Hidden True Crime - DELPHI: Richard Allen Trial - Monday 10/21/24 Crime Scene Pics Revealed

Episode Date: October 23, 2024

Richard Allen Witness Testimony Monday 10/21/24 About Hidden True Crime: Lauren Matthias, a former television reporter, and her husband Dr. John Matthias, a criminal psychologist, started Hidden True Crime in 2020 with their Season, 'Beyond the Veil,' a psychological deep dive into the doomsday murders and prophet. What started as a simple conversation at their dinner table became a captivating podcast. Join the dynamic duo of Dr. John Matthias, a forensic psychologist, and Lauren Matthias, an investigative journalist, as they delve into the psychological facets of unthinkable crimes every week. Their unique perspectives and in-depth analysis offer a fresh take on true crime storytelling. Thank you for your support through sponsorships, subscribing, listening, and becoming a Patreon member at Patreon.com/HiddenTrueCrime Our Sponsors:* Check out Acorns: https://acorns.com/HIDDENTRUECRIME* Check out Acorns: https://acorns.com/HIDDENTRUECRIME* Check out Armoire and use my code HIDDENTRUECRIME for a great deal: https://www.armoire.style* Check out Effecty and use my code HIDDENTRUECRIME for a great deal: https://www.effecty.com* Check out Happy Mammoth and use my code HIDDENTRUECRIME for a great deal: https://happymammoth.comSupport this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/hidden-a-true-crime-podcast1836/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Lately, I've been trying to be more intentional about what I wear, intentional about everything, just choosing pieces that feel effortless, still put together, timeless, but also not overthinking it every morning. It's why I keep going back to quince. Their pieces just make getting dressed easier and I feel so classy. I feel elevated. The fits are flattering. The fabric is really high quality. Everything is wearable day to day. I actually got this really, really, beautiful yellow V-neck midi dress from them, and I paired it with some Italian leather sandals. It's one of those outfits that just works. It feels polished but still comfortable. It's exactly what I've been looking for. What surprises me, though, is the quality for the price. Quince uses

premium materials like European linen, organic cotton, but they cut out the middleman. So everything is priced way lower than you'd expect. Refresh. your every day with luxury you can actually use. Head to quince.com slash hidden true crime for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. That's quince, quince, q-u-in-c-com slash hidden true crime for free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com slash hidden true crime. Has losing weight and getting healthier been on your mind lately? Have you heard about groundbreaking GLP-1 treatments like Ozempic and We Govi, with Effecti, getting access to these powerful medications has never been easier or more affordable. Starting a new medication is always a bit scary when you aren't sure what to expect.

And using Effecti makes it so much easier with their hands on support, which gives unlimited access to licensed doctors so you never have to jump through hoops for help with any dosing questions or just other support when you need it. Effecti uses rigorous testing and their products are backed by research so you can rest assured. Ready to level up your weight loss game right now. My listeners can get $50 off of GLP1 weight loss treatments at Effecti.com with code hidden true crime at checkout. That's effecty.com, EFFF-E-C-T-Y.com and use code Hidden True Crime to get $50 off your

first month of GLP-1 weight loss treatment, no hassles, no memberships, and no hidden fees. Get started today. Does anyone else find themselves saying, I feel way older than I actually am or I feel way younger? Did you know there might be some truth behind that feeling? That's where true diagnostic comes in. With their true age test, you can discover your true biological age, plus get insights into health risks for heart disease or Alzheimer's, even your mortality. I just ordered my true diagnostic test and while nervous, I'm looking forward to what

it may tell me about my own health so I can take control of things now. When taking tests pertaining to my health, I want to make sure it's scientifically backed and True Diagnostic is. Their True Age test is based on peer-reviewed research from scientists working at Harvard, Duke, and Yale. And by tracking your biological age, you can actually see how the changes you make, whether that's exercise, diet, or sleep will affect your health over time. Ready to find out your biological age?

Right now, our listeners can get 20% off their entire order at True Diagnostic.com by using code hidden true crime at checkout. That's true diagnostic. T-R-U-D-A-G-N-O-S-T-I-C.com. Just use code hidden true crime to save 20% off. Plus, if you subscribe, you'll get an additional 20% off. Discover your true age today. Hey, everyone, I am in Delphi, Indiana,

spending long nights in line, camping out in order to get into the courtroom each day and bring you the latest on the Richard Allen trial. Allen is charged with murdering 13-year-old Abigail Williams and 14-year-old Liberty German in February of 2017. Now, this episode you're about to listen to was originally recorded as a live stream on YouTube right after court ended on Monday. We've made some edits for our podcast version. But if you notice any choppy moments or references to a live chat, that is why we appreciate you understanding as we work around the clock to bring you the latest on the rich. Allen trial with a quick turnaround. And if you would like to catch the full unedited live stream, you can always head over to hit and chew crime on YouTube. Hello, hello, hello. I am here.

Exhausted, shocked at what I saw today, but here, how is everyone? We have a lot to talk about today when it comes to the Richard Allen trial in Delphi, Indiana. Wow, wow, wow. So, So I'm exhausted. Everyone that is going in there, except for a couple of people that were able to, they actually paid people to sleep there for them. Everyone else is out there by 2 a.m. that's able to get in. And so we brought sleeping bags. We crashed at the courthouse once again.

And we're able to get in. I've never seen a trial so difficult to get into. 20 people from the public were able to get in and then a handful of media. And, you know, I feel honestly the burden of being in there in a sense that I feel like I need to take the most detailed notes you can see here, which is exactly what I try to do. And I feel like I need to relay everything that happened today in trial to each of you because there are so few people in there, and I respect every creator

and every person that is in there relaying information. And I'm going to just try to do my best to lay out the details, non-biased. People have pointed out to me, yes, I accidentally sometimes don't say alleged when I referred to Richard Allen. He is on trial. The prosecution's thesis is that Richard Allen

committed these murders, and he is charged with the murders of Abby and Libby. I know that many people don't know whether or not he is a guilty. And we, of course, are going to know until the end of trial whether the jury finds Richard Allen guilty of these crimes. And there's certainly a lot of interesting information when it comes to these murders. And I just want to simply relay what I am learning to all of you the way I see it. And we saw a lot of shocking evidence today. I said as much on my lunch live.

crime scene photos of Abby and Libby, which were so difficult to see, and yet I know how important they are to see and to explain to all of you because there are so many questions surrounding the crime scene. And so I'm going to relay everything I can and even show some of you the diagrams that I drew in court. But what I saw might be different than what somebody else in court saw. So I did ask around to a few people what they thought. of the crime scene and how they took it when we refer to the sticks or the twigs in the way

the bodies were. So I'll get into that too. I'll share what I thought and I'll share what other people thought and show you what we have. Let's start. So we had four witnesses today. It was a very long day for law enforcement, three crime scene investigators and a detective. The crime scene, I think, is what we need to talk about the most. And I'll share also the feeling inside the courtroom today too. But let's start with just the beginning and go in order, if that's okay, because that's the way being that my brain is exhausted after, you know, spending the night outside in the courthouse,

