Hidden True Crime - CHAD DAYBELL TRIAL: The Piece of Evidence That Could Change Everything

Episode Date: May 20, 2024

On October 19th, 2019, Garth Daybell called 911 to report that Tammy Daybell died in her sleep; at least, that's what he tried to do. Instead, Chad Daybell grabbed the phone from him. However, there may be more to the story of what happened that morning than the many versions we've been told. Join Hidden True Crime as we follow Chad Daybell's trial from beginning to end. Host Lauren Matthias is in the courtroom daily, doing lunch lives on YouTube and summarizing each day and week right here on Hidden: A True Crime Podcast. Lauren Matthias was a television reporter for a decade and has followed the Lori Vallow and Chad Daybell case since 2019. She and her husband, Dr. John Matthias, a criminal psychologist, started Hidden True Crime in 2020 with their Season, 'Beyond the Veil,' a psychological deep dive into the doomsday murders and prophet. What started as a simple conversation at their dinner table became a captivating podcast. Join the dynamic duo of Dr. John Matthias, a forensic psychologist, and Lauren Matthias, an investigative journalist, as they delve into the psychological facets of unthinkable crimes every week. Their unique perspectives and in-depth analysis offer a fresh take on true crime storytelling. Thank you for your support through sponsorships, subscribing, listening, and becoming a Patreon member at Patreon.com/HiddenTrueCrime Our Sponsors:* Check out Acorns: https://acorns.com/HIDDENTRUECRIME* Check out Acorns: https://acorns.com/HIDDENTRUECRIME* Check out Armoire and use my code HIDDENTRUECRIME for a great deal: https://www.armoire.style* Check out Effecty and use my code HIDDENTRUECRIME for a great deal: https://www.effecty.com* Check out Happy Mammoth and use my code HIDDENTRUECRIME for a great deal: https://happymammoth.comSupport this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/hidden-a-true-crime-podcast1836/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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And a watch and tab on any plan. Only on Verizon. With new line on my plan. Service plan required for watch and tab. Additional terms apply. See Verizon.com for details. There has been a lot of talk about stairs during the Chad Daybell trial. whether or not there are or aren't stairs in Chad Daybell's house.

John Pryor, the defense attorney, claims there are no stairs or that it's listed as a one-story home and that any addition is sort of unfinished or attached to a garage. So I want to take everyone through some of the things I've discovered through watching the trial and how really there are stairs in Chad Daybill's house, but why do they matter? I think that's the question that needs to be explored and why stairs matter to the defense and why he wants to create a narrative that there might not be stairs. Let's throw out John Pryors, the cross with Hannah. Let's listen to that.

This is where the stairs became an issue and they were an issue. So Tammy was upstairs in her bedroom and then she went downstairs to go into an office to talk to Chad. Is that what you understood? Yes. Okay. Are you aware that this is a one-story home, ma'am? No, I've never been to their home. Okay.

And then after, again, when you were in the line with your mother, and you mentioned something about going downstairs, which downstairs were we going to? Again, I haven't been to their home. Okay. Nothing else, Judge. Thank you. She answered it perfectly.

It was a great way for prior to create doubt and confusion and make everyone doubt Hannah's testimony. But actually, to me, Hannah just became even more powerful because she's never even been to their house and she's just sharing exactly what she heard and up and a down and up and a down and up and a down. We know that John Pryor owns this house. So he certainly knows about the cozy cone,

which we've learned that it was called. Is it because it's attached the garage so that Pryor can get away with saying it's a one-story home? Is that what he's pulling there? And I do think it's interesting. I do want to point out that if somebody was up in the cozy cone that night and was meeting somebody, there is a door to go into the house right there. Circle that with your right there.

So again, we know that Alex Cox was parked at the church parking lot a couple miles away. And there is a door if Chad Deibel was in the cozy cone. Of course, the rest of the week, multiple times a day the prosecution did bring up. the home and that there are stairs in the home. But then there were a lot of arguments as well about what was in the home. Well, is there electricity? Like, John Pryor is really, really fighting this idea that people wouldn't sleep there. This is Ray Hermesio testifying at Lori Vallow's trial about coming over in June with a search warrant

to inform Chad that they were going to be searching his property. This was the day that they found the remains of Tiley and JJ. To Chad Daybell's residence at approximately seven in the morning. He went and made contact, knocked on the front door. Chad Daybell's son, Mark Daybell, answered the door. He had a bowl of cereal in his hand. He was eating cereal. It was early in the morning.

