Hidden True Crime - CHAD DAYBELL TRIAL: Explosive Testimony Buries Chad

Episode Date: May 6, 2024

In this episode, we're delving into the powerful testimonies of Kay Woodcock, Sheila Daybell, and Heather Daybell on May 2, 2024, Day 15 of Chad Daybell's Trial. Join Hidden True Crime for an exclusive journey through Chad Daybell's trial, from its inception to its conclusion. Host Lauren Matthias, a seasoned courtroom observer, provides daily updates via lunch lives on YouTube and comprehensive summaries right here on Hidden: A True Crime Podcast. Lauren Matthias, a former television reporter with a decade of experience, and her husband, Dr. John Matthias, a respected criminal psychologist, bring their expertise to Hidden True Crime. They have closely followed the Lori Vallow and Chad Daybell case since 2019. In 2020, they launched their first season: 'Beyond the Veil,' a psychological exploration of the doomsday murders and self-proclaimed prophet. A podcast that started at their dinner table has now become the dynamic husband-and-wife duo of Dr. John Matthias, a forensic psychologist, and Lauren Matthias, an investigative journalist, delving into the psychological facets of unthinkable crimes every week. Thank you for your support through sponsorships, subscribing, listening, and becoming a Patreon member at Patreon.com/HiddenTrueCrime Our Sponsors:* Check out Acorns: https://acorns.com/HIDDENTRUECRIME* Check out Acorns: https://acorns.com/HIDDENTRUECRIME* Check out Armoire and use my code HIDDENTRUECRIME for a great deal: https://www.armoire.style* Check out Effecty and use my code HIDDENTRUECRIME for a great deal: https://www.effecty.com* Check out Happy Mammoth and use my code HIDDENTRUECRIME for a great deal: https://happymammoth.comSupport this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/hidden-a-true-crime-podcast1836/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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premium materials like European linen, organic cotton, but they cut out the middleman. So everything is priced way lower than you'd expect. Refresh. your every day with luxury you can actually use. Head to quince.com slash hidden true crime for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. That's quince, quince, ui and c e.com slash hidden true crime for free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com slash hidden true crime. Hey, jems, what a week in court we had, especially on Thursday. Get this. On Thursday, we heard from our friend and fellow jam Heather Daybell, who also happens to be Chad Daybell's sister-in-law, to Chad's own mother, Sheila Daybell, plus JJ's grandma Kay Woodcock. I'm here to

catch you up on this week's Chad Daybell trial, because there is more, so much more. But first, I realize that many of you are probably waiting for Dr. John's analysis of this trial. It's just a guest from a couple of negative Apple reviews. But please know that John and I have divided our workload to cover this case the best we can in a way that hidden true crime does best. While he's the psychologist, I'm the journalist committed to cover every day in court and see this case through until justice is served. John is busy holding down the fort and taking care of our family all alone. I am so grateful for him until I bring it all back to him. And then, of course, he will break it down for all of us. Hidden true crime hasn't lost our way. Negative Apple reviewer, quite the opposite. We have just become more

committed to bring every aspect of this case to you from testimonies in court to Chad's mannerisms. John will be here really soon to pick apart Chad's shifty eyes and nervous computer scrolling. I promise. But thank you for being with us every step of the way and for any positive review you can leave during this time for our family. Truly, thank you. And thank you for understanding our commitment to this case. So with that, let's get to Thursday, May 2nd.

Kay Woodcock finally testified. She was able to set the stage and talked about bringing her biological grandson, JJ, home from the hospital and how she and Larry became his legal guardians. She shared how her brother Charles and his wife, Lori Ballo, were married, and how they asked to adopt JJ. And after several months of consideration, Larry and Kay decided that that was what was best for their beloved grandson. Now, I think that this backstory, even though we have heard it before, I think it really helped the jurors to put some puzzle pieces together because they have been sitting,

