Hidden True Crime - BEYOND THE VEIL: Interview with Tammy Daybell's Aunt Vicki Hoban

Episode Date: July 21, 2023

Lori Vallow Daybell has been convicted of conspiracy in the death of Tamara Douglas Daybell. Vicki Hoban, Tammy Daybell's aunt, is preparing to give a victim impact statement at Vallow Daybell's sentencing on July 31, 2023 but first she speaks to Hidden True Crime's Lauren Matthias to share more about Tammy and what her family has suffered due to Vallow Daybell's crimes. HIDDEN TRUE CRIME: A forensic psychologist and journalist (who are husband and wife) explore the inner workings of Chad Daybell and Lori Vallow Daybell's minds, as well as the hidden motivations driving a series of inexplicable murders in 2019. While Lauren attended Lori's trial and plans to attend her sentencing in July of 2023, the hosts continue interviewing and investigating what's Hidden, just as they have been for three years. You can get caught up by listening to our full 'Beyond the Veil" season. LAUREN MATTHIAS worked as an anchor and reporter for ABC, NBC, and FOX News in Boise, Idaho Salt Lake City, Utah. She spent a decade reporting on a diverse range of topics from high profile crimes and criminals to Presidential visits. Most recently, she reported for Salt Lake City’s ABC affiliate News4Utah and in 2015 she received the Idaho State Broadcaster’s Association Best Reporter award and has been reporting with News Nation throughout the trial. She is the producer and editor of the Hidden True Crime Podcast along with her husband Dr. John Matthias, a forensic psychologist. Contact them at [e-mail] WEBSITE: https://hiddentruecrime.com/ TO SUPPORT: https://www.patreon.com/hiddentruecrime https://paypal.me/hiddentruecrime https://cash.app/$hiddenTruecrime. DISCLAIMER: The views of our guests/interviewees, do not reflect the views of Hidden True Crime. Our Sponsors:* Check out Acorns: https://acorns.com/HIDDENTRUECRIME* Check out Acorns: https://acorns.com/HIDDENTRUECRIME* Check out Armoire and use my code HIDDENTRUECRIME for a great deal: https://www.armoire.style* Check out Effecty and use my code HIDDENTRUECRIME for a great deal: https://www.effecty.com* Check out Happy Mammoth and use my code HIDDENTRUECRIME for a great deal: https://happymammoth.comSupport this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/hidden-a-true-crime-podcast1836/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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It is happiness at work from AI products. Hello, Hidden Gems. I am so excited to be here

today with a very special person. And I know we're not, you know, crimes are not exciting.

But I am so excited to be with a friend of mine and someone that I have been wanting to introduce to the hidden true crime community because she is so special.

I got to know Vicki Hoban, who is Tammy Daybell's aunt during the trial. That was like going to war together almost, everyone that sat in there every day. And we all got to know one another. And Vicki was no exception to that. I am so honored, Vicki, that you would be here today. I know that you soon have an interview with court TV and you said, know I'm going to jump on with Hidden True Crime first. Thank you. And, you know, truly thank you. We know how private Tammy's family has been the past three years, respectfully so, understandably so.

And for you to trust our community and me enough to come on here and share a few things means so much to us and especially live. We don't always do live interviews. And I asked Vicky, would you be willing? And you said yes. It just adds to a bit more of the intimate conversation. And so thank you. You are among friends. I guess I want you to know right now.

Yeah. I feel good. I feel good. I'm comfortable. Good. Good. To explain how Vicky is, well, why don't you explain? How are you Tammy Daybell's aunt for stock?

So my sister, my oldest sister, fellas is Tammy's mom. Yeah. And so that's, so Phyllis, and then I have another sister, Barbara, and then me, and then I have a little brother, Sam, and that's our family. Okay. And you are all, I want to point this out, too, because we all know about Grandma Lucille on this channel. And you are Grandma Lucille's daughter, Phyllis, and you are both Grandma Lucille's daughter, Lucille, is who Chad used to shame Tammy playing his video games. He claimed that Lucille visited him from beyond the grave and swore it, Tammy. Do you want to clear that up to you?

