Hidden True Crime - Cameras, Courtrooms & CrimeCon | A Conversation With Susan Hendricks

Episode Date: September 21, 2025

Susan Hendricks joins Lauren for a post CrimeCon Recap talking about all of the CrimeCon adventures, plus more about both Lauren and Susan's careers, their most memorable interviews and more! Sponsors: Jones Road Beauty: Use code HIDDEN at http://jonesroadbeauty.com to get a Free Cool Gloss with your first purchase! Mint Mobile: Shop plans at Mintmobile.com/HIDDEN About Hidden True Crime What started as a simple conversation at their dinner table became a captivating podcast. Join the dynamic duo of Dr. John Matthias, a criminal psychologist, and Lauren Matthias, an investigative journalist, as they delve into the psychological facets of unthinkable crimes every week. Their unique perspectives and in-depth analysis offer a fresh take on true crime storytelling. Thank you for your support through sponsorships, subscribing, listening, and becoming a Patreon member at⁠ Patreon.com/HiddenTrueCrime⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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true crime. People said we want more. And Susan, Susan is not just an incredible broadcaster, CNN, reporter and anchor, HLN anchor, a presenter, a podcaster herself. She has the YouTube channel headline crime with Susan Hendricks. She's also my dear friend. And people wanted sort of a behind the scenes at CrimeCon. And who better to do this with than the person I was hanging out with every day? Susan Hendricks, we're already giggling. There are definitely some behind-the-scenes stories going on. And yeah, and also I just want to say, Susan, you also did an incredible job at CrimeCon. You presented awards.

You did multiple panels with both the Delphi prosecutor, Nick McLean, and Detective Holman, as well as a panel with the victims of Delphi, the Patty family, Anna, Abby and Libby's families. And I just want to say you've been such an advocate for the surviving victims in Delphi, Indiana. And you also wrote the book down the hill. What haven't you done? And I just want to say, though, that before we get into maybe some more lighthearted stories, I just want to thank you for the hard work you did. And a sincere thank you to your advocacy and your panels that you did an incredible job.

And yeah, I was honored to be there as well as at the Clue Award sitting with the families as they received the Crime Fighter Award, presented to them by the one and only John Walsh. It was a really touching moment to be there at that dinner and at that award ceremony. So, yeah. Thanks, Lauren. Thanks so much. It was a whirlwind kind of you look back and you think, oh, my gosh, there's so much going on. And it's so fast. And so I've learned through the years to kind of slow down and be in the moment, not to take everything in in my own moment.

Because if I don't feel prepared, then I feel kind of frazzled. Because, you know, we're used to talking to the camera. At least that's my training, either being live or a camera. And really, you're in the room when you're in a studio with like an intern and scripts. And you're making jokes. You do play music. I used to fill in for Robin Mead a lot. I had a great morning show.

And it was kind of her take. play music in between. So it was a lot of fun, but it's really you and what you're comfortable in front of. So a lot of audience always makes me nervous. But I learned through the years at CrimeCon, especially, it's so dark and the lights are so bright that when you walk out on stage, you really don't see anybody but the front row. And when it was Nick McLean and Jerry Holman, it was the family, so I know well. So I saw Amanda. So I'd look there, wave, and then I kind of pretended I was alone. They say pretend people are in their underwear. That never works. But I pretended I was alone, but I pretended I was alone. In my room, it was, I was writing on kind of cards that I just did Nancy Grace the show show. I have notes. Not for you. I could chat with you forever with no notes.

But kind of. You just finished with Nancy. We're honored. You're on any way time for Hidden through crime too. From Nancy Grace to Hidden. To Hidden. This is where I feel most comfortable with the Hidden gems. And so it was, I was, once I was prepared, but Jerry Holman called my.

I'm like, where are you? You should be down here. And he laughed. But I was just preparing. So then once I'm on stage, you know that. Once you're prepared and being in news, broadcast news, then you feel like, okay, I can have a conversation. And we met the night before with Nick and Jerry. We had dinner.

You were there. Yes. But Nick's so funny. I learned he's very type A. I didn't know him that well. I saw what a great job I believe he did during the trial. But he's very type A. So he's like, are we going to go through the slides?

But that helped. It was preparation. and then I thought he did great. He did good, great. That was incredible. So well done, really. And I think it was so good for the audience to be able to hear from them in person and to hear. I watched your interview.

Sorry to interrupt. You did a great job with Jerry Holman and Nick. So you've interviewed them both. I hadn't interviewed Nick. So I knew kind of he said you can ask me anything. So I knew that. But I don't have, I've known Jerry Holman for a while. So, but I thought Nick did great. He did say he was a little apprehensive. He did he had never been to

CrimeCon and if you just hear the name, you don't know really what it's going to be like. But I thought he was he was good. He's like, this is surreal. And he always gets the negative. I do want to point that out. He told me he had a file of like some things are kind of weird in that file he said, but some he could consider threats. So that's what's all encompassing for him. So this was very different for him to feel kind of the positivity from the crap. That's yeah. And I am so grateful that he was able to see that and as well as again, Abby and Libby's families. And I was so nice, I was able to spend time with Anna. Abby's mother and hear a little bit more from her. I know that she's been a little bit more quiet. And she's an

incredible woman and was an incredible mother. And it's heartbreaking what these families have reached out to her, I think eight months ago to say, hey, if you want to tell me to go shove it, you don't want to be there at CrimeCon. That's okay, but we'd love to have you there. And she had been to the one in Nashville in 2018 with Jerry Holman, so she hadn't been back. And I've learned, and you know this too, Lauren, more than most, that different family members mourn differently. It's very different. And we saw that in the Coburgher case with the Gonzalez family, very face forward wanting to fight when Ethan Chapin's mom is more of, okay, I don't need to see his face. It won't bring my son back.

So everybody's different. So with Anna, it's been very different. But I'm so glad that she was there. And I think she was too. She was happy that she decided to go. She was apprehensive. Then she said, okay, I'm here. Yeah.

