Hidden True Crime - Duggar Scandal Just Got Bigger — What Police Found in the Home | Joseph + Kendra Duggar Case

Episode Date: March 24, 2026

What started as shocking allegations against Joseph Duggar has now exploded into something far bigger—and far more disturbing. In this breaking update, Hidden True Crime unpacks newly released jail calls, Kendra Duggar’s arrest and footage, and the alarming details uncovered during a search of their home that led to new charges against both parents. As investigators zero in on conditions inside the household—including allegations that raise serious questions about child safety—this case is no longer just about one accusation, but a potential pattern tied to a deeply rooted family system and belief structure. Lauren Matthias walks through what’s confirmed, what’s being reported, and the growing questions surrounding the Duggar family, their parenting practices, and whether this points to something much larger beneath the surface. Sponsors: Brodo: Head to https://Brodo.com/HTC for 20% off your first subscription order and use code HTC for an additional $10 off. Wayfair: Find furniture, decor, and essentials that fit your unique style and budget. Head to https://Wayfair.com right now to shop all things home. Rocket Money: Let Rocket Money help you reach your financial goals faster. Join at https://RocketMoney.com/TCP About Hidden True Crime What started as a simple conversation at their dinner table became a captivating podcast. Join the dynamic duo of Dr. John Matthias, a criminal psychologist, and Lauren Matthias, an investigative journalist, as they delve into the psychological facets of unthinkable crimes every week. Their unique perspectives and in-depth analysis offer a fresh take on true crime storytelling. Thank you for your support through sponsorships, subscribing, listening, and becoming a Patreon member at⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Patreon.com/HiddenTrueCrime⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Client was paid $1,000 for their testimonial, creating a conflict of interest. Outcomes vary. 3.3% base APII as of January 30th, 20206,000, as representative variable and earned on funds swept to program banks. 0.65% new client boost for three months on up to $150,000. Direct deposit $1,000 a month and fund an investing account for a 0.25% increase. Cash account offered by Wealthfront Brokerage LLC, member FINRA, SIPC, not a bank. What began as shocking criminal charges against Joseph Dugger is turning into something darker and deeper. As jail calls have been released, Kendra's arrest videos been released, alleged no contact orders, they're in place, and a family narrative is being obliterated.

The March 18, 26, arrest on charges tied to the alleged unlawful sexual activity with a minor, led investigators to search Joseph and Kendra Dugger's home. And what they say they found there led to new charges against the case. both of them, raising urgent questions, not just about one household, but about a broader Dugger family system that critics say has normalized extreme control in the name of discipline. So if you thought the Dugger downfall was going from bad to worse, it just seems to be getting worse every day. We have some pretty major updates in the Dugger situation.

And honestly, it feels like every time we talk about this, it just keeps getting worse. What started as one set of allegations is now turning into something that could impact more than just the Duggers. And the fallout from all of this is getting bigger by the day. So let's walk through what we know so far and then get into what's being reported now. Because there is a lot to unpack. My name is Lauren Matthias and this is hidden true crime. As we've already covered, on March 18, 26, Joseph Dugger was taken into custody and booked into the Washington County, jail in Fayetteville, Arkansas. At that point, he was being held while awaiting extradition to Florida.

And the reason for that extradition is because of charges tied to alleged lewd and lascivious behavior involving unlawful sexual activity with a minor. And once those allegations came out, investigators did what they typically do in cases like this. They look into the home environment. It's standard. It's smart. It's safe. Right. And when there are allegations involving a minor, especially sexual allegations of abuse. They want to make sure that any children in that home are safe. So Joseph and Kendra's home was searched as part of that process. And during that investigation, something was found that led to additional charges,

not just for Joseph, but for both Joseph and Kendra, which we've reported on. Kendra was arrested. They were each charged with four counts of second degree endangering the welfare of a minor, along with four counts of second-degree false imprisonment. We now also have footage from inside the jail after Kendra ultimately turned herself in. So let's watch this together. You keep out.

Thanks for pushing and there's a she should have. I suppose we're all right. So I'll see the grand bitch over here. You might just. Thank you. Is that way you not to read my hand out of them right? What is it? You got too pretty right on my ball.

I start the job. No, that's kind of a session. That is not, hey. Open your mouth, time out, hang up. Okay, take it. Yeah. Dad, I'm going to go over again your side. No.

Is that okay? Yeah. Yeah. You go to your name and then. What are he goes? Get all something you're going? Yes, pretty good. Yes, thank you.

We're good too. Go ahead. I haven't started. They have no property. They have no property. So after you come down, you're up, you come up?

Are we done with her? With her? Let's get the problem. Right? We're going to get a phone. Hello? You haven't followed me? Oh, what's good enough?

I'll see it. Hey, it'll call me. He's the boxwlinger, Sprino brought him in, and then... You take your medicine today? Are you going okay? Okay. I'm going to call my night and you're here, okay? Okay.

Don't get me down? Okay. Okay. Okay. You don't do that. I'm a fairly left like this. Yeah. It's got a top of a few shirts.

That's it. That's it. Sir, that's just. You can for a... Yeah. It's that same time. It's interesting to see Kendra in pants, I'll say, instead of a usual dress or skirt. And it just might be an indication.

by the way that she isn't as deep into the IBLP faith anymore. IBLP, again, is the methods that the Duggers have all sort have followed and been a part of. We talk a lot about this in our first episode that you can find in pinned comments or description of this episode. So, as we've mentioned, when those charges first came out, people immediately started speculating because Joseph and Kendra have four children, right? So naturally, we're wondering if those charges, four of them, are four counts, are tied to their kids. And now we're learning that, yes, that does appear to be the case. According to insiders connected to the family, the reason those charges are being brought is because investigators allegedly found that there were two bedrooms in the home, two bedrooms, where the locks were installed on the outside of the doors instead of the inside of the doors. locks on the outside of a bedroom door, right, essentially means someone can be locked inside a room from the outside.

