Hidden True Crime - 24 HOURS BEFORE THE KILLINGS: Lindsay Clancy’s Psychiatrist Reveals What She Saw | Day 9

Episode Date: August 8, 2026

*This episode was originally recorded live with minimal editing The Lindsay Clancy trial continued with critical testimony from the psychiatrist who saw Lindsay just 24 hours before the deaths of her three children. On Day 9, jurors heard what Lindsay’s psychiatrist observed during one of the final appointments before the January 24, 2023 tragedy, including her mental state, treatment, medications, and what—if anything—raised concern at the time. Lauren Matthias breaks down the testimony, the key moments from Day 9, and what this new evidence could mean for the prosecution and defense as the battle over Lindsay Clancy’s mental state intensifies. Sponsor:Hims- Ready to reach your goals? Visit https://hims.com/hidden to get a personalized, affordable plan that gets you. About Hidden True Crime What started as a simple conversation at their dinner table became a captivating podcast. Join the dynamic duo of Dr. John Matthias, a criminal psychologist, and Lauren Matthias, an investigative journalist, as they delve into the psychological facets of unthinkable crimes every week. Their unique perspectives and in-depth analysis offer a fresh take on true crime storytelling. Thank you for your support through sponsorships, subscribing, listening, and becoming a Patreon member at⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Patreon.com/HiddenTrueCrime⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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We are all watching, man. In my opinion, I don't know about yours. I feel like it's getting more interesting each and every day. It is day nine of the trial. The prosecution's still going. We've finally heard from Dr. Tufts today, the psychiatrist. That's a really big deal. Really, really big witness.

And during objections, things got really heated. Take a listen to this before we get into everything. I want to go to the sidebar. I really don't want to go to the sidebar. I need to know what you're going to talk about before. I want to tell you that they get picked up on a hot mic saying, shut her up during the playing of that autopsy. All right.

This is not like handmade's tails. I'm not doing that at all. I just want to find out what the issue is. There's a lot of privileged issues, and then you can tell me that. Wow. Yeah. So there you have it. We're going to get into that objection.

Don't worry. We're going to talk about it. And we're going to talk about everything that led up to this horrific day, a lot of information from her psychiatrist. So a lot happened today. Let's get into it because the first witness of the day was Kimberly Hardy. And she had worked at the Kingsbury Club for about four years. Remember the Kingsbury Club we heard about from Patrick running all the kids' programs

and the playroom? The club was for members only. It was a place in Kingston with tennis courts, a gym, a pool, a spa, and a setup where parents could drop their kids off for two hours while they worked out. So when parents came in, they used a key fob. or like a scan app at the front desk and they walked down a hallway to the playroom. And the system inside logged who dropped the child off and who picked them up. And the rule was whoever dropped the child off needed to be the one who picked them up unless the staff were told otherwise.

Parents also had to stay on the property and Kimberly described that rule as very strict. She talked about seeing Corrin Dawson regularly. Most of the time Patrick dropped them off, but Lindsay did too. And whenever Lindsay came, Kimberly tried to make small talk. So Lindsay, Lindsay actually, according to Kimberly, always seemed shy. Quiet, polite, not chatty.

Nothing about her demeanor stood out as unusual, though. Lindsay wore workout clothes, came back early, never late, and Kimberly never learned of her leaving the property. So when Kimberly asked why baby Callan didn't come to the playroom, Lindsay told her she was nervous about sickness because it was cold and flu season. Corr and Dawson usually came in the mornings. They color, they played with dolls, dress up toys, cars, trains, just normal kid stuff. And then on one of the last days, Kimberly saw Korah, she drew a pitcher and left it behind.

And that drawing was admitted as an exhibit. They still have it. During cross-examination, Kimberly said that Lindsay never looked angry with her kids. She seemed happy to see them. And the kids were excited when she arrived. Kimberly wasn't close enough to know anything about Lindsay's personal. struggles, but she agreed that doctors sometimes recommended exercise for mental health. And that was that.

Up next was Sarah Carney. She lived in Duxbury with her husband and two young kids and had known Patrick for about 12 years. They met at Salve Regina University, Bay University, and stayed friends through and after college. So through Patrick, she got to know Lindsay, but she described their relationship as social rather than close. So in other words, a social acquaintance. So over the years, their families did beach trips, visited each other's houses and stayed friendly as everyone started having kids. And she said she didn't notice any changes in Lindsay after any of the birth, not after Cora,

not after Dawson, not after Callan. She remembered Lindsay being physically active, even during pregnancy. Sometimes Lindsay posted workout videos online, the kind of beach body style routines where the kids were in the background playing on the couch with toys. Sarah did not recall specific equipment, but she had previously mentioned seeing exercise bans, the murder weapons. And by the fall of 2022, not the murder weapon, but we know the exercise bands were the murder weapons.

And she remembers seen exercise bands in general. And by the fall of 2022, she wasn't seeing Lindsay much. She remembered one drop off where Lindsay looked thinner, but she didn't ask about it. She didn't notice any changes in Lindsay's demeanor and never had conversations with her about postpartum depression or sleep issues. And the last time she saw Lindsay was January 22nd, 2023, the weekend before everything happened. Her family hosted a bonfire at their house. Pat and Lindsay came with Corrin and Dawson while baby Callan stayed home with Lindsay's parents.

Sarah was happy to see her because it had been a while. And inside the kitchen, Sarah talked about her daughter's allergies, then asked Lindsay how she was doing. Lindsay simply said, good. And Sarah didn't push. She felt that if Lindsay wanted to open up, she would. Throughout the afternoon, Lindsay seemed quiet, but normal. Nothing about her speech or behavior struck Sarah as confused or unusual. The family left when it was nap time for the kids.

Well, during cross-examination, Sarah explained that she and Lindsay weren't close enough for Lindsay to confide personal struggles. She confirmed Lindsay looked thinner around that time, but still behaved quietly. It was consistent with how she'd maybe always been. Unredirect, she agreed that Lindsay had always been quiet with her over the 12 years that she had known her. And then up next was Dr. Alia Goodhart. and she explained that she was a psychiatrist at McLean Hospital, which was a standalone psychiatric facility inside the Mass General Brigham system. So this psychiatrist, she worked on one of the inpatient units where patients came from emergency rooms when doctors decided they needed a higher

level of psychiatric care. Some arrived voluntarily, others involuntarily, but once they were admitted, the whole unit functioned as a team, nurses, mental health workers, social workers. All of them watched patients around the clock, checked in with them, documented their observations, and met every day to talk about what they were seeing. Even if someone didn't sit down for a formal conversation with a patient, they were still trained to observe and report anything concerning. She walked through the process of how someone even got to McLean. You couldn't just show up.

Most people were transported from an ER under what's called. called a Section 12. So basically it's a doctor or clinician saying this person needed psychiatric evaluation and had to go. A voluntary version existed to Section 10, but Section 12 was used for transport so the patient couldn't just wander off between hospitals. So before anyone was sent to McLean, they went through the APS evaluation at Mass General. It was a full psychiatric assessment with a clinician reviewed symptoms, history, medication, safety concerns, and decided whether inpatient care was appropriate. So once someone arrived at McLean, they were sent to the clinical evaluation center, a psychiatrist and a nurse repeated the evaluation, asked questions, reviewed the ER notes,

checked for medical issues, and decided what level of monitoring the patient needed. Some people were checked every 15 minutes. If there were concerned, it went to five-minute checks. If someone was truly unsafe, they were placed one-on-one, meaning a staff member stayed with them constantly. After that, the patient was escorted to the unit. Their belongings were screened for safety,

and they were settled into their room. The whole process, honestly, could happen at any hour. Holidays, weekends, middle of the night, the staffing stayed the same. She explained that voluntary patients could leave as long as the team felt that they weren't in imminent danger to themselves or others. If someone was unsafe, the hospital wouldn't just discharge them.

They would pursue a commitment order through a judge. And once someone was admitted, they saw a psychiatrist every day, had nurses checking in mental health workers offering support, group therapy, fresh airwalks, recreation, and counseling woven into like all of these interactions interwoven. And then she talked about Lindsay. she remembered that Lindsay arrived at McLean in the early morning hours of January 1st, 2023, around 4 a.m. actually, transported from Mass General.

