don't want to pay taxes in the future. If you wanted to convert, whatever your tax rate is, let's say you want to convert $500,000 into a Roth. You pay the taxes one time, $125,000 versus over time. But then you say the property or the funeral tax or whatever it is once it gets passed. You know, now you're talking, you know, saving hundreds of thousands of dollars in taxes, literally. There's many different avenues to do it, but we have to sit down and we need to talk to the people.

What does your client want to get out of this? There's 90 different combinations in my, in my company alone. So we want to know what, if you could wave a magic wand, what would you want this to do for you? Yeah. And maybe you're talking to some clients and you find out that their mom is, how's their house paid off? And dad died and she's on $650 a month, social security. She has nothing. And, um, and the roof's leaking and the house is, uh, you you know it's going to dry rot and be worth a bare lot so i actually had um quite a few of those where you would take these ladies and um like this one lady she owed like hardly she was she was barely able

to make her mortgage payment it's a little little mortgage payment it's like 400 a month or something but it was set up a long time ago and And I was able to pay that off, get her about $600 a month in income. So that's a $1,000 a month switch in income flow for her, which is huge. Fixed the roof and the siding, got that dialed, and left her with a $30,000 line of credit for emergencies. Completely changed her life. She was sitting there literally with buckets catching water when it rained, watching her house just fall apart. And now her house is bulletproof for the rest of her life. She gets to stay in her home. She got the line of credit. She's got this extra

thousand dollars in cashflow. So, I mean, these people would hug me. We had a client, we had a couple when they got their reverse mortgage, they actually built a new deck. And then they sent me pictures of their deck. They had a, they got remarried for their 50th wedding anniversary and had their friends show up that were still alive and and then they sent me a big picture with a thank you card so i used to i mean i have a lady who sent me a she made a she made birdhouses and then she made this she wrote reverse mortgage birdhouse thing on it i still have it i'm gonna put up it's really cool you get really cool clients and you're really helping people it's an awesome tool it's great it's a great job i love my i love what i do and i love the work we do and if you talk to people that do this for a living i've never i've never

had one that i did myself where the people weren't thrilled with it you know they they weren't this changed my life and i got a voicemail on my phone that i keep for where you know we help save a person's uh person's health she's left me a crying voicemail and uh from that i keep for where you know we help save a person's uh person's house she's left me a crying voicemail and uh from having a tough day and i need to keep going i listen to that and it might sound a little hokey but uh you know that's a real thing too that's a real thing they're back property taxes and they're they're they didn't know and all of a sudden we actually had one of those we rescued it the, like the day before it went to auction. It was like by the hair of her chinny chin chin,

we were able to get that house saved. And I was working feverishly on that to get that done. And what a great, great thing. And they're great clients too, because then they start sending you their friends for sure. It's like lots of referrals. Absolutely. Yeah.

And you hit the nail on the head. You can change somebody's life. So absolutely. Yeah, really cool. Carter, anything else before we go to the next segment? Well, yeah, you know, I just wanted to chime in a little bit about, you know, one of the things that we've talked about a lot. And Tim, your parents are actually owners of our what we call our estate plan.

You know, estate plan is a key component that a lot of times, and maybe you can talk more specifically, Christian, on what you see, you know, the statistics are staggering and you're talking about 65 and plus, right? The issue that happens a lot of times is that a lot of the proper planning, you know, post-mortem, if you will, when these triggering events, as we call it in the industry, happens, you know, post-mortem, if you will, when these triggering events, as we call it in the industry, happens, you know, how are we ensuring that those assets are also not going to go through probate and they're going to make sure that they're distributed properly and things of that nature. We need to make sure that we have that proper distribution plan.