Yeah. And you're right. Every family, every victim grieves differently. And just to allow that process for each family, whatever it's that they need. So did you see that with Lori Valo in covering the many trials? Absolutely. Well, that's another great example of a case that has multiple different families and victims. And each family processed and grieved differently.

And yeah, the Woodcock's were, we want to talk. We want to share. Whereas Tammy DeBell's family, more so was saying, hey, I think we're going to lean back and allow investigators to take it over. whereas Tammy Dable's aunt Vicky has said, you know what, I will be a spokesperson on behalf of Tammy. And so each family sort of, again, grieves the way they need to grieve and copes the way they need to cope in tragedy. And I think that one thing I love about you, you're my friend, but also someone that is a part of seeing what victims go through, survivors, victims, however they want to be labeled. I also respect whatever label they want to allow them to feel what they feel and just be where they need to be when they need to be there and to give them that space to process and to help them through it too.

I think most of your viewers are familiar with your excellent coverage of the Delphi trial. But early on, Mike kind of took on that leadership role. I think they're clearly thrown into something they never think. will happen to them. And I was saying it during CrimeCon that, you know how we're kind of linked through marriage or through relationships that we have through life? Well, through tragedy, those families,

Abby and Libby's are always linked. And Mike, this was March 2018. So just a month after the murders of Abby and Libby, he stood up to the podium. And he thanked Abby's family. He thanked Anna and he said they gave him this kind of statement that he read and said, They don't want to talk now.

They respect our family for wanting to talk. So I'll take the role if you want to talk to them. They don't want to talk right now. Come to me. So I think that Mike kind of had that leadership role. And he still kind of does. He still, I always know because that was the second panel I did. I had him the furthest from me because I always know that whatever I ask him, that it's going, I kind of know what he's going to say or somewhat of what he's going to say.

So I wanted Anna closest to me and then Mike down there that I could kind of yell across. But he did take that role of that action type of guy. And you saw Lauren in court every single day. He was taking notes, notes after notes. And think about it. Your granddaughter that you lived with, that you were raising with her mom, but that you were raising. And he said he would walk by the stairs every day and look at her picture and say good morning to her. And to see him and kind of that kind of stoic guy,

nice but stoic the heart wrenching days in court and him just taking note after note after note but they were he was there every day yeah you really he he was and and again i just i love being able to hear more from anna too on that panel so thank you for that thank you for and thank you to anna i guess i should say for sherry i was listening in it and i just i'm so grateful that they won that award It was well deserved and I was an honor to be there during that moment. Her dad, Anna's dad and Abby's grandfather is just the sweetest person. We follow each other on Facebook and he lives in Michigan where Anna was raised. And in my book, I mentioned kind of the close bond that Abby had with him.

And she would go to Michigan for a couple weeks every summer and they would ride horses and watch Andy Griffith. And he was just, obviously they're all heartbroken and never. expected this but that relationship was very special and so Cliff is his name so I was asking Anna about him but you know it the and it was mentioned in court and it's so true the generational trauma yeah that this person caused by that one day that one moment and you know who's I think is unique in their kind of unity in the way they they deal with the tragedy I think are the pettos so Gabby's stepdad and dad and mom and stepmom

They are all united. And that's not just a front. You know that. We saw them again. They are legitimately united. Yeah, the four of them, completely united. It's incredible. And the four of them, Gabby's four parents started.

And they're close. And they're close. And they were all there together. It was nice to hang out with them. And one thing I want to say about CrimeCon. And this is what I wrote on my Instagram and Facebook when I posted photos that we took there, was I didn't know it could be both healing and. fun and I and I feel like it it was healing but we're also able to get together as people who

cover something very tragic and as the victims who have gone through the unfathomable and also laugh and enjoy one another and talk and have a good time and you know it's it's odd that that's the case but you know it in that sense it was even more healing for me I just want to say that and it was very fun with you and with everyone. You too. This always stood out to me. So it was my first crime-on. It was in New Orleans. It was 2019. And I remember, I got to know the family's well at that point, Mike and Becky especially at that particular time. Tara, I met at that time. So we're eating dinner together. It was in the hotel. You know how everything kind of, it's in different cities every year. And so we were just sitting at kind of a bar restaurant. And a couple of people I worked with. but HLN and CNN anchors and journalists came over when, hey, Susan, and saw the family and kind of froze and walked away, not to be mean at all. Very nice people, friends of mine, they didn't really know what to say.

And so it always stood out to me, and Kevin Balfe, who started CrimeCon with his brother of Red Soapentures, said, you know what, Susan, they just want to be normal. Because people don't know what to say. So the fun, that's where the fun comes in, I think. They're still who they were. There's a time before this tragedy happens, and there's a time after. after, but they don't lose. Like, hey, one of a mozzarella stick or Joe Petito's hilarious, naturally hilarious.

You could tell he always was. And I think that's healing for him to be himself, like, to say funny things. And so it's, I don't think they want everyone around them to be somber, if you're following me. Like, yeah, the murders of Abby and Libby, horrific, but they formed friendships and bonds that they want it to be okay. And Becky said that she always kind of felt guilty that she was doing. things and Libby wasn't there and Kelsey said that too. Then she started to think of things Libby would want me to have fun, would want me to ride a scooter that I never rode, would want us to, you know, go in the ocean when it's freezing. So I think they had to shift to kind of have it be okay to have fun.

That's a perfect example. And that's what CrimeCon does too. A lot of victims and survivors attend CrimeCon and you're saying it is okay to have fun. You don't have to feel guilty. Let's enjoy one another for the weekend. And we certainly did, you know. Like I said, thank you for introducing us to the Petitos and the Schmidt's family. They were wonderful. So many that, you know. Yeah, it was fun. I have some funny moments. Go ahead. Yeah. Let's hear. Let's hear. I'll go with potatoes. I'll go ahead. We even attended the, you're on the board of the Gabby Petito Foundation. And we attended the dinner together in New York. And that was an incredible annual event that we want to be able to help with at Hidden Chew Crime again and again.

