Hidden True Crime - DELPHI: Richard Allen Trial Day 11 Wednesday 10/30 "I covered them with branches" BOMBSHELL CONFESSIONS REVEALED

Episode Date: November 10, 2024

Lauren Matthias is inside the Courtroom in Delphi, Indiana for the trial of Richard Allen, and bringing us the very latest from Carroll County as the trial has no audio or video recording. Richard Allen is charged with murdering 13-year-old Abigail Williams and 14-year-old Liberty German in 2017. About Hidden True Crime: Lauren Matthias, a former television reporter, and her husband Dr. John Matthias, a criminal psychologist, started Hidden True Crime in 2020 with their Season, 'Beyond the Veil,' a psychological deep dive into the doomsday murders and prophet. What started as a simple conversation at their dinner table became a captivating podcast. Join the dynamic duo of Dr. John Matthias, a forensic psychologist, and Lauren Matthias, an investigative journalist, as they delve into the psychological facets of unthinkable crimes every week. Their unique perspectives and in-depth analysis offer a fresh take on true crime storytelling. Thank you for your support through sponsorships, subscribing, listening, and becoming a Patreon member at Patreon.com/HiddenTrueCrime Our Sponsors:* Check out Acorns: https://acorns.com/HIDDENTRUECRIME* Check out Acorns: https://acorns.com/HIDDENTRUECRIME* Check out Armoire and use my code HIDDENTRUECRIME for a great deal: https://www.armoire.style* Check out Effecty and use my code HIDDENTRUECRIME for a great deal: https://www.effecty.com* Check out Happy Mammoth and use my code HIDDENTRUECRIME for a great deal: https://happymammoth.comSupport this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/hidden-a-true-crime-podcast1836/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Quince uses premium materials like European linen, organic cotton, but they cut out the middleman. So everything is priced way lower than you'd expect. Refresh. your every day with luxury you can actually use. Head to quince.com slash hidden true crime for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. That's quince, quince, q-u-in-c-com slash hidden true crime for free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com slash hidden true crime. Hey, everyone, I am in Delphi, Indiana, spending long nights in line, camping out in order to get into the courtroom each day and bring you the latest on the Richard Allen trial. Alan is charged with murdering 13-year-old Abigail Williams and 14-year-old Liberty German in

February of 2017. Now, this episode you're about to listen to was originally recorded as a live stream on YouTube right after court ended on Monday. We've made some edits for our podcast version. But if you notice any choppy moments or references to a live chat, that is why. We appreciate you understanding as we work around the clock to bring you the latest on the Richard Allen trial with a quick turnaround. And if you would like to catch the full unedited live stream, you can always head over to hit and chew crime on YouTube. Hey everyone.

Hello, hello, hello. We had a fascinating day to day in court today. There was a lot we heard from his psychologist, Dr. Walla, and I have been waiting. to hear from Dr. Walla. So let's talk about that. All right. So today started again with Dr. Monica Walla. Let me set the stage for everything that happened today.

We've got a lot to go through. I'm glad we got out of, I'm glad we got out early. So Wednesday, October 30th, 2024. First off, Nancy Gray showed up this morning. She stayed for the morning before the morning break for a while. And she gave Kelsey and then Mike and Becky Patty hugs. And Carrie is Libby's mother and her daughters. They gave each other hug.

And she also greeted Abby's mom and Abby's grandparents who were all in the room. And there was a warm greeting there. Kathy Allen and Richard Allen's dad were there in the courtroom. and uh kath uh richard allen's mother still not there again i have heard that she is no longer in the hospital but she is taking it easy and recovering after she fell coming into the courtroom so the witness again dr monica walla w a la in the courtroom she she had let me explain what she looked like she had a forest green mock turtleneck shirt on, which was sort of this complimentary contrast color with her very dark red hair, so dark and red. It was a, it was a beautiful color,

but it was a unique color, which is why I'm explaining it. She had this dark, sort of, almost violet hair. It's on her. So I think she has brunette hair, and then she had this sort of violet tint to it. And she had glasses. And honestly, she, she was young. I don't know how young, but she wasn't an older psychologist. She was a clinical psychologist. She has her bachelor's degree, a master's in counseling, and a doctorate in psychology, a very impressive resume. And she had shoulder length hair. So she, the, so the prosecutor starts by questioning their witness. It's the prosecution's witness, okay, of course, the state's witness.

And she explains that she doesn't work for the Indiana Department of Corrections. She has a, they contract her company to work. So she, but she works at the Indiana Department of Corrections. She is the lead psychologist at the Department of Corrections. but the contractor doesn't work for the state. So essentially she primarily worked at this one facility, which is the Da-D-D-D-D-D-Westville Correctional Facility, which is where Richard Allen is being held.

She provides services to the incarcerated people, and that included Richard Allen. Very tough job she does. I'm impressed. So she explains that initially his only mental health like provider or the main, I should say the main mental health provider was her. But later they also had master level providers help him. But at first, she was his main provider. And it was just assumed that she would be the main provider, even though, so she is the head lead psychologist of the Department of Corrections.

She's like the head honcho, right? Like the main, the main woman. And everyone just sort of assumed that she would be his main psychologist simply because he was a high profile, because of the high profile nature of his case. So she would take Richard Allen on. There was no one else that she would see every day like she saw with Richard Allen.

She was very involved in Richard Allen's mental health treatment. She would keep documents with him. She would write notes. She would file them. And then she would type all of the notes in a program used for all of the patients and the clients that she had. She explains that they called it an APOD cubicle, the place where they would meet daily.

So she would be daily with him. He would be transported here. And it was this pod cubicle. And it was a room that had a partition, meaning that she was on one side. He was on another side. Richard Allen was on another side with, I assume, glass between them.

I don't know. She didn't say glass. I'm picturing that, but I could be wrong. But sort of this divided cubicle, she emphasized that Richard Allen would not be shackled in the cubicle. When she was asked that, she would take notes in the cubicle of what was happening,

and then she put her notes into a database or a program later that day, and she would do this every day. You know, I feel like I'm kind of far away from my microphone. So I am going to push this around. It's going to take a little bit. It might disconnect because I have my travel mic, which is very sensitive. So let's make this happen, though. I want to fix it before I continue.

get myself closer. Thank you, everyone, for waiting for me again, by the way. I do apologize. I've actually never been that late in a very long time. And I just started to sort of doubt my notes. And I decided it was better late and going over some of these than then jumping into early. because of the nature of this case. I've been saying to people actually, like, look, hidden true crime, we editorialize. We love some juicy speculation sometimes. Like, hidden true crime is not above that. But I've just been realizing for me, as I've gone to this trial every day, I've realized,

you know, if there's something to just, if there's anything to like maybe lessen on the editorializing or the speculation for me, in my opinion, I'm like, I think. that I just want to be a journalist when it comes to this case. I think I just want to be like, this happened and then this happened, or not case, excuse me, this trial. We've definitely speculated on the case, but like this trial. I want to say, this happened and this happened and this happened. And just for me, that's what I wanted to do. And so thus, I was late today because there was a part of today's trial that I was really struggling hearing. The line is getting pretty wild outside and at lunch and everything. And the further row you are back, the harder it is to hear. And for about two

hours, I was in the very back row. And I did my best. And I just was like, oh, I've had it. And then I finally was going over my notes right before. And I realized, you know what? I missed a lot. I was struggling. And so thank you for waiting while I reached out to a courtroom friend. And we, put our notes together to really do better during this one part. So sorry about the intermission. I think my microphone is in a better place. Let's continue down what I would. Let's continue with Dr. Wallace's testimony. So all right. So Richard Allen wouldn't be shackled. She would, she explained her process every day. She was in charge and was the provider for Richard Allen. She would take notes in this cubicle, this therapy cubicle, and then she would put her notes into the database program

later that day. So then they submit state exhibits 303 and 304, and they are given to the jury. And again, this is one of those days where we did not get to see the exhibits given to the jury, nor did we get to see them yesterday. Well, we did see that interrogation video. But just remember that the jury is actually given tangible material to look at and to file in their evidence every day that the gallery is not getting. So she explains that on November 22, that is when Dr. Wallace started. starts seeing Richard Allen. And then on April 5th, 2023, they had, she, she

put into the database the first document. She explained what the visit type was, this first visit with him. And it was an S, we say S here, everybody knows what that is, self-harm, but an S monitoring. And it outlines why someone is placed on S-watch. And that, again, that is the reason he came to this facility, she explains. She said that there were close observations and as she observed him, they actually staggered the observations, but everyone needed to observe him at least every 15 minutes and write notes every 15 minutes when he first came in and was on this S watch. They put the entries into the

suicide log. The initial suicide watch was November to December 2022. And then, uh, then back, and then back on 4-423. Oh, then maybe, I don't know. And then at the end of December and April, they started to see him one time a week. So they lessened the suicide watch. And I just said the word I'm not supposed to say. Sorry, YouTube.

But that's what it is. So it was a constant, more severe, because whenever there is more severe imminent harm, It is a constant daily watch. But they placed him as not exhibiting imminent danger, but it was some confessions that made her then consider closer watch. So again, let me explain what I just said as I read my kind of notes that were all over the place. He came in.

It was every 15 minutes. Then as he allegedly confessed to her, which we're about to learn, they decided he perhaps didn't. need closer monitoring and they did consider imminent danger. She explains that in a situation where we start, let's see, oh, in a situation where we start off with a standard S watch, this is what happens when someone on S watch, they have a mattress that is bolted, they have a safety blanket. So they can't have regular blankets because for safety purposes, they have safety

blankets. They have a kimono that they can wear. It's a safety article of clothing. They have a tablet. They have books. They have a blanket. They have their commissary. They are usually not allowed all of these things in the prison. But when he arrived, they actually wanted him to have these things at the beginning of his stay. So they gave him additional items that the other inmates did not have. And again, he wasn't a convicted inmate. He had been charged and not convicted. So, I mean, it's good to hear they gave him additional things. So he had these things at the beginning of his stay. For S-watch, there are some unique things, other things that he cannot have. They cannot have utensils, for example, for safety issues or styrofoam. Don't know what that's about,

but those on S-watch cannot have styrofoam. The meals are made more safe. In a document, there is something called patient complaint, which makes notes and it's entered into the system. So Richard Allen can actually make patient complaints because he's on S-watch, thus a patient. And they typically start each day in the cubicle or Dr. Walla would start with him and ask him how he was doing.

So the prosecution asks her, did you talk about not discussing his case? And she said, yes. Did you discourage Richard Allen from talking about his case? She said, yes, I believed that he understood the dangers of discussing his case. So it's interesting. It's something that's supposed to do. Like, by the way, might not be that good idea to discuss your case with me.

she also explains that she found Richard Allen to be intelligent and you know I'm going to pause there and share something I thought when watching his interviews and interrogations I can't tell you an IQ or intelligence but I can't say he just seemed the way he spoke he seemed like a regular

man you would meet like there was nothing like a learning disability or anything like that I can't tell you if he's intelligent or not but he certainly wasn't dumb, like watching the interview. He just came across as someone, yeah, that was decently smart and normal. So she explains that she found him intelligent and a good communicator. And then there's a question for her. Mr. Allen, did he understand the dangers of discussing his case?

