Hidden True Crime - Blue Barrel Killer: Dr. John Analyzes Alleged Heinous Sex Crimes

Episode Date: August 13, 2024

Timothy Haslett Jr. was first arrested in October of 2022 after a woman, identified only by her initials in docs as TJ, saved her life by escaping out of what was essentially a homemade torture chamber, where she had been held captive. Fast forward to July of 2024, Timothy Haslett was charged with the murder of Jaynie Crosdale. Jaynie’s remains were found in a blue barrel in the Missouri River by kayakers.  This is a case Hidden True Crime has been following since the very beginning. We recommend listening to previous episodes covering this case, starting with the episode titled, 'If You See a Blue Barrel: Kansas City House of HORRORS | Timothy Haslett Jr. Excelsior Springs' About Hidden True Crime: Lauren Matthias was a television reporter for a decade and she and her husband, Dr. John Matthias, a forensic criminal psychologist, started Hidden True Crime in 2020 with their Season, 'Beyond the Veil,' a psychological deep dive into the doomsday murders of Chad Daybell and Lori Vallow. What started as a simple conversation at their dinner table became a captivating podcast. Join the dynamic duo of Dr. John Matthias, a forensic criminal psychologist, and Lauren Matthias, an investigative journalist, as they delve into the psychological facets of unthinkable crimes every week. Their unique perspectives and in-depth analysis offer a fresh take on true crime storytelling. Thank you for your support through sponsorships, subscribing, listening, and becoming a Patreon member at Patreon.com/HiddenTrueCrime Our Sponsors:* Check out Acorns: https://acorns.com/HIDDENTRUECRIME* Check out Acorns: https://acorns.com/HIDDENTRUECRIME* Check out Armoire and use my code HIDDENTRUECRIME for a great deal: https://www.armoire.style* Check out Effecty and use my code HIDDENTRUECRIME for a great deal: https://www.effecty.com* Check out Happy Mammoth and use my code HIDDENTRUECRIME for a great deal: https://happymammoth.comSupport this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/hidden-a-true-crime-podcast1836/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Subject to credit approved, minimum monthly payments required, minimum purchase required. See store for details. Hello, Hidden Gems. We are here together for another live hidden hour with Dr. John Matthias, forensic psychologist. It's good to see you, babe. I just got back into town. What are we going to be talking about tonight? We're going to be talking about Timothy Haslett, who we,

We have named the Blue Barrel Killer. And the reason we've named him that is because, so just to set the stage for a discussion tonight on October 7th of 2022, a victim escaped from Tim Hazlitt's home. She fled. She knocked on a neighbor's door. She was found to be emaciated. She was starved. She was held in a dungeon for well over a month.

And she was tortured. She had a collar around her neck. So she was immobilized in his dungeon, Haslett's dungeon. The police arrested Haslett on that day. They searched the home. And one of the things they found were a series of blue barrels. And these blue barrels were a bit of a mystery because they didn't have anything in them. And it was unclear what they were used for, aside from the fact that the victim later,

made some statements about their purpose. But we, several weeks ago or about a month ago, the probable cause statement was released. And I'm going to read something from the probable cause statement that helps us gain a better understanding of the blue barrels. And the reason why it was released is because Timothy Hazlitt has now been charged officially. Right.

He's been charged with first-degree murder. Yes. And a number of other kidnapping, a number of 10 total felonies. This is page four of the probable cause statement. It says, quote, investigators contacted the reporting parties. So in other words, a group of kayakers found a blue barrel on the river, Missouri River, and investigators contacted the reporting parties who stated they were on a kayak trip

and decided to stop in the area to camp for the night. They located a blue barrel, and we're going to use it for target practice. As they removed the barrel from its location and some logs, they dropped it. The lid came off and a skull came out. One witness used a pair of pliers to turn the skull over to confirm it was a human skull. So this is the first instance where we can tie a blue barrel in Timothy Hassel's home to a human body, the remains of a human body. And hence the name the blue barrel killer.

So tonight we're going to talk about the case of Timothy Haslett. We're going to talk about what this means, how we got here. How did the remains of the human body end up in this blue barrel? And how and why? What was Timothy Haslett doing? What was his psychological makeup, like, to get us here? So that's what we're going to be discussing this evening. A lot of the topics we'll be discussing tonight are difficult.

There's so much. One of the fascinating elements of this case to me is that it involves so much psychopathology in so many ways. You know, you've got issues around gender, you've got issues around race, you've got issues around his experiences in school with bullying. In many ways, Timothy Hazlitt is sort of the prototypical murderer, if there is one,

in terms of checking so many boxes that, and many of the cases we talk about Rex Hewerman, they follow a very similar pattern. It's just, I think, with Timothy Haslett, they're so pronounced. elements of this case are so pronounced in terms of why he committed these murders. So, I mean, there's, and there's a lot we don't know. We just, we happen to be close to a couple of sources that have provided this information that's been really spot on. That's been