And in the state of Arkansas, depending on the circumstance that can be illegal when it comes to children, you cannot confine a child in a locked room like that. It falls under false imprisonment and child endangerment, which is exactly what we're seeing reflected in the charges. Now, there are people who have questioned whether investigators were already looking for anything that could be considered problematic once those original allegations against Joseph came out. And I think that's a fair question to ask. When law enforcement and child protective services get involved in a case like this, they're going to be thorough. They're going to look at everything. And yes, sometimes that means even things that might have otherwise gone unnoticed, they're going to be scrutinized. And this is where things start to get even more.

interesting because those close to the Dugger family are reportedly pushing back on all of this. They're claiming that CPS is treating this as evidence that Kendra was detaining and endangering her children. They've acknowledged that the investigation was triggered by Joseph's arrest for the incident in Florida back in 2020. At the same time, they're clearly trying to separate Kendra from Joseph's alleged. alleged crimes. They're saying that her arrest has nothing to do with his case and that she has no involvement in those alleged acts. Okay, fair. But the way this is sort of being put out publicly, at least from their side, is that this is an injustice to Kendra, that the children being removed from the home is overreach. There's a heavy implication according to what the

family is trying to get out there through a spokesperson, that CPS. is making this into something bigger than it actually is. But here's where another piece comes in. If your morning coffee just isn't hitting the same lately or you're on that second or third cup throughout the day trying to power through, I feel you. I've been adding a second drink, though, to my daily routine. Bone broth. Yes, bone broth. This podcast episode is sponsored by Broto. And after sipping their broth, I can truly say, I love it. So does, Dr. John, my favorite right now is the Tuscan Sun flavor, which is a rosemary lemon. It doesn't taste like what you think bone broth might taste like. It's rich, it's savory, and actually

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Once again, that's Broto.com slash HTC for 20% off your first subscription order. order and an additional $10 off if you use my promo code HTC. There are also reports that locking children in their rooms is not something unique to Joseph and Kendra, that it may actually be a practice that's been normalized within sort of this broader family culture. And if that's true, then yes, that's a huge deal because that would suggest that this isn't being seen internally in this family is something dangerous or abusive. It's just what you do. It's being seen as a form of discipline or control to lock children in their rooms, that this might be part of an authoritarian parenting style of raising children that the Duggers adhere to. And honestly, this ties into a larger

conversation and questions that the public has, including me. I personally have these questions about the environment these children are being raised in and that perhaps all about the Dugger children have been raised in, right? From the very beginning, from the moment we were watching them on TLC, and why we're maybe seeing these sort of repeated crimes or similar crimes committed within one family system. So first Josh and now is little brother Joseph. We've talked a lot about the concept of blanket training in the family, which has been associated, again, with this family for years. We delve into that again in our first episode, and you can check that out on our full playlist on this case. But a quick rundown, blanket training is a

controversial method of disciplining very young children as young as six months old by training them to stay on a blanket by repeatedly punishing them each time they move off. And look, let's talk about this because what's important to understand here is that at that age a child is not being defiant. They're being developmentally normal babies and toddlers that are wired to explore, to move, to touch, to test their environment, to walk and crawl off the blanket. That's actually how their brain develops. So when you're punishing a child, a young child for leaving a blanket, you're not correcting bad behavior.

You're interrupting a critical stage of brain development. My personal thoughts on blanket training is that the most concerning part about it is that it works. It absolutely can produce strict obedience in young children. but not without a cost. Because early childhood, especially those first few years, is when children are learning how to experience emotions, not regulate emotions yet, but experience them. And that includes big emotions, frustration, distress, even those tantrums that are so famous in those so-called terrible twos and terrible threes. They're actually completely healthy and necessary developmental stages. Those moments are how children build emotional awareness and eventually learn regulation later in life.

But when strict obedience is enforced too early, especially through punishment, it can teach a child that their natural impulses, their curiosity, even their emotions are wrong. And over time, that can lead to shame, suppression of emotion, and difficulty forming a healthy sense of self. because instead of learning what do I feel, the child learns what is expected of me. And that's a very different foundation for identity. Those early years are also when curiosity is at its peak. Children are forming connections. They're building memories. They're learning cause and effect and consequences on their own.

And limiting that exploration through fear-based obedience can actually stall parts of that developmental process. and going back to the strict authoritarian style of parenting that I see in many of the Institute of Basic Life Principles, again, the IBLP methods that the Duggers followed and taught, I think it's important to talk about Jim Bob and Michelle's parenting choices. I actually think it's fair to talk about them because they didn't just practice these methods. They promoted them. Here's what Michelle had to say about blanket training in her book. Throughout the day when I knew I would have five months.

minutes or more of uninterrupted time. I would focus on blanket training calling out, okay boys, it's blanket time. Oh, isn't this fun? Come pick a toy so we can have blanket time. Some days we might practice blanket time three or four times. Other days, we only got it in once. But gradually, it became a common practice. The boys learned to spread out their own blankets than they eagerly chose a special toy to play with. Gradually, I increased the duration of blanket time, praising them for sitting quietly and playing with their toy in the blanket and correcting them when they tried to get off. If they threw the toy off the blanket, they weren't allowed to get off the blanket to get it back, and as a result, they learned not to throw their toys. As the blanket

training continued over several days, I would walk around the corner out of their sight, but still able to peek around and see them. If one of them made a loud noise or got off the blanket, I would come flying in with a stern word and a quick correction. I didn't raise my voice and I didn't sound angry, but it was almost obvious that crawling off the blanket or making noise wasn't allowed. And if they're going to promote these parenting styles and they had a platform to promote it for years, I'm going to suggest why I think they have it absolutely wrong. And because again, the question that keeps coming up is, why do we see repeated harm in the same family system? I want to to know. Why? I think it's fair. We talk about this. They promoted it for years. My co-host,

