Hidden True Crime - A Missing Grandmother, a Secret Obsession, and a Man Nobody Suspected

Episode Date: June 6, 2026

A year after the disappearance and murder of 82-year-old Marcia Norman shocked Washington State, Hidden True Crime returns with a major update—and troubling new questions about whether justice will truly be served. In this episode, Lauren Matthias examines newly obtained court documents, witness statements, digital evidence, and jail calls that paint an even darker picture of what investigators allege happened to Marcia at the hands of trusted handyman Jeffrey Zizz. From a disturbing written assault plan and evidence of alleged premeditation to the discovery of Marcia’s body buried beneath a newly constructed shed, the details are chilling. Sponsors: IQ Bar: Get 20% off all IQBAR products, including the Ultimate Sampler Pack, plus free shipping—text HIDDEN to 64000. Message and data rates may apply. Article: Get $50 off your first purchase of $100 or more at Article by visiting https://www.article.com/discount/hidden and the discount will be automatically applied at checkout. About Hidden True Crime What started as a simple conversation at their dinner table became a captivating podcast. Join the dynamic duo of Dr. John Matthias, a criminal psychologist, and Lauren Matthias, an investigative journalist, as they delve into the psychological facets of unthinkable crimes every week. Their unique perspectives and in-depth analysis offer a fresh take on true crime storytelling. Thank you for your support through sponsorships, subscribing, listening, and becoming a Patreon member at⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Patreon.com/HiddenTrueCrime⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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And we are back on this case for several reasons, important reasons. First off, justice has not been served. There is yet to be a trial, and I personally worry. since the prosecutor on this case has an interesting track record, including a past history prosecuting this same alleged killer. We're going to get into that. And I think I'm concerned about a possible plea deal in this case because of what investigators say happened to Marcia, exactly what happened to Marcia Norman. because we have court documents so detailed.

You usually don't see this type of evidence until after a trial. But we have it. And we have been pouring over it all. The docs tell us not just who the alleged killer is and what the alleged killer did to Martian Norman, but also what he did before he ever met Marsha Norman and what he was possibly planning after. This has been a long episode in the making. Again, I can't stress this enough.

It's an important one with a lot of digging. And as I always say, stick with me. And I really mean it with this episode. Stick with me. My name is Lauren Matthias, and this is hidden true crime. Marsha Norman was a mother, a doting quilt-making grandmother, a dedicated wife, and a beloved member of her community into Naino, Washington. She lived in such a way that no one would have ever thought her life would end so abruptly and violently.

She was the last person anyone would think this would happen to. And I think that's what makes this case all the more haunting. Marcia spent decades building a life, a family, a beautiful home on the banks of Lake Bacintosh. She had a reputation as someone who deeply cared about other. and who others care deeply for her. But in the final moments of her life, investigators say that she was subjected to unimaginable cruelty

at the hands of a man that she and her family trusted. And that man is named Jeffrey Zizz. And according to investigators, Marcia, again, wasn't targeted by a stranger. She was allegedly targeted by someone that she and her husband had welcomed into their lives, someone who knew her routine, vulnerability, someone who understood exactly how much trust that she had placed in him. And that is what makes this case, again, so terrifying. There's

many things that make this case terrifying. We're going to go over it all. And over the past year, public attention has finally started focusing more on crimes involving elderly victims, especially following the disappearance of Savannah Guthrie's mother Nancy Guthrie. That case, such a heartbreaking case. That has sparked those conversations and has actually forced many of us to ask a question maybe we'd never considered. What if that was my mom? What if that was my grandmother? What if the elderly person I love suddenly vanished or became a target of someone that they relied on? Because for many older adults, trust is an option. We begin life dependent on others. And as life winds down, that dependency returns. The elderly depend on others for children. transportation, home repairs, appointments, self-care, and everyday tasks we take for granted when we're younger. And just like children, aging adults have no choice but to place their safety in the hands of others. And what many people are deserving of that trust is cases like Marsha that remind us what can happen when someone takes advantage of that trust, when someone takes advantage of that

vulnerability, and when that trust is manipulated. Manipulated so much so that trust. That trust falls into the wrong hands. And if you've never heard Marcia's story before, prepare yourself. We're going to go through it all because what investigators uncovered after she seemingly just vanished from her nearly $1 million home tucked away beneath these majestic pine trees in this beautiful serene area, it is disturbing. It's heartbreaking. It's difficult to comprehend. And again, I think it's so important to understand because crime and criminal They are not always lurking in the shadows or the cities or the playground or even on the internet.

They don't just target the predictable victim either. Some criminals are lurking as trusted individuals that we invite into our homes. And sometimes they are targeting a grandmother like Nancy Guthrie or a grandmother like Martian Norman whose future plans included a cross-country road trip with her son, a hip replacement, and more time to stitch another quilt for a grandchild. So while we have covered this case previously, and I recommend our episodes on this case, it's been nearly a year. So I'm going to give a refresher before we get into the new details that we've been covered. If you want every background detail, I do recommend still listening

to our other episodes because this has, again, been one of the the most shocking, unexpected cases we've ever covered. And it only gets more shocking with each document we read or jailhouse call we listen to. We'll get into them. Can't believe them. And then we're diving into the new info, the court documents, the witness statements, the jail calls, evidence that sheds even more light and what investigators say happened to Marsha. And I'm going to be honest right from the beginning. There's also another reason we're revisiting this case because despite the brutality of these allegations, allegations. There are some people becoming increasingly worried that Marcia may never receive the

full measure of justice that many believe she deserves. Questions are being raised about the prosecution and whether it could ultimately end in a plea deal instead of a public trial, if that perhaps buries some mistakes of the past. So today, we're talking not only about what happened to Marsha Norman, but also what happens next. Because after Marsha retired with her husband, Richard, the couple created a life and a home on the banks of Scenic Lake, Lake of McIntosh in Washington, a large enough home to host their four children, their spouses, their numerous grandchildren. It was a home surrounded by nature. It was isolated, just like Nancy Guthrie's home was a bit isolated, but it was also part of a community they embraced into 9-0 Washington.

Even after Richard's sudden declining health required him to move into assisted living, Marcia worked to stay incredibly active, visiting Richard in the assisted living's facility. They chose together. She was his companion until the end and cared for him through her visits while others helped him with his medical needs. Marcia continued to keep up her social calendar. she attended Bridge, spent time with friends and neighbors, and was even, again, planning this road trip for the summer of 2025. And still, like most older adults, Marcia needed help

maintaining her property. Again, this was a large house, and while Richard once handled much of the upkeep, he no longer could. So for roughly two years, they relied on local handyman Jeffrey Zizz, and he soon became someone more than a handyman hired for odd jobs. Jeffrey, soon became a trusted family friend. Marcia and Richard trusted him enough to even allow him to use part of their detached shop, Richard's beloved man cave, to store tools and work on projects. After Richard moved into assisted living, they felt secure, knowing Jeffrey would be around to continue to assist Marcia.

There wasn't any reason to not trust Jeffrey. As far as Marcia and Richard could tell, on paper, Jeffrey appeared to be the kind of person someone would trust. He was a retired army major, a married father of five, educated, had a master's degree. And he was a former church pastor, a Christian man. But behind that carefully crafted image was a deeply disturbing history that Marcia and many others did not fully understand until it was too late. In 2021, Jeffrey confessed to sexually abusing his three daughters over the period of several years. He ultimately pleaded guilty to reduce charges, originally sentenced to just over eight years in prison, and for the crimes he confessed to, eight years seems like

hardly anything. Whoever, through Washington State's special sex offender sentencing, alternative program, he spent less than a year behind bars before being released under strict supervision and condition. But yeah, less than a year behind bars. Remember that. We're going to get into that. Remember that. And under these conditions, that is how he was able to maintain employment as a handyman. Like he wasn't being hired as a pastor anymore, clearly. But he was able to be a handyman and just be welcomed into people's homes without them fully knowing everything about his past charges. And so that's what he did, handyman work. And he kept a relatively low profile doing just that or so people thought until the first week of April in 2025.

and that is when everything changed. When Marsha failed to show up for plans with friends and stopped answering calls, her loved ones quickly became concerned, of course. And on April 4, 2025, her son, retired police chief John Norman, went to check on her at home. And when he entered, he soon realized it was like his mom had just suddenly vanished. Inside, there were troubling signs. He quickly noticed her medications had not been taken for a few days, and pills were sort of scattered.

So his first thought was to call local hospitals, like maybe there was a medical emergency. Her wallet was still inside the house, which was confusing. But again, if there had been an emergency, maybe she accidentally left her wallet. But her phone, on the other hand, was gone. And household chores like dishes had been left unfinished. which was completely unlike Marcia. But most importantly, no one had heard from her since April 1st. It had been nearly three days.

And while her phone was missing, John was able to figure out how to access Marcia's iCloud account, just thinking that could help the family locate Marcia if they were able to find out where her phone was. So they logged into her iCloud. So despite her phone still missing, ICloud account, they got into that. And family members discovered text messages showing that Marcia had planned to have dinner with Jeffrey Zizz in her home on April 1st. The last day anyone heard from her. So now look, cooking and serving dinner, this was something Marcia did for others.

This was a love language of Marcia. And as a lieutenant for the Thurston County Sheriff's Office explained, quote, he's not an average handyman to this family. He's a good family friend. So it doesn't necessarily seem like having dinner together would be uncommon, end quote. But it was concerning, since it seemed Jeffrey Ziz was the last person investigators believed, was with Marcia. And it quickly escalated to even more concerning when investigators learned about an incident with Jeffrey months earlier, something that rang major, major alarm bells. Just a few months earlier, Marcia had confided in family that she had woke up in the middle of the night to find Jeffrey standing at the foot of her bed. Yeah, can you imagine? I mean, he has access to the property, but this was the middle of the night

and just standing and watching. So she confronted him and ordered him to leave. And at the time, the incident was not reported to law enforcement because Marcia allegedly made her boundaries very clear and known to Jeffrey. And people that know Marcia say that when she did have something to say, she said it. And she made her boundaries known and explained to Jeffrey to never, enter her bedroom or even her home that late at night and without her knowing. And Marcia must have felt that Jeffrey understood not to cross those boundaries again. But still, investigators quickly zeroed in on Jeffrey Zizz. And as detectives investigated Marcia's disappearance, Jeffrey initially told them that he had

dinner with Marcia and went straight home afterward. This episode is brought to you by IQ Bar, our exclusive snack, hydration, and coffee sponsor IQ bar protein bars IQ mix hydration mixes and IQ Joe mushroom coffees are the delicious low sugar brain and body fuel you need to win your day IQ bars are quick they're easy to throw in a bag for busy days and soccer weekends they have plant protein and fiber and are made with clean ingredients like magnesium and lions main quick and healthy and if you're not sure where to start they have this ultimate sampler pack. It lets you try the bars. It lets you try the hydration mixes and the mushroom coffee is all in one box. And right now, IQ Bar is offering our special hidden gems, our podcast listeners,

20% off all IQ products, including that ultimate sampler I mentioned. Plus, free shipping. So to get your 20% off, all you need to do is text hidden to 64,000. So text hidden, H-I-D-D-E-N, and to 64,000. That's hidden to 64,000. Message and data rates may apply. But surveillance technology soon exposed major problems with his story. Automated license plate readers captured his truck traveling through Olympia during the early morning hours of April 2nd. He later changed his story and admitted that he had returned to Marsh's property multiple times overnight. The inconsistencies continued to pile up. Investigators discovered evidence suggesting Jeffrey may have intentionally left his phone behind during that time. His explanations conflicted with surveillance footage and

other evidence. He also admitted to investigators that he had romantic feelings for Marsha and reportedly failed a polygraph exam. A search for Jeffrey's residence revealed something else. A five-page document that appeared to outline a planned burglary and sexual assault of an elderly female customer. Yeah, detectives were seriously concerned by the similarities between the document and Marcia's disappearance. And his pressure mounted. Jeffrey borrowed his roommates' truck and fled Washington State. Days later, authorities located the abandoned vehicle in a remote area between Idaho and Montana after his struck an elk. Jeffrey was eventually found in Montana and arrested. Meanwhile, investigators continued

searching for Marcia. She still was not found despite the arrest. Cadabra dogs had alerted to Jeffrey's truck and cadaver dogs had alerted to Marcia's property, but then the trail went cold until the dogs hit on a separate shed construction site for another customer where Jeffrey had been working just after Marsha disappeared. Yeah. But there was a problem. There was a giant shed in place, so they couldn't just dig and start digging. So first, they started with ground penetrating radar. And that's when they identified an anomaly under the newly constructed shed. On April 9th, five days after Marsha was reported missing, seven days after her dinner with Jeffrey, investigators tore down the shed, excavated the area, and made the horrific discovery.

Marsha Norman's body was found buried under the shed and covered in concrete. According to the medical examiner, Marcia had been bound with straps around her wrist and ankles. She had suffered extensive, extensive blunt force injuries. and penetrating injuries to her head inflicted with a pneumatic nail gun. Authorities said the injuries occurred over a period of hours and described the evidence as consistent with torture before her death. Jeffrey Zizz was, of course, quickly charged with first-degree kidnapping, multiple counts of first degree premeditated murder and unlawful disposal of human remains.

He has pleaded not guilty. And with that background in mind, let's get into the newest information that's come out since those initial charges were filed. Now, I am going to walk you through all the new documents we've obtained, the evidence, and the information we've uncovered since our last coverage of the case. It is actually quite a lot. But before I lay it all out, I want to be completely transparent about why this episode right now and why so many who have been closely following this case feel a growing sense of urgency and why some are worried that if enough attention isn't kept on this case, Marsha may never receive the justice her family is asking for. Well, this episode is a major update. It's also a plea, a plea for this case to be taken all the way. A plea. A plea for this case to be taken all the way.

plea for accountability, a plea to make sure that what happened to Marsha Norman is never minimized, it's never forgotten, that it's never quietly resolved behind closed doors, because not that many people know about this case, and to make sure that Jeffrey Zizz will never be able to manipulate and harm another unsuspecting person. To understand why people are concerned about justice or fear Jeffrey might once again find freedom outside of prison walls, which ultimately means he can continue victimizing, we need to talk about who's prosecuting this case and understand Jeffries Ziz's prior criminal history, the case where he admitted to sexually abusing his own daughters. As we mentioned earlier in 2019,

Jeffrey admitted to police through his attorney that he had been sexually assaulting his three daughters, all three of them, and wanted to confess. And then when investigators spoke to his daughters. The oldest who was 16 at the time said that there were occasions when Jeffrey tried to film her in the shower when she was just 14 years old, which eventually developed into Jeffrey coming into her room at night and touching her. Around two weeks before the interview, she said that Jeffrey came into her room drunk and told her that he was going to take her by will or by force, by force. A little girl. He got on top of her. And when she tried to scum, he put duct tape that he had already prepared duct tape over her mouth. He instructed her to touch him,

but eventually lost his balance, fell off the bed, and she was able to run out of the room to her mother. She and Jeffrey told her mother. Jeffrey's wife, Christy, what happened? Yet police were not called right away. Interesting, right? In fact, it was Jeffrey that ended up calling, remember, and saying he wanted to confess and went in for this interview. Police weren't called that moment. But during this interview, when Jeffrey is allegedly confessing and Christy's second daughter, then described multiple occasions of molestation, which occurred every week over the course of two years.