So, yeah, it was enjoyable to unite once again this time in Denver. They love you. Joe's like, Lauren, you know, Grayson, hugging you guys. So they love you. It's a bond that it's, and I say this all the time, I'm even getting sick of hearing from myself. but how much what kind of an atmosphere, unique atmosphere it creates for the families to heal, to be with people who truly understand for journalists. So I see people like I saw Brian Enten, you know, and Vinny Politan. I've known Vinny for years. I just really kind of met Brian,

but you see people that you know and you're saying, oh my gosh, if you have that in common, like the coverage of Casey Anthony we did together every single day, Jody Arias. And he's a wonderful person, Denny. So you kind of see people, right, that you haven't seen in a while. And then you're right, it has a way of doing that. Then there's meet and greets. There's so many things that you can pick and choose kind of panels and meet and greets. And I was there with Jerry Holman and with Nick McLeeland. And Nick is saying, this is a little weird. He wasn't used to it. Not weird in a bad way, but weird to get, so people would come up. They pay a lot of money for these badges. You could be that platinum or gold.

meet the families and mostly women were there, but some men. And they went up and said, great job during the trial. And I think it meant a lot to them. And I could see Jerry Holman kind of tearing up. So there's that. There's so many things going on, so many facets at once. Yeah. So the behind the scenes, though, we saw your panels. I'm trying to think of some of the stories we had to. There were, there, there, there was some good times in the evening. And Grayson pointed out that there was one night where she said, Lauren, I didn't know you could do that. And we went to bed at 3 a.m.

So we had, we had, Joe Petito, we keep going back to him because he's the funny one. And he called me, what are you doing? Get down here. Lauren's down here. I'm like, I have a paddle tomorrow. That's all right. I said, no, I have to. It was like me in college.

I have to study. Goodbye. I was. I know. He was like, where's Susan? I'm like, call her. Here's my phone. He's like, get down here.

Yeah. What are you doing? I'm like, tomorrow night. I have a panel in the morning. I'm nervous. So that was fun. They're always fun. And I saw Nicole, Gabby's mom the next morning.

She's like, oh my gosh. So it is that weird thing that you walk down the hall and you see like a John Walsh. And his son, Callahan Walsh. So it's interesting who you see there. Yes. Also, I want to say it was really fun to see. you know, you and I walked around together. Neither of us had a booth.

I don't think we like commitment either of us. We just want to be able to walk where we want to walk, right? And greet people. And it was so fun to be able to see people say hello to you. And it was so fun to be. We couldn't get far. Everyone was stopping Lauren. We couldn't get far.

It was really like you're walking at the time of like pretty woman with Julia Roberts. So everybody loves Lauren. So it was fun. But you could see how many people are just love what you do. Okay, let's be honest. Makeup can feel like such a hassle. Half the time it looks heavy, cakey, or like I'm wearing a mask, and I just don't have the patience for a 10-step routine.

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Well, and Susan, I remember going into a panel with you about victim impact statements and learning about Madison McGee. She hosts the ice cold case podcast talking about the murder of her father, J.C. or John McGee. I was so moved by what she spoke. She said she didn't have an opportunity to get a victim in peck statement because there's never been an arrest. There's never been a conviction. That is what she covers on her podcast. And to hear her words was so profound for me. I was wiping a few tears away, trying to, you know, hide my face. And that was incredible. to hear. That was also the panel, right, where Jason Landry's parents or father also spoke. We learned a little bit more about his disappearance. December 13th, 2020, was it? Or 2021, where Jason Landry disappeared. Yeah. And they're still looking for him. Right. And I remember he said, look, I'm a pastor and a lawyer. So if I talk too long, that's why. And he just said they have no kind of right now they've come to terms with that they don't believe he was still a lot but

his car was crashed and they never found him and because COVID was going on he said he was out there alone looking for his son and it was oh my gosh heart wrenching to hear and we went or I went because I knew Josh who was on the panel with me that's Libby's cousin was going to read his victim in back statement and he did he did and it was powerful to hear so it was a different perspective to be in that room and I remember her saying look, my dad, this was Madison. My dad was shot and her family told her that he died of a heart attack, so she didn't even know. And then she's very open and honest by saying it's hurt her financially because she's been obsessed with Salvinness, obsessed, and it's taken over her life.

And that financially it's hurt her relationships, like she'll form a relationship and it's become all encompassing. And, you know, I don't blame her, but it was really powerful. So the hidden gems should look into her case because it's really, it's still not solved. And it was really kind of not investigated at all. And she said, look, and I'm paraphrasing, it's because I wasn't from the right side of the tracks that it was just dismissed. It was called a misdemeanor murder. I remember that term. That no one really cares.

She said, I did. And I did. The entire case file was 30 pages, as she said, when she said, and she finally got it. They didn't, you know, they didn't even investigate. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah.

Those are some of the panels that you can go in, like Cheryl McCollum, who I love. She hosted a panel. There's so many. She is so funny. I did not know how funny. It's hilarious. Every time I saw her, I just started giggling. And then she was with her sister.

And they are just like the moment they're both together. Charlene. They're the best. They could open for a comedy act. I swear. They're hilarious. They could. I couldn't stop laughing.

Every time I saw them, I would just get this grin. Like, you guys are hilarious. She's so southern and sweet and something out of her mouth. It's just so hilarious. What? Oh, my gosh. I know. Yeah.

So I'm kind of behind the scene story. Kind of funny. So I'm behind stage about to go out with Jerry Holman, prosecutor, Nick McLean. So we're back there. We have about 10 minutes. And Kevin comes up. But first, I get a text from Dave Vito, who testified. in court during the death I trial.

So he texted me, hey, Jerry told me to text you. There's an empty table next to murder sheet, kind of in the creator's row or what they call it. Can I have this table? And I said, yeah, take it. I have zero authority, zero to say take. I go take it. It's yours. You're like, go for it.

And the funny story is Jerry Holman. He asked Jerry. So I went, I showed Becky. I said, look. because was she backstage or the yes and I said look what I just did I don't have authority here comes Kevin she goes tell Kevin what you did I go I gave this table a day no one's there he goes yeah Tom he could have it text me the name and he could have it because you know you have to kind of be invited to be at a table and he said what was funny Susan is Jerry Holman's like absolutely take it and he's like well I think we need to contact someone who has more authority ask Susan I have zero authority I'm like take it it's yours it's your table you're like you just you just you just exude authority. And then like take it. Yeah.