Lindsay signed in voluntarily, even though the transport itself used the standard section 12, which meant that she was not voluntary. At intake, she was evaluated by a psychiatrist named Dr. Jasmine Outlaw, and Dr. Outlaw found Lindsay medically stable, screened her for self-harm risk, and documented what Lindsay reported that she felt numb, had trouble sleeping without medication, and had been dealing with intrusive thoughts that she believed were tied to Syracul and Remron. Dr. Outlaw had access to the APS evaluation from Mass General, which had been done by Dr. Hogan. And that evaluation noted that Lindsay had expressed thoughts of wishing that she were dead, but again, had no plan. and no violent or homicidal ideation showed no signs of psychosis, many obsessions, or current anxiety. That information was already in the record before anyone at McLean met her.

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which was the lowest level and continue her medications until the unit psychiatrist could evaluate her. her provisional diagnosis was major depressive disorder, severe without psychotic features. That diagnosis was just a starting point, something the next psychiatrist could change based on their own observations. Later that same day, another psychiatrist, Dr. Elizabeth Madhva met with Lindsay and Dr. Madvot reviewed Lindsay's history, talked to her, and noted that Lindsay denied feeling depressed, denied self-harm thoughts, and said that she mostly felt numb. Lindsay also said that she felt mild anxiety about being in a hospital. Because Lindsay complained about numbness and said that she was sensitive to medications. Dr. Madhva thought the numbness might be a side effect of the Syracille,

right? She decided to taper and watch it closely to see whether the numbness improved or whether any new symptoms appeared. Lindsay had come in on Syracquil, Valium, and Benadryl, and she had previously reported taking Remeron. She also mentioned that one provider had suspected bipolar disorder, though she didn't seem to agree with that diagnosis. On January 2nd, Lindsay saw Dr. Maudva again, and she said she slept well on the lower dose of Syracquil and did not report delusions, did not report hallucinations, or self-harm or homicidal thoughts.

The plan was to continue tapering down to 75 milligrams and then 50. And during those first two days, Lindsay also interacted with nurses, mental health workers, and a social worker. they documented normal interactions, group participation, conversations, check-ins. Nothing alarming appeared in the notes. January 3rd was the first day Dr. Goodhart met Lindsay face-to-face. And before that meeting, she had reviewed everything, the intake notes, the APS excerpts, the interactions with the nurses, the two visits with Dr. Modba.

When she sat with Lindsay, she found her appropriately dressed, polite, cooperative, speaking normally. and appearing though anxious. Lindsay's affect matched her mood. Her thinking was linear and goal directed. Lindsay told her she didn't want to depend on an antipsychotic to sleep. She was worried about the numbness she felt on medication and wanted to understand what was happening to her. Lindsay said she had never had a suicide plan

and had reasons that she would not harm herself. Those reasons included her family and her children. Dr. Goodhart explained how Lindsay told her that she wanted to be able to attend her daughter's birthday party over the weekend, so she continued to plan to taper Syriquil and monitor Lindsay's sleep and mood. She wanted to watch for any signs of bipolar disorder, especially because sleep deprivation can trigger hypomania. She explained that sleep was important for anyone's mental health regardless of diagnosis. She also suggested Simbalta as a possible future medication once Syracquil, was discontinued.

And then Dr. Goodhart talked about Lindsay asking again to leave early. Take a listen. And do you remember having a conversation with her again on that day January 4th about going home? Yes. And what did she say about that? Originally, I think we were thinking,

we had talked about discharge on Friday. And she, She stated that she was anxious being in the hospital and that she wanted to be discharged so she could be home with her family and her children. And so did she ask to leave earlier than Friday? Yes. And when she asked to leave earlier than Friday, what was your response to that? Whenever we, I said she could leave provided she had psychiatric follow-up the next day. And why did you do that?

I wanted to ensure that if she wasn't able to sleep that night after discharge, that she could speak with somebody about it so that they could come up with a plan to ensure she could sleep. and to monitor how she was doing off the medication. And was there kind of a secondary reason that you had asked that she make sure she make an appointment before discharge? Yes, it was also to assess whether she could think clearly and follow directions and get it together to be asked her to set up the appointment herself. And she was able to do that.

that she responded within an hour she told the nurse the social worker that she had gotten an appointment and she went the social worker had asked her for a fax number so that we could discharge the sum we could send the discharge summary and she provided the fax number as well and now on this day that you had met her on on january 4th or yeah january 4th she um she reported that she slept well do you recall what dose of Syracoyle she was down to at that point, had she reached to zero? On which day? On the fourth when you saw her.

I'd have to walk myself through this. So I know she was on 75 milligrams the night of the first, 75 milligrams, the night of the second. On the night of the third, we decreased it to 50 milligrams. On the night of the fourth, she would have been on 25 milligrams. Okay. And fair to say that on the fourth, your plan was to continue to taper her so that she wouldn't, she would be at zero for Syracool, take no Syracille on Thursday night, right? Correct.

And that she would be restarted on Ativan and that she'd have the Trazodone available if she needed it. She was already on Atavon during her admission and was taking it at night. She also had tracadone, which is a sleep medication. It has sedating properties, so it can be used for sleep. So yes, she had that, she had the option to take that as well. And so did you have a concern about her leaving on Thursday, the 5th, without having monitored her at no, Seraquel? I did not have any concerns about her safety or a risk for anybody else.

Okay, but as far as from a diagnostic perspective, would you have preferred to have more information about her sleep patterns and her mood? Yes. Now you said that you didn't have a concern for her safety. So what in your time that you were with her, that you met with her, and all the information that we reviewed, what were. identified as maybe protective factors that made you feel comfortable that she was safe? She was there's several things. She was future oriented. She was

really invested in her children. She was a caring mother just like a caring mother. She had her parents around to help her. She had family and supports. be ensured that she would have outpatient psychiatric care for follow-up. She didn't have a history of suicide. She had no history of psychosis, postpartum psychosis. You know, she had a stable place to live. So the statement that she made to you that she wouldn't have completed the act of suicide because of her kids or her mom, was that something that you considered?

Absolutely. And the fact that during the time she, from admission on January 1st to the time she was discharged on January 5th, that she didn't make statements supporting suicidal ideation, was that a factor that you considered? Yes. And at no time during the time she was at McLean, did she ever indicate that she had ever reported her at thoughts of harming anyone else, did she? She had never stated that she had any thoughts of harming anybody else.

And ultimately, at the end of that conversation with her or the hour later, she was able to secure that appointment that you asked her to on her own. Correct. So during cross-examination, Reddington started by pressing her on. on what resources she actually gave Lindsay when she discharged her. She explained that Lindsay already knew about the Psychology Today website, and she had been given the name and number of a case manager through Blue Cross Blue Shield who could help her find providers based on distance,

gender preference, or specialization. So Reddington pushed harder asking what else she offered besides a website and an insurance contact. She said that there were printed resources in the after-visit summary but she didn't remember each one. Reddington then focused on the fact that Lindsay had signed in voluntarily. There were no court orders, no judge, nothing forcing her to stay. He pointed out that she arrived around four in the morning on New Year's Day

and asked whether the hospital was running on a skeleton crew. She said that she couldn't speak to that because she wasn't there. But she explained that the location had four psychiatrists assigned along with nurses, social workers and mental health workers across three shifts. And then Redington walked through the intake process again, the CEC evaluation, the full psychiatric interview, the review of history, and the fact that Lindsay met two psychiatrists on January 1st.

He asked her how long those evaluations usually took, but she says she didn't know because she didn't work in that part of the hospital. And from there, he switched into whether she had truly involved, investigated Lindsay's prior psychiatric history. She said that she reviewed the CEC note, which included an excerpt from Mass General's evaluation, and she reviewed everything available from January 1st onward. But when asked whether she contacted Lindsay's previous providers, she admitted that she hadn't done that.

She didn't speak to nurse practitioner Jolada. She did not access her record. She didn't ask Lindsay to sign a hippo-roids. release to obtain them. She also did not contact psychiatrist Tufts or nurse practitioner Paul. In fact, the only collateral contact was Patrick, Patrick Clancy. Redington pushed hard on that point, asking why? Why? She didn't verify Lindsay's medication history or her prior evaluations with her doctors. She said Lindsay was cooperative, reliable, and forthcoming, and she had no reason to believe Lindsay was lying or minimizing symptoms. She explained that psychiatrists rely heavily on

patient presentation, body language, eye contact, consistency, and that Lindsay appeared honest. As a psychiatrist, I mean, she's, when she goes to the hospital, she's your patient, right? She's your patient. Yes. Yes. And as a doctor, what you want to do is get all the information that's available on why this person is in your locked ward, right? Yes. So did you do inquiry into her prior history, or was that left to the CEC person or the social work? That is part of the evaluation. And the evaluation is CEC. And when I see her as well. All right. So do you sometimes, when I say you, I mean you or the social worker or the CEC person, do you talk?

to people, like third party, I think you said third party contacts? Yes. All right. The social worker does. Okay, so, and you reviewed the record. When did the social worker talk to the first psychiatrist that she went to see? The social worker contacted Patrick. Well, I know you told us that he contacted Patrick and that Patrick gave some history about the benzodiazepines

that he was concerned about and thought she wasn't. getting good medical care, is that correct? Yes. All right. You know that she had medical treatment before she came to McLean? Yes. Okay. Who was her psychiatrist?