completely accurate. And we talked about some of these issues that in the probable glass statement to almost two years ago. In fact, I'll give a little teaser. I asked you, John, about a rumor that Timothy Hazlett was wearing female underwear. And it was rumor from a source that and so we speculated on that what would that mean if indeed this is true but we didn't know this is a quote this is page three of the probable cause in almost the first sentence quote photos of hazlet dressed in female lingerie were located in addition to photos of of tim haslet in women's underwear when he was engaged in some of these behaviors right and so a lot of what we're going to hear too is what one victim has been able to share that

she went through before she saved herself and escaped this homemade dungeon. It's a rough one. And I've been asking John to cover this for quite some time because it's, it's rough. I had to read the probable cause for a crash course. I have so many questions and so many why. Why would someone do this? And yes, Cindy, you are correct. And we're going to have to be careful with our words on YouTube for those that want the unedited version of, of everything that is in the probable cause because we are not going to be able to state everything due to respecting YouTube's rules. I read it and you can hear everything uncensored on our podcast on Spotify or Apple and we recommend everyone subscribing there as well. So let's jump into this issue of cross-dressing, which I can honestly say we I think I think this is I think this is the first time we've ever discussed.

this, aside from some brief remarks on Hazlid in our previous show, this is probably the first time we've discussed this in any depth. So, yes, right. This is a new one. Cross dressing while committing crimes as a newbie on this show. So let's just talk about cross dressing in general as a psychological phenomenon. For the most part, men who wear female clothing, it's completely harmless. It's completely innocuous. A lot of times it can be done to kind of experiment with femininity or maybe like from a Jungian perspective to kind of play some men want to, you know, get in touch with their feminine side. And it's one, it's a, it's a fairly simple, harmless way of doing that. There's a disorder in the DSM referred to, it's a parapheria and it's called transvestic disorder.

And the reason it's a disorder is because it's not the dressing up in female clothes, creates the disorder. It's the dressing up in female clothes that causes distress that creates the problem. So the other thing about a parapheria and transvestic disorder is that you get the female clothing part associated with arousal. So in other words, if you need to wear, in Hazlitt's case, for example, he wore underwear. So if you need to wear underwear to become aroused. Female underwear. Female underwear, right. I'm talking about cross-dressing hair. or female underwear to get aroused, and that's distressing to you.

Then it starts moving over into the terrain of a possible psychological disorder. But the key there is, you know, there's probably plenty of men out there who wear female clothing or underwear, who don't become aroused by it, and they're not distressed by it. In that case, it wouldn't be a disorder. So in terms of explaining the disorder, a lot of times what happens is children or adolescents will find articles of clothing from, say, their mothers, and for whatever reasons, they'll find those pleasurable, and they might become aroused when they're experimentary playing with those clothes.

And so you begin to develop associations between the clothing and arousal. That's kind of B.F. Skinner developed this whole approach to behavior called operant conditioning. So that's kind of a skinnerian approach, this dissociation between the clothing and arousal. And so a lot of children in adolescence, they might experience that initially. But typically over time, that'll dissipate and they won't have the same reaction to the female clothing. So, you know, so it's really kind of a tricky area in terms of considering to be pathological or problematic. The way it becomes problematic is when it, again, like I said, when it becomes distressing for the individual.

And the individual, for example, wants to stop, but can't. and it becomes the primary means through which they're able to experience some type of arousal or gratification. Let's talk about this with Haslett, because with Haslett, we're definitely, yes, there is cross-dressing. I'm not sure if there would be a parapheria or transvestic disorder here because I don't know if he needs to wear women's underwear to experience arousal. I don't know, you know, I don't know if that causes him distress. It seems to me like it may not cause distress. But let's back up a little bit. If we want to understand the importance of the cross-stressing for Hazlitt,

we have to really understand his relationship with his mother. It always goes back to the relationship. It's always going to be mommy issues in here. Or daddy issues, take your pick. And Haslett's case, there's both, by the way. So what we know about Timothy Haslitt's mother, we know that she was a drug addict. We know that typically, and so she lived the life of a drug addict,

meaning that she was constantly looking for drugs. She was trying to find money to pay for drugs, right? Drugs, like many addicts, drugs were often. The addiction was at the center of her life, and finding drugs was a big part of that lifestyle. So one of the offshoots of the fact that his mother was a drug addict was also the fact that she met a lot of men, apparently, that abused her, physically abused her.

We don't know more than that, maybe sexually abused her. maybe sexually abused her. We know that his mother, at the age of 12, his mother essentially sent him to live with other family members. He went to live with his aunt when he was 12 years old, and subsequently his mother passed away from addiction. We also know that he talked very little about his mother. So he rarely acknowledged her. He was very protective of his mother that he not only didn't talk about her, but when the topic came up, he didn't want to talk about. He didn't want to talk about it when he could avoid it, but if he had to, he would defend her in some ways, apparently. And so you have this very complicated relationship, I think. When I think about his relationship

with his mother, you know, it seems to me there was a lot of shame there. Shame around her addiction, shame around the fact that men abused her, shame around the fact that he was neglected, shame around the fact that he probably didn't feel as loved as he should have. I don't think he would acknowledge that, but there was still that issue of shame. And I think in particular, I think that the part that, from my understanding, the part that really bothered Timothy Hazlitt the most was that he saw his mother is weak and he saw his mother is helpless. And he saw his mother's life being out of control. And because of that, I think there was a lot of anger. There was a lot of rage towards his mother.