Yeah. Are you sure? Yeah. And then I want to give a shout out to Kelly McLeer. Worked so hard and all of that. She'll look at me. I've known her for years ago. What did you do?

What did you give to? I'm like, sorry. But that was a funny story to think. Oh, absolutely. Take it. She was fun to me. I went with you and Grayson. You had to sign some autographs.

You had to sign some programs in the back. And you're with Vinny and Stephanie Hart. And Carol and Mike King was back there. And y'all were signing all of these autographs and it was so fun to meet Kelly. And yeah, I saw that you guys, you know, you're like, yep, gave table away. No, it was actually before you gave the table away. But I love that. You're an advocate for people, even if it means just taking some authority.

You get that table. That table is yours. And it was funny to see Dave Vito. You remember him on the stand, right? Yes, I do. And wasn't easy for him. To see them starting their own podcast, the detectives podcast. David Steve and yeah, they were, they are from Indiana, and they actually said they started for the same reason we started.

They said that we wanted to be able to do an ethical podcast. They've both been long time investigators. And that was really neat to see. Glad they had a table. Thanks to Susan. It's really their naturals, I swear, because it's just them telling stories from their perspective, which we don't often get. You remember in local news, we both were in it, you get a statement from a PIO, public information officer. Well, at 300 hours or whatever, it's like you don't really get to hear kind of what they think and what they go through, PTSD. I was talk. I was with them a lot.

I mean, I heard great stories and it's funny to see them starstruck with Vinny the next day. We had no idea. We'd be talking to Vinny Politan at 1.30 in the morning because there was kind of a gathering local area. There was. It was a fun place to be. Oh, that's so cool. So they were Starstruck by Vinny.

That's awesome. Yeah. and they love PrimeCon now. It's just that kind of place. So if Hidden Gems who haven't been, they should go. Well, it's going to be in Vegas. Yeah, May, it's going to be in Vegas. So I hope you're coming.

Are you coming? You'll be there. Absolutely, 100%. Next thing you know, it's Joe Petito. Where are you guys? I'm gambling. We're like, no. Come back.

I know. I don't know if there'll be like this main area to gather like there was this year at Denver because it's Vegas. but it should be fun. And we want to have, yeah, we want to have actually a little gathering

for our community, the Hidden Gem, so I hope you'll be there. Come in a night early, Susan, come in for Thursday night. I absolutely will. That hotel was beautiful,

wasn't it? The Gaylord? Oh, my goodness. Yeah, it was like its own little village and city you didn't want to leave. You know, I still don't know Denver really well

because there was no reason to leave the Gaylord. You know, I was like, I'm good. Here forever. I'll just make a home here. It's kind of all encompassing. It was beautiful.

And to be able to sit and have lunch, right? We were able to go in and just sit on a couch and eat and a lot of eating. I'll be honest. It was delicious meals. We also actually went out. We finally decided to leave campus, as you said. That's what we talked about. Let's leave and jump in a couple of Uber's with the patties.

That was an interesting Uber ride, though, on the way home. I got a little nervous. Yeah, Mike the leader again, he got, which was like a nice of him. Yeah, Libby's grandfather. Two Ubers, because there were 14 of us, like three different tables, I think. And so he got the Ubers and he said to the guys like, listen, will you drive us home too? Because there's 14 of us and I'll just pay you X amount. And they can do that and they agreed.

But then they were trying to like switch it and take advantage of them and saying like, no, well, you have to pay me for all the rides I could have taken. And we weren't that long at dinner. We really weren't. No. So my New Jersey came out in me, though. like, you can't take advantage of this fan. It was like chaos. I probably shouldn't have interfered.

But then we went on her merry way. Mike's like, okay, I'm over this. Let's go swing by here and get lottery tickets because it was a billion dollars. And Nick McLean said, I'm going to buy my own. Because if we all win, there's, I did stories on this on HLN, a deep dive into lottery. If you all play and you don't have anything signed, then Nick could maybe get nothing. It's so funny. I think that's why.

But he bought his own and we're all there kind of. It was surreal and fun. I think I saw won my lottery ticket. Yeah, we stopped. It's true. Your New Jersey come out. I've seen your New Jersey come out before. I was still safe with Susan because she's got her New Jersey in her.

She's beautiful and petite and blonde, but wait until her New Jersey comes out. And I'm like, oh, man. But then we pulled over and we just took a moment to breathe. Then we all went and bought. So I should leave campus. I was like, let's go back. Let's go back to the Gaylord. And I'm looking for mine.

I actually think I need to check it. I need to make sure. sure that I didn't win. I might be that lottery winner. Don't give any to Nick McLean. I'm kidding. I might be that lottery winner, you know, that they're still looking for. I have it over here. So you just reminded me. You know, maybe they're saying, where is? Where is she? Where is she? Yeah, that was when we had a moment with the Uber driver. That was a little nerve wracking. We didn't know if we were going to make it back. You were like getting him in line with your New Jersey. And I was like, you know what? Here's 20 bucks. Let's just go. Yeah, get me a lottery ticket too.

Yeah, we were fighting, but we're like, okay, and then I tried to be nice. I said, I wasn't mean, but I said, nice try. And then I'm like, so have you been driving Uber along trying to like be nice? And he goes, yes. Do you like it here in Denver? No. Oh. And then what I think it was the moment when you kind of, you didn't even say it.

It wasn't even a threat. You like sort of implied like, you know, I can tell Uber. And he was like, whatever you need, whatever you need. I got you. Yeah, I threatened that. And then it was then take the money. his way with it. It was chaos. And I'm going, what's happening? What is happening? Get us back to the gay lord. It's like there's no place like home. There's no place to let go. So then we never left.

