Hidden True Crime - Arizona’s Own Bryan Kohberger? Mount Ord Camping Trip Ends in Brutal Murders | Who is Thomas Brown?

Episode Date: October 8, 2025

What began as a carefree camping trip for two Arizona teens ended in a crime scene deep in the mountains. When their bodies were found in the brush, investigators uncovered a trail that led to an unexpected suspect — a veteran with a chilling secret. This episode unpacks the evidence, the arrest, and the haunting parallels to Delphi and Kohberger that make this case one of the most disturbing yet. About Hidden True Crime What started as a simple conversation at their dinner table became a captivating podcast. Join the dynamic duo of Dr. John Matthias, a criminal psychologist, and Lauren Matthias, an investigative journalist, as they delve into the psychological facets of unthinkable crimes every week. Their unique perspectives and in-depth analysis offer a fresh take on true crime storytelling. Thank you for your support through sponsorships, subscribing, listening, and becoming a Patreon member at⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠Patreon.com/HiddenTrueCrime⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Two friends, a mountain, and the illusion that nothing bad. could happen in paradise. But unfortunately, out there in nature, surrounded by nothing but trees and sky, peace and danger lives side by side. Out in nature, there's no Wi-Fi, no cell signal, and sometimes no way back. While nature is a chance to truly disconnect to unplug from the constant hum of technology of social media and the nonstop pace of everyday life, it also means no sirens or streetlights. There's something freeing about leaving behind the screens, the notification and the pressures of the outside world and just stepping into the quiet where all you can hear are the sounds of wind, trees, and your own footsteps. But with that piece also comes a certain

vulnerability because when you step off the grid, you also step away from all the safety nets that come with staying connected. We probably wouldn't hear nearly as many stories of people vanishing or turning up dead in remote places if there were phone towers, dotting every ridge or cameras on every trailhead the way there are on city streets. And even in cases that weren't far from civilization, like the Delphi, Indiana murders of Abby Williams and Libby German near the Monon High Bridge, it was just secluded enough for something terrible to happen,

hidden from view of anyone who could possibly help. The story, again, that we're covering today carries that same eerie sense of isolation. Two Arizona teenagers set out for what should have been a simple camping trip. But when they didn't return, their disappearance quickly turned to something much darker. A search effort began, and before long investigators stumbled upon a gruesome scene, one that made it painfully clear that what happened to these teens was no accident. But unlike Delphi, this case wouldn't linger unsolved for years. Within months, pieces of the puzzle started to come together,

and now within the last week, we have learned who police believe is. responsible for this shocking and senseless act of violence. So stay with me as I walk through everything we know so far about this disturbing and still developing case. It was Memorial Day weekend 2025, a time that for most people marks the start of summer. School was ending, the heat was settling over Arizona, and the promise of adventure lingered in the air. And for two Arcadia high school students, 18-year-old Pandora Coolsruid, and a 17-year-old Evan Clark, that weekend meant a quick escape. The pair had been friends for years, bright, creative, and well-loved by everyone who knew them. They decided to take a short camping

trip to Mount Org, a rugged and remote area nestled within the sprawling Tonto National Forest northeast of Phoenix. They wanted to celebrate finishing their junior year. Just two kids eager for fresh air, quiet trails, and a little bit of freedom before senior year began. And Dora's mother, Simone, said her daughter was an adventurer through and through. She loved animals, music, and being outdoors. She had two small dogs. She adored, and she never passed another dog on a walk without stopping to say hello. Friends described her as vivacious, a rare type of person who made everyone feel seen and special.

Evan's mother, Sandra Sweeney, described her son as an old soul. He was thoughtful, kind, and creative. The sort of kid who wrote his mom letters on Mother's Day and still gave her hugs every time he left the house. He was funny and bright with a knack for photography and an entrepreneurial spirit. He worked part-time at Crumble Cookies and in his spare time he loved cars, concerts, and trips to the California coast. And to everyone around them, Pandora and Evan were simply good kids, the kind who had big futures ahead of them. They told their families they'd be gone for just one night. they packed their camping gear, loaded it into Evans' silver SUV, and drove north out of Phoenix