So Jeffrey is originally charged with incest in the first degree, rape of a child in the first degree, two counts of child molestation in the second degree, rape of a child in the second degree, rape of a child in the third degree, two counts of child molestation in the third degree, and attempted rape in the second degree. However, the state agreed to amend the charges to two counts of child molestation and one count of communication with a minor for immoral purposes in exchange for Jeffrey pleading guilty. He also had to undergo a psychosexual evaluation and sexual history polygraph test, which unveiled even more disturbing information about sexual crimes. Jeffrey started committing as young as a child. And somehow, after all of that, Jeffrey was deemed

to be a low-risk offender. This is a topic I discussed a lot with my co-host, Dr. John Matthias. Take a listen. He goes into his daughter's room. He's drunk. This is the other daughter, by the way, not the one I just talked about. He goes into her room with duct tape. He says to her, quote, "' Tonight is the night, I take you by will or by force,' unquote. That's what he tells her. So he's not even pretending to hide his motive.

He's basically saying to you, I don't care what you think or do, I am going to assault you tonight. That's what he tells her. and she resists. So he gets in bed with her, lays on top of her. She resists.

She starts screaming. He takes the duct tape. He has a piece of duct tape in his hand. He puts it over her mouth. He fails. He's unsuccessful at doing that. He tries to do it, but he's unsuccessful.

She pushes him away. She's eventually able to push him off of her. She runs down the hall screen. screaming into her mother's room and that stops the abuse that evening. However, there's no interpretation of that event that doesn't involve violence. Exactly. Now, again, like from an evaluation standpoint, that's a tricky situation because technically the DA should have charged him with some type of violence during the sex

defense that could have been considered a crime or a separate crime and the DA did not do that. The evaluator actually says in the in the evaluation quote he engaged in aggressive actions with duct tape. This is known at the time of this evaluation this is known. So we have an abuse of a one year old. We have him essentially abusing a woman who was a stranger who's passed out from alcohol consumption at a bar. He acknowledges that he's aroused by others who are being physically abused and ameliated. And now, right, you have two instances of his history that seem to indicate

this arousal and desire around harming victims who are basically helpless. So, and by the way, I'm not even, I'm not even done yet with his sex. I was going to say, what else is, right? I know, what else is in his evaluation? Because there was a lot that shocked me. Yeah, so he also had sex with two animals. He had, he had sex with the dog and with a horse. And because of these lessened charges and the low risk offender.

And when I say low risk, it means low risk to reoffend. Never mind he's been offending for years on multiple victims, but low risk. and violent, never mind that too. But because of the lessen charges, Jeffrey was only sentenced to eight years, but even worse than that is he only actually served that one year. So one year before being released

to the unknowing and vulnerable public, where he'd ultimately find a new victim. Now, the reason I wanted to go over all of that information again is to show why some people are afraid that Martian Norman's case may not actually go to trial, because shockingly,

the same prosecutor who worked out that deal with Jeffrey, the sex offender, is presiding over the case of Jeffrey, the alleged murderer, the alleged torturer. And I'm not sure why that's even a thing. Like, wouldn't that be a conflict of interest? Why is the same prosecutor on this case again? I don't know, but I did some more research on this prosecutor to find out about more cases that she's been part of to see if being soft on disturbing crimes is a pattern for her. And really, what I found was it was a bit of a mixed bag. We'll get there. So stay with me.

Hold tight. But for now, let's dig into the documents and updated info on the murder investigation and what law enforcement believe happened to Marcia and why. These court documents that we acquired have added even more to our existing timeline. It bolsters the opinion that this case. needs to go as far as it can, with Jeffrey receiving as much time as possible. We have several reports from various investigators who worked on different aspects of this case who gave their perspective on how the investigation unfolded. And from our previous episode, we know that after Marsha was reported missing, and investigators learned that she had dinner with Jeffrey, an officer drove to his house

and conducted research into a truck registered to Jeffrey that was parked outside. The officer learned that a flock camera had captured that truck on two recent occasions. The first was April 2nd, 2025 at 304 a.m. The truck was captured going southbound in the intersection of Lilly Road and Martin Way east in Olympia. And then again at 7.03 a.m. at the same location. In the image captured at 703 a.m. there was a large, round garbage can with a black garbage bag liner. The image captured at 304 a.m. was less clear, but it appeared that the trash can was still in the truck. Later that day, more investigators arrived at Jeffrey's home and told him they had questions regarding Marsha Norman's disappearance.

Well, Jeffrey invited them right inside and told them that he had heard about her going missing when one of her family. members called him earlier that day. He explained that he was Marsha's handyman. They had become friends, even letting him use a portion of her detached shop to work on projects and store equipment. Jeffrey said that on Tuesday, April 1st, he had made plans to have dinner with Marcia. And when he got to her house, he went to the shop to work on some things first. And then around 5.30 p.m., he said that Marcia texted him to come down to the house for dinner. They had street tacos. And he said that Marcia drink some wine. He told the investigators that he left her house around 8.30 p.m.

And got home around 9 p.m. And from there, Jeffrey said he went to bed and didn't leave again until the next morning for work. All right. We have been doing a big refresh behind the scenes lately. I know we've talked about it. And one of the projects has been completely redoing Dr. John's office. Honestly, it has turned out so good, better than I even dreamed. And while you guys haven't seen him on camera in there yet, we are so excited to show you a sneak peek.

Because we used article for some of the key pieces, including Dr. John's desk and Dr. John's chair, the side table. The quality, I have to say, was immediately noticeable. Actually, it exceeded my expectations when they arrived the quality. Everything feels substantial, well made, and thoughtfully designed without feeling overtly trendy, either. And what I love about article is that they make it really easy to create a space that feels polished and cohesive. The pieces work beautifully together, timeless, but also functional, and the whole process from ordering to delivery, it was incredibly smooth.

Article is offering our listeners $50 off your first purchase of $100 or more. So to claim, visit article.com slash hidden, and the discount will be. be automatically applied at checkout. That's article.com slash hidden for $50 off your first purchase of $100 or more. Article.com slash hidden. After the first interview, investigators compare Jeffrey's statements to flock camera data and realized he had absolutely lied about his timeline. There was no denying it. So they confronted him. And when confronted, Jeffrey admitted, okay yeah he had returned to marcia's property twice after dinner he claimed he went back around midnight to collect tools for a job the next day and then returned again around 3 a m to retrieve a trailer

parked in marsh's shop he said that on the morning of april second he took the trailer to a storage unit before visiting the home improvement store and equipment rental store jeffrey was also questioned about the incident where marcia woke up to find him standing over her bed admitted to entering her room while she was sleeping and said he rubbed her shoulders because he wanted to talk to her. And according to Jeffrey, Marcia told him to leave. Yeah. And he also acknowledged having romantic feelings for her. Jeffrey allowed detectives to review his phone and Google location history. The data showed him traveling to Marcia's home on April 1st and returning home that evening, but then leaving his home the next morning to visit his storage unit, the home improvement

store, and the equipment rental store. However, there was no location data showing either of the late night trips he claimed to have made to Marsh's property or placing him near the intersection where the flock camera had actually captured his truck at 3 a.m. in the morning. Explain that one. Well, Jeffrey did explain that he must have left his phone at home. during those trips. Hmm, convenient. Detectives also found a text message from his storage facility sent to Jeffrey at 9.16 a.m. on April 2nd, just a friendly reminder, don't enter storage outside of this time.

So Jeffrey said that this storage unit text message to him was likely triggered because he had left the facility a few days earlier just after that 9 p.m. closing time. Okay. Jeffrey's roommate, James or Jim Carter. Jim is the homeowner, and Jeffrey was renting a room at the house. Jim had ring cameras at the front door and in the driveway of the house. The cameras showed Jeffrey arriving home around 908 p.m. on April 1st and did not show any activity again until 5.46 a.m. on Wednesday, April 2nd,

when Jeffrey's has appeared to be leaving in the morning. So that's confusing, even though his car is seen on camera. whereas it doesn't look like he's leaving again. So detectives asked Jeffrey about this, and he said he came and went from the front door each time he left. Well, then when they asked why this wouldn't have been captured by the ring camera, if he indeed did go back to Marshes, he said he didn't know. And he guessed maybe the Wi-Fi went down.

However, officers looked at the exterior of Jeffrey's bedroom window and noticed that the window screen frame was bent, as if it had been damaged while being removed. moved. And at this point, Jeffrey continued to deny any involvement in Marsha's disappearance. So now let's get into the first report which comes from Officer Wyatt Blankenship. It's one of the most detailed reports. It's a very important report. And on April 5th, 2025, Blakenship received a call from a detective Kimber Hunt requesting that he insist with an investigation on military road southeast, and upon Blakenship's arrival, he was briefed by detectives Hunt and Jordan Goss. They told him the homeowner, Marsha Norman, had been reported missing.

Hunt and Goss had been investigating Marsh's disappearance since the day before and determined absolutely was suspicious. Something was up. Blankenship was asked to interview Marsh's neighbors and assist with search. the residence of permission was granted by Marsh's husband, Richard Norman, who was in hospice care at a facility at the time. So before speaking with Marsh's neighbors, a vehicle pulled onto the property. Investigator Blankenship made contact with the driver, a man named Alex Stone. Alex was clearly upset. He explained that he was a friend of Marsh's and had been unable to reach her for several

days, so he came by her home to check on her. He did not know that law enforcement was already involved in her disappearance, and he became even more distressed when he learned she had not yet been located. He agreed to provide a recorded statement. Alex explained that he had known Marsha for years and that they were part of the same bridge group that had met weekly. He said, we play at our clubhouse every Thursday, and she was due and she was expected. week. So I phoned her and texted her on Thursday and there was no response, which is very unusual. We text and phone quite a bit, you know. I talked to her at least maybe once or twice a week minimum in addition to our Thursdays and we go out to dinner once a month. So anyway, I would say I am a good

friend, end quote. Alex said that when Marsha didn't show up for their scheduled bridge game, he immediately started trying to reach her, but she did not answer. that evening, he tried again. He said, quote, and then that evening after I got home after Bridge, I phoned her and texted her again, and then I phoned and texted her on Friday. We also spoke with another person who played's Bridge, and she phoned, texted, went on Facebook, and left an instant message. She tried at least three ways of getting through to Marcia, and there has been no response, end quote. Alex identified that other friend as Tony Murray and later provided investigators with her phone number.

And when asked if Marcia would typically notify them if she could not make it to bridge, he said absolutely. Blankenship asked if it was unusual for Marcia not to respond to messages. And Alex said it was. He said, if I text her, it's unusual for her to not text back within four hours, say. When asked about Marcia's mental health, Alex said he was not aware of any. issues or signs of dementia. Physically, he described her as generally capable, dealing with some mobility problems. He said she did have some hip problems and mobility issues, but not enough to prevent her from doing anything. She just sometimes walks a little stiffly and shows a little bit

of pain. But as far as I know, that's the only health issue that she has, end quote. when asked whether that would make it difficult for her to walk long distances, he said it likely would. Alex also told investigators he knew Marcia had a handyman helping around the property. He said, yeah, she has a handyman since Richard is no longer here. She's had to have house upkeep and things like that, and she lets him use her garage, end quote. He pointed up the driveway towards a shop building, explaining that that's what he meant. why the garage. And then he added something more concerning. He said, quote, but I think he might

also have access. She told me a weird story about somebody that worked for her coming in and knocking on her bedroom door. So somebody must have a key. But she freaked out about that. And I think she addressed it, end quote. And when asked what else Marcia had said about that incident, Alex explained, quote, just that she was surprised that they would do it and that somebody would come into her house like that, unasked, and that even though he had a key, it was not meant to be used in that way. I didn't follow up so I don't know exactly how she resolved it, except she expressed her displeasure. Marcia, I don't know if you've ever met her, but she has a very strong personality. And if she's not happy with something, you will know, end quote. He believed that conversation had happened roughly two to three months earlier. And after speaking with Alex, investigator Blakenship then followed up with Marcia's other neighbors and friends Pamela and Ronald. Pamela Culpepper told investigators she had known Marcia for about 15 years and they spoke regularly, usually a couple of times a week. The last contact was on

Tuesday, April 1st when they made plans to get pedicures. Marcia can confirm the appointment scheduled for 10.30 a.m. and said she would pick Pamela up at 10. Well, Pamela later checked in around 5 p.m. to confirm the details. And when Marcia failed to show up the next day or even respond to any calls and texts, Pamela became increasingly concerned and said that this behavior was completely out of character. She explained that Marcia only used a cell phone and after there was still no response, Pamela's husband went to check on her. Pamela also mentioned other people on Marsha's property, including a gardener and a man named Jeff, who was renting and outbuilding and doing various repair and maintenance jobs for Marsha over

the past six to eight months. Pamela's husband, Ronald, added that he had known the family for about 20 years and had actually sold the Normans their home. He had lasting Marsha in her yard less than a week before she disappeared and said she had been trying to stay socially active after her husband entered a care facility. She was really working to stay social and active. Ronald also discussed Jeffrey, the handyman in more detail, saying that he had been working on multiple long-term repair projects around the home, including extensive water damage in the solarium. He estimated that Jeff had been coming and going for nearly a year, sometimes working intermittently between other jobs.

Ronald also said that Marsha not responding to calls or messages was highly unusual and out of character for her. And after speaking with Pamela and Ronald, Investigator Blankenship learned that Detective Goss had obtained consent from Marcia's husband Richard to search the home and collect any items that could be relevant to the investigation. Richard also had an iPad with him. him and investigators believed it was linked to Marsha's Apple ID.

Another detective was sent to the hospice facility to get permission to access the device. Blankenship then joined Detective Ryan Hoover and Sergeant Alan Clark in searching the home. Hoover documented everything with photographs while Blankenship did a walkthrough of the residence. And overall, the house stood out as very clean and orderly. There were no signs of forced entry, no indication of a break-in, and nothing. suggesting the home had been ransacked. In the southeast bedroom, Blankenship noticed a few articles of clothing on the floor near the bed, including a bra, socks, and pants.

The bed itself was mostly made, except for one corner where the blanket had been pulled back as if someone had been getting in and out. The pillows on that side were also indented, suggesting that was likely the side that Marcia usually slept on. And inside the closet, investigators found a large amount of jewelry. still in place, untouched, nothing appeared disturbed or searched through. The closet was full and neatly organized with no signs that she had packed for travel or planned to leave. In the living room, one couch had a blanket laid out as if someone had recently been sitting there under it.

Otherwise, the room was clean. It was unremarkable, the document states. The kitchen, however, looked a little different. There were dirty dishes in the sink along with two used wine glasses and a half empty cup of coffee on the counter. The dishes had clearly been sitting in soapy water for some time with residue still along the sink. A wedding ring was also found near the sink, suggesting that someone may have been washing dishes when it was set down. The dinner table looked recently used. Butterknives were placed at opposite ends. One chair was pulled slightly sideways as if someone had gotten up quickly or was adjusting their position and a handwritten list of projects where Jeff sat nearby with several items crossed off. After the walk

through, Detective Hoover used a chemical region to test for blood while Blankenship scanned the entire home with a black light, including closets and the garage. No signs of blood or other apparent evidence were found. After assisting at Marsh's property, investigator Blankenship headed terrain near storage to help search Jeffreys' trailer and storage unit. Detective Goss had already obtained search warrants for both. Blankenship, along with Sergeant Clark and evidence detective Andrew Wilkie, began with the trailer. It was filled with tools and construction equipment

consistent with Jeff's work as a handyman. At that stage, nothing inside the trailer appeared to have any evidentiary value based on what investigators knew at the time. Next, they moved on to the storage unit. And inside, Blakenship noticed a gray trash can with a black trash bag inside. Detective Kimber Hunt had previously told investigators that a trash can matching that description had been seen in camera footage in Jeff's truck. When they opened it, they found several empty open bags of concrete. The trash can itself was dry and nothing immediately stood out as evidence. The contents of the trash bag were dumped into the can for closer inspection, but again, nothing of evidentiary value

was found at that point. The unit itself was packed with tools and job-related equipment. Investigators also noticed a wheelbarrow with what looked like concrete steining on the handles and possibly inside the basin. And inside it were a pair of black waiters also appearing to be stained with concrete. Well, further, inside the unit detective Kevin Burton Crow pointed out a gray and green backpack containing rope and lubricant. Inside, Blankenship found a white rope and an empty cardboard box for astroglyde. Premium silicone lubricant in the main compartment. there was also a hammer. Blakenship immediately notified Detective Hunt of the find,

but it was determined to be outside the scope of the search warrant at that time. So the backpack was only photographed and not seized. Yeah. They also located a large brown tarp, which they unfolded for closer inspection. A reddish brown stain was visible on it, and investigators requested a swab for further testing. That sample was collected on scene. In total, three items were either seized. or swab for evidence during the search. And during the process, Jeffrey himself attempted to access the storage unit. However, an officer posted outside quickly stopped him and told him he was not permitted inside

and that a detective would speak with him shortly. So after searching the storage unit, Blankenship moved on to assist with the search of Jeffrey's residence in Lacey, Washington. And he began by photographing the home for an overall record of the layout and condition. The search focused on common living areas as well as Jeff's bedroom. And in the bedroom, investigators started with a white plastic hamper basket located under the bed. Inside were multiple items of unfolded clothing. And as Blankenship began sorting through the contents,

Deputy Wade Sandoval pointed out that a gray sweatshirt in the hamper appeared to match what Jeff was wearing in ring camera footage captured on April 1st. So using that footage for comparison, investigators ultimately seized a gray sweatshirt along with black pants and dark gray pants from the hamper, all believed to be consistent with the clothing scene in the video. They also located two pairs of Timberland brand boots in the bedroom that matched footwear visible in the same ring footage. One pair was found near the bed. The other was positioned near Jeff's desk. Both pairs were collected as evidence. The focus then shifted to the desk area. And while searching a detective, Burton Crow alerted Blankenship to a packet of documents found inside the bottom left drawer.