Do you want to be Lucille's actual voice? Yeah. So that's a sensitive issue with me for sure. Because I don't, when she was alive, I didn't allow people to treat her a certain way. And then to find out that he was using her as his conduit to manipulate people, especially Tammy, because she was just such a sweetheart. and to pull that and to pull my mom into it. And just everybody, you know, we're very, not all of us are religious people,

but we're very spiritual people. And so to bring her in and to use her in that way, yeah, that just not buying it. And I, when they first told me about it, the first thing I thought is, wow, why would she, if she was going to come and talk to somebody, why would it be Chad? I mean, there's not even a reason to come to chat.

I mean, I can see she would have, you know, had a message for Phyllis because she was sick and going through a lot of things. But no, I never bought that. I never believed it. I don't, you know, I don't necessarily just, that whole scenario just stunk to me. and I'm not feeling good about it.

Still not happy with it. And to be honest, I want that chapter taken out of his book. And that may be my next project. I support you in that project. No one should be, should not be using your mother. Right. Yeah. Especially, you know, looking back now what's happened,

obviously everybody knows that it just was a story he made up. And so that makes it really, you know, even worse because now we're dealing with, not only is she in a book that's just full of just a bunch of stuff that he made up, but it's a negative, you know, for Tammy because he was using it against her. Yeah. Yes. Big news. Let's start with the big news.

And then I want to share some of your experiences with Tammy because Tammy, And Vicki were close as aunt and niece. And we'll talk about that in just a little bit. But I want to congratulate you. Is congratulations the right word? I don't even know. But I want to say I'm proud of you. Maybe that's the better word.

I'm proud of you for fighting to be Tammy's voice or one of her voices at the sentencing on Monday, July 31st. Many people mentioned I got that date wrong. I know. I, everything is on, summer schedules, guys,

court would never be on a Saturday. Like every weekend, I have like a different event. So I just go by weekends in the summer. But yes, Monday, July 31st is the sentencing for Lori Valo Debel.

And you have had to fight for your voice to be heard. And yesterday, you, uh, you were made a representative for your mother, or for your, for your sister,

Phyllis, who, recently passed away. I'm so sorry. Tammy's mother. And you will be able to speak for your niece on Phyllis's behalf at the sentencing. Is that right? A big impact statement? Yeah. The way that it works is that you have to be a, well, there's a long list of people that can speak, but aunts, uncles, and grandparents are not on that list, which is, you know, a little different because those are your blood relatives. In-laws can speak, brother-in-law's, mother-in-law, those people can all speak. So because my sister passed away, she and my sister Barbara, and we sat under a tree last summer

and knowing that this was going to be happening and knowing that, you know, obviously she was ill. and we sat under a tree and she said she got in a tear and she goes you know never be able to you know make the trip and you know to it was really hard for her because she didn't want to put any hate in her body because she knew that the cancer would just feed off of that so she really tried to really be positive and even though you know obviously she was heartbroken over what had happened and she said you know never I'm never going to be there and then it's okay I don't think I get emotional with this but um Barbara and I told her um where where you can't walk we'll carry you if you can't talk we'll speak for you and we'll just keep going as far as we can't

none of us are young gal. So, you know, there's, for instance, my sister Barbara is now not well. So we told her we would follow through with this. And then when I found out, oh my gosh, you know, none of us knew that aunts wouldn't be allowed. And so the process was after fellows passed away, I had asked. the prosecutor, I'd like to speak on behalf of my sister and, or just speak. It doesn't, I don't have to single fell us out or, you know, anybody in their family. I just, I wanted to be able to give an impact statement because we had sat under that tree

for so many hours and talked about the impact of it and how we felt about what had happened. And I just think that, you know, I had something to say. And whether it was for her or me or the way it impacted our family or anything, I really had something I wanted to say. And of course, my sister has, you know, other children. She has a Ron. She's a great family. And but, you know, I had been at the trial.