Dr. John Matthias, is a criminal and clinical psychologist with a background in marriage, family, and child counseling. And we will be diving deeper into family systems in a later episode. So make sure you're subscribed and have notifications on. Because it hidden true crime, we're not just looking at what happened. We're looking at why. The hidden motives, the psychological patterns and what lies beneath the surface of these cases. So back to Kendra and Joseph. What some people are commenting online are now saying is that as children get older and graduate from that blanket training phase, the control methods evolve and one of those methods

may be physically restricting their movement by how by locking them in rooms. Now to be clear, this is what's being alleged and discussed. we don't know. But if that's even partially accurate, I think that it paints a concerning picture, in my opinion, and something that should be talked about, because we're not just talking about one decision made in isolation. We're talking about a pattern or a belief system or a parenting style that could affect multiple children across multiple households or multiple generations. And that's likely part of why there's such a strong reaction happening right now. Plus, we already know that the Duggers have a tendency to downplay things in the media. They've done it again and again, right?

When publicly discussing Josh's crimes, Joseph's older brother, Josh's crimes against his own sisters, take a listen to how they try to minimize those actions. We had one way of hope and that Josh had a tender conscience and he was the one that came and shared on his own, even though the others really didn't know anything of his wrongdoing. This is a young boy who has come to you with shocking information. What did he say? I mean, how did you respond to him? What was that like, that exchange? It was so much grief in our hearts. I think as parents, we felt, we're failures. Here we tried to raise our kids to do what's right, to know what's right. And yet, one of our children made some really bad choices.

And I think as a parent, we were just devastated. Did he explain why? I mean, was that a question that you asked? He said he was just curious about girls, and he had gone in and just basically touched them over their clothes while they were sleeping. They didn't even know he had done it. And so we went, and the first thing was to protect the girls. And so we went in. The girls all slept together.

Yes, the girls had two bedrooms at the time. But how many girls were we talking about that? We had five girls at the time. And so, but anyway, he went in and said he had done this. And so we, first off, of course, really talked to him, and then we went and talked to all the girls and children. It was so important for us as parents to talk to our girls and make sure that nothing else had happened.

So what did they say? Well, one by one, as we talked with them, none of them were aware of Josh's wrongdoings. So they learned about it from you. Yes. Yes. At that point, he had said that he had done this to how many of the girls? That was to two. Okay.

But neither one had any recollection of it. They did not know. And what was their reaction when they learned it from you? They really didn't know. Actually, what happened was we asked them at first, if anything happened. And then it was after some other things happened that we actually shared with them. And we actually, but we took a lot of steps. And first, we tried to deal with this in-house as parents. We were in shock and we were trying to figure out what was the next step.

And, but really, looking back, we did the best we could under the circumstances. What am I going to do? You're saying, he says he's touched two of the daughters and you don't know what to do. Right? I didn't know, because at that point now, nobody knew about it. And besides Michelle and I and Josh. And so we thought, what do we do? do with this information. And the girls, we talked to them and they didn't, they didn't know that anything had happened because they were asleep. And so we talked to him. We put all kinds of punishments on him. We watched him like all the time. I took him to work with me. And he just, I mean, we just poured our life into him. Were you scared? Like when you went to bed at night during

that time frame, were you scared? Were you worried? You know, he's 14. He's having this problem. what's going to happen when we go to sleep. Right. Nothing ever happened like that again in the girls' bedrooms after that. Okay. Okay. So we had safeguards that protected them from that. But there was another incident where, two different instances,

where girls were, like, laying on the couch. And it was a, and he had touched, like, over the couch and actually touched the breast while they were asleep. And so, yeah, over their clothes. And so it was a very difficult situation. But as we've talked to other parents and different ones since then, a lot of families have said that they've had similar things happen in their families. And so, I mean, this is for us, of course, this is public shame that our son did this. They also did this when Jana, the oldest Dugger daughter, was charged in 2021 with endangering the welfare of a minor after the child that she was babysitting slipped out of the house and was found by a pastor by.

The family framed it as an innocent mistake, which, hey, those innocent mistakes do happen. We give people grace for innocent mistakes, but also sometimes innocent mistakes can also have real consequences. And now it seems that the Dugger family may be sort of framing Kendra's charges as some conspiracy to get the children removed. But also, what is it with this family? Either a child escapes without notice or a child is locked in their room. Are we now not all wondering if this is really just a simple, innocent mistake or a conspiracy, or maybe actually a larger issue showing a pattern of neglect? I don't know. But now let's talk about what's happened since the arrest, because there's a lot.