What investigators discovered inside was described as a written, disturbing, and highly detailed plan to assault a woman approximately 20 years older. Yeah. Alongside those writings were several maps that appeared to be of Thurston County. Blakenship photographed all of the pages in the packet, as well as the accompanying maps. Investigators then came across a large, larger stack of paperwork related to Jeff's work history and clients. And among those documents was information tied to a current customer, Sue Goldstein, who lived on Eskridge Boulevard. So the paperwork indicated that she was paying Jeff to replace a shed on her property. They also located a receipt from Lou Rent's West dated April 2nd, 2025 at 7.50 a.m. showing that Jeff had rented an excavator

that morning and returned it later that same day at 1236 p.m. Another item of interest was a handwritten note on yellow notebook paper. At the top were three names written out, and beneath that were several troubling phrases, including, quote, no fault by the victim, you did not deter it, end quote, another one, won't hurt anyone else, my commitment to you, end quote. So all of these items were photographed and documented as part of the search. On April 6th, investigators followed another lead and went to the Thurston County Waste and Recovery Center in Lacey. Their employees gave investigator Blakenship access to surveillance footage from April 3rd.

And as he reviewed the footage, he spotted Jeffreys' truck arriving at the facility, towing a dump trailer. The trailer appeared to be loaded with construction debris and building materials. covering much of the load were blue tarps or padded moving blankets. So the footage showed Jeffrey driving to the dumping area and unloading the contents of the trailer. And along with the construction materials, investigators watched as the blue tarps and blankets were dumped into the trash as well. Blankenship noted that as the load came out, it appeared there may have been an additional blue tarp or moving blanket buried. within the center of the debris pile. That same day, investigators began looking into another important piece of evidence, the excavator that Jeff had rented on April 2nd.

Sergeant Clark contacted Lou Rents East to find out whether their equipment was GPS tracked. He learned that it was, including the excavator that Jeff had rented. A company representative agreed to meet with investigators and provide the tracking data. So when the GPS records were reviewed, They showed that Jeff had possession of the excavator for only a few hours. And according to the data, he drove it to Eskridge Boulevard, the property where he was replacing a shed for Sue Goldstein, and then returned it directly back to L.E.W. rents around 1236 that afternoon. So the GPS history showed no other stops. The representative also provided surveillance footage from the rental business capturing the period

from when Jeff arrived to rent the equipment until he returned it later that day. When Sergeant Clark reviewed the video, he noticed something that immediately caught his attention. Just before 7.50 that morning, Jeff's Red Ford F-350 pulled into the rental yard and parked directly beneath one of the surveillance cameras, giving investigators a clear view into much of the truck bed. Well, Clark watched as Jeff got out of the driver's seat, walked to the back of the truck, appeared to look into the bed of the truck, tossed an item inside, and then headed into the office. There were several, there were several items already in the bed of the truck.

But one object, one object in particular, stood out. On the passenger's side near the tailgate was what appeared to be a large, unidentified object concealed beneath a blue padded moving blanket. Well, based on everything investigators knew at that point in the case, Clark found the shape of this moving blanket, very concerning, concerning enough that he believed it could potentially be Marcia Norman concealed beneath the blanket. He immediately showed the footage to detectives Goss and Hunt for review. Investeeators noted that throughout the surveillance footage, no other person was seen getting into or out of Jeff's truck, and there was no indication

that anyone else was inside the vehicle that morning. A few minutes later, around 7.52 a.m., Jeff walked back out of the rental office and returned to his truck. Before getting in, he once glanced again toward the bed of the truck, specifically toward the area where the suspicious object was located beneath the blue blanket. At 753 a.m., Jeff moved his truck to the rear of the property so he could hook up the trailer and excavator he had rented. As he worked around the trailer hitch, Investigators observed him repeatedly looking toward the truck bed. And then according to the surveillance footage,

Jeff walked to the passenger side of the vehicle and retrieved another blue blanket or tarp from the backseat. He carried it to the rear of the truck and placed it directly over the already covered object near the tailgate. And then after doing that, he returned to the truck, removed several unidentified items from the backseat, and placed them on top of the additional blanket. blanket. Investigators believed he may have been using the items as weights to keep the blanket from

blowing away while driving. But what really stood out to detectives was what happened next. Jeff walked back around to the driver's side and leaned his arms over the bed of the truck staring into the bed of the truck for several seconds. He then climbed onto the rear tire to get a better view and continued looking intently toward the area where the covered object was located. Yeah. And according to investigators, he remained focused on that spot for several more moments before climbing down and continuing with the equipment pickup. Later that day, around 12.33 p.m., Jeffer turned the excavator to L.E.W. Rents on April 6th, investigator Blankenship interviewed Marsh's friend, and bridge partner, Tony Murray, who had known her for about five years and also spent time with

her socially outside of bridge. Tony last spoke with Marcia on the morning of April 1st. She said that Marcia sounded normal and mentioned casual plans, including offering Tony a charcutory board that she had not used and bringing over some chicken. They briefly discussed bridge plans, but the call ended early when Tony had another appointment. Tony believed the call happened around 10.15 a.m. And then after that, Marcia simply failed to show up for her bridge group, which again, Tony said, was absolutely unusual because Marcia was always reliable. I would normally communicate if she could not attend. Tony tried reaching her later that week, but she got no response. Tony also told investigators about the handyman working at Marcia's property. He had been doing various jobs, had set up a workspace in her garage, and had not yet billed her for some recent work. She also mentioned that Marcia had invited him for dinner on at least one occasion, but she was not sure how recent those dinners were. Investigators then went to Eskridge Boulevard Southeast,

where they interviewed Sue Goldstein. And what Sue told them, Sue told them that she had met Jeff through Marsha. Yeah, can you believe that? Sue knew Jeff because of her friend Marcia. The two women played bridge together, and Marcia had actually recommended Jeffrey to her when she needed work done on her property. And according to Sue, Marcia spoke highly of him. She said Marcia had told her she needed to have Jeff over for dinner sometime and that she almost viewed him like a son.

Sue also understood there was an arrangement where Jeff was allowed to use Marcia's shop space. And in return, he helped her with various projects around the property. She described Jeff as a nice and friendly guy. She explained that on Wednesday, April 2nd, Jeff began replacing a shed on her property. As part of that job, he used an excavator to remove the old shed. And according to Sue, he had planned to haul a load of debris to the dump that day, but the dump was closed. So then the following day, April 3rd, Jeff returned with a rented trailer and hauled away a load of materials. And then on Friday, April 4th, he worked on the shed again, this time with another man named Ryan. Sue said Jeff and Ryan also worked on the project throughout the day on Saturday, April 5th,

and she was not sure whether Ryan had been involved before Friday. So then during the interview, investigators asked to see Jeff's contact information. Sue agreed and Blankenship photographed it. However, Detective Hunt later noted that the phone number Jeff had been using to communicate with Sue was from the number of investigators had previously associated with him. after the interviews who gave investigators permission to search the property as they examined the area of Blankenship photograph the cream colored shed in the backyard. He immediately noticed tire tracks leading from the driveway toward the shed. Around the structure were numerous treadmarks that appeared consistent with an excavator moving around the work site.

One set of tracks was especially noticeable because it cut through vegetation near the back corner of the shed. Behind the shed, and Veseders found several buckets sitting near a pile of wood. One orange bucket had collected rainwater and appeared to contain concrete residue along the sides and the bottom. Well, Blankenship began looking around the shed to determine where in the world concrete had been used during construction. The structure itself was sitting on pier blocks, so there didn't appear to be any obvious concrete foundation underneath. He eventually located some concrete beneath one of the southeast

support blocks, but when he used a stick to examine it more closely, the material began chipping apart. According to Blanket ship, it appeared the concrete adamantly cured or set properly. So at this point, investigators decide to take a closer look under the shed. They brought in ground, penetrating radar equipment. They scanned the area underneath the structure. The scan revealed a large anomaly beneath the shed. What exactly that anomaly was? Investigators could not yet determine, but it was significant enough that it immediately drew their attention and raised even more questions. Investigators were eventually able to get a much clear picture of Jeff's movements, thanks to digital location data recovered from both his truck and his cell phone. Detective Goss obtained

search warrant returns for the location data and provided the information to investigator blanket The data was analyzed with a mapping program developed by the FBI's cellular analysis survey team or cast, right? Cast, you know, the software allows investigators to combine sources such as vehicle data, cell phone records, and Google location history, then overlay that information onto a map to create a detailed timeline of someone's movement. is essentially ping data, cell pings, cast data. So when Blankenship mapped Jeffrey's movement, several important details emerged. And the data showed both Jeff's truck and cell phone arriving at Marsh's property at approximately 4 p.m. on April 1st.

Both devices remain there until around 8.32 p.m. when they traveled together towards Jeff's storage unit. And so then these records show that Jeff used his access this code to enter the facility, his storage facility, at 8.59 p.m. and exited just two minutes later at 9.01 p.m. And then from there, the truck and cell phone data traveled together back towards Jeff's house. Ring camera footage showed, confirmed that Jeff arrived home at approximately 9.09 p.m. And for the next several hours, both the truck and the cell phone appeared to remain at his residents, right? But then things start to get interesting. At approximately 10.39 p.m., the truck

data showed Jeff's vehicle leaving his home and traveling south toward Marsh's property. So back to Marcia's property. But unlike earlier in the evening, his cell phone did not travel with him. And said, the phone data remained at Jeffre's residence. So then investigators say that the truck arrived back in the area of Marsh's home at approximately 10.55 p.m., and then it stayed there for more than three hours. The truck data showed the vehicle remaining near Marsh's property from approximately 10.55 p.m. until 2.19 a.m. The truck began traveling back north toward Jeff's residence, arriving in the area around 2.42 a.m. The vehicle remained there for only a short period of time, and then, according to the data, Jeff's truck left again.

At approximately 305 a.m., the truck was captured by a flock camera at the intersection of Martin Way and Lily Road. Once again, investigators noted that the cell phone appeared to remain at Jeff's residence while the truck was moving. The second trip followed a different route than the first, utilizing roads, including Lily Road, Boulevard Road, an old highway 99. So then approximately at 3.42 a.m. the truck, once again, back in the area of Marsh's house. The data showed it remaining there until about 4.39 a.m. And at that point, the truck traveled north again, returning toward Jeff's home and arriving shortly before 5 a.m. A little later that morning, the truck and cell phone data were once again moving together between 5 and 5.50 a.m. Both the truck and the phone traveled from Jeff's residence toward the storage facility.

Ring camera footage showed this as well. So the data showed Jeff arriving at the storage unit at around like 6.18 a.m. Well, I'd say exactly 6.18 a.m. His truck and phone remained there for roughly half an hour. Rector showed his access code was used to exit the facility at 653 a.m. So that's where that text would come from. hey, by the way, don't access the storage unit at this time. But here he is.

He's exiting at 6.53 a.m. And then from there, the truck and cell phone traveled to Home Depot or surveillance footage later confirmed Jeff's presence at 706 a.m. After leaving Home Depot, the data showed him traveling to L.A.W. rents, again, matching surveillance footage. Investigators had already obtained. Then between approximately 747 a.m. and 8.13 a.m., the truck and cell phone,

traveled to sue Goldstein's property, where Jeff was scheduled to begin work replacing her shed. So then when investigators look at this whole timeline, one conclusion simply just stands out. The digital evidence shows Jeff's truck made three separate trips to Marcia's property between April 1st and April 2nd. Most notably, the truck spent nearly three hours at Marcia's house during the overnight hours, long after Jeff had a initially claimed he'd left for the evening. Then investigators also found it significant that during those late night trips, the location data suggested Jeff's cell phone remained at his house, while only the truck traveled to and from Marsh's property, right? Langenhip documented those findings, provided the information to Detective Goss. As investigators, they're digging deeper into

this disturbing assault plan, though, found in Jeff's bedroom. Let's talk about that. So as they're digging into this assault plan, this is what they call it, found in Jeffrey's bedroom, Detective Hunt began trying to identify the location referenced in the writings and maps. And one of the locations mentioned appeared to be somewhere near Old Highway 99. After following several leads, Hunt identified a possible address on Hyatt Road southeast into Nino. Detective's Hunt, Goss, and Blankenship, they go to the property and make contact with a woman named Barbara Roderick. And if you recall, Jeffrey had written the name Barbara on that yellow piece of paper, you know, with the question mark on this yellow piece of paper.

So now we're at Barbara Roderick's residence. Here we go. So Barbara was heavily intoxicated at the time officers arrived, wasn't in a condition to be interviewed. However, she did say that she had hired Jeff to perform renovation work at her home, including remodeling portions of her bathroom. And because of her condition, though, being intoxicated, detectives decided they'd return another day to conduct a more complete thorough interview. Still, several things immediately stood out, right? Blankenship noted that Barbara's property ordered a wooded area, something specifically mentioned in Jeff's written assault.

plan. He also observed that Barbara appeared to live alone and that her home was relatively isolated from neighboring residences. To investigators, those similarities were concerning. Barbara was an older woman living by herself in a secluded location, circumstances that in some ways mirrored Martian Norman's living situation, right? Then on April 7th, the investigation took another turn. At approximately 1127 that morning detectives received an email from Jeff's roommate Jim, saying that Jeffrey had actually borrowed his truck the day before and never returned home. Jim said he had attempted to report the vehicle stolen and was becoming increasingly concerned. So not only about the truck, but he was worried Jeff might harm himself.