So they asked this again. And she explains, yes, he understood the dangers, although there were different answers from him at different times. So then we're going to go through several dates of him, like making notes, of her taking notes. Let's get to it. On April 5, 2023, Alan discussed, Alan discussed the case with Dr. Walla. After all that warning, he's allegedly discussing the case with Dr. Walla.

and then he becomes tearful. And then this is his first alleged confession to her. He says, I killed Abby and Libby. I'm sorry. I made sure that they were dead because I didn't want them to suffer. And I did all of this on my own. And then there's an objection from the defense.

They suggest that the process, prosecution or state is leading Dr. Walla and it's sustained by the judge. So they reword their question. The state asks, did he talk about if the victims were deceased before he left the scene? And yes, he said that he wanted to make sure that they were deceased. So again, so that they didn't suffer, he explained. She then goes on to explain that Richard Allen told her. his psychologist, Dr. Walla, that his intentions were sexual in nature.

He reported thinking that the girls were 18 or 19 years old, but then realized that they could be as young as 11. He talked about being selfish his whole entire life and that he was so selfish that he was so selfish that he took Abby and Libby's life in order to preserve his own. He wished to apologize to the families, and he wished that he could change his actions. He then alluded to a sex addiction, and then this is Richard Allen reporting, that he alluded to him having a sex addiction, and he admitted to molesting his sister and that this addiction started when he was younger looking at magazines and male and and then male and female children,

his age in experimenting. And that's when the problem began. So I got the idea that what he was saying is this began in childhood, something. And then it started actually with him also. Well, let's see. He looted. Okay, let's keep going. That comes later. Um, he reported taking God into his heart. And he asked on March 21st, 2023, if Dr. Walla believed in God. He hopes everyone finds God. And then he actually shared a scripture. I, and I could not hear it was Psalms 20.

And then I put 26, but I don't know if that's right. But he shared a scripture from Psalm. So, yeah. song and he he said that he gives his life away he gives it to someone oh he he would like to give his life away and give to someone who he thinks might need help question did he express remorse for his actions the state asks dr walla he says that he wishes he could go back and apologize to the families then she asks how he was doing in the department of corrections in regard to his mental help or she is asked how he's doing in the Department of Corrections during this time in regards

to his mental health. Dr. Wallace said that he expressed appreciation at this time for his family and told Dr. Walla that he was happier at this moment than he'd ever been, despite it being such a terrible place. They asked, the state asked, does religion matter for inmates? Like, does religion and what they believe matter? Yes, it matters. because it can imply things. And Dr. Wallace said that he asked to speak to the chaplain. He asked for a Bible and that he also asked about Dr. Walla's own faith. What kind of things do you put in your observations?

How was he behaving? Her answer was that he actually had like a calm affect that he had a calm and bizarre smile. Oh, he was calm, but he had a calm. but he had a bizarre smile and it is sort of this matter of fact matter. The info came that he shared with very little prompting. So she gave very little prompting. And there, but he sort of explained that he had this sort of religiosity

and he also at this time claimed a memory lapse. She suggested that there was potential feigning. That means malingering, or exaggerating or sort of acting some of these symptoms. And she suggested that that was happening, that, you know, in other words, that he may have drank water out of the toilet, but maybe it was,

there was also some running water, but that he did drink water out of the toilet, but that maybe he was delirious due to not eating. Then she's asked, is this the same then as being manipulative, feigning symptoms? Um, I didn't get the answer to that. I couldn't hear. I'm, I couldn't hear.

So I'm not even going to try to tell you. But that was asked. Is this the same as manipulating, feigning? Couldn't get the answer. We'll hear it one day if audio ever comes out. Um, when communicating the confession, this confession, was this the first time he confessed to you? She's asked.

She wrote, or she said, yes. were you aware he was already making confessions? Yes. Were you aware she was asked if he was making confessions to the warden? Her answer is, yeah, I believe so. I knew it this time. And again, to remind you, yesterday she was asked, or yesterday the warden testified and he shared confessions

that Richard Allen allegedly made to him. him. So they're saying, were you aware that he was already making confessions to the warden to? Yes, I believe so. Was there anything, was there nothing odd about his appearance? No, nothing odd about his appearance. Did he make eye contact? She said sometimes his eye contact was normal, but there were various presentations in his eye contact. There was staring, intermittent, it went away. Did his mental status have any concern to you at this time? She said, said his emotions were up and down. There was a thought process. And in his thought process, there were some tangents that he would go on and he wouldn't return from his tangents.

But other times, he would return. Honestly, during this moment, I was like, that sounds like me. Sometimes I go on tangents and I don't return and other times I return. No, I don't know what she means by that. But admittedly, I thought, hmm, I hope I'm okay. But she said that sometimes his thought process was normal, various presentations. staring intermittent, and then thought process tangents and would not return occasionally. What about his mental status? Were there any delusions or hallucinations? No, there were none reported. I was there listening and he would process. He appeared not suicidal, had questions like drinking. Oh, I was questioning things, though, like,

like drinking from the toilet. But he was cooperative and communicative. Ideally, we needed to work on some meaningful concerns that we had like depression and anxiety. And so he came to Dr. Wallach for those specific concerns, the anxiety and the depression were priority and why he, what they would address. The next doc in the exhibit that they're handing to the judge, jury at this point now would be May 2nd, 2023.

And this was under a patient complaint. Again, there are patient complaints that they can fill out. And a patient is him. He's a patient of Dr. Walla. And so they ask, where did you see Richard Allen this day? And she explained in the cubicle and how was he, was he focused on the same stuff as usual on this. date. And she said, yes, he made more statements about Abby and Libby on this date. So this is May

23. And this is, this is what he said. It was, it was interesting. And he talked about, he said, I killed Abby and Libby. I killed everyone. I will, I will. Oh, yeah, this. I, okay, yeah, this was, Okay, I got it. I killed Abby and Libby. I killed everyone. I will wipe the whole world at once. And then he talked about like starting World War III. So pretty extreme. I killed Abby and Libby. I killed everyone. I will wipe the whole world at once. I talk and then he spoke about World War three. Then he asked if it was okay to kill himself or. And then after, He said that he said, but I do not want to die. Then he says that I would kill.

This was strange. This was strange. So I'm just rereading it. It was an odd moment, guys. But he said, like, I killed myself by killing my entire family and my best friends. Is that how he said it? It was, yeah, I'm getting, I'm getting a nod. Like something about, well, let me ask.

Hold on. Okay, so I have one of my friends from court across the table from me. Thank heavens. Like, she's the one that came over. to bring me some of her notes and we compared so she's hanging out here and listening. And she agrees. She's like, this was confusing because it didn't make sense.

And I will say that there was one moment. There were some things that weren't making sense. And there was a part of me that was like, am I missing something? Like I'm feeling really confused in the courtroom here. And then there was one moment where Dr. Wall explained, I know this feels chopped up because she was like reading her notes.

And she said, but literally this was a bit of his thought process. So I don't know if this is one of those times. But something about killed myself by killing my entire family and best friends or I'm going to. But then he explains he's not going to kill himself. And he and maybe and then I did put a question mark by that to double check it. And then there was this mental illness section. And she explained that he was doing things with his own feces and they discussed why.

And when asked why, he said he was insane. And then she said, why? Um, why? Because I'm insane. And then he said that he was afraid that there was no water. And she said, it didn't make any sense because there is water. He had water. Um, there was a, there was clinical observation and he had difficulty staying on topic. His behavior improved. He was not psychotic or as, as she explains that he did not present as psychotic. They talked about self care a lot. Self care was very important, especially when it comes to depression and anxiety. And And it also helps to show that self-harm is not an issue when there's self-care. And that was her goal to make sure that he wasn't in danger. And so he would go back and forth from saying he wanted to die and then not. And then he did. At this moment, he was enjoying books, puzzles, documents, tablets.

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Just use code Hidden True Crime to save 20% off. Plus, if you subscribe, you'll get an additional 20% off. Discover your true age today. Then it was asked if his behavior improved, and she said, yes. And then she explained that there was a time where she felt there perhaps was a psychotic disorder, but it would remit back and forth. And on this particular day, there were no signs of it. did you request from him what did all you request from him was that self-care and she said yes i requested

that he eat shower and stay active and you guys if these notes feel jumbled or confusing i i honestly think they were like i said they're handing out these exhibits to the jury she's sort of reading her notes and sometimes she's quoting him sometimes she's writing what she writes sometimes she's writing what he wrote. And it was, and she was very quiet and she would read it like this. So the state asked, did he participate in conversations with you? And did that help? She said, yes, he participated in conversations.

And I like to think that helped. She said, it was this time that he was on constant supervision. And we kept him on constant supervision. And he was provided a tablet. And then, but, but then on this particular day, he did not have a tablet. Why did he not have one? Well, it appeared that Richard Allen had broke his tablet. Well, how does an inmate get a TV?

Why did he not have a TV? And it was, he chose not to have one. So he broke his tablet and denied a TV. And on this day, was he cooperative? Yes, he was. And then she put an addendum in this moment, and she made reference. to a diagnosis. And you know what?

I think this is the next date. Let me get the date on this. There were a lot of dates, guys. No, this is still May 2nd. At least that's what I have. All right. So a reference to a diagnosis, this is what she wrote.

A brief psychotic disorder. In other words, it's situational psychosis. And here are the symptoms. if someone has the situational psychosis. And with with the symptoms, you need to display one or more symptoms to be diagnosed. And the first one is delusions or hallucinations. He did not have those. She did not mark it.

The second one is disorganized speech. She checked that. So if you guys have felt this has been a little bit disorganized and it felt disorganized today. He has some disorganized speech, and she also marked disorganized behavior. So the two reasons that she made a reference to this diagnosis of situational psychosis was disorganized speech and disorganized behavior, and he did not have delusions or hallucinations. And then she said that if this goes beyond a month, it turns into another diagnosis. The next day, May 3, 2023.

So after this, he wanted to call his wife and he wanted Dr. Walla's help in assisting to make phone calls. And Richard Allen said directly to Dr. Walla, I want to confess to killing Abby and Libby. I want to do this. At first, hold on. Give me a moment really quickly. Okay, I talked myself through that one, actually. So he's saying to her, I want to call my wife and confess.