And we informed Mark why we were there and that we needed to speak with Chad Daybell. Okay. Then what happened? Mark told us that his dad, Chad, was still asleep and directed us to Chad's room, which is like a loft room that was above the garage area. So we walked us through the house and to the stairwell of Chad's room. There you go. Chad Daibald was certainly sleeping there after he got back from Hawaii. certainly a place he slept when Lori was in jail. I want to tell you my theory. I think that Chad Debel let somebody into the house

through the cozy cove and into the bedroom where Tammy DeBel was sleeping. This is where that I feel pretty certain about. We're going to get into a little bit of a speculation. We'll share some different theories. But let me just share your mind. I think that there might be some doubt encouraged with Pryor about where the master bedroom was

or who was sleeping with who. I have a feeling that Chad and Tammy were actually sleeping in separate rooms because Tammy knew about the affair and they were not even sleeping together. I do think that Chad Daybell, this was not Chad Daybell's office. I think that Chad Daybell's office was downstairs and that because he was sleeping separate from Tammy, he was trying to cover that up. And he told Hannah and kind of implied that the master

bedroom was upstairs because it was certainly a bedroom. I think in many ways the master bedroom might have been upstairs, his office downstairs, but he just, he didn't think anyone was going to look into this. Hannah had never been to the house. He didn't think Patty and Hannah would be testifying that it's a murder trial. He was not in trouble at this moment. So he was casually kind of telling them a story and wanted to make it look like he and Tammy weren't sleeping in separate bedrooms, that they'd never know that Tammy would be

downstairs. So right, he didn't really care. And I think he probably just threw that out there that like, yeah, we were going to bed in the master bedroom. But, but, you know, Tammy went down to my office and or blah, blah, blah, or I went down to my office or whatever. But I think that many maybe possibly even considered that the master bedroom was upstairs. Who knows, but maybe I think in just many ways Chad was just trying to cover up that they were sleeping together. John Pryor is really starting to set the stage and it's going to get really, really messy when his children testify. And they don't want people, he does not want people to know that there was a bedroom upstairs

and perhaps even the master bedroom. I think the master bedroom might have been upstairs. And I think we're going to get into some messy things about when Tammy Daybell died and somebody who possibly moved her body and where it was moved, et cetera, et cetera. and how someone could have gotten into the house. And why? I think the layout of this house and where Chad is sleeping is really important. And when Tammy died.

So Garth Daybell was working, we know, at a haunted house that evening. And he came home. And then his dad called for him to help move Tammy's body because Chad claimed that Tammy had fell or had like fallen out of the bed, like hours after she died. But the day after she died, like the coroners all thought she died at 1 a.m. And here's Julie Roe.

Julie Roe was really close to chat on the entire family. And she talked to Emma the day Tammy was found dead. They had a very long conversation. She has shared that in multiple podcasts. And they talked about multiple probation. all this stuff. And this is what she was told that morning that Tammy died. Julie, can I just pause you? Just since it's nagging at me, I think your listeners are going to wonder what you mean. You have regular communication with Tammy. What does that look like?

Yes. So Tammy Daybell passed away. The 911 call that Chad made. He made it early in the morning around six and the medical examiner thought that the time of death was about two in the morning for Tammy Debo on October 19th. I received a message from the head of my security team after I had taught a two-hour energy class in San Diego, letting me know that Tammy Debel had passed away, that Chad's oldest daughter Emma had called one of my friends who had gotten a hold of my head of security to notify us that this had happened. Now, I will go on record for saying that the first time that the spirit, the angels on the outside of Vell let me know that Tammy was going to pass away was in July of 2015, or excuse me,

June of 2015. Anyway, it just gets weird. And I'm not going to go into that other than saying. I just let it go longer. And I did not know how she was going to pass away. I could just see the end of the future. And that was basically our relationship every couple of days while we were working on the first two books. Yeah.