Later that same day, detectives received a call from the Idaho State Police. A state trooper reported that the missing truck had been located in a remote stretch of Highway 12, in Idaho between Missoula, near Missoula, Montana, and the vehicle had significant front-end damage and appeared to have struck an elk before becoming disabled. But Jeffrey wasn't there, just the truck. And by the time the trooper arrived, several hours had already passed since the crash with the elk, had been reported, and Jeff apparently left the scene on foot. So at that point, authorities obtained a warrant for Jeff's arrest, for violating the conditions of his community custody, right?

because Jeff was already an active department of correction supervision related to his old case, and he wasn't even able to leave the state. So later that evening, investigators learned that law enforcement in Montana had been canvassing the area, trying to figure out where Jeff might have gone. I mean, he was on foot. Officers went from hotel to hotel in Missoula asking questions and checking records. Eventually, they find him. They find him at a motel eight, and Jeffries is right then.

taken into custody that night without incident. The next day, April 8th, Blankenship interviews Jeffrey's roommate Jim Carter at their home in Lacey. Jim tells investigators. He's known Jeff for about two years, describes him as, are ready for this, an awesome roommate, awesome, is the word he uses. When asked whether they were close friends, Jim replied, I would say we're good friends. We didn't talk a lot with each other because he was usually out doing jobs for his business. He'd often leave early in the morning and then return back late in the evening like around nine, usually. But other than that, we saw each other in group, in our group therapy. So yeah, that's probably about the extent, end quote. Blankenship asked whether Jim had ever had concerns

about Jeff. His answer was immediate. Oh, no, absolutely not. Jim said he hadn't really seen Jeff on April 1st because he had been attending Bible study and then group therapy. So when investigators asked whether Jeff had spoken to him about the investigation, Jim said no. Instead, the only information he received came through a handwritten note that Jeff had left behind. He said, quote, the only thing that he mentioned was in the note that he left on Sunday morning. He mentioned Marcia.

And he just said that all this stuff is stemming around her. He didn't mention a last name. It was just her first name. and then he said that he was going to go purchase some shoes, and then he was going to go to church, and then he was going to spend time in the afternoon with his pastor, and would be back later that evening, and we could sit down and talk to me about what was going on and all that good stuff, end quote. Well, Jim said he never got to have that conversation. Everything he knew had come from the note. investigators and asked whether he had given Jeff or Jeffrey permission to use his truck.

And he said, yes, I knew he had some jobs and projects he wanted to complete this month in order to pay for some of his bills for materials and stuff like that. So I lent him the truck in order to do that because I knew that you guys had taken his truck, end quote. Jim explained that he gave Jeff permission to use a truck immediately after investigators executed the search warrant at their home and seized evidence. He said that he fully expected Jeffrey to bring it back. But he had asked what happened to the note that Jeff had left him and Jim told him he had shredded it. Yeah. Come on, Jim. You shredded this note.

He also said that before leaving, Jeffrey never discussed the case with him directly. Jim said, quote, it's pretty stressed out. And I could see that just in his eyes and his body language, end quote. So according to Jim, Jeffrey's demeanor changed noticeably after detective searched his room. He said, quote, so I just told him, I said, we can talk about it later. You get some rest and we'll talk about it the next day. And obviously the next day, I didn't see him and I haven't seen him. End quote. Jim said he never imagined Jeff would leave Washington, let alone take the truck across state lines. He said, I fully expected him to come home that evening. In fact, I texted my mom's caregiver on

Sunday and told her I may not be able to make it overnight. My roommate Jeff wants to talk to me about a serious situation he's experiencing right now. So as the interview continues, Blinkinship asks Jim whether Jeff had ever said or done anything that raised red flags. Jim said no. In fact, he told investigators that everything that had happened was completely inconsistent with the person he thought he knew. He said, all this is totally out of character for him. He's very family-oriented. He talks to his wife every day, Jim says. I can hear him on the phone in his room with his wife and with his boys. They play games online. All of this is a huge surprise, end quote.

Flingenship also asked whether Jim knew that Jeff had multiple cell phones. Jim said he did. He said, I know that he had two cell phones. One was a new cell phone that I think was primarily for his business. And he changed providers and all that stuff. So the other cell phone I think was offline. He didn't have a service provider for it. That's my understanding based upon what he told me, end quote. So when investigators asked whether he had seen Jeff on Wednesday, April 2nd, Jim said he had not. But according to him that wasn't unusual, their day-to-day interactions were fairly limited. It wasn't uncommon for them to go periods without seeing each other around the house. Plankenship then asked Jim whether he was aware that Jeff had apparently been using

the bedroom window to come and go without being noticed, and Jim said he had no idea. However, he did recall noticing something odd about that window more than a year earlier. He said, you know, I knew over a year ago I saw that the screen was missing, but I never talked to him about it. It was down on the ground, and I saw that the frame was bent, and I just figured he'll fix it or whatever. So I trusted him a lot. And then when asked whether there had ever been any other nights where he suspected Jeff might have left through the window, Jim said, no, he He lived his life and I lived mine. Investigators, then they turned their attention to Marsha.

Blakenship asked whether Jim knew who Jeff had been working for over the previous several months. Jim said he had slowly pieced some of it together, but claimed Jeff never specifically mentioned Marsha by name. He said, I've been able to put pieces together. He never really mentioned Marsha's name. He just said he was working for a lady into Nino. And I know he had a lot of admiration. for her. For several months, he'd been doing odd projects for her. My understanding was that she had recently lost her husband. So she offered Jeff to look at some tools that he owned since she knew

he was in construction. And so I believe that she may have sold some of the tools to him. I also understood because he told me that he was renting a space from her to keep some of his tools there since he was working there quite often. End quote. So then Blankenship asks whether it would be fair to say Jeff and Marcia had become a regular part of each other's lives because of these arrangements. When Jim agreed, that was accurate. But Jim said that Jeff never expressed any romantic interest in Marcia. When asked whether Jeff would have told him if he had feelings for Marcia, Jim responded, no, I mean, that's honestly not Jeff. That's not in his character. He was very customer focused. That's the reason why I think that he was doing so well. He had jobs all over the

place and all of them were word of mouth. In fact, he had a bid on a job for one of my friends. The conversation then changed to events after investigators searched the house. Jim explained that he had recently been contacted by Jeff's wife, Christy, through a mutual acquaintance named Sam, who he believed was a pastor. According to Jim, Sam left a note on his front door on April 6th, asking him to contact Christy. Jim kept that note and had since begun to communicating with her about what was happening. When Blankenship asked to see the note, Jim retrieved it from a Ziploc bag

where he had carefully stored it. Blakenship asked whether he could take possession of it. Jim appeared hesitant and uncomfortable with that, but agreed to let investigators photograph it. The detective then asked about the note that Jeff had left before disappearing, and that's when Jim admitted again. He has shredded it.

I mean, come on, Jim. You shredded this note. According to Blankenship, Jim seems somewhat embarrassed when he explained that he threw the note away because he didn't think he had any use for it. The investigators were allowed to inspect the shredder, but it was packed with shredded papers and documents. The note had been destroyed to such a degree that it would likely be impossible to reconstruct. Yeah, that's what shredding is. I mean, throwing it away is one thing. He shredded it. Jim shredded it. But before ending in the interview, Jim made it clear that despite everything

that was going on, he still considered Jeffrey a friend. He told him. He told him, investigators that he planned to visit Jeff if he was housed in the Thurston County Jail and intended to put money on his books as well. And that left Blanketship with questions. In his report, Jim's description of his relationship with Jeff did not entirely match his actions. On one hand, Jim repeatedly described their interactions as limited. He said they mostly lived separate lives, really spent significant time together, essentially coexisted in the same residence. But on the other hand, Jim trusted Jeff enough to lend him his truck. He seemed reluctant to pursue criminal charges after Jeff took that truck across multiple state lines without telling him. He planned to visit

him in jail and financially support him while he was incarcerated. To blame Jim, these actions suggested a much closer relationship than Jim had described. And then, of course, the destroyed note also stood out. Jim claimed he routinely discarded things he didn't need, but investigators couldn't help noticing that he'd carefully preserve Sam's note in a plastic bag while shredding. He didn't just throw it away. He shredded the note left behind by Jeff, only hours after law enforcement executed a search warrant at the home. That's like burn after reading, right? Burn after reading letter. Let's shred the note. Blankinship stopped short of accusing Jim of anything, but he did document that the contradiction caught his attention. And by the end of the interview, he wrote that he

remained uncertain about the true nature of Jim's relationship with Jeff and whether Jim had been fully forthcoming with investigators. And then as investigators continued retracing Jeff's movements, Blankenship followed up on another piece of surveillance evidence. He went to a bank on Martin Way in Olympia to see if any of its security cameras may have been captured, may have captured Jeff's truck around the same time it was spotted by a flock camera in the early morning hours of April 2nd. Later, the bank's security company sent over footage. One of the cameras had captured a black and white image showing a truck matching Jeff's heading south on Lily Road at approximately 3.4 a.m., almost exactly matching the timeline

investigators had already established through the flock camera data. Blank and ship also returned to Marsh's home to conduct another search. alongside Detective Hunt. And during that search, investigators found a notebook continuing what appeared to be handwritten notes about narcissism.

As he sorted through the documents, several items caught his attention. Among them are medical records relating to hip surgery, advertisements from landscaping companies, utility bills, what appeared to be a rental income ledger for properties that Marcia owned,

and various receipts, including receipts for prescription medication. Investigators photographed the documents they believed could be relevant and added them to the growing body of evidence as they continue trying to piece together what had happened to Marsha. So at this point in the investigation, we're going to switch perspectives and look at the case through the eyes of another investigator, Sergeant Chris Kimball, who joined the investigation on April 8th. When Kimball came onto the case, he was briefed that detectives were actively investigating the suspicious disappearance of Marsha Norman, who was informed that Jeffrey Zizz had already been identified as a person of interest and was asked to assist Detective's Wilkie and Hunt with a secondary search of Marsha's residence. Once they arrived, investigators divided up tasks and began thorough examination of the property. Detective Hunt focused on collecting Marsh's betting and documenting any medication she had been taking. Meanwhile, as Kimball entered the home, he moved a floor mat just inside the front door underneath it. He noticed a brownish-colored stain on the linoleum floor. Well, Detective Wilkie swabbed the stain and collected it as evidence while Kimball assisted

by photographing the scene and other items being collected throughout the house. The investigators then moved into the kitchen where they located Marsh's pill organizers, several prescription bottles stored above the microwave. Kimball arranged the medications on the counter and photograph them for documentation. The search eventually extended into the garage where investigators examined Marsh's vehicles. Detective Wilkie applied Blue Star. That's that chemical regent used to detect traces of blood inside Marsh's Audi sedan. The interior and trunk were tested, but no blood was detected.

The Audi was then moved out of the garage and Marsh's Honda CRV was brought inside and processed in the same matter. Again, there were no positive reactions in the Audi or the Honda. Well, investigators worked inside the resident. Sergeant Clark remained outside with human remains detection dogs. At one point, Clark informed the team that the dogs had alerted to the scent of human decomposition near the garage door. Investigators also brought in King County Search and Rescue drone operators to survey nearby McIntosh Lake.

The drones identified several areas of interest. that were later checked, none produced evidence connected to Marsh's disappearance. After the search concluded, Kimball spoke with Sergeant Clark again, learned something else significant. So according to Clark, the human remains detection dogs had also alerted to the bed of Jeffrey's truck. That truck would later undergo an extensive forensic examination after being brought into the evidence vault. According to the report written by Detective George Oplinger, a team of investigators, carefully processed both the truck bed and the cab of the vehicle. Two members of the team covered the windows and entered the truck

to conduct a detailed evidence search while others cataloged and removed items from inside. Investors discovered receipts scattered throughout the vehicle in eight different locations. Those receipts were collected and logged into evidence. As detectives reviewed the contents of the truck, Detective Hunt identified several items that he believed were important enough to seize. Among them was a gray sweatshirt found on the front passenger side floorboard. Also collected was a pair of black,

full-length, undergarment-style pants found in the same area. And finally, investigators seized a blue blanket that had been located behind the driver's seat. At the same time,

investigators were processing Jeff's truck. Sergeant Kimball and the human remains detection dog team were heading to Sue Goldstein's property on Eskridge Boulevard. The focus was the newly constructed shed that Jeff had built in Sue's backyard. When the dogs were deployed around the area, they once again alerted to the scent of human decomposition near the shed. That's where they went. That's where they alerted. Given the significance of the alert, the amount of excavation that would be required, investigators, they simply decided to secure the scene overnight and then continue the search the following day.

And then on April 9th, investigators returned with a search warrant and heavy equipment. According to Detective Blankenship, Detective Goss had obtained a warrant specifically authorizing a search for human remains on Sue's property. The first step was moving the shed. Using heavy machinery, investigators carefully relocated the newly built structure away from its foundation so they could excavate the ground beneath it. An excavator was then brought in and began digging. It did not take long before investigators found something unusual. Just beneath the surface, they encountered unset concrete near the center of where the shed had been sitting. Of course, that immediately raised questions.

There appeared to be no structural reason for concrete to have been poured in the middle of the shed. The shed itself rested, again, remember, on pier blocks around the perimeter, meaning the concrete served no obvious construction purpose. As excavation continued, focused on the northwest portion of the shed, the same area where the cadaver dogs had repeatedly alerted approximately three feet below the surface. Blankenship spotted a small blue object protruding from the dirt. He used a shovel to carefully clear away the surrounding soil, and as more dirt was removed, it became a little. clear that the blue material appeared to be part of a moving blanket. Yeah, the moving blanket. Investigators continued excavating by hand and with machinery. Soon they uncovered something

even more alarming. A large mass of concrete appeared to be attached to the blanket and was encasing the sizable object buried underneath the shed. The object extended from the back corner of the shed toward the center of the structure where another section of the blue moving blanket could be seen embedded within the concrete. At that point, the excavation slowed dramatically. Detective's Blankenship, Hoover and Jones, along with Chief Carla Carter, and members of the coroner's office carefully worked together to remove dirt around the object without damaging potential evidence. Has Blankenship watched the excavation unfold, another detail stood out to him? The angle of the buried object matched the excavator treadmarks he had previously photographed on April 6th.

Those tracks ran through vegetation behind the shed and appeared to lead directly to the burial site. To him, it looked consistent with an excavator being used to dig the hole before the object was placed inside. Blankenship also couldn't help, but think back to Jeff's storage unit. Investigators had found a trash can filled with empty concrete bags during the search of that unit. In Blankenship's opinion, the quantity of empty bags found there seemed far more consistent with the amount of concrete now being uncovered beneath the shed than with a small amount that would have been needed to stabilize the shed's pier blocks. Sergeant Kimball was also present during the excavation and documented additional details in his report. Deputy coroner Karen Peake responded to the scene and took charge of the recovery effort. Under her direction, investigators continued exposing the buried object, and according to Kimball,

it appeared to be wrapped in a black trash bag and a blue moving blanket, secured with blue cord, rope, and then covered and poured concrete. Eventually, the object was fully uncovered. Investigators carefully removed it from the ground and placed it onto a core. coroner's gurney. And then came the moment that confirmed everyone's fears. Deputy Coroner Peak examined the bundle by touch and felt what appeared to be a human foot inside. After the recovery was complete, investigators refilled the excavation side and moved the shed back into its original position. Also on April 9th, investigators documented the first jail calls Jeffrey made after his arrest. And the first call was with his wife, Christy. Yeah, even after his

charges and the sentencing, they remained married. And the first call was to her, his wife, Christy. And much of the conversation focused on practical matters, including Jeff's truck, the contents of his storage unit, and what they plan to do with his belongings moving forward. At one point, Christy tells him that a detective had informed her there was a possibility the truck could be released soon. Jeff responded, oh, awesome. But then he quickly added, but I can't afford to keep the truck. The two then discussed who should take possession of it if it was released. And Jeff said, quote, if we get the truck back, it would be nice to put the truck in Jim's hands. for a bit."