But, you know, the statistics are staggering. Eighty three percent of Americans. This is from Wealth Council statistics. Eighty three percent of Americans don't have this necessary tool that we call an estate plan using wills and trust and the combination of all those things. What have you seen in your line of work, Christian, on how does that 83 percent statistic line up? If you know, I would it's anecdotal, but I would say that that's very accurate. It goes into why I'm in this business to begin with is, as a country, we spend more time planning our vacations than we do our retirement. I mean, you've seen and heard those kinds of studies. So not giving a thought, I'll do it. It might be I've heard some behaviorists say it's

because we don't like to think about our own demise or whatever that might be, but, you know, live well, you know, leave well kind of a thing. I know that's, I think it's a mortuary tagline somewhere that I read, but I like it. It's catchy, right? So you don't want to leave a mess for your family. Certainly if you care for them, you don't want to do that. So we run into it. Absolutely. You know, and when Tim, something you mentioned, you know, a lot of times the kids, you know, they're like, hey, my parents don't need a reverse mortgage. And I'm like, have you been to your parents house lately? Have you seen what they're out there living? You know, in some of those you run into it and you're like um you're not making a mortgage payment you're not dropping by enough here um that you know dire circumstances or maybe they're not dire but things could be going better so how do you prepare people for you know for later stages in life and ultimately when they leave the planet or whatever happens strong it's like mom's doing

pretty good she ain't eating the hard cat food she's got you know she's got the good canned stuff you know awesome yeah it's got different flavors it's got i mean it's got swordfish for god's sakes well you know and here's the thing i mean not not to beat up on the public school system but i will um you know it's a mess exactly but the problem is for for decades, the benefit of your clients, right, our clients, everybody on this call, really, in this podcast, all of our clients, 65 and up, they don't even have the education because it benefits the powers that be that you don't know about these things. And then when you tell them, they're like, well, that just sounds too good to be true. That can't be possible. There's got to be some catch or whatever. You know, I believe that our public educators that are out there and those who are, you know, dangling the puppet strings, if you will, they benefit by your clients and our clients collectively, not knowing that reverse mortgages are a financial tool, not understanding estate planning can be accessible to the mass affluent, right?

Which is why I wake up every single day, every single day I wake up trying to help somebody's grandparents, right? As if they're my own on making sure that they have the tools accessible to make sure all of your affairs in order. You do the same type of thing, Christian. And when we spoke originally, I was like, man, we are so simpatico and believe in, especially 65 and up. That's the demographic we're talking about, right?

Yeah. They need the education on why reverse mortgages are critically, potentially critically beneficial to them and having a meaningful retirement, right? And then what happens when you're no longer here? We got to make sure that the distribution plans are set into place and everything. So the mass affluent demographic, that 500,000 to 5 million area, that's very underserved. That's who I wake up every single day wanting to make an impact for the future, because I don't want things like I've seen have happened,

the horror stories that happen when you don't do the proper planning, proactive planning that happens in families. Guess what happened? They fracture if you don't do the proper planning. And that's why I wake up and why, you know, what my why is. And I love the passion that you have, Christian, with RMF on being able to deliver, working through the financial advisor network on why it's a critical financial tool.

It is. And people, a lot of people will think also, Carter, that, oh, that's oh, that's a lawyer. That's expensive. Right. But, you know, estate planning doesn't have to be expensive. It's a necessary I think it's a necessary component to, you know, to protect your family, not just financially, but you're right. It causes a lot of, you know, behavioral risks. If you don't, if you're not clear about what you want, you know, who, who gets the, who gets, you know, grandma's China and who gets the silver or whatever that should be laid out. Nobody's going to argue with, you know, with the person who spelled it out before the death. Yeah. It's actually a good thing too. because when I know every single client that I had because I was – I think that's why I went into financial advising afterwards. I hooked up with a really awesome estate planning attorney back in the day, and I was pushing them.

I'm like, you need to go get a trust set up. You need to go get a trust. Now they actually had a little cash from the reverse mortgage to go do it. Then they found out it wasn't that big of a deal they had a few meetings now with carter's program it's really easy so it was really good because their reverse mortgage they're kind of thinking you know they they're realizing they're mortal right and they're kind of planning for the last few years they want to enjoy that and then it's like it's natural fit to get their estate plan done at the same time so carter would be you guys would be it actually should you guys should be like you know peanut butter and jelly uh working together our first few uh

meetings actually went pretty well yeah and you awesome one thing and i'll i'll go back but you sound like you did this enough tim to you probably helped somebody like remodel the house right like they're living at the house oh yeah totally whatever study we look at we know it's in the high 90 percentiles like 95 plus people want to age in place like nobody wants to go to Oh, yeah, totally. The virus just moved around in there. So if you want to age in place, let them remodel their bathroom and their kitchen and live those last 10 years or 12 years or whatever it is. With a house that's easier to get around in, to cook in, to do the daily activities of living, let them enjoy that. We actually did tons of those, Christian. Tons. All the bedrooms were upstairs, but they couldn't get up and down the stairs.