Kay and Larry is who I mean by they, they have been sitting in court every day. And the jurors, I'm not quite sure even know or have known who they are. So I'm glad that they finally understand who they are and why they are there. Kay also testified about how she had access to Charles's emails because she had helped Charles with his business and how she became the beneficiary of his life insurance policy before he was murdered. Kay also testified about Charles's sons learning about their dad's death

through a text from Lori. I'll never be able to get over this, but Lori refused to even call her stepson's to let them know that they had lost their dad. And how Kay didn't even know Charles was dead until she Googled Charles's name and saw the news story. We didn't know about his death until the 12th

because and the only reason we knew because Lori contacted Charles's two sons. She texted him to tell him their dad was dead. And then she wouldn't answer her phone. So Charles's oldest son, Cole, reached out to me and asked what is going on. Lori said, Dad's dead. And I said, no, no, that can't be right.

This is a joke or something. Because he was healthy as a horse. And sure enough, he's. My husband, for some reason, he Googled Charles's name and read that he was killed the day before. Kay told the court that Lori texted her at the end of 2019 after finding out Kay was the beneficiary to Charles's $1 million life insurance policy and not Lori. Kay stated, quote, all Lori did was send me a text at the end of 2019 when she found out I was the beneficiary for the life insurance saying, is that why you want JJ? I've got five kids and no money and you get everything. End quote.

Kay became emotional on the stand as she spoke of JJ's last birthday on May 17th, 2019, telling the court, quote, it's the last birthday we ever had with him. Do you recall the last time you saw J.J. Valwin person? Yes. When was that? It was the weekend of May 17th in 2019. Yeah. Where did you see him? Charles, he and Charles came to Lake Charles for the weekend. And we, actually, his birthday was May 25th.

We had a birthday party for him a little, like a week early. We had it at a pizza place and had his, had friends and cousins all come. and gave him his happy seventh birthday. The last birthday we'd ever have with him. Kay's last facetime with JJ was on August 10th, 2019, and she described Lori as evasive and not responding to any of the requests to see him or talk to him anymore.

Charles' memorial service in Louisiana was in August of 2019, and Kay had arranged with Lori for Kay to pick up JJ and Phoenix and bring him back to stay in Louisiana, Louisiana for a week with them and then take him back home. Kay bought tickets and everything was ready to go. Kate testified actually that after Lori found out about the life insurance policy, that was when Lori changed her mind and said no, JJ couldn't go to his dad's funeral,

his own dad. She said that they were moving to Hawaii and it would just be too much for JJ. Kay became very concerned about JJ's welfare, sensing the worst and realized that Lori had moved and had no idea where she went. So I wanted to ask you, did you ever contact law enforcement about JJ's whereabouts? Absolutely. I mean, that was the, once we knew Charles was dead, we knew he was in trouble because Lori didn't want JJ anymore. She didn't want Tyler anymore. She didn't want Charles anymore. Kay testified that she hired a private investigator with Brandon Boudreau. Now, Brandon, by the way, has also testified about nearly losing his life when a bullet shot through his Tesla's window and how he went into hiding with his kids.

So I also feel that this part of case testimony really helped the jury put together some puzzle pieces, realizing that Kay and Brandon were in contact and trying to find the kids and learn more about who Chad Daybell was. But it turns out that Kay might have been the best investigator because it was Kay who found out Lori was in Rexburg, Idaho. She was able to actually log into Charles' Amazon account and see his purchases. purchases, of course, made after his death, and Kay found the address for Lori's townhome on Pioneer Road.

He found this on November 8, 2019, and the Amazon purchases, oh, get this, wedding rings and wedding clothes. Why did those items catch your attention? Because I know that Tammy passed away October the 19th, and if, and Lori was obviously involved with Chad, day bell and it was just it was just

mind blowing that they were looking at wedding rings before Tammy's death judge I'm going to object calls for speculation so the Amazon purchases though were made on October 2nd 2019 before of course Tammy's murder and death and during case testimony

Chad didn't look at her you should know this instead he fiddled with a pen on his desk. This is his favorite nervous habit, or he used his computer mouse to scroll and look preoccupied. And really, I do think he scrolled to look preoccupied because he is always scrolling on his computer. He certainly didn't look like he was listening to Kay. That much is sure. After Kay Woodcock concluded her testimony, Sheila Daybell took the stand, Chad's own mother. I cannot imagine how it would fill to testify at your son's own murder trial. And my heart went out to her.