I'd seen some of the things that went on there. So I really wanted to speak. And so I did end up at the prosecutor's office, they don't really get involved in that. And so I submitted a letter on their suggestion. I submitted a letter to the judge and just kind of went through, you know, a timeline of what it happened and where I was now that my sister had passed, which she did not know. And yesterday, you know, according to the laws of the state of Idaho. he really was thoughtful in his process and that I appreciated so much because it ended up that it's well within the law what I asked him to rule and that was that I would be able to speak

on behalf of her or her family and so yeah I'm I can't say I'm excited to do it but it's going to be for me and it's going to fulfill something I promised my sister and And yeah, I'm looking forward to doing it. I have a few things I do have to say. And I don't know if it's going to be too long. You know, I've watched a few videos just to wonder, just wondering even how that process works. And boy, people are all over the place. But I don't know that I'm going to be doing too many swearing and, you know, running all around the courtroom.

But, you know, I do have a few things I do want to say to her. I can't hear you. Thank you for reminding me. I was on mute. I know that you mentioned, I know that Ashley Banfield mentioned to you, hey, if you can't give this victim's impact statement, you can do it here on News Nation. And I've offered the same platform like you can share it with us.

And you've said to both of us and everyone that asks you, thank you. But I want to be able to be in the room. I want Lori Valo Debel to hear me. Yeah. And she will now. Yeah. I want her to have to look at me. I had to watch her so many hours and the smirking and the laughing and through horrific testimony and photos and just I can't explain what it's like to be looking at something that horrific and having the person that mastermind smiling.

It's just gut-wrenching. and I don't know that anybody that they'll say if you had to go through that would understand that. But yeah, that's kind of what really has kind of propelled me into really wanting to speak my peace. Thank you. And you will not be the only voice for Tammy that day now. Is that right? Can you share it with us? Yeah.

So I spoke to Samantha this morning. So excited. She's going to be there too. And for Samantha is Tammy's sister, everyone. Yeah. So I'm super stoked. I think that she had been planning this for a while and just hadn't confirmed it. I know there's a lot of people, why isn't her sister, why are her kids?

You know, everybody has their own process. And she could have decided this months ago. I don't know what her process was, but she has every right to go in there and blast her. So I don't know what she's going to come up with, but I'm sure that it's going to be meaningful. Tammy's only sister. They were close. Yeah, they were very close. Yes.

Especially in the later years because after high school, they lived right around the block from each other. And so, you know, they were having children at the same time. And, you know, they were right there. They both worked at, they both taught. They both worked at schools. They had a lot in common. these, you know, close sisters. That would have been really hard for when Chad sort of took her away from her and her family in

Springville and moved to Rexburg. Yeah, I think it just, their whole family was just devastated. I know I made a phone call to her about it. And I was like, gosh, you're moving. You know, it's Leah's last year. And she didn't want to move. And then she just, I think she, and she said she was praying about. it and I think at the end I don't know if he just I don't know if she kept praying until

she said what yes or if she acquiesced I don't know about that but I know that she had expressed that she understood my point which was well as this is Leah's last year and you know it's going to be hard for her to move as it worked out she did really well there but to lose her whole family her whole support group I mean it just, that was a lot. It was a lot to ask of her. I think it isolated her a lot too from those she loved during those last, those last. Yeah.

I don't think anybody, I do think that people wondered what was his, why he had such a strong push that way. And as he kind of unveiled it, you know, I think that the really, important thing is that I think he had a plan and that this plan was in the works. That's the way now, looking back, you can kind of see the way it laid out. And unfortunately, you know, this was about starting a whole new life with apparently a new church he was creating with someone else. Right. Right. Tell us a little bit about how you know your niece Tammy and how close you are.

You were Phyllis's youngest younger sister. So you're a little bit closer to Tammy's age and you guys were close, right? Well, we, you know, I had a close, I have a good relationship with my nieces and nephews. I mean, some of them are closer with and others with her, with Tammy in particular, because we got to work together for about a year and a half. That was the time I really got to get close with her and really find out who she was and she found out who I was.

And it was her senior year and the summer that she was in high school. And so, yeah, we worked together at her mom's, Phyllis had a huge temperware distributorship. and she was an amazing businesswoman. So Tammy gets it then. Yeah, for sure. I mean, her kids are all brilliant. All of her kids are really sharp.

And Ron is really smart. And they had it coming from both directions. But she worked with Barbara. Barbara was like the controller. She had all finances for the business. And then I worked in the office with Barbara. and then Tammy did a lot of the peripheral stuff, but she would come in. And yeah, it's like anybody you work in an office with, you know what that's like.

