Hidden True Crime - CHAD DAYBELL TRIAL: Week One -Jury Selection

Episode Date: April 9, 2024

Join Hidden True Crime as we follow the Chad Daybell's trial beginning to end. Host Lauren Matthias is in the courtroom every day, doing lunch lives on YouTube and summarizing each day and week right here on Hidden: A True Crime Podcast. As jury selection begins, we speak with two jurors from Lori Vallow Daybell's trial. LAUREN MATTHIAS was a television reporter for a decade, and has followed the Lori Vallow and Chad Daybell case since 2019. Lauren and her husband John Matthias, a criminal psychologist, started Hidden True Crime in 2020 with their Season: 'Beyond the Veil' a psychological deep dive into the doomsday murders and prophet.  A podcast that started at their dinner table has now turned into the dynamic husband and wife duo of Dr. John Matthias, a forensic psychologist, and Lauren Matthias, an investigative journalist, delving into the psychological facets of unthinkable crimes every week. Thank you for your support through sponsorships, subscribing, listening, and becoming at Patreon member at Patreon.com/HiddenTrueCrime Our Sponsors:* Check out Acorns: https://acorns.com/HIDDENTRUECRIME* Check out Acorns: https://acorns.com/HIDDENTRUECRIME* Check out Armoire and use my code HIDDENTRUECRIME for a great deal: https://www.armoire.style* Check out Effecty and use my code HIDDENTRUECRIME for a great deal: https://www.effecty.com* Check out Happy Mammoth and use my code HIDDENTRUECRIME for a great deal: https://happymammoth.comSupport this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/hidden-a-true-crime-podcast1836/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Laura was another juror at the Lori Vallow daybell trial. And this is her first interview. I remember you because there were many times where I saw you crying throughout the trial. It was emotional. I didn't know anything about the case going into it. So everything kind of just hit me like a ton of bricks. Like I didn't.

I wasn't prepared. And so, yeah, it was a lot. It's a lot to take in for any one person. But afterwards, I did do counseling. It helped me a lot. Like, I don't know what I would have done without it. Yeah. Yeah, I would do it all over again.

I mean, she needs to be in jail for the rest of her life. And if that meant that it was me doing it, and along with 17 other jurors, then that's what we had to do. You saw a lot of evidence when it came to Chad's trial during Lori's trial. You certainly must have a strong opinion about Chad. Not seeing it lightly. If I was, if they were being tried together and I only heard the evidence that we heard in Laurie's case, I would have convicted him too. is going to be a lot more interesting. Prior is certainly bringing a defense. He's even pointed

out, unlike Lori's trial, he says, I'm actually going to have a defense. And he has called witnesses. In fact, I want all of you to know, I am allowed to say this. Heather Daybel and I have talked, and she was planning to come in solidarity with Kay and Larry and Chad Daibel is her brother-in-law. She is married to Chad Daybell's brother. But she has been subpoenaed by by John Pryor, which means she's unable to watch the trial. And I also cannot talk to her about the trial. You're shaking your head. I think he's pulling out dirty tricks.

For him to subpoena her, he could never call her. But he's taken away her ability to be here. Right. And he knows what he's doing. In my opinion, that's what I think. Hidden, a true crime podcast. A forensic psychologist and a journalist explore the hidden motives behind unthinkable crimes while examining our deepest fears along the way.

I am here with Tom and Laura. They are also known when it comes to the Lori Valo-Dabelle trial as juror number 18 and juror number four. And Laura did her first ever interview yesterday with us during our lunch. live meeting you, Laura, yesterday. I just thought, gosh, I would love to have Laura's voice to you have such an incredible voice and the things you said yesterday. So thank you both for being on here tonight. First off, Laura, were you watching? You haven't been in court, but have you been watching from your home, the jury selection process? Are you avoiding the jury selection process? Where are you in listening? Everything. When I can, I mean, I watched for maybe, or

mostly listen for maybe an hour today. But my husband is a pilot. So I am single mom when he's gone. And so that's part of what made this whole jury process really tough is being, you know, trying to manage everybody's schedule and being gone. So I can't. I just can't be there most days without obligation of having to be there. Yeah.

