Hidden True Crime - CHAD DAYBELL TRIAL: Defense's full closing arguments led by Chad's attorney John Prior

Episode Date: May 30, 2024

Listen to Chad Daybell's attorney John Prior delivered his closing arguments on May 29th, 2024 during Chad's trial; followed by rebuttal by State prosecutor Lindsay Blake. Join Hidden True Crime as we follow Chad Daybell's trial from beginning to end. Host Lauren Matthias is in the courtroom daily, doing lunch lives on YouTube and summarizing each day and week right here on Hidden: A True Crime Podcast. Lauren Matthias was a television reporter for a decade and has followed the Lori Vallow and Chad Daybell case since 2019. She and her husband, Dr. John Matthias, a criminal psychologist, started Hidden True Crime in 2020 with their Season, 'Beyond the Veil,' a psychological deep dive into the doomsday murders and prophet. What started as a simple conversation at their dinner table became a captivating podcast. Join the dynamic duo of Dr. John Matthias, a forensic psychologist, and Lauren Matthias, an investigative journalist, as they delve into the psychological facets of unthinkable crimes every week. Their unique perspectives and in-depth analysis offer a fresh take on true crime storytelling. Thank you for your support through sponsorships, subscribing, listening, and becoming a Patreon member at Patreon.com/HiddenTrueCrime Our Sponsors:* Check out Acorns: https://acorns.com/HIDDENTRUECRIME* Check out Acorns: https://acorns.com/HIDDENTRUECRIME* Check out Armoire and use my code HIDDENTRUECRIME for a great deal: https://www.armoire.style* Check out Effecty and use my code HIDDENTRUECRIME for a great deal: https://www.effecty.com* Check out Happy Mammoth and use my code HIDDENTRUECRIME for a great deal: https://happymammoth.comSupport this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/hidden-a-true-crime-podcast1836/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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All right, we're back on the record on KCR 2221-1623, State of Idaho versus Chad Guy, day bell. We just concluded the lunch recess. At this time, the state completed its closing argument. It's now time for the defense to make its closing argument. Mr. Pryor, is the defense ready? Folks hear me? Okay. Thank you. I promise you at about 15 slides. Not going to be long. I want to touch on a few points. And then I want to spend a little bit of time talking to you folks, a little bit of out the case, okay? I promise you this isn't going to take two hours. It'll be briefer, but there are some points that I need to touch on, and then I would respectfully ask for your attention in regards to that. I want to start out with the first slide, and the reason

I did this is because in order for there to be a conviction, there's a chain of links that the prosecutor attorney has to go through. Chad Daybell, the first link is that he's presumed innocent. He's presumed innocent now. He was presumed innocent during the trial. He's presumed innocent throughout the trial. When it goes back to the jury and you consider the evidence, that's when you make the decision.

And that's how that works. Throughout the trial, from the very beginning, to the middle to the end to today, the entire burden has been on the state, okay? And the definition of what has to be proven by the state is beyond a reasonable doubt. The state must prove every element beyond a reasonable doubt. Now, you've heard some information previously

from the other attorney about what the state has to prove. One of the things the state has to prove in regards to the conspiracy charges is that there was an agreement, okay? And if you recall when we were going through the voir dire process, that fancy French word that talks about when we were trying to select the jury, I talked to you and asked a number of you what an agreement is. What do you believe an agreement is? Okay. But the state has to prove that Chad Daybell, with Lori Vallow or with Alex Cox, or with other co-conspirators that they haven't named, with one of them entered into some sort of an agreement to kill the law. the children and to kill Tammy Daybill. And then you have to show that Chad's involvement in that. That's the next thing the state has to show. Then they have to show that there was evidence of the murder. Jury instruction number three talks about, again, what I just talked about. The defendant Chad Guy

Daybill has been charged in the amended indictment with certain counsel of conspiracy with Lori Valo and or Alex Cox, who's deceased, and or other conspirators, both known and unknown. And then it goes on and I'll talk this a little bit out. The crime of conspiracy involves an agreement by two or more persons to commit a crime. Okay, it can't be an agreement that we have consistent religious beliefs. It can't be an agreement that we talk about religion without unless there's an extra step. And that extra step has to be we are going to kill these children. We are going to agree to kill Tammy D.

Daybell. You can hear all the testimony in the world about dark spirits. You can hear all the testimony in the world about light and dark. You can hear all the testimony in the world about death percentages. And if you remember when we talked about death percentages with Officer Kay, who I think is here today, one of the text messages or the messages that he put up that he pulled off when he did his Google search is about Tammy and Chad talking about death percentages, talking about light and dark. You heard from Emma Murray, how Emma Murray talks to her father. Now, they used a different term, but in Chad's traditional religion is a traditional LDS faith, it was not uncommon to talk about light and dark. It was not in common because we showed you the

message between Tammy and Mark and Chad where they talked about death percentages. Okay? Now, the state brings up, yes. Oh, Chad, Chad put a death percentage on Tiley and JJ and Tammy and they're all dead. But you also heard testimony from one of the state's experts that said, we don't know if it was a high number or a low number and there's confusion as to what that means. And I'd like to go back to the discussion that we had with one of the FBI agents who mentioned that there were thousands and thousands of messages. An enormous amount of evidence here. You heard from my expert, Patrick Eller.

He talked about, I think, the Library of Congress holds one terabyte of evidence if we went paper to paper through the whole bill. building. And we had six terabytes, six bounds of paper that would fit in six libraries of Congress. And what has happened is you've been shown a handful of text messages that talk about a plan, that talk about death percentages, that talk about light and dark, talk about a variety of subjects. But what you didn't hear is you didn't hear about the thousands and thousands of messages that talked about religious beliefs, talked about a variety of other topics. And if we look at each and every one of ours position, you can always find a text message or a message of some kind that may be slanted or turned in a way to benefit one position or

another. And that's not particularly uncommon. How often is that you send out a text message to somebody and it's misconstrued? How often is it that you send an electronic message to somebody through an email and it's misunderstood or maybe it's looked at in a different way. You know, as a society, we've lost our ability to communicate. Doing what I'm doing today is a lost art. Lawyers have to do this, especially in our position. But many of people who are in jobs, what it's done is send me a quick email, send me a text message, tell me what you feel. And sometimes those messages can be construed. The prosecuting attorney talked about, oh, there was a plan and insinuating to you, suggesting to you that this plan was to kill the children. And at no time did the prosecuting

attorney show you a text message that said, let's kill the kids. Let's kill Tammy. Okay. Instead, they talked about a plan. This is what we're looking to do in the future. Okay? That's what they said to you. And they're trying to insinuate or suggest you that in some way that means, well, that that means that we're going to kill the kids. No, the plan was, and whether you believe with Chad's religious beliefs or not, whether you accept his religious beliefs, 144,000, that's his beliefs. He was a gatherer. He was a gatherer of the 144,000. And he said, I want to gather people, the sick, the elderly. the children, the impoverished, those that can't handle for themselves and those that may be able to go on and become a part and parcel as this gatherer that he suggests would put together the 144,000 in Rexburg. Now, whether you think that's crazy or not, it doesn't matter. Whether you agree with light and dark, it doesn't matter. Whether you agree with death percentage, it doesn't matter. He's entitled to his beliefs. Every one of us has beliefs.

Every one of us believes has a certain core set of beliefs that we believe in and think about. Are they all rational? Maybe not. Maybe not. Everybody has pursuits that they want to pursue and and things they want to do in their future. You know, I wanted to be a professional fisherman, not really good at fishing. Wasn't going to work out. Wasn't going to make a lot of money. But it could still be a dream.

I always wanted a 30-inch waist. That's not happening, folks. It's just not going to happen. I'm too old and maybe not as motivated as I should. should be. But we all have dreams. Now, how do we know these are dreams that Chad talks about? Because for 15 years, he was writing books. He was writing books about things that he was passionate about. And if you know anything about authors, when they're passionate about something, anybody comes up to them and brings up a subject and says, let's talk about religion. You've opened the floodgates.

and it's very easy for you to go out there and say, I want to talk about my religion. I want to tell you all about all of these things. And at some point, when you start writing books and you go to these preparing the people conferences, and you meet all of these people, and you feel like, well, maybe I've become a little bit of a celebrity. Okay?

In this case, I don't want to become a celebrity. I've had enough now at this point. But, you know, Chad writes books. And he goes to these conferences and he talks about all of these religious beliefs. He talks about his premonitions. He talks about things that he thinks he can predict. Do you believe him? You don't have to.