And I think that watching his mother and her life falling apart and the fact that she couldn't really. contribute to his life or nurture him in any meaningful way. It not only created this anger and this rage, I think, later, but it also created, and the shame I mentioned, but I think it also created this sense of being helpless and the sense of being weak. And so many criminals we talked about kind of land in that area where they, because of childhood neglect or abuse, they have this sense of being helpless. They have the sense of being dependent. They have the sense of being weak. And so what happens with Timothy Hazlitt, and by the way, his father, who leaves him when he's around age five or six, he saw his father's completely weak, too. So he saw his father as being unable to

control his mother. His father was unable to help her with her addictions. His father, according to Tim Hazlitt, was very passive. We know from a source that there's a direct quote, that he often would say of his father that, quote, he had no balls. So he, he too saw his father as this kind of weak version of a male or masculinity. And that's a part of this story too. But the story begins with the mother. And so I think there's very much a sense here in which the cross-dressing is in many ways tied to his mother because he's cross-dressing in a way to mimic his mother.

Wow. He's dressing up in female clothing, I think, as a way to portray. portray her. But he's doing it, and this is, by the way, this takes us a long way from transvestism or transvestic disorder. Because the pathology here, the psychology of this is quite different in the sense that he's simulating his mother so that he can feel strength. Because he's dressing like her when he's committing these crimes. And I think he's doing that because he's trying to purge himself of all those feelings of helplessness and weakness from his childhood that he experienced with his mother. By dressing up in female clothing, he's trying to purge

himself if anything feminine. He's trying to purge himself of any feelings of weakness associated with his mother. He's trying in some ways to recreate his mother as a stronger mother, as a mother who's capable of exerting power and discipline and all the things his mother lacked. And so I think that's why all of these crimes, what's peculiar here is that, All of his crimes, all of his behaviors, his sexual behaviors in the dungeon, occur when he's wearing female clothing. He does not do this without wearing female clothing. And I think that's what makes this really fascinating is the sense that you very rarely in crimes or criminals do you see kind of this attempt to become one of the parents in some ways. He's assuming the role of his mother when he's coming into these crimes because he's trying to transform this feeling of weakness essentially into strength.

And so that's one side of this equation. The other side of this equation is that the victims whom he's harming in many ways also remind him of his mother. So Tim Hazlitt is doing something that almost no criminals do. He's trying to cover both sides. He's trying to act like his mother and he's treating the victims like his mother. It's really peculiar. Oftentimes you'll see criminals that will treat their victims as if they're their weak, helpless mothers. and it becomes a type of projection,

a type of projection where they project all of their hate and anger onto someone else. And oftentimes that'll be like a victim. But in Hazlitt, you see it on both sides. You have this attempt, I think, to really betray his mother when he's wearing female clothing. He's making his mother into someone that he wants her to be. And then he's seen the victims in the same way. That these victims are addicts. These victims have unstable lifestyles like his mother.

These victims are all sex workers. They're all black females. So many, most of them have been alienated from their families. They're disenfranchised. They're in the sense that they take to the streets to make a living because they have no other options. It wouldn't surprise me, by the way. I don't know this. I'm just speculating here.

It wouldn't surprise me to learn that my guess is that his mother may have traveled in the same areas and circles that some of these victims did. to get drugs. It wouldn't surprise me that his mother may have gone to the same places, moved in the same circles, where he finds his victims to get drugs. Right. So that could be an interesting commonality that he saw his mother go to these places. It's a well-known area for this, and it has been for years we've learned where he found his victims. Right. It's a well-known area. And so, you know, by torturing these victims, he's doing, he, There is that element of projection. I think he's projecting onto the victims all this anger and hate and helplessness and weakness he felt from towards his mother. He's doing that with the victims as well. What's interesting here is you kind of, you have a perpetrator that doesn't want to leave any basis uncovered. He wants to really, this is someone who really cannot deal with the feeling of being weak or helpless or ashamed. This is someone who wants to really, really.

urge himself of any difficult emotions, any hard or negative emotions. This is someone who's falling into that role of kind of hyper-masculinity, where anything that has to do with weakness or femininity, he's going to destroy it. So I think the cross-dressing becomes symbolic of not only his mother, but of the sense of helplessness he felt during childhood. There are so many questions. I have so many questions.

We're just trying to process everything you said. So Lolo was asking, so is he ridding his world of mom and recreating a stronger mom through role play? Yeah, it's all in fantasy, of course. I mean, every criminal we talk about, it's all fantasy. Hewerman was fantasy. It's all, all of them create these fantasies about how they want. Most people don't realize how much their personal information is being bought and sold every day. Data brokers are making billions, pulling details about you from public records.

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I mean, he can do that emotionally. Like if he went into therapy, for example, that's one of the goals of therapies to help people understand that you can't change your past, but you can talk about it and you can deal with all the emotions around it. So like another emotion that Tim Hazlitt

probably can't experience a sadness because he would probably associate sadness with helplessness and weakness. And he can't experience that sadness from his childhood probably because that would make him feel weak. And so, yes, in a peculiar way, I think he's trying to master or remaster this part of his childhood that he had no control over. And a big part of that was his mother.