You know, it's boring until you make it fun. And we just learned we learned a lot about each other, what made each other tick, the laughing and the, you know, for people that are from Utah, if you're from Provo, you know scones. So there was always the scone run. You know. Not British scones, everyone. No, no, provost scones. Right.

Mormon scones, yes. Yeah, that was like a big thing. Like, okay, who's going to make the scone run? And it just, like, we just got to know each other. Like, when she would come in sad, I would just wrap my arms around her because she just needed a hug. She was, you know, and she was the kind of person. that knew when she needed a hug. And so she would accept it.

Some people are kind of, you know, I don't know. But she would take a hug. And we, Barbara often had to tell us to stop and go to work because we would be laughing about something. And she had a way of laughing. And she would kind of toss her head back. And then she would kind of go forward and then kind of just keep giggling. And so it would just kind of get us going back and forth and laugh.

and, you know, we were a couple, I should have been more adult than I was. But, yeah, I just had such a great time. We, I just love her. That never, you know, that never ended. I had that relationship with her. And then, of course, she started, got married and she started her family and she had Garth and Garth was just a bright little guy. In fact, I didn't have any grandchildren at that time.

And so I would call her and just ask her how guard was doing. She would tell me different things you would do. And so I was like, this kid is really smart. So I would drop off the little educational things. And one time I bought him a globe and took it over. And I go, I don't know, this is pretty advanced for like a two-year-old. But, you know, let's get a shot. And so she worked with him with that thing.

And like three weeks, three, four weeks later, I went over there. And he was finding everything. Like he was just working that thing. And she'd go, okay, Australia. And he would put the little, you know, he really, you know. So, I mean, it went down. She was really good that way with their kids. She loved being a mother.

Very engaged. Yeah, very engaged. And I would go there and I was like, Tammy, there are toys everywhere. There's like her whole house was full of toys. And she said, you know what I figured? I have the answer to how to keep my house clean. And I said, what's that? And she goes, I put the toys away once.

She goes, at night, after they go to bed, I put them. And that's it. That's when the house is. She's better than me. You're so smart. Like that. She goes, and then I can sit down and watch TV or read a book. And then I don't worry about it.

She goes, in the morning, they just have it at it. You know, she was just good. that way and just kind of I don't know she just felt like she was going to let them be who they were and develop and she was there to help along that process so yeah I thought she was a mom I liked her I liked her as a mom and that's a big compliment for me because I'm I'm very like mom like I'm a mom watcher. So when I see people engaged with their kids, that's

to me is there's nothing better. So you saw that in your niece and town? And I heard that I've heard from many people that she and Garth had a very close relationship and what a good boy he is. And so thank you for sharing that story. I absolutely love Garth.

I just love him. And the fact that he's had any hurt from what people have said about him or what he's gone through, it really hurts me because he's a great, great guy. He really is. He really is. And he's in the tough spot.

He is. Thank you for sharing that. And I know there's a lot of heartbreak. You've lost, you know, your whole family lost Tammy. But it also sort of fractured the family. because of the heartbreak. Can I ask if there's any communication right now with any of her children?

I know that there is some limited conversations. And I know that Ron, in jealous, worked really hard to keep that going. I know that, you know, Ron could sure use that now and I don't know how much of it he's getting. I try to just steer clear of that because I know that's really a tough situation for them. But I just always said, you know,

they know how much you love them. And I know they love her. I know. It made me sad because she was so forgiving and really tried hard not to carry any more. malice or any, you know, those feelings that all of us feel. She was a peacemaker. It was really, yeah, I think she was the type of person that we could be so upset over

something that happened in the press or something that was set or, you know, just hurt. And she would be the one that would say, you know, let's bear up. Let's, you know, let's, we can't change what happened and it hurts us, but let's bear up. Most people don't realize how much their personal information is being bought and sold every day. Data brokers are making billions, pulling details about you from public records and the Internet, and then packaging and selling it, usually without your consent. That's how your information lands in the hands of scammers, spammers, even stalkers. It's why you get endless robocalls and why ads seem to follow you everywhere.