I want to share somebody that's in the chat, by the way. Thank God for yourself, less wonderful humans, and you're willing to serve on juries. This is actually Lori Vallow's cousin, the first cousin that is sharing that. So she thanks you both. Thank you, Megan for being here. Megan Connor, it's her name. Tom, asking you a little bit at lunch,

you were telling me a story that I actually felt was really profound. And we'll get to your exciting news in just a minute. But you were talking to me about finishing up. You both talked to us about, you know, the trauma and, you know, Lori, you mentioned you had to, you sought counseling afterwards. And I know some of the gruesome things you guys had to look at. I saw you in tears oftentimes, Laura, as a juror. And so in talking to you, Tom, today, you were telling me about how you started to actually find healing. It kind of implied it started with a travel to Rexford. And you came with Laura, right?

Yeah. Would you mind? No, not at all. So I took the trip for the sentencing to Rexburg, which is a four and a half, five-hour drive from Boise. And I had planned to bring my wife, Susan, with me. But it turned out that our grandson was due to be born and was going to be induced. that night so Susan had to stay home. So I made the drive all by myself. And on the way into Rexburg, I just decided I'm going to go by Chad's house and look at the property. I'd seen it

many times, you know, on video or whatever. So I knew it pretty well. Anyway, I pulled in there. There's a little turnout. I pulled into the turnout and just kind of sat there and looked across the street into the yard and at the house and contemplated, remembered back at all the things the videos that I'd seen of the police being there and, you know, digging up the graves and all that stuff. And it was a really somber time for me. I'd probably spent a half hour, an hour, just sitting there thinking about all that kind of stuff. I was feeling really dark and kind of depressed. And when I drove off, went to the hotel, I had no idea what was going to be at the hotel. I didn't think there was anything. I just, I just picked a hotel.

Actually, Susan picked my hotel in Rexburg. But when I got there, Laura and Nina were there first, so I ran into them. They said that they wanted to go out there and see it, and they wanted me to go with them. I didn't really feel like going back out there. I was kind of wanting to be over that, but I didn't want to have them go out without me, so I went. And this time we pulled into that street.

I forget the name of the street number. we pulled into the turnout there and it was full of people Kay and Larry were there there had been a memorial built on the fence and I think you were there Lauren interviewing Ken Larry and there was a bunch of other people there Janine and Clint were there I remember I'm not sure who else. Janine was there and she's here right here yep that's when I first met them that's when I first met Can Larry I talked to Kay and Larry on the phone a few times

beforehand. But Laura and Nina and I, we just kind of stood back and waited for, you know, we didn't want to interrupt any interviews or anything. So we just kind of stood back. And as soon as it all was kind of over, Kay and Larry immediately approached us.

They recognized us. They gave us a big hug and thanked us. And that just was a turning point for me. And it was kind of the end of a turning point because, you know, I felt honored by the end of the trial to be, be a part of that. And I was proud of the judicial system and everything that I saw in that courtroom on that side of it. And that kind of really flipped that switch for me and turned it around.

And I think Laura feels the same way. Yeah, what was that experience like for you going to Rexberg? Because you, you know, you briefly talked about it in our live yesterday outside the courthouse. But did that do something for you too? Laura, to be able to go to Rexberg for Lori sentencing? Yeah, for sure. I mean, by the time the trial had started, we had been in the Boise area for a total of a year and a half. So I didn't know what Rexberg was, Madison County, Fremont County. If you had asked me before where those places were, it would have had no idea. So, but in reality, I had been there before because we'd gone to Yellowstone the summer before. So, you know, it was all kind of new to me going there and just kind of taking in everything.