So anyway, I let that still go for a little bit because I was like, why not? She's a mess. But the point is, she said that Tammy died at 1 a.m. That they thought that she died at about 1 a.m. 2 a.m. We've also heard. If Chad was sleeping upstairs, he asked Garth to help. So there's a couple of options.

So Garth appeared on 40. hours. And here are some of the things that Garth said on 48 hours. In fact, why don't I why don't I play one of them and then read to you some things? And then let's figure this out. Let's try to process this together. And this is why, again, I think the stairs are important. I'll tell you why. And because I think John Pryor's best witnesses for the defense are these children. So, of 2019, Garth Daybell heard a loud thumb from his mother's bedroom. I just ran over and picked her up and put her back on the bed. I said to my dad, I said, I think she's dead.

When the coroner arrived, the Daybelt children say they were told. So that's the first time. Have we heard a thump once in trial? We have not. We have never heard about a thump and Garth going in there. So already some stories are twisting with these children. They're getting a little weird, right? Here's something else that Garth said during that 48 hours interview.

He said that his dad, after they discovered Tammy dead, that his dad was just pacing back and forth, Garth recall, just saying, why? How could this happen? Pointing at pictures on the wall. She can't be dead. Like, how could this be? What do we do? So first off, that's a really strange response to me.

You find your wife dead. You look at pictures and point them at the wall and then say, What do we do? Like call 911. I don't know at this point whose story is the right story. But let's say Garth is telling the truth for a second. I don't know who's, let's say Garth heard a thump. And he ran and he found his mom.

And then he, and then he alone puts her back in bed without his step. Where's, where's Chad? Chad would be upstairs. I don't know whose story is true or not. I'm just, let's go through all these different scenarios. scenarios. Chad would be upstairs. And if he did hear a thump, he probably heard that a lot earlier than 6 a.m. And if they're looking at pictures on the wall going, what do we do? No one's rushing to call 911.

And it's also Garth finding her and saying, Dad, I think she's dead. That would be Garth saying, Dad, I think she's dead, meaning Chad wasn't yelling for Garth, like they said in trial. Come, come, come, help. I think your mother's dead. It's Garth saying to Chad, hey, mom's dead. found her? We already have a contradiction. Where was Chad during this time? I don't think Garth knew, but I think that she was found on the ground. Garth found her. They had to concoct a story about her falling out of the bed. I have also only heard from every single person I have ever talked to about Garth is that he is a good kid. From Heather, from neighbors, from Zicki Holben. And from Facebook posts, I once saw Garth, he raped about his mother. I can't imagine what he was

feeling and thinking during this time and my heart goes out to him. But Garth's story differs from what is being told in trial right now. Right now, what he is saying on 48 hours is different than what is being said in trial by prior drastically. Alex Cox's phone ping nearby. Alex Cox was certainly part of this. Alex Cox was definitely involved. So whether or not chat is involved, a lot of people, I will say very close to the case, think that Chad and Alex killed Tammy together. I'm back and forth. Let's say that Garth kind of twisted things up and he heard a thump and he went and he found

his mom and put her back in bed and got his dad. That would throw things a little bit for Chad and they'd have to create this thing with her falling out of bed. That would be where this kind of came from, right? Like this whole falling out of bed thing is strange because why create this story? But he would have to if Garth witnessed something. But I will say this, Garth. Daybell's mother-in-law testified.

She was a witness at the grand jury that indicted Chad Debeau, as were some other interesting people we haven't heard from. And if Garth's story differs from his dad's at trial, which it already does, this televised story differs from Chad's. And what if it is that he came in and his dad wasn't there? those stairs start to really matter because it means Chad's lying.

You know, I think we all can be in agreeance right now that Chad plotted his wife's murder. And I've always thought that the falling out of bed thing was really strange to me because I've always thought, okay, so she was probably blessed Tammy's soul, heart. I mean, rest in peace, Tammy. I hate him talking about this, but she was probably murdered on the floor and it was violent.

Chad could have lifted her in bed and never told anyone that she fell out of bed. There's no reason to tell that story. There's no reason to involve your son unless your son is the one that found your deceased wife. And if your son, bless Garth's heart too, found his mother on the floor, then you would have to concoct a story with your son, especially if you didn't call 911 right away. And if you were sleeping separately and you were ashamed of that about being there and having your deceased wife just fell out of bed because her, on one end of the story is her feet were all tangled up in the bed sheets. And the other story is that her feet were out and then her feet fell first. Most people don't realize how much their personal information is being bought and sold every day.