You don't have to believe anything he stands for. Nobody does. But he has a right to talk about it. And he has a right to say what he wants to say. And that's one of the distinctions, folks. requires involves an agreement. It requires an agreement. You don't get to the overt acts. You don't get to all of the things the prosecutor has said about all of the things these people have done until you establish that Chad Daybell, by evidence and testimony, in the last two months,

has shown that there's been an agreement between him and Lori, him and Alex or anyone else, there's no agreement. Show me the text message. It says there's an agreement. Show me the text message. It says, this is what we're going to do. You were showing some things to talk about plans. Yeah. The plans of the 144,000, the plans of putting together this village of people to help all of these people out and do all of this. Traditional Mormon faith beliefs. Traditional Mormon faith beliefs. Traditional Mormon faith beliefs. Those traditional Mormon faith beliefs that also included things like celestial

marriages, being able to marry someone in the celestial realm and do that, going to a temple and saying, up there, I'm allowed to get married in the celestial because that's what we were taught. That's traditional. I'm allowed to do all of these things. Now, whether you agree with that or not, it doesn't matter. But if you have a score set of beliefs, and those are things you believe in, that's not a crime. The crime only comes into play. The crime of conspiracy involves an agreement to commit a crime. You should only consider the evidence against the defendant Chad Guy Dable in this case and should not speculate as to any other case or legal proceedings involving alleged co-conspirators. When I first started with you folks with the voir dire process, again, that fancy French word that I always mispronounce, I talked to you a little bit about speculation.

I talk to you about hunch. I talk to you about conjecture. I talk to you about guess. They all mean the same thing. The judge's instruction and what this judge has told us we have to do. and I put it up there for a reason. You must only consider the evidence against the defendant Chad Daybell in this case. It says it in the third instruction that you're going to read.

Only in this case. The evidence that you have heard, they have not established an agreement. They have not given you any proof that there's any kind of an agreement. Read the overt acts. They espoused religious beliefs. That's what it says in the conspiracy charges. We espoused religious beliefs.

Chad espoused his religious beliefs. Unless there's agreement, it doesn't matter whether he espoused his religious beliefs or not, because everybody's allowed to espouse their religious beliefs. I can tell you all about my religious beliefs. I can tell anybody, you could all talk all day long about our religious beliefs. But unless there's an agreement to commit a crime, you can talk all day long about your religious. beliefs. You could say anything you want. I can say there's a little, I can say there's a little green

man in my backyard and I get to dance around with him and talk about religion all day long. And whether you believe it or not, it doesn't matter, but I'm entitled to my opinion to say that. And unless I can get into an agreement to commit a conspiracy, all the overt acts in the world don't matter. So there are two overt acts in the conspiracy that they talked about with JJ and highly. They killed these kids because of Chad's religious beliefs. That's what they're saying. His religious beliefs and all of this talk about dark and light was the reason Chad, Lori and Alex killed these kids. And then, oh, by the way, the other over that, Chad googled Southwest Wind. And yet, we heard from Emma Murray. She said, I Googled South Southwest Wind.

I had an event like Joe Murray's 5K race to see what the weather was going to be alike, or another event that Joe was involved in, and she Googled at a short time before that event. You have to have an agreement. Again, do not speculate as any other case or legal proceedings involved in the alleged co-conspirator. What that's telling you is this, judge's instruction, You heard testimony about Charles Vallow. We've heard about that.

We've heard a lot about it. Council brought it up again today. Brought it up again today. And I believe if I remember right, I don't see him. Officer Duncan's here today. And Officer Duncan got on the stand. And when I pressed him and remember, folks, I brought the paper out. Brought the sheet of paper out.

And I said, Officer Duncan, read this to the jury. Read what this prosecuting attorney in Arizona stated about status of the case. And what did he say? Chad Daybell, in regards to Charles Vallow, no reasonable likelihood of conviction. What that means? They don't have any evidence. They don't have any reason. So, you know, you don't get to say, well, you know, he's guilty because he must have been

involved Charles Valo, except the prosecutor said no reasonable likelihood of conviction. Lori Valo's involved with Charles Valo. Alex Cox, if he was not deceased, involved with Charles Valo. Then we go to Brandon Boudreau. We go to Brandon Boudreau. Chad Daybell, not implicated in regards to Brandon Boudreau. You know what Chad did? Do you know why he's not implicated?

He carried a tire from a storage unit from a Jeep. And the prosecutor down there recognized, you don't have an agreement there because you carried a tire. You don't have an agreement because Chad Daybell has religious beliefs that we don't believe in. What they have is they have Alex Cox shooting at Brandon Boudreau and Lori Vallow down there involved. And that's what you have down there.

Do not speculate as to any other case or legal proceeding involving the alleged co-conspirator. It's in black and white. Facts, evidence. Again, that fancy French word voir dire. I talked to you about you, folks, about that. I talked about facts and evidence. Fact. Chad Daybell was not involved with Charles VIII.

Vallow. Fact. Chad Daybell is not implicated with Brandon Boudreau. Fact. Chad Daybell espoused religious beliefs. And if you want to believe the prosecutor, well, maybe Chad Daybell did a South, Southwest search. Where's the agreement? Where is the agreement? It's not there. Most people don't realize how much their personal information is being bought and sold every day. Data brokers are making billions, pulling details about you from public records and the internet, and then packaging and selling it, usually without your consent. That's how your information lands in the hands of scammers, spammers, even stalkers. It's why you get endless robocalls and why ads seem to follow you everywhere.

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and you must decide, consider as innocence based solely on the evidence, the facts and evidence that you have been presented. That's what you have to consider. We don't speculate. We do not guess. We do not engage in conjecture. We don't do any of those things. Facts and evidence.

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consistent with what you remember in your notes? You all took notes. You all have a memory. I know it's been a couple of months, but you all took notes and you all have a memory. And the judge's other instruction would be rely on your memory. Rely on your notes about what you remembered. Not what the lawyers say. That includes me. If I say something that's different than what you remember in your notes, you rely on your notes. They said something different than what you remember, you rely on your notes. You rely on your memory. That's the way this works. That's why we all have memories. That's why we all take notes. That's why we all document what has been said for the last two months. I watched all of you take very careful notes. I watched all of you document what was

being said. Rely on your notes. Rely on your memories. Under our law and system of justice, the defendant is presumed to be innocent. The presumption of innocent means two things. The state has the burden proving the defendant guilty. The state has the burden throughout the trial. The defendant is never required to prove his innocence, nor does the defendant ever have to produce any evidence at all. Chad doesn't have to do anything. He could sit back there and just let the state do their thing. And if he did that and they never proved that there was an agreement, you can't say they put on more evidence than the defense did. That's not the way this works. They have the burden to prove that there was an agreement. They have a burden of proving

that Chad in some way was involved in the murder. Now the insurance cases go back to, well, if Chad was planning a murder, that way he lied and he took advantage of the insurance. And that's how that works. Because if you folks find that he wasn't involved in the conspiracy or the murder of anybody, there's no insurance fraud case. Doesn't have to provide any evidence. evidence at all. Now, you know four experts, Dr. Bartling. We're going to get to that a little bit. Dr. Hampingian, Dr. Raven, Patrick Eller, he didn't have to do that. Chad didn't, it's not his job to prove innocence. It's their job, and it's their burden to prove guilt. They have the obligation to prove guilt. Second, the state must prove the alleged crime beyond a reasonable doubt.

A reasonable doubt is not mere possible or imaginary doubt. It is based on reason and common sense. So when you think about reasonable doubt, what you're doing is you're saying, okay, do I have a reason to believe or doubt whether Mr. Daybell is guilty, whether Chad did this? Do I have a, using my common sense and reason. Is it possible Chad's not guilty of this? That's reasonable doubt. If you're saying to yourself, I don't know what happened.

I don't know the truth. I have no idea really, maybe we will never know what happened here. If that's going through your head, folks, and you don't know which way this is supposed to go, or you have some doubt in your mind, whether the state proved their case,

The verdict is not guilty. And under our system of justice, it has to be not guilty. Because you can't just bring a bunch of people in from a school who suddenly espoused that Tammy was perfectly fine. And one after another, after another, and bringing the principal in, and bringing anybody who ever even spoke to Tammy once or once a week or anybody else and saying, oh, she was healthy.

and yet they didn't show there was a significant discussion about her health. And we're not supposed to believe her family. We're not supposed to believe her son and our daughter who knew her better than anybody else. And then I guess what the state would like to do is, well, believe all of these nine, 10, 12, 15 teachers and principals and everybody else who was dragged in and said, oh, yeah, healthy as a horse. Common sense. Common sense. That's what you need to do. and may arise from careful and impartial consideration of all the evidence or from the lack of evidence. If after considering all the evidence, you have a reasonable doubt about the defendant's guilt, you must find the defendant not guilty.

If you have a doubt and you don't know what happened, you must find Chad not guilty. That's not from me. It's not from them. it's from the one that matters, the one who sets the rules and tells you what the instruction is, and read it for yourself. You're going to get a copy of the instruction.

