Hidden True Crime - EXCLUSIVE: "He's a Buffoon". - Samuel Bateman Juror Doesn't Hold Back | False Prophet Trial

Episode Date: July 1, 2026

What was it really like to sit just feet away from Samuel Bateman throughout his trial? In this exclusive interview, we speak with a juror who shares what the jury saw, what stood out during testimony, and how they weighed the evidence before reaching a verdict. From Bateman representing himself in court to the emotional testimony from witnesses and victims, we go behind the scenes of one of the most wild trials in recent memory. Sponsor: Ethos Life Insurance: Protect your family with life insurance through Ethos—get up to $3 million in coverage in as little as 10 minutes at https://ethos.com/hidden. About Hidden True Crime What started as a simple conversation at their dinner table became a captivating podcast. Join the dynamic duo of Dr. John Matthias, a criminal psychologist, and Lauren Matthias, an investigative journalist, as they delve into the psychological facets of unthinkable crimes every week. Their unique perspectives and in-depth analysis offer a fresh take on true crime storytelling. Thank you for your support through sponsorships, subscribing, listening, and becoming a Patreon member at⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Patreon.com/HiddenTrueCrime⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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First off, did you know anything about Sam Bateman before you were called to be on the jury? Not a clue. Not a clue. Do you know anything about him now since he? you've been released? Yeah. Okay. Yep.

You Google? I've watched some of your stuff. I watch, you know, other things. And I haven't watched the Netflix thing. We're going to meet up with some friends. We're going to do a watch party, my girlfriend and I. So. Okay.

Okay. Did your, did your girlfriend know about him at all? Or did she just start doing that? No. Neither one of us knew. Okay. Yeah. My friends, my friends knew because my friend

works at the jail and flagstaff. So he had kind of a clue of, you know, they knew with the cases that were being heard. And they're like, but we didn't talk about it. Yeah. Yeah. Well, okay, so let me just ask you this then. And then I want to get into like what you've learned.

First off, well, I want to tell you this to a lot of the survivors. And I saw one of them, thank you, who said as you walked out, thank you so much. I was his, I'm not going to give her exact identity away, but she said her, his 20-something wife. Oh, wow. Yeah. And I know that a lot of survivors and victims of Sam Bateman were grateful for this really fast jury and the quick verdict. But so when you're going in there, you don't know who he is.

This is where I, my mind was wondering, because I know everything about Sam Bateman. I'm sitting in there, you know, covering this trial. while wondering what you're thinking as these witnesses come in testifying, right? Because you're seeing one thing on the screen and then the witnesses are coming in. Can you take me there? Like what are you thinking as you're seeing these little girls and then coming in to testify years later? It was kind of curious to me that there was just women, you know, around this man. And then knowing, you know, knowing the area of Colorado City,

having driven through it a few times going, you know, wherever I was going to go up to Utah or whatever to go and recreate. Knowing the history of the area. I was like, I had my suspicions, but I wasn't really, you know, I was more focused on the testimony and what they had brought forward as far as evidence. and really, you know, just in the evidence alone, and the prosecution did such a good job of compartmentalizing what we got to see in here.

They did. Right. That's why I think I'm so curious to speak to you and to a juror because they really did compartmentalize it. They did not go into anything else he had done or his horrific additional. crimes. No. No, they were really good about it.

And they really made sure that that didn't come into play. Because I, so in, you know, when we were in for jury selection, I, you know, I've had some, I had some childhood stuff with, you know, sexual molestation stuff from a family member. And, uh, I brought it to the, to the judge and to the council. It's like, this is, you know, it's an issue for me. I don't know if I can be impartial. And they said, no, this is about what this is about, you know.

