Hidden True Crime - Bryan Kohberger's Plea Deal | EVERYTHING You Need To Know

Episode Date: July 1, 2025

Bryan Kohberger—the man accused of murdering four University of Idaho students—just agreed to plead guilty. After months of legal twists, delays, and silence, this bombshell move changes everything. Why now? What does it mean for the victims’ families, the death penalty, and the trial that never was? In this episode, we break down the legal strategy, the emotional fallout, and what justice looks like when a plea replaces a verdict. About Hidden True Crime: What started as a simple conversation at their dinner table became a captivating podcast. Join the dynamic duo of Dr. John Matthias, a criminal psychologist, and Lauren Matthias, an investigative journalist, as they delve into the psychological facets of unthinkable crimes every week. Their unique perspectives and in-depth analysis offer a fresh take on true crime storytelling. Thank you for your support through sponsorships, subscribing, listening, and becoming a Patreon member at ⁠Patreon.com/HiddenTrueCrime⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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guilty. It's an outcome few saw coming and one that can mark a dramatic turning point in this long and painful journey. Just weeks before opening statements are scheduled to begin, Brian has apparently accepted a plea deal in order to get the death penalty taken off the table. He will plead guilty to four counts of murder and one count of burglary and serve the rest of his life in prison. No chance of parole, no rights to an appeal. It's been reported that Brian will have a hearing on Wednesday, June 2nd, to change his plea, but so far no hearing has been confirmed by the Idaho courts and prosecutors have offered no comments citing the gag order still in effect for the case. As you can imagine, many people aren't happy about the state cutting to deal with Brian,

and it's unclear why they would agree to one now. The state has seemed confident that they had enough evidence to find him guilty and have remained adamant about seeking the death penalty. So what has changed? The Gonzalez family has expressed their anger and disappointment as well, and they apparently weren't consulted about the decision. Since the news dropped, the family has issued two statements. The first said, quote, we are beyond furious at the state of Idaho. They have failed us.

Please give us some time. This was very unexpected. We appreciate all of your love and support, end quote. Well, the second statement reveals even more of their raw feelings and emotions on the matter. It reads, quote, The death penalty is merely an illusion in the criminal justice system. When available, it serves as a bargaining tool for the state, and when rarely applied, it's never enforced due to the highly inefficient appellate process.

The notion that someone can plead guilty to a crime and still face years of appellate delays reveals a systematic failure. The Latot County Prosecutor's Office's treatment of our family during this process is something I wouldn't wish on anyone. We question decisions early in the investigation. Why was the mayor commenting on the case? Why was the coroner speaking to families? Why was an officer with less than two years experience leading the investigation?

Why was the University of Idaho involved when they declared it an isolated off-campus incident? Why was the university permitted to write a book about the incident while others were silenced under an overly broad order? As a result, we were branded adversaries, so it was no shock at the LATOC County Prosecutor's Office mishandled the plea deal. They vaguely mentioned a possible plea deal on Friday without seeking our input and presented the plea on Sunday. LaDadeau County should be ashamed of its prosecutor's office. Four wonderful young people lost their lives, yet the victim's family. were treated as opponents from the outset. We weren't even called about the plea we received an email with a letter attached. That's how Lataw County is prosecutor's office treats murder

victims families. Adding insult to injury, they're rushing the plea, giving families just one day to coordinate and appear at the courthouse for the plea on July 2nd. Who do they think they are? After more than two years, this is how it concludes with the secretive deal and a hurried effort to close the case without any input from the victim's families on the pleas deal details. Our family is frustrated right now, and that will subside and we will come together as always and deal with the reality that we face moving forward. Once again, we thank everyone for their thoughts and prayers, end quote. Wow, they did not mince words. And in a TMZ exclusive, Zana Kernodal's family said they are livid over the plea deal. Her aunt Kim, Kim,

Kernodal said, quote, prosecutors floated the idea of a plea deal a few days ago and the family made it clear. No way. They had better not dare go through with it, and quote. And when TMZ spoke to Kim, she was actually on a conference call with prosecutors. She said they told her that the defense approached them with the plea deal and the prosecution went along with it to spare the families the pain of a trial. However, Kim says that's ridiculous. And at least two of the families, hers and the Gonzalez's family wanted Brian to face a jury. Kim also said that prosecutors told her there was enough evidence to secure a guilty verdict, and they never mentioned taking the death penalty off of the table when discussing the plea.