But this is not when he calls his wife. That's later. This is what he says to her. I want to call my wife and confess to killing Abby and Libby. Let me tell you what happened. And he says, and this is what I shared on my lunch life earlier. He states, I saw my parents that morning. My sister came over and they all wanted to go to lunch.

but I opted for a six-pack instead, and I drank three beers. I went home, I bundled up a lot, and then once I got on the trail, I saw the girls, and I followed the girls. I did something with a gun. I figured that's where the bullet fell out. I ordered them down the hill,

and then I was going to rape them. I saw their ages. And then I saw a van. Pause. In my lunch live, I said man. About half of the courtroom wrote man and the other half wrote van. And it was van. This is very important.

So you saw the girl's ages and after that moment he saw a van which scared him, V-A-N. And so he killed the girls. He indicated that he wanted to make sure that they were dead. He covered them with branches and he exited the trail. He left the scene by staying off the trail. He returned to his car and he managed to continue his life. After he shared that, he said he felt relieved and, no, he didn't say it. Dr. Wallace said he appeared relieved.

He said he felt power and he admitted also to her this day that he would not kill himself because he is a coward. But if he died, he mostly wanted his wife to know that he loved her. Forgive me. Okay. She explains that while he said some odd things here or there, that he was relatively normal in this situation while not as organized. They asked her if there were any psychotic symptoms during this moment,

and she said, no, he did not present any psychotic symptoms at this time. They asked Dr. Walla if he was responding to the treatment plan, and she said, at this point in time, I think he was. And then the state asked, Was he more organized than when he was placed on suicide watch? And she mentioned, I put a question mark. Don't know what she said. Then they ask her, the state asks her, can he be on S watch, but still be allowed property,

blankets, clothing, and tablets? She said yes, but they actually keep sheets and clothing away because of the self-harm safety issue. And they explained, did they have a special blanket? Yes. And now we're on May 5th. Evaluation of S-Watch happens periodically. And they test for risk factors. And the risk factors they test for are historical, clinical, and then physical and

protective, all these risk factors that he might have for S-watch. And she's asked, if there is ever an action or treatment planned. And she states that, yes, every six months. they review an action or treatment plan. And the number one goal is to always ensure his safety and mental help. And again, they were specifically targeting his depression and anxiety. They went back and then they changed back to 10 minute interval checks to checking on him. And then on May 9th, he says, I just want to sign my confession.

and Dr. Wallace said to him, I told him to discuss that with his attorneys. They asked at this moment, is his mental health improving? And she states that he said he have thoughts of self-harm and he wanted to plan his last meal, but he also wanted to help others and get a job, but then he would go back to saying he would be better off dead.

There was an assessment on the last page, and he had some psychotic symptoms. Oh, no, excuse me. He did not have psychotic symptoms. So he was not exhibiting any psychotic symptoms that day. On 510, there were issues with Richard Allen being able to use a phone and his tablet was broken. And he was able to finally get a phone to use with him.

So they're in this place together having treatment. He has difficulty getting a phone. His tablet's broken. He finally gets a phone. and he says to Dr. Walla, I want to connect to my wife. Dr. Wallace says that I left the room, and then I came back and he didn't work. And then he wanted to try calling her again. He wanted to call her back to tell her he did it.

And he wanted her to hear it to understand. He asked if his family loved him and that. that he might spend the rest of his life in prison. He mentioned an electric chair, and he hoped he could see his wife one last time. And then he said to his wife, while Dr. Wall is listening. So it was Kathy Allen on the phone. I killed Abby and Libby.

Kathy said, stop saying that. The call ended. And Richard Allen stated, she doesn't believe me. The notes that she wrote that day, it sounded like a pleasant call, and after that he seemed okay, he didn't cry,

no evidence of psychosis. So, yeah, so again, that whole phone call, I want to clarify, that whole phone call was he asked if his family loved him, he might spend the rest of his life in prison, he mentioned the electric chair,

he hoped he could see Kathy one last time, and then he said, I led, he said, I killed Abby and Libby, Kathy said, stop saying that. The call ended. Richard Allen says she doesn't believe me.

I mean, we did through that. And then the da-da-da-da-da is that it sounded like a pleasant call. After that, he seemed okay. He did not cry. There was no evidence of psychosis. Now we're on to May 11th. On May 11th, he mentioned he wanted closure by apologizing to the families. He just wanted to see his wife.

And he still needed to forgive himself. He doesn't know what closure looks like for him. The August 3rd report is that he stated that he wanted to go to heaven. He asked if he could contact his wife. And, oh, he was asked if he contacted his wife. And Richard Allen said, I can't. But I want to talk to her and I want to see my family. He explained that he felt like he was dying.

He was fearing that his heart was maybe failing him. And he had had a heart attack before. And so he worried that he would die. before seeing his family and he did not feel well. He was feeling confused because, quote, I don't know if I'm going to be able to go to heaven, end quote. He was realizing he needed to let his wife go. He said, in quote, I just need to let my wife go.

And then we had a break. And then back on the stand was Dr. Walla once again. And she's asked, do you recall Richard Allen's physical appearance? And she answered, Yes, he was about 180 pounds when he first came in. And that's interesting because that's a lot bigger than I think he is right now. I'm, I'm guesstimating, but I believe that, you know, he's about 5.5.

He's pretty skinny. She said that he believed he was at 180 pounds when he came in, but then he started refusing meals. And he, but he was taking care of himself by exercising and he was actually losing weight. And Dr. Wall explained that in the prison, if you miss three meals, meals, it's okay. But if you miss four meals, then they actually have to report that. And so he was actually missing some meals, but he was always careful to not miss the fourth meal. So he made a conscious effort to never miss that fourth meal. And he was very satisfied with himself for losing weight. It seemed as if that was an effort and he was trying to do that and working out. So on November 10th,

2022. There were times that he would refuse to come out and he thought he was a burden. And he was told that he didn't have an option to refuse that he needed to come out. And Dr. Wall encouraged him to come out. And but he was confused at who he should be speaking to because he had not been assigned a public defender at that moment. Again, we're back to November of 2022. So they started on some 2023 alleged confessions, but now we're going back to when he, when he entered the system or about, like he was arrested in October, October 26th, 2022, and now it's November 10th, 2022. So just right when he's enters in. And then, like, we're going all over the place. And it's not me. It's this, I'm just telling you an order what

happened in court. So that's November 10th, 2022. And then now they jump to April 7th, 2023. I don't know why they're doing it this way, but here we are on April 7th, 2023 now. And there's a patient complaint. And they ask, patient complaint area, did Mr. Allen make patient complaints? Yes. And a question, though, was, was he aware that he had confessed? And Dr. Wallet's answer is, I told him he confessed. And I said it was not in his best interest. and it was not something his attorneys would want for you to do and for your safety, you should not talk about it. He felt that he was being, I then Dr. Wall explains that she felt that he was being more

blatant with memory loss and bizarre behavior. And again, she suspected some feigning or lingering or some over exaggerating of symptoms. And at this day on April 17th, 2020, when she kind of said, like, you've confessed, but I wouldn't recommend that you confess because I don't think that that would be smart. He said, well, I didn't sign anything then, did I? So he asked her that on that day, like, am I still good? Because I haven't signed anything.

And then she's also saying that at this kind of same time, she's seeing that he's over-exaggerating, perhaps or acting out some of his symptoms. She also believes that he was feigning memory loss as well. And then we jump to April 10th, 2023, patient complaint paragraph from that. And again, the jury is receiving all of these, this database. They're going through it. Patient complaint paragraph. They met outside of his cell that day.

There was some odd behaviors. He was against a wall. He was raising and lowering his arms against a wall and he was naked. There were papers strewn all over his floor in a cell and he was talking to himself. He was doing something to his penis. I missed the word. And he had some religious preoccupation. So that was what she filled out.

And then she explains that this, again, was the day that, then they asked, well, what papers were strewn all over his cell? So this is important. So she's explaining again, all these problems, very strange behavior, raising and lowering arms and papers strewn all over the floor. And so the state asks her, what papers? And she answers, I assume the ones he got from the discovery. And they say, what's a discovery?

Well, the discovery was in there. And they had concerns of others seeing the discovery and safety of other inmates. So I remember this day well. They removed other inmates at this day as compared. and they replaced it with staff. So let me explain this. This is important. She's laying out a timeline.

And it starts with the warden yesterday. So again, the warden, according to the warden of the Westfield correction facility, things started getting worse with Richard Allen when he received his legal papers or his discovery. And that's also when some confessions started to happen. And we also heard yesterday from a bunch of correctional officers that were his S companions watching him and making sure. The defense has claimed that originally there were some inmates, fellow inmates, well not, you know, inmates assigned as S companions, which seems odd to many people, including myself. So now they're explaining the timeline, so it's really helpful to all the information we've received. that on this date in April 10th,

10th, he started acting very strange. Very odd behaviors, raising, lowering hands, papers strewn all over the floor, talking to himself, doing something with his genitals that I missed, and religious preoccupation, the papers that were strewn were the discovery, the legal papers that arrived. When this discovery arrived,

the prison staff had concerns, that other inmates should not see these papers, that it was private, that it was personal, that they had concerns. And so at that moment, they also no longer had inmate S companions. They switched to only correctional officers. So just to point out that at this point onward,

it was only employees of the Department of Corrections that were his S companions. And this, again, was the moment he was, received the discovery. They replaced the S companion, the inmate S companions with staff. And it was on April 5th that he confessed and then April 10th this discovery comes. It seems, so on April 5th, he made a confession, April 10th, the legal papers, the discovery comes, all the information and evidence from his case. And Dr. Wallach says that it seemed that he received discovery around the same time that he was confessed.

guessing. The warden didn't want the inmates or the companions to see the discovery so they switched him out with officers. On April 12th, she saw Mr. Allen outside of his cell. He was clapping and banging and kicking. So when she arrived at a cell to transport him, he was clapping and banging and kicking the door and masturbating and continued to do so after I approached the door. He was naked. He was touching his genitals. He refused to wear or put on his kimono. And so I had to explain to him that there would be no recreation time because you cannot go naked if he didn't get dressed. This was the one time he refused to leave. He's refused to leave. And the recreation staff spent an hour dealing with it. On April 13th, 2023, they were informed his behavior escalated and that he was laying in his feces. They held a meeting with the warden, a psychiatrist, and others looking into medications. The psychiatrist offered meds unsuccessfully, but it was determined at this time that he did not qualify for involuntary injection. So in other words, while they were looking into meds and he was offered meds, he wasn't at a place where they could give him meds by force, which would be an injection.

And she suggested that it was possible that he was feeling guilt or loss after seeing the discovery, that he appears little to no sleep since S-Watch lasts a few weeks, a couple of days, no sleep. And this can affect presentation. At this moment, the prosecution or the state asked, do you still think he's feigning? she stated possible, but it doesn't matter because he is declining so we have to do something. So in other words, whether he's malingering or faking or over exaggerating or not, it doesn't matter because he's declining and whatever this is and whatever he's doing, they have to do something about it. They have to take care of the situation.

There was at this time a decision for an involuntary injection. In other words, to medicate him. On April 17th, 2023, Richard Allen had a greasy, dirty cell window. There's only just one little cell window, right? He's got a door and there's just like a little window. He had a greasy dirty window. His eyes were closed. He had one hand raised and he was speaking or mouthing words like praying.