And yeah, we were at the hotel waiting for Tom to get there. I didn't realize that he was at the property. And we were a little bummed that he had already gone. So we asked him and I could tell that he didn't want to go, but he was going for us. so, which I was really grateful for to have both of them there. I count both of them as very dear friends now. And so being there was, like I said yesterday, it was saying, I mean, knowing the children are obviously not there anymore,

but paying my respects to them. saying, I can't bring you back, but I did what I could for justice. And it just felt like a peaceful resting place. I know that kind of sounds weird, but then to also see Kay and Larry there, you know, I had watched Kay mostly like a lot during the trial because she was one of the first people to testify, if not the first. So I knew really, you know, from the very beginning who she was. And I remember at the verdict sitting there watching her.

And all I wanted to do was go over and hug her and tell her that we did it, that we got it, that we had the verdict she was praying for. So to be there and be able, and they both just hugged us and were so welcoming and just really good people. And it just, it was part of the healing. I mean, I had done counseling sessions before them, and I went through the EMDR, which I don't know if either one of you know what it is. But it was really, yes.

Yeah, it's so good. I mean, it works for me. I know it doesn't work for everybody, but it worked for me. But it was just another step. in healing for me and being able to connect with the people that I watched for all of those weeks and knowing a tiny bit of what they had gone through. And then also at the sentencing, being able to meet the detectives and the judge and his clerk. and, you know, like, it just felt like closure.

Like I felt so good leaving there the next day. So, yeah, it was definitely a part of my healing too. And I think talking to other jurors that didn't end up going kind of had wish they would have because of how good Tom and I felt afterwards. That's interesting. And that makes sense that some might think, oh, I don't know if I want to go there. It's a crime scene, right? It's this crime scene.

It's going to be difficult, but to share how it was actually healing. Thank you for sharing that. I concur with everyone saying thank you for being so vulnerable to one sharing this. I want to share somebody else that's actually in this stream with us. So I shared that Lori Valo's cousin is here. Tammy Daybell's aunt is here. Aunt Vic. So she is in town and attending on behalf of Tammy and her sister is Tammy's mother who passed shortly after Lori's trial.

So she is representing Tammy's family. Thank you. And Jeannie Marie says, Laura, thank you so much for opening up with us. My heart has been extended to you since day one. So thank you for sharing this. Before the trial, how much did you both know about the case? Laura, I'll ask you first. Okay.

I didn't know anything. Like, I didn't know a single thing. In fact, I still kind of laugh because during this process with the jury selection, Lori was sitting there obviously like Chad is now. but I thought she was part of the defense team. I had no idea that she was the defendant, even though they probably told me. And in fact, I know he did because I see the process now,

but I was so nervous about what was I going to say. I was nervous about figuring out how to handle my kids when I wasn't there. And so I just, I had no idea. I didn't know a single thing. I didn't live here when it was all going down. And it never came across anything that I would have been on at the time to hear about it. Most people don't realize how much their personal information is being bought and sold every day. Data brokers are making billions, pulling details about you from public records and the Internet,

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Sign up now and join the over 13 million all-time customers who've already saved and invested over $22 billion with Acorns. Head to Acorns.com slash hidden true crime or download the Acorns app to get started. Paid non-client endorsement compensation provides incentive to positively promote Acorns, tier one compensation provided. Investing involves risk, Acorns Advisors, LLC and SEC registered investment advisor. A few important disclosures at acorns.com slash hidden true crime. Wow. What's up? I just bought and financed a car through Carvana in minutes. You? The person who agonized four weeks over whether to paint your well's eggshell or off White bought and financed a car in minutes. They made it easy. Transparent terms, customizable down and

monthly, didn't even have to do any paperwork. Wow. Mm-hmm. Hey, have you checked out that spreadsheet I sent you for our dinner options? Finance your car with Garvana and experience total control. Financing subject to credit approval. So, yeah. I don't think, Laura, that you and I ever really talked about that part of it. But that's, was my experience, too, is I didn't really, until I saw her, I think I must have known by that time what the trial was, but it didn't really, there was some kind of mental block that happens or something. I didn't really comprehend until we went into the courtroom and there she was, right?