toward Mount Ord. They didn't know it, but they would never come home again. When the next day came and went with no word from either teen, concern quickly turned to panic. Sales service on Mount Ord was spotty, so no one could just reach them. Evans' mother, Sandra, couldn't just wait by the phone. She got into her car and drove up the mountain herself, determined to find her son. In a recent interview, view, she said, quote, I decided to go to the location where my son was, drove to the top and saw nothing. Pandora's mother ultimately called the police to report the missing. It wasn't long before law enforcement from Gila County and Maricopa County began searching the area. Mount Ord isn't

an easy place to access. It's wild country, steep, rocky roads and narrow dirt trails that wind through thick brush. It's the kind of place where you need four-wheel drive to even get close to a campsite. Searchers combed the area and in the early morning hours of May 27th, they made a devastating discovery. About a mile and a half from where the teen's vehicle was parked, deputies found the bodies of Pandora and Evan hidden in the brush near a campsite. Both had been shot multiple times. The scene was gruesome. The kind of scene investigators immediately recognize as deliberate and violent. It was obvious this had not. been an accident. It was obvious this was murder. The case was quickly handed over to the Maricopa

County Sheriff's Office and retired FBI agent Martin Helmer explained why this type of investigation would be so difficult. He said, quote, it's wilderness. Where does the crime scene end? And where does it begin? How far out do detectives need to go to comb that area? End quote. Unlike a city crime scene with cameras, doorbell footage, and witnesses, Mount Ord offered none. of that. The environment itself worked against the investigators. Every footprint, every tired track could be erased in hours by wind or wildlife. Shell casings could roll down rocky slopes and evidence could be scattered by animals. And yet, somewhere out there, someone had shot two innocent teenagers, innocent teenagers full of life and then dragged their bodies into the brush to

hide them. For weeks, detectives searched the area for clues. They collected shell casings, tire impressions, and other pieces of physical evidence like a bloody pair of gloves. However, nothing immediately led them to a suspect. All they could do was take swabs from the evidence and wait and wait and wait. The public was desperate for answers. Were Pandora and Evan targeted? Or had they simply crossed paths with the wrong person at the wrong time? What was the motive? Who could have possibly hurt these two teenagers? Authorities weren't sure. And for months, they didn't say. By mid-summer, weeks had turned into months detectives from the Maricopa County Sheriff's Office followed every lead, interviewed other campers, and even brought in federal agencies to help.

But nothing concrete surfaced. Sheriff Jerry Sheridan said publicly that they were doing everything they could but admitted they had no suspect, no clear motive, and no obvious link between the victims and the potential killer. Sergeant Enrique said, quote, despite exhaustive efforts and the pursuit of all available leads, detectives have thus far been unable to develop actionable results, end quote. Pandora and Evans families were left in agony, stuck in the unbearable silence of missing their loved ones and then not knowing who did it or why they would do something so violent and take these precious lives. Their mothers, Simone and Sandra, refused to let the darkness of the murders overshadow the light their children had brought into the world.

They kept speaking out, posting tributes online and reminding everyone who Pandora and Evan were not just victims, but vibrant young lives that deserve justice. And then in early October, everything changed. Four months after the murders, investigators finally announced an arrest. On October 2nd, 31-year-old Thomas Brown of Chandler, Arizona was taken into custody and charged with two counts of first-degree murder in the deaths of Pandora and Evan. And Brown, he wasn't some random drifter. He was a U.S. Army National Guard veteran who had served from 2013 to 2013 to 2000. 2022, almost a decade, including a deployment to Djibouti Africa. He was married. He ran his own small 3D printing business and he lived in otherwise unremarkable suburban life. But investigators say the evidence against him was overwhelming. From the very beginning, Thomas Brown had inserted himself into the case. Just days after the murders, he contacted law enforcement not to confess, but to offer help. Yes, help. He told investigators that he'd been camping on Mount Ord at that same time as the teens from May 23rd through May 26 with his wife. He said his wife Nicole had left early on the morning of May 25th and he stayed behind alone to fly his drone. Brown even provided drone footage. He'd captured near the summit and claimed he'd seen the two teenagers with their SUV around that time. He told deputies that he had

rummaged through a gray tote back near their campsite, but insisted he never took anything, never entered their vehicle, and never, ever had any physical contact with him. And at first, investigators had no reason to suspect him. He was only offering to help. He came across as cooperative, supportive, and, yes, helpful. But other campers who'd been in the area reported something strange. They said, it's seen a man acting oddly, a man who made them uncomfortable. And they described him and their description matching Brown almost perfectly.