Richard Allen was coherently calling her name and asking to talk. She explained that he was, Dr. Wall explained that he was acting bizarrely. just sort of stops when I walk away and he calls my name. And then it is asked of Dr. Walla, are you aware of psychosis and inmates? She says yes. And can you make a diagnosis? She explains that she says yes,

but she always needs enough info. They ask her to read a second paragraph of her notes that day. And she explains that he came out to talk, but his eyes were closed for the entire session. I agree, Laura. Laura, thank you for being here. I called Laura right before I went live too. He comes out to talk. His eyes were closed for the entire session and he made some efforts to convey thoughts and nightmares or dreams that he was having. Dr. Walla thought that it might be from the last. Dr. Walla said that, um,

Hold on. Okay, doctor, so he, he wanted to convey nightmares or dreams he was having. And Dr. Walla thought the nightmares or dreams might be from the last two weeks because of receiving the discovery that he was having more nightmares and dreams. And, and Richard Allen explained that his nightmares, in his nightmares that more people were dying due to his selfishness. And he was afraid that he had lied so much that he had actually become separated from reality. and he had disjointed thoughts. He explained that he wished he had had a medical illness to explain that if he dies and that explain what was wrong with him.

And then he said, if he dies and the whole world ended, then the last thing he remembered in his nightmare, the last thing he remembered is that he ignited a nuclear war after his death. Dr. Walla asked Richard Allen, what have you been doing the last few weeks? And Richard Allen said, singing and marching. And Dr. Wall pointed out that Richard Allen was right, that the past few weeks he had been singing and marching.

Those were his behaviors that he was doing. On 41423, his meds, his medication did improve some. And but she also doesn't know if it was because he was also getting more sleep because he had had a significantly, he was not sleeping as much. and now he was sleeping better. So there was medication and there was more sleep, but he did not have any hallucinations, but he did have paranoia and unorganized thoughts,

but still no hallucinations. And then they say, well, we would like to bring your attention to April 21st, 23. Let's just keep going. Questions for Dr. Walla? Are you documenting all of this bizarre behavior? She says, yes, I am.

She asked, did you find him? him to be, oh, she says that she found him to be genuine and believable at this time. And then on April 25th, 2023, hold on. Pause. So on April 25th, 20203, she was trying to get information as he struggled with mental health. But, and she was trying to find out his history, in other words, like, what's your history with mental health? She was trying to get more info on it. But he denied having any of these issues before. And then she started to wonder, though, if he was not taking his medications like Prozac or Syracquel that he had been prescribed. And they also, this came later in the day, but that he did

come, like, already taking Prozac. And really, Richard Allen just said, look, that his biggest issue, that his biggest issue was that he was missing his wife and daughter. And so Dr. Walla said that she actually finally requested to have in-person visits with his wife. And this is not typical for this location. This episode sponsored by Sheeks. Summer heat is coming. And if you're already waking up hot at night, you need to try Sheeks. I switched to Sheeks because I was constantly overheating, throwing off the covers, flipping the pillow, waking up sweaty. Their sheets are made with the same performance fabric used in athletic wear. So they help keep you cool, dry, and comfortable all night long, and they're incredibly soft, not slick or stiff, just cool,

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And these visits, she admitted, probably would not have ever happened had it not been for her effort. So Dr. Wallen made these visits with his wife, Kathy Allen, possible. On April 28th, 2023, he was laying on the bed naked. And she asked him to come out. And he said that he needed to shower first. And she explained to him that he didn't have time to shower. And she noticed, though, that there was this pretty, you know, there was a smell coming from his cell. And in her mind, though, that she felt this was like a positive thing because it was, she thought it was positive because it showed improved insight that he needed a shower.

So in other words, she's like, I don't want to come out until I shower. And she's like, you know what? Yeah, you smell. That cell smell. So she chalked that up to a positive of improved insight. They talked about the visit with his wife and it was important to him. and then he again said that he was selfish, and he flushed a Bible down the toilet, and he complained that he didn't have food or water.

That confuser, he was probably, if he didn't have food, he was probably refusing food. But if he didn't have water, the only possibility really was that he could be flooding his cell. It could be shut off due to a consequence. So if they have water in their cell, but if they're flooding their cell or doing something with the water, the consequence is that they turned the water off for a time. But so he was complaining that he didn't have food or water this day. She said that she did not see him as psychotic. It's possible that he was depressed due to a lack of self-care and motivation felt gamey. All right.

And then the cross exam happens with Rosie. it got interesting right away, in my opinion. So Rosie comes up and as he gets up, he looks at Dr. Walla and he says, in quotes, nice to see you. And she smiles at him. And honestly, this is how I took it. This gets interesting. She perks up, in my opinion, for the defense.

I thought, oh, this is interesting. Like she, she, like, she smiled at him when he said, nice to see you. And she kind of sat up and I rode down in my notes that it seemed like she was perking up for the defense. Wait for it. Well, hold on. They go over her background that she's been a psychologist, that she became a psychologist in 2008. Before that, she was in the mental health field for a while longer because she has, again, her master's in counseling.

She's been in the mental health field for quite some time. there's more smiles going on. And I'm like, what is this? And then Rosie asks a question, you're not working in the Department of Corrections anymore, are you? She says, no, I'm not. And you're not allowed in the prison anymore, are you? And she says, that's right.

I still work for Wexler. That's the company that she's always been employed by. they're the ones that contract out to the Department of Corrections, but she cannot be at the Westville Correctional Facility anymore. Well, where are you working? She said another facility. She's like, well, what facilities? And she goes, well, do I really need to share?

I'd rather not on the stand, share it where I'm working. Makes sense. So I'm like, okay, this is interesting. Are you familiar with the personal circumstances of this? case. She says, sure. You were following this case before treating Richard Allen on podcasts. You were following on podcasts and on Facebook, weren't you? She says, yes. You had a personal interest in this case already, didn't you? She says, yes. And at some point, Rosie says, Richard Allen was arrested and this caught your interest. And then there's a sidebar called

quickly. It was requested by the prosecution. I'm still like, what is going on? And my neighbor next to me in the courtroom, I'll leave this person anonymous. They're a local. They turned to me and they said, this is what they said. So the person next to me turned to me. I'm looking confused. I'm like, what's this relationship that's going on? What's going on? She doesn't have a job. She turns to me. and says, she goes, she's not going to fall for what he did to her last time, which is to build her up and then smash her in the pretrial hearing, and she lost her job over it.

And I just wrote back, I wrote that all down. I wrote, whoa. So, um, yeah. So, so allegedly,

I need more info. I can't confirm. of this, again, it came from someone in the courtroom to me. And some of you might know those that were really following the pretrial hearing. I read the transcripts or I thought I read the transcripts well. I don't remember this part of the pretrial hearing. I listed a podcast about the pretrial hearing, trying to catch up. If people are here that have been following this case, let us know. But what I'm gathering is that, well, it seems to kind of be confirmed here that there was an investigation after the pretrial hearing back in August when it was brought up that she had this sort of personal interest in the case and she was listening to podcasts. And you're exactly right, moderator. She said she still works for the same employer, but can't work in the prison specifically. So let's make that clear. So technically she didn't lose her job. That's right. There's no losing her job, but she does not work at the Westville Correctional facility anymore.

more. And again, what I heard from my, my, my courtroom neighbor was an opinion, but it was set to me and I wrote it down. I don't want it to just share that. So back, so the sidebar finishes and they say to her, they had to do an investigation because the info that you're accessing, the public didn't have. And, oh, no, that was a question. Excuse me. They asked her, was there info that you were accessing that the public didn't have? That was a question.

And then they say, because you were listening to specific, they never, she never really answered that question, by the way, so I don't know where that was going. But then they said specific podcasts, you were listening to the specific podcast. and they said, Richard Snai, Defense Diaries, Gray Hughes, criminality,

the prosecutors, you were on online chat rooms, and you were on Facebook. And then she says yes. And then they had a question for Dr. Walla. You admitted to me just that act alone was

a conflict with the APA guidelines. And yes. And then and then Rosie says, and after Richard Allen's arrest, your interest actually peaked even more in this case. And then she states, hold on really quickly,

muting them. And she's, then she stayed, I just confirmed it. I'm like, I have, then she stated I lost my job. And then there was a question. But before, but before you lost your job, he says, you would commute to gather info and listen to podcasts. And she said, yes. And then someone pointed out to you, someone, then someone, they said, pointed out online that you were following this stuff and you shut down all of your counts down. She said, yes.

And you never disclosed to your employer that you had this info until after. after you, oh, you didn't ever disclose to your employer that you had this info until after you were seeing Richard Allen. And then she said, well, I can't recall. And so a question by the defense, well, did you report to an employee about following this case? Like, did you ever do that report to an employee that you had that you were following this case? she said yes but i didn't report anything formal and then she goes i was told that i i did tell them that i had conversations i did have conversation she explains with both of her employees and he said but you didn't tell me that in the pretrial hearing she says well look my after testimony i was

reminded and my memory was refreshed and i was told by my employers that i had talked about this case And so I had talked about it. It just wasn't a formal thing that I did. But yes, I told them that I was following this case. And he goes, again, you told me under oath that you hadn't. And she said, I thought you meant that I hadn't formally. But I absolutely did tell my employers I was following this case. So then Rosie asks, well, if you could go back, would you stop following this case after getting Richard Allen as a patient?

She just probably. would you have would you have shared pre-trial online stuff with him were you compare were you conveying to richard okay were you conveying to richard allen things that you would hear online while you were following this case yes her answer was yes you said that he was depressed and anxious Yes. Then there's an objection. And Rosie is testifying. And there's an objection because, and I will say this.

This was funny. So there's an objection. Objection is that Rosie's testifying, that the defense is testifying. And Rosie says, look, I'm just trying to educate the jury. And they're like, well, it's not your job to educate the jury. That would be testifying. And he's like, they're like, let the witness educate the jury. And he was like, and it was a great moment.

The judge is like, ask her questions then. And I will say that Rosie does do that a lot. Like he kind of does pull off testifying. And admittedly, he pulls it off. Like they don't always object to it. But he does, he gets away with it a lot. But, you know, well done. I guess that makes a good defense attorney.

He gets at what he wants to say in his questions. Like his questions are often statements with, like a high-pitched question at the end of it with like up talk. So he'll make a statement with up-talk. So anyway, there was an objection and he had to, he had to change the way of his question in here. So he asks her, you told me that you are always assessing when you are in the presence of an inmate.

In other words, whenever she's in the presence of an inmate, no matter where or what, she's always kind of assessing them and their mental health. And she says, yes, that's true. You told me there was no official testing with Richard Allen, Rosie says to her. She says, right. And then he says, there are tests that could have been done in a therapeutic setting where they're not. And she says, yes, there were.