I feel like it would be easiest for me to just go in order. with my notes here. I'm looking at my notes. This is my notebook. It's almost full. Luckily, I brought three more of these. One thing that's interesting to note, this is, of course, the trial of Richard Allen. He is on trial, charged in the murder of 14-year-old Libby, German and 13-year-old Abby Williams, two best friends who are out for a walk in this beautiful area. And what is interesting about this, though, is Richard Allen was not mentioned once in trial today. In fact, he's hardly been mentioned in trial so far. And these are the prosecution's witnesses, but what they are doing is they are explaining the crime scene. They are explaining

what they saw. They are describing and detail, um, the victims, locations, evidence like the unspent bullet that they discovered, the mixed matched clothing on the victims, but I honestly can say to you that I don't know if I ever heard the words Richard Allen come out of anyone's mouth today. So I don't know what the prosecution's strategy is. if they're simply setting the stage and explaining in detail to jurors exactly what happened so that they can then introduce Richard Allen into his trial. Richard Allen is there.

Also, he is very wide-eyed. He is very beady-eyed, honestly. It could just be how his eyes look. But when he looks around, he has very beady, big eyes. and it's very expressive. He was wearing a plaid blue shirt today, khaki pants and a belt. And he also looks around a lot.

He looks from side to side. There were times where he actually sways a few different times, kind of like this. Could be comfort, who knows, could be dealing with anxiety, could be impatience. They're long days, but he sways like this. And then he looks around.

he looks sometimes shocked or surprised. Again, I don't know if those were his big eyes. And of course, as many of you have heard, he is very small in stature. I've heard both 5-5 and like booking information, but then some people say 5-4. He looks like he could be 5-4, but I'm going to go with 5-5

because I think that's the official height. But he is small. He also has his family there every day. He has his mother. Today he had his mother, his father, and his wife, Kathy. Other days, sometimes there's been a day. His dad did not come on Saturday, but his sister came on Saturday. So he always has support in the courtroom on the defensive side.

And then on the other side, we have the victim's family. It's Abby and Libby's family who attend. And it's different family members each day. Today was heartbreaking watching Libby's mother in the courtroom today. God bless the victim's families. So we start with Darren Giacola. And they did not spell his name, Detective Daryan Giacola. They did not spell his last name when he got on the stand.

So we all had to guess it. Again, we don't even have Google in there. Just remember, they don't allow our phones in the courthouse. And there is no parking outside the courthouse. So we have to park a few blocks away. And that is where our phone is locked far, far away. And so I have to run the lunch just to do that lunch live. So we just, we do not have phones.

We do not have any access. So when they don't spell a name on the witness stand, we guess it. So Detective Darren Giacola, sheriff's department. He's been, he's been with the sheriff's department since 2011, in law enforcement since 2009, Delphi PD. He had the night off on February 13th, 2017. But he heard of two. missing juveniles on social media and he decided to come into work due to the two missing juveniles and the search efforts. He came to the sheriff's office and he originally started

looking at electronics of the girls, but he could not get into the electronics of the girls. So he went out to search that evening. And he went out to the address was 625 West private drive, bringing up and then they brought up a map and a pointer. It dead's end. Oh, it's 625 West, excuse me, which is a private drive. It's dead ends into this private drive and it goes under a high bridge where the search was. It was dark and Detective Geochola was using a flashlight and he really could not see that far as he searched. He's now pointing out on the screen just how.

far he was searching and how others searched on the northeast side of the Monon High Bridge. He, as he got underneath the bridge that evening on February 13th, he noticed limestone and cinder block and he climbed up. He could see a wash of leaves exposing bare ground and a disturbance. It was actually the attorney that called it a disturbance. for the first time, but later on, the detective also referred to it as a disturbance. He says he noticed this disturbance, as the attorney called it, and they showed state exhibit 913. It was being shown to Detective Darren. I started calling him Detective Darren in my notes because I did not know how to spell his last name.

And he says the picks are of the area and what he saw that night and morning, although he did not take the photos as they're looking at photographs of that evening. Picks are being shown now to the jury. We cannot see the photos. And the detective is now pointing out the bare ground exposed and the concrete slabs that he stood on. Now there's a new photo from the top looking down and he says that he can see the disturbance. And he says in quotes, more or less it was the end of the trail at the Monon High Bridge. pointing to the end of the Monon High Bridge, a number of fire department, he says, are with him,

and he points out the disturbance to the fire department. The search ended that evening. He went home to try to rest. And at this point, he wasn't in a, remember, he's not investigating a murder at this point. It's two missing juveniles. So he was wondering if it was a runaway. He reported back to work on February 14th,

Valentine's Day at the sheriff's office, he did some clerical work that day, like calling landowners. And he called a specific landowner at 575 West 300 North. And that resident, the reason he called them is that resident said that he had trail camp footage. And that, to me, was like, are you serious? We, by the way, that's an, that has no ending right now. I don't know if they ever got that trail camp footage, but that was a big woe to me.

this resident had trail camp footage. So as he's driving on February 14th, to get the trail cam footage from this resident, on the way there, he got a call to go to the cemetery. Now, for those of you that are new to this crime or did not see the video that I posted yesterday, I spent time in the cemetery. This cemetery is a really big deal.

So the cemetery is where a lot of people went to get to the bodies. there now is a barbed wire fence at the cemetery so you can't just walk down but this is where everyone went this old cemetery to go walk down to where the remains were so i definitely recommend checking out my video yesterday that i posted to see that because you'll hear about the cemetery a lot so he goes to the cemetery he parks and he begins walking south with another detective meaning the back of the cemetery he passes what he said was a distraught female. And he shows the jury now the path that he took in the southern direction from the cemetery towards the creek, deer creek. He was told that a search party had found

something. And I'm going to pause there and remind you, on Saturday, Patrick Brown or Pat Brown testified. He is who found Abby and Libby's bodies. He was a search party and he broke down in tears on the stand as he remembers finding Abby and Libby as other search members were finding clothing in Deer Creek. He turned around and he saw them. So this is clearly what they're referring to when they're saying that search party found the bodies of Libby and Abby. So Detective Darren is going down. He was told the search party found something and that there were four people on the north side of the creek and three people on the south side of the creek. People were pointing. People were pointing. pointing to the water and he saw a multi-colored shirt in the water, a tie-dye shirt and a Nike,

black Nike in the water, caught in the branches on the creek. He was describing the photos looking down into the water a shirt and shoes. Now, at this point, I do look over at Richard Allen, and Richard Allen with his glasses on is watching the detective closely testify. He, then the detective goes on and says he was having a conversation with people across the creek, hollering and people on his side of the creek said bodies behind him, northeast of him. Deputy Yoder went to and he saw the bodies of the girls, both detectives, or the deputy and the detective, Darren. One of the bodies was nude.