This is about putting children in danger and this thing like, I can be impartial, you know. That's interesting. Right. So, in other words, and you're right, the crimes were not, the crimes of a child abuse were not, as you point out, specified on on sex abuse they were it was right with putting children in danger in a in a trailer which could have uh led to death and also just right difficulty um yeah um yeah that's that is interesting though for what you have heard since were you suspecting then during these three days that there was more too that as you said he's surrounded by women yeah yeah he saw no man

there was no men in this party and I'm like this is weird you know it's just all women and young girls that was just it was peculiar to me you know but I'm just I'm usually if I'm hanging out with people it's gonna be with a mix you know co-ed group of people right right and did you know one thing I wondered too did you guys notice that he was a Did you think at first that maybe he was the father of the girls? Or? I thought that, but the names were different. I was like, this is really weird as a, you know, if he's the, the caretaker of these people,

you know, if he's their, you know, father figure, then why are they all, are they all adopted? What is this? You know, so I had no clue. I really had no clue. And, you know, I suspected a little bit knowing, you know, So, yeah, Colorado City is FLDS. I knew that. So I knew there was some connection there.

So what did you think of the crimes then? You're right. They did compartmentalize it. They did specify that this was about putting three young girls into a trailer for transport. What did you think about the evidence they presented and this crime? It's fucking insane. Like, why would you put children? the, you know, the flatbed with the side by side, that was insane.

And then being in a box trailer, insane. Never, ever, would I do that? And, I mean, we didn't talk about where the destination of that vehicle was going. You know, it was like, they're going to Phoenix or Tucson. I mean, I don't even know. That was never really clarified because it seemed like that was, a big unknown with that. Right.

Nobody knew. Yeah. But, you know, they're going down to higher temperatures and they're going to be in the back of this box trailer. It was like, and I don't care if the kid said, we want to do this. You know, it was my kid. I'd be like, no.

Right. And then there was no. Right. And then there was no room in the car either, right? Like, there was also, I mean, no matter how they kind of, spun this as in the younger girl saying, well, we asked, I mean, well, where else?

Yeah. And also for me, sitting there, because actually I was, even though I have an understanding of the crimes he's been convicted of already in charge and convicted with, I didn't know as many details about this specific

incident. I just knew, I had seen the body cam footage previously. But to hear the girl especially the younger girl say they wanted to go in the trailer I thought was also really interesting to me too because I actually thought

huh like is he that manipulative that like these girls almost feel like it's their choice right even though everybody is at the same time saying he's in charge I thought that was interesting too it was an interesting dichotomy I so I don't know

I was trying to wrap my head around that as well but from my standpoint even if it was the kids that wanted to do it. And why was there a toilet back there? There was a lot of things that didn't make sense to me. And he didn't know where, you know, what was back in the trailer? He had no clue of what was in the trailer and how things were loaded. I don't believe that either.

As somebody who would be pulling a trailer in that situation, I would check my load and make sure everything was fastened. um know people in there or not you know i wouldn't haul people to begin with but in that situation i would know what's in the trailer and how it was set up and that was just none of that made sense to me none of it none of it really

just it was like i could have prosecuted this case man you know what i mean that's the way i felt about it's like all the evidence was just so strong wrong. It was ridiculous. Yeah, and it was actually worse than I even thought, learning the additional details that I learned, like, right, as everything flying around, including shovels, you know, nothing just... It's just absurd. It's just absurd. Like, what grown human being does that? I mean, I just, and he's a, I mean, he's an utter buffoon, really. Yes. Yeah, let's talk about that representing himself.

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This is bullshit. You saw that. That's what I took from it. Just this, I would never harm anyone. I mean, honestly, sitting from the gallery, I had to try so hard not to show too much expression so that you didn't see it. But I could have believed it when he started his opening statement saying, I would never harm anyone and I'm a good father. Yeah, so you saw through this. Yeah.

Okay. Yeah. I mean, I've seen these people before in my life. So there's a certain kind of, I guess it's a narcissistic thing. I don't know what it is, but you can see through that whole act. And he was playing it up for us, you know. Yeah. Yeah, like if you know, you know.

Yeah. He was playing it up. I know what did you think about him representing himself? I thought it was ridiculous. Like, I felt sorry for the public defender that had to be there to try to keep him on track. That poor bastard. I was watching him the whole time. I was just, I was like, oh, my God, this guy is having a bad day.

Like asking the questions, like when he decided to testify, which I'll be honest. Like, I live for someone like Sam Bateman to testify. I'll be honest. I'm like, let's do this. His questions that he had written for himself. Any thoughts on those? Oh, my God.

That was like, and the guy had to read this stuff off. That was just like, wow. And some of it was just like, really? And the stuff about profit and all this other. And then he's talking about telepathy and shit. I'm just like, really, man? And he looks over at us and I'm like, I know you've had it too. And I'm like, no.