The state is apparently concerned about having the families see gruesome crime scene photos, but Kim said, and I'm going to quote her here, we know the graphics. They were not trying to spare us. It's honestly mind-blowing that Brian would plead guilty in the final hour and after all this time and effort, and perhaps the defense has finally come to terms with the reality that winning the case is unlikely. In capital cases, the defense attorney's primary objective often shifts from securing an acquittal to simply keeping their client alive. Brian's legal team appears to have achieved that much. Still, they've repeatedly claimed that they would prove his innocence, which makes the entire situation all the more astonishing.

Technically, Judge Hippler still has the authority to reject the plea deal. So it's not done yet. Judges have the final say in these matters and can refuse an agreement if they believe it's not in the interest of justice or if they find the proposed sentence too lenient. And Kim Kurnodle said that she wants a judge to delay making a decision so that the families can figure out the next move to fight the plea. We'll have to wait and see what the judge says and whether the victim's family's concerns could influence the outcome. But as things stand now, this could be the final chapter. And if anything changes or the trial does move forward, we can still go over this week's updates, just in case they do become relevant again.

And honestly, I think they are relevant. I don't think this was as unexpected as many of us think. I think that this week's updates might shed light on why the plea deal is coming now. not only that, but I think the developments from this week, again, paint this picture as to why Brian pitched it this way. So last week, Brian's defense team filed a sweeping motion to delay the upcoming trial yet again. Siding an overwhelming mountain of evidence still under review. This is nothing new. Challenges getting key individuals to agree to interviews and the need for a deep dive into Brian's entire life history.

And this information could have proved critical if the trial moved in two. the sentencing phase. In addition, they argued that holding the trial so soon, after a wave of media coverage, including a new book and TV show, could have made it difficult to seat an impartial jury. The defense also alluded to the possibility of alternate suspects, raising the question of whether Judge Hippler would entertain a third-party defense. And while delays might serve the defense's strategy, the prosecution, the victim's families, and the public are growing increasingly restless for answers and justice. And several newly released documents revealed Judge Hipler's rulings that determined whether the trial would proceed as scheduled or be pushed back once again. And that's

not all. There was also a key hearing that played out in a Pennsylvania courtroom today, in Pennsylvania to determine whether several reluctant witnesses from Bryant's past would be ordered to testify in trial. And so stay with this. There is a lot to unpack beyond the breaking news of this possible plea deal on the table. And spoiler alert, despite their best efforts and 40-page motion, Judge Hippler found no justified reason for an ongoing continuance meeting, meaning there will be no delay. The defense never pitched any ideas on when they would have preferred the trial to begin, and it seems they just wanted the delay indefinitely. In the ruling, Hitler said, quote, the court finds a continuance is not warranted as the defendant.

defendant has not made a showing that there is good cause to continue the trial or that his substantial rights will be prejudiced by proceeding to trial as scheduled. End quote. So even though we know his answer, let's go over some of the reasons why Hippler decided against a delay. First off, Hitler addressed each of the defense's arguments, the first being that they haven't had enough time to go over all of the evidence. Well, Hitler didn't mince words in his response, he wrote, Are you ready for this? Quote, the court found defendants' complaints of being unable to meaningfully review discovery entirely unconvincing, pointing out that counsel struggled to articulate in any meaningful way what evidence, let alone relevant evidence,

counsel had been unable to review over the past two plus years in why efforts to facilitate discovery review were not made long ago through this court, end quote. So basically saying, you've had plenty of time, and if you haven't, you should have asked, for help a long time ago, not now. Now, don't worry. I am not going to read the entire 20-page ruling, but I do want to point out some of Hippler's comments that are just too good to leave out. Another reason the judge gave was that the defense has failed to specify what evidence they need to review further. He wrote, quote, perhaps even more problematic and more telling is the utter failure of defense counsel now or at any time to specify not only what needs to be reviewed, but importantly, when that review would be complete and defendant ready for trial. Instead,

defendant seeks an unbounded continuance with no apparent plan to complete the review of unspecified evidence that counsel claims it has yet to review. This is not sufficient to warrant a continuance, end quote. This is only the fourth page, and I am. I'm sure the defense could tell by now that things were not looking good for them. The next argument, Judge Hippler addressed was that the defense believes that it is their duty to conduct an exhaustive and comprehensive investigation of Brian's life history. They've discussed this. We've discussed this when there's a death penalty on the table, an exhaustive life history is in play.