We know that that is Libby. The other was clothed. large lacerations to their throat substantial amount of blood on the persons and around he saw them came as close as ten yards it was apparent they were deceased so no he did not try life-saving measures it was very apparent that they were gone he walked down to the creek when he first originally walked down to the creek thank you Cindy he did not notice the bodies. He had to have somebody point the bodies out for him to even notice the bodies. He stood by to make sure that no one affected the crime scene. And this was an important part

in theme for today, how they protected, how these four crime scene investigators or this detective protected the crime scene, or so they say. They allege that they protected the crime scene. He stood by to make sure that no one affected it. Other officers then are, arrived. Troopers with the Indiana State Police were the first to arrive. A scene log was made and a crime scene tape was quickly put up to preserve the scene to make sure it was not disturbed and the crime scene preserved. He spoke to Shane Haywood. He was with crime scene security. He stayed until 9 a.m. the next morning on 2.15. Lots of questions now from the prosecutor about if the crime scene was indeed disturbed.

Was it disturbed? And Detective Darren continues to share that it was not. No, it was not disturbed. No one entered the crime scene. Then it was asked by the prosecutor, what type of gun law enforcement have? He said it was a Glock 9mm. That was what all of the law enforcement used, he describes.

And he is certain of this. clearly this matters because we're going to soon find an unspent bullet at the crime scene so clearly the prosecution is setting the stage with this questioning, right? It couldn't have been a law enforcement gun because they were different.

So now we have Baldwin, the main defense attorney who does cross-exam with Detective Darren. So he asks essentially, don't you agree that photos right next to the bridge don't show how steep it is. So this is cross-exam, the defense, Baldwin kind of saying, like, don't you agree that the pictures don't really do it justice, just how steep this side of the cliff, this side of the hill is?

I think where the disturbance was. Darren actually says, I think you can actually tell it's pretty steep from the photos. And they both agree, at least, that it's steep. he was supposed to see slide marks. Now, so that thing that he referred to as disturbed right under the bridge, now we're hearing for the first time ever it being referred to as slide marks. And that comes from the defense attorney, defense attorney Baldwin.

Now he's referring to this disturbance as a slide mark in the dirt. He never did go get the trail cam video, Detective Darren. And he is unsure if anyone ever gone. Got it. That was a moment. Great questioning by the defense, too. What? You don't know whether they got this trail camp footage? I mean, I want to know. This is a loose end for me that I really want to understand what is on that trail camp footage. And did anybody get it? Baldwin asked if he was aware if other people that he, that Detective Darren had encountered on the opposite side of the creek from you, if they had also seen the shirt, the tie-dye shirt. And Detective Darren said,

Yeah, the shirt was visible. And then he also explained that there was substantial blood on the persons, both of them. He said that Libby or Liberty had blood all over and around, so much blood, that Abby had blood around her and on her wound. The clothing on Abigail appeared to be wet. Her pants were wet. This is an important piece of evidence that continues to come up today, by the way. How wet were Abby's clothes?

Abby was clothed. Libby was nude. They called the other detective where the bodies were found. And by the way, ATT is his service provider. A lot of calls going on at the crime scene, right? And the calls are going out and they're having a fine time with service. So everybody is wanting to know what everyone's carrier is at this time. AT&T is a carrier.

Now we have a recross. So prosecution comes up again with more questioning for Detective Darren. He explains that the area was flat where the bodies were found. But Detective Darren explains that flat is a relative term in the woods. It's essentially flat, but no place is ever really flat in the woods. But this was like a floodplain where the bodies were found. And so it's flat relative to the other terrain. Now, the jury, I like this opportunity.

that the jury has to ask questions in during this trial, because it really gives you an idea of what the jurors are wondering about and what is on their mind and how much they're listening and where they might be veering. I find the questions more interesting than even the answers given to the jurors. So I love it when the jurors have questions, and they did. One of the jurors' questions was, what electronics was Detective Darren trying to attempt to get into the night of February 13th? So he answers and he explains it was an iPad, that it was locked.

And when they finally got into it, they had missed calls that were people looking for them. But it was locked for a while and he was doing this at the sheriff's office. Next witness. The next witness was Jason Page. Jason Page is a crime scene investigator. Jason Page is really tall, bald and was on the stand for quite a long time. I found him quite professional. He went right up to the big screen.

He was hardly ever sitting because he went right up to the big screen. And with a pointer and pointed everything out, he was, so this was still before lunch, and then he continued after lunch. He was, he was a rock star today. So crime scene investigator with the Indiana State Police, he was a detective for 7.5 years. He was actually on the SWAT team for a time. And now he's a crime scene investigator, so CSI, which means he documents photos, takes notations, exams, et cetera.

And this was his official assignment in February of 2017. He goes on to explain a lot of his background on education and experience. And I stopped writing every single thing down because my hands, I knew I needed to save them for a full day of writing. But he has a very detailed professional background. So a crime scene investigator Jason Page arrived at 1.30 on February 14th. And he parked his vehicle again at the old cemetery. And he walked down to meet the other officers.

At this point, he knew why he was going. He also went to the Monon Highbridge, which, and then he also explains, this is all in Carroll County. But it's not uncommon as they explain that a lot of jurisdictions come and they help one another. and they do work for other people. Upon arrival, he walked down until he saw the crime scene tape set up. And there were officers outside of the tape. Additional officers were also called

to search outside the crime scene area. And a dive team was actually working at the creek. So they had a dive team set up, multiple officers searching outside the crime scene for anything else, and the ground zero taped around and they continue to protect it. They designated it, here we go, ground zero, as a space that was 30 feet in diameter,

where the bodies were found. Then they showed state exhibits 18, 19, 20, and the diagrams he did. You pointed out the cemetery and explained it versus the Monon High Bridge in Deer Creek, just showing where everything was on the map. And he explained that the creek flowed right to left. The floodplain area size was the size of a foot

ball field, he explains, this is where the bodies were found. And it was south, again, of the cemetery. It was just a section beneath the cemetery, a steep part of the cemetery. And you could see the creek very easily from this area. The creek was in view of this floodplain area where the bodies were found. And they zoomed at this moment into the crime scene perimeter, and they showed the boundaries of ground zero on the screen. The crime scene was considered the flood. plain area. Now this area does dip. There are variations in the land. So we covered that again. The body of Liberty was adjacent to a tree. And then Liberty was to the left of the tree. There was crime scene tape. Photo shows large limb over Libby. The bank of the creek. So now I am looking at a

photo. So now I'm seeing a photo of far shot of the crime scene. The bank of the creek is in the distance and you can see it in the photograph of a far shot. And at this point, I pause just to say that Richard Allen is watching the screen at this moment. We have crime scenes up, crime scene photos up on a big screen. He's looking directly at the screen. He's listening. And I noticed that a male juror is actually seeming to be quite upset. We're seeing these, we're all everyone in the gallery and the jurors and Richard Allen and the victim's families are seeing, starting to see these crime scene photos for the very first time.

