Hidden True Crime - EXCLUSIVE: Juror 5 - The Moment That Changed Everything In The Conviction Of Lori Vallow Daybell

Episode Date: June 14, 2025

Hours after the verdict dropped, we sat down with Juror #5 from the Lori Daybell trial, after she was convicted of conspiracy to commit the murder of Brandon Boudreaux. In this exclusive interview, Juror #5 open's up about the deliberations, the evidence that stuck, and what it was like sitting feet from Lori. Limited Trial Merch: https://www.bonfire.com/store/hidden-true-crime-limited-merch/ About Hidden True Crime: What started as a simple conversation at their dinner table became a captivating podcast. Join the dynamic duo of Dr. John Matthias, a criminal psychologist, and Lauren Matthias, an investigative journalist, as they delve into the psychological facets of unthinkable crimes every week. Their unique perspectives and in-depth analysis offer a fresh take on true crime storytelling. Thank you for your support through sponsorships, subscribing, listening, and becoming a Patreon member at ⁠Patreon.com/HiddenTrueCrime⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Find your precise probiotic at a Walmart near you. These statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease. Hello, Hidden Gems. Really quickly, I just want you guys to know who is here. They do not want their photo or video shown right now, at least. at this time. But this is juror number five. And I did just talk to him. I know exactly who he is. And back, many of you know about a juror that I said yesterday or two days ago during a storage

unit video was smiling. This is that juror. I want everybody to know right now that he just jumped on. I confirmed it's him. He started to talk about everything. And I said, wait, wait, Can I just start recording? And he said, OK, let me turn off my camera and I'll talk to you. So this is your number five. This is our first real conversation. Live chat, can you first explain how that happened to? I was looking up her past cases on thing.

And your live came up as one of the suggestions in her name when I typed it into the YouTube Google search, you know, or YouTube search. And I was just watching like, you know, some previous videos. And I saw the live one. And I was like, oh, let me listen in because this has like a psychologist and a journalist already on it. I'm like, okay.

Because we didn't want to talk to the jury or the media when we left. So we got let out a different way. So it was just like none of us wanted to really quite talk just yet. Because we were just getting hit with information as soon as we got released from our admonition. We started looking up her name, and we were finding out a lot. And I had no idea it was such a high-profile case, actually. I was just going in to do my, you know, civic duty, you know, be a juror on a case, even against other people like, oh, you should just make up anything to get out of it.

And I'm like, no, I mean, you need people. If everybody did that, nobody would ever be on a jury. Yeah, exactly. So you went in there, just I'm going to be honest. If I can do it, I can do it. All of a sudden, your juror number five, you know nothing about Lori Valo Deval at all. Nope. Not a thing.

And in the state at the time, too. I've been here since 2008, originally from New York. I can hear the accent. It's a good accent. Yeah. So originally from New York, you're called for jury duty, no idea. You've been in Phoenix forever or this area, Arizona. And you're watching her and learning.

I mean, first off, was it confusing? Like, by the way, guys, the verdict just came down hours ago. So this is like so real time. Was it confusing going throughout this trial and not having to look things up? A little bit. mostly it was like the format is disjointed because things aren't always played in order. So you get one witness telling about one bit of information. So I had a lot of notes and stuff.

And of course they destroyed those records once you, you know, get out of the jury pool. You know, jury, you know. So it's just like, I'm a little nervous. Sorry. That's okay. So, yeah, it was like, you know, I wrote down a lot of things. Much of the first, like, three, I'd say three and a half days were all focused on Alex and what he had done. And it wasn't really like anything confirming that she was a conspirator other than her brother used her vehicle.

Right. So it was like we really came down to the last day and a half. and, you know, that gave us the information that could actually hold to those charges. You know, because conspiracy, I would think it's like a rare one for prosecutors to go for because it's a very hard thing to prove. You need a real, like, an actual, real nailed down timeline and show that she actually did participate, knowingly, you know, in what her brother was doing.

And, you know, and then I had no idea even about Chad, her husband, Chad Dayball. So I'm learning a lot of information about him right now as we speak. You know, I'm just been looking it up myself. Are you kind of blown right now? Yeah. Yeah. I've never heard of like this doomsday mother, you know. and stuff like that.