It's jury instruction number five. You must, if you have doubt, Chad doesn't have to prove anything, but if you have doubt about what happened here, the verdict has to be not guilty. That's what the law says. This is jury instruction number eight, and I want to, when you pull up jury instruction number eight,

instruction number eight with you folks in the the booklets that you get, you'll see that I only took a couple of sentences out of that. In all fairness, jury instruction number eight is much longer than this. And there's a lot more information in there. But what I did is I pulled out what the theme and what I wanted to talk to you about. And on jury instruction number eight, as part of it, it says in determining the facts, you may consider only the evidence admitted in this trial. You consider the evidence that has been presented to you. There has not been any evidence saying, we're going to kill the kids. We're going to kill Tammy. There is talk about a plan. Yeah, the 144,000 building a village for the children, the infirm, the sick, the other people that Chad is

able to gather. There's the plan. And if you go through the evidence, you'll see there's reference to the plan. It wasn't a plan to kill, folks. It was a plan to gather. A plan to gather by a gentleman who's a traditional Mormon. And yes, you don't have to like his beliefs. You don't have to agree with his beliefs, but he sure has the right to believe whatever he wants to believe. second line. And again, you'll see the dot, dot, dots is because the jury instruction number eight, I want to say it again so that we're very clear. I didn't publish the entire jury instruction number eight. I took these two paragraphs out. And when you read the rest of it, you'll see it's, it basically covers the same subject. There's other topics in there that talk about it. But under the second sentence, do not attempt to guess

what the answer might have been or what the exhibit might have shown. That goes back to what I talked to in the very beginning of the trial. You can't speculate. You can't guess. You can't engage in conjecture. You can't say this is what he must have meant, or this is what she must have meant, or this is what they meant by this. No, you look at the evidence and unless it tells you something,

you take the evidence as you take the evidence. Again, the judge's instructions. This talks about jury instruction number 18. And the state talked about this a little bit. And I'm going to go through the whole thing. I'll be quick. Okay. The law makes no distinction between a person who directly participates in the acts constituting a crime and a person who either before during the commission intentionally aids, assists, facilitates, promotes, encourages, counsel, solicits, invites, helps or hires another to commit a crime with the intent to promote, or assist in its commission. That was a lot.

I can talk, but that was a lot. In other words, what that's saying is that if there was a murder and someone did something to help along, aided in that, that's a problem. And it is. Okay. But then we go down to the last sentence, and this is what's important,

and this is what you need to look at. And in all fairness, I wanted to put the entire jury instruction so you could put it into perspective. Mere presence at acquiescence in or silent consent to the planning or commissioning of a crime is not sufficient to make one an accomplice. Okay? What that's saying is this. Chad Daybill can talk about religion all day long.

Chad Daybill can espouse his beliefs and he could talk about zombies with Zaluma or Melanie Gibb can teach about zombies. and Chad can talk about dark spirits. Chad can talk about light and dark. Chad could talk about all sorts of religious beliefs. Okay? But when the time comes, if something happened to those children, even if Chad had knowledge, acquiesced or silently said,

well, I may know about this. I may know what have happened. What that instruction, the number 18, is saying, mere presence at acquiescence in or silence, consent to the planning or commission of a crime is not sufficient to make one an accomplice. Accomplice means no conspiracy unless he took some sort of a step to make an agreement. There has to be an agreement. We're going back to that again.

There has to be an agreement. There is no agreement. Chad Daybell testimony. He met Tiley a couple times, meant JJ a couple of times. there was not a lot of contact. There was not a lot of encounter from when they first met to the time they moved to Rexburg. And you heard the testimony. I want you to go back and listen to the testimony. I want you to look back at Jason William and really listened. One of the exhibits has been admitted and State provided that a little bit, just tried at a portion of it anyway. Lori Vallow is talking about a family attorney. Now, for those of us,

who know what a family attorney is, they deal with divorce, they deal with custody fights, they deal with all of those topics. Chad said, the kids are okay, it'll be cleared up in time. There's a simple solution. He calls Melanie Gibb talking to her, you know, and if you listen back to the tape recording, basically in essence, he's saying, where are the kids, Melanie? What's going on? I thought they were with you.

He did say, don't lie to the police. Well, you know why? Because he thought Cade and Larry were in the process of trying to take the kids from Lori. Where did he get that from? Guess where? Lori Vallow. Chad didn't know where the kids were. Chad didn't know where the kids were until that fateful day on June 9th,

when they're discovered on his property. Up until that time, Lori Vallow was selling to Jason William and anybody else who would listen, the family attorney line. The kids are fine. And you heard Lori Valo talk about it. If nobody knows about it, the better. She said that. Only I need to know what was going on.

I'm the one who needs to know what's going on. And if nobody else knows anything, they can't do anything about it. That was the dupe on Chad DeBell. The kids are fine. It's all going to be cleared up. There's a simple solution. We're hiring a family law attorney to deal with it. They're not hiring a criminal defense attorney.

They're not hiring a criminal defense attorney. So Lori Vallow's decision to hire a family law attorney and Chad going along with it because there's a simple solution. Kids are safe. Everything's going to be fine. Mere presence, acquiescence, silent consent doesn't get you there.

Even if he knew there was a crime, even if Chad DeBell knew, well, maybe the kids are, and safe. The testimony is he was, everything's fine. Simple solution. But even if you don't believe that, even if you don't accept that and say, how could he not know where the kids were? I want you to look at jury instruction number 18. Mere presence at acquiescence in. Silent consent too. It doesn't get you there and it doesn't mean he committed a crime. He's saying the kids are safe because Lori told them the kids are safe. He's saying it was a simple solution because this was a custody fight because

Kay and Larry were trying to take the kids, JJ anyway, from Lori. Lori talked about that with detective stuff, with one of the detectives on the 26th of November. He talked, Ron Ball, excuse me, Officer Ball's here, I think, front row, talked about it with Ron Ball. the other thing Most people don't realize how much their personal information is being bought and sold every day. Data brokers are making billions

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protect yourself now at aura.com slash remove about that tape that you need to understand the other thing about the tape and I didn't mean to go on this long and I'm sorry I guess I may not have been completely forthright it's going to take a little longer than I thought but I want to emphasize this stuff I apologize for that the other thing is when you listen to the tape with Ron Ball and the other officer okay you hear Lori Vallow talk about Well, I'm only here for a short while, and this is in September when they first started looking for where the kids are. And go back to your notes, go back to your memory, but then go back to the tape and listen to the tape where Lori Valo says, well, I'm also going to be planning to move back with my friend Melanie Gibb. That was in September when she moved here. The kids were here, and she's already planning. She hadn't even been here for very long, a couple months.

and she's already planning on moving back and she said it in her own words with my friend Melanie Gibb after being two months here. And that's important. Keep, remember that. During instruction 18, acquiescence. And it's a big word.

Okay? And I looked it up in the dictionary. I'll admit that, okay? I looked it up because I know what silent consent is. But when you look up acquiescence, It says awareness, acceptance, compliance. I'm aware of it. All right, I'm accepting it.

I'm going to go along with it. That's acquiescence. I'm going to just go along with what is going on. So even if you think Chad Daybell should have known, but there was no agreement. There was no evidence that he entered into this plan to do this. The prosecutors over at acts talk about espousing religious beliefs. They don't mention an agreement, but they know.

They know you got to have an agreement first before you get to the overt acts. I showed you that earlier. And acquiescence means I'm aware, I accept, I'll even comply. Your presence, acquiescence in or silent consent, the planning or commission of crime, is not sufficient to make one an accomplice. Acquiescence, if there's no agreement, there's no plan to do that, and you don't have Chad Dayball with any evidence,

the evidence that you're only supposed to consider that you have, he didn't commit a crime if that's what you believe. Now he's saying the kids were fine. They were being kept and Lori Vallow was doing that. It was a simple solution. But if you don't believe that, acquiescence does not make it a crime, folks. And this isn't me saying this. This isn't some lawyer's argument.

This is this judge's instruction. Acquiescence, inner silent consent to is not sufficient to make one an accomplice. We're going to go back to the jury instruction 20 and talks about, again, the amended indictment against Mr. Debel for first-year-murder and grand theft. by deception. And the important, oops, skips, I was expecting it at some point. The important part here is involves an agreement. Once again, it involves an agreement.

Once again, conspiracy involves an agreement. You have to have an agreement for there to be a conspiracy. You have to have an agreement. There is no agreement. Yeah, sure thing. Hey, you saw that car yet? Yeah. Sold it to Carvana.

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from one of their top brands for the new Samsung Galaxy S25 Plus with Galaxy AI, and a watch and tab on any plan. Only on Verizon. With new line on my plan, service plan required for watch and tab. Additional terms apply. See Verizon.com for details. Now's the time for a great deal on a new Honda. It's time to take an adventure with rugged capability and commanding style. Check out the Honda Ridgeline, pilot, or CRV. For a limited time, well-qualified buyers can get a 3.9% APR on a 2025 pilot or a 2.9% APR on a 2025 ridgeline or CRV. See Dealer for Financing Details. I want to talk a little bit about Exhibit 35 and 36.

And those are exhibits that I submitted for your consideration. And if you remember, I had the officer on the stand that I believe it was one of the state police officers, and I had them show you the handle of the shovel that was one of the many tools that were provided to them. And I zeroed in on the shovel, and this was the shovel that was at the scene of the crime. And it had dirt on it, like it had been used, like someone had been shoveling with it, on June 9th and June 10th, the day the bodies were removed from the ground. But I provided your exhibit number 35 and 36 for a reason. Because when you look at the very first pictures of the tools lined up in the corner in the barn

and you zoom in on that picture of the black shovel, you'll notice there's no dirt on the handle. And then on June 9th, later in the day, you see the shovel on the ground. Zoom in on the shovel, black shovel handles, folks. and magically there's dirt on the handle of the shovel. And then the subsequent pictures again on the 10th, there's dirt on the shovel. And then when the shovel gets to the state police and the officers up there from the lab, surprisingly no dirt on the shovel handle, the black handle, the high end of the handle.