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Protect yourself now atora.com slash remove. Be like Christ. She was very, I don't want to talk about her too much because it's still, we're still in mourning and it's still a really tender place for me. But she was a lot better than I would have been. Yeah. What's one financial lesson you learned the hard way? I'll go first.

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Simply go online, type in how much money you'd put in and see the potential future balance of your account. up now and join the over 13 million all-time customers who've already saved and invested over $22 billion dollars with Acorns. Head to Acorns.com slash Hidden True Crime or download the Acorns app to get started. Paid non-client endorsement. Compensation provides incentive to positively promote Acorns, tier one compensation provided. Investing involves risk. Acorns Advisors LLC and SEC registered investment advisor. A few important disclosures at acorns.com slash hidden true crime. Were you able to see the children at Phyllis's funeral and catch up at all? They did not come to her funeral.

I noticed that a few of them were, it was on, it was Zoom also. So a few of them I noticed Ted watched it on Zoom and Gareth had sent a message that he loved her. It's heartbreaking. I'm so sorry. It is. It is heartbreaking. I just know that a, you know, someday they'll, that that part hopefully will be over. I doubt it will be in my lifetime, but I just at some point, they'll know the truth of things.

Yeah. Right now they're protecting themselves and doing what they can. I would be protecting my heart and not knowing it has to be confusing. They have to make decisions that nobody would ever want to make. And unfortunately, it affected fellas that, you know, I think she didn't have as close of a relationship with them. and I really wish that there would have been an effort there, but I also, I don't know how to, you know,

I don't want to be angry with them. On the other hand, it breaks my heart. And I don't know how to, you know, how to explain it more than I wish they, I truly wish they would have understood that loving her didn't have anything to do with their dad. Yeah. Thank you.

There was a story. I know we only have you for so long. And for those that want to continue watching Vicky after this, you can head over to court TV. She'll be with Chanley. Chandley is a friend of the program. And so I think it's wonderful you'll be interviewing with her next. But there was a story that you shared with me at trial about Tammy cutting her hair.

Are you encouraging Tammy to cut her hair? Can you share that story? I love that story. Yeah, it's kind of a fun story because she was, you know, she was kind of coming into her own. And, you know, you start to when you're high school is really hard, at least for most people. We're all, even the popular group,

they're all wondering, you know, how goofy they look. High school is hard. High school's heart. It's almost like when somebody goes, do you have to go back with what you know now to go to high school? I'm like, not really. But she, yeah, so she was, it was her senior year,

and she had come into work and she was crying. She's like, I can't do anything with my hair. I just felt ugly. I just, this, you know, the normal teenage girl things. And Barbara and I were just listening to her. And I said, you know, just like, I go, look at this hair, style in this book. It's like short and it's like, you know, it's really like fancy. Like you'd look like you were from Paris. Look at that. And I go, this would look so cute on you.

Like, she goes, oh, should I do it? It was like a whole afternoon. Oh man, I really want to. And I go just go do it. Just go take that picture and go do it and go get your hair cut. She thought about it. And she thought about it. And then the day was kind of over. And well, she was leaving. She left earlier than the rest of us. And she left. And it's like, okay, she's gone.

And then, like, a few hours later, she comes back in. And she pops her head in. And she's got just like this really gorgeous haircut. And the biggest smile. And she goes, I feel like a woman. Like, I feel like. And she was just coming into her own. Like it was just so, so, I don't know what it did.

I know the haircut you're talking about. It's her senior photo in her yearbook. And I'll try to find it and post it later on the community post in YouTube. She does have this big smile on her senior yearbook photo. It like totally like turned a key, put the switch. I don't know what. But every day she would come in. And then I would be like, oh, look at his hair.

it's tamois from France. And she would be like, she would like model for us. And Barbara and I would just, we just thought, I mean, we just thought the world of her. We just did. We just, you know, she was just fun. And her, my other niece, Patty, they were like best friends. And she, we talked about this all the time. She goes, that was just like she was really feeling herself and really coming.

in to who she was. And that haircut, something like that seems like so little, but yet it's so something like that can just change the way you look at yourself. And she just, yeah, it just came into her own. She looked gorgeous. And, you know, you were in the same town. The day bells were there too. Were you there when she was dating, Chad, around?

that time or was that a time you weren't? No, so I was there. I know he said he met her at a dance, but I introduced them before that. And my daughter reminded me of that the other day. She said, mom, you remember, you introduced them. And I was like, I did. She was, yeah, we were somewhere at church and something happened.