Christy replied, or Sam also offered to both have offered, end quote. Jeff responded, all I'm saying is Jim might actually need the truck, so I would prioritize Jim, and quote. And that makes sense, considering Jeff stole Jim's truck and crashed it into an elk. The conversation then switched to the storage unit. Christy explained that she was trying to recover whatever property

remained and move it into the trailer. And she said, quote, once we get the keys, I am hoping to get whatever is left out of storage and into the trailer. And Jeffrey replied, oh, good luck. Christy continued. Well, I don't know what they have left. She went on to explain, all I'm trying to say is, I'm trying to get what we can into the trailer. And I'm going to talk to see him and see if he's willing to store the trailer. And then at another point in the call, Christy mentions that she has canceled Jeff's phone service because she felt he would probably want to start over after everything that had happened. The call eventually timed out, but Jeff immediately called her back. And then the discussion turned to the Shed Project at Sue Goldstein's property and whether

anyone would finish the job. Jeff asked, did Jim or anybody talk to? to Ryan about trying to finish working on the shed? And Christy replies, yeah, everyone in the group has been advised to stay away. Jeff seems confused and asks, like, stay away from me? And so she clarified, no, the job, well, both. Like, they can't contact you and Ryan was advised by Renee not to do that for the job, end quote. And then the husband and wife discussed whether any payment would still be coming for the work. Christy told him, I don't think that money will come. And in all honesty, I don't know Sue. I don't know her opinion of you. I don't know if she wants to be contacted by anyone in relation to you. End quote. It's worth noting that this conversation, by the way,

was about payment for the very same shed project where investigators had just uncovered what they believed to be Marsha's remains. Jeff was really hoping it's still. It's still. It's get paid for that impeccable shed that he had built, still wanting to get paid. So then on April 10th, 2025, an autopsy confirmed the remains located under the shed were those of Marcia Norman. And again, according to the medical examiner, Marcia had significant blunt force injuries to her extremities and torso. Yeah, all over. Penetrating injuries to her head were inflicted by a nail gun. And I, you know, there are photos of these nails, big, nails, big nails. Her injuries were compounded and reoccurred over the course of several hours.

In the medical examiner's opinion, the evidence is consistent with Marcia being beaten with an unknown object being tortured and executed with the nail gun. Following the autopsy, Detective Goss identified additional items of interest that required him to get an endendum to search Jeffrey's trailer, storage unit, and truck again. One more time. And later that afternoon, Detective Kimball assisted Goss, Wilkie, and Blankenship at the Rainier View Storage Facility located in the Lacey Washington, and while searching Jeffrey's trailer, which contained construction tools and equipment, Kimball and Blankenship observed two unusual items on a middle shelf near the rear of the trailer. Metal tubes wrapped in black foam pipe insulation secured with hose clamps,

metal rings, and carabiners. One tube appeared to be longer than the other. The items appeared out of place for typical construction use. These items were seized as evidence as well as 13 other items from the trailer. There were also another recorded jail call between Jeff and Christie on April 10th. Like the previous conversations, this one focused mostly on logistics, finances, and managing Jeff's affairs while he was in custody. That day, Jim also sent Jeffrey a jail message that said, quote, I'm angry with you for taking my truck on a journey that we did not agree to.

Jeffrey replied to Jim and said, You're welcome to use my truck, of course, whenever it's released for whatever you need. Won't get repoed for a month at least, Christie's remaining hopeful and not shutting everything down entirely, end quote. Jim replied back and said, Once I get the keys to your truck and trailer,

I'll go over to the storage unit and load everything in the trailer, bring it back to the house, and park it in the driveway. So on April 11th, Blankenship began to review a Cellbright report of the extraction that Detective Kyle Kemp had performed on Jeff's phone. So this is what he finds on Jeffrey's phone. The image, which appeared to be from a pornographic film, and this image depicted a naked woman seated on a chair with her hands and head bound to a metal box.

The woman's legs were bent upwards and also bound next to her hands. Due to the strange metal bars with carabiners discovered in Jeff's trailer, he informed the lead investigators of this strange device, which had clearly been watched on Jeff's phone. There was also a pornographic video which featured an elderly female having intercourse with a younger male. There were numerous photographs taken of Marsh's residence. These photographs included the back door, which it appeared Jeff repaired. Additionally, however, there were a number of photographs from various other rooms of the residents, which did not appear to be under repair or construction.

Blankenship observed a large number of photographs from a Rolodex which had been observed in Marcia's residence. This was strange. is this Rolodex included a significant amount of personal information to include Marsh's passwords to various accounts. There were several pictures taken of a bathroom renovation in which the bathroom had the floor removed. This appeared consistent with the description Jeff had provided in the document discovered in his desk, which he described entering the residence through the renovated floor. Blangisip discovered a picture of Sue's shed. that Jeff had been constructing that was taken on April 3rd at 8.23 a.m.

This photograph showed the base of the shed. This indicated that by approximately 8.20 a.m., the day after Marcia had last been heard from, Jeff had taken a picture of the shed foundation that had been built over her remains. He observed several pictures of job sites that Jeff had worked on, including one of the shed base overlaid on a map of Olympia in the approximate area of Sue's property. The image was created on April 4th at 547pm. There were a large number of satellite images that appeared to be from Google Earth. Blankenship was unable to determine the location of many of these images, but he did point out they were similar to materials found in the assault plan

discovered earlier in Jeff's desk, where that included satellite imagery and references to using maps for planning. There was also a significant amount of customer-related information in the photos. Plague-inship then assisted Goss, Kimball, and Lieutenant Mike Brooks in conducting a second search of Jeff's storage unit. And this unit was locked and they did not have a keys for the facility, drilled the lock and issued a new key, which was later submitted into evidence. They applied Blue Star to areas of interest inside the unit, but no blood was detected. Several items were seized, though, as evidence, including the garbage can with concrete bags, the backpack with rope, and the waiters with concrete stains that had been observed during the

initial search. Additionally, Goss discovered a notebook containing more writings, and these entries, these entries included fantasies involving older women and the use of restraints. Yeah. Blankenship photographed each page containing relevant. Entries. Other items collected from the storage unit included a brute rumber made garbage can containing cement bags, wood and trash liner, and a box of screws, a small spool of white string, a black wirebound notebook, yellow cordage, rain gear, pants in a jacket, Ozark Trail, orange pericord, green cord wrapped around a wooden stick, white cord on a spool, rope with an attached strap, a gray backpack containing rope, a hammer, a metal hook,

a container of lubricant, and a blue shipping blanket. On April 12th, Jeffrey called Jim. Jeffrey talked about crashing Jim's truck, and Jim explained that his truck was being returned to Thurston County. Later in the evening, Jeffrey called Jim back, and Jim discussed someone being interested in taking Jeffrey's bid on another project. They talked again about Jim's truck, the elk accident. And then they went into Jeffrey's truck and Jim having access to Jeffrey's belongings,

including his storage unit and trailer. Jim again mentioned that the new project he put a bid on would help Jeffrey out financially. Jim then said, quote, and you can finish the other project, end quote. Jeffrey said, I don't know. We'll see. Are you talking about the shed project? Jim replied, yeah. Jeffrey said, I don't know. There's a lot of conversation. I'm not privy to, but I don't know. We'll see.

So then on April 12th, Jeffrey called his pastor, referred to as Pastor Dan. And during their conversation, Pastor Dan said, I don't know how much you can talk about it, but I assume they've been questioning you about the whereabouts of that gal, end quote. Pastor Dan did not explain why he assumed Jeffrey would have been questioned. Jeffrey replied, yeah, this is a separate thing. Jeffrey told Pastor Dan that he was in jail for a separate incident. Jeffrey then said, if you talk to Christy, his wife, she knows everything. She's better to talk about details or whatever. Basically, they were asking a lot of questions and had a laser focus and I opted to clear my name and walked into a trap, end quote. Jeffrey told Pastor Dan that he was not allowed to leave the state without approval from DOC and explained what he had done after his truck got impounded.

He said that on Sunday morning, he used Jim's truck to go to the storage unit to see what was left. He then bought a new phone since his was taken by police. Jeffrey said, and then fear crept up. And I was feeling pinched, cornered something. I knew Monday I was going to have a warrant, whether I was in the state or not. not, end quote. So Jeff goes on to explain that was his thought process at the time and he needed some space just to think. He said, I went for a very long Sunday drive. I got freaked out. And then on April 15th, Detective Clark wrote in his report that a Missoula police officer named Lieutenant

Kenneth contacted him regarding items that he took into evidence from Jeffrey Zizz's motel room. He was advised that on April 15th, Lieutenant Smith was contacted by the Motel 8 manager informing him that after clearing the room that Jeffrey was arrested from, the staff found a cell phone and two notes in a garbage can. While Officer Smith advised that the cell phone appeared to have been melted to the trash can, he said that the damaged cell phone and two notes were placed in their evidence facility, Smith attached photographs of the damaged cell phone and the handwritten notes, which are believed to say the following. Ready? Note number one.

Christ Rez at the rest of a email address, a Gmail email address. And then another Gmail address followed by I.O. Renee, $400. Note two. Didn't take my truck phone, no seizure. Polly rigged. They got the seizure warrant for truck phone and seized storage trailer room, took everything, my computer, my work boots, half my clothes,

all my daily, end quote. Detective Clark placed those photographs into the case file and made arrangements to retrieve that evidence from Missoula later on. On April 16th, detectives Kimball and Blankenship assisted with a follow-up search of Jeffrey's truck, which was being held in the evidence vault.

So they were now looking for specific, specific items identified during Marsh's autopsy. The following items were collected, a small bungee cord, a Milwaukee cordless framing nail gun. Three Milwaukee brand batteries. Pro stringlinger pro spool of string. Hope I got that brand right. framing nails, a Milwaukee drill bit set, a ratchet strap, various metal rings and carabiners, a large bungee cord with black plastic hooks, a large white zip tie with a dark stain, and two hammers, two hammers. That same day, as it's a frightening group of things to find, honestly.

In that same day, April 16th, Detective Blankenship went to the North Thurston School District Building to inquire about obtaining camera footage from Horizon Elementary School located in Olympia. He was allowed to review the camera footage, and he discovered a vehicle which appeared to be Jeff's red truck, traveling northbound on Reneer Road and southbound on Reneer Road several times on April 1st and 2nd, which again corroborated with the tracking data he gathered before. The final time the truck was captured. The truck was towing a large white utility trailer that matched the description of Jeff's trailer, which had been searched at Rainier's storage.

This indicated that Jeff's trailer had been possibly moved from Marsh's residence in the early morning hours of April 2nd and towed to the storage facility. and after obtaining the Horizon Elementary footage, Blankenship, learned of an email that had been sent to Lieutenant Brooks from a woman named Brianna Hartsell. And in the email, Brianna wrote the following, quote, I think I may be the second to last person to interact with Marsha Norman the night she went missing. I had been working at the Tenino Post Office.

She came in to mail a packager letter. We exchanged hello's and chat. had it a bit. She shared that she was a bit nervous as she had a dinner to go to. She had invited her handyman over for dinner at her home that evening. She said she was nervous because she was going to fire him after their meal. She told me she had learned about his past, though she did not elaborate. She said, he might be dangerous. After that, I asked if anyone knew about the dinner and she said, she had been telling everyone that she had talked to that day, that if anything should happen to her, it would be him that did it, that her friend would be the first to realize something was wrong

because they were getting their nails done the next day. She had mentioned that he was headed to Montana soon. After one last job in Olympia, I urged her to reschedule when someone else could be there. She said that she couldn't because that's where she was headed. I felt really uneasy about the whole situation. I had set her letter to the side so that I could remember her address. I was going to check on her after I left work. I felt so extremely guilty for not checking on her. What if I could have saved her? Why didn't I call dispatch? I'm not sure if this will be at all helpful, but I needed to say something had I not kept quiet before things may have ended differently. Thank you, Brianna Hartzell, unquote. So in his report, Blankenship wrote that due to the amount of case-specific information Breonna provided in her email, it was decided to follow up with her on her contact with Marsha. He contacted Brianna at the post office and she agreed to provide a recorded statement, which we have here. Take a listen.

I know you mentioned in your email that you had some contact with Marsha Norman. How do you know, Marcia? I don't know her at all. I just had that one interaction with her. Okay. I believe the night that she went missing. Do you remember what day that was? I believe it was the first. The first. Okay. And do you usually work down here in Bucoda or up into Nino? Or both of them? Yeah. Okay. The internet's been out here. So after I end my day, Here at 4.30, I go over there. Yeah. And then finish up my paperwork.

And my coworker must have been, like, getting the flag or doing something. Because I was running the window when she had come in. She came in. She was dropping off a letter. She said she was kind of running late for something, but she was kind of nervous. And I said, what's going on? Just kind of small talk and she mentioned that she was going to have a dinner with her handyman and she's like nervous because she said she was going to, she had intended to fire him because she learned something about him that was not good. She didn't elaborate.

She just said he's a bad husband. man and potentially dangerous. And she, I had asked her if she, like, if anyone knew about what was going on, if she had someone that could be there. So if he was actually dangerous, that someone would be there to protect her. And then she mentioned that she lived alone. Her husband had passed. And that, yeah, she was.

going to that dinner. And she's like, I've been telling everyone. And like, does anyone know where you're going to be, who you're going to be with? Where is it? Is it going to be somewhere out and about? And she said it was at her home. She wouldn't be able to reschedule because, I mean, she was pretty much running a little bit late.

Like, she was going right there, maybe going to stop at the gas station beforehand. but she's like, yeah, if I've been telling everyone that I'm having lunch with him, I mean, not lunch, dinner, dinner with him. So if anything were to happen to me, it would be him. And she's like, and he's on his way to Montana right after. So I think this is a good time to kind of cut ties. And she had said that she was going to tell him after dinner. Kind of like dismiss her or not. excuse herself to do the dishes.

Okay. And, yeah. And she had mentioned that he had one more job in Olympia. And I don't know if this is an actual memory or if I'm just embellishing, but I think she may have said something about a shed. Okay. And, like, I don't know. Just the whole thing, it seemed like she knew something was going to happen. Okay.

I set her letter aside. Tried to remember the address. When I left, I was going to go check on her. And my coworker and I, we had, he always says that I'm too nosy. Yeah. I get in everyone's business. And, like, so I was like, yeah, like, it's going to be fine. You know where she is.

And she mentioned that she had a nail appointment with her friend in the morning. And, like, if anything were to happen, someone would know right away. And... Got it. Did she ever mention who this handyman was his name or anything? She did say his last name was Zizz. Ziz? Yeah.

Okay. She did tell me his name. She was... She did say Jeffries is, and she said that I could do like a Google search or whatever. Look at, look him up to see what he had done because she just didn't want to tell me. And did you, have you ever talked to her previously to this? I don't believe so, no. Okay.

No, not that I can recall. Okay. Yeah. Do you know any of her family or anything like that? I don't think so. Okay. I want to say her friend was last name of Culpecker or something. Okay.

Did she mention that name to you? I think someone, the husband of the woman, who she was going to get the nail appointment with or something. I think. Oh, what was that? So the husband? The husband of the person that she was going to get the nails. done with I think came in at some point and then I remember reading that name okay just all of it seemed so close to home yeah and it just sparked in my mind and it was like oh crap like she came

in she was wearing kind of a a purple jacket um she had her glasses on I believe the envelope that she had was yellow and I had like um probably an Easter thing that she wanted a mail-lough before she went to the dinner. Do you remember where that package was going to? I don't. I normally take pictures of everything. I went through my deleted stuff, and I don't have it. Okay. I don't know. Is there any way to look that up or anything? I don't know. Okay. I can ask my postmaster to see if there's any way to look that up.

Okay. How long did you, would you say your conversation was with? her it was like a lot of information like in a short amount of time like got like really it wasn't more than 15 minutes it was like very brief but i'm um have you ever met jeffreases or okay no okay and she mentioned he was going to montana yeah she said that he was gonna go to montana and he would be like gone hopefully like out of her hair but also if something were to happen that's where he was going gotcha um and you mentioned something about she had mentioned doing the dishes or something like that yeah she said she was um i had asked when she planned on doing it um like she said that she was gonna you know at the end of dinner like you know have a nice dinner whatever and then just

kind of ended on a sour note a little bit. So, like, he could leave. Okay. And she, I don't know, because I remember thinking, like, a, maybe not the best, but also, like, I mean, the whole thing, if he's, like, not a good person, that's just in her being in that situation,

in her age, and just, just. Okay. Did she mention what he did in his past or anything like that? No, she, no, she just said that it was bad, and then I could do a Google search and look, look him up. And she's like, yeah, it's an unusual name. And she, like, just recently learned about what he had done and that she wasn't comfortable. Like, she said that he always kind of gave her, like, a weird feeling.

