Hidden True Crime - EXCLUSIVE: I had Postpartum Psychosis and Intrusive Thoughts--I was scared | Lindsay Clancy Case

Episode Date: August 28, 2026

In this exclusive interview, Lauren Matthias sits down with a mother who experienced terrifying intrusive thoughts and postpartum psychosis—and lived through symptoms strikingly similar to some of what Lindsay Clancy has described. What do intrusive thoughts actually feel like? Can you recognize that the thoughts are horrifying and still be unable to make them stop? And what happens when postpartum mental illness progresses to the point that you begin losing touch with reality? She shares her deeply personal experience, the warning signs she now recognizes, what was happening inside her mind, and how she ultimately got help. As the Lindsay Clancy trial raises difficult questions about postpartum psychosis, intrusive thoughts, hallucinations, and criminal responsibility, this conversation offers something the courtroom cannot: a firsthand look inside the experience of a mother who has actually lived through postpartum psychosis and survived it. About Hidden True Crime What started as a simple conversation at their dinner table became a captivating podcast. Join the dynamic duo of Dr. John Matthias, a criminal psychologist, and Lauren Matthias, an investigative journalist, as they delve into the psychological facets of unthinkable crimes every week. Their unique perspectives and in-depth analysis offer a fresh take on true crime storytelling. Thank you for your support through sponsorships, subscribing, listening, and becoming a Patreon member at⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Patreon.com/HiddenTrueCrime⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

There were certain rooms I would avoid because of the intrusive thoughts were very specific, throwing her out a certain window, like things like this, ways of harming her. And again, I was not saying these things. Hello, Hidden Gems. I am with Geneva, Pulfur. Geneva, for full disclosure, is a friend of mine, and in fact one of my oldest friends. We've known each other four years. We've been through a lot. Best friends in high school.

And Geneva and I have been talking through this Lindsay Clancy trial because Genova, when her first child was born, I'll let you talk about it, Jennifer. But you experienced some very serious and severe postpartum symptoms, including postpartum psychosis, right? Yes. I did not know that was the term or really even what I might have been experiencing until I ended up at a certain type of therapeutic clinic almost 14 months after she was born. I had been in therapy up to them. It was really ineffective. Nothing seemed to be working. And at that clinic, when they took sort of looked at the history, all of the paperwork, all of the different medications, and the insomnia issue primarily that hit really rapidly, she said, were you flagged for psychosis?

Because the inability to fall asleep persistently is one of, you know, one of the strongest indicators. So. Yeah. And I'll be honest, when your child was born, I did go out there for a time shortly after the birth. I wasn't much help because I didn't understand this. I didn't have a child of my own. So I'll forever say, I'm sorry.

No. I feel like I didn't even understand what was happening. So. Yeah. Yeah. And so not only did I not have never given birth myself. There was another level here that I was seeing my friend experiencing and I was really lost and confused because you were not sleeping. I remember severe insomnia and what I remember, and you probably don't even know what I remember, but what I remember is just you could not sleep.

I remember you like kind of collapsing on the floor once, not being able to sleep. I remember you guys hired a night nurse to finally get up so that you could sleep and then you still could not sleep. That's kind of what I remember. And then later I remember some more serious stuff that you told me. But that even then I didn't take that seriously and I regret that now because I'm learning a lot watching this Lindsay Clancy trial. So I think I also remember I'm going to tell you. You don't know this, but I remember, I was there like shortly after the birth, and I remember a neighbor of yours coming over saying,

you have postpartum depression and you were like, no, I don't, or you're kind of like in denial. But taking through, yeah, kind of like how it started and then what the symptoms were that you were feeling and how you realized the depth of what you were experiencing. Yeah, I would say the first strange thing I was experiencing was within the first 24 hours of her being born. I had about a 24-hour labor. I didn't want to stay in the hospital long. And so I had her, I think, 2.30 or 3 in the morning.

and I went home by that next evening. And my husband at the time needed to leave for work, so he had flown out. But my mother-in-law was there. And I remember getting home that night. Let me go back a second. In the hospital, I did. After my labor, I slept.