And you were like, oh, this is Matt, Dave, because Matt was in my Sunday school class. And Matt is Heather Daybell's. Husband, yeah. Okay. Who's like, he was just perfect in my eyes. I adore Matt. And Heather, I love him both.

But anyway, so I introduced him. And apparently he, she caught his eye because they went to one of the single dances. And then the rest was history. And in fact, he was driving by our house one day, one morning. and it was not too long after I introduced them. And one of my daughter, Julie's friends, came limping to our front door. And she's like, oh, my gosh, my jeans are ripped.

My brand new jeans are ripped. She was crying, my brand new jeans are ripped. I'm like, what happened? She goes, somebody just hit me with their car. And I was like, what? And so I go running out, and it's Chad. And I guess he got blinded by the morning light. And she was crossing on the crosswalk.

and he bumped her hard enough to not yeah because nobody knows the start you're getting the exclusive she bumped her hard enough to knock her down on her knees and broke and scratched both of her knees and ripped her yeah so yeah that was I was like okay Chad we're going to start off with you marry and Tammy we have to stop running over her hands but yeah ever did stop running over. How ironic. Oh, gosh. Oh, man. Sorry. Yeah, that's just. No, I get it.

But yeah, so that's, little by little, he kind of just, you know, we've got to know him better and better. And, you know, that's why it's so hard when I see, you know, when I hear the things and the vulgarity that comes out of him and the texts and all of the things that go along with what's going on right now, it's so difficult because that is not the person that I know. And so for me, I can only imagine that he was leading a double life. And he was really good at it.

And now we're seeing this other guy, this Rhode Island. The Long Island, the Long Island Lisk. Yeah. Real killer, Rex. I don't I've seen a little bit on it. I haven't I don't know a lot about it because I'm obsessed. We interviewed a woman that went out with him yesterday on our channel. I don't know if you saw that.

No. Yesterday was a crazy day for me. But he was leading a double. I had a family, you kids and everything else. And I, you know, I don't know if this is a sign of our times where it's a, you know, where men are not taught or, or, they're psychologically off or what's going on. But these guys leading these double lives, I mean, it's scary.

It frightens me. Yeah. Yeah. No, and I think after you go through it, too, after you become a victim and a survivor, you get an eye for it too. I think, in my opinion, there have been people living double lives all throughout history. But once you experience it in your family and you, you see. you start to notice it more.

You do. And I tell you, it really brings, for me anyway, such a level of distrust of people. And that's one thing that I struggle with right now. And I think I talked to you a little bit about it before is that I don't let very many people in.

I'm really cautious of people because I don't trust people. I always think there's an ulterior motive or why are they asking me that or yeah that happens to after you after you go through trauma that's normal yeah I understand um you know you you will be standing in front of Lori Valo Debel in just a little over a week sharing your victim impact statement and and what this is of how this has affected you, your whole family, Phyllis, your sister, who lost her daughter, you know, and I know you've mentioned that the trial was so much, you almost feel like that's when her health really started to decline. Is that true? Yeah, she definitely, yes. And she trusted Chatt, too. She was, she loved him like a son. She treated him like a family member. We all did. So she felt she was very betrayed, I can say. Very much.

And sad for her baby. You know, somebody treats your child. I mean, you're a mom. Somebody, even if you go to daycare and you find out somebody was needed to your child, you're just like sick about it. But somebody that you trust that deeply with your child. And to do that is, just it's un-calling it's unscifiable it's

suspectable I think you ever fully absorb it even now to this day I still think about it and it's like all over getting hit with it all over again because it's like why why no for no reason she could have come she would have been welcome any where she went in any of our homes there was that we have a big family. She could have come to any of us. Her kids could have come to any of us. It's just like with Kate, like I, JJ, they would have taken JJ in a heartbeat. Right. Highly, she could have gone anywhere. And you know, in a, in a weird twist of irony, maybe, my daughter knew Lori before. We didn't know that.