Fuck am I watching here? You know, this guy's ridiculous. He must have lived in a bubble for a long. time because he doesn't know what it's like out here, like how we are. It was ridiculous. I agree with that, what you just said, that sort of idea that he could even look at the jury and say, you know, yeah, right. Telepathic experiences like, you know, like if you know, you know, right? And you're like, no, I agree that it's almost like he's so sheltered that he can't understand, or it's narcissism, as you point out, that he can't understand.

that the rest of you are looking at him going no clue buddy no clue um yeah yeah interesting i mean again this is only a three-day trial so i'm sure that the other jurors and you you know weren't able to like talk too much but when you went back there to deliberate yeah we were we were i think i was probably the most i was the one that was like ready to pop you know at that point because we started we picked a foreman and um He started going around the room and, you know, talking to the ladies and the other gentleman. And it was like, everybody was like already on track with guilty. I'd already, you know.

And the first thing I said was, I got to say one thing. And that's what the fuck? Like, really? And they were going to show us like, they had the video. The IT guy brought the video. in and was going to show the, you know, the evidentiary video and all that. And I'm like, do we really need to watch this video? And everybody in the room just smiled. Like, you know, like we don't need to watch this video. We already know. Right. Pretty clear cut. It was clear

cut. I mean, there's no, there was no question about it. Yeah, he spent a lot of time arguing the drive, the maps, the toilet, you know, and ultimately, I thought the same thing, I'm like, ultimately this is about putting three girls in a dangerous situation, right? Did that any of that matter to you? Did any of his arguments or those sort of points matter? There were a lot of juror questions

throughout the whole thing. My question was, is why did you take the trailer down to an event where you're going to go see this motivational speaker? You know, it's like, that's insane. I mean, that trailer wasn't, it didn't, it wasn't necessary.

So what was it there for? Yeah. Was it there for, you know, we're going to stop along the way and, you know, make a sandwich and we need that generator to make a sandwich on the side of the road? Bullshit. It's just nonsense. Right. Completely nonsensical. It was like, I don't know.

It was, I couldn't believe I was watching. it in real life it was like a cartoon it was just so silly and his his defense was awful his defense was awful I know I know what did you think of his defense in general I mean you know he should have hired a lawyer that's all I mean he he did it was awful it was just terrible like part of the time you couldn't hear what he was saying because he was trying to be so soft-spoken and, you know, it was just, it was annoying, really, to watch him in action. And he really wasn't making any good argument. There was no argument that he was making that really, you know, applied to any of the

substance of what was going on and what had happened. There was no way to argue out of that. And you know what, too? I don't know if you know this, but he was offered a really good plea deal for this so that they didn't have to take it to trial, that he would get maybe like six years and it would go at the same time as his federal conviction, his federal convictions 50 years plus a life. So his federal convictions 50 years plus a lifetime supervision. And they're like, look, the deal, six years, it'll serve at the same time. In other words, wouldn't add any more time. And he was like, nope, no, no, hold my beer. I am going to represent myself. I'm going to roll the dice on this one.

Yeah. Oh, man. That's just incredible. Yeah. Which was heartbreaking, though, I'll say this, because it did force those who he did abuse, who have tried to move on in their lives, to have to come in, some of them still minors, and face him, you know? Yeah.

Which I think was very traumatic for them, I'm going to be honest. I knew that the one witness, I could tell she was really. damaged. And it was really a give kudos to the prosecution for like, yeah, she's off and she doesn't have to come back. You know what I mean? That was like the other, the other ones, they seem like they're, you know, I know they were traumatized, but they're really holding it together. And I could tell they were really getting, they're getting their empowerment, you know. I think they got some empowerment from doing this. and it was great.

I think so too. And you know what I think really did empower the three victims that were in the back of the trailer, that when the verdict was presented, he had three counts of child abuse and they named each of their names. In other words, he had been convicted of abusing each one of them.

Like each, he is found guilty of abusing D, of abusing S, you know, of abusing all of these, girled and and I think that was really empowering because his federal case just you know he did take a plea deal in his federal and so it's sort of all just like kind of mushed together and the individual victims were never directly named and I think that actually was something to say he has now been convicted of abusing G and D and D and just and S, G D and S and I think that was a good moment that he'll always have that conviction with their names attached. Yeah.