Yeah. Yeah, like the first day on the opening statements and she was still there, and I was like, oh, so it's you. So with that being said, knowing so little about this case. And by the way, I'm seeing a couple of questions. Rebecca, I starred your question. If anybody else has questions for these two, put them in chat, I'll be starring them and asking them a few.

What did you guys start to learn after? Because you knew nothing about the case. Tom claims he isn't into true crime. I keep trying to say yes, you are. He's like, no, really, and not. It's just this case. It's just this case. I'm like, you're a true crime author, Tom.

Put a pin in that. We'll come back to that. But what did you guys do after the trial? I can't imagine that after the trial, there was so much evidence that you didn't maybe keep digging and keep trying to learn more. Am I right about that? Trying to understand?

Yeah. Like I was obsessed. I could not get enough of what, like, I needed more info. But my biggest question is what happened to Alex? He's dead, but nobody said, like, what happened? And I remember on the van ride back to our cars, after the verdict, we were asking the bailiffs, like, what happened? And the alternates who had already had the ability to look at up stuff, once they knew the verdict had been reached, then they could, you know, then they would release from their service.

So one of them had already been looking it up. And I was like, we were all just like trying to figure out some of those missing pieces that they just don't tell you. But I also, I didn't think at the time, but I thought there's got to be more to the story. Like other than what we heard that would explain away like the why. Why would you do this? Why? How do you get to this place? And I think that's been the biggest thing for me, even still.

And obviously with Chad's trial starting up, it's kind of all happening all over again. But I feel good about it. Like I felt really good yesterday. I ran into a couple of the detectives. And they just gave me a hug, you know, and it just felt like it feels okay now. I can deal and I can talk. I mean, it doesn't mean I don't still cry because I mean, I will still do.

And I probably always will. And what about you, Tom? You listen to our podcast, right? And a few others. I'm listening to you guys a lot. Okay. Everything I get a hold of. Every book I could read, every podcast,

every documentary, movie. I was into all of it. Crash for us. Because we really didn't know anything by the time the trial was over. Just the little bit that we learned in that trial was just on the surface. And Laura, you also have listened to us now, right? When I met you in Rexburg, you hadn't listened, but then you took the time to listen to hidden chagram.

Has it helped, by the way? Because when you say you want to understand the why. Yeah, I didn't know who you guys were at that time of the sentencing, but I have since listened. And then when Tom came on and did his first interview with you, I listened then and then I listened. You know, I've been listening more on the podcast more than on YouTube. So whenever you've released some new things, then I've been listening to that. And then I was really fascinated by the Tim Ballard case. So I was listening to them.

And I was like, that's so crazy the connections between the two cases and the Ruby Frank and Jody Holdenbrand cases. Like I think even though they're obviously different, they're so related that it kind of, it makes you not understand because I don't think you can ever understand. But there's a whole group of people out here with those views that are, you know, some are a little tweaked, obviously, but they're so similar. Yes.

Yes. That's what we need to get to the bottom up, honestly. That's all these things are all tied together. They'll go way deeper than we know. We've got to start learning as much as we can about all this. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. It's like wild. And then like not too long after that was the case of. The mom taking the son. I don't remember her name. It starts with a tea. But she went from Arizona up to Boise and then they went and drove. The Tibadoes.

Yes. So, yeah, I mean, I also wasn't a true crime person, but, you know, maybe you can count me as one now. Tom, you took your, you've shared this. People know that you're writing a book. you took your research to the next level. You said, I'm writing a book, which I think you said has helped you be able to heal a bit too and sort of investigate it and put it to words. And we had an exciting announcement.

I shared that we have some news tonight that hidden true crime gems. We have some exclusive news. We're going to be the first to learn it. Tom, why don't you tell us your news? And I wouldn't tell it anywhere but here first. Thank you. You and your gems. Thank you.

Yeah, so my book is available now for pre-orders, finally. And I think the timing is good. And it's available if you go to tomevansauthor.com. You can find the link there. Order the book. It won't come out until after the verdict comes in in the Chad Daybill trial. It won't actually be released until then that you can pre-order now. I appreciate you and all the support that you've been in many different ways during this whole thing.