I napped or whatever. And then when I got home that night, obviously I was exhausted. I remember speaking on the phone. with my husband. I had tried to sleep. I had tried to nap. I would try to rest. And it's like my thoughts were loud. That's the best way I can explain it. And that was how I expressed it to him. He said, how is everything going? How are you feeling? And I recall saying, I don't know what's going on. It's like my head is really loud. Like the filter is gone and all of my thoughts are really loud. I can't, I can't sleep. Like I can't rest.

Um, so went through the first night with just this acute sense of alertness to like every thought. And I didn't realize that was anxiety at the time. And then intrusive thoughts too, those loud intrusive thoughts probably. Yeah, they weren't intrusive yet. Um, it was just a lot of just rapid worry. Um, is she breathing like anticipatory anxiety that was pretty, pretty significant. significant. And then the next day, sort of having moments of like, I think I'm okay. And my mother-in-law sort of saying, this is, why don't you go lay down? And I would. I would try to go lay down. And I just could not, I could not turn off my head. It would not shut off. And I had never experienced anything like this.

And then again, through another night, I did not sleep at all. And it was pretty torturous. And then I think it was around that next morning. I had my first panic attack. And I walked into where my husband was sleeping. And I said, I think we need to go to the hospital. Something's wrong, like very wrong. I felt totally out of, you know, out of my body.

And we ended up calling the doctor. and in hindsight, sometimes I wonder if that was the error. Maybe we should have just gone to the hospital, but what started was, okay, let's try a couple of sleeping pills for a few nights. If we can just kind of get that sleep, have it back under your belt, maybe everything sort of reset. And I was pretty quickly, like within a week, because of some good friends that had good connections, fortunately,

I was into a therapist and a psychiatrist, probably within 10 days of having her. And yes, I did not feel depressed, not in the least. I felt out of control, internal, completely out of control. And this is nearly 21 years ago. So they were speaking to me as if I had postpartum depression. And I was terrified of what was going on in my mind and did not want to tell them. Because I didn't feel, I didn't feel depressed.

I felt, I felt insane. Huh. So, yeah, so they started to experiment with medications. And initially it was like, let's try Ambien this night and not tomorrow night and see what happens. It was just a bit of a mess. And the nights when I had nothing, I would not sleep. at all. And at one point they doubled the Ambien and I think it was a 20 milligram dose and I slept three hours. It was like my head was just screaming, screaming. It was like total fear. So that was the

beginning. And all of the baby weight that I had, which was about 25 or 26 pounds, was gone by about day 16. Wow. Yeah. I was just, I was just, spiraling and when they started me on the meds especially all the sleep stuff that's when we got help at night with the hope that I was medicated enough to sleep but the the worry and the paranoia which I've recognized in some of Lindsay's case I wanted to be a really good mom and I wanted to do it hyper well and I if I had to take this you'd always wanted to be a mother you'd always need to be a mother. Yes. And if I had to take this medication, then I was going to have to pump,

and then I couldn't breastfeed. And then what about the impact? And then it's like my mind would go so fast into every avenue of emergency or potential problem. I couldn't slow it down. So it was alarming, to say the least. And this lasted also for months, too, because one thing that they're arguing on the stand, which I'm curious about is they're saying, well, you know, eight months in Lindsay, this isn't necessarily postpartum. And I kind of felt when we were talking, you know, off the record that you disagreed with that, can I say? I totally disagree with that. at least in my experience, the attempts at medication management for symptoms I was experiencing was a total roller coaster.

And I remember sort of feeling like I was giving in to something I didn't really want, but I recognized things were very, very wrong. And mind you, I wasn't saying to the therapist because I believed they would take my baby. Like, I believed a lot of irrational things. It was completely almost impossible to get rational thought in front of irrational thought. And by the time it felt totally out of control within the first three, I don't know, three or four weeks, they started, you know, one medication. And I remember within several days saying, I think I feel worse. And I was very much treated like, no, that's the depression.

And also still withholding, like I did not want to reveal what was going on in my head because I believed I would be put away or, you know. And anyway, within those first three months, I was on, I don't know, five different medications, none of which seemed to really relieve what was going on. So they were just throwing, did you feel like they were just throwing meds at you? Yes. Yes. and, you know, and I'm going to talk therapy, and I am a new mother who has lost a mother as a child, so I'm thinking, well, maybe if I just sort all this out and keep doing this, this will calm down, this will go away.