So. Yeah. I mean, they did a great job. They did. What did you think when they came in in clothes that were not the traditional FLDS dress? You know, there's this like almost like mugshot, a full mugshot of them, you know, like outside of a trailer,

you know, it's the police evidence photos. And then they walk in looking very different. Was that something that was noted by the jury? Yeah. I noticed right away that all these. girls who live in a different life, you know. And I, you know, I don't know the background on that. Sure.

And no judgment. But yeah, it was cool. It was good to see them. It felt like another sense of empowerment for them, you know, that they could dress in a way that they felt, you know, it was like a new, wearing a new skin or something. Yeah. Yeah.

sort of like their authentic self walking in and what they choose to wear yeah yeah um the thing that really was interesting to me was when they put the uh the witness up on screen that looks like a hostage video to me it was like i could just see like she was like there was a lot of tab dancing going on up there. Like she was trying. With his witness. Yeah. Sam's witness.

His defense witness. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It was weird to watch. Like a hospital video. It was so strange. She was like, you could just see the body language, the gulping, the, you know,

just the whole thing. I was just like she looks like she looks like she's a hospice. Right. Like she, I agree. I thought she looked very nervous to say the wrong thing. And I kept watching Sam, and Sam seemed kind of angry when she wasn't responding the way he wanted her to respond. So I thought the same thing. She looked nervous.

He looked mad. She was like, what do I do? Yeah, she was like a deer in headlights. You know, something interesting about her. Yeah. She did serve time. She took a pedial. And she was, she was then, she served her time and she went back.

She went back. So, yeah. Yeah, you know, I think people get conditioned to a certain, you know, it's like, it's like Patty Hurst, you know, like it's kind of a, you know, it's kind of that kind of thing where you just kind of fall in with a certain life and start to break out of it. Yeah. There were some supporters for the victims in the courtroom also in the traditional FLDS dress, but they were there supporting the victims. Was that noted? I mean, what did anyone think of? Yeah, I noticed, you know, some of the other jurists had said something about it.

I was like, yeah, that's interesting, you know. But knowing a little more now, because I've done a little bit of a deeper dive on it, it's like, it seems like there's a sense in that community that they really want to get beyond this. Yes, yeah. Yeah, there's a lot of people in that community that loathe what he did and saw it happen. Right. In other words, and I want to hear what you've learned, but he never declared himself necessarily the prophet over the FLDS religion like Warren Jeff did, a well-known. Right. He kind of dubbed himself a Samuite and sort of started this.

His offshoot. Yeah, he started sort of an offshoot within this community. So recruiting those that were FLDS to. follow him. So it is kind of a more unique, interesting. It's like a, it's an, it really is this unique cult within the FLDS community, the Samuilites. The sect of a sect. Mm-hmm. Yeah. So you see you, so you, so you, you guys come back in 25 minutes, guilty verdict, each, each count against each individual girl. That was a moment. I'll just say profound when he, They said you have been convicted, you know, or you are guilty of abusing D. You are guilty of abusing G.

You are guilty of abusing S. When did you go and start looking and learning? What have you learned about Sam Bateman? Well, I was, well, when I was able to talk to my friends about it, they're like, we're going to watch the, we're going to watch the Netflix series on it. And I'm like, there's a Netflix thing on this? Like, what? What is this?

So I went on the deeper dive and it was like, oh my God, this guy is fucking horrific. Wow. And how many young women and just like I was kind of blown away. Because like I said before, the prosecution really, you know, created a container. They did. It's such a good job. like in the judge i mean the judge was there with it you know he's great professional they were all so good you know um i mean even his defense counsel with like you know i mean i could see

everybody was doing their job the way they were supposed to do it in this case and it was like that i mean i can't commend them enough for what they did yeah i agree I felt funny because I afterward, I'm like, how did I not know all this? You know, but I'm so focused on it. I'm a musician. I'm focused on music and stuff like that. I have no, you know, I'm not usually paying attention to a lot of this stuff. So what do you play?