And Dr. John. And Dr. John. Yeah. Thank you. I'll let them know that. But there was one moment where they gave you guys some evidence on a screen. I was actually really glad that they ended up doing it that way, just for the dignity of Jay, J. And Tiley and Tammy.

like it was necessary for everyone to see and I certainly didn't want to see either and I mostly stared at the ceiling during when the pictures were up like I would look to see

what I needed to see but then I would like mostly look up for two factors I just couldn't take that in but also I was afraid I was going to pass out so I didn't I didn't want to like think about it too much so I would just try to think about something else and you know take in just

little bits at a time. I've heard other jurors say that too and that was I thought I was the only one doing that. I think maybe everybody did that. Yeah. Yeah. It was it was enough for me to see some of the, you know, the photos. We all saw them one day on the screen and I know that your photos, you guys each had to look that were much clearer, you know,

and they were, because you each had your individual computer screens. And then at the closing arguments, I felt terrible for all of you when they had you look at them again, you know, for the closing arguments. And they did not show them that time, um, gratefully to, I didn't want to see them again, but to the whole, um, courtroom just to you. So, yeah, yeah. I hope they do that again because I just, I mean, they deserved respect.

They didn't get it at their death, but they certainly deserve it now. Yeah. What did you think? Here's a great question from Kokobe. What did you think about Lori asking not to be in the courtroom the day the autopsy photos were being shown? We didn't know. We just said a couple hours waiting. You were in the back.

That's right. Did you hear about that after? Did you hear about it after? Okay. Okay. So who told you after? Is it just something you learned? I don't remember. Yeah. Yeah, I can't remember either. I think maybe one of the bailiffs talked about it afterwards. After the trial was over?

Yeah. Yeah, because we sat and talked to them for a little while after. You know, because we had finally talked to them where we hadn't been able to this whole time. And they were unbelievably professional and so good to us. Like, you couldn't have asked for better humans to take care of us. They are- Go back to court and see those guys? I loved it. I got to give you a hug, and it was the best.

It felt like, I was like, I don't know if I'm supposed to talk to you. And then Kim saw me, he didn't, couldn't come over to where we were, but he, like gave me a little wave. And it just was like, I miss them, you know. I don't want to compare our. They're good bailiffs. The bailiffs are great men. Yeah, they're good guys.

But I don't want to compare our experience to somebody who's gone to war or, you know, what the police have to do with. But I understand what they mean when they talk about a band of brothers. Because I feel that way about those guys and Laura and other people that were, went through what we had to go through together. Yep. exactly you're not comparing it to being a soldier in war but you're comparing it to the bond that is shared when people have to go through something difficult yeah the band of brothers absolutely absolutely um there is a question from see rebecca asks laura and tom what do you think about lorry's smiles and our nonchalant demeanor in court i was pissed i was pissed because I'm giving up time from my family.

And you seem to think this is just your social hour. Like snuggling up to them and flirting, it was all so disgusting to me. And apparently I didn't hide that very well because when I saw Ray yesterday, he's like, if you could have put a hole through her head with your looks, you would have. have like I was apparently giving her the dust there which I didn't and I wasn't intentionally doing that but I was just like in my mind thinking this is disgusting to me but then then there's chad who doesn't move at all I don't know how he does that so nervous because he seems very stressed out I mean it's either that or maybe he has a sports injury and he can't move his neck you know you don't

know but those are a couple of my theories there you know I Yeah I mean yesterday was the first time that I had seen him and Tom and I both got the stink guy from Pryor

so I think it's Tom I know I've said some things that would be offensive to him but I can't imagine how he would have heard them and I know Lauren has also and so but I wouldn't be surprised too I wouldn't put it past him

maybe you have a gem that's being paid by him to spy on us or on you. I don't know. It's weird. But sure enough, he was looking right over at us, like you said. Yeah. Yeah. Contact with thoughts. Yeah.