I never knew the doomsday mom kind of thing. I had no clue. Well, welcome to the world and rabbit hole of Lori Valo DeVell. She'll unfortunately never leave your, you know, psyche again. She's definitely left the mark. Yeah. She definitely, the way she presented herself, I mean, you know, representing herself, of course, is like,

it's a risky thing to do. And I didn't know, like, you know, we're not supposed to, like, take that against her. And I'm like, I'm not going to take that against her. She can represent herself. There's nothing wrong with that. You know, so for her to, you know, she just didn't, like,

she kept harping a lot on the color that the witnesses gave of the Jeep. And it was just ridiculous. And it was like there was so much more information beyond that, you know, those two little statements and her going over that over and over again was like, okay, you can get past that. It just made her feel like, you know, she wasn't being truthful at all in a lot of like, you know, her opening statement, she actually did a lot of like, where she, you know, didn't pertain to the evidence. It was all like, almost like she was giving

testimony. Yeah. Same thing when we're closing. That's why she got interrupted a lot. I mean, there was quite a few sidebars. And I'm finding out just one of the sidebars where we got excused from the, you know,

we didn't even know about it, where she got taken out of the, you know, courtroom. I just saw that for the first time. Just, you know, hour. You saw it. You watched it? Get her out? Take her out. Yeah. Judge Boreski was a very, you

He was very calm, collected. He, you know, was willing to listen and take everything that she was trying to, you know, call in, you know, she would call foundation on things or, you know, stuff like that, but give no real basis for it, you know. It was just like, I'm just gonna call foundation. And he would be like, okay, you're gonna give me anything more than that? What you're, you know, what are you meeting by your, you know, calling that foundation?

she gave no nothing more. So it was very, uh, quite amateurish for a somebody, you know, trying to play an attorney, but she definitely gave the impression that she loved the attention. Ah, really? Because, you know, a lot of the time just, you're probably noticing this too. You guys had the best view of her.

The camera only gets the back of her head so often. So what was she doing? She liked the attention? Tell us more about that. Oh, yeah. She definitely wanted to, like, she seemed to, I guess, get joy in the fact that, like, when Brandon was up on the stand, for instance, she definitely gave this, like, impression when she got her turn to go at him, that she could try and play on this one thing that kept getting, I don't know if I should even mention it, because I don't know, like, you know, I know I'm released. from my admonition, but I'm like, I don't know if like it would matter at this point, but she kind of played into what his, what his sexuality was. She did, yeah.

It was a video, you know, had gotten like, that was available on Facebook or something about Pink Boney. And then we knew about something that happened at her house in Chandler on July 11th, but we had no clue of anything else. We just knew something happened that day that made, you know, Brandon be like, you know, when the incident happened on October 2nd, well, definitely these two people, you know. And that was like, you know, the start of everything. Because of July 11th.

So do you know what happened on July 11th now? I do. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

I'm like still processing. it. So. Yeah, and she was only convicted of that one just weeks ago, really. We just, you know, in fact. Back in I believe, right? Yeah, and two of those jurors actually, two of those jurors that were part of that guilty verdict were in the courtroom today for your verdict. Oh, wow.

Yeah. It affected them a lot. So they came back. They're like, I just, a lot of the past jurors are having a hard time processing everything. processing everything. So, you know, there's your, it's, you've got some days ahead of you. I hope you're okay. Yeah. Have you learned about her other convictions in Idaho already? I did. I guess we, JJ Wallow and Tiley Ryan. Yeah, as well as Tammy Daybell.

Mm-hmm. Her own children. Yeah. Her own children. Her only surviving child, was also in the courtroom for a couple of days. So, yeah, and he was outside the courthouse today after speaking with Brandon. Her only has one remaining child that survived. So, yeah. Just a few minutes ago, I actually watched a video of Brandon thanking, you know, the, you know, the prosecution and the jurors for, you know, they're doing, you know, taking the time out of their lives to, you know,

know, sit on the jury and giving, you know, the guilty verdict and stuff. So, I mean, it made a little bit better about, like, you know, like I said, at the time, we really didn't have any real information about her other than the evidence that was presented. And a lot of, like I said, the first few days wasn't really evidence about her. It was about her brother. Yeah. and what he did, you know. Before I switched to Wealthfront, my APY was probably 0.1.

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Direct deposit $1,000 a month and fund an investing account for a 0.25% increase. Cash account offered by Wealthfront Brokerage LLC, member Finra, SIPC, not a bank. Instant withdrawal subject to conditions, fees, and eligibility requirements may apply to certain checking features of the cash account. Why? Sue, you caught my attention. It was two days ago. I reported on it. It was when the storage unit video was being shown. There was actually a grin on your face. You did not have a poker face for a moment. And what were you thinking as those storage unit videos were being shown? Really has nothing to do with the case. What I was smiling about was the cute dog that kept running around the lot. So when they were showing that, I would just smile because I love dogs, so I love animals. So I'm like, oh, this dog is just running around, checking everyone out and just, you know,

hanging out in the parking lot and stuff. So I was actually smiling about that thinking like, oh, my God, this dog's so cute. He's just checking everyone out, being up to everyone. So that was the only reason why I was really smiling about that. Okay. To like go into that information, that was like the real, like, first part of what they started showing us that showed she participated knowingly, did, you know, took those steps, you know, to, like, be a part of this and knowingly. part of this. Like, and then, like, the last day was more the cell phone records and, you know,

her going basically within the area where her brother purchased the cell phone at Walmart. So, I mean, you know, that, it was like, you were right there within that area, now. You were on your cell phone talking to your niece. you may have not talked to your brother, but you talk to your niece on the cell phone at that time. So it was like, you know, this is like where we got into the real part of what the charges were.