So by kind of simulating this role of his mother, I think he's in fantasy, at least, he's trying to create a mother that was stronger and more protective and that loved him. And I mean, it's a fool's errand. You can't, obviously, you can't do it. I mean, that's the problem here is that the reason why this is so interesting is because this task, that he's trying to perform is an impossible task. His mother's not coming back. He's not going to have another childhood, but what he's trying to overcome are those feelings.

And so I think he thinks, he believes in fantasy that if he can recreate this experience of his mother and becoming more powerful and stronger, that maybe somehow he can have that mother now, he can, in fantasy at least, He can cling to this mother that he never had. He can recreate her.

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And that's that his victim. And let me say this to you. Now, we know of only two victims, T.J. that escaped and Janie Crosdale that was found in a blue barrel. And Elroy asked, were there multiple? We'll get to that in just a minute. But this is what we know of right now, okay, those two, one that survived. And Janie Crosdale. They were black. And we know that Timothy Hazlett, from talking to multiple people, was a racist and that it is suspected that he targeted them for their race, although we haven't been able to prove that it's certainly looking like that.

And so help me out, Timothy Hazel is white. So just that's where I'm going. And there are questions, those that have been following this case, Kim is asking, does this distance him somewhat from what he was doing against his mom?

Other people are asking questions about why that, why? No, in fact, what I would say is it actually makes it more compelling. Because when he's wearing female clothing, if he's occupying that role of mother, so his victims are not, in that sense, the mother, they're the victims. They're the ones who are weak. The fact that his victims were all black females just amplifies the fact that in his mind's eye, that they're outcasts, they're weak, they're help. Like to him, in some ways to him, he's finding the most vulnerable, ostracized members of society in some ways and exploiting them.

I mean, there's a lot of reasons he's doing that. I think one of the most obvious reasons would be that law enforcement is not as interested in that population, in the sense that, you know, that community, and I don't mean just black female sex workers, it's white female sex workers, that sex workers in general, they tend to be pretty transient. A lot of them have drug addictions, right? They move from state to state, that some of them can be involved in human trafficking. They're hard to find. So just in general, you know, their DNA profiles are hard to find.

Just in general, they're not a high priority for law enforcement. And I mean... It's hard to prove that they were missing. They were not reported missing. These women, they move away. They use nicknames. Nobody knows where they went. Yeah, they're really hard to.

In fact, the victim in the blue barrel that they found on the river, it took them a while to figure it out. So, and the reason we don't mention names is because it's redacted. I mean, you just mentioned. Well, the blue barrel isn't. Janie. It's redacted in the problem cause, but that's okay. Well, everybody, Janie, he's charged with, he's charged in her death. I mean, just from pragmatic reasons, he's choosing this population because I'm sure there's a part of them that believes that law enforcement won't care.

They won't, they won't be as invested in a case like this. It's generally going to be true that members of the community who have lower social status are going to be harder to are typically, and fewer. resources are probably going to be lower on the radar that members of the community that have high social status and right that are quite visible in the community. I mean, less likely to get media play, less likely to get the attention of the world, less likely we talked about on a true crime podcast. Right. Let's be honest.

Exactly. Which is one reason I think we are so passionate about this case. Let's talk about it. let's give them a voice. Right. And as Cindy just mentioned, easily dehumanized. Exactly.

I mean, certainly the dehumanization aspect of this case is, is exceptionally important that he's, he, Timothy Haslitz, like almost every criminal we talk about, absolutely dehumanized these victims. Yes.

And what these victims went through, again, head to our Patreon account, patreon.com slash intrue crime. If you want to read verbatim, what these victims went through. Patreon.com slash injure crime. We have it all there.

I just want to clarify because I put it out there. Monty's, I'm curious about the population. You know, the makeup, two victims doesn't necessarily mean future victims would be the same. So let me, I feel like it's only fair to share the evidence that I actually think that they would be the same. You know, while nobody has come out and stated he targeted them because they were black. There is a lot of information and a lot of evidence. And again, I recommend our crash course, which you can find in the description of this video. We go through all that evidence, and you can actually hear it and see it and listen to it.

But he was racist and one newspaper, local newspaper, uncovered multiple, multiple things that Timothy Hazlitt Jr. said on a Facebook, on Facebook and on social media that were repetitive in nature in repeating the idea of possibly even slay. and what he did and what he did is kept them as slaves and put a collar on one woman, which was done with slaves in the United States sometimes, and there was a whip that was found. So I just want to point out that there is a lot of evidence that this could have been race targeted beyond just a vulnerable population. And while we don't know that, we can't state that, for certain, you can look at all the evidence yourself on our crash course. But there is a lot of reasons and then things that TJ, the surviving victim, has stated

as well. And so with that, I do want to talk about this because there is evidence that race was part of why he targeted these victims. And let's add that from one of our sources who's been a remarkably accurate and reliable source. Correct. Told us about the underwear. Our source, right, who revealed a lot of the details

of the probable cause before these facts were known, our sources told us quite explicitly that the last two years, he's made overtly racist comments all the time. The last few years before the crime, leading up to the crimes. Yeah, before October 7th of 2022, that he was making numerous racist statements and that he talked often about a race war that he felt was inevitable.