So we'd put in one of those chair lifts, right? Yeah. Or they would build a master bedroom downstairs. Right? Stuff like that. Or a walk-in shower, no sill. Yeah, the walk-in bathtubs. Yep, yep.

Just be really careful that people listen out there on the walk-in bathtubs. Because there's some people online that are really scamming seniors on that stuff. This lady was like, I was like, where did you get this loan? It was like $15,000. She had to take a line of credit out of credit. And she was like, Oh, I got a walk-in bath. That was like 15 grand. I went and looked at it. It was just like a plastic insert. They were in and out in like one day. And I'm just like, Oh my God. So I had my, um, I talked to my contractor. He's like, dude,

he goes, I could have done a custom job made out of, you know, like, you know, I don't know, some exotic marble from Peru for six grand, you know, with both handles everywhere and, you know, pimped out. And so anyway, look out for your senior clients when you're giving them money to ask them if they're going to be making any purchases and help them out. Be an advisor for the reverse mortgage people out there if you're an advisor you know make sure they're they're being stewards with their money they're not getting taken advantage of absolutely no all right guys well i think that's it we'll take a quick break when we get back we'll flip the script and uh let christian ask me any question he wants on health we'll be right back you want the absolute best for yourself and you want it to be easy. That's why we created Green 85.

It helps with detoxifying the body gently. We're proud it's chemical free, unlike almost all other supplements you'll find. Bottom line, Green 85 will get you healthier. We look forward to hearing what Green 85 did for you. To get this product and our other amazing products, go to chemicalfreebody.com. That's chemicalfreebody.com. What's up, enrichers? Tim James here. I am back with my co-host, Carter Wilcoxon. Again, today in the house, we have Christian Mills from RMF, Reverse Mortgage Funding. I also want to thank you, Christian, for being here. It's been great having you on the show. This is the section where we flip the script because this is the health and

wealth podcast. We've talked a lot about the wealth stuff. And so this is the health segment. So you get to ask me any question on health for yourself personally, a friend, a family member, public health, whatever you want. I'll do my best to answer it. Great. Well, it's one of the things that drew me to this when Carter told me about it was the intersection of health and wealth is, you know, it's being studied a lot these days, food deserts, all these sorts of things. Dr. David Blanchett, I think he's with Prudential now, he does a lot about how we estimate how long people will live. And a lot of it has to do with, you know, your socioeconomic status, uh it's not a level playing field um so i'm very interested in that it goes hand in

hand with behavioral um behavioral finance but i've got a question so i ruptured my achilles back in october of 2020 and was virtually repaired within a few days and i did physical therapy and all that stuff if you if you get if you get a chance, don't rupture your Achilles tendon. I would recommend not doing that. Did you fall down when it happened? I collapsed more or less. Yeah. Down you went.

I had a buddy of mine I was playing basketball with one day. We just finished and we're like high-fiving and shaking hands. And then he took a step back and down he went and he pulled his Achilles. That was it. Boom, snap. Nothing like that. But so I'm 55 years old. I went through the first piece happened during COVID. I'm going back to see a new, like a kind of a sports thing.

I'm an avid skier and mountain person, but for me, what would you recommend? You know, just, I mean, I just met you today. So I've got to you know, I'm going to see a whole new group, which, of course, my insurance won't cover or anything like that. But I'm invested in it because if I don't take care of myself, you know, nobody else will. So do you have limited limited you have it working, but is it limited mobility? Is it stiff? Is there pain down there? It is. It's it's more, you know, I still can, you know, this is the good leg. I can move up and down like that. Surgically repair leg, you know, I have about 70% range of motion or something like that. So I just saw my surgeon again a couple of weeks ago. Everything's fine.