Can I ask? I'm a guitar player, singer, songwriter. Yeah. Awesome. I come from a big, I come from a big guitar playing family. Bluegrass is the genre. Oh, sweet. Yeah.

Love it. Very cool. The only telepathy I do is on stage with other musicians and, you know, there's a certain telepathy that goes on there. Right, a vibe. You're feeling one another. You're getting, yeah, they know and you know and you're in the zone. Right. There you go.

That's your telepathic experience. Yeah. Yeah. I'm not picking up on any, you know, what was he said about the guy that was the guy that goes out and helps people on the side of the road? He said he felt like there was some kind of dark energy or something. Yeah, evil spirit. He got up an evil spirit. What was that moment? Evil spirit. That was like, what the fuck is he talking about? Like, really, man? Yeah, I'm afraid. Just not like unaware. I think you're right. A lack of awareness to how what he is saying is going to be taken by people that have not lived his parallel life, I think is just a good way to kind of explain it. Right? Just.

Yeah. I think they're, I think he's been locked into a bubble. for a long time. I mean, I don't know how else to say it, you know. Yeah, there was a woman in there wearing bright pink every day. You probably noticed her in the gallery. Yeah, yeah. Her name is Dr. Christine. You'll get to know her better when you watch the Netflix documentary. She's a major, major part of that documentary. And it was her husband. Her husband's a musician too, Tolga. So, yeah. And he did a lot of the

capturing of what was going on. They did not expect to be part of this and be informants for the FBI. But that's what they did. Sam Bateman really dislikes the color pink because it's so feminine.

And he did not want his child brides, because that's what they were to wear pink. And they had a pink shirt. of all that pink. What did you say? I wish I had a pink shirt to wear on the jury. Well, I know. That's why I was like wishing so bad. I'm like, man, I wish, I wish some of

these juror members would show up in pink unknowingly, you know. Yeah. But there was, there was a gentleman there for the verdict in a pink shirt. He had no idea, but, you know, he was wearing a bright pink shirt. So. Nice. So what did you learn? So you Google, I want to go back though. So you Google. And, you know, it is interesting that you mentioned that you're a survivor yourself of of child sex abuse and you're right they kept it in a container they did not

mention that you know which was so kind of it was difficult for a lot of us sitting there that knew like thinking you and what you did even beyond this trailer but like thank goodness that even the trailer wasn't was something that they're saying this is not okay you know beyond the pay yeah it's ridiculous is beyond the pale yeah so what did you think then when you started going down the, I guess you could say the sand Bateman rabbit hole right after the verdict and what you discovered, what did you discover right away? So I discovered the lady in pink, you know, I discovered some of her story and it was like, damn, you know, amazing, amazing human being, really.

Yeah. I thought this woman is, she's, she's incredible, you know, and what she did, you know, how she, she went and you know they're living in California living the life and and they moved to you know southern Utah northern Arizona I mean it's like after the flood situation there which was

it's kind of heartbreaking to watch those videos yeah people you know and and what had happened it was like that was that's a pretty heartbreaking thing you know some people lost their lives and for what what she did was pretty heroic in my opinion just that alone yeah just that alone just her going there was was a heroic move i agree and that's what she wanted to do she wanted to move there and her husband tolga moved there and they just wanted to help them and it has made a big difference

these um like i said there are many f lDS members very very angry at sam baitman wanting also justice for these young girls so right And it, you know, with Warren Jeffs and the Sam Bateman character and all these people, they just, I'm sure their community probably feels like that's all that ever gets heard about this. Yeah. And, you know, if I was part of that community, I'd be pretty pissed if that's all people knew about the community. Yeah. Yeah. I wouldn't think it was good at all. that you know this is what this is what the outside this is what the other people think of this community

based on what they're seeing with these individuals right you know these culpreditors yeah yeah yeah yeah he did um go ahead he hinted at the the the david caresh thing too a little bit at the trial did you catch that yes tell me yeah that was that was kind of like that was crazy yeah what were you Tell us what he said and what your thoughts were. Yes. He just talked about the Waco, Texas thing. And I knew what, you know, I saw all that, you know, back in the day. Start talking about raids.

You know, he started talking about raids, raids. And, you know, it was like, wow. So I don't know. It's like, that's not a good defense, man. You're not making the best defense for yourself right now. Yeah. No, I know. Yeah, what did you think about, yes, in his defense?