The nurse practitioners she was seeing prior to coming to McLean, I was aware of that person. Would that be a nurse practitioner Jolada? Yes. Did you speak to her? No. Did you look at her records? I did not have access to them. Why not?

They aren't in the same medical record system. Well, the same medical record system is just so that you have access to MGH, you have access to Breggeum at Women's Hospital because it's all part of some big computer information access you have. What about other health care providers? Can you get access to their records? Not immediately. Well, how about if you have a risk? How about if you have a release signed by a patient under the HIPAA law? You know what the HIPAA is, obviously, right?

Yes. And just tell me, what does that actually mean that a patient allows someone to look at their medical records? Yes. And Gensie was very, very cooperative with you guys, wasn't she? Yes. Did anyone ever ask her to sign a HIPAA release for anyone to get access to nurse practitioner Jolada's records?

No. How about Psychiatrist's Tuff's records? No. How about Nurse Practition of Paul's records? No. Who's Letitia Dukes? She was a social worker, I think that Lindsay saw at South Shore at the perinatal program. Okay.

And do you know when she went to the South Shore, Rhode Island perinatal program? I know it was prior to admission. I don't remember the exact dates. Do you know what recommendation? that she had received at that point? No, other than the medication. Do you know what medication she was actually on when she presented to McLean Hospital?

Cerequel and Valium. Was it? Cerecle and Valium. You knew that Dr. Tufts was the first psychiatrist that she actually consulted, correct? I believe so. And when I, again, if you don't know, just say you don't know. Yes.

Okay. And I think you made reference to the fact, or maybe the DA made reference in questioning you about the fact that she was looking for doctors to, for some type of medication or something. Is that fair? I, that's a very vague statement. I don't know what you mean. Okay.

Well, actually, she saw Dr. Tufts because Dr. Tufts advertised. that she was an expert in perinatal care, right? correction. No, the rule. Oh, sorry. I wouldn't know why she saw Dr. Tufts. Do you know what medication Dr. Tufts prescribed to her? From what Lindsay told me, yes.

What? Zoloft was the first. All right. So Dr. Tufts, according to Lindsay, provided her, Lindsay, with Zoloft, which is an SSRI, correct? It's an antidepressant in that class, yes. Okay, so when you say an antidepressant in that class, the class would be selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor, right?

Yes. And that's pretty powerful stuff, isn't it? I don't know what you mean by powerful. No? Well, are you supposed to prescribe Zoloft or certuline to, a person that has bipolar? I think it all depends on what you're seeing when you see the patient. All right.

So it's important, I would imagine then, to be fair in your evaluation of this young woman that came to your hospital for help on New Year's to find out what any evaluations were of her condition, her presentation, her symptomology, when she saw that for a psychiatrist, Dr. Tufts, right? Lindsay was cooperative and she was forthcoming. I had no reason to think that she would not provide us within what other providers thought, just like she told us that Tufts said she was worried about bipolar disorder. I apologize.

Tufts advised her that she was worried about? No, sorry, it was. Gelada? Yes. Okay. Sorry, thank you. That's all right, no problem. And again, if you, if you, if you, if you, they're records you want to look at them, that's fine because I know it's tough to have all the stuff in your head. Yes. Thank you. And so Dr. Tufts prescribed the

Zolov to her and, and you knew that right after the initial prescription of Zola, do you know how many milligrams per, how many milligrams she was prescribed initially by Dr. Tufts? Lindsay, I think, stated it was 25. Okay. Okay. And then Dr. Tufts increased it to what, 100? Lindsay said it was increased to 50. 50. All right. So, and again, you're in a, I don't know if it's appropriate to say, but you're in a mental institution, right? That's where you work at McLean Hospital.

Okay. And it's a locked ward, right? Yes. And she's a patient that's coming to you for help, right? Yes. Is it appropriate for a doctor to take what that patient is telling you as a history, Or do you have to verify it or talk to other health care providers to make sure that they're not just running off and making something up? I had no reason to believe that she was not a reliable reporter. Because she seemed very forthright, right?

Yes. She seemed very honest in her disclosure of her symptomology, right? Yes. One of the things or one of the tools that you and the mental health field have access to her psychiatric test. testing, right? Yes. Okay. You have, for example, one tool, and I think psychologists, and there are psychologists

that are on staff, I would imagine at McLean as well. No, not on that unit. As a psychiatrist, you don't administer psychiatric or psychological testing, do you? No. All right. But for example, you've got the Beck inventory test, or what's called the MMPI test you're familiar with those right these are forms and yeah forms that the patient can fill out right and one of the tests is the MMPI which is Minnesota

multifacic personality inventory test right I have heard of that okay and you know that one of the things that it determines is if they call it the K-scale whether or not somebody is lying or minimizing or not minimizing but lying about their symptomology right I I don't know much about the scale. Well, that's a tool that can give someone information as to the person's presentation of their symptomology. That would be important as to their honesty of whether or not they're trying to minimize or whether or not they're trying to falsely project their symptomology, right?

I don't know what you're asking me. Okay. Wow. So the MMPI, yeah, when Reddington says that, it can show if someone's exaggerating or minimizing symptoms or things about themselves. Anyway, Reddington then asked whether she knew Lindsay had called the self-harm hotline. You guys know that we often use self-harm in replacement because of YouTube's rules. The self-harm hotline. And she said that she didn't. He asked whether she knew that Lindsay had gone 48 hours without sleep. She said that she didn't remember that specific number,

only that Lindsay struggled with insomnia. And when they reminded her that she had testified, that she wished she had had more information about Lindsay's sleep patterns, she clarified that she meant she wanted more information after discharge, not necessarily before admission. So we asked her whether she understood that patients sometimes minimize symptoms.

And she said yes, but then emphasized again that Lindsay didn't present that way. She said that Lindsay's honesty was evident in how she spoke and behaved. Okay. You ever heard of patients that minimize their symptoms and lie about their symptoms sometimes? Yes. Okay. So it's important to corroborate what the person is telling you, right? I mean, you know, you want to talk to somebody else's objective to find out what,

if any evidence there is of symptomology. And we did that with... I'm sorry? So when a patient presents and they're talking to us, it is not just about what they are saying. It's about their body language, their eye contact. You can get a sense of whether a person is being honest or whether they're lying. and we are not, you know, we are providers.

The patient is there to get help. They are going to tell us what is bothering them and what they're concerned about. That's why they're in the hospital. This woman was in a locked wood. She couldn't walk off your unit, could she? That is what a psychiatric unit is. Right.

And she was very sick, wasn't she? I don't know what you mean by very sick. Really? You indicated that you would assume that she would take what I prescribed. Do you do that with all of your patients, assume that when they had mental disease or a defect, that they would do what they're told? If they are cooperative and they have been cooperative and reliable, yes. One of the things that's referenced would be she stated that she had intrusive thoughts.

Yes. Yes. What were the intrusive thoughts? From what I, from what stated in the medical record, thoughts of suicide. And how often would she have the intrusive thoughts? I don't recall if the frequency. Would you agree with me that in addition to anxiety,

and in addition to inability to sleep, that she was in what was self-described as a brain fog, right? She complained of feeling, yeah, you can complain of feeling foggy. She also complained about that she felt as if she was a zombie, right? She did not use those words. Anybody else used that word describing her in your investigation? No. Did Patrick tell you that he was,

concerned about the medications that she had been prescribed over the past two or three months? Yes. And you knew what the medications were that she was prescribed, correct? She told us. She told you, okay. And she told you that she was prescribed in addition to the SSRI Zoloft that was increased from 25 to 100, that she was then told, I was sorry, 50. Correct.

to stop taking the Zolov by Dr. Tufts, right? She reported not being able to sleep, and they agreed that she would not take the Zoloft. Okay. So after that, Reddington then digs into the medication history, which we've dug into it with a few other witnesses. But he asked whether she knew Zoloft had been prescribed by Dr. Tuth, starting at 25 milligrams and increased to 50, she said she only knew what Lindsay had told her.