I choose to give her grace. She said very little, but she certainly got a good timeline. And she was also able to share that when she met Lori for the first time, noticing that they had rings on their hand, she asked if Lori had any children. And Lori's response to Sheila Daybell was that her daughter had died. Did you and Jack travel to Idaho? We did.

Did you meet with Chad at a Texas roadhouse in Idaho Falls? Yes. Was it dinner time, lunchtime? Dinner time. Okay. Now, you and Jack met Chad at the Texas Roadhouse. Was somebody else there? Yes.

Who was that? Lori Vallow. Had you ever met Lori Vallow before? No. During that dinner, did Chad tell you and Jack anything about his relationship with Lori Vallow? I don't think he did as much as Lori did. Okay. What did Lori tell you?

Well, she just, we noticed that they had these rings on and my husband said, are you engaged? And they said, no, we're married. Were you surprised? Yeah. Did they tell you when they had gotten married? No. Now, on November 13th of 2019, this was approximately a month after Tammy's death. Mm-hmm.

Is that why you were surprised? Yeah, I was. Okay. Did Chad or Lori tell you anything about whether or not Lori had been married before? Chad didn't. Did Lori? Yes. What did Lori tell you?

Well, that she'd been married before? Yes. Well, she just said that her husband had recently died. Did she say how he had died? Heart attack. When Lori said that her husband had died of a heart attack, what did Chad say, if anything? I don't remember any specific mention. Okay.

And did Lori or Chad say anything about whether or not Lori had children? She said she had a daughter that had died. Do you remember how old that daughter was? She didn't say a date at a time. Did she say anything about whether or not she had a young son? No. When Lori said that her daughter died, did Chad say anything that you recall? I can't. No, I don't think.

At the end of that dinner, did you believe that Lori had a daughter who had died? Yes. Okay. I think that was a really important part of the testimony because it matched up to what Alice Gilbert also stated. We're going to get to Alice Gilbert later, but Alice also had the same experience where Chad told Alice that Lori had a daughter. daughter that had recently died. Now, Sheila is really important to me because our very first podcast, our original podcast, Beyond the Vail, the first episode, I was sitting there talking with Dr. John wanting him to answer questions about Lori Ballo and he said, no, no, no, first we need to talk

about Chad Daybell. Because Chad Daybell is what sets this whole thing in motion. And he explained to me that the first thing he wanted to talk about when it came to Chad Daybell was how little little, Chad mentioned his mother in his own autobiography. John had read Chad's book and noticed that the mom, Sheila, now we know, and had seen her on the stand, was only mentioned twice in Chad Daybell's book. That set the stage for John's assessment that there was maybe even some attachment issues with Chad or, as we know them, mommy issues. And then, dun dun, done, Heather Daybell, Chad's dark sister-in-law took the stand.

While Heather was on the list of witnesses when the grand jury indicted Chad DeBel, this was Heather's first time testifying in either of the trials. She never testified at Lurys. And this is the first time anyone has heard Heather speak since our three-part interview with her in 2022. Heather's husband Matt, Chad's brother, was also in the courtroom during her testimony, and he was also there to support his mother. In fact, Matt Daybell, Chad's brother, made a statement to me and to all of hidden true crimes gems,

letting us know that he was sitting in court for two days to support witnesses who would be testifying and to support Kay and Larry Woodcock. In an act of solidarity, Matt actually sat between Vicki Hoban, Tammy Daybell's aunt and Kay Woodcock. Larry Woodcock sat behind them. It was a powerful moment in court to see those three in a row together in solidarity.