This is interesting to me. I mean, that she did no official like tests or written tests on them. I don't know the laws in Indiana. I don't know if she needs to be a forensic psychologist. She's a clinical psychologist. I do kind of find it surprising that she didn't do tests on them. But again, I can't say it was wrong of her not to either because I don't know protocol. So I just find it interesting.

That's all I'm saying. So there were tests that could have been done in therapeutic settings. Were they not? Rosie asked, she says yes. And you have interns that could bring tests up for you to use. No? She says yes. question yet you said he was diagnosed with major depressive disorder and her answer is well that's

what I have in his history so in other words Rosie is trying to say you're diagnosing him without tests and her point is no that was in his history so I'm just taking what's in his history and saying that he's been depressed with he's been diagnosed with major depressive disorder it's in his psychiatric history so that makes sense he had an anxiety disorder. He asks, yes. And you mentioned that he may have suffered from dependent personality disorder. She said, it's possible.

This is interesting. And, yeah, you know, my husband, my co-host, Dr. John brought this up too. This is interesting. Dependent personality disorder. She said, yeah, it's possible. Well, did he demonstrate symptoms of dependent personality disorder? She says, yes. And one of those symptoms, Rosie asks, is,

that he didn't like to be separated? Yes. Was Mr. Allen a fragile man? Yes. And was he accused of killing two girls? Yes. And was there, by the way, major objections during this time?

I just wrote that in the side because there were so many objections as he questioned about leading or testifying, including one of them was. So Mr. Allen was a fragile man. We're like, let's ask her if he's a fragile man. you know, so he reworded it. Was Mr. Allen a fragile man? Yes, he's accused of killing two girls. Yes. Was their

discussion of lights being on all the time in this S watch place? And she said, yes, but they could be dimmed. The lights were dimmed or could be dimmed. Well, you told me that they couldn't. And don't, let's skip what I wrote. Don't get it. Forgive me. And he says, was there no privacy in this cell? She said, right. There was there was no privacy, which I didn't really get because I thought they were in their own cell. Oh, I know why, because there's a camera in their cell that's videoing, that's a video all the time. There you go. Is there no privacy because there's a video in the, you know, in the cell all the time? Yes, correct. And did you ever watch the video of Richard Allen?

She says, I did. when the inmates enter the Westville Correctional Facility they are assigned a health code and there are five health codes A, B, C, D, E. The least severe is A and E is the most severe and Rick, that's what the defense calls him Rick.

Richard Allen was a four out of five with a D So he used pretty severe mental health code. And she said, yes, that's correct. All S watches are daily and mental health has daily access. And they did, and they did that. So yeah, he was on S watch when he came in. And so he was labeled a D and they monitored him daily. And now after lunch, there was, by the way, this was fascinating.

We got out for lunch and there was a line of people, people from the public, I've never seen lined up to see this trial. They were already standing lines. We all got back in line. And luckily, fingers crossed, we got back in. And that was kind of surprising. And it's great that the public's coming to see this trial. In fact, there were two girls there with their aunt. They were ages 13 and 16 going in to see their first trial. They were lined up at lunch. And there were sisters. I thought that was pretty cool. And my point, being though that after lunch, a lot of us were in the back row again.

And as I've reiterated, depending on the witness, it gets really hard to hear. And again, they still tell the witnesses, like, don't speak in the mic. And when there is a witness that has to read a lot of heard their notes,

they're actually, so the microphones like up here and they're looking down. And of course, Dr. Walla was handed. a lot of notes. So she's looking down. And I just have to admit, like I said it before and I'll just say it again. It was quite the frustrating day hearing.

And so I just want to apologize that things were not just as they just weren't easy today. So forgive me. And forgive me for what I missed. There are some chunks that I missed. So after lunch, we get in. I'm in the back again. And Rosie is asking what discovery is. She's explaining what discovery is.

It's the facts of the case and all the evidence. They explain what Richard Allen's diagnosis is when he arrives at the Westfield Correctional Facility, which is major depressive disorder. Tom, it's so good to see you. I sit oftentimes next to Tom in court. Go check out his YouTube channel. podcast. Thank you, Tom. Some days it's more organized than others. I appreciate that. And so his diagnosis when he arrives is major depressive disorder. They do an intake document 11, 18, 22 to

refresh her memory. And they ask her if he was different than the other offenders. And she said that she agrees with that. And then there's an objection to Rosie testifying. That's what I mentioned. Man, he often gets away with this, but this time it's sustained. Did Richard Allen, he asked, orientation training, yes.

Were there rules about showers, the rec room, food, commissary, phone? And she said, yes. And then he asked, do inmates complain to psychologists about the rules? She said, yes. And you talked about the TV and the kimono.

There's an objection. They say he's characterizing the evidence. And so I can't remember if it was sustained or not. Then he says, all of these things can be stressful, right? Wearing a kimono can be stressful, right? Rosie's asking. And then Rosie actually gets into a lot of the same questions. He asked the warden yesterday about his time.

in the prison, but this time he's asking Dr. Walla. Tell me about his cell. And he says, is the cell a cage? And she says, she explains it's a three foot by three foot space. Excuse me. Excuse me.

He asks the three foot by three foot is where they meet for therapy, not his cell that he's in. And so Rosie then says, well, I call it a cage, this three foot by three foot cubicle. Would you agree? I call it a cage. She says, I call it a therapy cell. Well, would you agree that it's not very, it's not a very therapeutic setting? And she claims it's all we have.

And then he says, and then she says, and then he said, well, is he in shackles in this three foot by three foot cage? And she says, well, when we transport. of them, when we transport them to the therapy cell, we have shackles, but when he is in there, we take them off. And he says, well, that's not what you said to me in the deposition. Do I need to refresh your memory? And she's like, really, we take the shackles off. He doesn't wear shackles while in this therapy, in this therapy cell. And he says, you said that he would even wear a waist shackle. And she reads and refreshes her memory from what Rosie finds from something that she said in the past. And it does indeed say that he wears waste shackles. And so she said, I just don't remember

this. I don't know why I would say that. He, when we enter the cell, he raises his hands up. And when he enters, we take off all shackles. I don't know who's right on that, but I write, Admittedly, guys, I sorry. In some ways, I feel like I really failed you today in many ways. I put right here, I missed a good amount. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Let's hope that we get audio and we can learn everything here.

They explain. Then he goes back to like, well, the transportation, when you get into the transportation to the dog cage, there's an ejection and it's sustained because he's testifying about a dog cage he goes into. then Rosie says, Dr. Walla, let me drive my attention to November 14th, 2020. There are concerns about inmate companions. And on the second paragraph, she reads it. And he asks, did he report to you that he was not having S ideations? Was he reporting that he worried about what others thought about him?

She said, yes. Was he having a hard time? adjusting to a safety plan. Yes. On 117.22, there's page one. There are historical risk factors. And none included that he spoke of being S-Aid. She wrote, yes, that's true.

And he was institutionalized in 2019. And then he said, and then there was a monitor report. And he was hearing things like what other inmates were saying, things that he did not like hearing. Now I'm going to switch to another thing of notes here. Forgive me. So where Rosie's getting is this is important. So let's go back a little bit.

He's saying he's kind of trying to say that perhaps can you trust anything Richard Allen says it's an interesting take. He says, look, you're going over as historical risk factors, things before he entered prison. And none of these were reported or talked about, including him being. sexually abused, which you reported that he told you. And also, he was institutionalized in 2019. Here's the S monitor report.

And he was hearing things that he was not used to hearing. And he heard noises and other inmates. And he was already stressed about what happened after he got out of prison. And there's all these things. So can you, and he complained about the things people were saying and they were taunting and they were shouting baby killer at him. So he was already stressed about what happened after he got out. And if he did, how he would live.

And he's very concerned at this moment. Now put a pin in that. So then it's 119, he said that he wrote and he complained about things that people were saying and taunting and shouting. And that included baby killer. On 1110, he thought it was a psychology game to, to tear him down. On 1121, he communicated that he felt he was being treated as if he was already guilty and that he would never be okay with being in prison for some things he didn't do.

And on 1122, he said that the trip back to Delphi was strange and scary. He was sitting in a box and it was so good to know that the evidence did not point at him. On 1125, he presents as extremely selfish when it comes to his wife. On 1116, there was a complaint that he wasn't able to get a regular toothbrush from commissary and there was no TV or desk. He was sleeping on the floor and he felt like he was being treated worse than most convicted. and he couldn't have a visit in person with his wife. These are all complaints that Richard Allen is writing down that he has on or that he's reporting.

On 1117, another complaint that he was complaining of the cell conditions. And then there's an objection and he's saying the objection is, wait, no, let's skip that. right so he's complaining of cell conditions so again my point is complaint after complaint after complaint one after the other all in november by richard allen okay on april 4th 23 they asked did you observe clinical risk factors she states yes did he have more self-injury ideation and did he believe that death would bring he believed that death would bring relief he believed it he had a whole hopelessness, he had helplessness, and he had agitation, and he had despair. On 413, 413 conclusions, did you discover that he had a grave disability?

I didn't get the answer to that, or it was almost like she didn't answer. But there was discussion at this time about involuntary meds, the shot, that he didn't want it, a shot that he didn't want, Haldol. It's an anti-psychotic shot. So that's the involuntary shot. I probably didn't mention that earlier. And then there was an assessment,

and they asked her, did you report at this time that his cognitive issues had worsened? She wrote, yes. And was this a time where he got the, and he did get the shot? So after things worsened on May 18th, 23, he received a secondary injection.

And it was this involuntary medication, the Haldol shot, antipsychotic. Had it the second time. It lasts 30 days and so it should extend to June. Do you recall him receiving the injection in June? She says, I don't know. May 26th, 23 at 128 p.m. He had two black eyes. Does it appear that he was self-harming?

Yes. Wait. Yeah. Yeah. Two black eyes. So two black eyes. And it appeared as if he was self-harming. I got a nod from my friend that's here. Yes, exactly. I'm like, check myself. Yeah. Mom, can you tell me a story? Sure. Once upon a time, a mom needed a new car. Was she brave? She was tired, mostly. But she went to Carbana.com and found a great car at a great price. No secret treasure map. required. Did you have to find a dragon? Nope. She bought it 100% online from her bed, actually. Was it scary? Honey, it was as unscary as car buying could be. Did the car have a sunroof? It did, actually. Okay, good story. Car buying you'll want to tell stories about. Buy your car today on... Carvana. Delivery fees may apply. So the Haldol shots were not working then, is asked. And also, they mentioned, you testified, Dr. Wallet, that you had nothing to do with it. medications because you're a treating psychologist, you're not a psychiatrist. And is it not important, though, to have knowledge of his medications? How would you not know about this Hal Dahl's shot? Like, why don't you know the results of this and why aren't you following it? So just a lot of accusations about her treatment and if she's really taking all the notes she needs or understands what's going on.