That's a whole leather. We'll have to do it. I'm going to bring that up. No, no. I, and we can talk about another time, but in a very, I do want to share in a very strange twist of events, Vicki Hoban met Tiley. Yeah. And Tiley.

Vicki knew Tiley. Was one of my granddaughter's, uh, friends. One of her friend groups. In Arizona, states apart. You, your granddaughter was close friends with Tiley and you had met Tiley. In fact, we have a midnight candlelight vigil for them and we still have, we have the banner and all the kids signed it. It's got a big picture of Tilein, JJ, and I'm thinking about taking it.

I don't know where, I don't know if there's still, if we can hang it up at the property. I don't really know. That's another question. Maybe somebody can get me the answer to, but I would love to be able to put it up after the sentencing and at least have it up for a while because. they were not this this whole story has touched probably millions hundreds and thousands of people and I just you know it I guess I can't even explain how I want to it's a weird thing to say but I guess I want to include them in in the healing part of this and like put let's put a period on this

one and then let's go get chat yeah yeah um i'm going to explain this um relationship a little bit more and then let everyone know because it is bizarre to me too when i first learned this i think when you guys told me you know your daughter was with you at the trial and um it is it is it is mind it is i mean what are the chances um so i'll share this but this is mostly about tammie today but Vicky's daughter went to church with Tiley and Lori and JJ and talked

and Charles and Charles and knew them all. So your daughter Tammy DeBell's cousin knew everyone. She was close to Lori. They work in the primary presidency together. And there's a couple different layers. I mean a couple roads we go down here, Lauren,

and I don't know. You probably can't do it in two minutes. But if you want to do the two minute version, she taught, she taught Tiley. We'll do the two minute version. Thank you. She taught your daughter taught Tiley in Sunday school. And your granddaughter was close to Tiley.

You've sent me private photos of them together and the photos you have of Tiley. This is a bizarre coincidence. You knew everyone. Like this has affected your family. Well, I owned a floral shop. across the street from the subdivision where Charles was shot. My floral shot, it was like everybody was running around in the parking lot.

They're saying some guy was killed across the street. And this was six months before we realized, because this happened in July. And my daughter was telling me that somebody got, you know, got killed or whatever. And anyway, we pieced it together finally when Chad married Lori, what was happening, who it was. And she's like, oh, my gosh, I loved her. Like she was so charming and blah, blah, blah.

And her kids, and she goes, oh, that little JJ was just a spitfire. And we just, like everybody in the primary, just loved him. It was so adorable. But, and then the red flags. started coming back in our head, but yeah. And the red flags being that he was a little bit controlled by Lori. Can I say that? So, yeah, a lot.

And Charles was the main caregiver for JJ when he was at home. We're not traveling. And your grander, you know, we'd invite Tiley out, not me, but I'm just saying in general, I'm just trying to keep, people grow friends would invite Tyler out and then she would say, we're going to do that.

She go, I can't go. My mom says I'm sick. Yeah. I don't know. I know that she had pancreatitis when she was a little one. But her mother would tell her when she could and couldn't go out because she would tell her she was sick. Yeah, which there's like some odd things that come up in your head there. And I don't want to judge that because I'm sure there's people

that are going to be like, well, that I It's okay, we'll leave that to my husband. We've done a whole episode. We really need Yes, for those that are interested, I mean that Lori Valo-Dabelle Part 2, we talk a lot about this. I don't know if a moderator, Troublemaker, Baker, Julie, you're so good at that, Pauline,

but it's Lori Valo-Dabelle part two. It's also most recently on our podcast. We still have our podcast and I think it's the second to last episode on our podcast. And we have a YouTube video where we actually discuss some evidence that shows that we, you don't have to say it is what I'm saying, that you're sort of validating what we are suspecting. And get an idea of it, yeah. Yeah.