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He claimed he never entered the teens' SUV. Remember that? But when forensic results came back, investigators made a stunning discovery. Thomas, Brown's DNA actually was a match for the swabs taken inside the victims vehicle and on their bodies. Even more damning, the pair of gloves. Remember that pair of gloves recovered near the crime scene? It tested positive for blood belonging to both teens and for Browns' DNA inside the gloves. Those gloves were the break investigators needed. And on September 27th, Maricopa County Sheriff's Office homicide detectives returned to Mount Ord to retrace the area

where Thomas claimed he had hiked back in May. Well, during their search, investigators discovered several items scattered along a section of the mountain near a trail, a location not easily accessible by vehicle. The items were quickly recognized as belonging to Pandora and Evan matching objects seen in their social media posts and in video footage obtained from a nearby store.

The scientific evidence contradicted everything Brown had told investigators. According to court documents, detectives concluded that Brown had provided faults and misleading information about his involvement in the murders. The DNA didn't lie. On October 2nd, Thomas Brown was arrested and booked into Maricopa County Jail on two counts of first-degree murder. His bond was set at $2 million cash only. And at his first court appearance, prosecutors described the brutality of the crime. Two teenagers shot multiple times. Their bodies dragged into the brush to conceal them.

They said Brown posed a danger to the community and was a potential flight risk. His defense attorney argued that Brown had simply been in the same area at the same time and that there was no proof he had pulled the trigger. But the DNA evidence in the SUV on the gloves and at the scene told a very different story, a completely different story. At a press conference, the next day, Captain David Lee of the sheriff's office confirmed that investigators believed Brown had acted alone and that there was no evidence suggesting that he knew the victims beforehand. He said, quote, they were, as far as we know, complete strangers calling it a senseless act of violence and the murder of two teenagers while out camping, while out doing something so wholesome. What a senseless, violent act, the murder of two young teenagers while out camping.

Then comes the parents' words nightmare, knocking a door by a sheriff's detective to tell them that their child is dead. And after months of waiting, Pandora's and Evans' mothers finally had the answer they've been praying for. But closure is complicated when your children. are gone forever. Simone said she was deeply grateful to the detectives and everyone who refused to give up. She recently said that she had full faith in our judicial system and knows that Pandora will receive justice. We are all devastated and we miss her every day. All of life's beauty feels less bright without her here. But the light and love and beauty she gave us will be in our hearts forever and the darkness that she encountered on that day when she met her killer will not define

her life. His darkness will never overcome her light. Over the past four months, I have prayed every day that her killer would eventually be brought to justice. The Maricopa County Sheriff's Office and all the homicide detectives and the FBI and all of the agencies who've contributed to this meticulous and thorough investigation. I will forever be grateful for their tireless efforts to bring justice for my daughter. She deserves justice. The homicide detectives have done an excellent job to identify the perpetrator and build the evidence necessary for an arrest. I have full faith in our judicial system to evaluate.

the evidence in this double homicide and find the perpetrator guilty of the violent murders he committed against two innocent teenagers. My daughter's life matters and I look forward to the day the perpetrator is convicted and punished for his crimes. Sandra Evans' mother expressed a bittersweet sense of peace. She wrote, I am so happy that no one has to worry anymore. Now everyone can rest easy knowing he's not going to harm anyone else. End quote. Despite her relief, Sandra has also shown compassion even for the suspect's loved ones. She said, quote, there are people who love this man.

I'm sure he suffers from some issues. Her words are reflection of her own son's nature, kind, understanding, and deeply human. I believe. I spoke with the heartbroken mom of 17-year-old Evan Clark. So you think it was just some random act of horror, horror, absolute horror. Teenage children. As reporters began digging into Brown's background, more details emerged. Brown was a veteran, an Army, staff sergeant who had served honorably.

On social media, he shared pictures of his dog, his gear, and his time outdoors. He was also a small business owner who ran a. company that 3D printed firearm accessories and figurines. It's chilling video of the accused killer charged with the shooting deaths of two high school kids while they were camping. Thomas Brown is firing a semi-automatic weapon he made in his own workshop. She's a monster. She's a big boy. Brown posted the videos on the YouTube channel he uses to promote his 3D printing business, along with a how-to on building a similar weapon.