Mr. Allen received another injection on June 4th because there were clues of self-harm with the head banging. There was an emergency to stop the head banging. And honestly, Rosie, I think, kind of wanted to say at this point that he believed that at this point, Richard Allen is being overmedicated. But he didn't say it. He stopped before that, and that's just my speculation. On July 26, 23, Rosie asks, Dr. Wallet, did you observe some physical characteristics that

got your attention like his eyes bulging? And she said yes. And they asked, did you consider it to be a product of depression? She says, not necessarily. I think that's interesting. By the way,

pause, because I've gotten some criticism on this, rightfully so. I have been saying in the past, I haven't said it recently, but I have been saying in the past that Richard Allen had beady eyes. And people pointed out that beady technically means small eyes.

And you're right. I shouldn't have said beady eyes. What I meant to say, I probably should have said, bug eyes or bulging eyes that sort of Richard Allen has big eyes and I realized I should have used a better adjective. So I find it interesting though that last year in July that she was actually observing some physical characteristics that got her attention which is bulging eyes. So now I have to wonder if there's something going on that I don't know about. They ask Dr. Walla, Rosie

asked Dr. Walla, do you think that these bulging eyes might be a product of depression? She says, not necessarily. On August 16th, 23, they have an additional clinical observation. There's a change in physical characteristics. His eyes are no longer protruding out of his head as they had been for weeks or for months. So maybe not. Maybe he's doing okay now. On 11-8, 2022, Dr. Walla writes down that he's, his height is five,

foot five. There you go. Our first official, we've heard five foot four. And she's saying five foot five. His weight is 173 pounds on 11, 8, 22. This would be shortly after his arrest, because again, he was arrested in October of 22. And then there's a question. There have been a few references to how Alan met with an attorney and his behavior changed and that this is also tied in with the discovery. Yes, that's what everybody's saying, that everybody in the prison is sort of implying that things changed, his behavior changed with the discovery, is tied with discovery. Dr. Wallace says, look, I never saw the discovery. I didn't see it. I didn't know what Alan read.

And I didn't know what the attorneys had told him. Then, and this is interesting. Then they ask where she would meet with, where she would meet with Richard Allen. And she states, we would meet in two locations, the cell and the cage. Like she said it. She called it a cage. That was an interesting moment. Question.

Did you take notes in there? She said, yes. If I was doing rounds, I was taking notes. people are pointing out different reasons you have bulging eyes it's really interesting you also have bulging eyes if you have like grave disease there are i i looked it up a lot of reasons for bulging eyes it's interesting about losing weight some other things yeah interesting guys okay this gets interesting okay so they explained that dr martin is a psychiatrist from indiana state police and he was assisting um

with Richard Allen in there to try to, he was assisting Dr. Walla with trying to reduce the backlog on offenders receiving treatments. Because there were days, weren't there days, Rosie asked that you were seeing 40 or 50 others when you were doing rounds. And yes, that's true. So she was getting help.

And then this is an important part of the defense. And this is actually, I think probably, well, I'll let you guys aside, but this here. There's a question for, did you destroy the notes after you took the notes from when you would see Richard Allen? And she did. She explained that the protocol at the prison was, when you would see the patients, and it's typical, this is typical, I think, in the mental health profession that you write notes. And then if you have a database, you take the notes and then you put the notes that you took

from your session and you put them into, you can put them into a database. And after they're all entered, you can shred the notes. And they're all in the system for privacy. And she essentially says that's what she did with all of Richard Allen's notes and all of the inmates' notes that she took that she would write them out while in the session. And then at the end of the session, she'd take them and enter them into the computer and put them all in. And once they were in and secure in the database, notes shredded. So he says, you destroyed the notes. she said that was, you know, that's what you're supposed to do.

And he said, well, I showed you the guidelines. Because I showed you the guidelines. And it was actually suggested that you retain notes when there are, when there are cases where litigation may be present. That is what is suggested. And he suggested this at the pre-trial. then she said, didn't I show you this at the pretrial? She says, well, I did not have the full document. So no, she acknowledged she didn't have the full document that showed that when there is a possibility of litigation,

maybe actually you ought to keep the original notes. She hadn't seen that full document. Well, do you acknowledge now that the best practice is to, keep the notes. If that is what your recommend says, then wouldn't the answer be yes? And she says yes. And he reads that this is what she said from the pretrial hearing. So that's interesting.

I did read that a bit in the pretrial hearing and now it's coming back up. So the original notes were shredded that she claimed was protocol, but actually best practice, according to the defense, is to keep those notes. She said, okay. She said, is it, then he asks, is it accurate to say someone who suffers from major depressive disorder can move in and out of episodes? And can it happen when external factors are experienced like a phone call with family or fighting over food or something an inmate says?

And oddly, I got that entire question, and I couldn't quite hear her answer food or something an inmate. I think that's what you say, things like that. So, yeah, I think that she was saying yes, that can happen. Then she talked about the phrase question. This is a question for her. Let's talk about the phrase serious mental illness. do you agree with the formal definition for serious mental illness?

She says yes. Do you agree that Alan hit the definition for serious mental illness? She says yes. Well, isn't it true that part of the policy that people with serious mental illness should not be in solitary confinement for more than 30 days? There is a policy that exists that long-term solitary can be detrimental to the mental health to mental health correct she says correct i think that moment was a win for the defense um so here's a question then rosy asks isn't reasonable to believe that 13 months could have

negatively impacted his mental health yes um was a diagnosis of a psychotic process during the months of May and June, did it believe to have been started in April? Her answer, if it happened in March, it would have been late March that it happened. Is it accurate that you were questioning his genuineness? Yes, she said. Rosie asked, did you tell me when we met back at that table on May 8th that you were unsure though if he was being genuine or not? Yeah. And then he kind of said, Well, the beauty of hindsight causes things to see differently. So now there's a redirect by the prosecution. So with the redirect, they explained that there are two separate kinds of providers.

There's Dr. Martin, the psychiatrist, he provides drugs. And then there's Dr. Walla, who is the therapeutic psychologist. She cannot prescribe drugs. And so they work together. And they explained so that he had two separate kind of providers. and then the prosecution on this redirect asks, what procedures did you follow for taking notes? So they're going back to this whole shredding of the notes.

So let's go over what she did to take notes. I do think this is really important. I think it's really important to the prosecution came back to it because this is interesting. So what was the procedure, Dr. Wallet, that you followed for taking notes? And her answer is a sheet of paper. You take a sheet of paper,

you take notes throughout the session and then you go back to the office right away and you enter all of those notes into the database and then you shred the document and they ask were you doing rounds when you were seeing Richard Allen sometimes would you just go see him and how long would you stay in the cubicle her answer is I would stay in there for 30 minutes to an hour and is there any reason they asked to believe that you incorrectly entered any note and she said no there's no reason to believe that i incorrectly answered any note that's kind troublemaker baker like i like i said um i've had better days it was very frustrating sitting in that back row so thank you everyone for being here and i guess i just the reason i keep saying that is i want to be very very honest when i know that i've

missed some important things and uh i just want to say that there might be some things that i missed today once again. So the prosecution is continuing. Is the practice at the Westfield Correctional Facility, is it always, or in this, as a psychologist, is it always the practice to shred the notes after entering them? She says, yes, that is always the practice. Was there an increased concern with Richard Allen that notes could be seen?

She said, yes. that's interesting. So in other words, she's saying not only, so she's kind of implying that like in her idea, like she felt there was more of a concern that she needed to shred the notes because they could be seen. Did you take your responsibility

to accurately document your conversations with Richard Allen in the database? She says, I did. Then there is a discussion with, colleagues and supervisors before treating Alan. Is that true? You had all you had colleagues and supervisors before you treated Alan. You met. You discussed it. And this was the conversation that the day Alan came to the Westville Correctional Facility. All of you guys met to discuss his treatment. Is that right? Yes. Could you summarize this conversation for us? Dr. Wall answers, well, I don't remember

the details, but we talked about him coming in on Estabye. watch. They question, did you disclose your interest at this time in true crime? And Dr. Wallace says, they knew. And the question then is, well, was it only the Delphi case that you were covering when it comes to true crime? She said, no, not just the Delphi case. Did the supervisors have any concern about your interest in this particular case when coming together to plan a treatment for Richard Allen? No, they had no concern. Were you able to separate your interest in true crime in the care of Richard Allen? Yes. Her answer is yes. He hadn't been convicted and I treated him like everyone else.

His confidentiality was maintained. Question. If were you asked, you were asked, I want to ask you if you shared information online from a podcast with Richard Allen and she says, yes. She goes, what did you share with Richard Allen that you learned from a podcast? and she said, I believe that I told him that he had supporters, and I shared that so that he could maintain hope. He had concerns, by the way, so on this I put date question mark.

I could not hear the date. He had concerns with ants in his cell and other inmates yelling at him. This was all more prominent when he first got there. She explained that he was adjusting in November and December to being in prison. Question, when you related the significant change in April to discovery and to attorney visits, were there any other changes? She says, not that I know of or not that I was aware of. Okay.

There was, hold on. There, okay, so thou, there's a question. Was there, hold on. just a second it's still going let's just all right guys i'm struggling to reading my own handwriting here okay so now we're they're comparing the first chart of this is still the prosecution of richard allen um entering prison like his history like his first chart to his second chart like after he's in prison okay and the question is that in his first chart with all of his history when he comes in they said there's no indication that he had been sexually abused is that right like and they're

like no it's not on the history chart his history of his mental health that comes with depression and anxiety and all that stuff no it does not say there's no indication that he was sexually abused it's not on the chart when he came in so when Alan shared that he had been an alcoholic multiple times since 2011. Was that on his original chart? No, it wasn't on his original chart. That was different.

So when he made the confession and he referred to being a sex addict, that was different too, right? That wasn't in his chart? Correct. So in other words, he didn't mention past abuse before he didn't mention alcoholism before or this alleged addiction before. And so it was different.

So the question is, do people under report in areas, though? She said, yes, that is very common that people under report their own disorders or mental illness or addictions. Then now we have defense again for a recross. So they're rosy's first question out of the gate. Well, do you know if Richard Allen was underreporting the sexual abuse and the alcoholism? She says, I don't know. Question.

Well, might have he been telling you these things that weren't true? In other words, I put in parentheses here, oh, like Rosie's trying to imply that Richard Allen might be a liar, which is kind of a weird thing to do when, you know, your defense. But I get it. Like he's trying to say, how can you prove that? anything he tells you is true if he under reports. Or how can you try to prove? So he says, question, you testified, again, that you could keep things separate when you went to work.