Heather Daybell's testimony was powerful. And honestly, a lot of Heather, testimony sounded like our interview with her when we sat with her at our kitchen table, and she shared her story with us. It was very familiar. She explained why Chad moved to Rexburg and how she and Matt didn't want Chad to move near their family because of his beliefs that kept getting stranger and stranger. Will you please elaborate to the jury. What were the things that Chad was saying or teaching you that caused you the concerns? He indicated that there would be an earthquake that would be happening in 2015, and he was kind of making us aware and preparing

us for all of these end times events that were going to happen and cause a lot of destruction in Utah, in particular Salt Lake area. Did he explain to you why he believed those events would occur? Those were events that Julie Rowe had seen in a near-death experience, and so he had talked about those things with her as he published her book. And then he indicated he was seeing those things in vision as well. So Chad is someone who had expressed to you and your family, these visions that he had had? That he could see beyond the veil and see future events. Were there other things they explained to you that cause you concern other teachings in addition to that? At that point, it was mainly that. It was just these end of times events.

and when they would happen. Later, were there other teachings or things that he would say to you or your family that caused you concern? When he informed us, he was thinking of moving his family to Rexburg. In 2014, he or 15, whenever that was, it started, we actually had a conversation with him asking him exactly what it was he thought was going to happen. happen and we had a pretty detailed conversation. I'd like to pause you there, to the best you can recall, can you tell the jury, when did that conversation occur? That conversation was when they came out, Chad Tammy and some of their children came out

to Rexburg to look for homes. And Matt and I sat with Chad in our home. That would have been summertime 2015. And what happened in that conversation? It was asking him point blank to give us the details of why he felt he needed to make this move. And he indicated that and in particular the houses that he was looking at were very close to our home. And we had some concerns with that. he talked about, he told my husband and I that we would become great leaders in this gathering of people that would happen because of all the destruction in Utah,

that our land where we lived would help in that and that our home would become like a church or a temple. He was telling us those kinds of things. and that he felt like he needed to be in Rexburg with his family because the headquarters in South Lake of the church would end up having to move to Rexburg when all this destruction happened. Did he ever explain to you whether he had seen or believed that he would have any kind of a significant role in this? mainly just that he would be helping in this gathering of people with their tents and everything that he would be helping in that cause.

So based on what he was telling you, did he perceive his need to move to Rexberg to be something he could do to fulfill his role? Yes, that he had a part to play in that. Did you believe these visions or teachings at the time that Shadow Shepard No, I did not. And help the jury understand why was that a concern to you? If you didn't believe them, why was it concerning? Because he had let us know he was intending.

He was going to let people be knowing of this with Julie Rose book and trying to prepare people as all this destruction happened. That that's why he was coming and that he, he, he, felt that we were going to be helping in that cause. So further, if you don't believe them, why was there a concern that you had that he would be telling everybody about this? Because in the belief system I had at that time in the LDS church, just some average person doesn't get information specific like that to share with others. In my belief at the time, we had a prophet of the church that would let us know if we

needed to do anything to prepare for something like that. So in my understanding and how I had been taught, it wouldn't come through someone like Chad. So let me ask you this way. If you didn't believe these things, why do you need to care about it if he's outteach the stuff to people? Because my opinion was that was incorrect and that he was spreading that around to other church members. And that's, as I was taught, you don't do that. Okay. So, During this conversation that you were referring to in your home, did you ever confront Chad or tell him that you don't believe these things? I did. I told him that I wasn't feeling good about what he was saying and that I just, I did. I was very blunt. I just thought out said, I don't believe what you're seeing.