There's something about this time of year where I just want my home to feel a little bit more put together, lighter, more functional, a spring refresh of sorts. Dr. John and I have actually been working on a little refresh in the background for our episodes together and you will be seen it soon, very soon. But here's the truth, honestly, I don't have time to go store to store trying to piece it all together. So that is why I have been using Wayfair, whether it's updating a space, organizing things, or just finding that one piece that pulls everything together, they make it really easy to find exactly what works for your style and your budget. I love how you can filter everything, read reviews, and actually feel confident in what you're ordering, we found pieces that just fit seamlessly into our home

and make everyday life feel a little bit more organized, but also beautiful and timeless. And look, while I like a good trend, I love timeless. Find furniture, decor, and essentials that fit your unique style and budget. Head to Wayfair.com right now to shop all things home. That's W-A-Y-F-A-I-R.com. wayfair every style every home after joseph and kendra were taken into custody it was joseph's parents michelle and jim bob dougar who stepped in and bailed kendra out and that too raised a lot of eyebrows including mine because a lot of people expected that if anyone was going to step in for kendra

it would be her own parents the coldwells especially since there's been reports over the years that she wasn't particularly close with the Dugger family or her in-laws in the same way some of the other spouses have been. So naturally, people are asking, why is she with the Duggers right now? Why aren't her own parents involved? Where are the Caldwells? And this brings us to another thing that I do want to discuss. It is extremely sensitive and I want to be clear before we even get into this. This is speculation. There's been no. official confirmation of these specific details. At the same time, due to public evidence, it's become a major part of the conversation online. And honestly, it's hard to fully understand

what might be happening in this case without laying all of this out. Context matters. So there are entire communities, YouTube channels, Reddit threads, Facebook groups dedicated to following the Dugger family. And I'm not just talking surface level stuff. are people who have followed them for years, who understand the family dynamics, the belief system, the relationships between spouses, and in some cases even claim to have connections to people within their extended circle. So while none of this is confirmed, some of the theories being discussed are based on patterns. They're based on timelines and insider context. That at least make people stop and think. Like a lot of it is evidence. I guess you should say, I should say online. It's people

speculating online, but speculating with evidence. So it doesn't make this fact, but it does make it worth discussing carefully. To really understand this, we need to back up and talk about Kendra for a minute. Kendra is the oldest of nine children. So a lot of children in her family, too. Her parents are Paul and Christina Caldwell, and her father, Paul, is a pastor. Kendra's dad being a pastor is important because faith and authority within the church play a huge role in how situations like this are handled in the community, not just this situation, but all situations. Kendra Caldwell met Joseph Dugger at Lighthouse Baptist Church, where her father was actually the pastor. Their relationship started as a,

courtship, which is typical in their belief system and means they date with a chaperone or supervision. So again, authority is even involved in the dating process. The Duggers love authority. And no kissing until the wedding day, too. To understand actually a little bit more about courtship, I'll read you an excerpt from the Dugger family blog on the difference between dating and courting. So it says, quote, not everyone defines modern dating the same way, fair, but the most of the majority of Americans view it as kind of like this, a casual romantic relationship between two people for a purpose of having fun and enjoying one another. The dating relationship may or may not

be for the purpose of marriage. In modern dating, there is usually little to know accountability from family, friends, or mentors. The couple spends a lot of time alone, often in intimate settings. True. We don't want authority. A lot of people in intimate settings. Nonetheless, I'll keep going. That was my little side comment. Anyway, the motives for casual dating are typically self-serving and tend to include heavy doses of physical intimacy. Often, it's just for fun. Instead of answering the question, how can I find someone who will make me happy right now? Courtship strives to answer the question, how can I honor God and discern his direction regarding my life partner?

The process of courtship seeks to avoid many of the pitfalls that often exist in dating. relationships. Courtship is a commitment to honor and protect both individuals in the process of getting to know one another. Because each person, family, instead of circumstances, is unique, each relationship will be unique, exclamation point. While those who choose a courtship model may hold to general guidelines for the relationship, their specific choices about when, where, and how may differ according to their needs and circumstances. The concepts presented here are simply helpful things to consider each couple must discern God's direction for the specific steps of their courtship, and it can be helpful to seek advice from parents or other mentors.

If during the courtship relationship, one or both parties realize that marriage is not God's will, and they end the relationship. So not if they decide. It's only if God decides, again, making God the end-all be-all authority. I'll keep going. Side comment. Authority, authority, authority. Then the courtship has not failed.

quite the opposite. The courtship was successful because God gave the direction that was sought through it, end quote. So there you go. Authority. As for the supervision part of the courting aspect, don't worry, there's more. The block continues. I'm going to read it here. Here's what the Duggers say. So I'm going to keep reading. Quote, another difference between dating and courtship is accountability. In a dating relationship, there is usually little, if any, accountability for the couple and limited interaction with family members. The dating couple often pursues a relationship that is independent of others' influence in counsel. Again, yeah. Independence is something that it seems like the Duggers really don't like. So courtship isn't about independence. Courtship is about,

well, let's keep going. So, when there is a lack of accountability, the couple may easily give into temptation and fail to consider their responsibility to honor each other in purity and genuine love. In courtship, a couple seeks the accountability of their parents or other mentors, aka authority, lack of identity and no sense of self in the Dagger household. They continue. It is so essential to have old. older godly mentors in our lives. We need people. We can trust to give us good advice to not only tell us what we want to hear, but also what we need to hear. We need people, aka authority, with whom we can communicate our relationship standards, knowing they will help us stick to the goals we've

set for ourselves. We need people in our lives who are seeking our spiritual good, who love us enough to ask tough and uncomfortable questions and with whom we can be totally open and honest. If you do not have a wise mentor, you can trust, seek one out. Get involved in a solid Bible teaching church. So don't go get therapy. Get involved in a Bible teaching church and find a mature Christian you can come alongside of to learn from. So that's where you need to seek your mentor.