He was trying to take more money. And then the moment you're like, I can let Uber know. He was like, free ride, free ride. And you're like, no, like just be fair. Just be normal. What is happening? This is Denver. Isn't everyone supposed to be nice? The air is cleaners, I guess. Yes. Yes. Yes, elevation, but the air is fresh. Right. This is how nice people are back at the Gaylord, which is like Annie M. This is how nice here. I land, meet these two wonderful women, and we all share a cab together.

And they were so nice. And I saw them throughout the weekend. So don't you feel like there's some like camaraderie of like, I don't know, the people who go are really cool. Everyone was so nice. I agree. Everyone was so nice. I joked.

I'm like, what's in the vent here? because everyone's super nice. But if you leave campus and get in an Uber, look out. It's bad out there. You risk a lot. Yeah. No, everyone was so nice. And it was so wonderful.

What else do we do? Has your husband been at all? He has to go to Vegas, right? Who? John? Yeah, he'll be there. That's what I'm saying. Come in a day earlier because I think we want to throw a little gathering Thursday night.

You know, to be determined, we need some party planners, which a few hidden gems have It's in May, right? It's in May. And so we'll be there and you'll be there and it'll be so fun. And yes, John will be there. I hope that John will be able to speak. We've never, we've never, people say, why aren't you speaking or doing a panel? We've never, we've never actually applied because our whole goal in going to CrimeCon

is to meet our hidden gems and to just sort of. You have a lot to discuss. No, you have to do a panel. You met Kevin. I think you should have be excellent. So I think the two of you would be. a huge draw. I would definitely be in the front row with a pass. You know what's funny. You keep you cut in an al-a-low, but it's not you guys. I was wondering when I was on nasty grave,

oh no, because I'm in a hotel. I've been here since CrimeCon because our house is being renovated and it's you have to get a certificate of occupancy. It's been a nightmare. But my son thinks it's camping. He loves it. My teenage daughter is miserable. It's like Chevy Chase vacation, like in that station wagon is in the hotel room. I was just going to ask you. Tell us about why you're in a hotel. Tell us about why you're in hotel and that's why. So you don't want to be there, but there you are. You've been living there since CrimeCon. So you, you, you're probably wishing you were just back at the Gaylord then. You might as well be at the Gaylord. But you're, you're, uh, you're so you're not out covering some trial or anything. And that's not why you're in a

hotel. You're there with the fam. My son's nine and he's like, I think of my lower back hurts a little. I think he hears his dad, Joe say that. So he's like, it's funny. We've been here that long. He's still having fun, but it's kind of worn off. So it's three days I'll be out, which is good. Congratulations. He's an old soul. My lower back hurts after sleeping. I'm like, what? You heard someone say that. But we like a grocery shop. Is that a little ape on the, on the nightstand too? I saw. Oh, yes. We got that when we first got here at a toy store, which feels like a year ago after crime con. And there's an indoor pool, which burns your retina when you walk in the hotel. But I'm grateful. I'm lucky we're here. The four of us sharing one

bathroom with a 15-year-old daughter. It's funny. So your son's lower back is hurting, but how's the 15-year-old daughter sharing a bathroom? How's she handling things? Like, Jack, you have to get out now. It's just really funny. It's like textbook, but they have like a snack area downstairs, so Jack loves it. He's on like his fifth bag of starburst. He loves it. And Emory's more than mom did him. Like, Jack, your teeth are going to rot out. And I'm like, oh, my gosh, what are we getting out? But then you think back, like, these are the memories I'll remember, like being this close with them because I have some friends whose kids are going off to college. Like you and I both have a son similar age. And it does go by fast. And you're like, oh my gosh. But with daughters, you know how

it is, a teenage girl. I was the same way. You don't really want to be in a hotel. And you don't, I didn't really say much. I wasn't chatty a lot. She's not, I'm like, how's everything? Fine. Good. Yeah. What? Oh, is that what? And I'm like, are you TikToking? And I'm mortifying because that's not what you say. TikTok. Everything I say is like, what? And then to bother, I'm like, do you want to TikTok? She's like, stop.

Is your son into the same lingo that my son's into? Everyone's bra. Then he's like saying, I don't know. How does this lingo fly, by the way, between elementary schools? Because it's not like they're on social media, but they are all, they're talking Riz, yeah, but they're talking. will tell me he's like no it's not giyah it's yeah yeah and then i'm gonna wait i'm writing it down in my notes i'm gonna say that make them both cringe you not and then i'll even say and then i'll

like go google it to find out what it means i'm like do you know what that means and he goes like like yeah and i'm like dude you're eight and they've got their own lingo and it's like across the yes well think about zenites of my generation school how does every elementary school have the same Lingo. I mean, I don't even know. I guess they're all watching. Like we didn't have anything and we were all like coming home when the streetlights went on and doing some saying similar things. And I remember my mom. So we're officially old, I think, because we're like, what is that lingo coming out of her mouth? But it, it bothers my daughter when I even attempt. So if I say that, I can't wait. I should record her face, but she'll be

curious. Yeah, at least, you know, at least my son just giggles at it. And, you know, know. Wait, what did he say again? It's not what? It's not Giat. Because I'll say, you know what Giat means and go look it up. I think it means big butt. And they said, like, nice try. Like, yeah, or cool or wait. Well, they're using it in a different term, but that's why it's confusing. They'll say, well, it's evolved to mean sort of this. And then they'll use it in place of got, but it's Giat. Like, and they, it's essentially means big butt. And so then. I love it.

But they don't use it for that term, but they all know what it means. And it's funny. And then, but then he'll say it's not giat, mom. It's gya. Yeah. All right. I'm going to say it's a nice. Like one and a half syllables, in other words.

And I was saying two syllables. And then and then Riz, you know, and then John walks around saying, I got Riz again. Charisma. It's charisma, but it's Riz. And so, you know. I'm so not cool anymore. I was back in the day. You've got Riz. You are full of Riz. You have got Riz. You've got Riz. We both got Riz.

Yeah. We're terrible at this. I don't, but it's funny. You're right that it's just kind of an unspoken language that like spreads around the country. Yeah. Yeah. I guess yeah, they all watch the same YouTube shows or Netflix. And is your son watching the demon hunter movie, the K-pop demon hunter? Yeah, K-pop definitely. Wait, I think. Because that's a hit at our house, and before you leave that hotel, you better watch that as a family. The K-pop Superman Hunter is a good one. So my son's been eating McDonald's and Starburst.