But, like, he had never been aggressive or anything like that. But she's, like, I don't know, like, with this information and, like, firing him. I don't know how he'll react. Okay. That's what she told you. She didn't know how he would react. Yeah, she didn't know. She's like, well, maybe you like met with that then.

Who knows? Gotcha. Blanky jip wrote that Brianna became upset several times during the statement and had teared up. He said that he didn't know of any reason why Brianna may be being deceptive. However, he was unsure about what information had already been released to the public at that point, right? which would either help validate or cast doubt on Brianna's statement. He reviewed the press releases, and it did appear that some of the facts that Brianna had said had not been released at that point,

but he said he was uncertain about several details she provided, such as Jeff's supposed plan to move to Montana. He notified the lead investigators of the details Brianna provided in her statement to help figure out if it was legitimate. And he later learned from Detective Goss, that information had been circulating about the dishes in Marcia's house being left in the sink. This information was available to the public prior to obtaining Brianna's statement. Additionally, Detective Hunt informed him that Jeff's DOC officer Cole Madison stated there had not been any mention of Jeff moving to Montana prior to him fleeing there. Jeff's flee to Montana and extraditioned back had been public knowledge at the time he interviewed Brianna. So fast forward a little bit. Languagicap goes back to the post office to review camera footage of the time

Brianna believed Marcia had been there on April 1st. He discovered that at 4.53 p.m., an elderly female arrived at the post office with a letter. The female proceeded to the front desk where there were no cameras able to capture her interactions. The same female left at 455 p.m. So we're talking two minutes. The elderly female were a black jacket, dark pants, and had white hair. Plankenship was unable to determine that the elderly female was Marsha Norman

and noted she was only at the front desk again for approximately a minute before exiting. Very short amount of time for Marcia to provide Brianna the amount of details she described in her interview. He attempted to locate footage of the vehicle. that this elderly female arrived in. However, he was not able to definitively determine the vehicle from the footage. The cameras at the post office were motion censored and only began recording when movement was detected. There was no camera which covered the entirety of the parking lot at the time. And the footage that was captured in the motion sensor did not reveal which vehicle this elderly woman used.

So I'd like to know what you make of this whole post-tose. office, Breonna situation. Because as detective Blankage, it pointed out, he realized after the fact that most of the information Breanna shared that Marcia supposedly said was already public information. Also, the woman in the footage wasn't wearing purple like Brianna originally described and also she only stayed like a minute or two, right? Versus 15 minutes like Brianna said or remembered. So how Marcia was able to provide all of this detailed information to Rihanna in one minute. I also found it strange that Brianna said Marcia told her she was alone because her husband had passed when we know that Richard was actually in an assisted living home or allegedly in hospice at the time. He's not dad. And I'm sure Marsha wouldn't have actually said that he had passed. You know, and if Brianna did meet Marcia and Marcia said these things, this becomes some of the biggest evidence, you know, in the case, not the biggest, it's circumstantial, but. It would add, certainly to all of the evidence they already have,

but it's also worth noting that in the report, detectives admit that it's not consistent, that the details are not consistent with what Marsha would necessarily say. So then the question becomes, why would someone insert themselves into an investigation like this and fabricate an entire interaction? Was it attention-seeking behavior? or or does Brianna really believe that she met and spoke to Marsha Norman?

What do you think? It was an interesting piece of evidence. Moving on to more of the jail phone calls. On April 14th, Jeffrey called his wife, Christy again. Incredible, right? There are a lot of jail calls between these two. It's very interesting understanding Jeffrey. Jeffrey's previous, yeah, charges and sentencing. But nonetheless, Jeffrey calls his wife,

Christy again. And in the conversation, Jeffrey told Christy that he saw a judge and met with a public defender. When the public defender told Jeffrey that he was being held there because of other stuff, Christy replied, which we figured. Jeffrey said the public defender, told him that he was most likely going to be held. He started to explain what happened next. but fumbled over his words and said, I don't want to talk too much detail on stuff because of the nature. And then Christy said, sure, before he kind of finished a sentence. Later that same day, Jeffrey called Christy back. Christy talked about bills.

And during that conversation, Jeffrey said, I don't want to catastrophize and sit here and feel defeated like I'm going to jail for the rest of my life. Let's plan for worst case and to be grateful if things go much better. It's kind of like planning a will or something. You don't want to think about dying, but it's nice to have already thought about it and think some things through, end quote. I mean, wow. Even later, Jeffrey again called his wife, Christy, and Christy was talking about how she hoped to not have to tell their sons about the situation.

She then said, I'm only telling them what I know to be true, and that's just that you violated your parole. So that day, Jim sent Jeffrey a message containing a passage from Psalm 7. And in simple terms, the message is about someone calling out to God for protection and justice. Describes a person asking to be saved from those pursuing them, asking God to judge fairly, essentially saying that if they have done wrong, they should face consequences, but if they are innocent, they are asking to be vindicated. Later, Jim sent Jeffrey a message of a Corinthians reading, and Jim said, 1 Corinthians 14, 20 through 25, and in this, Paul tells the Corinthians to stop thinking like children when it comes to understanding spiritual things. He says,

it's okay to be childlike in innocence, but not in thinking. April 17th, Now, Jeffrey calls his wife Christy and said, quote, I just got a message from Jim. Christy says, okay. Jeffrey then said, about to crawl into a hole or something, I had just found purpose in my few weeks here. I just want to call and tell you that I'm probably just going to call you as you want. Jim or John can probably let you know what's up if you don't understand why the wind may have been let out of any hope sales, end quote. And then he said something along the lines of, I didn't know if you wanted me to call.

And Christy replied, no, I want you to call. Jeffrey later says, I'm grateful that you want me to continue to call. And further in the conversation, Jeffrey said, I can't talk about stuff obviously. Christy said right. Jeff then says, I'll communicate what I can. And then that day, Jim sends Jeffrey a message about Marsha's body being found. Jim said, Jeff, they found Marsh's body buried beneath the concrete slab of the shed you built in Olympia.

Right now, I'm trying to wrap my head around all the circumstantial evidence they have against you. I want to believe you had nothing to do with her death, but logically I can't. Right now I will remain in contact and support your family in any way I can. The situation has left everyone in disbelief and has totally upended their lives. You have put all of us in a very difficult position. The disappearance of Marcia has gained national attention. If you had anything to do with Marcia's disappearance, it's time to fess up and suffer the consequences,

man's law and God's law. In God's law, I must forgive you. All of this is very sad if you didn't have anything to do with her disappearance. But know anything you haven't shared with police, I encourage you to cooperate to bring all of this to an end and give the Norman family some peace. And, wow, well, Jim, okay, here we go. Goes from shredding a letter to why don't you give Marsh's families some peace. Later, Jim sent Jeffrey another message saying Proverbs 10, 9 in the NIV.

Whoever walks in integrity walk securely, but whoever takes crooked paths will be found out. Jeff replies, I can appreciate the difficulty. I just can't talk about anything related to what's going on. And then on April 18, Jeffrey speaks with Christy about handling his storage unit and trailer as well as sorting out financial and legal concerns. She mentioned speaking with a friend who consulted an attorney who warned her that unpaid debts could affect her credit because she and Jeffrey were married. Yeah.

She also said her remaining debt was around $10,000. And during this call, Jeffrey also says, unfortunately, I got some stuff down at marshes. Later, Jeffrey calls Christy back. Christy was talking about Jeffrey's truck and trying to sell it. She tells Jeffrey, she hoped that it won't come back and disrepair. Jeffrey says, yeah, I would hope they're not like having to rip stuff apart in order to do the forensic stuff they want to do.

Jeffrey also mentioned talking to Jim about how he couldn't talk about things. And then he said, the stuff that is in the news is fine. The case seems right until it's cross-examined. There's just one narrative getting portrayed right now, and quote. Yeah, wow. On April 19th, Christy tells him that she has not talked to her brothers about the situation, and they've not reached out to her. Christy later says, quote, having Jim reach out to Ryan to see if he wanted any of your stuff

as payment for the work he did on the. the shed, end quote. Jeffrey responded, oh yeah. And then Christy says, I didn't know how you felt about that. Jeffrey says, no, that's totally fine. I don't see any other way I would be able to compensate him. Jeffrey stated that he owed Ryan about $700 worth of labor. Jeffrey later said, quote, I'm kind of at a loss for reasonable expectations for myself or my circumstances or whatever, not having talked to anyone since my initial thing and being in the information vacuum, I don't think the jail ever comes in to update you if other charges are filed. So I'm not sure where anything is at.

I don't know what that stuff looks like, which would make a difference for the fifth and following. And quote, well, Jeffrey was talking about his court appearance on May 5th. Christy responded, quote, well, the way the sheriff's office has been distributing information, I would imagine they will make a statement if they file charges. Jeff then says, oh, all their moves are kind of publicized. Christy then said, they only really released two things on Tuesday. And well, I was kind of surprised by both of them, end quote. Yeah.

Christy later talked about killing two young roosters using the broomstick method because she couldn't keep them. According to her, it wasn't quick. Jeffrey asked if they were going to be the only ones that she killed. killed and Christy laughed and said, no, they are getting bigger and they're eating so much. I'm like, I don't want to keep feeding you and I know there is a lot of squabbling happening. Nope, you guys are done. End quote. The officer transcribing these calls wrote in his report that he looked up this broomstick method that Christy talked about killing roosters with and he learned that the rooster is placed

on the ground and then a broomstick is placed over the rooster's neck. You stand on both sides of the broom sticks, so your feet are on both sides of the rooster's neck, and then you grab their legs and pull up until you feel their next break. And a call leader that day, Jeffrey said, quote, I'm hoping to talk to somebody from assigned counsel at some point, just for my own expectation management, because I would like to be able to help out, but I recognize that chance is probably minuscule, if not, I just don't know if it is minuscule or non-existent until I talk to somebody about what's going on, end quote.

Christy said, yep, well, and I was thinking until charges are brought, if charges are, you know, you probably only have someone on your parole case, end quote. Well, Christy was talking about a public defender. Jeffrey talked about the first public defender he saw and explained how she was reviewing stuff and looked at social media. So according to Jeffrey, she knew there was stuff going on and said that's really why he was being held. Jeffrey said that she advised counsel for both things. And then Christy said, I know that you worked really hard to build this up. Miracle is miracle, you know. And say you were to get out on May 5th or whatever.

You can't go back to that work with the publicity that's out. And then on April 20th, Jeffrey called his mother. Joy Ziz. Joy asked if he was in solitary confinement. Jeffrey said he was, but it was not for suicide watch because he was not suicidal. Jeffrey told his mother, Joy Zizz, that everything that was taken, such as his phone, computer, and truck, and then Joy says to him, So what happened to that lady anyway? Did she choke to death during dinner or something, or what? and quote. Jeffrey replies to his mom, I can tell you how I'm doing,

but until everything plays out, I can't really talk about any details of stuff. Joy replies, oh, I wasn't sure. And Jeffrey said, it may be quite a while before everything settles and then we can have all the conversation you want, end quote. Jeffrey talked about his court dates coming up. He explained how one is on May 5th for leave.

the state and the other is an arraignment for charges related to what was in the news. And Jeffrey said he didn't know what was in the news because he doesn't get that stuff in jail. And Joy said, quote, I'm not supposed to say anything. And she was talking about what was in the news. And Jeffrey said, well, I have some sense of what's being said. All I know is it's certainly not good. when you have a suspect they painted in the villain's light. Anyway, everything will resolve.

It will just be some time. And I just kind of have to go through the process and she'd be talking to an attorney tomorrow. I tried to clear my name from the get-go and I feel like I walked into a trap. When they say anything can and will be used against you, I think that is pretty accurate, end quote. well on April 21st, Jeffrey called Christy, his wife, calling not his ex-wife, his wife. And Christy asked him if he talked to an attorney, Jeffrey said, quote, the charges were filed yesterday. I'm going to be in the judge's thing for probable cause. Like the court is going to see if based on the reports with the sheriff's office and stuff, if there is probable cause. And then based on

that, there's also a bail set. And I'm like, that doesn't even matter because they are holding me on this other thing. But it'll be like a million dollars or something crazy, I'm sure, end quote. Yeah, crazy. And Jeffrey said that being in solitary was like, quote, like sticking me in a hole in the ground, end quote. Yeah, sounds like what he did in Marsha, allegedly. He talked about the book, little women. And in the book, it talked about smuggling slaves. He said, quote, it's no worse than that. And quote. Jeffrey also said he doesn't want to be at Thurston County jail for two years like other people with similar charges. He wanted to start doing time somewhere else like Stafford Creek. Christy said, quote, are you hopeful about the other thing not going anywhere?

Jeffrey said, what other thing? Christy then replied, the current thing with Marsha. Jeffrey said, hopefully it's not going anywhere. And Christy replied, yeah. Jeffrey said, I got to talk to an attorney. I got to see and I got to look at the case.

And in my head, the only thing I have to go off of is that their report, is that their reports and how credible I am, but I'm also trying to figure out who else would benefit. Like, I don't know what anyone's motivation would be for it. I don't know how a defense attorney looks at defending a case like this.

It's like my word versus the sheriff, end quote. The conversation was abruptly stopped because he had court. On April 22nd, Jeffrey called Christy. Jeffrey talked about, quote, hopefully not being in a concrete box for eternity. Yeah, again, really ironic and honestly startling, considering he allegedly buried Marsha in concrete. Christy talked about having a terrible day. She lost the support of their church, Calvary Chapel. They don't want to associate with her anymore. Christy said, it was bad yesterday, honey.

It was bad. The news, everything. Sorry, I can't keep that from you anymore. It was bad. There was a press conference last night where they kind of laid out everything that they had. end quote. She later told Jeffrey how hard it was for all of them on her side of it. Jeffrey said, quote, nobody wants to hear bad news. There's a ton that I don't know, Christy said. They have a lot of evidence, a lot, end quote. Jeffrey replied, they have what now?

And Christy said, they have a lot. Jeffrey asked, like what? And Christy said, I don't want to say on the phone. Jeffrey said, okay. And Christy said, I'm just letting you know, they have a lot and they made it public. And maybe at some point, I'll be able to type it out or something since it's public. I mean, like, there is no reason why you shouldn't have access to that information. Or maybe Jim will be able to list it all out for you too. I can ask Jim to do that if that would be helpful to you, and quote. Jeffrey said, um, yeah, sure. I mean, I can't believe. I'm reading this. Like, what is this relationship?

How is she even continuing to call this man after what he confessed to doing to their daughters that he served time for? And now this. And she's like, just letting you know, there's a lot. Anyway, later that same day, Jeffrey called Christy back. Christy said, quote, I hope you get put in a safe, positive situation. And Jeffrey said, yeah, thank you.

The media stuff isn't helping anything. Christy said, no, it's not. Jeffrey talked about not being a fan of the news. He said, it's just profiting on tragedy. I mean, guys, profiting on tragedy. This is a tragedy. What happened to Marcia? Is that what this is, just a tragedy?

Or did someone plot to sadistically murder and torture her? Anyway, April 23rd, like the more I go through this, just the angrier I get. April 23rd, Jeffrey calls Christy. Jeffrey said he had met with his attorney, and they don't know anything yet. He stated he was going to have two co-counseles. The advised Jeffrey to be very careful about what was said in the communication. Christy said that she talked to a financial advisor, who suggested they might have to pursue a legal separation. She said, quote, even if that happens, I'm still here. I'm not gone. End quote. And let's just stop for a moment there. I have to process that because I've been following this case for a year.