Secret sins are often the ones that have the most powerful. power over our lives and the greatest ability to destroy. So if we are being tempted in certain areas, bringing these struggles into the open by talking with a trusted mentor can put us on a path to overcoming those sins and walking in freedom. It is human nature to strive harder to achieve a goal when we know someone will be checking up on us. Love should be the motivation for accountability with a hope of supporting the couple's goal to honor God and one another with purity. in their words and actions, end quote. You know, a lot of talk, I'll just say this, about freedom in that little article,

blog article, blog, whatever it is, bloggy article, a lot of talk of freedom and a lot of talk of quasi-choice. but really, if you look at the entire thing, again, it's about not trusting yourself and trusting an authority over your own sense of self. That's the pattern I'm personally seeing. We'll keep going. Back to Joseph and Kendra, because I haven't, I've been setting the stage here to explain what we're about to describe. So let me keep going. Back to Joseph and Kendra. Because trust me, that's all, comes full circle. We need to understand the context here. The Dugger family publicly announced Joe and Kendra's courtship on March 8th, 2017 with a video originally posted by the TLC

network. Their massive platform that millions watched. And so actually, I was, I was actually born here. Oh, that's right. Yeah, neat. Anyway, I guess kind of neat seeing my past, kind of seeing where I come from, where I started. And I was wondering if you wanted to go to the next step of courtship with me. Yes. I had something signify that. So I figured you put it on your right hand. Yes.

And your ring finger? But. I didn't hear you're asking. Yeah. So. Ciao. Means we can hugs. Yeah.

It's a new thing, right? Yeah. I can't believe it. So exciting. Yeah. I had no idea that I thought we were just going to the auction. Kind of we've done a couple times before. And so, yeah, I had no idea he was going to ask me to court him.

Your dad gave me the go ahead. Thank you, Daddy. It's all my fault. I know it's a lot. Whenever Kendra said yes, it was like such a big relief to me, just knowing that now I've actually. entered a new phase of life. Oh my goodness.

Oh, yeah. Those were so pretty. Thank you. Yeah. I thought it was really special the way he asked me to court him, just seeing the place that he was born and had grown up. I'd actually really been wanting to see that place, and he told me he was going to show me at some point. Oh, did we get the surprise or no? Yeah.

I'm shocked. As far as courting the term of Kendra courting me or me courting kinder, pretty much interchangeable. pretty much interchangeable recording each other. So, I mean, it's not like one person that's courting. It's like both of us. So it kind of goes both ways. And then just two months later, on May 27th, 2018, a public statement was put out on the Dugger family website announcing Joseph and Kendra's engagement. They got married at the beginning of September 2017. And from there, Kendra and Joseph built a life together and they had four children. Now, something that's been mentioned before, and again, this comes from reports and discussions, not official statements,

is that after everything came out about Joseph's older brother, Josh, Kendra became very protective of her kids and understandably so. Good for her. That is so good to hear. When it was revealed that Josh was a predator and later convicted for possessing CSAM, it seems like that had a ripple effect within the Dugger family. And from what's been said online, Kendra was especially cautious about who had access to her children. Again, good for her. Reportedly, she was much more comfortable allowing her own parents to babysit rather than relying on the Dugger side of the family. But if that's true, that alone already suggests there may have been this underlying tension. But that wasn't the only issue. Have you ever looked at your bank statement and thought,

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slash TCP. That's rocketmoney.com slash TCP. Rocketmoney.com slash TCP. Another situation that's been talked about quite a bit online involves a reported conflict between Jim Bob Dugger and Paul Caldwell, Pastor Paul Caldwell, Kendra's dad, about how Paul's church was handling COVID at the time of COVID. So now during that period, the Caldwell family was actually living in a home that was owned by Jim Bob Dugger, Joseph's dad. And according to these reports, that disagreement led to Jim Bob deciding to give that house to his son Jed and his wife, which meant the Caldwells had to move out. And here's where things get even more complicated or more interesting. Joseph and Kendra were in the process of building their own home, and they ended up

giving that home to Kendra's parents. So, okay, so you step back and look at the big picture here. It shows a relationship that's complicated at best. There's like some generosity there, right? Generosity, but there's also tension, definitely power dynamics, likely disagreements that we don't even fully know about yet. despite all of this, it's been said that Paul remained Joseph and Kendra's pastor, which again speaks to how intertwined these relationships are, family, authority, faith, all wrapped up into

one nice little gift with a big old bow, family, authority, and faith. Now, let's get into the part that's been circulating the most again. And I just, I'm going to emphasize again, this is where we have to tread very carefully. There are claims being discussed, a lot of claims being discussed, that during the trip to Panama City, Florida in 2020, or during a trip, we don't know how many trips it were, but there was evidence shows there was a trip in Panama City, Florida in 2020, and the public knows about that. That's why I'm bringing this up. That is evidence. That's in a timeline. Absolutely. And it's been confirmed by police now, right? There was a trip to Panama City, Florida in 2020. And Joseph and Kendra were reportedly vacationing with who?

The Caldwell family, Kentra's family. So there's your evidence that's out there. And this is also when Joseph allegedly inappropriately touched the nine-year-old victim. And according to the charging docks surrounding Joseph's arrest, the child only recently came forward and told her father about, about what allegedly happened. And from there, the father confronted Joseph Dugger. So that's the charging docks.