However, Judge Hippler believes that they are overseeding their obligation and that their actual investigation only needs to be reasonable. The Idaho and U.S. Supreme Court does not require the defense to investigate a defendant's entire life in order to present constitutionally sufficient mitigating evidence. Hippler wrote, quote, this court is not willing to continue the trial indefinitely to allow the defense team to embark on a fishing expedition, pulling at every conceivable thread in the defendant's family tapestry, end quote. Next, Hitler addressed the pre-trial publicity and how the defense believes this would affect their ability to seat an impartial jury. He wrote, quote, with the measures the court has already put in place to protect the defendant

against pretrial media coverage and the court's carefully crafted jury selection process, there is no reason to think that an impartial jury cannot be selected through a searching and robust Wadir, end quote. And Hibler believes that regardless of the media coverage through Wadir, they would be able to find an impartial jury. I believe they would be able to do. There will always be people who don't watch the news, don't watch true crime documentaries, or care about murder cases, like all of us.

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These and eligibility requirements may apply to certain checking features of the cash account. While it's obvious that this case has garnered sensationalized media coverage, Hepler doesn't believe that this would just fade away with time. In reality, the longer it takes for trial, the more speculative media coverage there will be. And in his words, quote, the longer the public is made to sit and wait for the first. facts to come out of trial, the more time there is for inflammatory, speculative stories, movies, and books to circulate, and more time for prior ones to be rebroadcast, purchase, viewed, and consumed by the public, end quote.

I have to agree with the judge there. The last reason the defense gave for a continuance was to allow time for the court to investigate the source of leaked information, dun-d-d-dun, dateline, as well as other shows and information. They believe that the leaker may have been someone bound by the the court's gag order, such as members of the prosecution team or law enforcement. Well, Hippler disagreed with this as well. He said, quote, such assumptions are not grounds for a continuance particularly given that there is no guarantee if and when they will be confirmed or debunked. This trial cannot be held hostage indefinitely to the outcome of the investigation,

particularly given the very significant chance the leaker may never be discovered, end quote. Judge Hibbler concluded the document by saying that the defendant's motion is denied. And yes, he wrote denied in literal big capital letters. He all capped, denied. Even though there won't be a continuance, Hitler did make an amended scheduling order pushing jury selection and the trial back by just one week. Opening statements, so they were set for August 18th rather than August 11th. So push back one week.

Now, there might not be a trial, of course. But with all of that, let's get into Hebbler's ruling on whether Brian's team would have been able to present a third party defense. In other words, present the idea that there were other perpetrators that some other guy did it. Someone else could be responsible for this, which is a defense strategy and a good one. And they have been saying that they were going to happen for a long time. I think this is the most interesting part of what happened this week because what happened is the defense laid out as many as four alternate perpetrators. It seems as though they were dealt, though, yet another heavy blow as Judge Hippler blocked this move as well. And not many people even know this.

Like this was blocked. Like in the last document, the judge gave some hard words in his analysis on the ruling. So let me just see what he has to say. here. In regards to the alternate perpetrators, the defense was given the opportunity to show proof of connection to the crime, such as facts or circumstances, which clearly point to someone besides Brian as the guilty party. So nexus, if you remember the Delphi case, was there a nexus or a connection to bring in odinism? Same thing here. However, Judge Hippler, describe the defense's third party evidence as entirely irrelevant. He wrote, quote,

nothing links these individuals to the homicides or otherwise gives rise to a reasonable inference that they committed the crime. Indeed, it would take nothing short of rank speculation by the jury to make such a finding, end quote, rank speculation. I mean, the judge is laying it down. three of the defense's potential perpetrators supposedly had a social connection to one or more of the victims and interacted with them at a social event in the hours before the murders. They lived again within walking distance of the crime scene and were familiar with the layout of the victim's home from prior social events. And if you remember, the entire fraternity is in walking distance, very close walking distance to the victim's home. But Judge Hipler wrote that while this evidence could suggest an opportunity to commit the crime, there was no compelling evidence that any of these people had a motive to kill the victims or even physically harm them.