He asked whether she knew Lindsay had stopped so loft because she couldn't sleep. She said Lindsay reported discussing that with Tufts. He asked whether she assumed Lindsay voluntarily stopped it. She said she assumed they made that decision together. When Reddington asked how many patients she had treated with postpartum psychosis, she said she didn't think she ever had. She had treated many patients with postpartum depression, but postpartum psychosis wasn't something she recalled theme. He asked about the DSM and whether postpartum psychosis was included.

She said that she didn't know exactly where it was categorized and explained that different organizations defined postpartum timeframes differently, four weeks in DSM-5, 12 weeks in ACOG, and up to 12 months for the CDC. So he asks whether she knew about efforts to include postpartum psychosis in the DSM6, and she said she was vaguely aware that clinicians were discussing where it should be placed. And then Reddington moved to thyroid testing. She said thyroid levels can affect mood and anxiety, but there are only one small component of evaluation. The clean didn't run thyroid labs during Lindsay's stay. The only thyroid result in the record was an older one imported from Mass General. She said it was within normal limits, but she didn't remember the year. He asked about the Edinburgh Postpartum Depression Scale.

She said it wasn't administered because their unit didn't routinely use scales. And when asked why not, she said scales don't determine diagnosis. Psychiatrist diagnosed based on presentation and history. Reddington pressed her again on investigation pointing out that she didn't administer psychological tests. She didn't contact prior providers, didn't obtain outside records, and did not run drug-level blood tests. She explained that psychiatry doesn't rely on blood levels for antidepressants or antipsychotics. That is true. And that the hospital only tested for substances of abuse, which Lindsay did not have. Take a listen. Post-Botom Depression Scale.

Was that administered to Lindsay when she was in for the four days and a half that she was in here at the hospital? No. Why not? Because we don't necessarily administer skills. You don't necessarily what? We don't administer skills. What? That's an accepted tool to evaluate a patient as a psychiatrist or a psychologist, isn't it?

It is a tool, but it doesn't in the end determine the diagnosis. Oh, no, of course not, because the doctor who supposedly has access to the person's medical history and all of the other aspects of your evaluation is the one that gives the diagnosis, right? The psychiatrist makes the diagnosis based on the presentation the history of the patient. Right. So so far what we've got is a presentation of the patient who was in the locked wards at McLean Hospital and the presentation was from her, right? Her presentation is how she presents, how she is observed. It's not what she's telling us. Well, isn't what she's telling you part of what you consider? Yes.

Okay. And what Patrick's telling you is part of what you consider? Yes. So other than what Lindsay, who was in the locked ward, tells you and her husband who tells you what, if any, investigation did you do? We did not do any additional collateral contact. And you didn't do any tests either, right? You didn't do it. Did you do a blood test?

Psychiatry as a field is not dependent on blood tests if it was that simple. it would be much better for everybody. It's based on the evaluation of the patient who's sitting in front of you. So you're suggesting to this jury that it's not a valid medical step for one to take, to take blood from a person

who is on a cocktail of drug medications to find out what their levels are? No, not a regular procedure at all. Okay. Now, McLean did not take any blood. McLean did not do the Edenberg scale, but that would be something that you would be interested in, right, as to whether or not anyone else gave her the Edenberg depression scale. Let me clarify one thing. McLean did, but did draw blood. They did do test whether they, they were testing levels of drugs. drugs so we clarify that so that okay so valuation but it had nothing to do with what was on board as they say as far as tracts antipsychotics ssrides anything right they check for substances of abuse but nothing else well there were no substances of abuse in her blood whether no

How about the tricyclics, the antipsychotics, the SSRIs, the benzodiazepines, the Z drugs that they call some of their categories. They don't test for that, did they? Those are not tested on a regular basis. How about on her basis? I don't know why I would have tested for those. What would happen to the indication? How about if she presents and the history that she's giving you? is that she was on a number of drugs for that three-month period or three and a half-month

period, would it be of interest to you as to what was on board in her blood? Medications have different half-lifes. So if she had taken something, it would depend on what the half-life was. If it was a day, it would be out of her system. I would not be, we would not be able to catch it at that time. It would depend on what she'd been taking. and, you know, what was in her bloodstream at that point. All right. So then this is this moment. Let's talk about this moment.

There's this brief break before the next witness. And during this part, there were some pretty big allegations made by Reddington about something he believes. The state said yesterday during a hot mic, I will say this is being disputed on the internet. Some people think that this is not. what was said on a hot mic that it was found, but the allegation was made,

take a listen to this. The witness on the back on the stand? Your Honor, first of all, I want to raise an issue with you, and I think it's really, I don't want to go to the sidebar. I really don't want to go to the sidebar. I need to know what you're going to talk about before. I want to tell you that they get picked up on a hot mic

saying shut her up during the playing of that autopsy. All right. This is not my handmaid's tales. I'm not doing that at all. I just want to find out what the issue is. There's a lot of privileged issues, and then you can tell me that. I mean, that was like, I don't know. That was like a bad Thanksgiving dinner or something.

I don't know. Things got heated really fast there between the judge and Reddington, and then you can see the prosecution, Buckingham Bow, and. you know, Sprague, we're looking at each other like, we didn't do that. He clearly didn't want the sidebar. He wanted what he was saying on the record. He wanted a bit of a show there, I think. Interesting, though, right? I will say that people have been looking online trying to find that moment on the hot mic. It was found. There is debate as to what was said. It wasn't, it might not have been shut her up. It might have been something completely different. But quite an accusation.

to have been heard, right, by the jury. So let me know what you guys think about that. After that break, Redington cross-exam continued his cross-exam by asking whether Goodhart knew that Lindsay had been prescribed multiple medications in a month before admission. SSRIs, benzodiazepines, antipsychotics, sleep medications. She said she only knew what Lindsay reported. That's sort of her go-to answer. And then when asked whether she knew Lindsay had describe feeling foggy, like a zombie. She said, Lindsay never used the word zombie, but she did complain of numbness and fogginess. So then on redirect, Buckingham, Buckingham and her bow, we're going to talk about her bow later because the bow, the internet's

talking about the bow. So we're going to discuss the bow a little bit more later. But Buckingham brought Dr. Goodhart back to the discharge paperwork. The after-visit summary, Lindsay received when she left to McLean. It included two packets, one, six pages long, and the other seven, and both laid out emergency numbers, crisis instructions, and the suicide prevention lifeline. It also spelled out what Lindsay was supposed to do next. And one of the instructions told her to call Cassandra Wilson, the Blue Cross Blue Shield case manager for help finding community behavioral health providers. And that came from conversations Lindsay had had with her about wanting more options and wanting a new provider. Lindsay already had a provider and prescriber.

And she was supposed to be assigned a therapist through South Shore, but she wanted more choices. So the case manager was listed as a resource. The packet also included a section labeled community services, online resources, directions to contact her primary care doctor and reminders to readdors to readdardes to reach out to her insurance company. All of that had been discussed with Lindsay before she left. Buckingham pointed out that Lindsay had participated in groups during her stay. Sessions focused on illness and symptom management, self-compassion and other skills.

The judge cut off part of that line of questioning, but the point was made. Lindsay wasn't just sitting in her room. She was engaging. Buckingham then moved to the defense's repeated references to the unit being locked, a locked unit. Well, Dr. Goodhart explained, well, yeah, she explained, yes, it was locked, but only for patient safety. And Lindsay had voluntarily agreed to be there. She wasn't forced. She wasn't committed. She chose to stay until she felt safe enough to leave. When Lindsay arrived, she was assessed as low risk and placed on the lowest level of check. She was also very clear about how long she wanted to stay.