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And I just wonder sometimes if it was Garth that found his mother because Chad Daybaugh was sleeping upstairs. And once the jury knows about the stairs, this is all a possibility that they will figure this out. My concern is for this trial and for justice. And so I think these are really important things to talk out and hope that the prosecution and everyone might understand. And I'm so glad that they validated that there are stairs in. this home leading to a bedroom where Chad is probably sleeping that night.

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Let's listen to Garth Abel one more time because this is truly what he says. Listen to this 48 hours. Just play this one more time because I think it's so different. On October 19th, 2019, Garth Debel heard a loud thumb from his mother's bedroom.

I just ran over and picked her up and put her back on the bed. I said to my dad, I said, I think she's dead. I noticed something new. listening to it again. He said my mother's bed. They said the narrator said his mother's bedroom. It's like the children know that they had separate bedrooms. And he doesn't say my dad and I picked her up. I picked her up. He doesn't say I went in and I found my dad. Chad's story is he found her and

called for Gar. Gar's story is he found her. And then he's the one and Chad's story is that he tells Garth that she's dead. Garth is saying, no, I'm telling my dad that mom is dead. I went into my mother. bedroom. On October 19th, 2019, Garth Daybell heard a loud thumb from his mother's bedroom. I just ran over and picked her up and put her back on the bed.

I said to my dad, I said, I think she's dead. And then Chad takes it from him. And Chad, and actually, Garth bless his heart too on that 911 call. If you listen to that 911 call, it's first Garth. And Garth actually goes,

I don't know what to say and hands it to his dad. dad. That is a child who realizes they've already concocted a story. I need to let my dad take this one. I actually think it was a mistake because I think finding her on the floor really messed things up. He had to concoct a story of her falling out of bed. Things would have been a lot easier if he had just been able to discover her at 6 a.m. In bed. But that concocting the story of her falling out of bed, I think really messed things up. It was really confusing. And Garth saying that he heard a thump, Maybe he did or didn't hear a thump.

Garth was really, really close to his mother. And it could have simply been that he got home from work and went to her bedroom. 1-1. Where is your emergency? We're at 202 North, 1900 East. What's going on? We just found my mom. We just found my mom frozen. We found her.

Frozen. She's stiff. I don't know. Chad takes the phone. He goes, I don't know. Could you just see Chad waving in the background? And then he goes, I don't know. Let's play that one more time.

And again, he doesn't say, my dad found my mom. We found my mom. We found my mom. And he says on the ground. That is where Chad Daybell had to create a story. And that is when Chad takes the phone call. That is when he grabs it. So I want you guys to pay attention to all those things you just heard.

And then Garth Daybell says, I don't know before Chad takes the phone. Can you imagine? Like, you're not saying, I don't know. He's saying these things. Can you just see Chad waving at him? Like, no, no, no. And then Garth goes, I don't know. And Chad takes the phone.

Listen to that part, too. You don't, he keeps going, frozen, on the ground, uh, uh, hands it to his dad. Listen to this. He's getting the story mixed up. We just found her, not Chad found her. What's going on? We just found my mom.

She's on the, she's. Are you in Madison County or Fremont County? I'm, um, Let's keep listening. She's clearly dead. Oh, sorry. Okay. Okay.

Are you in Rexburg or? Did your address show the Rexberg address that you're in Fremont County? My oldest. Okay. Okay. So, yeah, Chad made him call and then grabbed the phone from him, in my opinion, when he started to get things wrong. And then that whole, I don't know, was him looking at his dad going, gosh, you take the phone.

So Chad Daybell is a big visionary on the avow site, which nobody ever knows. It's another voice of warning. And Chad Daybell puts his visions and dreams on there. And once he finds Tammy dead, he writes a paragraph with avow. And this is what he states on the avow website about her death. When I awoke at around 6 a.m. So he's so much for the stairs. Why would John Pryor not want people to know about stairs?