Libby's mom is sad and she's looking down and her daughter had a hand on her back and was comforting her. So we see Libby's body in the photo. Brant is over her. They did cover with, they did, because she was nude, they had some black. They, they censored areas so that we never saw her full body. But we did see her and them. We see Libby's body in the photo. and we see some branches over her.

There was one large branch that looks to me, I say this at this moment. I'll tell you what I'm thinking now after this was before lunch. So I write, this looks to me like an attempt to hide or camouflage the body. And that is what I write.

That is what I think. I see. I want you to know that I asked a bunch of people after if they felt, after looking at all the crime scenes, if it looks staged or posed, because there's so many questions surrounding the crime scene. The defense put out an odinism theory that they will not be able to use in trial, but they put it out there.

People have speculated so much about the crime scene. So I did write that, but I asked three other people that were in court. One of them right after court or trial concluded, and the others, like at lunchtime. one did not think it looked staged at all. One of them thought that maybe the bodies looked like they might have been posed afterwards. And then another woman I spoke to after trial today said, and she actually texted because

I wanted to get one more opinion. And I'll read to you what she said. Not really. I don't think it looked like they were killed somewhere else and moved there later. It did not give any ritualistic vibe in my opinion. I think the tree limbs were just positioned across bodies like he was planning to make a tent frame and cover it with leaves and debris. He just did not have time to do it. And then she pointed out something interesting.

I'll just share. This is somebody that sat in court is public that I met. So I'll keep her anonymous, but I'm actually reading this in real time. I didn't read this until now. She said from her angle, it almost seemed like Richard Allen. She said excited looking. He was shaking and rocking and swiveling. I did mention the rocking.

When Libby's face and hands, bloody hands were shown, she says that he was rocking and swiveling. She noticed that three of the jurors, two men, were covering their mouths when the photos were up. They looked very upset and they looked perturbed when the defense attorney was asking certain questions. So one person's perspective, someone public speaking there. So, but then someone I spoke to did still have questions about the branches. And again, I'll jump ahead. We'll talk about it more. But I will say that there was on Abby.

Again, she was cut on the left side of her neck. There were two branches that went across and then one more. So almost like an asterisk. and they were all pretty even. But I do agree too. It looked like I agree with this person, like maybe he was trying to make a tent frame or maybe he thought he had more time to prepare to cover him.

I don't know. But that was the only thing that did look like a pattern. So there did look to be some sort of pattern. But these, again, these are not little sticks. They're heavy branches. And so that was near Abby's wound. That was, to me, the one thing that looked most like a pattern of any sort, I have to admit.

So it was crossed like that. And then one more this way. So, but nothing like very apparent. The photos, so I'm just writing this. It's almost like a journal. I'm like, these photos are so, so hard. Libby's mom is crying. Richard Allen is watching.

Baldwin. So as this is going on, I was very surprised by this. As this is going on, photos are on the, on the screen of the crime scene of, of these victims murdered. And Libby's mother is crying to the left of me, being comforted by her daughter. And Richard Allen is watching the screen and defense attorney Baldwin then puts his arm around Allen and whispers something in his ear while the bodies are being shown on the screen. So they're continuing to show more picks.

I continue to make additional sketches that I, I have not pulled up. Well, actually, what did I pull? I did actually have some other ones prepared. Let's see. Okay, nothing yet. So Abby, again, was wearing jeans that looked too big for her. A black sweatshirt, black sneaker.

And I can never tell there were one or two sneakers on her feet, but she had a black Conver sneaker on. And a logo sweatshirt that said Delphi sweatshirt. swimming. And there was one area below Abby that was saturated with blood. As you see a close-up of Libby's face, which was covered in blood, by the way, Libby was absolutely covered in blood everywhere. Her mother is just in tears. The male jurors are actually seeming to be the most upset. So this is, let's see. Okay, so this is what I mean by Abby. That's, those are the twigs right by Abby's wound. So, so big twigs like in that shape. That's what I meant. Um, right by your wound.

There's a close up of the left hand of Libby and has a lot of blood on her hand. And then they show a close up of Libby's right hand. And there's a lot of blood on her right hand too, which again, then to me implies because there was only one, grabbing herself perhaps because she was not cut on her hands, but both hands were very bloody. So detect crime scene investigator, Jason Page, goes on to explain that because Libby was unclothed, it was easier to see the trace evidence on Libby. So he had to start somewhere, he explains.

And so he started with Lible. Libby at the crime scene. Again, Libby's mother is in tears. And then I also wrote down that the public is in tears next to me. There were three women. And one of them was crying very hard. And she was someone that had been camping out with all of us. And there were a lot of tears in the courtroom.

The blood pattern on Libby's right thigh is shown and we are seeing closeups. and they explain as crime scene investigators that they did all of this before they moved anything or touched anything. My thoughts, by the way, on the blood pattern on Libby's thighs that we did see also to me, from my perspective, I believe she may have been standing at some point. And that is what happened because, of course, at this moment, the blood, is dry, but it was running down her thighs and then to the sides as well. This is hard. I know, guys, this is, I'm the messenger. I'm trying to be the best messenger here.

So he remained on scene until 10.30 p.m. Jason Page. The temperatures became colder and so he stayed and he returned the next day at 10 a.m. So this is where he explains some stains on the trees that have also been in question and the defense is brought up in their odinism theory. So again, there was a tree right next to Libby. They explained that latent blood stains, you can't see them readily. And so you have to use a chemical to develop to see blood stains in other places, especially with tree bark. Blood isn't going to necessarily just show up very easily on tree bark.

So he applied chemicals. and again, there's no Google in there. I put Lyco Crystal Violet. That's definitely not it. And I actually, I have this. I can show you this page because I drew a little, I drew another little art project for y'all. And, but a violet blood stain on the tree showed up.

A couple of them actually. This is the shape of the blood that I saw. At the bottom of the tree, right where Libby was. That's what I saw. So for those that question, I have questions about that. I know that there are a lot of thoughts on what that can mean. To me, it certainly seems as if Libby was next to the tree and the amount of blood I saw and her perhaps grabbing herself.

I'm not surprised to know there was also blood on the tree next to her. I did not make out any letters or any symbolism. Not to mention, again, it's bark. It's, it's, you know, it's crusty's. I don't even know if anyone would draw anything on bark. But my thoughts, I'll just keep being the messenger. They explain the Monon High Bridge. They bring up on the big screen a map of the Monon High Bridge.