I felt. Yeah, so the timeline, I agree with you. And so the timeline in the last two days really painted the conspiracy for all of the jurors. Yeah, definitely. And is that just you or everyone, all of the jurors? I would say there were some that were already pretty convinced. There was probably just a few of us that were convinced at that time.

Three of us did let go toward the end, so, you know, there were three extra alternatives, and so we had to get picked out of those, you know, they picked three people to leave, and I was kind of like, oh, my God, I spent so much time listening to all this and writing all this information down, I would have probably been, like, really disappointed if I was one of those alternates that had to get dropped right at last minute. Yeah, yeah.

What? So when you said there were holdouts or? I wouldn't say they were holdouts. We just, they were waiting for more information because, like I said, the first few days just kind of focused. on what Alex had done, if the, you know, like,

all the testimony and information that we were getting was kind of disjointed and, like, out of order. So, you know, we really didn't get to the crux of the actual charges until the last couple of days. Right. I agree. So there were people that were already like, nah, she already lent us this car. I said, yeah, but, you know,

I kind of held the reservation. and they didn't. They kind of were already convinced at that point. So it wasn't holdouts. We were just waiting on a little more than just him having her car. Exactly. Her car wasn't quite, I felt, the standard enough to say that she did, knowingly and participated in it.

You know, when we got video footage of her, you know, taking the seat and the tire and putting it into a storage unit, it, that's like when I said. That's when it was like, okay. And then I did notice her smiling during that. Like, she, and, you know, it kind of, I smiled because of the dog, but I did notice her. You know, I did write down a lot of things that I just observed, you know, that weren't really evidence, wasn't really anything. I didn't take it into consideration, but it was just for my, my own, like, you know, thought of what I was watching.

And how she's acting and, you know, during certain things that were being presented. That makes sense. So where were you? I agree. I thought the timeline was really, how do you argue video over at the storage unit, right? When were you officially convinced in? When were you like, I know that it's guilty for me? I definitely would have to say, let me think about this.

because, you know, a couple of things. Like, I think it was the cell phone kind of tracking, like that, between that and the actual, her going to the storage, I think the absolute clincher for me was when her brother returned from Arizona and she helped him get the seat and the tire back out of the storage unit. I think after that, there was like,

I don't, there's no reasonable doubt at that point for me. Okay. What about, and what about the other jurors? Were there holdouts then that took longer than others? And when was everybody convinced? I don't want to speak for other people, but at the same time, it was, I would say, like, most of us were already leaning toward that. And so we got the very fine detail of the judge.

cast report. Cell phone analyst, you know, just, you know, the team that did the cast report from the FBI definitely painted a very, very clear picture.

You know? Her holding his cell phone in Idaho and trying to make a call, you know, even before the time, because I guess they didn't know that he was going to go to the gym that day after he dropped up to kid to his, you know, soon-to-be ex-wife.

And then, you know, he took that extra hour or so. So he was sitting, you know, her brother was sitting in a Jeep for basically an hour. I definitely would say, now that I think about it, those Google search, those were very, like, I don't know how you could get past that. You literally looked up these things. Yes, you try to use a dummy email. You know, you tried to use an email that wasn't something that you normally always used. And you looked up all these things, you know.

And then her brother looked up a ton of stuff and looking up the exact address. How would he know the exact address other than through you? Yeah, your family. Family tells you a lot of things and stuff. But why would you get that specific exact address? And that definitely was a huge thing for her to overcome. And I don't see how you could. I agree.

Did you guys have questions about Alex, by the way, about his death or where he was? Or was it just like, okay, he's dead? Early on, we knew that he had died like just, I guess, few months after. So, you know, that kind of question was answered almost right away. like we got that information i think within the first couple of days first day or so so um if i recall yeah i think it was like the first day or the second day we we knew like oh yeah he had died and it was like oh did she try and kill him too it was like one of those things right you know uh i find out later on now obviously he died of some i i guess a pulmonary embulism or

something like yeah We'll always wonder if you've been following this case. Yeah. Consider how much the other, you know, things she's done, now I'm, yeah, definitely like, oh, my God, she could have slipped him something in his, you know, drink or something. I don't know. Yes.