Police say he shot dead 17-year-old Evan Clark and his high school classmate, 18-year-old Pandora Jules Rude, who were on a Memorial Day camping trip in Arizona. KPHO TV reporter Brianna Whitney has been following the case. Do you think the murder weapon maybe came from his 3D printing business? We know that he was actively 3D printing these military rifle accessories. So yeah, did that become part of the murder weapon here? That becomes a whole other set of an investigation because you can't. can't track things like that as you can a gun.

Investigators have not confirmed whether the weapon used was actually maybe one of Thomas's own 3D printed creations, but the possibility has raised serious questions about how such firearms could complicate the investigation. Brown openly promoted his 3D printing business online showcasing gun parts and accessories that he designed and manufactured himself. And if a 3D printed weapon was involved, it could pose major force. forensic challenges. These guns lack serial numbers and their plastic components can warp or melt after firing, destroying critical evidence. Experts say that makes it difficult to link a specific weapon to a

crime scene or match bullets to a barrel. While investigators remain cautious about drawing conclusions, Brown's background in designing and selling untraceable firearms as another layer of complexity and potentially a chilling dimension to an already devastating case. Regardless, as far as we know, he wasn't some career criminal, nor did he have any known history of violence. But investigators believe something went terribly wrong on that mountain, clearly. His Facebook posts from that time also paint a bizarre picture. On May 25th, the day of the murders, Brown wrote that he had just gotten home from camping at Mount Ord and joked that he regretted, quote, staying one more night, L.O.L. A few days later, when news broke that two teens had been found shot to death there, Brown commented on the story, saying he had been camping in that same area just days before, putting himself at the crime scene.

It seemed as almost like, yeah, he was trying to insert himself into the narrative, maybe to get ahead of suspicion, maybe to deflect it. Retired FBI agent John Lanarelli explained that this type of behavior is not unusual. He said that a lot of criminals realize after the fact, that they haven't actually committed the perfect crime. And some try to get involved in the investigation to make it look like they're just being helpful, helpful witnesses, when in reality, they're the ones responsible. Delphi murderer Richard Allen did the very same thing.

He came forward as a witness, just days after Abby and Libby were killed to share that he had been on the bridge, the day of the murders, almost to deflect, which actually worked for him for five years, until Kathy Shank and covered that witness account. And that's exactly what detectives believe Thomas Brown did too,

to make it look as if he was being helpful and not denying that he was actually there. But this time, unlike Delphi, an arrest happened much more quickly. And Richard Allen, though, isn't the only parallel drawn in this case. There are many people talking about how they believe that Thomas Brown has a very similar look in his eyes as who, Brian Coburger, which is kind of blank, emotionless. Or as Dr. John, my co-host would say, no affect at all. Or as I would say, scary. And as of now, Thomas Brown remains behind bars awaiting trial. Prosecutors have charged him with two counts of first-degree murder, and the investigation continues to build toward a full indictment. Authorities have not released a

motive and maybe there isn't one that makes sense. I don't know. They've ruled out self-defense and they've confirmed that Brown and the victims were strangers. So I highly doubt any motive would ever make sense. This is so senseless. But for the families, the focus now is justice. Pandora's mother said she will never, ever stop fighting for her daughter's memory. And Sandra, who lost her only child, says this grief is something that she will live with. Forever, I can only imagine. But she does find comfort knowing Evan's story will not be forgotten. When you strip away the legal proceedings, the evidence, and the headlines, what's left

are two young lives stolen too soon? And for what? Pandora, the vibrant music-loving teen with an infectious smile and a love for every creature she met, she should be enjoying her senior year. And Evan, the thoughtful, compassionate old soul who made everyone around him feel loved and seeing. He should also be enjoying his last year of high school, and their families say the darkness of what happened to them will never eclipse the light they brought into this world. That they share. They were out there that week in doing something pure and simple, enjoying nature,

celebrating life, and looking for the future. And that's what makes this story so haunting. Because it could have been anyone's son or anyone's daughter or brother or sister, anyone's best friend, anyone's classmate, two kids on a camping trip, and a random act of violence that changed everything. As this case moves forward, and investigators work to uncover every remaining detail, Mount Ord stands quiet, unchanged, yet forever marked, but what happened there. For Pandora Koolsrad and Evan Clark, a simple camping trip meant to celebrate freedom and friendship, ended in tragedy. In the months since, their families have carried their memories forward with strength and grace, determined that their names be remembered for how they lived, not how they were lost.

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