Again, they have a walking bridge with like guardrails now. The girls went all the way across to a private side. meaning private property. And that's where they met Richard Allen and they were on this side. But their bodies were found at a floodplain.

It was actually probably more like here. Which means that they would have had to cross the creek. And so when they brought up that Abby's clothes were damp or wet and that they were also clothes found in the creek, there was certainly implication that they crossed the creek. although that was also, I think, argued by the defense.

Everything was implied, right, through all their questioning and cross-exam. But the clothes being wet was an important part, Abby's clothes being wet was an important part of today's questioning, and the defense seemed to want to imply that maybe the clothes weren't that wet, and it wasn't what they thought maybe it was just moisture. And again, if I accidentally say Richard Allen, let me explain again, this is his trial. They are not bringing him up.

I'm trying to relay the information, but certainly the prosecution is going to attempt to get the jury to believe that Richard Allen is guilty of these crimes. And I am laying out the evidence at the trial of Richard Allen. I do not know if they're going to be able to convince

the jury he is guilty or if he will be found guilty. But it is Richard Allen's trial. Okay. they have a lot of photos of different geography and maps. And I admittedly say, I don't really, I'm having a hard time understanding this geography. But again, I did a video that helped me yesterday. And if you want to understand the geography of this area and the location, including the

cemetery, go check out the video that I did. And now, and by the way, the prosecutor that was doing this questioning, I should have mentioned that. His name is Luttrell. and then we're still going. This is still before lunch, still before lunch, still before I did my lunch live. Now we have a far shot from across the creek showing crime scene tape.

And again, they state, Abby Williams' clothes, her clothes were damp, implying again that perhaps the girls with an individual crossed the creek. Prosecutor Luttrell is now questioning, Jason page again, or he's continuing to question him. You're right, because cross-exam did not start until after lunch. And so then it was lunch break. And that's when I did my live.

And I told you what I saw. So it's after lunch. I'm sitting there waiting for court to begin. I'm back in the courtroom. And I'm just making some notes of what I'm seeing. Again, Richard Allen, his beady eyes. He's 5 foot 5 or 5 foot 4, khaki belt, plaid shirt. Now we're going to do the cross-exam of crime scene investigator,

Jason Page and it was done, I believe, by Baldwin. I want to say, but you know what? I'm not quite sure. It might have been, actually, I don't think it was following. I can't remember. Guys, it's a blur. But the defense is cross-examining Jason Page. He directly asked him right out of the gate.

So do you have a time of death? Jason Page says, no, he doesn't. And then I, you know, and then he says, well, you know, buzzards. Animals are out there, right? Scavengers? How quickly could scavengers get to these bodies? Would this help you understand time frame of how long, perhaps, that the girls had been dead?

What about insects, he asks? Flies. Jason Page explains that there are many variables that can contribute to the time of death, which would also include insects or scavengers. The defense says, so then you really do not know when the... the time of death is then. That wasn't really answered, but certainly implied that, no, I don't know if the crime scene

investigators or the prosecution, time will tell. I think there will be more witnesses, but as far as with Jason Page, he could not really say the time of death and he was a crime scene investigator. Richard Allen is watching and he's rubbing his chin. Oh, this was interesting because he did it for so long. So Richard Allen kept doing this back and forth, back and forth, which, you know, we all do that sometimes, right? Like, it's like maybe like you're thinking.

He did it for a very long time and it was like this and he just kept going. Again, I don't know if these are nervous habits of his, but he does a lot of things on repeat, whether it's swaying or this. This was just like a moment. He kept going. the defense asks are you aware of any DNA tying Richard Allen to the scene he asked Jason page this and I my ears perked up because I think we all want to know that right is there any DNA right um is there anything that could tie Richard Allen the man on trial to this crime scene

Jason page quote I have limited knowledge I am not aware of of any end quote there you go so when i heard that i put in quotes because i thought i'll hope that maybe there is DNA went out the window for me but they continue to question were you able to recover any trace evidence at all not even any trace evidence of DNA are you aware of any rape kit test um the defense asks he he answers by saying he was not involved this in this part of the process. The defense asks, it appears that the sticks were placed on the body. Did you try to examine the sticks for any trace evidence? He's certainly putting questions into how good this crime scene investigation was, right? Jason Page pretty much says that he used white light

to look for trace evidence, the special white light, but he did not find anything. The defense goes on to Abby and her clothing. Jason Page recalled the clothing is damp. And so he says, but would you agree that there isn't any obvious waterline where Abby was walking, maybe in the creek? You didn't see a water line on these clothing, right? On these clothes, right? So the defense is definitely trying to put doubt into the judge.

jurors minds that maybe they didn't cross the creek, right? And I don't totally know why yet, but some interesting questioning. Did anyone measure the depth of that creek, the defense asks. Jason Page, no. In my opinion, the defense is actually winning some points on this cross exam. The defense continues to ask, the shoe impressions photographed on that scene. And Jason, page you took some supplementary photos jason page explains that he provided the supplement supplemental photos but after that he doesn't know what happened to them or what they determined as far as shoe imprints or who they belong to he again explains that he logged into the crime scene at 151 p.m. They show photo of the blood on the tree and that they say that jason page recommended that the state

get a blood splatter expert yes it's true jason page said jason page says jason page. that he did suggest that. And then we learned that he suggested that this year, according to the defense. So not back in 2017, in 2024. He suggested that the state get a blood splatter expert this year. It's not great.

Now the defense continues to ask just to kind of put some questions in for their investigation. How long does it take to get a test on hair? They're referring to a hair found sample found in Abby's hand. A sample. The defense is really pushing now. Jason Page seems defensive. And he is saying that he doesn't have that much control over this investigation. During this time, they're showing more exhibits, E through L. Richard Allen is looking around a lot. Like looking around, looking back at the gallery, looks back at the gallery, looks to the door multiple times and he looks confused by something.

Then they refer to cartridge. It took me a while to understand what they were referring to, an unspent bullet. They said they found it below Libby's foot at the crime scene. Now, this is the defense bringing this up, not prosecution. They said that they caught this unspent bullet, well, they call it a cartridge on a photo,

but it was not taken by Jason Page. It was taken by someone else. And there's a lot of discussion about this, whether or not he could initially saw it or if someone else could have dropped it. Clearly, again, the defense is jumping ahead of questioning, trying to create doubt that this bullet had anything to do with the crime scene and it was found just below Libby's foot. They're showing now earlier photos and the cartridge explaining how you couldn't see it at first of the crime scene.

But then Jason Page explains that the ground. did slightly move around with leaves and branches. There were so many leaves on the ground. And that is true. And remember, this is February. So all those leaves that I filmed yesterday on my walk, they were gone. The trees were bare and all the leaves were on the ground. So again, he just, Jason Page just continues discussing, and this just goes on in circles

forever. Shoulda, what, coulda, they're explaining chain of custody, who's in charge of what. The defense is questioning now with a map and a pointer and wondering. if Jason Page was ever asked to go search any other place besides the crime scene. And now we're going to have a redirect with Mr. Lutrell. So prosecution is back on a redirect with Jason Page. By the way, people are asking what the judge is doing during this. The judge is saying very little.