I know I'm going to Mom Health. Sounds like my son's diet. But this was in McDonald's thing. Is this K-pop one of the guys? Well, that's a pop-mart toy. Is that one of them? It might be. That might be.

I'm so not into, but my daughter loves, of course, Taylor Swift. She went to a concert last year. Yeah, who doesn't love Taylor? I'm a Swift, I love Taylor. I have a quick CNN story. At the CNN Center in Atlanta, when I would do cut-ins for Anderson, there were concerts that would get out from Mercedes-Benz Stadium, and I remember years and years ago.

Taylor Swift was, of course, huge, but it wasn't this tour. It was like maybe 10 years ago, but there were a lot of young girls, really young girls and their dads, I noticed. So I think she like transcends, like everybody, every generation. My husband took my daughter and four of her friends and he said he loved all the songs. Like it's just you can't, in my opinion, not love her and her music. Dr. John is a hard sell. But, but I think it is a bit of rebellion and that's all it is.

You know, he's just like he's always a hard sell. That's who John is. Like he's just like, I don't know. I don't know. I'll skip it. Right, right. I don't like concerts now. Does that mean I'm old?

I don't like concerts. We're an Imagine Dragons family right now. My son loves Imagine Dragons. Everything is Imagine Dragons. I take that back. I like concerts, but it's just the big ones. Like I was like, and I think we had an extra ticket because one of the girls couldn't go. But I was like, no.

Not that I don't want to see television. It's just a whole thing. It was a whole, you know. Yeah. Nice. And so what? Oh, one of the other. of my favorite interviews. I interviewed Gene Simmons from Kiss, the best interview I've ever done

because of who he is. Never drank or done any drugs. Had the ashes of his mother in his pocket because she had recently passed away. We're both Hungarian. I know how to do a Hungarian and a nursery rhyme from my Nush Mama. But anyway, I digress. The night before he said, come to a Kiss concert. He didn't tell me that, the producer. I didn't know him. And so I was like, well, should I go? Okay, I'll go. And it was awesome. And the crowd clearly, I'm not saying anything that people don't know. But talk, there was a little boy, like our son's age, but kiss makeup on. Like talk about spanning through generations. And that was awesome. So I guess I like some concerts. There you go. Yeah. No, I know. I know. I went to Ed Shearren with my niece and sister-in-law.

But it was so, it was so fun. But loud, right? Yeah. That's when I'm like, oh. Like, it was so fun. It was like, you know, I even listened to Ed Shearne more now because I'm like, What a talented musician, but just loud. I was just like, okay. I'm old. You're like, we have Riz, but not really where the headphone. Yeah, I've got like half Riz right now. Ed Shear and has Riz.

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Wait, I want to ask you, what was your best interview, would you say, or best in terms of the one you, I don't know, you probably have so many to choose from that you remember stands out to you. Yeah, you know what's so funny is I was about to ask you what you're very first. favorite interview was. And then I thought, I don't know if I would even know if she asked me. So maybe I won't. So let me think about it. Give me, give me a second. Um, there's the more meaningful interviews. I'm sure you agree with this. There's the more meaningful interviews that you'll never forget because they're overwhelming and touching and actually sometimes heartbreaking. And then there are the interviews where they're just kind of fun and exciting because it's a celebrity. And you're like, that's so fun. I'm meeting you. do you know what I mean so so those are two separate uh spectrums but I uh you know I remember

being starstruck when I interviewed Gina Davis uh she's umma Louise I love her Delma Louise league of their own and she's she's incredible and I love what she's doing now with her nonprofit to uh make sure that females are represented in the media more as well as minorities and, you know, have better representation in the media. And then I remember interviewing Randy Jackson as well. That was a fun one. Just very nice. Made me laugh. I think that we took a picture together and I just remember I'm just doing one of my laughs. I think he was just so funny. You know what else is funny too? This is an enjoyable thing. So when I decided to get into the news business, well, I decided to get into it.

I was in college. Obviously, that's what I graduated in and I was determined. But life took a different turn after college. Some things in my family happened. I go talk about that on Mormon stories. Guys, go listen. And if you know, you know. But so I couldn't start my broadcasting career right when I graduated. Some things took a turn, you know, plot twist, as we say. And so by the time I was actually ready to jump back in, I was older than most. I was 20. years old. And when I went to a small town to jump into the business, because that's what you have to do, right, go to a small town to start. And so I drove three hours to the nearest small town and said, here I am. And they were pretty much like, get in line. Every other graduate from BYU also wants

this job. And they're a lot younger already than me. And they're beautiful and they're blonde. And, you know, so I thought, okay, what do I do? And I had to, I decided to go to L.A. to a reporting workshop because I just had this gap between college and starting a career. Did you do that too? In L.A. Yes. In L.A. Yeah. And so just to make a new audition tape to sort of freshen up. Where?

Did you go to UCLA? No. I was a private coach. And this is what's so funny is this was before Parks and Rec. But did you watch Parks and Recreation on? My husband loves it, but I haven't. So, so my reporting coach, this is pre Parks and Rec, but later on, I was like, you know, way, and we became really close.

It's Per Papley on Parks and Rec. And he was the reporter on Parks and Rec. And he was my reporting coach. And we had a great time together for three days. But, yeah. Mine was old. Mine was like 65 and kind of, what was his name, Arthur Joseph. But I remember I did the same thing you did, which is funny.

That is so funny. Because you couldn't make a tape if you didn't have a job and he can't get a job if you don't make a tape. So then you have to hire people like tell you, here's a standup and this is what you do. It's so funny that you did the same thing. You kind of try to figure it out. Yeah, exactly. You have to kind of figure it out. So yeah, my reporting coach was Jay Jackson, who happened to play perp happily on Parks and Rec.