That's going well. It just, it takes time, you know, is what they tell me. So, yeah. Well, you know, the fastest way to heal anything is increasing your blood flow. Okay. That's number one so then the question is is like what can i do to increase my blood flow so um you know grounding pads have you heard of grounding or earthing i've heard of it i don't know what that is and i've heard of cupping and stuff like that too but a little bit different so the earth puts off a uh an energy so it's an

energy source for us it's like a battery pack so just like plugging a you know you got a battery charger in the side of the wall and you stick your batteries in there it charges well when we're when we have our bare skin in touch with the earth it's charging us it's not woo-woo stuff at all i can measure your blood look at under a microscope and see it moving around put your bare foot on the ground for four hours and then prick your finger and test again. You'll see the blood racing around in the microscope. Literally, as soon as we break contact with the earth, inflammation begins. So as soon as you recontact with it, it takes inflammation down.

And when you're trying to heal, it's all about reducing inflammation. You do that through blood flow and bringing oxygen and oxygen and and water to that system to pull their inflammation out so out what you can do is you can get these grounding sheets for your that are lined with silver and then every residential building there's one called ground lux g-r-o-u-n-d-l-u-x those are sheets or you can go to a place called earthing.com and they have pads like right now i have you guys check this out see this pad right here this is actually plugged in and i'm grounding right now while i work i'm grounding 24 7 because i understand the importance of this so there's documentaries on grounding and earthing you should check it out they'll blow your mind like earthing.com the documentary and you'll be

like how did i not know about this i'm getting one of these to me immediately and you can actually hack your sleep like i have a watch on right now, kind of a whoop band, they call it, or an aura ring. And you can actually hack, track your sleep. And it will definitely improve your sleep and everything else. And recovery, we definitely get people that post-surgery. But everybody should just be grounding. So outside of every residential commercial building, there's an iron rod going down. And there's that wire coming.

And that's the third prong or the foundation that the ground to the electrical grid is the third prong. So these things you just plug into the third prong only. And it brings that current from the earth's energy into those threads of silver threads into your sheet. And you're grounding at night while you sleep or laying on a pad or I'm touching this pad right now and I'm grounded. See, so that's a very passive way to start healing. Another thing you can do is CBDs. A high quality CBD product is very good. I actually had a guy who was an ultramarathoner, David Clark. God rest his soul.

He passed away because he died in just a routine back surgery. It's horrible. But he was one of my buddies. And he ruptured his Achilles. And he was completely recovered in a third of the time the doctors thought and what I'm sharing with you is the the recipe that I gave him so it was like the grounding sheet and then we did the um he was doing a high quality CBD product they're hard to find but there's um there's one a true balance that they have a really good one t-r-e-w balance.com. And I think it was called five golden rings.

F-G-R was the, was what he was taking. And when you're fresh out of a hurt, you know, you kind of double down on it, right. For a few months. So we did that also lots and lots of really high quality water. Right. So lots and lots of water. Cause that's going to be, that's the lubricant of life. That's going to help. That's number one for inflammation. Um, number four would be infrared saunas, infrared saunas. If you get the right ones are really going to, um, speed up blood flow

because they're going to actually shrink your blood molecules and they're going to allow your blood to get into dormant capillaries. And it's just going to, you're going to, once you get one of these saunas, you're going to be wondering again, why the hell I didn't have all this stuff. So I I've been hacking. If you want to say that, or I've been, you know, adding things to my life and trying them out for 11 years now. And I found certain things that have moved the needle tremendously for me. I've shared them with thousands of clients around the world now and everybody loves them. So what I'm sharing with you is like things that you can stack together that will really totally move the needle in recovery and healing and stuff like that.

Now, for something, obviously, nutrition is huge as well. But, you know, so, you know, taking a really good quality, making sure you're getting your greens in is very important. actually have a product called green 85 where you can scoop it twice a day and and do it on the go and get you know five pounds of vegetable matter in your body twice a day uh nutrient wise um and very simple and then um the last thing i would say is for more of a targeted approach um well let's just let's do two things let's do mechanically you could get somebody to get down there and work on that thing so look into somebody who's like a um they're a rolfer okay is this you familiar with that yes a little bit yeah okay so for those listening if you're not because it sounds weird the first time i heard it i couldn't pronounce it was kind of like

when my buddy got chronic lymphocytic leukemia i couldn't pronounce the darn word but rolfing was developed by a woman named ida rolf that's where the term came from. So rolfing is her technique that she developed to work on the body. So she gets deep into fascia and stuff like that. So getting somebody in there to really work around that area in your foot at a deep level, not just some surface level BS massage, very important mechanically. They can also, you can watch them and you can have them teach you how to work on your own foot, right? Because you can reach down there. The other thing mechanically is yoga, you know, yoga and stretching posture. So yin yoga, I think, would be something you should write down and look into. I think you'll really enjoy it.