But this is where people have started connecting dots with the evidence that's been laid out. So based on timelines, photos, and he was reportedly present on at least one trip to Panama City, Florida in 2020. Some believe the child may have been someone within Kendra's own family. family as in her sibling. And if that is true, and I want to stress if, because we don't know who else was on that trip, we don't know what other families were there. Maybe there was another trip. So that's what I'm trying to just say, this is the evidence. These are the facts. And is like, so, okay. So and we don't know. We don't know everything. So if that would mean the father who confronted Joseph would have been his father-in-law, Paul Caldwell. And if you think about that scenario,

It puts him in an incredibly difficult position because on one hand, he's a father. The immediate obvious response is to go to law enforcement. You protect your child. You report it. And that's exactly what this victim's father did according to charging docs. That's what this father did for the victim, according to charging docs. But if this is who the web is speculating it is, this man isn't. just a father. Paul isn't just a father. He is also Joseph's father-in-law, and he's also

Joseph's pastor. Let that sink in. Joseph's pastor. And within their belief system and their religion, specifically the I-B-L-P teachings, there is a strong emphasis on authority, but on confession and accountability. And that includes being honest with spiritual, drummeral authority. So if Joseph did confess anything, that would place Pastor Paul in a situation where his roles completely collide. Pastor, authority, father to a victim, and father-in-law to the accused, not to mention grandfather as well. If this version of events is accurate, it would mean Paul made the decision to prioritize his child and involve law enforcement, which would have led to Joseph's arrest, his son-in-law's arrest, and also triggered the investigation that ultimately led to Kendra's charges. And that leads into another piece that people have been questioning. Why it was Jim Bob and Michelle who bailed Kendra out.

rather than her own parents, right? So if there is truth to this theory online, which has, you know, there's reason this theory exists. This is why we're talking about it. If there's truth to this theory, it could explain that. Because if Kendra's father was the one who reported the situation or was directly involved in the confrontation that led to an investigation, that could create a major divide, not just emotionally, but legally,

and morally. But again, I'll bring this back. Still speculation. There could have been other families on that trip. There could be details that haven't yet come out with the timeline that is out there. There could be entirely different explanations or more context for how everything unfolded. But based on what's currently been laid out with the evidence, these are the pieces people are putting together and I'm listening to what all of you are saying and sending me thank you. This is the version that, too many, seems to make the most sense in explaining the dynamics of what we're seeing right now. So at this point, though, let's go back to what we do know with more certainty.

What's being reported is that Kendra is not allowed to have contact with her parents, the Caldwells. Kendra's not allowed, right? Because of the nature of this case, there are reportedly no contact orders in place, although we haven't officially gotten the documents for that at this time. And those orders allegedly apply not just to Joseph, but to Kendra as well. So even if she wanted to go to her parents, even if she wanted to lean on them for support, she may not be allowed to right now. If it's true that her husband's victim is her own sister, and that puts her in a really complicated position. because at the same time, Joseph and Kendra's own children are also not with either side of the family.

They are reportedly not with the Duggers, and they are not with the Caldwells either. And the reason, though, is actually pretty standard in cases like this, when there's an active investigation involving potential harm to children, authorities want to make sure those kids are somewhere neutral, right? So there's no alienation of either side. They don't want them with anyone who could potentially influence what they say or how they say it or how they feel about the situation. In other words, police don't want a giant authority figure over them so that the children can actually trust themselves and share what's actually going on. They want to preserve the integrity of this investigation. So the kids being removed from both families, it's not necessarily a punishment. it is, though, about creating a controlled environment where the truth can actually be determined without outside pressure or authority.

It makes complete sense, although I'm sure that these families might see it as punishment. But bringing it back to the IBLP within the Institute of In Basic Life Principle system, women are taught very specific things about their roles in marriage. They're taught that they are to be submissive to their husbands, they are to obey. And that stepping outside of that structure or authority can have consequences, not just in their daily lives, but spiritually. As the Krispy Chicken sandwich from 7-Eleven, people always call me loud. And I'm like, yeah, I know. I'm crispy. Did you expect me to whisper? If you want quiet, go eat some soup and reflect. Like, I know I'm a handful. I'm bold, I'm juicy.

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deep. It affects how you see the world, how you make decisions and what you believe your options are. And that doesn't excuse anything that may have happened, but it does help explain how someone could end up in a situation like this and feel trapped. Because from the outside, it might seem obvious what the right move is. But from the inside, it's not always that simple. At the same time, though, there are legal realities that cannot be ignored. No matter what belief system you come from, there are laws in place to protect children. And those laws apply to everyone despite your religion. And here's where another piece comes in.

Joseph and Kendra entered into what's called a covenant marriage and a covenant marriage. They're different than the standard marriage, different within their belief system. It's that they have stricter requirements for divorce. You can't just separate. You have to meet a specific crisis. But one of those bits of criteria is if your spouse commits a felony. So if Joseph is convicted of these charges, it does give Kendra an out. She can file for divorce under the terms of their covenant marriage.

So despite the restrictions, despite the belief system, and I don't know how deeply Kendra is in this belief system right now. We don't know that either. But despite everything else, there is a way she could leave. The question is whether she will. As far as Joseph's older brother, Josh Dugger's wife, so Kendra's sister and La Anna, she's still wearing a wedding ring in a recent dog breeding video that she posted earlier this year, recently actually. Last month, take a look. Hey there, we are just waiting for a bed appointment, and I thought I would introduce you to some of our guys.

This is my favorite Whitaker, and he's a little bit darker. And then we have Harrington. And then we have Beaumont over here. Hi, buddy. Are you going to chew up the wallet? And there, our male puppies are getting close to 10 pounds. They're just sweet little guys. And one thing about the English creams is they tend to be a much milder breed.

and so they definitely enjoy their snuggle time. Kendra's first hearing was originally set to take place on Monday at the Elm Springs District Court, but when members of the media arrived, they were told it had been moved to the Washington County Courthouse. Yeah. And then after making their way there, they were redirected again. And this time officers informed them that the hearing was actually being held at the Washington County Detention Center and would be conducted over Zoom. So as of now, there haven't been any updates on what actually happened during the hearing.