First off, there are very few objections, so the judge doesn't really need to say anything. There were occasional objections, mostly by the prosecution, sort of saying, come on asked and answered in when the objected, the judge sustained those objections, and then it moved on. But we did not hear from the judge a lot. So, and I write that down here, Judge, very few words, very few objections by attorneys of mine as asked and answered, which the judge sustained. They explain, let's go back to the insects.

So on redirect the prosecution, like, let's get back to these insects. Etymology was never used. for the time of death. But there were bugs there. So I guess there's the implication that they had really been there all night and the time of death was when the prosecution claims it was, which was during their time of disappearance,

that there would be, I guess, a lot of scavengers and or bugs around them. So they explained that there were bugs there. Nothing overt that he recalls. The cartridge was found and located. And up until that time, whoever was there, he named three to four people. Jim Cody stayed until an hour,

before we left. And then the coroner. And the cartridge was discovered prior to that. So explaining that nobody else brought that. They're just sort of, the prosecution is trying to really explain, look, this was there at the crime scene. No one brought it later. The crime scene was secured. This unspent bullet is, was there at the crime scene. And then they end on that. And then we have a new witness. And this would be the third witness today, Dwayne Datsman. He's a sheriff department. Retired three years and one month ago. from law enforcement, but he had been with the state police in 1987 and then a road trooper and a colonel and a sergeant and a crime scene investigator.

And he has done all of this for 20 years. Dwayne took a number of photos looking and confirming at the photos that he took, confirming that he took these photos. They're aerial photos above Deer Creek, a lot of aerial photos. They're showing state exhibit 67. And now they're showing the bodies again in large blood pools. So this was a hard moment. I thought I had seen the worst of it before lunch and it got worse after.

We see Sweet Abby a close up of her and a close up of her neck injury of her mouth is open. And there is again a slice on one side on her left right here. Yeah. And then they're showing the bottom of Libby's feet that there is blood all over her leg coming down. I again write, does this imply that she was standing and the blood came down? That also imply why she touched the tree to steady herself. I don't know. Would this be her grabbing? I don't know. But those were things across my mind. He then, this is when he found a 40 caliber cartridge by Libby's bare right leg. In other words, it's a bullet, he said. Crime scene. He's a, he's. He said. Crime scene. He He's been a crime scene investigator for 16 years. They did not, though, take the sticks that were at the scene. They left the sticks. The crime scene investigators chose to leave the sticks at the scene. They claimed that they were mossy and crumbly,

and they let them sit there. They've never had evidence like that or hold DNA or evidence. So they chose not to take the sticks. his opinion was that it was not best practice to take the sticks with how mossy and crumbly they were, whatever. Then we get back into the slide. Remember that slide or the disturbance? Now we learned that that slide,

we actually see a visual photograph of it. And it is an absolute slide. So at the end of Monon High Bridge, so essentially probably where Bridge Guy said, guys down the hill, that was down the hill. So now we know what that disturbance is, is guys down the hill sliding down the hill, implying that right when they got off the Monon High Bridge on where it was private property, there was a bridge guy that said guys down the hill, and that was likely that hill where they slid down.

And it was definitely cleared because there were so many leaves that had fallen. It was February that you could see that there were. was just a line of what looked like mud that had no leaves and the leaves are to the side. So definitely just disturbed piece of land. So the Monon High Bridge, east looking west, the side of the, so we're explaining the disturbance. I already explained that. We have an afternoon break. I'm again looking at Richard Allen.

He has bdi eyes, like innocent or guilty. He has bdi eyes. and his hands are behind back. I'm not sure what that was, but he's swaying. Oh yeah, his hands were like behind his back, maybe even holding his back, maybe his back hurt, but his hands were behind his back and he was swaying like this and looking around a lot with his beady eyes.

And that's when I also pointed out. They have not brought up Richard Allen once today. So I don't know what their plan is, but they have not, like I don't think they uttered his name today. It's like I wrote down, it's like they're still setting the state. for their argument as to why he is guilty of this crime. So we now have Baldwin on defense with Dwayne.

And he's a crime scene investigator as well. So we'll call him crime CSI Dwayne. And now we have cross-exam. And Baldwin is cross-examining with Dwayne. So Baldwin is saying shouldn't have this bullet have been photographed more? and Dwayne responds, it was photographed at the crime scene. We're looking at the photographs. I was like, it's true.

We're looking at the photographs at the crime scene. What do you want, Baldwin? But Baldwin says he's implying that the bullet might not be the same bullet. Oh, I'm saying that he's kind of implying that the bullet might not be the same bullet. And wouldn't have been good to document it more thoroughly, Baldwin is asking, to maybe take in better photos and close up photos of the bullet at the crime scene to really get that. and why was it not document and so but but dwayne at c s i dwayne disagrees he says no he says that that would not be good because you would want to just take a picture show it was there put it in a

plastic bag save it and not touch it because you don't want to disturb the evidence you want to get it to a place where they can test it properly and appropriately so he disagreed that baldwin then asks why it was not documented that abby's clothing was damp, according to the crime scene investigators. And Dwayne says he didn't notice that it was damp. That's interesting. Shoe prints he saw that looked similar to the victims. Baldwin asked if he saw the shoe prints of a small male adult at the same place as the victim's shoe prints.

Dwayne says he did not. Baldwin asked if this was an odd crime scene. Dwayne says it was not an odd crime scene. but Baldwin says, but the sticks and the odd pattern of the sticks, isn't that odd? And then there was a loud objection. We never got an answer to that. But Baldwin goes back to the sticks not being collected as evidence. Dwayne goes back to saying that they were crumbly and not good.

But someone, a human, had to have picked up the sticks. No, Baldwin explains. Dwayne says the sticks were collected a couple days later. That was not. That did not sound good. So he first claimed that they didn't need him, but then they collected him two days later. So that was kind of a win for the defense. Baldwin explains that there was blood splatter all over Libby's face.

And this is very, very true. And then he says, and you waited seven years for a blood splatter expert? Seven years, Baldwin exclaimed. Dwayne says, I have no idea. Baldwin explains that the shoe prints are problematic because there were many people searching near the crime scene of the crime We really haven't heard about shoe prints being evidence But if they are, they're definitely, you know, causing us to question those shoe prints

He's now asks and gets into what the girl's temperature was, their core temperature And Dwayne says he didn't measure due the possibility of a salt. They didn't want to insert anything in case there was assault and they needed to do a kit, an R kit. And but Baldwin continues to ask questions about the crime scene and why they weren't able to get the core temperature of the victims. Did you take all the sticks that had blood on them? And Detective Dwayne says, no. And Baldwin says, you don't know that the, and then, so there's some argument about that, like, why would you have not taken the sticks with blood on them and and CSI, Dwayne explains that oftentimes they can't take everything with blood at a crime scene.