What was his reaction to you? Chad doesn't show a lot of reactions, so it was just okay. I was about it. He didn't argue or anything like that. Did you express concerns about whether or not he should move near you? Yes, Matt and I both did that. We decided years and years ago that we wanted to live apart from family. We do better that way as a couple and had made a home for ourselves in Rexburg. We'd been in the area 15 years at that point.

and we did express to him as he was looking at homes near us that we, if he needed to move to Rexburg, that was fine, please just move somewhere, not right in our neighborhood and not in our ward. Why was it important to you that he not moved in your neighborhood and ward? Because I didn't, I knew why he was coming, and I didn't want him trying to draw in people from my ward. and having people associate his close proximity to us that we were involved or agreed with him. Heather was able to explain how Chad was teaching all of this to his family and how Chad indicated that he would come home with these wild visions

and Tammy would actually roll her eyes at him. But Chad would tell Tammy to go and pray on it and that she would have to figure out that Chad was right. And that I want to say and just point out is emotional abuse. Yet it seems that all of Chad and Tammy's children believe Chad's visions, at least according to Heather's testimony. And she also testified that Chad tried to convince her and her husband, Matt, his brother, of his visions. And when that didn't work, Chad attempted to sell Heather's son on his visions. Can you imagine that? Chad, we want nothing to do with your visions.

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Watching her was when Heather explained this. Take a listen. The whole time he was explaining that, it felt scripted to me, like he was reading it or something. It just felt very scripted. It was the word that came to my mind, and it made me feel very uneasy. Did you say anything to him about that scripted feeling or anything else? I did not. I asked him if he was going to have an autopsy done to find out why she had passed.

And he said no, that a coroner had come and looked at Tammy and could clearly see that there was matter in her throat that she, that that's why she had died. She had coughed hard and thrown up and that had caused her death. So there was no need for an autopsy. And that was Chad's explanation to you? Sorry. Yes, it was. What else did you talk about in that conversation? He informed me that the funeral would be in two days.

And I said, well, Matt and I aren't even home. We're in Las Vegas. Can you wait so we can get home? Matt had another brother that was out of town as well. And just said, can you wait until we can all get home to be to the funeral? And he said, no, we're just going to get it done. What observations did you make, if any, at the funeral? The main thing I remember, it was the program was just Chad and his children, and the bishop spoke at the end.

And the thing that stuck out was the opening song was Put Your Shoulder to the Wheel. I have never heard that song used at a funeral. So that seemed strange to me. Related to that, at the time, were you serving a calling in the LDS church? I was. What was that calling you had? A stake relief society president. Having had that calling were funeral plans something you were familiar with?

Yes. So you were familiar with typical LDS culture and how they might proceed with the funeral? Yes. Why was it so unusual to pick that song, put your shoulder to the will? Because that song is describing, put your shoulder to the will, push along to your duty with the heart full of song. It's about working. It's just about work. So that was strange to me at a funeral. Anything else that you observed at the funeral that concerned you or you thought may have been unusual? Just watching chat as he spoke and maybe it's just the way that he cries, but he

seemed like he'd turn it on and turn it off and turn it on and turn it off the crying. So it to me came across this kind of disingenuous. And anything else? No. And had you attended the viewing the night before? I remember attending a viewing. I believe it was that morning. I'm not exactly sure on them.

But I did attend a viewing, yes. Thank you. Did you notice anything unusual at the viewing or concerning? Kind of just observing. Chad and his children. Again, it was strange to me that Chad could be smiling and seeing people and smiling and seemed to be doing well and then crying all of a sudden.

It just, it was a strange, his demeanor seemed strange to me. And side note, the way Chad stared at Heather while she shared these stories that I'm discussing, if Chad truly had any visionary powers, I think Heather would have just been sent to outer darkness during her testimony. Luckily, she is just fine because we know that Chad has no powers. But Chad staring at her was a really interesting moment during court because he went from refusing to look at her to steering at her.

Heather also set the record straight on the loft in Chad's house above the garage, which is why there are stairs in Chad's house. Now, why does this matter? It's been a contentious debate between the prosecution and defense for a, few days now. Stairs or no stairs in Chad and Tammy's house. The debate started with cousins of Tammy Daybells, Patty and Patty's daughter Hannah, who both testified in court about how Chad told them that he was sort of burning the midnight oil working in his office the night Tammy died, and that Chad had implied that Tammy may have maybe been alone in her bed at the time of death.