Because Chad's claiming he's next to his wife, not in the cozy cone. When I awoke at around 6 a.m., it was clear she had been gone for several hours, and it came as a shock. No mention of Garth, Daybill. I couldn't believe I hadn't been awakened somehow. But all indications are that her spirit simply slipped away During the night her face looks serene with her eyes closed and a slight smile No mention of pink foam pouring from her mouth

Or the fact that there were this many towels in a pile of all the pink foam that was wiped from her mouth That's also why I think they took hours to call 911 by the way Is because there was so much pink foam Chad Davel had another oh crap moment he was trying to get rid of it and All of the towels were in the corner of the bedroom, and she still had stuff coming from her mouth. But according to a vow, she had simply slipped away during the night and her face looked serene with her eyes closed and a slight smile. It was devastating to discover her that way. No mention of her falling out of bed or being found on the ground.

But I'm so grateful that her death was peaceful. Again, no mention of her being frozen on the ground. that's not a peaceful death. And Garth is the one the founder, and there's no mention of Garth. Garth clearly implies both in the 911 call and in his 48 hours interview that he found his mom, in my opinion.

Slight smile, pink foam, just all over. Same, same, same, right? It's just, I think that John Pryor absolutely knows that his best witness is probably Heather, or excuse me, definitely not Heather, that his best witness is probably Emma Debel, Chad's daughter,

and or Garth Debel, and they could easily, easily be destroyed by the prosecution. And one of these items is the fact that there are stairs in the house. Then, once you know that, you realize that Garth Debel could have easily found his mother in his mother's bedroom

without his dad being there. Those stairs are very, very important. And as Ray Hermaccio states, Chad Debel was sleeping upstairs when he knocked on his door at 7 a.m. in June of 2020 to let them know that they were going to be digging in his yard. And that's where Chad was sleeping.

And it was that window that Ray Hermescio explains that he could see the burial site from that window. Oh, and Garthabelle refers to the room that he found his mother as his mother's bedroom. So the story Chad had pre-written was the story on a vow. The story of a vow, he makes no mention

of a wife falling out of bed. He makes no mention of pink foam, but a slight smile. That was his plan, and that was his plan with Alex, and that he and his wife were happy and sleeping in the same bed, that he wasn't having an affair,

and that they weren't on separate floors in this house. The avow story is the one he pre-planned and pre-plotted, but what he wasn't planning for was his son, was a mama's boy by all account. That's part of this. He loved his mother. And so what Garth wasn't realizing was that when Garth got home from work at one or two

a.m. in the morning from the haunted house that he would go into his mother's bedroom to see his mother. Because it was only his mother's bedroom. Garth Davell was a mama's boy. He got home from work because he was working very late at the haunted house. And what Chad Daybell. planned was that Garth would just go to bed and that he would discover his wife at 6 a.m. in the morning,

but rather Garth Daybell went into his mother's bedroom because it was only his mother's bedroom to see her and discovered her. That's what I think. And Chad was not sleeping there. And so they came up with a plan together. Garth found his mother on the floor and picked her up. And they moved the body. And then they decided.

and came up with a plan before calling 911, hours before calling 911, that they'd have to say she fell out of bed and that Chad was in bed, which would technically mean that, yeah, he's going to let his kid get destroyed on the stand if Garth Abel testifies because he would essentially,

hold on me, he would essentially be lying for his dad because Garth knows that his dad wasn't there, and those stairs are the thing that could ruin John Pryor's entire defense. Those stairs are everything because once you realize that Chad Daybill wasn't in the bedroom

with his wife, he was upstairs, nothing else matters with what these kids say. And that avow planned about this serene passing and Chad waking up with her in the bed next to him, that was still going to be his story until Garth called 911 and said,

we found my mom on the ground. Chad freaked out, grabbed the phone, interrupted a 911 call. Garth said, I don't know. And at that moment, that's where he had to create the story of her falling out of the bed, even though he didn't share that anywhere,

not everywhere. Every single person we've talked to or heard from talks about how Garth and Tammy were so close. So to think that he was pushed into this and then that morning flustered on the 911 call, and having to hand this over to his dad. I just,

I can't imagine what he's been dealing with. And yeah, I hope that maybe one day he can tell the truth. So someone saying this, Garth was how old? We are not talking about a seven-year-old coming into bed to see her at 4 a.m. Well, let's say he was going to see her at 1 a.m. or 2 a.m. or 3-m., I guess he found her frozen.