I had learned that after the charges against their daughter, like their daughters are victims here. For years, their daughters are victims. That there wasn't a divorce, but, you know, maybe it was because of financial situations. that maybe, you know, that happens, right? Maybe there's reasons that there was the separation. I mean, there had to be a separation because the victims are with the mother, with Christy. But, you know, maybe it was financially she needed to stay with him. So now we're talking about him being behind bars for a horrific, horrific murder. and she's talking to a financial advisor, and the financial advisor is saying, hey, for financial reasons,

you might want to now pursue separation. So financially, this would actually help you to get a divorce. And now she is saying, even if that happens, I'm still not here. Oh, I'm still here. Excuse me. I'm still here. Quote, even if that happens, I'm still here. I'm not gone. I quote. wild to hear that. So in April 24th, Jeffrey calls Christy and Jeffrey talks about how he got a note from Jim and he could hardly respond. Jeffrey said he doesn't get it on the communication thing. Like he's trying to share what's going on and that he's empathic for the kids. But then there's another statement. I'm like, dude, it's just kind of accusatory. I got enough people writing this news thing and I have no idea what's going on like I'm still waiting for a time for

the truth to come out consider the ramification if everything is wrong end quote I mean this is so manipulative and just lacking any self-awareness is just kind of mind-blowing so he's accusing his friend of being accusatory you know because heaven forbid he's turned charges. So later that day, Jeffrey calls Christy back. Jeffrey was about, he was still talking about Jim. He was trying to tell him not to ride anymore. And he said he's having a hard time being able to assert what to say and whatnot. Everybody's having a hard time. Christy agreed that everyone is having a hard time. And on April 24th, Jim sent Jeffrey a message. Jim told Jeff what he was being accused of and how it will affect his family. He wrote,

quote, since you're hearing on Monday, I've been trying to process all of what you're being accused of. I'm sure you don't realize what's going on in the news. You are no nationally in the media. I even saw an article from the UK. It's been said that a nail gun was used to torture Marsha and that she was beaten, that her hands and feet were tied together with black Velcro straps. It has been reported that the torture went on for hours before she died. Your older daughters know what's going on and what you've been accused of. The boys only know you're in jail for breaking many laws. Did you ever consider what this all would do to your family and friends? Your oldest son is having a rough time processing that you're in jail. Eventually, he's going to find out

what for. Did you think about what this is going to do to them? The teasing and harassment they're going to get from other kids? All of this doesn't just affect you, Jeff. There are consequences that go far beyond you. I'm still here to support you in any way I can, but I'm extremely pissed off. end quote well it's good you're pissed i mean that's a step on april 24th geoffrey sent jim a message geoffrey said quote let the media determine the truth based on their competition for viewership and clickbait the media attention will fade away and the truth will be revealed in time i appreciate your support but please say nothing else about the case here end quote well by the way we've just come full circle if you want to know why we're talking about this case right now

is because according to jeffreys is the media is going to fade and it has faded quite a bit and marcia's family hasn't received justice yet even though the media is starting to fade we're not going to stop talking about marcia norman and her case until justice is served This is just wild. I mean, Jeffrey Zizz is literally talking about hopefully not having to spend the rest of his life behind bars. And, you know, he served less than a year for violently abusing three young girls for years. And let me remind you, by the way, Washington State doesn't have the death penalty. So any plea deal, if there's ever a plea deal in this case, like,

If they want to just bury the fact that Jeffrey could have been behind bars, you know, if that's a case, Marcia could still be alive, give him a plea deal. Well, there's no death penalty, respectfully, in Washington State. Thus, we're talking really not that much time for torturing. It would be decades, you know, but he'd be up for parole. Anyway, let's keep going. This was actually just quite the tangent. go back to these jailhouse phone calls.

And the tangent is because I just, I can't get over this. So, so anyway, we have the fact that he's saying that the media is going to fade. Please say nothing else about the case here.

And Jim replies and says, thank you for replying. Quote, thank you for replying. I know this all is being recorded and viewed. But everything I mentioned has been published to the public. The specific information I mentioned came directly from the sheriff's department, Detective Brooks interview. It isn't clickbait or published for competition

between the networks. Everything Detective Brooks said in his interview points directly to you. He reported that they found a five-page document where you planned out the crime against an older lady who is a customer. I've been interviewed twice. I hope you are correct that the truth will be told, but right now it's not looking good. Again, nothing I'm saying here is new. It's all been reported directly by the sheriff's department, you know, you should know what's being said about you and the effect it's having on everyone out here. End quote. So then on April 25th, Jeffrey replied to Jim and sent some verses from Proverbs and Psalms. He wrote that in Proverbs 1817 said, in a lawsuit, the first to speak seems right until cross-examination. Psalms 54 talked about praying for deliverance

and vindication. On April 26th, Jeffrey called Christy. Christy was talking about getting an attorney where she lived. She explained that everyone she talked to mentioned her getting a legal separation since she was married to Jeffrey. She was responsible for the debt. That's her issue, the debt. You know. And by the way, Psalms 54 that he's sending to his wife, same thing that Joseph Dugger's sending his wife. I don't know what it is with criminals sending their wife's Psalms 54. vindication, I guess. I don't know. I don't know. So then, you know, and clearly we know Christie's concern is her debt. It's not Marcia Norman's family and whether or not she should be divorcing her husband because of what he did to their children or what he did to Marcia.

Her focus is the debt. And she said, quote, since Washington and Arizona are common property states, I'm attached to everything whether I sign for it or not. Oh, heaven forbid, end quote. So then on April 28th, Jeffrey called his mother Joy. Joy's is. He talked about how things could always be worse. He said, quote, I can't see my family, but they are still alive. There are things to be grateful for, end quote. Yeah, because Marsh's family can't see her. I mean, okay, we'll keep going. On April 29th, Jeffrey called Joy again, his mother Joy. said, quote, everything that is known to the public is very one-sided. We have a narcissistic sheriff who likes to get in front of the press and the press likes to sensationalize things. There's definitely a narrative being told and it's all one side, end quote. And his mom, Joy, said, quote, I've been having an open mind, but I just believe almost everything I've seen so

far. So I'm like, okay, come on, when am I going to hear what the whole truth is? I want to know what really, really happened, end quote. Jeffrey responded, and it may be a while. It's not the court that's holding a press conference. It's a sheriff who's not really making friends with anybody, I imagine. Nobody within the core system is going to do a press conference, and it's all going to die down. It takes a long time for anything to move in the courts. I'm expecting to be here for a while, end quote. Not expecting to be here for a while, like for life, expecting to be here for a while while the courts sort this out. And the truth comes out to his, his mama joy. Jeffrey later said, quote, the older I get, the more I understand why people get tired and they look more and more

forward to eternity. And then later that day, Jeffrey called Mama Joy back. And Jeffrey said, even if somebody else came forward and admitted everything and I was completely clear and it was like nobody had any questions anymore. There's so much that's been lost. My reputation in the community because it's so media driven, I guess. Just a few weeks without work is traumatic. Everything's gone. Everything I worked for in court. This is insane to read this with his charges. I mean, talk. about self-centered out of touch. We want to talk about narcissism. His poor reputation. On April 30th, Jeffrey called his wife, Christy. Jeffrey talked about meeting with his attorneys and how he has an arraignment on May 6th, and he said, quote, so they don't have what they call,

so they don't have what they call discovery and the reports and things that have been submitted, I don't want to talk about the case too much or get in the habit of it. But one thing that was nice, one of the guys was like, yep, I haven't even looked at the news yet, which I appreciated just to keep biased down before he looks at whatever's been reported. End quote. On May 1st, Christy sent Jeffrey a message. She had met with an attorney and was going to start the separation process. Oh, wow, years later, you know, after...

I just, okay, let's just keep going. Let's just keep reading. On May 3rd, Jeffrey called Joy. Jeffrey was talking to his mom, Joy, about his first court appearance and who he could see on Zoom and in the courtroom. He then said, quote, they seemed to be a little bit relentless, the news folks. Joy responded, quote, well, yeah, they got it portrayed as a pretty horrific thing and it's everywhere. I was pretty blown away by how much was all over Washington, and Joe said it's actually national, end quote.

Jeffrey later said, quote, everything is really coming out of the press conference that the sheriff's office did, which nobody ever does. Well, I shouldn't say no one ever does, but our sheriff is known to be narcissistic, end quote. Talk about projection. Jeffrey said he brought this up because the news was on and said, quote, it was three minutes of laying everything out. And there were things where I was like,

okay, I know where those facts got distorted. But other things I'm like, I don't even know what to say about that. End quote. On May 4th, Jeffrey called Christy again, his wife, Christy, he told, Christy told Jeffrey his storage, you know, was clear and the items were taken out. Jeffrey told Christy, there's belongings that are really important not to lose track of, like his medical records, an army records. He said, some may come to bear on arguments for what's going on and could be important. Jeffrey told Christy about things he had in his bedroom. And on his computer, he said, quote, I have a folder of some of Marsh's work. There's nothing tied to whatever. Jeffrey was telling Christy how the news came in, came on in jail, and he heard his name. He said,

quote, some things just caught me a bit off guard a little bit. What we talked about when I was just, when I just got to Montana, the truth is still the truth. Regardless of how people are trying to connect the dots right now, I have never been unfaithful. Wait, what? End quote. Okay. I mean, if we're talking projection, okay. Later, Jeffrey called Christy back. Jeffrey was still talking about things Christy might have heard. And Jeffrey said, quote, the thing that I am most grieved over, I guess, is I feel like it's going to be a year before trial. Lies are damaging or just the misrepresentation of how things connect, and quote. The thing he's most grieved over is that he's going to have to wait a year before trial.

Jeffrey then asks his wife, Christy, how her week has been. And Christy said, well, it was nice that I wasn't given any new information this week, I guess. With the arraignment, I'm bracing for more, another new cycle. It was like rapid fire for the first couple of weeks of new information. Whenever you're able to send me a letter via your lawyer or something, explaining the truth in your words to me, that would be helpful, end quote. And on May 5th, Jeffrey called Pastor Dan. Jeffrey was talking about things on the news, seeing what was said. and being familiar with the things that were said. And Pastor Dan said, quote, yeah, it doesn't look good at the church. And the church is pretty shaken up. And quote, I can only imagine Pastor Dan. Jeffrey started to talk about a bias. He said, quote, we all have some inherent bias. And if you don't, the consequence of that is you start looking for things that support the position you already have in your mind as the truth. There are things that exist that are a fact of something, but the way that they take it is not what they call the thing to be, end quote.

I think he's explaining confirmation bias, but he's also completely, you know, ignoring the fact that there's a thing called evidence, which are facts, and you can't really distort that. Anyway, Jeffrey later said, quote, I'm a little taken aback by how much I don't have any or much bitterness about the context that I'm in. Pastor Dan again said, things don't look good. Things are shaken up pretty good. Men's group is pretty shocked. Church is pretty shocked. I had to have a special meeting with the leadership team, and they were very shocked. And then I had to have a meeting with the church on a Sunday after service to help them process it all. So yeah, it's been quite a challenge on this end with what's been put out and all.

And quote. So later that day, Jeffrey calls Christy, wife Christy. Jeffrey told Christy how he's not bitter. He said, quote, if we get to a year from now and they're like, okay, and we go to trial, or if things get cleared up and then if some judge was understanding and said, okay, I understand in hindsight, they aren't going to do anything like having spent a year or two in jail for nothing. Like, what are they going to do then? Say sorry? Like, that's not going to. to fix the financial destruction and everything else for the last two years, end quote. I mean, this is such manipulation. And here we are, by the way, Jeffreys is a year later. We're not forgetting. Here we are digging deeper into all the evidence. On May 10th, Jeffrey called Christy. Jeffrey was telling Christy how his counsel still doesn't have discovery. His trial team told him they don't have much. Jeffrey thought to himself, quote, you may not have received much because they don't have much, end quote.

Christie said, not according to the news. Jeffrey responded, trust me. I know what's according to the news, and I know how things got from original stuff to the news. It's easily explainable in about 30 seconds. It just needs a little bit of context. And then it's like, oh, okay. Oh, man, this is the exact reason I was so fearful when they first showed up because I know how things are going to look. but when you actually have a chance to say, look, this is actually this,

but that's part of the reason why I want to be able to talk about what the discovery is, because that will help me understand what I can clear up ahead of trial, end quote. In other words, he really wants to know the evidence they have, because then he can try to process how to handle the evidence. And another document from Detective Goss, he wrote that on July 16th, he spoke with John Zizz. That's Jeff's brother on the phone. So John Zizz, and we've got Joy and Jeff and John, John Ziz informed him that he is actually a detective sergeant in Colorado.

And John told Goss that when he was about eight years old, Jeff had moved out of the house and had gone to live with his uncle Jim and aunt Joan. And because of this, John didn't have much information regarding his brother Jeff's upbringing. John recommended that he call their mother Joy's is for better information, and John said that when Jeffrey went on the run, he heard from Christy, Jeff's wife, that she couldn't get a hold of him and that she was worried. John said he encouraged Christy to file a missing person's report due to how uncommon it was for Jeffrey to not be in communication with her. John said he didn't know that Jeff had gone on the run and that he didn't know where Jeff was going at the time. John stated at the end of the interview that the allegations are shocking to the family and that they never thought that Jeffrey could have been capable of such a crime. After speaking with John, Detective Goss called Joy Zez and left her a message requesting a callback. He attempted to arrange an interview with Christie's is on multiple occasions without success.

Detective Hunt ultimately sent Christy a text asking if she wanted to provide a statement. Christy indicated she did not wish to provide law enforcement with a statement. On July 31st, Detective's Hunt and Goss met with Barbara Roderick at her home. They met with Barbara Roderick. They showed Barbara Roderick a text message with a photo from inside her home. Remember, they went to Barbara Roderick's home. She wasn't in a way to talk at that time. They believe she was intoxicated.

They're back now. They're showing Barbara this text message with a photo from inside her home that was on Jeffries' phone. Okay? The photo was sent from Barbara's phone to Jeffrey, and they asked if she remembered sending it or the circumstances around it. Barbara says that she did not remember sending the message, but didn't think much of it at the time explaining she didn't believe anything suspicious was going on. But she did recall one incident. One incident during her

bathroom renovation. When she heard noises coming from the exposed floor in the middle of the night. And at first, Barbara thought it might be an animal, right? Possibly a raccoon. She said she got up. She grabbed her firearm. She went to the bathroom and told whatever was there to get out of there. She said that she never saw anyone and still believed it was likely just an animal. Makes you wonder. On July 31st, Goss attempted to call Jeffrey's Mother Joy again. He left her another message asking for a callback since he had not heard back from her. On August 1st, Goss received a text message from Joy that read, hello, this is Joy Zizz,

Jeffrey Zizz's mother. I'm not interested in speaking with you, thank you, and do not wish to make any comments, end quote. I mean, I'm sorry, but like, I keep thinking of this Dugger thing that we've been talking about.

Right, Joseph Dugger, now behind bars, allegations of abusing a minor. All J names, too. What's up with that? Using the same script you know, in psalms, you know, getting, getting their wives and mothers to cooperate with them and not law enforcement. Strange.

Strange. Anyway, I guess that's a family systems episode. Maybe we can get to with Dr. John. When Goss contacted a person whose name is redacted from the document. Okay. This person had previously sent an email to the Thurston County Sheriff's Office regarding Jeffrey. and this person, his name is redacted, did meet with Jeffrey in the jail after he was arrested on his original sexual assault charges. He told Goss that Jeffrey obviously had some demons, and he believed it was from his prior military service.