She talked openly, but wanting to be home for her daughter's birthday party. Remember, Cora was a Christmas Eve baby, so they were having a birthday party for her in January. Dr. Goodhart respected that and worked with her so that she could be home for her birthday party with her daughter. Buckingham asked whether she would have preferred more time with Lindsay, more time to explore the root causes of her insomnia and numbness. and she said, yes, she would have loved more time. She had observed improvements. Lindsay was sleeping better. Her mood had improved,

but she hadn't had enough time to dig into the deeper issues. And then Buckingham revisited the question about releases. The defense had asked her why she didn't ask Lindsay to sign a HIPAA release to obtain outside record. And she explained that she didn't ask for releases with every patient. It depended on how reliable the patient seemed, whether their story stayed consistent across evaluations, whether collateral information was already available. And in Lindsay's case, she had already been evaluated in the ER at the CEC by Dr. Madva and by her. And then Patrick Clancy had also provided collateral information. Nothing, Lindsay said,

conflicted with what they observed, so she didn't feel an urgent need to chase down outside records. Buckingham asked whether anything Lindsay reported, contradicted what the team observed. She said, no, Lindsay's presentation matched her words, and then they talked again about medication levels. The defense asked, had asked, why she didn't check blood levels for antidepressants or antipsychotics. She explained that there was no reason to. Lindsay's medication regimen didn't require level monitoring, the treatment plan didn't require it either. They cleaned you blood on admission, but only to check for substances of abuse, not medication levels. Buckingham brought up the brain fog issue. Lindsay had complained about

feeling foggy, but nurses had documented improved memory and concentration during her stay. She also addressed the self-harm hotline questions. Dr. Goodhart explained that this hotline, the suicide hotline, assesses for imminent risk, intent, plan, immediate danger, and Lindsay had never reported having a plan. She had had those self-harm thoughts, but not, no intent and no plan. Buckingham pulled out the DSM-5, and she reminded the jury that postpartum depression and postpartum psychosis do appear in the DSM, just not as a standalone category. They're mentioned within discussions of mood disorders, including bipolar disorder and major depressive episodes. Dr. Goodhart agreed. I thought this was interesting that the prosecution was bringing this up, because

that I felt kind of helped the defense. But she said the DSM was just one tool. Diagnoses came from observation, patient history, family input, and any available records. And her diagnosis did not have to match anyone else's. She treated the patient in front of her, not the version of the patient for months earlier. And that closed up, redirect. So up next is Dr. Jennifer Tops, a very important witness. very important witness. She introduced herself as a psychiatrist at after mental health. But really quickly, before we get into Dr. Tufts, I want to read a comment here. First off, I'm loving the time I have to watch these clips with all of you and see your mini comments. And I try, if you have noticed, to publish a variety of opinions because I love the varying opinions here. Then Irish eyes are

smiling, row, and I, and I starred this, Lauren, I respect you so much. Thank you. That's very kind. And your amazing dedication. You're an intelligent lady. Thank you for thinking that. Surely you see she's guilty. She didn't have psychosis. So when it comes to me, I am following the evidence. I don't know. I know enough to know that I don't know. I always follow sort of the, you don't know what you don't know. I don't think any of us know, right? There are things we know. There are things we don't know. And then there are things we don't know. We don't know all the evidence. And I don't know Lindsay Clancy personally. And I wasn't there that day. And I don't know Patrick Clancy. And I don't know her like the witnesses on the stand and know her. And one thing I always say is, I always say,

certainty is more dangerous than doubt, in my opinion, to question your certainties. Don't, I mean, doubting your doubts is fine, but I actually think people need to doubt their certainties. And sometimes when I feel so certain about something, then I try to lean back and question my biases. I've shared a lot with a lot of you. I'm looking for a solid motive beyond mental health reasons that, that Lindsay killed her three precious children. I haven't seen one yet besides maybe a mental

break, but I'm listening. I'm paying attention. I don't know. So I'm in the camp. I just wanted you all to know of I don't know what I don't know. And that's where I feel comfortable being right now. Because I want justice for Cora Dawson and Callan. And I've always said from the very beginning of this, I don't know what justice looks like in this case. I don't know that. So this case, as I've also always said, is a why-dedded case. It's not a who-done-it. We all know that.

We all know who did this. I think the question at hand is why, and I don't know what I don't know, and I am going to doubt my certainties until I hear everything. So I want to say thank you to all of those that are sharing your varying opinions in chat. I value them. Thank you to those who are not all capping things to keep things feeling a little calmer. And thank you for all of those respecting, differing opinions. And thank you, Irish Eyes, for your compliment.

Anyway, up next is Jennifer Toffs, as I kept saying, a very, very important witness. So she's a psychiatrist and asked her mental health. She had gone to medical school at the University of Vermont, finished her psychiatry residency at Boston Medical Center and had been fully licensed for about four years. She confirmed that Lindsay Clancy was one of her patients. And she first saw Lindsay on September 15th, 2022. And before that appointment, Lindsay filled out a long intake packet that covers past medical history, psychiatric history, medication, substance use, names of other providers and several screening scales for anxiety, depression, ADHD, and more. Lindsay completed all of that on September

12, three days before the appointment and Dr. Tufts reviewed it ahead of time. And from those forms, she learned that Lindsay had taken Prozac and Welbutrin back in nursing school and reported no side effects. Prozac is an SSRI and Lindsay had tolerated it well. She also reported no history of abuse. She listed her alcohol use as one to two drinks at a time, up to five times a week. and she checked yes when asked if she felt guilty about that. So she was drinking. And she listed her height as 5 foot 6. The symptom checklist, Lindsay filled out, showed anxiety attacks, decreased appetite,

depressed mood, distraction, excessive worry, guilt, and inability to fill pleasure, trouble falling asleep, and raising thoughts. She did not check off risky behavior, excessive energy, hopelessness, abandonment, emptiness or impulsivity. I think it's interesting what she didn't check out. She also completed a self-harm risk assessment. Every answer was no. She reported no, no self-harm wishes, no recent events making her not want to live, no plan, no access to weapons, no attempts, no self-harm, no hallucinations telling her to hurt herself or others, no violent thoughts. All 10 questions were answered, no, no, no, no. Her substance was a lot, no, no, no. Her substance

use assessment showed no issues. Her ADHD self-report didn't raise concern. She answered often on a few items, but nothing that suggested ADHD once the full picture was considered. Her generalized anxiety disorder screening was highly suggestive of anxiety. She reported feeling nervous nearly every day, worrying nearly every day, and several other symptoms happening frequently. And that lined up with what she had written earlier. She also filled out a PHQ 9 depression questionnaire. Some answers were positive, meaning she endorsed symptoms that required assessment for depression. For example, she reported feeling down or hopeless more than half the days.

That's hopeless. More than half your days is pretty bad. When the appointment began, it was done through telehealth. She appeared alone. Dr. Tufts followed her usual process, introducing herself, asking why Lindsay was there exploring mood symptoms, anxiety symptoms, psychosis symptoms, mania symptoms, safety concerns, and then reviewing history, medication, substance abuse, and goals. Lindsay told her she did not have suicidal intent, homicidal intent, or hallucinations.

And when asked about mania, none of her answers suggested that she had ever experienced manic episodes. Dr. Tufts explained that mania can often be spotted without even asking, things like excessive of energy, euphoric mood, pressurized speech, agitation, and disoriented or disorganized thinking. Lindsay didn't present with any of that. She evaluated Lindsay's appearance, attitude, speech, mood, thought process, and thought content. Lindsay didn't appear disheveled, agitated, or uncooperative. Her speech was normal.

Her thoughts were organized. Nothing she said was bizarre or paranoid. There were no signs of psychosis. She also assessed judgment, insight, orientation, memory, attention, concentration, and her knowledge. Lindsay had no issues in any of those areas. She was oriented, thoughtful, attentive. She was able to recall details clearly. And then Lindsay, when Lindsay described her mood, she said she felt okay.

Her effect, meaning how she actually appeared, looked anxious. Dr. Tufts explained that she couldn't remember the exact. physical cues, but generally she looked for things like a quivering voice, shaking or visible nervousness. Lindsay's psychomotor behavior was normal. The appointment lasted about 50 to 60 minutes, which was typical for an initial evaluation. And when they discussed treatment, Lindsay said her biggest concern was anxiety. So based on everything she had reported and everything Dr. Tuft Tufts observed, she recommended Zoloft, also known as surgery. It's a first-line medication for anxiety disorders and one of the safest SSRIs for breastfeeding mothers.

So she prescribed 25 milligrams for the first week and then an increase to 50 milligrams. She explained the medication, the side effects, and answered Lindsay's questions. Lindsay was reluctant because she worried about side effects, but she was open to learning about options. She also recommended individual therapy, and Lindsay did follow through with that. Her therapist had asked her mental health was Jennifer Malister. And as the psychiatrist, Dr. Tufts oversaw Lindsay's overall treatment and reviewed the therapy notes as part of the process. The treatment goals listed in the record were symptom reduction and improved functioning.

Those goals came from that standard option in the electronic medical record, chosen based on what she and Lindsay discussed. Her initial diagnosis were generalized anxiety disorder and adjustment disorder with depressed mood. Generalized anxiety disorder meant Lindsay had broad, persistent worries and physical symptoms of anxiety. Adjustment disorder meant she had some depressive symptoms tied to life stressors, but not enough to meet criteria for major depressive disorder. and then the judge called afternoon recess. And after the jury left, he issued a warning that there are cameras all around the courtroom and that if anyone is heard saying anything inappropriate, they will be removed for the remainder of the trial.