And he spent three full days with me. And he actually genuinely helped me. He sort of taught me, you know, you learn how to put a story together every day. you're putting a two minute, three minute, four minute story together. And he sort of said, look, I'm going to give you the shortcut and you've got to write before you do the interviews. You've got to hone in on, you know, riding before you get the interviews done. So you kind of know what you're looking for in the interviews because you don't always have the time to interview someone for an hour and half. And he gave me some good skills.

And then, of course, I have to just start driving up to this small town every week to Job Shadow until they finally said, fine. We'll give you the job. You're hired. Perpapley help. Jay Jackson, thank you. Perp happily was my guy. So yeah, that's so funny. You did the same thing. So yeah, and then, uh, and then, what city did you, oh, in where did you get your first job on the year? It was Pocatello, Idaho, East Idaho. So people might understand now why sort of, we cover a lot of these Idaho cases. I've, I've reported all over Utah and all over Idaho. So Salt Lake City. And then and then East Idaho, which is a region, East Idaho, Idaho Falls, Rexburg, Pocatello. That was my first.

What market is that? Because people were big on markets back then. Yeah, it was in like, I think it was like 150, 160. 180, yeah. Yeah, but you were fancy. You were fancy. You got to cover all the methamphetamine stories because you were. It was 180, but it was at least like there were palm trees.

Right. Right. Yeah, that was not me. I was actually out in negative degree weather, getting pneumonia, you know, so there were no palm trees where I was. I think with broadcasting, I've always said it's a little bit like Hotel California. It's really hard to get into, right? It takes some effort to get in, but once you're in, you can never leave. You are, you are in it forever.

That's a good analogy. You could try to leave, but you know. never will ever be a great analogy the movie could be a shot at the gay lord right you're not getting out uh so so just make sure that uh you know if you work really hard to get in just know it's there's no exit there's no exit so it's even harder to leave you exited you exited doing financial crime that everybody loves so yeah and here i am talking about it though and doing the same thing but you're right you're right so and i was on with viny yesterday on court tv we were talking about Emmanuel Harrow, with on the Tira.

So, yeah, still reporting, right? Once a reporter, always a reporter. Speaking of, Vinny, he, I think, yeah, you were there. You just talked about the day that we saw Cheryl and everyone, and he just said he was talking to you about an excellent live you did. And he just said that gone are the days of like the suit, you know, the buttoned up suit out there kind of like we talked about before, we're not making a mistake and like acting robotic.

And so you were discussing that guy that would just kind of go to the scene. Ahmed. Good with the cops. Yeah. Yeah. Ahmed Bioso. I was on with him yesterday with Vinny. And that's actually,

you were praising him. It was great. And we were praising Ahmed. Vinny and I were talking about Ahmed saying like this is, this is it, man. He has his gold chains. He has his blinged out hat. He has a blinged out microphone.

That's not even real. It's fake. and he goes to fires that and he is reporting locally for everyone in his area and they are tuning into him more than local news and he is showing up a fires boy and look at those fire hose it's like they're urinating on the fire check it out it's like and people are watching him people and then he said that that like and that's something a message to everyone that it's a good thing that kind of things have shifted so you don't have to go to a small market and and be so selected by the news director. So you could do it too. If you just are yourself or unique,

or you find something that you love, it could be reporting on anything. It doesn't have to be a breaking news story to talk about, let's say, I don't know, my son collects baseball cards. If that's your passion and you love it, you could talk about it. It seems like from what you were describing with this guy and then watch on court TV and what Vinny was saying, that he just has a passion and people can see that. They want to watch him. Ahmed has an incredible redemption story. And yes, if people, what Susan just said, if you feel like you have something to give, Ahmed is the perfect example of that.

He spent 23 years behind bars. And all he could watch was the news. Probably watch news, Susan. He talked about watching CNN. That's a captain of audience. He was watching Susan Hendricks on CNN, and he thought to himself, you know what? I can do this and I need to make a life for myself.

And I could be this person. And he said he studied and he honed in and he watched what the reporters did. And he said, I can do this. And he got out at a second. chance in life and has just been a reporter. He's battling cancer now. He fainted on the scene while looking for Emmanuel Haro. So, so yeah, it's a different world now where if people feel like they have something to give, they can they can give that. So, yeah, yeah, I, it is exciting. But yeah, I reported locally all over Utah and Idaho. And you know where I was too, the people don't

realize. And I was able to talk to Mike King about this. Because Mike King was in law enforcement and did a lot in Hilldale and Colorado City. For those that don't know what that is, you probably don't. Susan, that's Warren Jeff's land, FLDS. And I was the correspondent there for Salt Lake City for a time as well. Yeah. So we were able to talk about that. But I have dear friends there still that are in Colorado City, Hilldale.

It's a town that has changed a lot. But it's wonderful, I think. So let's go back to like what you asked for my most fun interviews. You know, the celebrities are fun, right? But the unforgettable interviews are people that change the way I think. And for example, getting to know women that were FLDS who became my friends, that changed me. You know, people that teach you about the world that you didn't expect or change a stereotype you have in your mind or people who went through a trauma. and came out on the other side, even Ahmed Bioso talking to him on my channel.

Those have been some of the most profound interviews for me and what I hope to bring to hidden true crime as well. And you do that. You do that. And it's not easy to interview someone. I think if you truly connect, it's a great interview. You do that, make it seem easy. It's really not. That is one of your skills. But I agree with, I remember one year it was Yardley Love. She was murdered University of UVA, Virginia, lacrosse player, her boyfriend, murderer was jealous, was drinking all day, that her mom, it's the Love Foundation. So I interviewed the mom, but she was kind of talking to me. She had been, obviously, this happened, I believe, 15, 16 years ago. So she was there. And with Stacey Chapin, I'm taking you back to CrimeCon, this is a couple years ago, was on that same panel. So the panel was

about, like, what do you do when the worst day of your life happens? And Yardley's mom was saying, like she got a call in the middle of the night and you think, oh, car accident for your kids. And so being able to see Yardley's mom speak to Ethan Chapin's mom and help and really connect. And I will say, this is what I love about crime con too. It helps you because you see these people and you say if they can get through that and I have this problem, if this is going on in my life, then you feel like, so they end up helping you work. You think, okay, this is the worst thing that ever happened to them. You find strength in that.