Oh, we were hoping to have that for you today, but hopefully next episode. We also got a phone call, a jail phone call. We hear that that Joseph made from jail. This call was released by the local authorities to Five News in Arkansas. Take a listen to this. Hi there. This is Joe Dayer here. Yeah.

Hey, I'm over here at the Washington County. Yeah. Kind of you don't know if my dad mentioned it to you or not. Yeah. You know anything I do? Yeah, the only issue. Well, you're there. You're in custody pending the issue of a governor's warrant by state of Florida.

So it seems like the phone call was with an attorney of some sort, which is interesting, that it was released, right? because attorney-client privilege, but maybe it is also why only a portion of it was released. We are also seeing statements from family evolve. Family statements are evolving as more information comes down in real time. The most vocal family member has been cousin Amy, who like I've mentioned before, is sort of a whistleblower for the family. Here's her latest statement.

Take a listen. I think that was a plot twist that no one saw coming. when I gave that statement, you know, on my social media and to the press and all of that, that was just the information that I was given at the time and thought to be true. And now that that information has changed and there's more that is coming out and there's a lot of question marks right now. I'm just going to steer that statement toward the kids because that's what matters right now is the kid's safety, the victim and her family and the four children that were in the home. That is where my heart lies and that's just where I'm going to, I'm just going to lay there.

I had no idea. Like I said, I'm learning just like everyone else and looking through any kind of article that I can find trying to get answers because obviously this is heartbroken. This is, this is heartbreaking. This is really, really hard on everybody. And it's like I said, it's not about just the people that are inside this bubble and, you know, that believe this certain system. But it's people who loved them. And I love Joe.

I loved Kendra, you know. And there's so many people that are just wanting this to not be so serious. But the fact that, you know, child protective services has taken the kids, that right there alone, that sentence alone, shows the severity of the situation, and that's just where my heart lies. She should have been safe, right? She should have been safe. She should have been loved. She was on vacation.

My heart cannot wrap around that. And the person that I thought I knew apparently is not the person that he is today. And I will not look past what I will hold him accountable. And I want justice to be served to the fullest. So Amy actually has received both praise and criticism for speaking out, some things. think she's just in it for attention. Others believe she is bringing much needed sunlight to family secrets. In Amy's first statement, she mentioned her book, which brought some criticism, understandably, since then, though, Amy has released a series of new Instagram stories

defending the mention of her book. And I'll just read it here. Quote, just a few facts. I haven't seen or heard from Joe in about five years, but that doesn't mean I didn't to love him and want the best for him. I don't think people understand how much time I spent with them and countless hours filming. I grew up over there. I didn't know Kendra extremely well, but I thought they made an adorable couple. I went to a ski resort once with them and shopped a little with Kendra, very sweet-natured and just loved her. You have to say allegedly until he's been convicted, I'm protecting myself legally. I have no idea where the kids are. I just hope and pray they are being well taken care of and someone is holding them tight and that they are safe.

Sadly, I've never met them. They do not know me. So I'd be a stranger to them. And right now, they probably need someone they actually know. The only reason why my book, Holy Disruptor, was mentioned is because it talks about generational trauma and the Dugger family tree. This is a repeated pattern. I want my book to help people see the toxic patterns in their own family.

I'm always going to use my page to help people see through narcissistic, abusive cycles that are used in a closed family system. I have texted Kendra, no response back. That was before I knew anything of her being arrested. People think I run to the media the moment something bad happens. I've been called so many names. I do interviews not for fame or popularity, but for the purpose of exposing the darkness of what the IBLP has become. women and children are not protected and I can't stand when people who have terrible character hide behind the cross. I've blocked over 600 people since all of this has come out. I will continue

to do that to anyone who leaves a nasty comment. Someone said I should just turn off the comments, but I don't want to do that. I want people to leave their support, their thoughts, and ask questions. But calling me terrible names for no reason or cussing out other people you don't know or spreading salacious rumors and just being horrible on my page will get you blocked. It's all a dysfunctional, broken mess, and it's been the heaviest week, praying for the whole truth that come to light. I haven't been to the big house in years. A lot has happened that, again, I've written about, but that doesn't mean I don't love my cousins. I'll always want the best for them. The truth has always been hidden in my family, and it just makes me feel sick, that there's more

and will probably be even more, end quote. And hey, I love that statement. Thank you for speaking out. And I'll admit, when it comes to the family system, parts of Amy's book, they're enlightening. In her book, she writes, let me read this one to you. Quote, as I look back, I recall understanding the unspoken, non-negotiable rule that seemed to hang in the air like a heavy fog, never be alone with grandpa. It was as clear as day. Grandpa couldn't be trusted. I knew to obey that rule innately understanding

that breaking the rule would have been very bad consequences. When my grandparents came to live with my mom and me because my dad's violent threats became too scary for my mom to handle on her own, I was given clear rules. Grandpa Dugger could never take me to school, never join me in the backyard for a game of catch, and absolutely never be allowed to come into my room. My grandma checked every single night to make sure I had locked my bedroom door from the outside before going to bed. I was told, if you hear grandpa in the middle of the night, do not hang out with him, she said. I couldn't sit with him on the couch and watch a movie. I couldn't be alone with him in a car and I couldn't practice my cheerleading routines in the living room or wear a bathing suit to sunbathe outside.

I couldn't even play Barbies in front of him because my grandma didn't want me to risk show. showing him their naked bodies. Above all, I could not, under any circumstance, step foot into his bedroom or take a bath or shower unless my grandma was home. I wasn't allowed to have friends hang out, and sleepovers were strictly off limits. End quote. Wow. So honestly, if you compare those rules to what Jim Bob and Michelle shared on a Fox special after it came out, Josh had busted his sisters, Honestly, I think it's clear this family dynamic has been unhealthy and brewing for a long time.