So it seems likely it's possible that some of his other victims, and let's not forget the fact that the victim who escaped discussed that he had talked about some of the other victims. that he had talked about at least two other victims that he supposedly harmed, murdered. They came from the same area and they fit the same profile. They were both black females. And so it does seem as if we can't, we don't know for sure, but it certainly appears that his victims were all similar

and that race did play an issue. And so I think I think the question now we're all asking with that laid out is why? And, you know, you mentioned his mother, but now we have a difference. There's a difference. The short answer is threat. So if you think about racism from a psychological standpoint, racism often is related to the idea, at least, I mean, there's different theories of this. So this is my psychological take on this.

But the other, in other words, the person who's different from us in terms of skin, gender, sexual orientation, whatever, oftentimes in racism or sexism or person or people that are different, they become projections. They become the container for most of our frightening impulses and fears and fantasies. And so like most human beings, you know, human beings don't like difference. We don't like uncertainty. We don't like the unknown. And so anytime there's a threat, we try to minimize that.

threat. But for most of us, you know, we can, most of us can tolerate more threats than others, and we recognize that some threats are real and some aren't. But here, I think this becomes an easy target for Tim Haslett in terms of seeing the victims as different and in terms of skin color, different, but similar in the sense of to his mother, in the sense of being addicts, having unstable lifestyles. I think one of the things. that probably occurred with his mother, from what I can tell, is that she was involved in numerous relationships. I don't know if any of those involved the exchange of money, but it's not hard to imagine that that occurred. And so this is a particular population that's going to be really

odious to him. He's going to have a particular hatred towards this group. And, you know, the other thing is that if we're talking about race, there's some really fascinating research on this issue in terms of when certain people like Tim Haslett experience a number of failures and their self-esteem feels threatened. Oftentimes, it's very easy to blame a disenfranchised group. It's very easy to resort to prejudice or racism when there's those types of threats. In fact, there's an article here I want to reference this quickly. A series of studies, this was done in the late 90s. So it's not recent, but it's a brilliant piece of research.

Stephen Spencer and Stephen Fine are the authors of this article. It's published in the Journal of Personality and Social Psychology, which is a very well-known psychological journal for respected research. The title is prejudice as self-image maintenance, affirming the self through derogating others. This is from their study, page 40, quote, information that threatens perceiver's sense of self-worth leads to the need to restore a positive self-image.

The studies presented here demonstrate that stereotyping or derogation of a member of a stereotyped group can provide situational opportunities to restore a threatened self-image. Because it is likely that people often will encounter others in situations where it is personally and socially acceptable to evaluate them negatively, stereotyping and prejudice may be common reactions to self-image threat. And I think that's exactly what you have here. Let's get more, a little bit more into Tim Havslett's life. You have all kinds of failures and threats in his life.

You have bullying when he's in high school. You have social ostracism. He's more or less ostracized from any of the popular groups in high school. He washed out of the Navy. failed in the Navy. He had a drug-addicted mother who didn't give him enough attention or love. We talked about that. He had an abusive stepmother. I didn't even mention that. His stepmother was very emotionally abusive. It's not clear if there was physical abuse. There may have been, we're not entirely sure, but there was definitely abuse from his stepmother. I mentioned he saw

his father as weak. And then I think most importantly, more recently, he got a divorce, which he never, you know, he never anticipated. I mean, in many ways he was responsible. I mean, for that divorce, but he was divorced. That was a big failure. Yeah. That was a massive failure for him. After he was divorced, he said to the person we know that

women always let him down. So he, there you go. He blamed women for a lot of his failures. And he lost his job. He was working at the Kansas City Railroad for 14, 15 years. He lost his job when he had a DUI. He was fired. And

it was a massive failure to him because he thought he had job stability. He had a great job. He bright. He was married. Things were going well. That is a really good job to have. Excellent retirement in the area. The railroad is a very good job, stable job to have. And he lost it and it's pretty hard to lose. Right. So I think when you put all of those failures together, my guess is there was probably latent racism going on before. But with that string of failures occurring and those threats to his self-esteem, I think, you know, it was it was very easy for him to start resorting to these racist ideas and beliefs as a way to bolster his own self-esteem. As I just read from it, like the research shows that certain, it's easy to belittle and derogate, derogate, you know, put down certain groups when our self-esteem is threatened, when our self-image is threatened. So for Hazlitt, it seems like this is an easy step to take.

You know, he's had all these failures. He's been blaming his mother for years, obviously. He sees his mother as a major part of this. His divorce just only exacerbates all his hatred towards women. If I had to think about his mother's situations when he was a child, it wouldn't surprise me if his mother was traveling, like I said, traveling kind of in the same cirque areas where he found his victim. So maybe part of it is that he interacted with different ethnic groups in those areas and that he blamed them for creating some of the problems with his mother.

Maybe he blamed them for selling his mother drugs, right? I don't know how much he saw and knew, but I wouldn't be surprised. I think to me, it gets to the issue of threat. He feels extremely threatened by women. He feels extremely threatened by minorities that are different from him than he can't. can't necessarily control. He feels threatened by the fact that he can't maintain any stability in his own life. He can't maintain a career.