No dirt in the beginning, dirt in the middle, no dirt on the end. and magically, surprisingly, those pictures are from June 9th and June 10th. The shovel and tools were used to dig. You heard from Officer Schmidt, grab some shovels and start digging. They didn't say grab shovels that we brought. They didn't say anything like that.

They said, grab the shovels and start digging. Now, how do we know that he's telling the truth? Because 35 and 36 and take the time and go over the pictures, expand on those pictures of that black-handled shovel. And tell me, clean, first picture. Dirty, dirty, clean. They use the shovels. The police who were investigating this case,

use the shovels, and then magically we get a, at pickaxe, and magically we get another shovel. And guess what? Surprisingly, of the 18 tools, you heard from Dr. Hanpinkean, not a drop of DNA of Chad Daybill is on any of the tools. Nothing else was tested. But ironically, you know, we found Tiley Ryan's DNA on a shovel and a pickax

that were found right next to the shed with that black shovel that was used on June 9th and June 10th. Motive. I want to talk to you a little bit about motive. Alex Cox. He killed Charles Valo in front of Tiley and JJ. You heard testimony. Alex Cox shot Charles Valo once. And then he walks up to Charles Valo while he's dying and puts another bullet in him.

And who are two of the witnesses? Lori Valo is not going to say anything against her protector. Lori Valo is not going to do anything about her beloved brother. But Alex Cox knows there are two people, two expendable people in Alex Cox's mind who witnessed the murder of Charles Valo. That would be Tiley Ryan and J.J. Valo. Tyler Ryan and J.J. Valo, the murder of Charles Valo. They become expendable because the one thing that can cause Alex Cox to spend the rest of his life or far worse in Arizona is a 16-year-old girl and an autistic seven-year-old little boy.

Chad Daibald was not charged in that. Lori Vallow's charged. Again, what I told you before, we had office. Dr. Duncan, no reasonable likelihood of conviction of Chad. Lori Vallow cared about a couple of things. Lori Vallow cared about money, and she cared about Lori Vallow, and she cared about Alex Cox. Now, how do we know Lori Vallow cared about money? We know Lori Vallow cared about money because I believe it was the third husband, Joseph Ryan,

Joseph Ryan. You heard evidence from the witnesses. Lori Valo collected the insurance proceeds from the death of Joseph Ryan. Then the state went on and put on a tremendous amount of evidence. Tremendous amount of evidence. Charles Valo, she was mad. She was really mad. She didn't get the money. Kay Woodcock is on top of it.

She stopped that. And even when Lori tried to get the beneficiary changed, Lori didn't get her greedy hands on the money. And then what happens? The next victim. The next victim. Husband number five. Number five.

Just get insurance. Don't worry about saying there's any kids or any beneficiaries or anything like that. Honey, just say it's me and you. And while all of this is going on, all of this is happening. Chad's really good friend Alex Cox, really close friend, is Googling how to put a bullet through the windshield in the side of a black Dodge Dakota that Chad Daybell primarily drives. The target was not Tammy Daybell.

It was not Tammy Daybell. You heard testimony about the insurance. The target was not Tammy Daybell. Tammy Daybell. He was the target. The driver of the black Dodge, how do we get it through the window? How do we get it through the side? Because once Chad is gone, once Chad is out of the way, guess what? Ryan's insurance, Kay Woodcock stopped the insurance from Charles Vallow. And she put an end to that. next victim, Chad Daybell, because Alex Cox was going to do something to him, and that gave Lori the straight line to pick up the next proceeds. And according to Lori Valo's own statement on November 26, with our friend Ron Ball there, I'm going to get back with Lori. I'm going to go back with Melanie. I'm going to go back with Melanie. Okay. So Alex Cox had a motive. The motive was

Alex Cox would be either spending the rest of his life in prison or far worse fate. If JJ or Tiley even opened their mouth and said anything about observing or being there when Alex Cox decided to put the finishing touches and do the final bullet into Charles Vallow's chest while he was laying there dying. I want to talk a little bit about confirmation bias. We talked a little bit about that. It's when somebody starts an investigation or gears themselves. We talked a little bit about that with Dr. Christensen, how he made the determination at the end.

And he said, well, you know, it's between, you know, we don't know what happened or homicide. But then I looked at all the police reports. And the police officers provided me with all of the police reports. They provided me with all of the evidence. And when I looked at all of this massive pile that Ms. Blake went through of all the evidence that they provided, at my request, I said, you know, this is going to be homicide instead of undetermined. But then you ask them, why didn't you call the kids? Because you requested information from the police.

Why didn't you request information from the kids? Why didn't you ask them? Because they wanted to know why their mother was exhumed with no basis or explanation to them for doing it. And they didn't hear anything for 14 months. No explanation. So call, Dr. Christensen, call these children and say, can you tell me anything about their medical history? Can you tell me anything about whether your mother was feeling ill? Whether she was fainting, whether she was having seizures, whether her anemia was inflamed, whether, and the last questioning was whether she had inflammation in the lungs that was never brought up.

and why her lungs were filled, give us something, tell me something, but that didn't happen. Confirmation bias means you pick a target and you go after whatever evidence you have to to make that target look like that person is guilty. And all of them in the audience with the suits, that's exactly what they did.

That's exactly what they did. Gib and Warwick were ignored. Gibb and Warwick were ignored. They didn't get DNA evidence from them. They didn't get phone records from them. They did nothing. At the end, they took a hair sample for, I think, Melanie in 2020. There was a hair sample in 2020 from Melanie.

Didn't do anything with it. On the 22nd and 23rd in Lori Vallow's apartment, there were four people in that apartment. on the day that J.J. Vallow was murdered. Lori Vallow was there. J.J. Vallow was there. Melanie Gibb was there. David Warwick was there. And the prosecutor talked about a phone call to Chad.

Go back and look at the notes, folks, and you'll see that it was actually a text message that Melanie sent to Chad. It went unanswered for eight or nine hours. Melanie was kind to cover her tracks. She was trying to say, well, you know, I know I'm here. This is what's going on. Me and my good friend,

happened to JJ and, you know, oh, there were all of this stuff. And the biggest complaining witness against Chad Daybell, all of this religious stuff, all of these facts, all of this stuff about, you know, Chad teaching people about his religious beliefs. It came from Melanie Gibb, the one person who has everything to lose. David Warwick and Melanie Gibb were present at the time that J.J. Valo was murdered. Chad Daybell's phone on the 23rd, no location information, no Google information. Now, you heard from the officer,

I think it was Stubbs, who said, well, he turned the Google off. What about the phone? What about all the apps? What about all the other ways that Patrick Eller talked about about you could find and locate a phone on a piece of property if he was there?

And yet we didn't hear anything about that. Because on the 23rd, when JJ's body was dumped in the ground by Alex Cox and dug that hole, Chad Daybell was not there. And ironically enough, look back at your notes. Look back at your notes and look back when Melanie Gibb and David Warwick said, well, we left town that morning. Alex Cox left at 921 to drive toward Chad Daybell's property.

Melanie Gibb and David Warwick claim that at 930, well, we were on our way to Pocatello. Show me the phone records, David. Show me the phone records, Melanie Gibb. This episode is sponsored by Garden. Groceries are getting more expensive and somehow less fresh. If you're tired of throwing away wilted greens and overpaying for produce that doesn't last, it's time to grow your own. Meet Garden. It's a sleek, soil-free, indoor growing system that does the hard work for you. Using automated light and water, garden grows fresh, clean food in your living room or kitchen all year long.

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and David's is a construction consultant, and they had to say whatever they have to say to get out of this. Offer whatever information they need to this prosecuting attorney to convince them, that oh we weren't involved even though we were there at the night of the murder we have nothing to do with this we know nothing and yet ironically within 10 minutes after after alex cox leaves 10 minutes later Melanie gib and david warwick so how did the body of jj get in the back of the trunk from lorry vallow's apartment with melanie and david there

10 minutes later? Three people? Simple as can be. Now, September 9th, again, same cast of characters, same folks, same people. Alex Cox, Lori Vallow, Tiley Ryan. You saw a text message from Chad, Dave Latt, 1056, 1056. 57, shot a raccoon, earned some limbs, no location device on September 9th with Chad Daybill on the property, no Google information, no apps, no evidence to show that Chad Daybill was there.

Earlier in the day, yeah, he buried a raccoon. He started a small fire, earned some limbs, and he told his wife about it. Okay. And we know that he shot a raccoon, Regan Price. Remember Reagan Price? Regan Price is the one who said early in the morning she heard a shot. She didn't see anything else. She didn't see anything else out there. But Regan Price heard a shot in the morning. And if there's a hole to be dug in the pet cemetery, we know why. If there's ground that was disturbed, we know why. because Chad Daybell in his text message to his wife said, I shot a raccoon and Reagan heard the shot. Reagan heard the shot.