It's a weird story, and their stories do differ slightly, but they claim that Chad changed up the stories that they were told about who went upstairs or downstairs and left the other one. It's a strange twist to this narrative on the night Tammy died, which we will get to all of that very soon. And I too have another episode in the works all about the stairs and why I think they are so very important. But after Patty and Hannah's testimony, during cross-exam, Chet's defense attorney, John Pryor, did something really strange. He cast doubt on their story by telling the gallery that Chad's house was only one floor. It was only one story.

Oh, and by the way, Tammy's cousins also testified that at Tammy's funeral, Chad told the congregation she was lazy, not easy to live with, and had depression. So it's no wonder that John Pryor was trying to cast out on their stories, but it's strange that he picked stairs of all the things, because there are certainly stairs in Chad Daybell's house. and Heather made it clear that stairs do exist in Chad and Tammy's house describing the loft. The jury was paying close attention to Heather's riveting testimony. And then when Heather started talking about how she learned about Chad and Lori's marriage

from Alice Gilbert, a woman in their congregation, the jurors were all ears. Heather explains that when she learned this from Alice Gilbert, she was so shocked that her brother-in-law had already remarried, that she sent a text to Chad and Tammy's kids. Those are her nieces and nephews. She wanted to send them support. And then that was the moment Chad called Heather. He was upset with me and told me I had been a problem for him his whole life.

And I asked him, who was this person you've married? And he explained, her name was Lori. Would I like to meet her? And I said, no, I would not. And then I asked him what happened to Tammy. And he said she died of a pulmonary embolism because she had gained 40 pounds. How did you react to that when he gave that explanation? I remember being so flustered by that explanation because he had given me a different one weeks before that I was just upset.

And he indicated to me I'm going to be living in Hawaii. so you don't have to worry about me anymore. And that was the end of the conversation. So more body shaming from Chad. And just to remind everyone, Tammy was absolutely fit and thin when she died. And even if she gained 40 pounds, I'm pretty certain that doesn't mean you die at 49. Because many of us would be dead in America if that were true, right?

Heather knew, as would most, that it seemed absolutely cruel to his children and the legacy of his wife to get married so fast. But Heather explained to the judge that she was known as the family potter. Now, I love this part. Listen to the judge and make sure we all understand what Heather was called. Anything else of note that you could remember that occurred in that conversation? He did call me a potter. I remember that as well.

than that. I think that's it. He didn't explain what he meant by that. I've been called that before by family members. Hot stir-stir. Of course, the judge was speaking to the court reporter who couldn't understand what Heather said, but I love that moment where the judge makes sure we all understand what a pot-stir is. Heather explained that she had not spoken to Chad and Tammy's children since kids were found in his yard. And I think this was a good thing for the judge.

jury to hear as well because many of Chad's children will be allegedly testifying for the defense. At least that's what John prior told us in his opening statements. And so the jury will realize now that the family does not all agree. Like this family is not aligned with Chad's children. Heather is not speaking to them. And I hope that helps set the stage for what the jurors will hear when Emma or Garth or whoever else might come to the stand. All right. And then Julie Roe gets brought up in Heather's testimony. Take a listen to what Heather says about Julie Roe, a woman who had near-death experiences whose books Chad published. Okay. So in 2014, the books became an issue. Is that right? No. In 2014, Julie Roe's book became the issue that he was publishing.

Okay. And we're moving to an area that I intended to go into because Julie Roe was one of these people who went around the, in particular, like three particular states, and she preached about preparing the people. Would that be fair? You could use that phrase. She was not associated with preparing the people to group. Right. But yes, that was the purpose of what her books were, to prepare people for what was coming. Okay. And she spoke primarily to people of the LDS faith. Would you agree with that? I would agree with that. In fact, she would put on these conferences and her primary audience were people who shared that the LDS faith, correct? Correct. So was she somehow looked down upon because she was doing this? By someone such as myself who didn't agree with her

book, but there were quite a few people in Rexburg who were listening. And she was, She was filling conference halls giving her speeches, was she not? She filled the tabernacle in Rexburg, yes. Okay, and it's a conference type center, yes. Okay, nothing to be guessed what I'm saying. And then this story you're about to hear is important. Take a listen at Heather Daybell explains the moment with Julie Roe and Chad Daybell at Heather's house. While Tammy is just left behind, Chad and Julie seem to have a vision.