The judge got serious. Listen to this. Before we recess, I just want to make a, I guess a comment. I just want to make it real clear. that there is to be no inappropriate comments or disruptive comments to be made inside of this courtroom. If anybody is found to make those, they will be immediately escorted out

and barred for the balance of this. I just wanna make that real clear. And just in case you're wondering, there are microphones all around. And so if we hear, if I get a report of that, there's gonna be some serious issues serious problems. I just kind of wanted to put that out for everybody so it's crystal clear. Is there going to be no warnings, no yellow cards, you're out. All right? So I just kind of want to

make that real clear. And so with that, we'll be in recess on this matter until 2 o'clock. And so after lunch, Dr. Tufts walked through the history of present illness section. So history of present illness is a section that she had written during that first September 15th appointment. Everything in that section came straight from Lindsay, things like how Prozac had helped her back in nursing school, how she got in treatment after her second baby, and how she had tried Zoloft for one week during that postpartum period but felt nervous about breastfeeding. Lindsay had mentioned some initial side effects back that nothing alarming, just the typical early SSRI discomfort that usually fade like stomach upset or appetite changes.

She also told Dr. Tuft, she was three months postpartum with Callan and had a four-year-old and a two-year-old at home. She said that she felt overwhelmed. The baby needed more attention. The older kids were more challenging and she was having trouble leaving the baby because she felt too anxious. She described physical tension, erasing heart, and constant worry that he wouldn't eat or sleep because he refused the bottle. And all of that made her irritable. In that same note, Dr. Tufts documented that Lindsay denied hallucinations, denied homicidal ideation, self-harm ideation, and said that she had no concerns about harming the baby. She also gave Lindsay instructions about what to do if emergencies came up between appointments, things like going to the ER, calling 911, or using the suicide prevention hotline.

Lindsay had access to that treatment plan through the patient portal. And the plan after that first appointment was to start surceruline, start therapy, and follow up with her. They had discussed alternatives too, including not taking medication at all, which Lindsay had already been doing. And after going over everything, Lindsay understood the plan and agreed to it. That was her informed consent. Her next appointment was September 28th. Lindsay told her she had picked up the Zoloft, but decided not to take it. she said she felt a little bit better, right? Because the baby was sleeping more, which meant that

she was sleeping more. Dr. Tufts did another mental status exam. Lindsay was alert, oriented, appropriately dressed, cooperative. Her affect was full. Her speech, thought, content, thought process. They were all appropriate. She showed no hallucinations. Her insight was listed as poor, though, because she still had significant anxiety and didn't want to try medication. Her judgment was excellent, cognition intact, and psychomotor activity normal. They talked about the difference between psychiatrists and psychologists. Psychiatrists are medical doctors who can prescribe medication. Psychologists cannot in the state of Massachusetts when asked about lab work.

She explained that none had been ordered because it wasn't necessary. off doesn't require blood monitoring, and Lindsay wasn't taking it yet anyway. The appointment notes showed 17 minutes, but she clarified, she clarified that the only, it was only the therapy portion, the 17 minutes. The full appointment was a total of 25 minutes, which was standard. Tuff explained that therapy and medication discussions blend together naturally, and she could go over time as something urgent came up. She said that Lindsay never, requested longer appointments. So that September 28th appointment was also virtual and Lindsay appeared alone.

The plan again was to pause the medication discussion and have her meet with a therapist, Jennifer McAllister. Lindsay said she would schedule it and the next appointment was October 3rd. Lindsay had reached out through the portal asking for maternity leave extension paperwork. She just said she felt just, in quotes, better enough to function. without medication, end quote. But she didn't feel mentally well enough to return to nursing with a baby

who still wouldn't take a bottle. She said going back to work would trigger her anxiety too much. She said if she could send a form for Dr. Tuffs to fill out, Dr. Tuffs responded that they should go through it together during an appointment, which is why that October 3rd visit happened. Lindsay later messaged again on October 10th

saying part of the form needed to be changed the section that made it look like she could work reduced hours immediately when she and Dr. Tufts had discussed not returning until January 1st. She asked if the form could be corrected, and Dr. Tuft said she would send an updated version. During that October 3rd appointment, Lindsay told her she was on the verge of starting the medication. Her anxiety had crept back up. She said she wanted to try therapy first, but she hadn't met with McAllister yet. Records showed that she saw McAllister later that same day. And in that therapy session, Lindsay described her parents as supportive and stable.

She said she had an older sister two and a half hours away. She said she wasn't close with her in-laws and didn't usually let them watch the kid, but she saw them often because they were Patrick's parents. Dr. Tufts reviewed McAllister's note as part of a team-based approach, she explained. And then she did another mental status exam that day and Lindsay's insight was still poor, for the same reason as before. Then the next appointment, the next appointment was October 20th.

Yeah. And then Lindsay told her that she had finally started Zoloft and had taken it for one week. Let's watch that. When she told you she increased the dose, she told you she now feels awful. Is that correct? Yes.

And what was it that was bothering her? She was having increased difficulty sleeping. She had loss of appetite, diarrhea. She was feeling her mood was down. She was tearful and feeling very foggy and feeling very anxious. Now, what is the lowest dose of Zoloft that you would prescribe a patient or could prescribe? The smallest pill is 25. And what's the highest dose of Zoloft?

200. So she was on the lowest dose of 25. Is that correct? Yes. And then according to what she told you, she had increased for one night to 50 milligrams. Is that correct? Yes. Do she also tell you she was scared to start something new?

Yes. Is that in terms of another medication? Yes. So what was your discussion with Ms. Clancy when she's telling you that she's having these issues with Soloff, but she's afraid to try something new? So we discussed what to do moving forward. So we discussed whether it would make sense to switch to a different medication at that point. And at that moment, because of her negative experience with the Zoloft, she did not want to start a new medication at that point.

At this meeting with her, did you ask her if she had any suicidal thoughts? Yes. What was her response? No. Did you ask her if she had any homicidal ideation or thoughts? Yes. What was her response? No.

Did you ask her if she was hearing any voices or seeing any visual hallucinations? I'm not sure if I asked that in that appointment, but she was very clearly not psychotic. And why do you say that? Because of how I described some of the signs of psychosis that are on the mental status exam. None of those were present. What was her affect during this meeting? It was depressed. And did you write that she was, strike that?

What was it about her affect that made you write that she was depressed? She visually appeared like she was feeling sad. And her mood, how did she report that to you? That was depressed. depressed as well and anxious. What about her thought content and process that day? That was appropriate. And her speech? It was appropriate. And her judgment in cognitive skills? Her judgment was excellent and her cognition didn't have any deficits. And her psychomotor activity? Normal. So the main change here from

previous visits was that she appeared depressed. and anxious. Yes. Although she had appeared anxious that first visit, correct? Yes. So to make sure we have the timeline correct, the first visit she appeared anxious, the second visit she appeared to be doing better. The third visit, she still had that poor insight when you met about the paperwork, and then

this fourth visit, she appears depressed. Is that correct? Yes. Did she also tell you that she was worried about? about getting suicidal thoughts. Yes. And so that would have come directly from her, correct? Yes.

And what were the details of that conversation? So it was one of the things that she was anxious about. It was a fear of one day having suicidal thoughts if she were to continue to feel poorly. Okay. And showing you page 77. exhibit 219. I know you said it earlier, you weren't sure if you asked her about audio or visual hallucinations, but just directing your attention to the, to the interval history if that

refreshes your memory? Yes. So did you ask her about audio hallucinations? On the 21st, I did. Okay. All right, so then there was an appointment the following day on October 21st? Yes. So why did she have an appointment that following day?

Because she was feeling pretty poorly after starting the Zoloft, so we were following her closely. And at that point, you knew that she had had an appointment on the third with Ms. McAllister, correct? Yes. And do you know whether or not she had followed up making another appointment or was struggling with that? I she was planning on making another appointment I don't know when that second appointment was scheduled when you that first appointment where she was seeming depressed and having issues with so left on October 20th did you tell her to stop taking the medication at that point yes I did and did you discuss other

options with her other than medication like natural remedies yes and what type of natural remedies did you discuss with Ms. Clancy? So I mentioned things like fish oils, something called L-Methylide or Seam, these are supplements. And is that, why would you offer alternative remedies to a patient? So it was because she seemed reluctant to start a prescribed medication. I thought she might be more open to something that was natural. So you weren't pushing her to take a prescription medication, correct? No. Now, on October 21st, when you saw her, did she tell you that she hadn't been able to get any sleep the night before?

Yes. You've already said she told you she wasn't having audio or visual hallucinations, correct? Yes. Did you ask her if she was having suicidal ideation or homicidal ideation? Yes. And what was her response? No. What was her affect that day?