But Reagan didn't see anything else. Then we get to Dr. Eric Bartlingk, Dr. Bartling, remember, forensic anthropologist, the fire guy, the guy who tested the bodies that are contributed to his program to see how long it would take to burn. What did he say? He didn't say you needed a lot of accelerant. It wasn't as much accelerant.

What it was was a bonfire, folks. Where was the bonfire on September 9th? Because Regan Price didn't see anything. Because there was no bonfire. There was no bonfire. It wasn't there. The body was burned as a whole. I can't prove to you where Alex Cox burned this body.

I don't know. What I do know is that the body was burned as a whole. I do know the body was burned as a whole because that's what Dr. Bartling said. I also know that what Dr. Bartling said is there is no explanation and it couldn't have just been the fire that a large number of, a large number of remains of Tiley were not found at the scene.

They were not discovered there. Now, you can't say the police didn't try. You can't say the police didn't try. They brought out a bulldozer. They had a bulldozer. Look at the pictures. They made an effort to try to find whatever they could find. But they couldn't find all the pieces, and they didn't find all the pieces.

And then you saw in Alex Cox's garage, Lori Vallow's garage. you'll see the pictures of Lori Vallow's garage in the exhibit. And there's a container of QuickCrete. And you talked about how one of the people said that, well, trying to dig it up, it looked like there was some sort of concrete or QuickCrete or hard, you know, because Alex Cox poured a box some QuickCrete in there. But the question remains is this.

If Alex Cox put the body in the ground and put QuickCrete to cover up the burial, when did the carnivore bite take place? When did we get the carnivore bite if Alex Cox took the body directly from his apartment? Brought it over to Chads like they're suggesting. Through it in the ground, threw in the QuickCrete. When did the carnivore bite take place? Hello, it is Ryan, and I was on a flight the other day playing one of my favorite social spin slot games on Chumbacasino.com. I looked over the person sitting next to me, and you know what they were doing?

They were also playing Chumba Casino. loving having fun with it. Chumba Casino's home to hundreds of casino-style games that you can play for free anytime, anywhere. So sign up now at chumbacasino.com to claim your free welcome bonus. That's Chumbacasino.com and live the Chumba Life. Sponsored by Chumba Casino. Alex Cox murdered Tiley Ryan. Lori Vallow, because her beloved little brother, her beloved big brother, could be tagged for the murder of Charles Vallow and those two kids saw it.

And Alex Cox took the body after he murdered Tiley Ryan. He took it out somewhere and he burned the body. And while out in the middle of Fremont County or Madison County or wherever he went, where there are thousands and thousands of acres of open ground, Yellowstone Park is just a short way away, folks. This is a wildlife heaven for hunters. Great place for hunters. The body was burned. It was subjected to a carnivore bite, and then it was put in the ground.

And on September 9th, Alex Cox was on Chad Debo's property, at least part of the time. If you remember what Patrick Eller said, he talked about, you know, the fact that there's a certain block of time, an hour, hour of 15 minutes, an hour or 20 minutes or more, where we can't really identify where Alex Cox was. He was there. He was gone. he came back. But then remember the testimony from the state's expert. And remember the testimony from Patrick Eller. Six or seven other times, Alex Cox was on the property of Chad Daybell. No location device with Chad Daybell at that time. No indication that Chad Daybell was on the property at that time when Alex Cox was there. You commit murder of two kids. and the intent is to eventually finish off husband number five,

what's the best place, the ideal place to bury bodies? The new husband set him up. Chad Daybell's electronics weren't there. Chad Daybell wasn't there. Other people were there, especially on the 23rd, the two people who were there when J. J. Valo was brutally murdered. but set Chad up.

And then to make things nice and neat, Alex, finish him off like you were going to do Brandon Boudreau, like you did Charles Vallow. Alex Cox is a murderer, and he is not shy about shooting people. He shot at Brandon Boudreau. He murdered Charles Vallow. Chad DeBoe was next,

and to make the plan nice and neat, let's bury the bodies on Chad Daybell's property. Folks, this has nothing to do with religion. This has nothing. You take a dozen or two dozen or even four or five dozen text messages or emails and communications with someone you're having an affair with. And you tell me that you're going to be able to construe them only one way. They can be construed a number of ways. And that's exactly what they did.

Confirmation bias. confirmation bias. You pick the target and you don't do your job. Text message. Give to prosecutor Wood. Keith, Dateline interview and I want to make sure the church is protected. You heard, Lori, you heard Melanie give read that. Keith and I.

Keith Morrison, Dateline. We want to make sure the church is protected. There were over $300. other messages between prosecutor Wood and Melanie Gibb. Why are we, why are we as Melanie Gibb telling a prosecutor in a criminal case that we need to protect the church? We need to protect the church. We know from Officer Keogamano, one of the messages he pulled off when he did his search was Julie Rowe and the state president saying, Julie, my state president's going to call Chad's state president.

You need to stop publishing your books. You need to stop doing all of this stuff. We need to make sure that the church doesn't get implicated in this because these subjects that we talk about, these dark and light spirits, these other subjects that might be uncomfortable to be exposed, these other subjects that nobody should want to hear about, we need to protect the church so we don't hear it.

So what do you do? You pick a target. And rather than looking at where the evidence leads and the facts, you create a scenario saying, well, he's a religious zealot. Well, he's got all of these crazy ideas about all of this stuff. Yeah, he talked about death percentages, folks. He also said Heather Daybell was dark. He said, Ali Blumer was dark. He said Samantha Gilliam was dark. And he said our good friend over here, Officer Hermaccio, he was dark. He doesn't look dead to me. And Samantha William isn't dead. Ali Blumer's not dead. Heather Daybell's not dead. Heather Daybell, that's the pot stirer. That's the other one. That's the other one who said, you know, I'm the state president's part of this society. And I'm going to send it to all of the ward ladies. And they can decide whether they want to

disseminate all this terrible stuff I've said about my brother, Chad Daybell, and we're going to spread it like fire. The pot stir. The problem is the pot stir was in the organization of the LDS church and was doing it again. Chad was the target. This author writes about uncomfortable things. He talks about uncomfortable things. He discusses topics that maybe make people uncomfortable. But you know what? He has every... every right to talk about it. And you cannot hold it against them because you don't like the topic or you don't agree with the topic or you don't even understand the topic.

I don't understand half the stuff that's going on with some of this religious stuff. I don't have a clue, but I will defend his right to believe whatever he wants to believe. Experts. Dr. Raven. Okay. You remember what Dr. Raven talked about. She talked about the results. She stood here very quickly, very clearly and said, you don't get to engage in confirmatory bias. It's undetermined. And by looking at all of that other stuff, and in 25 or 30 years of doing it, she never did that. She never looked at the other stuff. Dr. Bartling, we already talked about that. The body wasn't, the whole body wasn't there.

Where is it? Patrick Keller. No data showing. Chad Daybell. No device location. Dr. Hampingian, he talked about hair samples, and you remember from the state police talking about the 40 or 50 hair samples that they sent over to one of the laboratories, and some of those included blonde hairs. Blonde hairs. Now, the DNA evidence on the plastic on JJ showed that there was a fingerprint and a handprint of Alex Cox on the plastic. There was also Lori Valje those hair and they had her sample. And when he asked Dr. Hem Pinkin, did they exclude those blonde hairs from that they found on the tape wrapped around JJ?

Did they exclude Lori Valo? It wasn't her. But you know what? Whose blonde hairs were there? I only know one other blonde, JJ Valo and the other blonde. Well, it was the blonde who was with her, with him in the apartment when he died named Melanie Gibb. But once again, we ignore that evidence.

We don't test that evidence. We don't look at that evidence. We don't examine that evidence. We don't get samples of that evidence. Instead, we ignore it and we go right to Chad Daybell. We talked about Dr. Hanpinkey and talking about negative DNA results. And of the 18 tools that were found in Chad Daybell's garage, how many of them had his DNA? Zero.

Did they test anything else? No. magically, Tiley's remains are on a pickaxe and a shovel. The same thing that I talked to you about in Exhibit 35, and folks, please examine that. Please look carefully. Casting. Religious beliefs. Dark light casting.

He's a traditional Mormon. You may not like it. You may not believe what he believes. But he has every right to talk about it. He's written a number of books about it. And any chance anybody gets to even mention the world. religion to him, he goes off under 35 or 40 minute patriarchal prayer that I still don't even understand what he was talking about. But he does it and goes into great detail about all sorts

of things, dark spirits, death percentages, castings. You heard from Emma Murray. You heard from Emma Murray and she talked about the fact that she felt like he had something possessed in her. and Chad helped her rid her of that spirit. Now, whether you believe it or not, it doesn't matter. But I asked her, does that mean you die? No. And when they were talking about inflicting pain and inflicting discomfort,

they're not talking about inflicting discomfort on the actual person. The discussion, if they took the time to look at it, is they're inflicting plane on the spirit that's inhabited the body, and they're trying to make it uncomfortable so that the body and the spirit are separated, and that spirit goes off, and you make it uncomfortable enough that that spirit disappears. DNA evidence. I talked about this already. No, Chad, Alex Cox, Lori Vallow, primary and secondary.