Every job he, the source told us that every job he's had, he's fired from because he has problems with authority. He washed out of the Navy because he couldn't deal with authority. And that's when he was much younger. So this is a pattern. given this repeated history of failures, you know, and the problems his mother had, and probably some of his mother's interactions with other racial groups,

you know, the black community, this is all a threat to him. And they're all an easy target. They're all easy to blame for his problems. And so every one of those victims was a, source was a projection of his rage because they were easy to blame, they were easy to target, and he believed that by doing that, by torturing them, that somehow he's going to purge himself of these really unwanted and difficult emotions that he experienced from his childhood

that included weakness, vulnerability, shame, helplessness, fear, sadness, all of it. He didn't know what to do with those. and he had no one to talk to about any of those issues or those problems. And he certainly wasn't he certainly wasn't someone who would have been a candidate for therapy. So. Yeah. And you mentioned torturing. That is exactly what he did. If you read the whole charting documents, that's what we're talking about.

And the torture is, it's frightening. It's, it's just unbelievable. and what he did to his victims. Yeah, no, go ahead. What he did to his victim. But again, it's an expression of all that rage he has towards his mother, towards other ethnic groups, right? It's all coming to a head when he builds that dungeon

and he captures his victims, he finds his victims, he preys on his victims, and he takes them back to the dungeon. In the case of the victim who escaped, she was there for well over a month, being tortured daily multiple times every day. So I think those are probably my main points in terms of examining why he's wearing women's underwear and clothing during his torturous runs and why he's targeting this specific group, I think. So, you know, I mean, I'm probably just scratching the surface still. There's so much here. But for the most part, I think that would be a broad overview. The other really interesting element of this case is the sadistic component. Correct.

The torture and the sadism are, I think, really worth talking about. So in addition to the fact that he cross-stresses and he targets a very vulnerable population, I think that you have this issue here, and we haven't talked about this too much on some of our other shows, but it's clearly evident here where there's this separation between sex and love, that he can't,

this is someone who can't distinguish at all between sex and love, and he can't make a separation between feelings of emotional closeness and sexual arousal. And so I think for him, that becomes really confusing, because this is someone who never really understood love. This is someone because of his childhood because he felt exploited and abused

and kind of neglected that he doesn't really have this capacity to experience loving feelings. So he doesn't know what to do with that. Or he doesn't know if he does have those feelings, he doesn't know how to express them. And so he's looking, he's engaging in these types of torturous sexual behaviors

because to him, that's his really peculiar way of trying to find love. Peculiar to say the least. Right. But right. So he can't distinguish between those two things. Love. Right.

He can't. Right. And so I think having a little bit of a discussion around that later might be interesting. And I think they, the other thing in the probable cause statement that I found fascinating personally was that they found they confiscated his electronic devices as you'd expect on his phone. He had, you ready for this, his phone, he had over 100,000 photos and videos of explicit material. So I've done, by the way, I've done a lot of evaluations, forensic evaluations on sex offenders.

And a fair amount of those involve cases of explicit material. And when you start crossing over, when you get into the thousands, that's a significant amount of that type of material. When you get over 100,000, that's a whole different game. That's a whole different order of pathology. And there's almost an obsessive compulsive type component to that. I had one sex offender that had over 500,000 images and videos of the explicit material, which according to one FBI person I talked to said that would have taken them years to compile. So, I mean, think about the amount of time just to do that is mind-boggling. So this is obviously something that Tim Hazlitt is obsessing over to some degree.

He just can't. And again, this gets back to those childhood issues around his mother. Material was violent, right? Violent. Yes. A lot of it was violent. A lot of it depicted similar themes that he was engaged in in the dungeon. But again, like, I want to put this in perspective.

100,000 photos and videos and images is, and again, I've assessed hundreds of sex offenders. And the number of, you know, 10,000 is a lot. The number I've seen over 100,000, I've had one offender in over 25 years who had more than 100,000 images and videos. And that was an exceptional case. That's a case where I had to reach out to the FBI and some people in the children's, division of the FBI to really put that in perspective. And so this, this is a, this is a very unusual situation. Yeah.

Also, I just want to say to people, it's ongoing, you know, authorities have warned. It's a warning if, if anyone local along the Missouri River finds a blue barrel, contact authorities, this is, this is ongoing. We don't know about other victims, but what we do know is shocking, and there's the fear of others. And TJ, who escaped, did state that he referenced two women who didn't make it. There was a question here, and it's something else that we need to talk about because we've discussed this with Timothy Hazlitt. In fact, we got a complaint from a gem, which, you know, we are open to. criticism and complaints, as most of you know.

So we're not even saying this negatively. Sometimes people say, you, we got a complaint that on our season, on our podcast, we share different interviews that we did with people that knew Timothy Hazlid. And this is what Hidden True Crime does. Sometimes we do this behind the scenes. Sometimes you hear the interviews. And you guys heard this interview. And it was someone saying that they had dated him and that he was great.

and that he was, she actually felt that she didn't deserve him. He was polite. He was clean cut. And then another person explained how he was super clean cut. And then transition to who we see in his mugshot, which is a very burly guy, like a very unkempt. Nothing wrong with burly, but beard. I mean, what am I talking about? It was like, Zach Gallifanakis if he hadn't like showered or shaved in like forever, you know.