You look at them and say, oh my gosh, how can, and I remember calling Yardley's mom to say, would you like to come to crime, con, and pound, and pound. She talked to me for an hour and a half. I was in a parking lot, about to go get lunch, and I talked to her, was tearing up about some guy I dated when I was 16 who was a jerk and seeing patterns and how that's what they do. They go from school to school. And my niece, Hadley, she's a freshman in college now at Holy Cross, field hockey. Shout out.

No, but she, so she saw the Love Foundation movie about relationships in high school and like what to look for, the warning signs. We don't learn that. We don't learn that. Right. So it's what she's done and kind of how she helps Stacey through healing. But that's, I think, you're right when you kind of learn something that you didn't know and you get strength through that. You're like, oh my gosh, I feel like a better person leaving this interview than before. Right.

Exactly. And pointing that out, I want to also say there was. I want to say thank you to Joe Petito because he, you know, he was. We love him with all of us. And at one point, he said, Lauren, let's go outside for a little bit. You know, the meeting area was in and out, right? Where everyone sort of gathered. He's like, Lauren, let's go out outside the fire for a little bit.

And we sat and talked. And I think there were a couple other people, but that came out later. But he said, I want to hear your story. And he said, tell me. Oh, that's what I love about Joe. He goes, tell me what it was about Gabby. You keep telling me that Gabby touched you. I want to hear.

why. And I was able to tell him and you know my story and I know your story and you know, you and I both know why Gabby's story touched us. But I was able to tell him and he listened. And these victims, survivors, these people whose families have been changed forever. And I want to, you know, bring out, you know, Gabby's four parents, they sit there and they listen and they're talking to people to try to understand more because of what happened to. their daughter and starting the Gabby Petito Foundation to help other women because he said that. He said so many women and men have come to us and said, your daughter's story was mine. And that is why they wanted to help.

And a lot of these victims do I think what helped me at CrimeCon too was also seeing what I can do as a podcaster or in this space now that I sort of have overwhelmed with the platform that I've been given and you two and and seeing how we can help and how the victims do want their stories told for the right reasons for the right reasons and um it's and just listening it's healing it's healing and so um not i met the show i know you know that because i was in the parking lot of cnn hl and it's clear as day and i was covering delphi and i was overwhelmed i was kind of burnt out but you can compartmentalized so i'm walking to my car And he, because the assignment desk said, this is Joe Padua.

Number call him. If you get him, great. See if you could interview him. That was it. He's like, hey, Susan is Joe. And I went, oh, because I didn't expect the call of that from him. And I go, I'm just so sorry about Gabby. I start crying because I was going through a bad divorce.

And I was crying to him. It was mortifying because you don't want to. I mean, come on. It's not about me. His daughter, right? Gabby was murdered. So he just said, no, Susan. It's all right.

You're not the first. It's okay. And I'm like, oh, my gosh. So exactly to your point, Lauren, that like he has that personality. The whole family does. They walk the walk. They really do this. They know that Gabby got a lot of attention.

They literally are trying to change different laws in each state to have it. So if you're watching or your daughter or son is missing, you'll get that attention. But he wants to hear your story. And he said that to me that other journalists have come up and said, have cried to him. And he's like, well, you should tell it. And some people can or some people can't. So, oh my gosh, that is something that I wish everyone could experience because he really now truly understands. Like everything, even though if you think your story is minimal, if you went through something, it's not minimal.

It's not because you went through that and it's prevented you from doing certain things. It's a traumatic incident in your life. And so it's healing, I feel, whether he wanted to hear my story or not, it was helpful. Yeah. Yeah. And in helping other, they know that Gabby got a lot of attention and see their efforts in trying to get other, other victims attention has also been really touching to see. You know, you reached out to us to say, hey, the foundation is hoping that this case gets more attention and, you know, we try to cover it. Lauren steps up every time.

I swear you do. So thank you. Well, survivors of crime have just been incredible. And I think that that is what crime con is all about. I think that summarizes it. It's let's take what happened to us. You know, this is the survivors and the victims of crime and make the world better. And as you and I on the other side of it with these platforms, how can we help?

How can we move? And how can we, you know, benefit with communication and with voices? And I also want to just ask Susan what you are up to with headline crime with Susan Hendricks. I see that you're doing a lot of interviews. And like I said, you are doing incredible things at crime. crime con as a presenter, as a panel, as a voice. But tell us what you're up to. Well, I'd like to interview, but this is my home right now, the hotel, but Dave,

Vito, I want to interview them. It's so funny. I'll ask about the table. Coming up, I will interview Kim Goldman. That's on the books because she wants to talk about the co-worker victim impact statements that she was telling me, I met her crime crime years and years ago. She said, look, I wish, because Ron, her brother was killed along with Nicole. Brown Simpson and she said, gosh, I wish they could all be televised because it's really, you know,

of course, seeing Kaylee Gonzalez's sister, Olivia. So she said she'd like to talk about that, which I would too in terms of, you know, that's the one thing. Maybe in Delphi they could have put cameras for that. Who knows? But that's why Josh was able to go to read his he wanted to. But so Kim Goldman to talk about that. And of course, Dave Vito to talk about his idol, Benipa. damn. So that's coming up once I get into my house soon. Okay. Well, we'll look forward to that. And everyone definitely go subscribe to Susan Hendricks channel. You are an incredible journalist, an incredible person, an incredible friend. I'm so glad that we are friends, but also we just need voices like yours in this, this wild world of true crime. I wish it wasn't so wild, but true crime

is that. And so, but, you know, we do our best. And yeah. So thank you. Thank you. Thank you for joining us from your hotel room. And we appreciate it. And until next time, we'll see you. Bye. Bye. I knew about investing, but I really didn't know how to go about it. Meet Corey, a Walthfront client. With Wealthfront, it could put money in, and it would automatically distribute it into a diversified portfolio. Then it starts to compound. The compounding compounds on the compounding. Just let it run, and it's great. Over 1 million clients trust Wealthfront. Get started at Wealthfront.com.

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