And the important thing is here, as folks, is this. at the time that J.J. Valo was buried. I talked to Dr. Hem Pinkin about this, and some of you smiled because I said, was there anything else I'm missing? Sweat, spit, fingerprints, breathing, any kind of way to get DNA. And Dr. Hem Pinky and said, a small little particle, that's all it takes. And yet after the state lab did their examination, after they went through everything, Nothing of Chad's.

Nothing of Chad's. Hair's not tested. Dr. Hanpinckian said, DNA does not tell us where or when the DNA got there, when it occurred. Talks about presence. Chad Daybell, you can't hold his silence against him.

He can't do that. If he chooses not to talk, you can't even consider that. If that's going into your consideration, then the judge will give you an instruction on that. That's not something you do. Reasonable doubt. Motive Alex Cox. Alex needed to cover for a murder. Lori and Alex, they're the two ones who are involved. Why is it that it's a woman like Lori Valo married five times? She pursued Chad. She's the one who pursued Chad.

Remember when we talked about they were at the book, the book situation where they're selling the books that they're preparing the people? And then subsequently there was a basketball game and Zaluma talked about, well, are you? you afraid of me? And Chad goes walking off. She pursued Chad. I don't know what her agenda is, but ultimately her agenda was to get another life insurance check after Chad Debo was knocked off by Alex Cox. I want to talk a little bit about Tammy, the Fitbit. Officer Maddingly went into great detail about all the mileage she was traveling and all these things she was doing. And then Emma Murray and Joe Murray talk about a simple thing. Tammy would lay in the bed and there was a

competition. And Tammy, if anything, wonderful woman, very competitive, real easy. Run that fit bit up. Run that fit bit up. And it doesn't matter. Even if she was walking, even if she was walking, you heard from Emma Murray how her health wasn't that great, from Garth, how her health wasn't that great. And you can't speculate. You don't get to do what Dr. Christiansen did, which is speculate. that that's well, we think that's what she died. Because if you're speculating, you're breaking the judge's rule. No speculation. Either you know what caused it or you don't know what caused it. And if you don't know what caused it, and one person says undetermined, the other one says homicide because I was provided all the police reports that doesn't get you there. You don't get to speculate.

Officer Coulter, the prosecutor pointed out that at 930, Tammy Daybell, a search. And she did a search on her computer about paintball guns. And then 10 minutes, nine, 10 minutes later, she called the non-emergency line and said there was a paintball incident. And the prosecutor is saying, well, how did she show Officer Coulter if she was Googling it? Because when Officer Coulter eventually got there, as you remember the testimony, if you remember it this way, Garth and Tammy took Officer Coulter the computer and said, this is what the paintball gun looks like. This is what I googled. And Tammy didn't Google AK-47. Tammy didn't Google all of that other stuff. She Googled paintball gun and told Officer Coulter, that's where it is.

And then Officer Coulter fills out a very short police report. And lo and behold, that the urging of whoever his boss is out there changed it a little bit. But he included that Joe Murray saw and heard Tammy yelling and Joe got up there and said, I did not hear that. I did not do any of that. You're wrong, Officer Coulter. And he got his facts wrong. And you know where he gets facts wrong on? The second report he did. Sometime later, after he does the second report, that's where he got the facts wrong. I want to clarify something else. When the police on the 26th contacted Melanie Gibb, she said, I have JJ. I have JJ. And it wasn't a short-time. And it wasn't a short- later. There was a suggestion that it was a short time later. It was 10 days later. The gig was up.

Melanie knew she was caught. She was there during the murder and suddenly she starts singing. And she starts telling these long tales and the biggest complaining witnesses against Chad Daybell, David Warwick, Melanie Gibb. They're the two that are saying all of this stuff. saying, oh, yeah, Chad, Chad, Chad. Well, they got the most to lose because they were there when J.J. Valo was killed. Zuluma Pastenas. Another complainer. Married to the murderer.

Married to the murderer of J.J. Valo. Married to the murderer of Tiley Ryan. Married to the murderer of Charles Vallo. And married to the attempted murderer of Branden. End in Boudreau. Excuse me. Brenda Dye ordered the autopsy. That said no autopsy.

Emma Murray agreed. And then said, my dad didn't say anything one way or the other. Chad wasn't trying to hide anything. Steve Schultz, no bruising. The bruising on Tammy's body, eight bruises on one arm from the book fair carrying the books. Emma talked about that. One bruise on the other with one up here.

You carry a book in your arm. You leans against your chest on one point. about eight bruises on the other arm. There's no asphyxiation here, folks. You heard Dr. Raven saying, 600 pounds would have to sit on your chest to smother you the way they're suggesting. No marks on the neck, no indication of anything else.

This was not homicide. Steve Schultz, Chad's a good guy. He strayed, and he did have an affair, folks. He had an affair. But the affair doesn't mean he killed anybody. And maybe there was a plan. You tell me that you're having an affair with someone and you don't start discussing the possibility of a future, having a future. Spending time together in the future, that doesn't mean you're going to murder.

Reasonable doubt. Motive Alex Cox. Lori and Alex, that's for all the trouble. You don't go being married for 29 or 30 years with nothing as much as a speeding ticket on your record. And then you marry someone who, what are you afraid of me? And five husbands later? no DNA. These officers failed this investigation. They absolutely failed in their investigation looking up the facts of this case. Folks, if there is reasonable doubt, and there is reasonable doubt,

you must, according to the judge's instructions, return a verdict of not guilty. I am respectfully asking all of you to return a verdict of not guilty. All right. Thank you, Mr. Prior. That will conclude the defense closing argument, then. Does the state intend to offer a rebuttal closing? Yes, Your Honor. The state is permitted a rebuttal closing argument. Is that going to be you again, Ms. Blake? All right, Ms. Blake, then if you'd like to have the state's rebuttal argument, you can do so now. Thank you, Your Honor. Ladies and gentlemen, counsel talked to you about some jury instructions, and I want to talk to you a little bit about them as well. you are going to get the official jury instructions from the judge, and in fact, you've already received those. As counsel talked about during jury selection, we also talked about jury instructions, and we talked about that that's what you would agree to follow in this case.

I want to go over a couple of those with you. Instruction number 18. Counsel went over that with you, but I want to go through it again briefly. aiding and abetting is defined as before or during the commission intentionally aiding, assisting, facilitating, promoting, encouraging, counseling, soliciting, inviting, helping, or hiring another to commit a crime with the intent to promote or assist in its commission. If you find any one of those acts occurred, any one of those things, again, when we're talking about principal to first degree murder, when we are talking about conspiracy, you don't have to find that the defendant actually committed the physical act to end someone's life. You have to find that he did one of those other things that we just talked about. When we talk about reasonable doubt, again, you have a jury instruction. However, reasonable doubt is commonly defined as a doubt that would cause a reasonable person to hesitate to act. Emphasis on reasonable. It's not any doubt.

It is not a mere possible or imaginary doubt. It is a doubt based on reason and common sense. And again, you have that jury instruction. The state absolutely recognizes we have the burden of proof in this case. We told you that from the beginning. beginning, we're not shying away from that. It is our burden. And the standard is beyond a reasonable doubt. And again, that's not a mere possible or imaginary doubt. It's based on common sense. I also want to talk to you a little bit about the conspiracy instruction. You have several of those. In this case,

we have three counts of conspiracy to commit first-degree murder. When you look at that conspiracy instruction, at the very bottom, it'll say that you have to find each and every element. What I want to distinguish because I think it can get a little confusing at times is one of the elements says that you have to find one overt act. You don't have to find every overt act. You have to find every element. And I think it's number six within that instruction that will list out the overed acts. And again, for a conspiracy, it requires that there be a plan to commit a crime and then that just one of the actors commit one overt act. Not every actor has to commit one, not every overt act has to be committed. Which brings us to jury instruction number 20.

And counsel talked to you about this when it comes to an agreement. And I would highlight that in instruction number 20, criminal conspiracy is defined as two or more persons combining or conspiring to commit any crime or offense prescribed by the laws of the state of Idaho. And one or more of such persons does any act to affect the object of the combination or conspiracy. Conspirators need not agree upon every detail. The agreement may be established in any manner, sufficient to show an understanding of the parties. This episode sponsored by Forkful. Most meal delivery services promise healthy food, but look closer, and you'll often find

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It may be shown by evidence of an oral or written agreement, or it may be implied from the conduct of parties. I think that's important here. Counsel talked to you and kept trying to highlight and say, there's no agreement in the text messages. There's no agreement saying we're going to kill anyone. I would disagree with that. And we're going to go through some text messages again. However, there doesn't have to be a written agreement. Again, it can be implied. So I'd ask you to keep that in mind and when you go back to deliberate, really look at those jury instructions.