And as we age, this is basically, you know, heading you back to becoming a baby and becoming flexible again. You know, when kids come out, they're all flexible. And as we age, one of the signs of aging is we're getting stiff and we don't move as much. The reason why we get stiff and we don't move as much is because we don't move as much. That's it.

So we're not stretching. We have to get in there and we have to work. And yin yoga is basically three to ten-minute stretching postures where you'll gently do a position, and you're just on the edge of discomfort but not too much so these fascia and what you got going on in there like taffy so after about 90 seconds of a stretch then they start to move so the first 90 seconds is just kind of warming them up and then the next 90 seconds plus is where the pay dirt is and then you'll you'll start

feeling younger and stuff like that you can do those kind of stretches but be very careful because you've had that you know you want to be very gentle with this do not push it just very gentle and really focus on your breath work the last thing i would say is something you could do now that i actually believe in um i mean i know it works but i was really worried about chemicals is stem cell. And there's lots of different stem cell therapies out there. But I actually I just had a stem cell expert on. Now there's nano stem cell.

So they're actually taking the energy out of the stem cells from the placentas from newborns. And we're able to do that. And it's cleaned up because I didn't want to put the blood of anybody in me because of the toxic chemicals i mean every single child being born the umbilical cord studies show there's two there's 180 cancer causing chemicals in the womb of every newborn today so that told me nine years ago everybody's polluted and that's why my company's called chemical free body is because my mission is to bring awareness to this because the older we are the more time we've had to bioaccumulate these toxins in our fat and our muscle tissue in our brain. And it's just a matter of time before a straw will break the camel's back with this toxic microscopic body burden.

So your cells have like these backpacks of toxins on them. They're packing around. So we teach you to sweep that crap out. Your cells are unburdened. You become unburdened. You get your, you get your energy back and stuff like that. But those stem cells are just looking it up, I can't remember what it is, but, um, it's,

you have to look it up. It's the stem cell, um, podcast, my podcast called the health hero show, look that up and you can connect with that doctor, but that, that, that would be a nice stack for you. All this stuff I gave you is plenty to get you going. And you should, besides helping you heal your Achilles, if you do what I just shared with you you're going to have a much healthier happier life and you're going to have a higher quality of life too to enjoy all those um you know helping more people do reverse mortgages and enjoy the income you learned and saved so hard excellent well thank you yeah you're welcome and you since we're you, not all about me here, you know, I'm interested in your take on what it would take to have some sort of leveling of the, this is a big question, Tim and Carter, sorry, we get derailed here. But, you know, the healthcare industry, the insurance stuff, you know, is mind boggling to me.

is mind boggling to me. And I don't, uh, I don't pretend to understand it, you know, exactly or anything along those lines, but it's certainly, um, you know, I still don't understand why a healthcare company could pay less than an individual. It seems like they have more money. They should pay more when you go see a doctor, you know, you ever get the bill and it says, here's what your physician charged. Here's what we negotiated and paid. I guess it's the power of, you know, uh, you know, deeper pockets or something along those lines. But, you know, I mean, we're the, you know,

because I, you measure where we are as the United States of America, we don't have healthcare for everybody. I mean, that, that kind of, it kind of, you know, makes me a little nuts. I got to tell you. Well, well, I'll Well, I'll just say this. We actually do have health care for everybody. Everybody can get health care in the United States of America. There's no one that can walk into a hospital and be denied health care. Nobody, right? But what you're talking about is health insurance for everybody to be able to not have to pay for it or you pay less for it than somebody else.