He also added that dozens of other people in the victim's social circle lived close to the residence and knew the layout of the home as well. And that doesn't mean they should be considered as alternate perpetrators. And again, he's right. again, all of the fraternities and sororities, very close to the home, a lot of people lived close to the crime scene, this home. Judge Hippler stated that there is no evidence connecting any of these people to the crime scene, and they have each cooperated with law enforcement by providing DNA samples, fingerprints, and allowing searches as requested. Most importantly, lab testing has excluded their DNA from samples taken from the crime scene and the victims. The fourth alternate perpetrator reportedly didn't even know the victims. He had a quote-unquote passing connection to one of them while noticing her shopping at a store around five weeks before the murders took place.

So five weeks, more than a month, before the murders took place. This person was said to have briefly followed her out of the store while considering approaching her to talk. However, he turned away before ever speaking to her. Nerves got the best of him. The event was captured on surveillance camera, and he subsequently cooperated with law enforcement by providing his phone number and even a DNA sample. Like other alternative perpetrators, lab reports excluded his DNA from the samples taken from the crime scene and the victim.

So no DNA connection here. And there is no evidence connecting him to the crime scene at all. Just imagine seeing someone attractive at the grocery store, feeling like you had a connection, thinking about asking for their phone number, or saying hi, losing your nerve, and then getting accused of murdering her and all of her friends a few weeks later. The fact the defense even brought this person up

is a potential suspect, in my opinion, just shows they are grasping at straws, clearly. Hepler explained that it's not enough for I defend it to simply suggest without any real proof that someone else might have committed a crime. even if the evidence has a tiny bit of value, this kind of guessing and speculation could seriously confuse a jury. He wrote, quote, it would invite the jury to blame unrepresented persons for a heinous crime, whether there is not any competent evidence connecting them to the crime.

Finally, it would do nothing more than waste the precious time of the jury and the court in what is already a scheduled three-month trial, end quote. However, the defense would have been able to cross-examine law enforcement about their investigation, including investigating and ruling out other leads and suspects. They just couldn't bring up any specific individual as a potential alternate perpetrator. It's honestly really disturbing to think that if Judge Hippler had allowed alternate perpetrators into trial, the defense would have smeared the names of innocent people all while Brian knew that he was possibly giving. guilty or, you know, he's considering to plead guilty now and was contemplating a pleadio. So there we go. Both of the defenses, new motions were definitively shut down this week. But also, let's get into some of the other new twists that have recently popped up,

including the DoorDash driver and seven other witnesses out of Pennsylvania. So not Idaho, Pennsylvania, where Brian Koper is from. of those, at least five had been requested to testify for the defense. They each had a chance to argue before a Pennsylvania judge about why they shouldn't have to travel before they could be forced to testify. And last week, we briefly discussed the alleged DoorDash driver, who was referred to as MM in court documents, the 43-year-old woman whose real name is Molly. She was pulled over on September 4, 2024 last year. The stop was initially for an expired registration and then Molly was arrested for allegedly driving under the influence of pain prescription medication. Well, on the police body cam that has recently come out, Molly explained that she was stressed about a lot of things, including being a witness in the Idaho for trial.

It's kind of hard to hear, but she says, I saw Brian. I parked right next to him. In addition to this clip, Molly reportedly repeated that she would be testifying against Brian four separate times to three different officers. In one of these statements, she said, quote, I'm supposed to testify against Brian next year, the guy that killed all the freaking girls over in Moscow, end quote. The officer then said, quote, well, this won't change any of that, end quote. And Molly said, quote, yeah, well, I got a DUI on my record. That's going to look like crap, end quote. So obviously Molly knew that having a DUI may affect her credibility in testifying against Brian. Other experts have weighed in on her statements, pointing out that it is interesting that Molly actually knows Brian's name.

If she told police, like, think about it, if she told police that she saw someone at the scene when making her door dash delivery, it's likely they showed her a photo of Brian and asked if he was that person that she saw. She didn't say she saw someone or the suspect. She said she saw Brian. As we know, one of the surviving roommates, Dylan Mortensen, described seeing a man clad in black clothing a mask with bushy eyebrows. Those bushy eyebrows, many people say point to Brian, but that may not have been enough detail to exactly call Dylan and eyewitness, according to some people, to others, you know, you decide. if she eyebrows or not. However, if Molly saw the car and the killer before he put on a mask

and if she feels confident enough to say that it was definitely Brian, well, that would have been huge for the prosecution, huge. It wasn't just one fleeting comment made during her arrest. She repeated it. She knows his name.