It was depressed. And did she tell you during your conversation that day that she had been anxious all day, not depressed or irritable getting better? Yes. Okay, so she's telling you she's not depressed, but her affect to you appeared depressed. Is that correct? Yes.

And is that for the same reasons you stated earlier, those visual cues that you saw? Yes. Did she appear hyper or manic in any way? No. Was there any changes in her rate of speech? or pattern of speech? No.

Was there any difference in her mental status exam? And this appointment, was this, this appointment virtual as well? Yes. Had all your appointments up to this point been virtual? Yes. Was she alone in that virtual meeting? Yes. What was the plan that was formulated on October 21st?

So the plan was that she start a medication called Adiard? to be taken as needed, which means not necessarily every day, but in the instance of severe anxiety. And how did you explain to Ms. Clancy when to take the medication? I don't remember exactly how I explained that. So in general, as a psychiatrist, when you're prescribing a medication like Ativan and you're telling a patient to take as needed, what does that mean? So it means when the symptoms are present and in this case, in particular, when the symptoms are severe. So with Ms. Clancy, what were the symptoms that she was experiencing that made you decide that Ativan would be an appropriate medication?

Anxiety. So would it be when she was feeling anxious, feeling those symptoms of the anxiety that she should take the medication? Yes. And what was the dose again? 0.5. What's the lowest dose of Ataven you can give? 0.5. What's the highest dose? Maybe 2. So you started her at the lowest dose, the 0.5.

Yes. And was there a specific time frame that you wanted her to try this in? Yes, this was for one week. And was the prescription for a one week amount, or is it hard to tell that because it's as needed? It's hard to tell that without seeing exactly how many pills were prescribed. And was there also, again, a recommendation to go to Ms. McAllister for therapy? Yes. On October 26th, Lindsay told her that the Ativan didn't help her sleep, but did make her feel less anxious.

She also said Benadryl helped, which she had taken on her own. Dr. Tufts was glad that something was helping. Lindsay denied having self-harm or homicidal ideation. She showed no signs of psychosis. She communicated clearly. She understood everything, had no trouble following the conversation. During that appointment, Lindsay mentioned that she had an upcoming therapy appointment with McAllister. And after that visit, the plan switched again.

Lindsay felt the Zoloff side effects and finally worn off. But the anxiety she had had from the beginning was still there. So they talked about trying a new medication Busebar 5 milligrams twice a day. But it was the lowest dose. Busspar was mild, well tolerated, and often used when someone had trouble with other medications. It was supposed to lower anxiety. She could still take out of that as needed during several moments since this dose was low to help right away. excuse me.

And then there was also a note about hydroxazine, another antihistamine similar to Benadryl. Hydroxazine was actually indicated for anxiety, so it was a safer option than relying on adivant. And the idea was to give her several tools. Buesper twice a day, hydroxazine is needed in an avidivine, only if things got really bad. Lindsay was still nervous about medication in general, but she agreed to the plan after they talked through it. Her next therapy appointment was October 31st, and Dr. Tufts reviewed those notes before seeing

her again. Lindsay's next appointment with her was November 2nd. Excuse me, I'll put my tea down. All right, so November 2nd, that one was virtual too. Lindsay told her she hadn't started the abuse bar. She was too afraid to begin another medication. She was still using Ativan. They didn't talk much about.

about bend adril or hydroxazine. Her affect looked appropriate. She described her mood as sort of basically neutral. She just denied again any ideations, no signs of psychosis. Then they talked about alternatives to A-A-V-A-Van because A-Av-Van, it's not meant to be long-term, right? It's carried with dependency or addiction risk. So they suggested other options. Remeron, Trazidone, Hydroxidine, those were all safer.

They could help with sleep and anxiety. Her mental status exam hadn't changed. They decided to taper the ad-of-end slowly, reducing it by 0.25 milligrams every two weeks. That way she wouldn't experience withdrawal. They didn't choose a replacement medication yet. And her next appointment was November 22nd. So Lindsay tells her that she's enrolled in the South Shore perinatal mental health clinic. And that was the first time that Dr. Tuss had learned about it.

Lindsay said she was transferring her care there. She also said that she was starting Prozac. At that point, she was still taking Ativan and Benadryl for sleep. She denied any ideations of any sort, no psychosis once again, and also said that she was transferring her therapy to South Shore. So the plan was for her care to continue there instead of with Astor Mental Health. They also talked about a return to work letter. Lindsay requested it. Dr. Tufts provided one. she didn't remember the exact day that Lindsay was supposed to return to work, but she didn't think that it was immediate, even though Lindsay had said she was transferring care. She scheduled another appointment with Dr. Tufts for December 1st, and she told her she hadn't

returned to work and wasn't getting better. She had been, she had tried tapering off Ativan, but without it she couldn't sleep. She had tried several medications from South Shore, Tracadone, Ativan, Benadryl-Prozac with Ativan, Benadryl, Remedon, Remeron, excuse me, Clonopin, Remeron with Syracwell. Some made her disoriented, some worsened her sleep, some caused rebound anxiety. Some didn't help at all. She said she had intrusive thoughts on Remeron, not ideation thoughts, just intrusive thoughts, like feeling like she was going to die. She denied, again, the ideation, but said she felt close to it. And she says she felt hopeless. She also told Dr. Tufts, I think it's my problem. This isn't quote, so it's

important. I think it's my problem. I keep reaching out to different people and not sticking with the plan, end quote. They talked about that and that Dr. Tufts advised her to have one person managing her medications so things did not get so confusing. She explained why sticking with a plan mattered. Psychiatric medications, they don't work immediately. Sometimes, take weeks to take effect. The brain needs time to adjust. They also talked about bipolar disorder. They did because Lindsay had reacted poorly to some medications and had insomnia, so they explored whether bipolar disorder was a possibility, right? But Lindsay didn't meet the criteria. She had no history of euphoria, pressurized speech or pressured speech, no grandiosity or risky

behavior or decreased need for sleep. Nothing in her answers suggested. mania, which would go with bipolar. So the plan after that December 1st appointment was for Lindsay to continue with South Shore considering taking Syracille without the Remeron and possibly starting Lamotrigine, which is used for depression and mood stabilization. They also talked about a partial hospitalization program, which is sort of a structured daytime program who need more support, but they don't require full inpatient care.

So Lindsay was given that information and told that she could call to schedule an intake. Dr. Tufts did not reach out to South Shore records or ask Lindsay to sign a release. She said that Lindsay was medically sophisticated, right? She is a nurse. She communicated clearly and always updated her on what other providers were doing. Lindsay was a labor and delivering her. She understood medications well. Her next appointment was January 6th.

Lindsay had just been discharged from McLean Hospital. She told her that she was still depressed and believed Syracille had caused it. She said McLean had tapered her off Syracille. She was told she told her that she was now on trazodone 100 milligrams, Atavann 1 milligram, and then melatonin 5 milligrams, all low doses. She denied ideations of any sort. Again, again, no psychosis was reported. She said the adivan helped at night, but it didn't make her anxious once it wore off in the morning.

Trazadone caused no side effects. Melatonin was just, you know, a sleep regulating supplement. Love my melatonin. She said her mood felt numb. Her affect matched that she appeared depressed. So then they were like, okay, let's increase trazodon to 150 milligrams, monitor her depression now that she was off the syracoyle and continue adivant and melatonin. And in the record, her condition was listed as deteriorating. That's important. So her condition, after all of these attempts, her condition is listed as deteriorating. But Dr. Tufts explained that just one of the three options, improving unchanged or deteriorating. Lindsay wasn't improving and she wasn't unchanged.

Thus, deteriorating was the closest of those three options where she has to pick one. there was nothing about her presentation that suggested she was in imminent danger. If she had been, Dr. Tuff said she would have issued a section 12 to send her to the hospital. She didn't feel that was necessary. Next appointment, January 9th, we're getting closer to that tragic day. Now we're at January 9th. Lindsay said the increased Trasidone health. She did still have rebound anxiety when Ativan wore off.

Her mood was okay. It was very flat. She said that she could laugh a little. She had any recent ideations. She denied psychosis. Once again, they talked about starting an antidepressant because she wasn't improving off Syracille. They discussed amatryptylene and Welbutrin.