But it wasn't. And that's when, like, the intrusive thoughts had really become significant at that point. I would say within the, by three months. They were pretty consistent. And then. What were the intrusive thoughts? Yeah. So I couldn't even like watch the news if anything happened.

The first one I remember was I was watching the news. And there was a story about a child being assaulted. And all of a sudden it was my child and it was violent. It was extremely violent images like coming into my head that were so distressing. And so loud, vivid and loud, I had to turn it off. And then I started to have intrusive harming thoughts. And they're extremely vivid. And so I no longer trusted being alone with her.

And there were certain rooms I would avoid because of the intrusive thoughts were very specific, throwing her out a certain window, like things like this, ways of harming her. And again, I was not saying these things. I was just, I was too scared. I was paranoid. And so I started to create what they call safety behaviors, right? And fortunately, my sister-in-law moved in with us and moved into our basement because I was pretty significantly impacted. And even with that, there were days when I thought, okay, I can do this, I'm okay. I feel less calm. I start to develop a lot of self-monitoring, just obsessive self-monitoring because you're trying to control these intrusive thoughts, these violent thoughts. It's a total

threat to like identity, who you think you are. And sometimes they were so persistent or loud, it was this questioning of, is that me or is that a voice? Is that in me or is that out of me? Like a lot of confusion around just how chaotic and persistent it felt. So yeah, and with the medication not relieving a lot, I mean, I ended up at a different clinic at month 14. Okay. And that's when I had a therapist.

The first appointment was, you know, she was the one that said, were you flagged for psychosis? So by that point, I was a mess. 14 months in, yeah. This started shortly after her birth and now you're at 14 months and nothing's working. And you did think a lot of the meds made it worse. It was just messing with your brain. Yeah, I mean, so many different, yes, there are so many different meds that were tried. And then the benzodiazepine, like those types of meds, the Ativan or the Xanax or the Klonopin,

I was so worried to take those. I was paranoid to take those. I was convinced if I took them, I would be addicted to them. I didn't want to be that kind of mom. It's just you cannot slow down the cascade of catastrophic thoughts. Yeah. And so that was difficult. I had a hard time taking them because I didn't want to need them.

I wanted to be okay. I wanted to be a good mom. And I had assigned meaning to taking those that I couldn't seem to undo. So yeah, it's really hard to rein in the, how out of control it feels. when it's happening. Yeah, when you're in the midst of it, you don't even know what's happening. No, and it's just, I'd never experienced anything like that. I had never been on a psychiatric medication before.

And I remember thinking, oh, like having sort of a complete understanding of why people take their own life. Like, because it would have been a relief. So did you feel that ideation? Oh, absolutely. Yep. Absolutely. Yes. Sometimes just there were days, sometimes just being awake for 10 minutes with myself was, I mean, it felt like hours. It was excruciating just to be awake sometimes for a day. Yeah. You know, and as someone that does know you, like I can attest to just how shocking this is, you know. Yeah. I don't know Lindsay. You know what I mean? Patrick knows Lindsay and says she got sick, right? So all we can do is listen to the evidence and and listen to those that knew her. But yeah, I mean, to hear this as someone that does know you, it's, it just is. It blows my mind, you know. And you've had more children since and that has not been the case or? No, so I was still in a pretty structured therapy program. I had created so many safety behaviors and I had major, major sleep issues. There was just a lot of trauma around what I had been

experiencing. And yeah, so I was still in a pretty structured therapy program, exposure therapy, sleep therapy, act therapy, and creating fear hierarchies and trying to sort of like shift the relationship with some of the intrusive thinking and some, you know, the fear of myself, my mind. And my fear hierarchy in that therapy, which it was pretty effective, was having another baby. I was terrified of having another baby because I had lost my mind. And, um, I had a surprise pregnancy. And at that point, the therapist was like, yay, this could be very good for you to have a deconfirming experience. But it was pretty intense.

That was a really difficult pregnancy for me. I had done a huge amount of personal research on looking anywhere I could because I felt like I had totally lost my mind. and I wanted it back. And so kind of went about a postpartum plan in a bit of a non-traditional way, I guess, and got my doctor on board. And I did high-dose progesterone therapy. I kind of presented it, like I've read this could work. And also just kind of had meds ready.