As counsel said, it is the judge that controls the instructions. It is the judge that controls the law in the courtroom. Counsel talked to you about Emma Murray and the wind searches. We also talked about the wind searches. It's a listed overt act. on September 8th of 2019, Chad Daybell's Gmail email address was searching South Southwest Wind. It was the day before Tiley Ryan is believed to have been taken to Chad Daybell's property. And if you recall, I ask Emma about that, that she just happened to do it the same day Tiley went missing. But what I'd also ask you to remember is Emma Marie talked to you all about how she wanted to see her mom's autopsy results.

And she told you how law enforcement threatened her. You can't see it unless you sit down for an interview. And I'd ask you to remember when Detective Maddingly came in. And we played a recording. The recording was a depiction of the interaction between Detective Maddingley and Emma Murray. And I'd ask you to remember that in that interaction, Detective Maddingly specifically tells Emma, I just want to share the autopsy results with you.

I think you're entitled to see him. Not saying what he said verbatim. It's an exhibit if you want to listen to it. But he was very clear with Emma. He wasn't trying to interview her. He told her, you don't need to sit down for an interview. And yet when Emma was on the stand, she said the only way she could see those autopsy results was if she sat down for an interview.

That's not what the recording showed. And I'd ask you to keep in mind to Jason William came and testified. And one of the things Jason talked about is that he and Chad had been friends. Jason is married to Tammy's sister. Jason indicated Chad made a statement to him along the lines of, my kids know how to keep a secret. counsel talked to you about Charles Valo. And he talked about that charges are not being pursued against Charles Valo. But if you recall what Detective Duncan said is law enforcement absolutely recommended charges. And what Detective Duncan said is that homicides are never a closed deal. Counsel wants you to believe that there was evidence presented that Tiley witnessed or saw what happened to charge.

You rely on your recollections, what you all saw and heard, and what you recall is what you consider in this case. Arguments of counsel are not evidence. But I would indicate I don't recall hearing that. I don't think there's any evidence whether Tiley actually witnessed the homicide of Charles Vallow. But what I would ask you to consider is what we do know, because counsel also brought up Brandon Budrow and brought up Chad doesn't have charges pending for Brandon Budro. He does not. Chad's not here on trial for the death of Charles Valo or Brandon Budrow. But keep in mind what we know. Chad Daybell labeled Brandon Budro dark. Alex Cox went down to Arizona in Tiley's Jeep after Tiley was

already gone and took a shot at Brandon Boudro. Chad labels people dark. Chad determines death percentages or when someone's time is up and Alex believes Chad 100%. Alex does what Chad asks of him. What do we also know? Chad labeled Charles Dark. In fact, three different entities were named by Chad as having taken over Charles. And keep in mind the facts that we do know. On June 29th of 2019, Charles confronted Lori about the affair. On July 1st of 2019, Charles said, I'm going to go and meet with Tammy she deserves to know.

And 10 days later, Charles is dead. Alex shot and killed him. Chad was on the phone with Lori texting just before Charles arrived. Chad was on the phone with Lori throughout the day, and Chad called the mortuary about how to get Charles. cremated and sent to Louisiana. Lori and Alex weren't the ones labeling people dark in the messages. Lori and Alex weren't the ones assigning death percentages. And you saw the message from Lori telling Alex, we, she and Chad, were trying to figure out how to fully get rid of zombies and then they

would let Charles know or Alex know. Alex wasn't the one making those determinations. Chad was. and when it came to Tiley, also remember, Alice Gilbert said Chad told her, Tiley didn't like me. Counsel talked to you about Regan Price hearing a gunshot. And again, you go off your recollection

and your understanding of the testimony. I don't know, I don't recall Regan saying a specific date or time. But what I would indicate is counsel says, well, he shot a raccoon on the morning of September 9th. I would remind you, we don't know the cause of death for Tiley Ryan because she was burned. We do know, and we saw the slide, that Alex Cox or a device associated with him was on the Daybell property the morning after Tiley was last seen alive.

And we saw the location data. It doesn't just put him on Chad's property. It puts him by where Tiley's body was found. It puts him by the pet cemetery by the burn pit. Chad sends a message that morning around the same time about burning limbs and debris. But he wants you to believe that somehow Tiley's body was buried somewhere else. Alex just happened to be up there that day at the same time, in the same place that Tiley's body was ultimately found.

But she must have been moved. Alex went to the apartment where Tiley was staying. Alex received a phone call from Chad, and Alex went to Chad's property on September 9th of 2019. There was talk about these tools and looking at the exhibits, and I encourage all of you to look at any exhibits that you want to. You're the finders of fact. They are there for your review.

But what I would remind you is Agent Daniels was asked about those tools, and he kept saying and indicated he didn't see what dirt or what counsel was talking about when being asked questions about the dirt on those handles. Agent Daniels was very clear about how they ran that search scene. It was very clear about partitioning things off. And you heard from multiple officers about the intricacies of that body recovery, about how many agencies and investigators were involved. There was no evidence, no testimony that anyone on scene took those tools and used them.

In fact, it was the opposite. There was no testimony, no indication that any investigator went and took tools out of Chad Daybell's property to dig up those kids. I'd also remind you, Agent Daniels was very clear about Chad Daybell's house having an upstairs. He was asked about that several times. He was very clear. There was an upstairs. And I remind you on June 9th, there was an audio recording played of Chad and Emma talking. And there was an indication of Chad saying,

you can go ahead and take the mattress out of the upstairs. Again, on January 23rd, Chad places a call to Alex. Alex then goes to Chad's property. And we see a device or Alex at the daybell property on the morning of September 23rd, the day after JJ's last seen alive. And he's not just on the property. He is where JJ is found. He gets a call from Chad and he goes up there. Council talked to you about Melanie Give and David Warwick being there the last time

JJ's seen alive. I would remind you, you heard from 8. Agent Hart, and you heard how he went through Lori's iCloud accounts, and there were thousands of messages. A lot of data, a lot of information. And what didn't he find? He didn't find messages from Melanie Gibb saying, Tiley and JJ were dark, or that Tammy was dark. He didn't find messages from Melanie Gibb saying what anyone's death percentage was. He didn't find messages for Melanie Gibb or David Warwick indicating anything like that. He didn't find messages from Melanie Gibb or David Warwick to Lori about any type of a plan.

Melanie and David both testified. They left the morning of the 23rd. They did not go to the Daybell property. In fact, if you recall, David testified he wanted to see JJ again. Lori didn't let him. In addition, if you recall, Ian Polowski had made some recordings at the request of law enforcement. He was trying to help law enforcement locate the kids. In those recordings, there are several times where Chad and Lori are on the recording with Melanie and Ian in one of the calls Alex and Zulema are present as well.

And in that call, they talk about Melanie Gibb. They're upset with her. why are they upset with her? Because she's going to go to the police and tell them the truth. And Lori's own words, three things are going to happen. She's going to basically pay for it in the afterlife because she has knowledge. She's out of our group. And the cops aren't going to believe her now that she's telling the truth.

What's key there, she's telling the truth. And what was Melanie Gibbs' truth? She never had the kids. Counsel talked to you about Lori making a comment about going to to live with Melanie Gibb. That comment would have been made on November 26th of 2019 when Rexburg Law Enforcement responded to the apartment trying to do a welfare check on JJ Valo.

Remember at that time, Melanie Gibb had been told that JJ was with Kay by Lori. When Chad called her that day, she asked him, Kay doesn't have JJ and Chad said no. Chad knew JJ wasn't with Kay. There was no indication that Lori had any plans to move with Melanie. And in fact, at that point, JJ and Tiley were gone. Where did Melanie, well, where did Lori actually go?

She didn't go to Melanies. She went to Hawaii with Chad. And in fact, with both Tiley and JJ, both of them were last seen shortly after it was confirmed that Lori was receiving their social security payments. Chad is the one who determined if someone was dark. Chad is the one who determined death percentages. The kids were buried on Chad's property.

Chad called Alex both mornings before Alex showed up. Counsel also talked to you about the fact Alex is not shy about shooting people. Counsel talked to you about he shot Charles Valo. He shot at Brandon Boudreau. but remember on October 9th when there's the attempted shooting of Tammy Alex had gone and purchased dark clothing including a dark face mask Alex had a Grendel 6.5 remember Tammy's description the man stood there looking at me just pulling the trigger just shooting at me

this wasn't someone that mistook Tammy or Chad and you heard testimony from Garth daybell And first, Garth said, at the time of the attempted shooting, Tammy was the one driving the dodge. And upon a little further questioning from counsel, he switched that. At a minimum, what stayed consistent with the testimony was Tammy did in fact use that dodge. Tammy was the one confronted by a gunman. Tammy was the one that had someone standing there pulling a trigger at her. Not Chad.

In fact, you heard testimony, there was no. report by Chad ever made, at least to the Fremont County Sheriff's Office, about anyone attempting to harm him. No report made that he was concerned or had any fear of Alex Cox. In fact, after Alex shot and killed Charles Valo in July, Chad was back down there visiting with Alex and Lori, first part of August. And during that visit, that's when he gave Alex a blessing that Alex should move to Idaho. Doesn't sound scared of Alex. And we talk about some of the things Chad told people.