There is a pattern just as just as she said. And some of those same rules put in place when Amy was growing up were put in place by Jim Bob and Michelle. Take a listen. There were a lot of things that changed in our understanding as parents with, you know, this first child, first son, you know, to come to this place. his life. We're like, there's things that we've learned even since then that I think, you know what, we don't let boys babysit. We don't let, you know, they don't play hide and seek together, two don't go off and hide. I mean, there's just a lot of things that we've put in place. And we said, you know, you're not alone in a room with someone else, always be out visible.

And, you know, little ones don't sit on big boys' laps or people that you don't know, or even family members, you know, unless it's your daddy, you know. And so we just, there's boundaries that we've learned. At my bank, I was literally getting pennies using wealth fronts. Chiching, there's this much that I'm getting an interest and I didn't have to do anything. Clients like Angela earn up to 4.2% APY on their cash with the Wealthfront cash account. Get started at Wealthfront.com. Client was paid $1,000 for their testimonial creating a conflict of interest.

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daughter's grave on the two-year anniversary of her pregnancy loss. faithful still by King's porch music has meant a lot to me through so much. God is faithful in spite of the circumstances and people who let us down, end quote. It's heartbreaking to know of her loss. It's unclear though if that quote is referencing the current situation with Joseph, right? She also mentioned people who let us down. However, many do believe it is. And while we heard a statement from Josh once through his attorney about essentially being

wrongly blamed for crime. We have not heard a word from Josh's wife, Anna Dugger. I showed you that video of her with the dogs she's breeding, where her wedding ring is still very visible. That video is from a TikTok page she runs for her breeding company in which her children are heavily featured on, often holding or playing with the dogs. Anna and her children did name their last batch of puppies I noticed, get this, after the cast of Disney's Frozen, which I will say that's sweet. And honestly, though, I'll also say this, a little surprising, given how strict the Duggers have openly been about the kinds of media they allow in their home.

Most of you know Frozen, it's one of Disney's biggest modern films centered around two sisters, Elsa and Anna, and a story that really leads into independence, self-acceptance. right? The power of strong female relationships. It's not your typical princess needs saving narrative. It's about girls saving themselves and each other. So if you really think about it, to see a family that historically promoted very traditional gender roles and authority embracing something like frozen and breaking away in naming puppies, breaking away from names beginning with the same letter, even in a small way like naming puppies. feels a little unexpected and maybe even a sign of how much is changed or at least softened over time. But then again, there is that wedding ring. I think the biggest and most notable silence through it all, though, is Jim Bob and Michelle Dugger, the patriarch and matriarch of this family. When Josh was arrested back in 2021, they put out a statement that day very quickly.

This is what they said back in 2021. Quote, we appreciate your continued prayers for our family at this time. The accusations brought against Joshua today are very serious. It is our prayer that the truth, no matter what it is, will come to light and that this will all be resolved in a timely manner. We love Josh and Anna and continue to pray for their family, end quote. Yet this time, now we're in 2026, it's been nearly a week now since. since Joseph's arrest, and we haven't seen any sort of public statement from either of them. Things seem eerily quiet on that front.

At the beginning of the show, I mentioned that there are people close to the Dugger family pushing back on Kendra's charges. They're saying they aren't related to Joseph's charges. A part of me has wondered if the new source, though, is Jim Bob and Michelle themselves, talking with a journalist privately. I don't know. Maybe it's a publicist. maybe it's a neighbor who knows not that they would want to defend kendra over their son but more so

in a way of saying things are not what it looks like and don't worry about the kids the kids will stay in the dougar family whoever again that's simply my speculation on my part just kind of understanding how media sometimes works the one fact i can say for certain is that there has been zero public statement or comment on the recent arrest from Jim Bob or Michelle Dugger. And it has me extremely curious as to why or wondering if perhaps they're speaking through a publicist or another family member to sort of help get a narrative going. There are still hearings to come. Joseph and Kendra each face up to eight years behind bars and thousands in fines

if convicted on the Arkansas charges they are facing. Joseph, though, of course, faces even more in the state of Florida. There are still details that have not been released, and there are still a lot of unanswered questions that I want to explore and then discuss with Dr. John Matthias, a criminal psychologist, my co-host, and also my husband. What will we learn about the home environment that Joseph and Kendra's children have been living in? what will happen to their children long term will they be back with their mother soon again i too like cousin amy hope that they are being held and taken care of and loved right now what about their

grandparents will they see their grandparents soon well kendra's separate charges remain will kendra separate from joseph and how much of this extends beyond just this one household or one generation what have been innocent mistakes in the past and what is a pattern, a pattern of neglect and danger. If some of these practices are as normalized as people are suggesting they are presenting and representing their religious beliefs and worldview, this could have a ripple effect that goes well beyond just Joseph and Kendra. It's about a system, a family system, a family structure, and a set of beliefs that may have allowed these red flags and patterns to go unchecked for too long, far too long. So as more information comes out, hidden true crime is going to keep walking through it.

We want to understand this. We're going to walk through it piece by piece with all of you. Hit subscribe and hit notifications. And thank you for supporting our work here at Hidden True Crime. It means so much. And may justice be served. Most people don't realize how much their personal information is being bought and sold every day. Data brokers are making billions, pulling details about you from public records and the Internet, and then packaging and selling it, usually without your consent. That's how your information lands in the hands of scammers, spammers, even stalkers. It's why you get endless robocalls and why ads seem to follow you everywhere.

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