So I had like, you know, you're preparing plan as much as you could. Yep. Yep. And then did that with each baby after that. And I knew for myself at that point, if that would have happened, that significant and torturous level of insomnia right out of the gate, I would have just asked to be hospitalized instead of going through that kind of rollercoaster again. Yeah, roller coaster.

So, I mean, almost kind of torturous, just a little bit like you couldn't escape? Completely. Yes. Yep. Yeah. I want to thank you for sharing about this, too, because I know that you and I have been talking, and then I finally asked what you want to share this? Because even I didn't know the depths of it until this trial, and, you know, you and I have

been talking. The self, I mean, there was the ideation, the self-harm ideation, but the, the, you know, the visuals of your child being harmed. Would you say that it started with intrusive thoughts because you'd watch the news and then shifted to you seen? Yeah. Or how does it work? Like how does it?

They do shift. They can attach to some whole or come from who knows where, whether it's you're carrying the baby down the stairs and suddenly it's this intrusive thought or really vivid image of your throwing the baby down the stairs. or you walk by a window and there's a very, you know, they feel very real and vivid. And it's like, it's like you're being assaulted by an image. And you think it's so difficult because you're like, is this me?

I must, I must be want to do this, right? So yes, they are very vivid. So it was the news one was the one I just remember. That was the first where I was like, whoa. what's going on. And then, yes, I had like window ones, car ones, even myself running a bath, like wanting to just be under the water, like things I had never experienced. And it's so persistent. It was so persistent when it would happen. And it wouldn't happen every day. And I don't know if part of that was because I had created safety behaviors. I don't go in that

room because of that window. I don't, you know, like this kind of, there's these, there are these OCD components to it, right? And, um, yeah, but I would say it just, it bounced around. And then there was, uh, uh, the only time I ever called my husband at work ever, um, was an intrusive thought. I, well, it didn't seem it was me, a voice. And I was cutting an apple. And, um, And this outside voice just told me to stab her. Like, she was upstairs asleep, but I just, it's the questioning of self, is this, that, you know, this confusion. So I call them and said, you have to come back. Like, I can't, can't be alone.

It's just, it's like, yeah, it's pretty unreal. It's also devastating to hear her story. I haven't followed it perfectly, but what I have seen, it sounds similar. Like I can relate to plenty of it. And it's heartbreaking because I can't help to think, oh, hey, my first baby is 21 years old. Like, there should have, we should know more by now. That's what I was going to ask you is did you feel very long? Was there information for you?

Like when you went searching or trying to understand, did you just feel like a, do you feel like a bad mother? Did you feel like something was wrong with your brain? Did you feel? Oh, I felt like an incredibly bad mother, which was confusing. Like how could this be happening? I think for me personally, there were components of scrupulosity because I'd grown up very religious.

And so there was a lot of like right, wrong, black, white, very binary thinking that was added a layer of kind of complexity and sort of like torture to that experience. But, you know, Brooks Shields, I think, I remember she had written her book, Down Came the Rain. And I don't know. I want to say maybe within two years before I had my baby. So I remember her talking about it. And it was kind of, it was a big deal. Like it hadn't really been talked about. And I don't know if because hers was just termed, and I don't want to misspeak, but the way I remember it was she was, it was postpartum depression. And so I was very much just treated as you are, you have postpartum depression, which I did. But that's not initially

how it manifested, right? Right. Manifested anxiety. Complete, yes, complete anxiety and insomnia. Yeah, so it's disheartening that we haven't gathered enough information and therapeutic understanding and just to support women because it is excruciating to survive that and claim out of it. And it stays with you. Yeah, right. It stays with you. You will always know this chapter and this part of you.

Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think overall, I think what this case is showing us is that there simply isn't enough information on what this is. And I mean, even hearing the differing views of Lindsay on the stand from different medical experts is kind of blowing my mind a little bit, you know? And for there not to be clear answers is interesting that we're essentially, trying to decide as a nation through this trial what was wrong with Lindsay Clancy. And here you are thinking certain things sound familiar.

And I just think it's so important to write, talk about what this is that women experience after giving birth, how long it lasts. And also because it is a very specific thing. It's after childbirth, it's postpartum, and it's much more. severe than the postpartum depression label. Yes. According to the DSM is, you know, just depression and then underneath it is postpartum and that, you know, there's all these different layers, but there's no specific even thing in the DSM right now is interesting to me.