They end up taking what they need and cleaning the rest of it up. Baldwin says, but you, Baldwin then says directly, you do not know that the girls cross the creek. And Dwayne says, admit, so yeah, he doesn't know. Prosecution, Lutrell does the redirect with CSI Dwayne. and brings up that the jury has questions. And this is the jury's questions. Again, I always like to know what the jury's questions are. Is this the same bullet?

So I guess one jury had questions about if the bullet had been discussed back and forth with the same bullet. Yes. Another juror's question, is there a process for the jury to see evidence that is not tampered? End quote. That kind of shows that the defense is winning points there, in my opinion. The defense then, oh, Dwayne, sorry, the detective, or CSI Dwayne explains their process and reassures how they're going to see evidence that is not tampered.

Is evidence sealed? Yes, it is completely sealed. The evidence is protected and sealed and has been protected. The jury concludes their questions. And now we have the new witness and the last witness of the day. day. Thanks everyone for being here. I see we have nearly 5,000 people in chat. Thank you for being here, and I'm glad to know that this is helpful. I'm so grateful for every creator and a person in there that is relaying information to the public. I'm doing my best. I'm not perfect, but I hope that this

just can help with some puzzle pieces, and I can share what I heard today. So our new witness was Ryan O'Le. And I don't know how to pronounce his last name, but I heard him spell it, O-L-E-H-Y. And Ryan is now with the Indiana Game Commission. He regulates gaming in the state of Indiana. But from 1995 to 2021, he was employed by the Indiana State Police. And he was a trooper. He was a P-I-O for Northwest Indiana State Police, meaning a public information officer. and in the fall of 2015, he was a sergeant and crime scene investigator for seven years. He guesses, so Ryan guesses that he's been about 275 to 350 crime scenes, and of those crime scenes, one third of them involved a death.

On February 14th, 2017, he was called out. He appeared, it appeared to be a homicide with foul play. He was called in by his supervisor, and he had worked with Paige and Dax in the past. I think he means Dwayne. So Dwayne's last name. So Paige with Jason Page and Dwayne. He'd work with them both in the past. So the two other witnesses today. He arrived at the bridge trail near the old cemetery. He parked in the back of the south end of the cemetery. So again, that's where everyone is going to go head to the crime scene is the old cemetery. Detective Hammond and go down to the Deer Creek to the heavily wooded floodplain. It was wooded

and February temps were about 55 to 57 degrees this day. He did not have a gun or ammo with him. And now they show a photo, the north side of Deer Creek, a bank, and the water is really high. I'm seeing just how high the water is in Deer Creek. There are items of clothing in the creek, and now we are seeing this. We're seeing a hooded sweatshirt that is hanging on branches in the creek, a tie-dye shirt, a Nike athletic shoe, a pink sock, a camisle. a camsule with black pink writing. The brand is faded glory, size 10 to 12 large.

We're seeing that jeans are collected from the creek. They're inside out. And they're inside out. And off of them, women's underwear is connected to the legs of these inside out jeans. So it's like someone took the jeans off with the underwear. And it was still connected with the legs inside out. Pink underwear. Tie-dye shirt, T-shirt,

extra large colored tone brand and then they found another sock with debris this was all things that they found in the creek they also found a bandana in the creek during these photos being shown once again defense attorney baldwin has his arm around richard allen and i wrote like for minutes like they sat there watching the screen it's just interesting to me watching the screen front row seats And Baldwin has his arm just hanging around Allen's for like minutes, just watching together. Comaery, arm around him. The Nike athletic shoe was black with the white swoop and black laces. The hooded sweatshirt was a fleece type, a zip up, and it looked gray.

And as I recall, Abby and her last photo was wearing a hooded zip-up hoodie. Okay, and I mentioned that Baldwin took his arm down and I again explained that Abby is fully clothed. Libby's mom is crying and there's another photo of Libby that is very graphic and it is so graphic that there is an audible gasp in the gallery when we see Libby a close up of Libby's face and her neck and we see just how deep it is. it is true what they've it is true what they've stated

that Libby's wounds were much deeper than Abby's wound yeah so an audible gasp when you saw just how bad it was and just so much blood and it putting out the movement of the blood

and the dry blood all over this crime scene and blood moving onto her face. During this entire time, Richard Allen is just watching. There's a gaping wound. So I explained that, and I actually think that that's also what, how the witness explained it.

Ryan, that there was a gaping wound, and we actually saw it, and then he pointed out how the branch, one of those big branches, obscured the large gaping wound. on Libby. And again, Libby's mother, her face is in her hand in this time with tears and her daughter is consoling her. They then show his hands again, her right hand covered in blood, and then her left hand

covered in blood. And they are showing now how they systematically removed the sticks to get into the, to be able to see more. And so we're seeing the photos as they removed the sticks. And that's why we're able to see the Gating Moon even more is because they showed it before the stick was removed and after the stick was removed. They explained that the blood was moving from one area to the thigh

to another area of the thigh. They point out the goose bumps on her skin. This is how it's close up at this. They see as you can see her goosebumps. And the blood is coming down. They show that the trails of blood, which indicate movement on even, there are different trails of blood.

which shows that there was different movement with Libby, in other words. They show the backside of Libby. They show as they lift her up at the crime scene and they show her backside. Richard Allen is watching. And this whole thing, I'm just watching the screen. These are very, very difficult photos. They show some close-ups of Abby now. And again, they're going to do the same thing with Abby,

systematically removing the branches so that you can see what's going on. And so I want to show very, I want to explain exactly how her hands were because there's been a lot of questions and it was really confusing and they closed up and they even demonstrated it. So she had a Delphi swimming sweatshirt on which belonged to Libby and she was wearing it and her hands were up like this but they were covered completely by a sweatshirt. So her hands were actually in the sweatshirt. So her hands were actually in the sweatshirt and she was like this, which to me is just like this heartbreaking pose. If you think about, I don't know.

I don't know, but her, the sweatshirt went over her hands like this. They actually showed photos of how they then removed the sweatshirt from her hand, and this is how they were. They explained it as maybe a fighter stance or in an upward position, but their hands were inside the sleeves like this. she had on very large jeans that looked like they were too large for her and they were wet. There wasn't even a question.

They called the pants wet. Ryan was like, these pants were wet. They were beginning to dry, but the t-shirt and the hooded sweatshirt were all wet, and it was not condensation. So he was the most specific witness of all that these were absolutely, absolutely wet. They explained that it was a 26-inch waistband pants that were found in the Deer Creek, which again means that she was a very tiny, petite girl, and these jeans clearly were her friends that were not the same size, and they were large. So again, she was in blue clothing.