Here's the one thing that I, and people are blown away by this, but I take my health pretty seriously, which is why whenever I met Tim, you know, the Health and Well podcast and the whole infancy of that, it made perfect sense for the two of us to join forces. But, you know, the thing that I found out a long time ago is all that stuff that's that they charge you so much for whenever you go in to get anything, no matter no matter what it is. That's all like negotiated. You're a health care provider. And I haven't had health insurance for me and my family for 12 years, right? Because all my doctor cares about is getting paid. So I literally negotiate with him to pay.

Just simply not having insurance for him is less of a burden. I'm talking pediatrician, right? It's less of a burden for him. He just wants to get paid. And then I get basically a discounted rate simply because I don't even have health insurance. burden i'm talking pediatrician right it's a burden for him he just wants to get paid and then i get it basically a discounted rate simply because i don't even have health insurance i just play straight out of pocket the amount of um you know for a healthy family that's constantly being healthy and and serious about health yeah little we actually have to go it's not about those little things that um along the way that

that are concerning for parents it's those big things about what can happen to your to your kids or whatever in order to pay for that but um i know i'm kind of sort of all over the place with this but i made the decision actually Actuarially speaking again, I would much rather keep all that extra money in my pocket. Like whenever I used to work for a company before I started my own, my health insurance was free, but to add my family to it, it was like, now this is however many years ago at the, at the time talking 15 years ago, when I used to work for a company um it was like

600 a month just to add my family and then of course you got the co-pays you got all that you start doing the math adding that up over so many years you're like wait a second can i just work directly with my doctor my my primary care physician and pay and guess what 75 off what it would have cost me uh originally and i had to go to emergency one time for my son and they simply said okay here's that here's how much it costs you don't have insurance here's how much it would have cost but we're going to take 75 off here's all you owe now now that's just me personally, right? But that's, I guess, risking the, you know, but it's really some of those critical things that can happen along the way, right? Yeah, like an accident, surgeries, and things like that. That stuff's expensive, right?

Yeah, yeah, exactly. So, anyway, I'm not in the healthcare care field at all honestly i'm in the retirement planning field right so with you we're big fans of long-term care for that reason care insurance life insurance annuities things of that nature right that deal with your retirement planning so i i'm just giving you my own take on the health care racket, as far as I'm concerned, is what it feels like to me. But I just, for me and my family, I'm like, why do I want to keep paying all this? And then you got to pay your co-pay, and then you got to pay, it feels like it's constantly, you're just constantly paying in. It feels a little bit like for your car insurance,

right? Just in case you get an accident. But you get these discounts if being a good driver and like after all these years you pay in, you're just like, it's an actuarial math. I mean, there's a reason why insurance companies, let's just be honest about it. There's a reason why insurance companies, I don't care which one it is, in the health field or in the life field, they have the biggest buildings out there. Now, why is that? Why do they have the biggest buildings with all the employees and they make all this money? It's because it's a numbers game and they know that they're winning it. It's much like Vegas. Yeah, well, they don't make billions of dollars by paying claims, that's for sure. So, yeah. Well, the bottom line is, is like, we just have to get back and like, why would we want health insurance?

Why would we want to go into a broken system? I mean, we're the sickest people have ever been. And what you're going to walk out of there with is synthetics for your acid-based synthetics for your carbon-based body. There's actually, where I was living down south of Portland, there's a little town called Canby. It's a little, there's a clinic called the Canby Clinic. It's primary care naturopathic medicine. And their thing was like cutting edge medicine, old fashioned care. And because of the raise, the rising costs and gaps and benefits, um, chronic and even emergency

health needs are going unmet. So, um So people are treated with quick fix pharmaceuticals. And, you know, the long term relationship with the doctor that oversees your health for a long time is almost obsolete. So in response to that, what's happening is they're looking for more patient centered, affordable, cutting edge health care. And so they do membership based practice approach. So basically what it is, it's a non insurance model and more clinics are doing this now. So people can look for these in their local area all around the United States. And actually, Oregon, it was the first naturopathic clinic to offer this. So basically, you there's like a seventy five dollar enrollment fee. And then if

you're zero to 17 years old, it's 30 bucks a month. If you're 18 to 30, it's 60 a month. If you're 31 to 44, it's 80 a month. If you're 45 and older, it's 105 a month. And you get unlimited visits, unlimited blood draws, blah, blah, blah. Right. So you just pay a monthly membership fee and that's it. And it's way less than insurance. I mean, it was my God.