And we'd heard a little bit of a conversation that he had with Jason William. And I think on that, Paul, we had it as December 18th of 18. And that actually would have been December 18th of 2019. So you knew Gibb placed a call on December 8th of 2019 to Chad and Lori, and Lori tells her JJ's safe. And on December 18th of 2019, they have a conversation with Jason William. And in that conversation, Chad tells him it's just a simple situation. Chad was with Lori when she talked to Gibb.

Lori was with Chad when they talked to Jason. A simple situation. Know where JJ is. You heard also from Emma Murray that her dad told her the kids were safe and it would all be explained or cleared up in due time. What you never hear is Chad reporting anything to law enforcement about these kids being missing, never reporting anything to law enforcement about fear of Lori Valo or Alex Cox. What we do see is continued phone contact between them. We hear of continued interactions in person between those individuals.

and we hear repeatedly how Alex and Chad have a close relationship. Melanie Polowski said, Alex looked to Chad like a big brother, would do what he asked. And then counsel also talked to you about Tammy's autopsy. We talked about Dr. Christensen not reaching out to the kids to get medical information. You heard from multiple law enforcement officers. The kids wouldn't talk to them. There weren't any reports to provide. because the kids didn't talk to law enforcement.

You heard Dr. Christensen talk about what he did review, medical records, multiple reports. And counsel talked about some of his experts as well. And first one, Dr. Raven. What Dr. Raven talked to you about was that she reviewed a handful of documents, a handful of records that were provided to her by counsel. She didn't review a significant amount of information, but most telling maybe, she didn't even review any medical records.

Dr. Marsden and Dr. Christensen reviewed medical records. They reviewed reports. They looked at the circumstances surrounding the death in reaching their conclusion. And again, they were both firm, cause of death, asphyxiation, manner of death, homicide. council talked to you about Patrick Eller, didn't find location data for Chad. You heard from Detective Stubbs about how Chad had done searches on how to shut off location data and also at one point had cleared his location data. Chad knew how not to be found, how not to be located.

Dr. Bartolink had determined that he couldn't rule out that Tiley could have been burned into hours depending on what kind of accelerant was used and then dr ham pinkian we talk about the dna what i'd remind you the state talked to you about the hairs and the DNA as well for conspiracy and for principal there is no requirement that the defendant actually committed any physical act to end anyone's life and counsel talked to you about coroner die saying Chad was kind of indifferent on the autopsy but I would remind you that deputy coroner Wilmore Samantha William Heather Daybell all indicated Chad told them he didn't want to get an autopsy or he wasn't going to Steve Schultz was brought up counsel talked about how he said Chad was a good guy I remind you Steve Schultz is the one

that after finding out there was not going to be an autopsy and how quick the funeral was, said he turned to Jason William and said, do you think he killed her? And law enforcement talked to you, several of them, Agent Hart was one, about how they did follow up on leads.

And Agent Hart explained they didn't want to get blinders. So if tips came in, if it was out of the state, the FBI generally followed up on it, If it was in-state, local law enforcement generally did. Tips were followed up on. This wasn't a case where law enforcement had blinders. They talked to you about that, and you heard a lot.

They would go where the evidence led. Tammy was found dead in Chad's house. The kids were found dead in his yard. You go where the evidence leads. Counsel also talked to you about Chad just talking about zombies. Chad just talking about these things. Chad wasn't just talking about zombies. Chad was saying if someone was a zombie, they had to die.

And people that Chad labeled zombies that were obstacles that were in his way of being with Lori or that he could get financial gain from, those were the zombies that actually died. Zombies is designated by Chad. And there was an indication that these were just messages that Chad was exchanging about people being light and dark or people's death percentages. They were just messages that resulted in three people dying. When we talk about whether or not there was a plan, this mission included being with him and they would progress together as translated beings. The full plan wasn't yet completely clear. full plan to be together

is there a perfectly orchestrated plan to take the children children being j j and tyley chad's response there is a plan being orchestrated for the children what happened to the children they were found dead in his yard we're so close to the finish line what finish line getting rid of all earthly obstacle all earthly relatives that were in the way of he and chad

of he and Lori being together. We are surrounded by celestial relatives that are simply obstacles. I want to be with you. That is my greatest hope and dream. Looks like Kauai a lot. Hopefully we will be there someday soon together.

That is the plan. And when counsel talks to you about Alex, maybe going after Chad, this is in November. The picture's taken in August when Alex travels back with Chad. But remember that patriarchal blessing given in November.

Powerful goddesses were needed to be, and you progressed and were selected by the Savior himself to be part of the fourth creation. Great warriors were needed. In that creation, powerful goddesses were needed to be protected, and you were selected to help protect your sister and you helped her in numerous probation as a defender you have a special bond even from the pre-mortal world

you connected there and as she grew in power you were right there beside her all Chad Daybell it is November 24th,

2019, Sunday afternoon, by 15 p.m. We are going to give Alex Lamar Cox a patriarchal blessing. Alexander Lamar. Alexander Lamar Cox

on this special day, I lay my hands upon your head to give you a patriarchal blessing as part of a the member of the Church of the Firstborn that you have earned the privilege to be a member of, you have already assisted us in ways that can never be repaid. You will continue to do so as you move forward in this. Alex had already helped them in ways they could never repay.

And when there's talk of a plan, Chad talks about the perfectly, orchestrated plan for the kids. He talks about the plan for he and Lori to be together unencumbered by earthly obstacles, earthly relatives. Chad says who's dark. Chad says death percentages. And three bodies are located in his house or on his property. Three bodies that belong to people that were obstacles for him getting what he wanted, that were obstacles for he and Lori to end up together in Hawaii, just the two of them. It's built in July 15th.

So you shouldn't have any bills to worry about. Yeah, I'm not coming back. So all that stuff that's in. That is BodyCam from June 9th. I think it says June 9th, 24. That would have been June 9th of 2020. On June 9th of 2020, the bodies of Tiley Ryan and J.J. Valo were discovered on Chad's property. Chad's response, I'm not coming back. Ladies and gentlemen, I ask you to hold the state to our burden. Review the jury instructions. Apply your common sense.

review the testimony, give it the weight you think it's due, the testimony and the evidence in this case. Thank you. All right. Thank you, Ms. Blake. That will conclude then the closing arguments of counsel. Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, the next thing we are going to take up is to draw numbers of the alternate jurors. We do have 17 jurors here present, so there are going to be five alternates. I am going to have a random draw of those five alternates.

And when you have your number drawn, I'll ask each of you to please just briefly stand and then retake your seat so that council that we've identified who those alternates would be also for the assistance of the bailiffs. Once the number is drawn for an alternate, then those jurors will be designated as alternates, but your jury service is not necessarily over.

In the event, a juror were to become ill or is excused for any other reason during deliberations, an alternate would return and deliberations would start over. So as alternate jurors, I'll also mention that because of the proceedings and the nature of the rules here, you will be sequestered until the conclusion of the trial. And as we draw these alternates, I do just want to make a comment that the court certainly appreciates as I'm sure the parties, the exemplary performance you've all had thus far as jurors in this case through a long trial getting to this point of deliberations. So with that being said, I am going to request Madam Clerk. If you would hand me the box that has the randomized numbers of the jurors, then I will have the clerk. just randomly draw out of the box your numbers. And again, as your numbers read, please just stand up briefly and then take your seat. And then I'll give you further instructions before the bailiffs are sworn in.

Madam Clerk, please draw the first number. Juror number six, red card 686. We'll draw the second alternate now. Juror number 16, red card number 1577. Next, have the third alternate drawn. Chair number 18, red card number 1382. This will be the fourth alternate. Chair number 17, red card 1271.

And this is the fifth, correct? Sure, number 13, red card 751. All right, thank you. That is the designation then of alternate jurors. As I mentioned, you will be sequestered for the time being while the jury deliberates. You may be called upon to additionally serve. You'll be advised if and when that happens. And you must continue to abide by admonitions of the court given previously about not discussing the case or investigating the case in any way until the matter has concluded.

So at this time, the next matter will take up as the swearing end of bailiffs who will be in charge of holding the jury until, a verdict's been reached, including during sequestration. I am going to note on the record because of the number of bailiffs and marshals necessary for sequestration and with scheduling, there were three additional bailiffs sworn in on the record yesterday. So three have been sworn previously. The additional three that are here will now be sworn at this time. If you would each place raise your right hand, I'll have Madam Clerk administer the oath

to these three bailiffs. You always swear or affirm that you will keep this jury together in some quiet and convenient place. You will not suffer any communication to be made to them, nor make any communication to them yourself on any subject connected with the trial at this case, except to ask if they have agreed upon a verdict. And upon their agreeing upon a verdict, you will return them into open court or upon the order of the court to help you got.

All right. Thank you, gentlemen. And so deputies homesbation Costello have now been sworn additionally as bailiffs in this case. At this time then, I will ask everyone to rise. We'll send the remaining jurors to the jury room to begin their deliberations. And the court may address them regarding scheduling for the rest of the day or through the bailiffs through a message. So that will conclude the trial, but for the deliberations to commence at this time. Thank you.

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