You've shared a lot with us today. Thank you more than I thought you would. It means a lot. I'm really, really happy that you get to give us. a victim impact statement. It is actually, everybody knows I have insomnia. People, we call it our insomnia crew here. I show up all of a sudden at 3-end. We're like, oh, look, Lauren's here. You know, my overseas guests are like, oh, good, I can catch you live. And, you know, it's kept me up. I'll be honest. You not being able to give a victim impact statement has, um, and many things do,

right, everything does. But it has, it has kept me up at night. And the relief I felt knowing that you'd be able to give that victim impact statement. I am so grateful. I'm so grateful. I'm going to be there. I want everyone to know that we are going to live stream the sentencing. People have been asking, is it going to be live? We will be live streaming the sentencing here, a hidden true crime,

which means that your victim impact statement will be live, as will Samantha's, as will Kay's, Kay Woodcock will be giving her victim impact statement. I can't wait to hear it. I can't wait to hear it. I just love, I absolutely love Kay and Larry. I, I, I, deeply that they were able to keep this in the front, forefront until we got to the kids. You two were, you two were a support for each other at the trial, I noticed, or it seemed. Yeah. And I can't wait to hear what Samantha has to say. Anybody that's giving a statement, this has affected people in so many different ways,

and I just can't wait to be able to hear and connect with that because I know how I've, like you, I've been up, I've been up more than I've slept for a lot of years now. And this is going to be really meaningful. And then we're done. And every victim now will have a voice. JJ will have a voice. Tiley will have a voice. And Tammy Daybell will have a voice in Idaho on Monday, July 31st.

A lot of people correct me. Lauren, it's not on Saturday. You're right. Court would never be on Saturday. I'm sorry, guys. I just like just section all my summers into weekends. How's your brother? Thank you for asking.

Yeah, that was a big. part of me being at the trial, huh, my brother. The good news is he's in our hometown now. We've been able to bring him back. He was a New York City boy. He'd been living there for years. And he had been in Miami for months because his accident was in the Dominican Republic and they flew him to Miami, the closest hospital.

And he was in ICU for months. And so we finally got him to a place last week where he was transferred. to my hometown, you know, in the Mountain West. And so he's closer to family and friends. And that's a relief for everyone. We've all been taking turns in Miami. It's been heart's relief. But now it's up to our family and friends to hopefully wake him up,

get him to improve, get his brain back. So we'll see. Just circle around him as much love as you can. Thank you. plan to go visit him right after the sentencing. So it'll be a bit of a travel. We'll go to Idaho and then I'll go visit my brother and my family and then head back. I'm going to be making a trip to I think probably where you're going. So yeah. Thank you, Vicki, for being with us today. Truly, it means so much to me. This is a, you know, the emotions and feelings and you even

mention the trust you have. With the trauma, you and your family's experience is so real. And so to come here and share what you did is not a small thing. And it means a lot to us. We want to get to know Tammy. We love Tammy. And so thank you for allowing us to get to know her a little bit more. And we'll all be listening to you here at Hidden True Crime.

Share your victim impact statement. I'm nervous about it a little bit because, you know, I think it's a little bit nerve-wracking. I don't want to miss anything. But I'm happy to be there and so grateful to the judge. So grateful. Judge Boyce was very methodical and very, I believe he was very thoughtful.

You wrote him and he was quick. And he understood and he was compassionate in his order. I felt. I really felt that, of course, I zoomed through to the last page. I didn't read anything. I just went, and when it said, the end was,

yes, she will, I was like, okay, now I can sit down and read. And I, it was very thoughtful on his decision making.

Yeah, so it would be ordered. You want to think bad about him from me. I appreciated him all through the trial. It was tough. He was tough.

And I know your phone got taken away. And, you know. Just once. Just one. You're not. I deserve to be taken away.

I just, I like actually, it went off in the middle of court, and I, like, threw it down the aisle. I'm like, take it. Like, you know, the bailiff came over. I'm like, just passed the phone. He was asked of shame. He was texting me your phone number, and it was right when the door shut, and her phone, my, our phone's doing, and she goes, I'm turning it off. We were both just like in a panic.

So, yeah, I get it. We were a little naughty, but it was really getting. We connected with a group of us ladies, and you guys were such a support and still have been. You guys have gotten me through some rough, rough days. And yeah, I love y'all. Thank you. Thank you. Well, we'll be seeing each other soon.

So I'll see you there. Thank you for being here. You can go and watch more Vicky over at Court TV, everyone with Chandley, our friend Chandley. Thank you. All right. Okay, we'll see you soon, Vicki. Take care. Okay, bye-bye.

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