We know the defense would have tried to question her credibility because of the DUI and the possible medication use. So that would absolutely happen. But if she was clear, headed enough that night to drive around, find the right houses, and make her deliveries, which she did, then it's fair to say she was clearheaded enough to know what she saw.

So on to the hearing today that took place in Stroudsburg, Pennsylvania, in front of common pleas judge Arthur Zulik. The hearing was called to address rare interstate subpoenas filed by the defense, which require approval by a Pennsylvania judge. So basically, would these witnesses in Pennsylvania be forced to travel over 2,000 miles to Idaho for trial? This is happening in Pennsylvania today. And since Pennsylvania does not allow cameras in the courtroom, we did have to rely on what some reporters who were present said took place. The hearing was reportedly packed with spectators and turned out to be pretty tense. Three witnesses, Ralph Vecchio, Brandon, andriola, and Jesse Harris, all representing themselves objected to being called as

witnesses for trial. They feel that they've already given all of the information they can to both the state and the defense and shouldn't be made to travel all the way to Boise, Idaho. That is very far. Before I switched to wealth front, my APY was probably zero point one. Like it was a joke. I was literally getting pennies. Once I switched, chiching. With a wealthfront cash account, earn up to 4.2% APY on your cash. The high APY with Wellfront was a clear winner. There are no petty fees.

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One by one, each witness in that Pennsylvania courtroom voiced their objections. Jesse Harris runs a boxing gym where Brian told his former employers, that he trained daily. The defense was requesting his presence for two days of the trial. Harris told the judge that he has already given statements about his contact with Brian as a teenager and doesn't know how much more useful information he could share. He said, quote, I knew Brian as a 15 to 16 year old. We trained thousands of kids, end quote. He also wanted to clarify misconceptions that some media outlets have insinuated, that Brian was trained to be some super skilled fighter. He said,

Brian never threw a punch of anyone. He wasn't there to box. He was there like a lot of kids to work out, to build confidence, and to lose weight, end quote. Another reason he wants to be excused from traveling to Idaho is because his wife has health issues that may intensify in the upcoming months. Ultimately, Judge Zulik said that he was approving the subpoena, meaning Harris was ordered to testify in the trial. However, he would have reassessed the situation if he was. his wife's illness changed. Similarly, Brandon Andriola, who attended high school with Brian, is worried that due to the media coverage of the case, he could actually lose his job

because of all the quote unquote hoopla. He brought up the fact that some of Brian's family members have since lost their job since his arrest. That is sad to hear and is upset that podcasters have included photos of his wedding and their coverage of the case. Brandon said, quote, reputation is everything. I do not wish to have this attention. It's my belief that the media attention will only pick up if I'm brought out to Idaho, end quote. He also mentioned that he and his wife have a newborn baby and asked if he is required to testify that it be via video. While Judge Zulik said he did sympathize with him, he ordered Brandon to comply with the subpoena and appear at Brian's trial. Whether he could appear via video would have to be up to Judge Hibb.

in Idaho. William Seerfoss is a jail guard in Monroe County where Brian was briefly housed before his extradition to Idaho. And Seerfoss told the judge that Brian's defense team asked him to hand over a prison record for that period and thought this meant he would no longer need to attend proceedings because he handed it over. He gave them what he had. Judge Zulik said they would check all the records and he would rule on Seer Foss's subpoena in another hearing on July 7th. And the most confused witness at the hearing was Ralph Vaheca, the third, who runs a used car dealership called Colonial Auto. This is where Brian's parents bought that infamous now, 2015 Hyundai Alontera in 2019. And even though the white Alontera is a key

component of the case, Biko argued that he has never met Brian and seemed confused as to why he was even called. And then there was actually some back and forth and about the fact that maybe, yeah, the summons was actually meant for his father, 88-year-old Ralph, the second. So the judge decided to postpone that matter until July 7th. And then we had Anthony Soma, who was believed to be a former classmate of Brian and reportedly graduated from the Monroe Career and Technical Institute where Brian once attended. Anthony told the judge that he did not contest the subpoena and was quickly dismissed. Two other witnesses, Ann Parram, who was an advisor at Brian's high school, and a mystery witness named Maggie Sanders, has also been summoned to appear at today's hearing.