Yet you search things related to this case at work directly. Did you not? And you were not, and you were doing that for personal reasons. Her answer is, I mean, there's always that interest. Um, defense. Hold on one second, guys. Okay. Defense continues. Well, let's go back to the shredding of the papers. They're saying one reason to dispose of work notes is to main privacy. Is it not? Yes. That's the reason we do it. But yet you had a camera in his cell the entire time. There is no privacy. Right. Right? Yes. There are inmates and guards at the door. There's no privacy. And when he was moved, he still had a camera, correct? Yes. So in other words, what's the point, I guess, is where the defense is getting at? And then he asked, did you talk to the staff about your interest in this case? And she says, yes, I did. There were certain cases that I call, I discussed to them. I discussed with them my interest.

Did you ever tell anyone about your interest? And then she says, honestly, we didn't talk about that case while I was on call. Then he asks her, Rosie asked her, did you go to the Monon Highbridge? Yes. You went out of your way to go there? She said, no, it was on my way one day. And then there's a sidebar before jury questions. There were a lot of jury questions when it comes to Dr. Walla.

here are a few of them. And there was a big sidebar before jury questions. Dr. Walla, would the diagnosis of brief psychosis reappear after returning to normal? She says she supposes it would. Number two, jury question. Is it expected or normal for brief psychosis disorder to occur repetitively? She didn't really answer that one. And honestly, I don't really know if I understood the question.

It's interesting. Number three, would Richard Allen know the process of the three versus four meal refusals and would he know the consequences on it? Rosie jumps in and argues solitary. She said yes, but then Rosie jumped in and argued solitary confinement means no control. Did Mr. Allen come to the Westville Correctional Facility on medication or did they start it while he was there? And he came on Prozac, but yet, but they tweaked the dosing once he got there. Do you screen for delirium as part of your mental status exam?

No. do people in the Department of Corrections have their entire medical history populated into the system or is it self-reported? And another question, did Richard Allen sign a release for psychology? And those were two other questions. So we got through that. Dr. Walla was actually like kind of like the one I had the most difficulty. I was able to hear the next two witnesses a lot better. So we're good.

All right. New witness. Not really a new witness. I think this is a third or fourth time on the stand. Steve Mullen. He's back. We're talking about the Hoosier Harvest surveillance video once again. So let me remind you of the

confession, the alleged confession that I shared at, during my lunch life. That confession was probably the most important thing to note for the next two witnesses. So I want to remind you, and I'll take you through that. He went through, he went through why he was on the bridge, how he followed the girls, how he ordered them down the hill, that it was a sexual in nature, but that he saw a van and so he got scared so he killed abby and liby according to dr walla and what he said to dr walla so now we have steve mullen again and we're talking the store surveillance video um they ask him about they remind everyone that richard allen has a 2016 black ford focus

SE and that back then they did a search for registered vehicles in Carroll County and the surrounding counties. And they have the results from the DMV. Now, this is interesting to me because there was actually, uh-oh, it looks like I might be buffering. There is actually, there was a witness that was asked this by the jury. And the jury question was, did you search how many White Ford focuses were in the area. And the answer to the witness on the stand, and I can't recall which witness it was, he actually said no.

So I had always thought that they hadn't did a search of, of black, excuse me, black for focuses in the area. But Steve Mullen is actually coming to testify of that search. So yes, they did a search of how many, how many Black Ford Focus SEs, 2016, were in the area at the time. Here you go.

They did a search. here are the results from the DMV. They checked on registrations from 2016 to 2017. So there are duplicates because they pulled 2016. They pulled 2017. A black Ford Focus SEs. Mr. Allen had a black 2016 Ford Focus SE. So how, and they did Carroll County and all the surrounding counties around Carroll County.

And there were a total of eight registered. in 2016 and 2017. How many registered black Ford Focus SEs in 2016 and 2017 in Carroll County? One, just one, which was Richard Allen's. And that was it. And that was all the prosecution wanted to get out. So now we have cross. And they ask, they start by saying, look, a lot of people visit.

outside of Carroll County, the Monon High Bridge trails, right? Yes. Steve Mullen says, yeah, other people visit it. And you really can't tell on the Hoosier Harvest Surveillance camera what year that it says titanium. And there are actually five other years of that Ford Focus that look like, that body type and that vehicle, right? And it looked like this? and Steve Mullins says, yeah, that's true. And you have a list of all of the cars that look like this in this vehicle.

And they have a Ford Focus with a similar body. And there are types that match what this sort of looks like from 2011. And there are another 65 Ford focuses, right, that actually match then this body. body type. And could you have and why you could have actually admitted that list too. Could you not? And Steve says, well, actually, no, I can. I'm not the prosecutor. I can't admit any list. And then there's redirect by the prosecution. How many of those Ford focuses are in Carroll County? And do you need to refresh your memory? And then the next question is, do you believe that the car on the Hoosier Harvest video matches Richard Allen's car. The answer is yes. Now we have recross.

But you can't see the year, Rosie says. You can't see the titanium. You can't see the license plate. Objection. And he explains that the objection is that I don't know if the, I don't know what the objection was, I think the objection was sustained. So now we're to jury questions. And the jury questions are, are the rims or the wheels specific to Richard Allen's Ford Focus? And the answer to that is, and I actually love this question because I had the same question, because they really emphasize, if you guys remember the rims of Richard Allen's car, they emphasize that the rims are see-through and you can like see the sky through them. They're not solid.

They're see-through. And they're saying the year, the year specializes the rim selection. and that this rim selection is found in Richard Allen's vehicle. So he can choose this rim selection when picking his Ford Focus. And we're on to the next witness, Brad Weber. Okay. So Brad Weber had on a blue long-sleeved t-shirt and black suspenders. He had blue jeans on.

Honestly, he had a bit of a southern drawl. At first I thought he was chewing gum. I actually think he might have been chewing his lips because he was a little nervous. honestly, and I say this, he looked like sort of like the classic farm boy, honestly. And I say that as a compliment. It was charming to me. So we actually have a sketch artist that is there in the courtroom most days. And she actually drew a picture of him.

And she emailed it to me. So I'm going to share this. And I'll just show you Brad Weber. So that was him on the stand today. I thought that was a great. representation of him. And I also want to share... It's cozy season and nothing compares to wrapping yourself in a Minky Couture blanket.

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slash chewing the facts. I'd really recommend that Jeanette is the artist and she is in the courtroom every day. She's been there every day drawing different sketches. And if you want to see some sketches from every day in court, head to facebook.com slash chewing the facts. I wanted to share that because it is really interesting. and this is Brad Weber. So Brad Weber

lives on a resident at the end of a long private drive at the end of 6 to 5 West. And they asked him to go back to February 13, 2017. They asked,

what he did. Did you drive? Where were you? They asked on February 13th, 2017. And he was employed at Subaru. And he worked at that Subaru from 6 a.m. until 2.30. And for the exhibit that they give to the jury, they show his clock in and his clock out of that day. And it, they asked, did you go to work at 5, 451 and did you clock out at 202? He says yes. And how long to go to work from your home? And he says 20 to 25 minutes. And then they show an exhibit and they publish it to the jury. And what is it? A white van. By the way, he seems nervous. He actually looks down and sits down away from the jury. He looks super nervous to be there. Mr. Weber, they ask him, did you drive this van to work and home from work on February 13th, 2017? Yes, I did.

And then he says, did you drive? And then, oh, and then that's it. Then they're like, good. Thank you. That's all we have. So in other words, the prosecution is implying that this would be a white van that Richard Alan saw if Richard Allen is Bridge Guy, and if his confession is accurate that he's shared to Dr. Walla, then here's your white van that he saw.

And it would be passing at that time. Well, cross-exam comes up, and cross-exam is very quick. And Rosie says, you did not drive straight home on February 13th. Did you? He says, I did. because well you told law enforcement you went to the ATM and he says that's not correct

I dropped off a trailer and he says no you went home after and Mr. Weber just shouted no very loud and I kind of shocked everyone and then

there was an objection and that was it and we never heard more from him. So then there was a big sidebar. Okay. So then we hear a big sidebar. And during the sidebar,

even though they tell us to be quiet, I was whispering very quietly, but I asked a woman next to me. I'd never sat by her. She's with the public. And I was just curious now at this moment to try, we've heard two days of alleged confessions by Richard Allen. And I'm trying to understand where everyone is in this case.

You know, and I can't read the jury. there's poker face you know i i don't know what anyone's thinking i mean the jury questions are really interesting like they're really thinking about this and they have a lot of questions still and um so i i turned to the woman next to me on the right and i said what are you thinking where are you and the woman to the right of me said uh she said that was like a smoking gun she said there is only one who wouldn't know about the white van she goes this is a slam dunk.

This is a slam dunk with a confession. She's like, this was it for me. And I'm like, what was it? Like, that he was saying. She goes, no. She said, Brad Weber. Like, this was it. What he just said about the white man.

She goes, that was a slam dunk with a confession. She said, he was the only one. Richard Allen would be the only one that knew about the white van. And he had a white van. She was like, that just, that just did it for me. Slam dunk. Turned to the woman on the left of me. And she didn't hear that conversation, by the way,

because there was actually one other person. person was like two people down and I said what are you thinking what are you thinking now like where are you and she said I just she said I I I just don't know if I can trust any of these correctional officers or um or Dr. Wall now and I I will absolutely not be able to believe any of these questions these confessions or anything unless I hear and see audio and decide for myself I don't know if was coerced. I just, I really don't know. I still think he could be innocent. And so, um, I share that because that's where people are in the courtroom today. Um, these two women were not here every day, um, in the courtroom. So, um, you know, but there you go. Two very, very

different opinions from the courtroom today. People, are saying they heard of the white van a while ago. Yes, the white van made an appearance, but they're referring to back with a confession was allegedly made. So after the sidebar ends, Judge Goal states that there are now two hours of audio to listen to. And I'm thinking, this is why I changed my flight. This is why I'm here. I want to hear this. I want to hear this. I want to hear this. And honestly, the biggest reason I changed my fly is I was told that like, like you want to hear this audio. So I'm like, here I am. Let's do this. It's 4 o'clock. We're going to, we're going to have another 6 p.m. day in court. Let's do this. And Judge Gould then

excuses the jury. And they decide to do that another time. So we know that there is two hours of audio. that we have not heard and we do not know what it's going to say and there is a lot I think a lot more to be heard and learned

so we're going to keep following the evidence and the facts and try to put this all together outside of the courtroom or at the courthouse we all walked out So listen to the courthouse wasn't even closed for the day. We walked outside and people were lined up for tomorrow. Tomorrow is a trial day.

The line is full. In fact, our line, our seed is saved and I'm actually a little worried about it. So we're going to go over there and check it out. And by that, I mean, I have a couple of people that are going to help me take notes tomorrow. I am headed home, as I mentioned, for Halloween. I mentioned in my live, and it was a mistake, my lunch live, that I wasn't going to go live tomorrow because it's Halloween. That is not true.

I will go live later. So I will be back home. I will have concluded trick-or-treating. But trust me, I am dying to know what happens tomorrow and court. And there is no way I'm not going to go live tomorrow night. It's going to be a lot later. So for all you night owls, I will be going live. and I have two or three people willing to take notes tomorrow.