He said that Jeffrey would often say that he couldn't talk about his service due to national security. He mainly wanted to inform TCSO that due to Jeffrey's prior training in service, he is built, to keep secrets. He said he was shocked, but not surprised at the allegations against Jeffrey. Goss asked if he would give a recorded statement about Jeffrey, and he requested time to think about it. So then on August 12th, Goss received an email that read, quote, after some careful consideration and conversation, I would respectfully like to stay where I am at with everything. I don't feel obligated to speak on record, and I'm not sure what I'd have to offer, even if I did, I do appreciate you acknowledging my initial insight,

but I do not believe I have anything else to offer in this case. I hope the case comes to a successful close, however, in quote. A successful clothes? Like, what do they? There is a woman that has been tortured and murdered, an 82-year-old grandmother. And people are talking about just moving on and closing this case and not being too surprised and having compassion

and, you know, not talking to police. So, you know, so that, but, you know, so there you go. That's the information we've gathered from the investigator's perspective, how this case unfolded, the witness statements, the evidence, all of which has led to the charges Jeffrey Zizz is currently facing, including these really bizarre jailhouse calls that are printed out in quotes that, I just wanted to go through all of them because it's wild. It is important because if this case goes to trial, this evidence, but who knows what else will be presented to the jury, this will be

the evidence of this crime. And so I wanted to share this with all of you are gems to show just how strong this case is. This is such a strong case. The evidence is so strong. How much evidence they actually have. Because in my opinion, just from this alone, it is more than enough to land a conviction, which is why this case, in my opinion, needs to go to trial. This isn't something to just dust off the shelves or clothes like Jeffrey Zizz's friend or redacted name suggests. Jeffrey Zizz should not be given another chance to plead down, to keep his case out of the public eye and serve any sentence lighter than what a judge and jury deems appropriate. And let's hope he's not concluded to be low risk again. Like I mentioned earlier, though, mentioned earlier, I dug into the

prosecutor's background on cases a bit and found a mixed back, which honestly, it makes me nervous. Here's what I discovered about the prosecutor on Jeffrey Zizz's case, Marcia Norman. This prosecutor, you know, holds justice from Marsha Norman in her hands. So prosecutor Olivia Zau's online profile states, quote, Olivia Zau is a veteran, a veteran, a veteran deputy prosecuting attorney with the Thurston County Prosecutor's Office in Olympia, Washington, specializing in criminal law, appeals, and government law since 2011. She is a recognized prosecutor who received the 2019 Local Hero Award from the Washington State Bar Association for her work in community safety and drug court.

Her legal work consistently reflects a commitment to fairness, due process, and public accountability. Olivia earned her law degree prior to being admitted to the Washington State Bar in 2009. Her academic background laid the foundation for her successful legal career in public service through her education and training. She developed the analytical and litigation skills essential for navigating complex legal proceedings. Since joining the Thurston County Prosecutor's Office, Olivia has prosecuted a broad range of criminal cases and handled complex criminal appeals. She represents the state of Washington in both trial and appellate courts pursuing justice with integrity, diligence, and a strong commitment to public safety. Through her appellate advocacy, she has helped shape criminal case law and legal precedent across Washington state. She is recognized for her clear legal reasoning, persuasive writing, and thoughtful courtroom presence.

Through her public service, Olivia Zau has made meaningful contributions to the safety and well-being of the Olympia community. she brings a principled approach to every case and remains committed to upholding the rule of law. Her professional reputation reflects not only her legal skill, but also her dedication to justice and ethical practice. Olivia continues to serve as a trusted legal advocate for the people of Thurston County. Okay. End quote there. So pursuing justice with integrity, diligence, strong commitment to public safety. let's see if that's true,

but talking about some of the higher-profile cases that Olivia Zao has prosecuted in the past. Because if we only judge are based on the outcome of Jeffrey Ziz and his effect on public safety, it would not really seem like she pursues justice with diligence, right? But again, that's just one case. That happens. So the first case, I mean, it doesn't just happen.

I'm not excusing it because, Jeffreys' is really light sentencing really angers me. What I mean is it can happen. One case possibly slipped through the cracks of a good prosecutor, maybe. So we need to look at this bigger picture. So the first case that I found was in February 2020. A 59-year-old man named Curtis Pouncey was arrested after he arranged to meet an undercover detective who he thought was a 13-year-old girl using social media. So leading up to their meeting in Olympia, Washington, he discussed sexual acts. He would perform on the girl via messages and phone conversations. Upon arriving at the agreed upon location, Pouncey immediately attempted to kiss the undercover detective.

On February 3rd, 2020, a jury convicted Pouncey of attempted rape of a child in the second degree and communication with a minor for immoral purposes. The prosecuting attorney, Olivia Zau, asked for life in prison without the possibility of parole based on his criminal history. Prior to this case, Pouncey registered as a level three sex offender with a high risk to re-offend in 2018. He was also convicted of first-degree rape and rape in the second degree in 1983 and unlawful imprisonment in King County in 1998. So about this case, Livia Zau said, quote, I am satisfied that justice prevailed in this case and grateful for the heart of of the Washington State Patrol's missing and exploited children's task force without their

extraordinary efforts, this individual would still be on the streets, praying on the children of our community." So in that case, even though no actual child was harmed, thank God no actual child was harmed. Olivia Zau specifically asked for the maximum sentence which Pouncy received. And then we come to another case in 2023, one involving a DJ named Trevor Scott Altman. So Altman was charged with third-degree rape, second-degree assault, and fourth-degree assault with sexual motivation after an incident that allegedly occurred at his home. And what makes this case particularly noteworthy is that it wasn't the first time Altman had faced allegations like these.

Back in 2019, Altman was charged with second-degree rape, third-degree. assault with sexual motivation, and unlawful imprisonment stemming from an incident that allegedly occurred at his home in 2018. And in that case, a jury acquitted him of the rape and unlawful imprisonment charges but found him guilty of third-degree assault with sexual motivation. He was sentenced to 15 months in prison, followed by 36 months of community custody. And because he had already spent 15 months in pretrial detention, he was credited with time served. Whoever the story didn't end there. An appellate court later vacated the conviction, finding there was insufficient evidence and ordered the charge dismissed with prejudice.

Altman also had prior convictions in Thurston County, including cyber-stalking with sexual motivation in 2010 and a fourth-degree domestic violence assault in 2016. Fast forward to the 2003 case. According to court documents, the Thurston County deputy responded to a reported sex offense and spoke with a 28-year-old woman. The woman said she and Altman had connected through a dating site before meeting at a bar. Afterward, Alman allegedly invited her back to his home to play pool. The woman told investigators that once there, Altman pressured her to remove her clothes forcefully grabbed her by the throat and forced her to perform oral sex on him. She remained at the home until the next morning because she had been drinking and did not feel safe driving. According to her account,

the next morning, Altman allegedly repeated the assault and secretly recorded her without her knowledge. She later saw him reviewing the footage and asked him to delete it. While he reportedly agreed, she never actually saw the recording being deleted. A deputy went to Altman's home on October 12th and arrested him. When asked if he wanted to speak with investigators, Altman reportedly responded that he doesn't talk to police. Authorities later returned with a search warrant to seize his phone. It's important to know that the allegations in the 2023 case had striking similarities to the allegations from the 2018 incident. In that earlier case, Altman had also been accused of inviting a woman to his home, grabbing her by the throat, and forcing her to perform to

oral sex on him. So despite those similarities, despite Altman's prior criminal history, and despite a judge finding that he posed a substantial danger to the community and could potentially intimidate witnesses or otherwise interfere with the case, prosecutor Olivia Zao ultimately moved to dismiss the charges. The reason she gave was exculpatory information upon further investigation and lack of victim participation. And then there's a case from 2024 involving a woman named Nicole Romanov. According to prosecutors, Romanov was high and driving a stolen vehicle while attempting to flee from law enforcement when she crashed into a car carrying an elderly couple and another passenger. One person was killed and two other suffered injuries. Romanohoff ultimately

pleaded guilty to second-degree murder and vehicular assault while under the influence. However, prosecutor Olivia Zao agreed to dismiss several other charges, including second-degree assault, attempting to elude a pursuing police officer and hit and run. And when it came time for sentencing, Zau requested a mid-range sentence rather than a maximum penalty sought by the victim's family. Explaining that decision, Olivia Zau said, quote, there would have been risk for the state if those charges proceeded through trial, end quote. And then in January of 2025, Zau sought an 18-year prison sentence for a mother named Sarah Lynn Morrell after she was convicted in the death of her three-year-old child.

According to the probable cause in that case statement, Morrell initially told law enforcement that the child had fallen in the bathroom, but investigators say they observed numerous cuts and bruises across the child's body. They also alleged that the child appeared severely underweight, severely malnourished. The attending physician told investigators that the three-year-old weighed only 24 pounds and had suffered blood-force trauma to the head. According to the doctor, the injuries were consistent with the child having been thrown with significant force on at least two occasions. Morrell was originally charged with unlawful imprisonment, first-degree assault of a child, third-degree assault of a child, first-degree criminal mistreatment and witness tampering.

Ultimately, she pleaded guilty to second-degree murder. And then we come to another case that stood out to me. December 2025, a man named Eric Boudreau was sentenced to four 43 years in prison for the murder of a 13-month-old baby. A jury found Boudreau guilty of second-degree murder and returned special verdicts finding three aggravated factors that the victim was particularly vulnerable and incapable of resistance. That Boudreau used a position of trust to facilitate the crime and that his actions demonstrated deliberate cruelty.

The facts of the case are devastating. On Veterans Day in 2022, the child's daycare was closed. Like countless parents do every day, the boy's parents entrusted someone they believed could care for their son and that person was Eric Boudreau. Instead of protecting the child, prosecutors argued that Eric inflicted fatal injuries upon him. And according to the forensic pathologist, the toddler suffered more than 100. and 15 separate injuries.

Those injuries included a school fracture to the frontal bone, a bite mark, multiple lacerations, abrasions, and contusions. Some were concentrated on the head and face, but more than 80 injuries were found in other areas of the child's body. In that case, Olivia Zau argued for a significantly enhanced sentence. She recommended an additional 84 months based on the bruises documented across the child's the body, excluding those on the head and face. She also requested an additional 17 years to represent the years of life that had been taken from the child before he ever had the chance to reach

adulthood. And I think these cases are important to mention because they show that Zau was clearly willing to push for substantial sentences in cases where she believes the circumstances warrant it. She really does. There's definitely cases. in that mix, where some people, though, would argue that the sentence should have been harsher, much harsher, while others seem fairly proportional to the crime and the circumstances involved. However, I think Jeffries's case definitely stands apart. Because when you look at the crimes that Jeffries is admitted, confessed to committing against his own daughters for years and sexual abuse against his own daughter for years,

but also the violence in them. Remember, he took duct tape to his own daughter's mouth and said, by will or by force, she screamed, she had to run away. Years of this. I think many people would agree that the sentence he ultimately received for harming repeatedly three young girls violently assaulting them, and then the amount of time he actually served was not proportional to the

severity of those crimes. He did harm children, three children, for years. It was violent. The psychosexual evaluation shows the violence. It shows the history of harming others. His psychosexual evaluation actually shows that he armed a baby another time. He admitted to other assaults in the psychosexual evaluation. So there's no mathematical way I can see him ever being low risk, but that's what they decided. It makes no sense. He would be low risk to reoffend. It really doesn't. But somehow, he's deemed low risk after years of abusing children, Jeffrey then was eventually released back into the community. And then years later, allegedly tortured and sadistically murdered Marcia Norman, a woman

who trusted him, a woman whose family trusted him. And it's impossible not to ask if Jeffrey Zizz had remained behind bars longer. Would Mars and still be alive today? It's a difficult and uncomfortable question, but, to me, the answer is pretty clear. And because of that history, there are people who believe Olivia Zau should not be prosecuting the Martian Norman case at all. I mean, there's a conflict of interest here. There are also people who fear that instead of taking this case all the way to trial and putting the evidence in front of a jury, the state of Washington could eventually pursue a pleadio.

And again, Washington State doesn't even have the death penalty. if they choose to pursue a plea deal. And to be clear, I am not saying that's what's happening. I'm not saying that they're going to pursue a plea deal. But the concern absolutely exists among people who have followed this case closely. Because if this case were resolved through a plea agreement, there would never be a public trial. There would never be the same level of scrutiny that, you know,

Jeffries is guilty, certainly does not deserve. And there would never be the same. same public examination of Jeffrey's prior case, the sentence he received, and the decisions that the prosecution, Olivia Zau, made that ultimately allowed him to return to the community. Do you see the conflict of interest here? There's a benefit here for someone to just sort of bury this case, and bury the decisions is the prosecution ultimately made. I don't understand why Washington State is allowing the same prosecutor on this

case with this conflict of interest. And let me be clear, Washington to say, again, respectfully does not have the death penalty. A plea deal means a couple decades, possibly behind bars. It means that if Ziz gets out, he's in his 40s. I don't know if I've ever mentioned his age in this, in this, he's in his 40s, early 40s. If Ziz gets out, he could harm more people. I'm pretty sure he shouldn't be deemed low risk at this point. And that's why so many people feel a sense. of urgency right now because for them this isn't just about what happened to Martian Norman. It's also about making sure that the mistakes of the past are not swept under the rug, that others aren't put in harm's way, and that this time justice is pursued all the way to the end.

I know that a plea deal might be the easier thing to do and maybe more preferable for prosecutor Olivia Zau. Then she wouldn't have to undergo any criticism for how did you have his original sexual assault case was handled and how the sentence he received was not only a slap in the face to his victims, but to the public as well, because it was that sentence that allowed Jeffrey Ziz to be free in order to do what he did to Marsha Norman. And even though that's a hard pill to swallow, I think instead of trying to hide from the past, Zau has an opportunity to make things right by taking this case to trial and ensuring that Marcia gets full justice and her family gets closure. Her family, I assume, would want this case to go to trial. And if that is true,

they deserve to see that happen. So please, share this story with everyone you know. Jeffrey Zizz certainly isn't going to share the story. Jeffrey Zizz thinks the media has faded away. Jeffrey Zizz has reassured his mother, Joy Ziz, and his wife, Christy Zizz, and his friends that the media will fade and that the truth will be known that he he isn't going to spend his life in a concrete box like he planned for Marcia to spend her eternity until she was found and until evidence, you know, was uncovered and, you know, was uncovered. all the documents we've shared with you that really make a very compelling case that I think would really get a conviction in trial.

So please share the story, share Marsha's story. Because outside of our channel, I've always seen a very small handful of other creators covering it. And if there are other creators covering it, share their coverage. Maybe you're around 10 or so in the true crime community space. that I've been following, have been covering it or have covered it, that's incredibly low for a case with this level of detail and depravity. And for whatever reason, it just hasn't gained the kind of traction that many other cases do. And I actually wonder, I'm going to be honest to, if it's because Marsha Norman was an older victim. She was 82 years old. This was, this happened

just before the Nancy Guthrie case happened. Caught our attention. What in the world is this case? It's horrific. But, you know, this is an elderly victim. They don't always get the attention that a younger victim might get. But I do believe that the Nancy Guthrie case has also helped us bring attention to these kind of cases because, yes, elderly adults are vulnerable and they are victims. And this is such an important case. And I hope that other cases.

like this gain this kind of traction. But hopefully that starts to change. And we will be aware of older victims of horrific crimes. And with more awareness around crimes against elderly victims, especially in the wake of cases, again, like Nancy Guthrie's abduction, there seems to be a growing willingness to pay attention to these types of cases and demand accountability. The more people who know about this, the harder it is for cases like this to stay in the shadows. We need to apply pressure, use our voices to say that releasing violent predators is not acceptable. And when there is a chance to make it right, those predators need to be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. May justice be served for Martian Norman.