However, last week, Anne reached an agreement to testify in the trial so she didn't have to appear today. Meanwhile, Maggie Sanders rescheduled her hearing for July 7. Another witness named Michelle Bollger is a professor at DeSales University. She reportedly taught Brian while he was working on his master's agree in criminal justice and was initially summoned as a witness. However, her name has since been removed from the witness list and has been replaced with Brandon Andriola. At the end of the hearing, Judge Zulik revealed that he has also received requests for other Pennsylvania residents to be called as witnesses for the prosecution. Since Judge Hippler has sealed the witness lists, it's not clear who those people are or why they were being

called to testify in Idaho. So the defense seemed determined to line up witnesses who could shed light on Brian's past, aiming to build a fuller picture of his character. However, it's evident that some of those people were understandably nervous about being thrust into the spotlight. I don't blame them and hesitant to be part of such a high profile case. Their reluctance only added, though, if you think about it to the tension surrounding the trial, you have reluctant witnesses that the defense is trying to call. This isn't simply about presenting a few facts about Brian, it's about a defense weaving a broader narrative, hoping to convince the jury that he was more than just the man accused of murder. But compelling unwilling witnesses to take the stand is a risky

strategy that could have easily backfired. As the defense has previously said, trials are a battle of narratives, character and perception. Each witness, each detail has the power to shape how the jury sees the case. These witnesses weren't just names on a list. They're real people grappling with very real, fair fears about how public testimony could impact the reputations, families, careers, and personal lives. The judge made it clear. The pursuit of justice outweighs

the potential personal costs. But perhaps with a new plea deal, these witnesses won't have to testify at all. What a shocking change of direction this day took after the courtroom in Pennsylvania happened. In addition to the hearing,

more witnesses who would have undoubtedly been called during the trial, did an interview today with ABC to promote the new Amazon Prime DocuSeries. One night in Idaho, the college murders. We heard from Hunter Johnson and his girlfriend, Emily, who were close friends with the roommates. Emily was particularly close to Ziana and said actually that they were attached at the hip the moment they met. The morning of November 13, 2022, Dylan Mortensen called Emily and Hunter concerned and asked them to come over. When they arrived, another friend named Josie, Louder, was also there. but upon entering the house, they could immediately tell something was very wrong.

Hunter was ahead of the girls and opened the door. He immediately turned around and pushed the girls out so they could not see what he just saw. He told them to call 911, but he didn't want to tell them the full extent of the horrors behind that door that he had just witnessed. Take a listen to this. As soon as I sat in the house, I was like, oh, something is so not right. Like you could feel it almost. Hunter was ahead of me and Emily and immediately was pushed out. And Hunter was like, get out, somebody called 911.

You hear Hunter on the 911 call telling the girls there was an unconscious person, protecting them from the graphic details. Is she breathing? No. How did you remain so calm in that moment? Truly in my heart, I believe God was with me that day. And he gave me the strength to get through that day. As authorities entered the home, the friends say they were told to sit outside, waiting for hours with little information. We watched the ambulance come and we watched them immediately leave.

So I think that that was the hard part for sure. That second you realize there's no one to be saved. All right. So that explains the confusion on the 911 call and why the girls initially said that there was an unconscious person. and Hunter was trying to protect them. In the interview, Emily and Hunter also described the attacks they have received from internet sleuths, accusing and blaming them, along with Dylan and Bethany, of being involved in the murders of their roommates.

Even if there was conviction or now a plea deal, they don't feel as though justice can ever truly be served because nothing can ever bring back their friends. They hope that one day, the Idaho Four can be seen as who they were as people and not the horrible thing that happened to them. So I think with all of these new updates, no continuance, no alternate perpetrators, reluctant witnesses out of Pennsylvania, and the mountain of evidence that keeps building against Brian Koberger, the defense, and Brian may have just decided to throw in the towel. However, when a killer accepts a plea deal, it often robs the victims families of a chance for catharsis. A public trial can offer answers, a narrative, and a confrontation

with the truth. The courtroom also becomes a place where the public finds closure by hearing what happened and why. And if Brian gets to just plead guilty, he may choose to take his secrets to the grave, never having to actually answer for the horrors he committed that day. It is heart-wrenching, especially hearing the statements from Zana's family and Kaylee's family. But that wraps up the latest developments in the Idaho four case. And we will, as always, continue to follow it closely and to bring you the most update information. While this potential plea deal could change the entire course of this case, every step still carries weight in the pursuit of the truth and in honoring the memories of Kaylee, Madison, Zana.

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