Well, Butrin was something she had taken in nursing school. They didn't choose a medication that day because they made another change, switching her from Ativan to Valium. Valium had a longer half-life. So what that means is it's stayed in the body longer because remember she's she's she's experiencing these, this rebound anxiety, right? So that so now they're saying, okay, well, Valium will say in the body longer, we can avoid that sort of rebound anxiety. It was also easier to taper. She wanted to be off at a van and able to sleep without it. They talked about how rebound anxiety works. So when

medication wears off, the anxiety comes back worse. They talked about half life, how long it takes the body to break down half the medication. Valian's longer half life made it smoother so that a couple days later on January 11, Lindsay emails Dr. Toffs. Now we're on January 11th. Remember, everything horrific happened on January, January 24th. So now we're on 11th. And then in January 11th, Lindsay emails her asking about ketamine therapy. She says she still felt very low, had no motivation. She was desperate, in other words, for something that would work quickly. So she's like, hey, ketamine therapy, Dr. Tufts. She asked if that might be an option.

Dr. Tufts told her that ketamine could be helpful for treatment-resistant depression. Insurance usually required trying four antidepressants first. She said, Lindsay, might need to try another medication before ketamine would even be considered. So then the next appointment's January 16th. We're getting closer to the date. Lindsay's mood still very low. She said she could get out of bed, take care of basic things, take care of the baby, but she felt like the bonding was forced.

That's a concern. Now she's feeling like bonding with her baby's force. She denied any ideations, again, showed no signs of psychosis, I should say, no signs of psychosis on January 16th. they talked once again about now tapering the Valium because Lindsay didn't want to rely on benzodiazepines to sleep at all. She agreed to the taper. So she went from Adamant Valium.

Now she's trying to taper Valium. And then that day they finally chose an antidepressant amatryptylene. And it's an older medication that could help with depression. It could help with insomnia, even headaches. So she starts a lower dose, January 16th, 10 milligrams. Her mood and affect were depressed. and flat. Again, denies self-harm thoughts. Showed no signs of psychosis still. No reason to issue a section 12. Remember, section 12 is someone that needs to go to inpatient. Like, they're just transferred.

Her next appointments, January 23rd. That's the day before, 24 hours before her children are killed by her. strangled. So this appointment, Lindsay says she had started the amatryptoly. She did not report any side effects. She said she was doing all right, though more anxious. She said her heart raced. Her appetite was down. Mornings were harder because she was only on two milligrams of valium at that point. Her mood was flat, anxious, numb. She said she had to force herself to get out of bed and out of the house. But she was able to do it. She said she was sleeping okay, denied ideation of any sort, homicidal or self-harm suicidal. She showed again, allegedly no signs of psychosis on January 23rd, 24 hours before the worst possible thing happens.

Her speech is normal. Her thinking is clear, according to Dr. Tufts. Her communication's intact. Her judgment's still excellent. Her insight still poor. Mostly because she kept attributing her depression to medication rather than accepting she was depressed, according to Dr. Tufts. Interesting.

So in Lindsay's mind, this is the medications issue, not the fact that she's suffering from depression. Her appearance was appropriate. her rapport normal, her cognitive abilities were fine. Her psychomotor activity was normal. The plan was to slow down the valium, taper, slow down the tapering of the valium. Because she was feeling more anxious.

So like slow it, slow down removing it or tapering it off. Just keep it going. Increased the amytryptylene to 20 milligrams to help with sleep and mood. She never said that she planned to harm herself. She never said she planned to harm herself. never said she planned to harm her children. Nothing in her demeanor suggested she was a danger to herself or anyone else. Again, there was no basis for a Section 12, which is an immediate transfer to inpatient. And throughout all of this, Dr. Tufts kept recommending therapy. She explained

the therapy and medication together were the most effective treatment for depression and anxiety. In other words, talk therapy. Lindsay had been encouraged to attend individual, therapy from the very beginning. And that wrapped up the day's testimony before the judge dismissed the jury for the weekend. We end there. So no cross

exam with Dr. Tufts. And we end on that last appointment. Now we know the entire process up into the horrific day. On Monday,

we should expect cross-exam with Dr. Tufts. I expect it will be fireworks from the defense. Reddington has showed us he's ready to defend his client fiercely and isn't afraid. So I don't know what all of you think. I'm still taking it in. I want to hear Cross. It sounds like Lindsay was really trying. It sounds like her doctors were really trying. I don't know. I do want to talk about one thing, though, because it is all over the internet. Can we talk about the, can we talk about the hairbow? I think we need to talk about the hairbow, the, the Buckingham hairbow, because it's all over the internet, and I have thought. So some people have said, why do you care about the hairbow? Other people really care about the hair bow. Some people think the hair bow is because of opening statements. and because because she said that Cora loved hairbows, and yes, Cora certainly did love hairbows because she's wearing them in the majority of the pictures we're seeing in court.

And why else was an adult prosecutor wear a giant hairbow in her hair if it wasn't for the purpose of Cora? Other people pointed out that the hairbow is her thing, that she wears hairbows and she has in other trials. Thus, this is just her personal fashion. sense. She likes hairbows in giant prosecution trials. She thinks like, you know, a pantsuit and a hair bow is cool. She was like, I know what I need for this, this homicide trial, a hair bow. So whatever the reason, I'm not going to pretend I know why Shannon, prosecutor Shannon Buckingham is,

is choosing a hair bow nearly every day. She has had a day where she didn't have a hair bow, but nearly every day different colors. Right. And yes, some people might think this is petty people online that we're talking about this. Leave a female's fashion choices alone because females and the way they look and their appearance is often discussed to decide whether or not they're competent and we should be focused on her brain and the arguments and not her fashion choices. So let me lay this all out here. again, I'm going to throw out that, yes, it could be a simple fashion choice and you do you, you know, like if you like hairboes while prosecuting, it wouldn't be my choice in a high-profile murder trial. But if that's her fashion choice, respect. We all have different fashion choices.

And I love people's individuality. if though, you know, it could also be something she is wearing for Cora, which a lot of people also support. Why not do that for Cora? Why not if you want justice for a five-year-old little girl named Cora? Why not wear a bow in her honor? Again, I don't know. But I do know this, that in other trials, things that represent the victims are highly discouraged. or the defendant. For example, if somebody loved the color orange

and wears the color orange all of the time, and there's an attorney that wears an orange tie all the time, but he's representing his defendant, or a defense attorney loves the color orange, but he's defending somebody that's in a gang, and this gang's color is orange. The attorney would likely maybe, opt for a different color tie or maybe go out and buy a different color tie. Often in trials,

this is where my mind's been going. Often in trials, things like this are discouraged. You can't wear wrist to represent, like, you know, wristbands to represent victims. You can't wear something that shows a support or a representation of a victim you're defending or a prosecutor. many times a judge will put a stop to that, even if it's something you typically wear. So even if, I just have questions, to even if Shannon's thing is hairbows and she likes to wear them while prosecuting criminal trials, again, you do you, you go, should she be wearing one in this trial? Should she be considering the public backlash, the things that are being said about it and should she maybe opt for another choice? I don't know. I don't have the answer.

I'm throwing out some things that I've been thinking about because clearly the internet is talking about this hairboat. There are some strong opinions out there. I don't have a conclusion. I'm just wondering, right? I'm just wondering sometimes people can be discouraged from wearing certain colors in court, a prosecutor, or a defense attorney, sometimes even, you know, the gallery is taught not to wear things that say things on their shirts. So that's my thought for the day. And clearly, people are talking about it, and I just wonder what has been said behind the scenes or if it's ever been brought to the judge's attention. Anyway, there you go. I don't know though, you know.

So there you go. I don't know what everybody else's opinions are on that. Yeah. So, but anyway, yeah, we don't need to call her names over the dangbo, but it certainly is something people have been talking about. Thank you, Don. All right. Well, I'm going to take off.

although I'll share this. I had an interview just before this with, well, yeah, you'll share, you'll see tomorrow. It was a very, very interesting interview. I'll just share that about a case that many of you will know about. So there is going to be more tomorrow and this weekend while we wait for Monday's cross-exam from defense attorney Reddington. And I have an interview coming, so hit subscribe, hit notifications. And I just want to also just thank you once again for supporting us and our work.

Thank you to our sponsor, Hymns. Thank you to all of you for just simply subscribing. It's free and it helps us so much. Hit notifications. Thank you for your support while we follow this trial. is a heart-breaking trial. So, all right. Okay. And yes, for those that I think you guys can clearly see, I'm back home for a while. So I may or may not be going back out, but I will be here, but I do apologize that I cannot share right now the jurors' reactions. But I will continue

watching the trial with all of you and bring you the very latest. And my thoughts, especially since I did sit in that courtroom for nearly two weeks, I have a lot of thoughts as always. So thanks. We'll see you guys. Bye. Real Canadian Superstore has everything you need this back-to-school season. Save on lunchbox savers like Ziggy's sliced Ellie Me products for always 375.

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