Clearly not a clean cut guy in his profile pictures. And it's upsetting to listen to. I understand why because this was at the very beginning of the case where information was coming out and people were saying fond things about them. Like that they think there's more of the story. That's what people are going to say that know somebody. But back to the issue at hand, somebody wrote, and I thought I had. start it. I try to star your question. Go ahead. On that, on that, just quickly on that issue. So it's very possible

that at some point his mental health started to deteriorate rapidly. And it could have been after, who knows when, it could have been after his divorce, after so many failures, who knows. But my guess is there were mental health issues before. Perhaps there were some triggers such as the divorce that accelerated those issues? The pandemic was when things started getting out of hand too, and he started to become more radicalized on some of his strong beliefs. Yeah, that's a good point. But I did find the question.

Can you talk about the transformation his high school friends described and it wasn't just his high school friend. It was also a woman he dated online from handsome and clean cut to dishevelled. What I know is that one of our sources that's been, as I said, it's been completely accurate about everything we've talked about and everything that's come to light told us that the last two years in particular. So you're right. So beginning around the pandemic in 2020 until his arrest in 2022,

the source told us that he was becoming more paranoid. He was engaging in drug use. He was making racist statements frequently. And he talked about a race war. The source also told us, and I'm going to use some of the language that our source used, the source said that over the past two years, so maybe you're right. Maybe the pandemic was a big part of this, that maybe he was online and, you know, getting immersed in certain groups or ideas that were not helpful to him. But the source told us that he had a poor attention span. He was disorganized.

He was impulsive. He was always late for everything. He was never on time for any appointments. was volatile and he was unpredictable. But our source also indicated that that wasn't, many of those qualities were not just the last two years. So when you date someone, obviously you're going to put your best foot forward. You're going to show your best side.

I think it's when you date someone, particularly if it's not for a long amount of time, it's probably easy to hide the more troubling parts of yourself. It's probably easy to do some image management. And, you know, I'm sure Timothy has. like many people was quite capable of doing that, as long as you didn't talk about his mother. That's interesting. That actually made sense to me, as you say that.

He protected his mother as long as he, it wasn't about his mother. Nobody could say anything bad about his mother. And he never talked about her. He pretty much hid everything to do with his mother and repressed anything to do with his mother, all the negative feelings he had. He repressed all of those.

Yeah. Oh, and I want to thank those that have talked to us, even the interviews that you hear on our podcast season on, you know, again, Spotify, Apple, wherever you listen to podcasts. I want to thank them for sharing what they knew and being honest. That's how we understand these people or not understand them, but work to analyze them. Israel Key said in an interrogation that I believe he met his exes or those that, you know, were on him, didn't even know him. It's a great point. We're going to cover Israel Keys sometime soon, right? We think we know somebody. This is not a question. It's actually a comment that I really liked.

And in general, but Penny Lane said, we are afraid of things we don't understand. It was actually when we were talking about race and she posted this and I started because I want to ask you about that because it's true. We are afraid of things that we don't understand or maybe we want to say things that are different. And I just wanted to ask you in general terms, why are we so afraid of things we don't understand? I think just in simple terms that we began living together in tribes. and most of those tribes were similar. So this is an oversimplification, but we gravitate to those people that we think are most like us,

and we are afraid of those who we think are not like us. And so, you know, it's the birds of a feather type thing. So I think it takes some work to be able to tolerate difference, and it takes some work to an education and understanding and reflection, to expand our net so that we're not just among members of groups that look like us, act like us, think like us, right? I think that's a big problem now in this country. But certainly back tens of thousands of years ago,

we were, our survival depended upon essentially being around people just like us. And those were our tribes. And, you know, the phenomenon now we call in-group out-group. that we still, even today, we still prefer our in-group to be exactly like us, and our groups are people that aren't like us. You know, it's pretty simple. So people that threaten our in-group or the group that we normally participate, the groups we normally belong to,

the people that are different and threaten those groups are seen as a potential threat to our well-being and maybe even our survival, to some degree. Because we're always talking about mommy issues, simplifies us and what's the most important thing a young mom can do with their children, mostly sons, to avoid grown men that are angry with them. Yeah, the most important thing. I mean, the most important thing is the most important thing you can do is to listen to your kids and to love them.

I think the most important thing you can do is to see them for who they are. Just acknowledge, try to figure out who they are and they'll tell you who they are. just try to see them and be with them and love them and be present with them, right? I mean, those are all things that Tim Hazlitz's mother never did. She was never around. And when she was around, she was apparently on drugs and incapable of caring for him and seeing him and listening to him and all the kind of basic skills that we might associate with healthy relationships.

Yeah. So a lot of parents will do anything for their kids except to let them be themselves. Oh, it's a quote. This place actually says it's a quote by Banksy, which is fun because one reason we, well, it doesn't matter, but we love Banksy. And it says a lot of mothers will do anything for their children except let them be themselves. Tim Haslett never had that choice. His mother never got to the place where I think it was even an option to let him ever be himself. And so he, without that ability, this is an extreme.