So the questions he asked, yes, and a lot of objections, but the question was already out there, right? He asked about the profit thing. I was like, what is, what's the profit business? You know, it's like, you know, and how was he going to answer that question? That's, I mean, the prosecutor was really good at just buttoning that shit up. I mean, he really closed it down. And it's hard when you're a witness or a juror to sit there and you know, they say,

all right, strike that. Don't, you didn't hear that. I heard it, but you know. Yeah. Or you, it's too late. You heard it. Yeah. I mean, he was with his questions.

That's what I thought too, is the questions told on him. You know what I mean? Yeah. I was like, these are not, you shouldn't be having someone ask you these questions because if they're objected, like that's all they need to know. Like they heard the question. Like your questions are telling on you. One of the women in the jury said that she felt like he was trying,

he knew it was going to be objected and he was just trying to sneak stuff in. It was like, yeah, what is that doing? You know, you think you're going to change hearts and minds in that jury room? Yeah. You know, you're not. Yeah. I spoke to another juror that came out and they said they felt that Sam Bateman, essentially told on himself in the opening statements like admitted his guild in the opening

statements i don't know how you felt about that but that was from one juror that came out after you you know i was trying to be you know objective but you know honestly right from the get i mean just this just the situation alone was like hauling people in trailers or on flatbed trailers. On a, on a, you know, a side by side on a flatbed trailer, like even if it was fastened down correctly, like it wasn't. That's just insane. Like, who thinks that's okay?

And you're driving on a highway. And it just seems like he was a stupid man. Not a smart. man at all. Just smart enough to get control of people, I guess, but not very smart. Just not a lot of common sense there. Yeah. What did you think of it when he was saying how much he loved police and he was thinking police each time and then there's being paranoid of police? It's bullshit. It was like it was all, it was all performing for us. you know he was trying to you know he's kissing the ass of the law enforcement that's what i saw

was just very sucking up to the law enforcement it was bullshit i saw right through it it was just you know i didn't believe it you know when you see the video of him getting pulled over you can tell that he was he had he didn't want to meet up with law enforcement that day you know right both instances. When they had the video out, I'm just like, oh, yeah, this guy knows he's in trouble. He knows he's doing shit wrong. He knows he's not doing good things here.

Right. And if you love law enforcement so much because they keep us safe, yet you're worried about them pulling you over. Yeah. If I do it together, you know. Doesn't add up. Yeah. Right.

It doesn't add up. Doesn't add up. Like, pick one of the other. It was just, it was nonsense. It didn't help his case at all. None of it. No. What about when he was trying to say that he didn't know they were in the trailer?

Once again, you know what's in your trailer before you leave. Before you get behind the wheel of your vehicle and you're pulling a trailer, you make sure everything's secure, you open that thing up and you look inside. Oh, I got people in here. You guys got to come out. You go ride in the other car. Like, what? No, he knew what was in that trailer.

He knew who was in that trailer. That was just ridiculous. And he was trying to slide out of it a little bit when he saw the one girl get out and go over to the other vehicle. But I wasn't buying that either. He knew they were back there. Yeah. And, you know, I know he would use that bathroom, too. Right.

Right. Yeah, exactly. She don't protest too much. Just the fact, in my opinion, that he was trying so hard to get you guys to make sure you knew he did not made me think. Yeah, did. Like, come on. Yeah. Come on, dude.

And one last three, I'm glad you not used the rest of them. I just didn't want to use trash I just not what I do I don't want to use the restroom where they can smell that trash and if you were the whole inside of the trailer He was just so uncredible

There was no credibility in his whole case Right I know the bathroom thing was fascinating to me too I was like really we're going to die on this hill I mean this is this is where you want to land I'm like, okay. You know, there was another, I had another question for you and I just went blank. But yeah, it was, it was interesting to say the least.

Any other conversations with other jurors that what they were thinking in the deliberation room? I don't want you to speak necessarily for everyone else, but just in general. No, I think everybody was on the same page, really. You know, we were definitely all on the same. page. Everybody felt like the evidence itself was enough, you know. I mean, honestly, that could have been abbreviated down a day, you know, at least, in my opinion.