That's when I heard that, I mean, it shocked me. That is absolutely wild to me, irresponsible too. I don't think you can really appreciate or understand that kind of headspace unless you've been in it. And I remember as I got better, I just, I feel so much empathy and compassion for mothers like Lindsay or Andrea Yates. You are not in your, you're not in your right mind. you can't find it sometimes. And it's very, very terrifying. It's like, where did I go?

You know, it's grasping, grasping. And so I think there needs to be much more conversation about the different types of postpartum experiences. I had three additional babies. I did not experience that. Again, I did get a little down with maybe one or two of them, like maybe more the post-prudence blues, but no, that post-partum experience I had something like Lindsay had, those are extremely different. And unfortunately, I do think a lot of women experience it,

and there's deep shame. Yes. Deep, deep shame around. Yes. I mean, I didn't voice it even to a therapist. I was terrified, terrified. So. Yeah. Right. That's what I think, too. I think a lot of this too is also the deep shame when it does happen because it's also surrounded by motherhood, right, and being a good mother. Oh, yeah. Which creates even more shame. And so a lot of this too is not talking about it. And it is so important that perhaps in this, this trial has allowed more women to bravely speak out. And I think it has been really helping us understand mental health, post-examined.

part of mental help. Yeah, absolutely. So thank you. Thanks for sharing your experience with me and publicly because I do think there does need to be more voices out there so that women don't feel alone. You know, can get the help they need. Yes, I think something that even it sounds simple, but by the time I ended up at that therapeutic clinic, the first appointment, I was so scared to even say what was going on. And she asked me very directly, do you have harming thoughts? And I kept denying it.

No, no. Really? Oh, yeah, because I was starting to panic. Because I believe she'll take my baby. That will be on to me, right? Whatever. Are you sure? You denied it.

You denied it. Yeah, yes, yes. No, no, I've never experienced, no. And she, are you sure? None? And she would let it sit. And then finally, I told her. And just in what I learned, she said they're actually incredibly common.

They're incredibly common. And women, a lot of women, don't know that. And yeah, so I would just hope that there can be more open conversation amongst women, amongst mothers, amongst providers. And we can have a more open and honest dialogue because it isn't an indication of you being a bad mother. you know, to experience those thoughts. Yeah. Yeah.

It has, it is no indication of being a bad mother. Yes. In fact, sometimes can be the opposite. You want to be such a good mother. Exactly. Yes.

It was almost like this hyper vigilance that just got completely out of control in a way. Yeah. And you didn't mention losing a mother as a child, which you did. You were young when you lost. your mom. Yeah.

And so I remember talking to you, too, about maybe how that also started your anxiety that you thought this could be the same situation. Do you think with your child or no? I'm just curious about how that because you brought it up. Yes. Well, I think I had this belief or hope. Like, okay, something must be wrong with me because I lost a mother. And so I'm this motherless mother experiencing motherhood.

So that makes sense. I need to process the loss of my mother properly and then I'll get better. It was more like that kind of thinking, like how do I get better? How do I hurry and get better? How do I make this stop? It must be related to my mom's death. But if you're asking, did I have a lot of worry about me dying prematurely or losing my baby prematurely? Yes, I did.

And I'm sure there's. Parts of that were due to the history, you know, that I had. Yeah. But it wasn't the ultimate cause of the intrusive thoughts and the psychosis or anything like that. No. No, I've never experienced intrusive thoughts like that since. I can be a very obsessive thinker. I had a lot of remaining safety behaviors after that experience that I worked through for years

because I became scared of my own. mind. I was terrified of my own mind. It became a total prison. And so it was a lot of work to undo what that did. But no, I have never, never experienced that kind of vivid, intrusive, terrifying, thinking sense. Okay. Well, thank goodness and thank you for sharing this. Yeah, and I would have done things very differently had I been older. We're all learning with her and understood. We're all in the process of learning. Yep. Yeah. So you're wonderful. Thank you. Thanks, Lauren. Thank you, Jennifer for sharing this. And I think it'll make a really big difference. So thank you for being part of the conversation. I hope so. Yeah. Okay. We'll see you.

All right. Bye.