You know, there might be parents that never let their children get to that place that don't become murderers. So this is an extreme, but it certainly didn't help. I want to talk a little bit this idea of sadism because I think if you step back a little bit from this case, the issues around race and gender and cross-dressing, right? Like I think in many ways it's all about objectification and it's all about dehumanization. as almost all the cases we talk about are. But the torture and the sadism is like the perfect example of objectifying someone, of creating distance, of dehumanizing someone.

Tim Haslett doesn't see his victims as human beings. He sees them as objects that he can inflict pain upon. Interesting part of that to me is that the pain he's inflicted on his victims is in many ways a proxy or a substitute for love, for the love he wants, right? The very thing he wants, which is love, which he never had, he doesn't know how to get. So he's trying to get it by inflicting pain

on his victims. It's right, there's this really peculiar transformation going on there. So the thing he desires, you can't risk because that would mean he would be vulnerable. And if he's vulnerable, then he's in someone else's power. And so, but the key here, I think, is that this idea that these are not human beings

in the dungeon. These are objects that he can manipulate and exploit and torture, just like he was in his childhood. And it's easier for him to do that when he resorts to these prejudices and these stereotypes about women and racial issues, right? It's all, they all run together here. And even the explicit material I mentioned earlier, there's an element of that too. Because in that type of material where there were 100,000 images and videos found, there's no tenderness or warmth. Like those pictures are all about violence. And even though they're sexual in nature, there's nothing in there that's really that involves any type of tenderness or warmth towards the right. And so again, these things all run together. And I kind of lump them all under this

issue of objectification or dehumanization because that's where they all meet. Kimberly Fine is asking if you see a correlation between Haslett and John Robinson. I don't know if you know about that case, but it had to do with blue barrels, both in Kansas. And Robinson drew them with employment and stored remains in blue barrels. Yeah, I'm not there. I don't know the case well enough to really, it sounds like there are similarities. We'll certainly look into it now. I want to close with the statement.

The source I've been referencing provided us with a statement, which I think is really important and really telling and that Tim Haslett was known to have made to several people apparently. So I think this statement says a lot. And the statement that Tim Haslett told to people was, quote, have you ever been somewhere they don't want you? let me repeat that. Have you ever been somewhere they don't want you? And I think it's important. I want to think about that statement for a second because that summarizes everything you need to know about Tim Haslett.

He didn't feel wanted. He didn't feel like he belonged anywhere. He didn't feel loved. And again, in a really pathological way, I think that's what he was attempting to do with his victims, was to feel loved in a very, peculiar, odd, pathological way, but he was trying to, he was trying to affect this transformation from vulnerability to strength, essentially, in his dungeon. And on that issue, you know, I'm going to

end with a quote here. I sometimes say that most of the perpetrators, most of the offenders we talk about, they really just want love, right? I mean, it's really simple in a way. I mean, it's the most simple thing and the most difficult thing on the planet. Given the families they come from and given their circumstances, finding love and achieving love and feeling love are in many instances, it seems like, nearly impossible. But that's really what they want. And I just want to end with a thought about that. This is from a book. This is from a book called Thinking About Love, Essays in Contemporary Continental Philosophy. It's edited, it's an edited collection of essays by Diane N's, E. N-N-N-S and Antonio Gal It's interesting because philosophers don't really talk about love very much.

Philosophers talk a lot about everything, but they don't talk about love. And it's peculiar. It's peculiar because I think it's in many ways maybe it's too vague for them to define. But I think it's also something that's so personal that it's hard to really abstract about love. But I'm glad. So the philosophers that do talk about love or think about love is the title of this book, is I try to read as much as I can of those thoughts. And this is one of my,

this is a great quote, which I think kind of summarizes Timothy Haswood very well. The title of this essay in this book is called Love's Limit. It's by Diane N's, who's one of the co-editors of this collection. What destroys the conditions for love is invulnerability. We cannot love without becoming vulnerable to one another, without opening ourselves up to the possibility of being wounded by another.

Without this opening to the other, an abandoning of the self and the surge of love, we are unable to see ourselves through another's eyes. And if we remain blind in such a way, we can either give nor receive love. We remain sovereigns, perpetually on guard, deflecting threats to be sure, but gestures of love and generosity as well. When our capacity to love is threatened, We are presented with what may be the only condition under which we must withdraw love. I'm going to read that last line again because I'm going to end with that.

When our capacity to love is threatened, which is exactly what we've been talking about all night, threat. Threat to our self-image, threat to differences, right, threat to our well-being, our safety, threat to love. When our capacity to love is threatened, we are, presented with what may be the only condition under which we must withdraw love. So in other words, threat is the thing that threatens love the most, that we withdraw love when we feel threatened. And N says, and I love the quote, because her point is, that might be the only condition under which we do withdraw love

in which we are incapable of love. and I think for Timothy Haslett and so many of the perpetrators we talk about they're under threat all the time. There's these perpetual threats. And so it's not surprising, you know, obviously reacting or acting the way Timothy Haslett did is unacceptable and unconscionable. But on the other hand, I think if we're trying to understand it, it's easier to understand that someone like Timothy Haslett, who's feeling threatened all the time is more likely to behave in a pathological manner.

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