Abby's neck, again, her wound was to the left. It was like kind of right under her ear, and it was right there. Libby is essentially, I'm just going to be off across her entire neck. It was big. I'll never forget that gasp. And as we got a close up of Abby's neck to, once again, the entire gallery gasped because they just don't give you any warning. They just put this up and you're seeing these little girls.

So again, they're putting the, they're pulling the sleeve down and they're showing her left hand like this. they then there's no blood or wounds on her hands no blood there they're clean so it doesn't look like she grabbed anything or did anything and then um they show her other hand and they show her other hand is like this as they pull the sleeves down and then again they mentioned how the genes are far too large for Abigail but most importantly you can see just how wet the jeans are and they made a note to do a close-up and show that the jeans were wet. The right foot of Abigail had the black converse. It was a tennis shoe that she was wearing in the bridge picture

that they posted before the crime, the last photo ever seen with Abby. And again, she also had a zip-up hoodie and some other things that looked, sound familiar to what they found in the creek. So a lot of, I believe, Abby's clothes were found in the creek. There was a tennis shoe under Abby and they showed a picture as they lifted her up and showed the shoe and it was the other Nike.

Now, it's exactly what I said. It matched the Nike that was found in the creek. The shoe was obscured by the hooded sweatshirt. So they didn't even know the shoe was there until they started taking the branches off and pulling up the sweatshirt and they realized that the shoe was there. The sole of the shoe had mud on it. The back of the sweatshirt, now you could see it, it said German on it. and the cell phone, there was a cell phone under Abbey. Now, this is the first time I heard. I'd always heard that the phone was inside of the shoe. That's not what they said today, and it's not what they showed,

because they actually showed photos of the phone on the ground. They said that the cell phone was found under Abbey, but that the shoe obscured the cell phone. So the shoe was under Abbey, and the phone was under the shoe. So boom, boom. And when they lifted, you could see some of the phone was also under some leaves, and they took pictures of where they found it and how you could see it. It had a Harry Potter-tholdreth case on it, a Harry Potter themed case, and it was directly under Abby covered by the shoe. At this moment, Richard Allen is swaying.

He's doing the swing thing. As they're explaining this, going back and forth, and I was sitting next to a Dateline producer, and we both noticed. they looked at each other. Ryan explains that he attended the autopsies, and then the judge says, we're going to take a quick break. We've been in here. It was nearing 6 p.m.

And then she said, we still have a lot more to cover today. And we thought, oh, gosh, okay. And then the jury went out. We stood for the jury because it felt like we just kind of broke in the middle of like some important stuff. And then as that happened, they said, we're recessing. The judge said, we're recessing. We'll see y'all back tomorrow.

we'll start at night. So that was the day. Let me see if there's anything else I want to show you guys. No, I think I got, I drew a few other things. Well, I'll show you this. I'll show you what I drew of Abby and then we'll call it a night because I've got to get some sleep before. I have to camp out again. I'll tell you guys, this is, this isn't just emotionally draining. I just want to you know, this is physically draining for anyone that is doing this every day. They're incredible. And I'm so grateful that people are. It's not sustainable. There are times where I'm falling asleep in court, which is so upsetting because I know how important it is to be there. So it's like you're taking your pick. Do you sleep or do you attend court? Or, you know, how do I make the most of this? So thank you,

everyone to your deport and for being here tonight. I just want to show you this one drawing. This explains how Abby's arms were, the Delphi is swimming. This is Abby. And I actually said her pants were embotened, but I'm not quite sure if they're embattened. I think they might have just been that loose. So don't quote me on that. And then again, the pants are large and she is wet.

The top is beginning to dry, but it was also wet. And the hands are in her sleeves of the sweatshirt. So that's one other thing. So I have quite a few drawings like that. But anyway, it was a big day for witnesses. Some wins for the defense, certainly. And I don't know about some wins for the prosecution. Because, again, they haven't even mentioned Richard Allen's name.

And I think they're still setting the stage. And the defense is taking shots while they can while they're setting the stage before they can even get their whole narrative out. So it's definitely an interesting trial. It's in a very, very grand old, courtroom. We're talking at least 20 foot ceilings, it's not taller, with like eight chandeliers coming down or lights. You've got sconces on the wall, all these moldings, all this woodwork. You've got the old wooden theater chairs that were probably built in 1919 in their original

and we're all sitting in these wooden theater chairs that fold down. And because of this grand room, picture no microphones, and the acoustics are terrible. We're all straining to hear anything and everything. So we're all doing our best in there. We're all exchanging notes and all of us, a lot of compassion for each other. Even when some of us are falling asleep, we understand we're all doing our best. I went and grabbed granola bars from people after my lunch live to hand out to a few people because we're not eating in there. There's no food allowed at the courthouse, no drinks, not even water allowed in the courtroom. And again, a big thank you to Renee, who I woke up in my sleeping bag outside the courtroom

steps to Dunkin Donuts and coffee and snacks. It was so kind. Thank you to everyone for your kindness. We'll keep it going. So that's the latest. And thank you for being here tonight. If you appreciate this and if you value this, please hit subscribe and notification. I'm never going to be able to ever schedule lives during this trial because court can go as long as the judge wants it to go. It could end at eight. It could end up four. And then lunch lives, I don't know how they're going to go today. I was able to do one because lunch was an hour and a half, but sometimes they're a half hour long.

So just stick with me. We will do our best. And there might be times where I just hit a wall. And I'll get notes from someone else. But we're all doing our best so that we can get this very, very, very fast. private trial out to the open. And whatever, whatever the jury decides, may justice be served for Libby and Abby.

This is so heartbreaking. So very heartbreaking. Keep their family in your thoughts. I can't imagine what it would be like to have this trial. And it's been seven years in the making. They've waited seven years for this. So keep them in your thoughts, your prayers, your good vibes, whatever you do.

And we'll get through this. All right. Thanks, everyone. Have a good night. And we'll see you tomorrow. Most people don't realize how much their personal information is being bought and sold every day. Data brokers are making billions, pulling details about you from public records and the Internet, and then packaging and selling it, usually without your consent. That's how your information lands in the hands of scammers, spammers, even stalkers. It's why you get endless robocalls and why ads seem to follow you everywhere. That's where ORA comes in. ORA actively removes your data from broker's sites and keeps it off.

They also instantly alert you if your information shows up in a breach or on the dark web. But ORA goes beyond data protection. With one app, you get a VPN, antivirus, password manager, spam call protection, dark web monitoring, and even up to $5 million in identity theft insurance, all backed by 24-7 U.S.-based fraud support. Other companies might sell just credit monitoring, or just a VPN. ORA gives you all of it, together, at the same price competitors charge for just one. one service. Start your free trial today atora.com slash remove. Protect yourself now atora.com slash remove.