You did it again today. Right when I walked into the courtroom, Chad looked up. And then I was, because I was talking to James, one of the bailiffs there. and I think he was like trying to figure out who I was just kind of Most people don't realize how much their personal information is being bought and sold every day. Data brokers are making billions pulling details about you from public records and the internet and then packaging and selling it, usually without your consent. That's how your information lands in the hands of scammers, spammers, even stalkers.

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ORA gives you all of it, together, at the same price competitors charge for just one. one service. Start your free trial today atora.com slash remove. Protect yourself now atora.com slash remove. Because then I was like, oh, he's like right there. He's like five feet away from me. He kind of recognized you from Laurie's trial, but couldn't quite place for maybe. Did she portal and show him all the people that were there? Well, I took an elevator ride up first morning with him to the court room. He wouldn't say good morning. He wouldn't look at me. He wouldn't acknowledge me in any way. And I wasn't trying to have a conversation or anything, but you could say good morning. You know, you're acknowledging. It's prior. Yeah. I thought that was a lot. That's what

started it off. And then every time he would talk to a potential juror, he would then turn and stare right at one of the three of us or maybe all three of us. And he did it more today. It's the same thing today. It's got it. Thank you for validating it. Well, there aren't that many people in the courtroom. And so if he's going to turn around, I mean, you know, I didn't want to like put anything, you know what I mean, put any meaning behind it. But it is, yeah, it's weird. It's happening. It's weird. It's weird. It's happened. Yeah. Whatever. So, Tim is just smiled really big at him if he does that. Someone else said, blow him a kiss when he does that. Are you talking to me or Tom? Tom, blow him a kiss. I don't dare. Yeah. No, that's good. Rebecca says you two would be on his no. You two would be on his no list, potential choice.

That's why he's wary. Even though he's Chad's attorney, I respect his position. Clearly, this case is about sex, power, and money. That's the name of money, power, and sex. That's the name of Tom's book. But behind that even deeper, the things that John and I talk about on our podcast are these really wild religious views or not views things. When I mean, I've been covering this case for quite a few years before Lori's trial, but I can't imagine being a juror and being blown.

Like, I guess I'm fishing like, were you guys blown away by when you heard the religious elements when they talked about portals and zombies and so much. much of the evidence that they shared was, was religious. At one point, they're bringing up their temple attendance and relating it to the murders. Any thoughts when you hear, I mean, it was some pretty wild evidence they were sharing in court. Yeah.

I didn't know, I didn't even, I didn't really know anything about the LDS faith. I mean, I, I didn't, I'm new to Idaho. Obviously,

there's a large population. population here, but I didn't, I didn't, I didn't understand the wards. I mean, I was so starting from ground zero trying to understand, like, you have to go. I mean, I just pick what church I want to go to, and that's the church that I call home, you know, I don't, I'm not told where to go. So that was that and then yeah all the wild stuff I was like trying to it's almost like when you first hear it your mind can't even comprehend on like what it all means but I know I mean Zulima was probably the one that stands out to me the most of trying like her trying to explain all the things that they believed but I still struggle with it you know

of how to go from what the faith is to going outside of it and believing that this is the truth now. And the prior lives and that's just was never anything I've ever even heard of before. I've always been interested in religious fundamentalism and I've read all about cults and things going on. on the Utah, Arizona border, all that kind of stuff. So I kind of, I wasn't quite a shock maybe about all that part of it. We're surprised by it. I know that stuff goes on. Yeah.

There's a lot of things happening to children still. It's going on right now just continuing to go on. Laura and Tom and Laura, what would you like Chad's verdict to be if you could choose? Guilty. Yeah. Guilty. Yeah. Oh, yeah, the verdict.

Yeah, guilty for sure. Yeah. Yeah. And you guys said in the lunch live, I'll just remind people, I asked and you said that you felt just from the evidence presented in Lori's trial about Chad that you would have found him guilty if their cases had been joined. Yeah, for sure. And I would have even gone so far as murder for Tammy with him. if they had even just provided a little more evidence of,

which I don't think they could go into because I think he did it instead of. I mean, she conspired, but I think that he and Alex did it somehow. And I really hope to like kind of learn more about their theory on what happened. Yes. And then the insurance fraud, a thousand percent. I mean, yeah. Right. Right. Right.