You were concerned about Chad's association with Julie Rose. Is that correct? I was. And why were you concerned about that relationship? Again, because of what was contained in the book that he was publishing for her. And when I did observe them together, it was concerning to me their personal relationship. What do you mean by that? Judge, this is going beyond the scope of a rule. They seemed particularly close.

He brought her to my home on one occasion, and it made a few of us uncomfortable, myself. Uncomfortable. Speaking for yourself only, what do you mean by they were particularly close? Can you explain your observations? What I observed, he brought her to our home to show her our land, and it goes back to a river. And so they walked back, walked along this land, went back to the river. What I observed was the that Chad and Julie were communicating very close to each other. And Tammy and her children were kind of falling behind. It made me feel bad for Tammy that Chad appeared so close to Julie. One other testimony I want to talk about before signing off, Alice Gilbert.

I mentioned her already in this podcast, but let's talk about her a little bit longer because Alice was incredible. She testified at Lori's trial too. She and her husband taught were neighbors in the same ward or congregation as Chad and Tammy. And Alice and Tammy were actually really close friends. In fact, she and Tammy served in the women's organization and church together called the Relief Society. Alice Gilbert was the president. Tammy was her first counselor. And Alice and her husband Todd were actually even there the morning Tammy died.

There were some of the first people the family called to come over even before the bishop or the leader of the congregation was notified. And Alice had a really powerful testimony. She shared her shock at Tammy's death, the shock at meeting Lori, the shock of being told by Chaddy had married Lori, the shock that Chad's daughter had recently died, and then finding out that Lori had a daughter that was missing. But in my opinion, the smoking gun of Alice's testimony was when Chad asked Alice and Todd to mortgage their home

so that Chad could afford bail for his new wife. Alice then took on the role of the potster. Alice then became the potter. She looked at Chad and she asked, where is Lori's daughter? Where is Tiley? How many daughters does Lori have? And he said, one.

And I said, well, when we met you, you told me she had a daughter that passed away. And he said, no, I didn't. And I said, yes, you did. And then when I asked him about the missing children, and he said, it was a custody battle. So that's why I asked, how many daughters does she have? And then he denied telling me that.

So I asked him, where are the children? And I asked him, where's Tiley? You know, she's a teenager. So he said, doesn't she want a life? And come out and say, I'm the missing girl. I want a job and life and a boyfriend. And he just said, she didn't like people and she didn't like me. Did something stick out about those statements?

He said, didn't. So he used the past tense. He did. She didn't like people and she didn't like me. I think we know why Tiley lost her life. If you notice, these are all women we covered in today's episode, all women with such riveting testimonies in the trial of Chad Davis. Chad might blame women for everything wrong in his life.

Lori is so sexy, too sexy, so Chad couldn't help himself, but allow murdered children to end up buried in his yard. Tammy wasn't petite enough, so it's her fault that she had to die before the age of 50. And Tiley didn't like people, and Tiley certainly didn't like him. And that's why she was missing and burned and dismembered in his yard. Tiley also testified this week, perhaps one of the most important testimonies. of this week. I spoke to Tammy Debel's aunt Vicky, who told me that what she felt was this week's smoking gun came from Tiley. When investigators came upon the fire pit in Chad DeBel's

yard on June 9th, 2020 with a search warrant, they noticed something shimmering. They picked it up. It was a pura Vita charm. It belonged to Tiley, a necklace that she was wearing. Chad might have dubbed Tiley Dark, but Pura Vita means pure life. Her charm, a small smoking gun from beyond the grave. Chad's misogyny might be very real, but in a twist of fate or karma, if you'd prefer to call it, it will be women that see to it that Tammy, Tiley, and JJ all receive justice. I want to thank every woman who has testified in this trial so far. I'll remember this week of the week of Queens and the week of potstery and truth.

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