We're even saving some chairs for them. And it's actually also why I've been sharing notes with several people already. We're all getting used to each other's styles. And we've been doing this for a few days. So like we're all in the zone. And so, yeah, they're there. I'm going to go check on everyone. And then I also want to say a big thank you to Ted, our hidden gem, Ted, who watched my seat last night.

So I think tomorrow might be a really interesting day. I will be at a Halloween party for my son, but we will be here doing our best. This is a community effort, definitely. It was today, too, when I couldn't hear some things in court. Like with Dr. Wallet, I was so frustrated. And I just want to say that in the courtroom, like all of the creators that are there every day, you guys saw Tom Webster show up and all these people. Like, we just know how important this information is. And we are sharing and we are working together to get this information.

So that will continue. So anyway, yeah, we'll go outside. A line is already formed for the next day. And it's just dumb. Elphi is getting interesting. Trying to think what else to share. That's the latest. I think both the prosecution and the defense had some wins today.

There was, yeah. Oh, and then this was interesting. I went outside and while sitting in the line. I kept asking some more people. And of course, these were people that aren't necessarily in the courtroom at all. They've just been learning about what's going on from multiple creators. and I asked them what they were thinking. And I would say that most people, most, I think I talked to three,

they were still very skeptical about Richard Allen's guilt, that they believe that he could be innocent. So really doesn't matter what anybody else thinks. All the matters is what the jury thinks. I know that. but I'm just trying to, you know, get a feel on what people are thinking. And that's latest. They're, you know, they're, I don't know, we'll see.

We'll see. So you're going to follow me, my two cents. You're going to follow me. I am going to get you all of your info. And let's just see who's here. Thank you, everyone. I'm very sorry that it's hard for me to do chats at the same time as, I'm reading notes, but I'll just thank you.

You guys seriously thank you for your support. Well, you're not the only one, Tam. Love that Nina, exactly. Justice for Ms. Williams and Miss German. Whatever that looks like. I'm, yeah, I'm here to learn. I don't know what to say about Dr. Walla being chatty on the internet, about Delphi, why treating him?

I am just going to sit back and listen and learn right now. I don't know if I have too much to say right now. Thank you, Susie. I will. It will. Their answer, whether we agree with it or not, their answer for why he was held in a high security prison instead of a local jail or local jail, the state was because of his S watch, because of his concerns for self-harm.

That's whether or not that was needed. That's their answer for why. Well, there you go. Nick Bro. Who knew? You know, Kelly J? I don't know. I have, I have some questions. I mean, I'm clearly married to a psychologist. You think I might know more, but I think that makes me actually more hesitant to talk about it because I'm like, I should ask the expert. I will say this. If I know my husband, I'm not, so I'm not talking for psychologists. I'm talking for my co-host, Dr. John Matthias, who's a criminal psychologist. If we started reading about a case,

and started following it, and he got called to maybe help with it. He would stop listening to things and start reading Discovery, and that's all, and he would not talk about it with anyone. I don't know what psychologists in general should do. I'll just share that. You know, the victim's families, I kept looking at them today, and they were just simply, listening. I couldn't tell how they were feeling about the testimonies, but I will say one thing that I just amazed about, the dedication of these families, the victims families to sit in there every day is incredible on both sides. Like, it's just that is, it's amazing. They are dedicated and

committed to be in there. Laura, thank you. Laura was incredible. the courtroom today. It was a jumbled day, wasn't it? I feel validated hearing you say that too. It was a jumbled day, but I appreciate that you're still presenting it as a question in the answer so your viewers can make their own judgment. Thank you, Laura. I appreciate that. I appreciate you. I called Laura right before we would live to be like, can I double check this? Like, I'm really confused. So thank you, everyone, for your help today as we were all just like trying to put this testimony together with a very quiet witness, but a very important witness. goodness. Let's hope we get the audio and we can all one day listen. And we can all hear,

even though for those of us in the courtroom, we can hear what we missed. His wife was, you know, yesterday was a very emotional day. I saw a lot more emotion from his wife yesterday, not as much emotion from her today. So I would say it was similar to the victim's families. I just couldn't really read. They were listening. They were listening. And she, I want to say to, too, like her sitting there every day, Kathy Allen, Richards, Alan's wife is also very impressive. Like yesterday, you know, the things that are being said and talked about, I find it very brave of her and noble to be sitting in there every day.

He does have the crime scene, right? Yeah, I'm mentioning the sticks. I completely agree, D.Gri, like, this is the time now. Dr. John has always wanted a lot more information. We've learned so much more. I shared some things with Dr. John yesterday, and I think that hopefully we'll be ready soon to talk with him. I want to bring him very soon on a question and answer. The jury was taking notes a lot today. I mean, they are paying attention. Thank you, Laura.

I completely agree. This is about them. Yes. You two bad actors. I agree. I agree. I wish it was a very interesting beginning to the cross-exam when they brought up her interest in this case in true crime. Interesting, CS. It's so sad about their experience in the prison population. It's so important, mental health is so important in the prison populations. You know, Richard Allen is actually getting a little bit more boring in court. I actually mentioned this to someone and they kind of agreed, like, at the beginning, he would like go back and forth more and touch his face more. And like, now he's actually kind of getting a little bit more boring. He just sits and watches. And of course, his back is to us. So we only see his face when he turns to the side.

and looks, and he does look a lot. He'll look at the gallery. He'll look at his wife. But he's a little bit more still. Alan is pleading not guilty. So, right. Interesting, right, Ivana? Like, you would think that if he stood by his confessions,

he would be pleading guilty, but he's not. So. And his attorneys are arguing that, you know, maybe he didn't mean them. Tom Webster is in the courtroom guys as well. So you can check out his YouTube channel. I saw Becky Patty come up to Tom Webster and thank him for his reporting. I don't know about that.

I'm trying. I'm trying, but thank you. Mindy, I don't have the answer. But, well, yeah, I guess. not all people awaiting charges have S watch. So it's kind of confusing to know, right? Thank you, Tina. That's a good point, Tina.

Like, right, it is true that those that have crimes against children are often separated in jails. You're right. That's true. I do know others that are separated in jails. You're right. These are some great pinned, starred comments. I've had some amazing moderators starring

some comments for me to read and um go there's some really good questions ivana what do you think about the jury being able to ask questions i'm liking it and seeing the jury's thought processes i completely agree i think that the only i keep saying that there's these poker faces but the only way that we can really see what they're thinking is through their questions and i i do think that there are probably some jurors that disagree with each other. And there are certainly jurors that they have some interesting questions. And I've always suspected, and I still suspect that a lot of them knew a lot more about the case than others when they were put on this jury.

He just listened mostly today. Richard Allen's demeanor was just listening. Gray Hughes, thank you. So Gray Hughes has been following this case very closely since you, You just posted an interesting video about the bridge. I was actually scanning it today about actually where Abby would exactly be when the last photo of her was taken. You posted that a few days ago, I think. Thank you.

I appreciate it. Gray, and you were in testimony today. So it was interesting to hear that mentioned these certain podcasts that Dr. Walla listened to. So many kind things. Thank you guys. Thank you. Thank you to the moderators that help me pin some of these comments.

Great point, Jack. I have to actually, I actually have a story about this. They said it is more relevant to ask how many Ford focuses were in Indiana because look at the Idaho four case. The Alontera came from the next state over. And I actually have a story about that. I was in the first dateline episode about the Idaho four case. And that was actually a question they asked.

We were actually interviewed for my husband, Dr. John and I were actually interviewed for that dateline episode before they arrested Brian Coburger. And so we were actually, that episode was a lot about the investigation and how how true crime sleuth were looking at allantras and trying to find elantras. And they kept pointing at alantras. And so there was this moment where we all thought we'd found the elantra. And it was a completely false lead. And I turned to my husband, Dr. John Matthias, and said to him in the dateline, I guess there are a lot of alantras. So my point is point well taken.

You're exactly right. It wasn't so easy, was it? and perhaps they should be looking in Indiana. Libby, you are your own best witness. I can't help but cry like a fountain for you. And sweet Abby, I gave five granddaughters and one angelic four-year-old great-granddaughter. I have.

Blessings to family. So well said. I agree. I think to this day, the best evidence in this case was by Libby herself. So, yeah, she is her own best witness. She filmed the abduction.

He didn't say, though, I saw the van, then crossed the creek, then killed the girls. That's kind of important, although he had time to cross before 2.30 p.m. as well. You're right. That's still a mystery. There are still many things that's the mystery. I also want to know why Abby had no blood on her hands and why Libby was. was cut so many times. Like there are so many questions that haven't been answered,

and that's also one of them, you know? Where would you have seen the white band? That's also a great question. I mean, they kind of explained the 625 street, but I need to go check it out. That might be something great. He's getting answered,

but I think I need to kind of go figure out where he would be driving. If I go that way, I will take some video and point out where I think the white band was driving and where he might have seen it. Interesting, Michael. That's really interesting. Michael says if he was on the jury, he disregard all the confessions

based on his interrogation. I don't know. For me, man, it feels pretty heavy for me to hear things that they're sharing. He's shared. But again, I want to hear the audio. You're absolutely right, LGBB. One thing does not equate another.

Two things can be true at once. And police can make mistakes, too. and that doesn't mean something else as well. There can be mistakes made. He could have been treated poorly in the prison, and he could be guilty and innocent. These are not one or the other things. They're not either or.

Ivy says the exact same thing. Feel like people are some very black and white thinking. These things can be true, and he can still be guilty. Having a psychotic episode doesn't equal innocence. He is not convicted yet. He should have never been placed in a prison in solitary. It's never been done like this piece.

civil rights were terribly violated. And then, of course, Tina, why can't people understand? They separated him for his own safety. Thank you, Connie. Welcome. That's kind that you're saying I'm doing great. It's a great question, Lin-Gen. How can they expect family to hear?

Honestly, family's having a hard time hearing. It's been difficult for them. They do get to be one row closer, but it is not easy. And, yeah, everyone's doing their best. Thanks, everyone. All right, I'll take off. I've got to pack, and I've got to go make sure I still have a place in line

for my couple of note takers tomorrow. Thank you so much, everyone, for your support tonight. Thank you for tuning in. I'm doing my best. Some days are easier than others, so thanks for staking with me. And I'll go live tomorrow night later, and then we'll go live all weekend,

and then I will be back on, on Sunday. Thank you under your scars. Be kind of yourself. You're doing incredible. That does mean that that means a lot to me. Thank you. I can't be hard on myself. Thank you. I appreciate it. All right. We'll see you guys. Have a good night. Bye. Ready to make your money work smarter? Cracken is the crypto platform trusted by over 13 million people worldwide. With Cracken, you can instantly buy and sell crypto, power up your trades with advanced tools and get 24-7 support from real humans anytime you need help. Cracken has been around for more than 14 years and was voted the best crypto exchange of 2025

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