But I know that they have to do what they have to do when they're, you know, trying a case like that. Right. And he has to have his defense and he has to, yeah, exactly. Yes, that was day in court. So, no, I think everybody, when it was time for us to be able to talk to each other about it, everybody was on the same page, without a doubt. There was no, nobody was questioning it, you know.

I remember what I wanted to ask you. Thoughts when you're watching this body camera footage, particularly when those three girls are coming out with their, hands up in their little dresses. Thoughts like that? Yeah. My thoughts on that was, you know, I know the officers who were probably thinking, we don't know who's back here. You know, we don't know what their mindset is. Correct. So they're, you know, they're trying to protect themselves in that situation. That's where they had their hands up, you know, not, I felt, bad for the girls to be in that situation, but I think they were, you know, also conditioned

by this brainwashing bullshit, that, you know, not to trust anybody, you know, much less law enforcement. Correct. So I felt bad that they had to, you know, walk out or, you know, climb over all that crap and, you know, jump out of the back of it. Like, you know, it felt bad for them, you know, but I also know that there's another side to that with these law enforcement guys don't know what they're,

you know, who's back there and what do they have? Absolutely. Even if it's a little girl, do one of those little girls, you know, did Sam Bateman give one of those little girls a weapon? Right, they don't know, you know, it's just such a, you know, I agree, I agree.

It's heartbreaking to watch for me little girls walk out, but I understand why they had to walk out with their hands up. They didn't know who was back there hiding behind a curtain, you know, with a toilet back there, but just, yeah, to know they were back there too, right? I can't imagine being law enforcement and realizing as they walk out, there's just like three young girls, you know, that are sitting back there. Yeah. Yeah.

I mean, tell me it's not trafficking without telling me it's not trafficking. You know what I mean? It's just like. Oh, my God. you know so yeah anything else um i'm i'm looking forward to you watching this netflix documentary i'm curious what your thoughts are going to be uh yeah you know i know i know i still know like i still know very little in my mind like there's more to learn here right um that i don't know all the ins and outs of this guy and how he um who he

was like in his unincarcerated phase of life, you know, what this guy was, you know, like in real life. You know, I don't know if that, how different it is from the guy that was in the courtroom,

you know, the defendant. I'm curious about that. I'm curious to see who this guy is. That's interesting. Yeah. Yeah. That's interesting. Well, this Netflix documentary is going to show you a lot then i can't wait till you you see footage of him hiking uh we'll have to touch base i'll

just say that okay okay yeah got a little bit of the the reaction to it from i don't know if it was the the doctor is it she's a doctor right yeah phd dr christine she was interviewing with somebody she might have been with you there might have been somebody else but they were talking about it and how he was kind of childlike. So I'm interested. I'm interested to see what this is. Yeah. I think during this trial,

she did an interview with Vinipolitan as well with Court TV. You might have seen that. And then I think she did a couple of interviews. And yeah, and I had one. But yeah, I'm really fascinated on your reaction. Maybe we even need to have like a, maybe this can be our first interview and then go watch it and then come back. and we'll do a second.

We'll do a second for a. All right. Sounds good. Yeah. Rich, I appreciate you so much coming on. It's so interesting just to understand the jurors thought process through a trial. I know it was a quick trial. I agree with you.

They kept it contained, I think, which made a lot of us even more curious. Like, what do they know? What are they thinking? What are they feeling throughout this whole thing as they see some really bizarre things and here's some bizarre things. But they're sticking to just, right, this singular. or crime, multiple charges, but three counts of child abuse that he's been now convicted of,

but these singular charges without kind of knowing the entire backstory. Yeah. Thank you. He's guilty as hell. He's guilty as hell. That's all I can say about it.

There's no, you know, there's no if fans or butts about it. I mean, that was clear cut. That could have been an everyday case with anybody. Absolutely. We would have came to the same conclusion. and it didn't matter what the background of the individual was.

If it was an adult with his own children and doing that, we would have went guilty. Yeah. Because it's just clear. Right. It's just insane. So. Yeah.

Thank you, Rich, for being here. We really appreciate it. And like I said, be in touch after the doc. We'll talk. All right. Have a good one. We'll see you. Bye.

Bye.