What if, what if this is a scenario too? I don't know. We're throwing out scenarios. This is all alleged. What if he did hear a thumb? Maybe we should believe Garth completely for a moment. He said he heard a thump on 48 hours.

What if Garth's bedroom was right next to his mother's and he did hear a thump? And then he went to check on her. What if his mother was a night owl and said that she'd wait up for him? The Facebook post on Garth's Facebook, when his mother passed away, sharing the news was sharing how they had plans to go the next day to go see the Idaho potato. out like they did things together. So yeah, I don't think it's improbable that you get home and you're living at home. I mean, he's living there. He's not married and he's checking on his mom.

I think it's such an important discussion to have because John Pryor is making a big deal of these stairs. And I wanted to know why. And I'm hoping for justice. And I hope that the state understands this. that that Chad Dave is not in the same bed with his wife. It could be that Tammy simply said to Garth and Chad would have no idea. I want to make sure you make it home safely. It's her baby.

Can you please come in and check in with me and let me know your home safe because I'm going to have a hard time sleeping until I know you're home safe? You know, maybe Chad convinced Garth that the thump was Tammy falling out of bed. So that's why he convinced him that they could share that story. And Chad said, I want people to think I was in bed with her, though, okay? You know, maybe that's how he got him to do it. I don't know. Too much shame to let people know that he wasn't sleeping with his wife that night.

And it would also make him look suspicious and not like a loving husband who was having an affair. Someone is saying Garth brought home McDonald's for Tammy. Like, who knows, right? Who knows? There are many reasons, though, that Chad's a vow plan. was completely destroyed or could be many reasons. And that is his son coming home. And whether he was bringing her McDonald's, checking in with her, saying hi,

hearing a thump, there are many reasons for Garth to find his mother. And I think he found her well before Chad was ready for anyone to find her. Lynn is saying, hidden true crime. Lauren, Chad tells Emma to take a mattress down from upstairs when he's in the police car talking to her. It's easy to miss. Wow. Some people are saying she died at one or two a.m. And I think that that is accurate, that that is true. And some people are sort of implying if they didn't call until 6 a.m., maybe she didn't die at that time. But I think that the jury's, the jury is going to just understand very clearly that she died at about one or two and they didn't

call until six. And that makes things look weird, too, that you're laying in bed with your deceased wife for that long. And then she falls out. of bed hours later i think it's just very um i think that also one of john priors defense moves which is most defense attorneys moves is just to create doubt you don't have to prove complete innocence you just have to get the jury jurors confused and you have to create doubt and confusion and that's that's what he's doing a lot of the time so keep that in mind it's not like he's trying to say you know this didn't happen or Chad Daybill is a completely innocent man.

If there's just enough doubt or confusion in the juror's mind to say he's not, he must not be guilty or they don't know if he's guilty, then he's doing a good job. I mean, what John Pryor was wanting to do with Hannah, and this all started with Hannah, Hannah, well done. Hannah, your testimony was awesome and direct and perfect. and what Hannah did was discuss how Chad Daybell sort of implied that they were apart.

Let's go back to Hannah. I mean, maybe, oh, I took Hannah's down, but like going back to Hannah's after everything we've discussed, it is so confusing. Hannah is telling us that Chad Daybell told her parents that Chad said that they weren't even in the same bed. Like, think about how twisted that story is. That's not in a vow.

That's not on 911. And that is not. In Garth Debel's story, if John Pryor's best witnesses are Chad Daybell's kids, he could be in a lot of trouble once the prosecution is able to insert a lot of confusing aspects. Chad Debel had coercive control over his entire family and you see it with his children when Garth makes that phone call, I'm sure because Chad requested him to. And then when he sees his dad waving and telling him to stop, he says, I don't know. and hands the phone to his dad and shuts up.

He might be soft-spoken, but he ruled with an iron fist somehow in that family with his soft-spoken voice. So, all right, guys. Thank you, everyone for being here. May justice be served. Your old or broken phone can let you down. But at Verizon, trade in any old phone from our top brands

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