Last question. We have people purchasing your book. Again, I'll put the link in the description of this video when we're done so that everyone can support Tom. And by supporting Tom, you're also supporting the Hope House. The proceeds of the book are going to the Hope House. It's so incredible. If time allows, so this takes us to Rexberg, the sentencing. Can you discuss Lori's statement in closing to remind people she didn't talk at, in court when you guys were jurors, but at our sentencing. Thoughts on that. Yeah, that was crazy. I heard her say the thing she said that were so bizarre. And Laura was talking about how insulting she is.

That was the most insulted I have ever been in my life. And I felt for, you know, Vicki, Aunt Vicki, Sammy's Aunt Vicky and all the other people that were there. They had to listen to her about that stuff. That was infuriating. I like the look on Lindsay's leg's face. I couldn't see it in the courtroom because we were behind her,

but looking at the video from the front, you can see her looking over it. Yeah, she had that look on her face. It was like she was astounded. I never saw that. Tom was sitting next to me in the courtroom at that time, and she started talking, And I could feel my whole body gets stiff, like rage coming in.

And then I could feel Tom stiffening up too. And I was like, okay, so he feels the same way I do. I mean, she wasn't just, I was mad. Like, how dare you? Like, how dare you? And then I'd heard after that she was kind of laughing when the other people were up they're giving their victim statement. I don't know.

I just really hope she's scared and miserable for the rest of her life. Well, Lori's own cousin agrees with you. The disrespect was infuriating. She says, Megan says, yeah, I remember interviewing and talking to Megan after the fact. And I think insulting is a great word to use.

It is insulting to all of us who have cared about her children and cared about Tammy Debao. and cared about all the victims, Charles, and surviving victims. It was insulting to everyone, to everyone. Yeah. Yeah, I have a picture we got of Tiley and JJ in the morning where I get ready. So I see them every morning. Oh.

That's beautiful. I have it right behind my computer. I can see it right here. As I'm writing about some of the horrible stuff, I can look over. and I swear I look at that picture and they're telling me I can tell their story or making me feel okay about it.

Well, why don't we end on that? That's beautiful that you both look at JJ and Tiley every day. We will end on that. And thank you for continuing awareness because justice has not been served yet, not until Chad DeBel's trial has been concluded. Of course, Lori has a trial in Arizona as well when it comes to Charles's death.

So thank you for. for continuing to speak out, for caring enough to care about Chad's trial and being so invested and for your civic duty in making sure justice was served. And we can only hope that we will get on the jury another Tom and another Laura. Not the same ones. Not the same ones. Not the same ones. I can not. I just say, Lauren, before you go, I thank you so much for your support and everything you're doing. I really appreciate it. Thank you. That means a lot.

Thank you so much. We'll see you both. Have a great evening. You too. Bye-bye. Hi, Laura. We'll see you. Just to remind you, we are doing a live stream tomorrow.

We're going to continue. And I just want you guys to know that I was in the chat during the live stream. I started out on Twitter because that's what I did last year on X. But I realized that I could be in the live stream. And it just made so much more sense. So I'm the eyes and the ears of the courtroom still, but I'm doing a lot of that on the live stream. So come join us there tomorrow. I'll be in court. I'll be on the court live stream on Hidden True Crime in the chat. So we'll see you guys. Thanks for being here.

Hello, Hidden Jems. It's Lauren with Hidden a True Crime podcast. As a TV reporter, I learned the art of visual storytelling. So if you're like me, you enjoy listening, but also viewing. You can actually head to our YouTube channel, Hidden True Crime, to watch these interviews. Hit the subscribe button for surprise lives and breaking news. And for exclusive content, things Dr. John and I only dare say behind a paywall, become a Patreon member at patreon.com slash hidden true crime. You'll find bonus episodes, early releases, and insider info. Thank you for your endless support.

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