It's like when a family of four is paying $1,500 a month for insurance that then goes into a broken system that doesn't work. That is complete madness to do this. And one of the reasons why these costs are so much is there's so many in between people in the insurance industry. They're called GPOs and PBMs. We need to go direct, right? So if you look at a hospital as an example, this was like, I think it 2006 right when i first actually started doing reverse mortgages i was doing a loan for this guy who was a purchasing director for a hospital and just for shits and giggles i was like hey dude how much does a tylenol cost somebody in the hospital and he's like i don't know let me check and he got back and he goes one tylenol to be given to somebody in the hospital this is like 2006 was like 17 and 40 something like that and i'm like what i hospital. This is like 2006 was like $17 and 40 cents or something like that.

And I'm like, what? I'm like, that is crazy. It's like, just, it should be two cents in the first half. You shouldn't put Tylenol on your body anyway, because that shit's terrible, but there's many other options. But anyway, there's the middleman. It's, it's, it's a racket. Anything that's big business, big politics, big media, all that stuff.

If it's on TV, it's probably not good for you unless it's, you know, unless it's a reverse mortgage ad. That's about it. I mean, but it's like, yeah, it's funny. But yeah, so the whole the public system is screwed. And if people if you want to get out of it, the quickest way to get out of it is take care of your own health. Grab the reins of your health and figure this stuff out and learn. It's not really that hard to do. And then you don't get sick. Like, I don't go to the doctor anymore.

Why would I go? I'm healthy. Think about it. In nature, how many hospitals are in nature? There isn't any. Animals don't need them because they're plugged into their natural system. They're getting their natural food, their natural movement, the natural sun sign, the natural connection with Mother Earth.

They don't need that stuff. Yeah, every once in a while. I bet right now if we took the entire medical system and shit canned all of it, overall our health would improve tremendously. Tremendously if we just got rid of the whole thing. Like literally, it's really embarrassing how bad it is. It's kind of like our politics and, you know, past probably half a dozen presidents we've had. It's embarrassing, right? It's an embarrassing thing. Now for critical care, somebody gets in an accident,

it's amazing. But for the rest of it, man, it's really really I'm really embarrassed to be even associated with with it at all. I mean, I'm not. But the best way to stay away from it is just to take care of your health. Like Benjamin Franklin said, an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. Absolutely. OK, Carter. I think we're done, dude. That's awesome. So, hey, enrichers, thank you so much for joining us for another episode of the health and wealth podcast uh and i want to go ahead and and thank you again christian thank you so much for coming on sharing your backstory i know we didn't get into sec you know baseball football or anything like that i know you're a kentucky guy oh man he just reminded me we did

talk about golfer sports and he's still, he's still ditching it in at the end. I can't believe it. This is like, this is a monumental. It is. We somehow get that in every single time, but Hey, it was okay because I think it was awesome for our listenership, our enrichers to be able to hear more. You got into the weeds with reverse mortgages, the benefits to it. Obviously, Tim, with his background and everything, he was able to share some of his stories and

everything as relevant now as it was back then, right? So Christian, seriously, thank you so much for coming on and educating our listenership on this critical piece and everything. So in Richers, thank you again for joining us for another episode. Make sure to like, share, and subscribe our podcast. And for all of our previous guests, go to our website at www.thehealthandwealthpodcastshow.com. And again, for my fantastic co-host, Mr. Chemical Free Body himself, Tim James, and our wonderful guest today, Christian Mills from Reverse Mortgage Funding. I'm Carter Wilcoxon, CEO and co-founder of Epic Services

Company and CSI Financial Group, wishing you all a very wonderful day. And until next time, we will see you on the Health and Wealth Podcast. Thank you, everybody. Hey, enrichers. Thanks for tuning in to another episode of the Health and Wealth Podcast. I'm your host, Carter Wilcoxon. And I'm your host, Tim James. And by God, we are committed to helping you guys have fat wallets, flat bellies. So tune in again for another episode and make sure to like, share, and drink a lot of water or beer. You have just listened to the Health and Wealth Podcast with Carter and Tim.