She couldn't put it past her. Right. No, I know. So one of the things that we were concerned about as we reported on this trial every day and you and all of your fellow jurors was a lack of motive. Because when you start learning about her on this case, as you're going to do and are doing in real time, you're going to see a lot more about some very strange motives,

including a whole belief system and a possible cult. But was a motive an issue to you guys, like figuring out the motive here? I kind of feel like we got a good picture of the motive when they were discussing or what Alex was doing. So we kind of felt like, okay, well, we could see a motive for Melanie. Right. But there wasn't really a clear picture for the motive with her.

Right. Until a little later on, like, you know, I would say I'm really trying to just go back through everything that, you know, I had written down and stuff. So I'm like, I remember writing down certain details, and I think it was like, it wasn't so much her, I guess maybe a big part of it was her temple recommend, but I mean, it was, I felt like there was more to that. And I felt like that July 19th incident really was like something that, I don't know if we, because we didn't know at the time,

like it could have played a part. But we already knew, like, okay, well, this is going to help her with her, basically. I'm guessing that Melanie's kids look at her as grandma because Melanie's lost her mother. And we knew that much, you know. And so, because she had made it a point to point that up, that Melanie, you know, Melanie was like my daughter. Right. And so we're looking at like, okay, so the grandkids going to see you.

You know, her kids are going to see you as grandma, basically. Right. So, I mean, definitely, a grandma, you know, even as delusional as she was, you know, wants to keep contact with her kids, basically, her grandkids, you know. So it felt maybe like custodial to you or something. Like, it was a custodial. A little bit of custodial, but a lot part of, I felt like it may have been, the big main factor was, like her church temple recommend. And then on top of that, you know, knowing that her niece would get this money,

I think that was the other part of the motive for her to, you know, want to take care of it. So it was like the custodial of the kids, money from her niece from, you know, Brendan's death for the life insurance. And then on top of that, her temple recommend. you know, thing. Those three things. Like, it was like, that's, that's a pretty good motive at that point. Right.

Yeah. The irony of custodial, though, right? After she kills her own kids and you learn that now. I didn't know that at the time. Yeah, I didn't know it at the time. Yeah, so it's interesting. So almost like her saying how close she was to Melanie didn't bode well for her. In other words, you're like that you're giving us a motive.

What about, did you think that she was kind of throwing her knees under the bus though when she was saying look she's the one with the motive not me definitely i mean uh it was like she because she portrayed herself at the beginning as that she cared about her family is a very you know like i love my family i don't like you know but then to just be like oh well wouldn't it make more sense that it was my niece like you know that was like you know that was like you You just was sitting here telling us about how you love your family, and family is kind of like everything in your, you know, and your religion and her life and everything.

So it was just like, wow, that was quick turnaround for you to just flip that back over to, you know, now this could, well, it's more likely it was my niece and who's to say that my brother and my niece didn't, you know, plan this out. and it was just all, you know, set up. Right. Yeah, I'm glad you guys are noticing all this. I mean, this is incredible. You guys were an astute jury. What about, I do want to go back for opening statements, and then I'm going to get more into deliberation.

But in her opening statements, when she said she was all about love, yeah, I have to be honest, those of us in the gallery that have been following this case and these crimes for so many years were just, we were just like aghast that she said she was about love. Did you guys just, how did you feel, not know anything about it, where you're like, okay, or were you like, this is weird, or what were your feelings when you heard her say

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I'm going to put this aside for now and we'll revisit. visit this later once we have more information. So a lot of like the opening statement, we weren't supposed to consider any evidence. So I wrote things down, but I didn't like, I kind of quit it off. I really didn't want to focus on that too much. Same thing with the prosecutor's opening statement. I really didn't want to focus. I wrote down things for timeline, what the prosecutor was giving us for timeline version. You know, I was taking, taking, down notes of how she presented herself in her opening statement. But I really put it, I pushed that aside because I really didn't want that to influence me. I wanted to really be honest about,

like, there's strict evidence, only things that admitted into evidence could be really considered. So to try and, you know, hear this other information, but ignore it. You know, I really, had to just like completely just push it to the back of my mind. And like that's why I wrote it down. So I wouldn't, you know, need to look at it until later if I needed to really come to, like if I was torn, I would come maybe down to that. That's a good juror. That's a good juror.

Thank you for doing that. Did you ever get the sense that this was a bigger case when you looked out into the gallery or did you just think that we were all family sitting there? When did you start to wonder, is this a bigger case than I realized? Or more high profile. When I say bigger, I mean a more high profile case. I mean, I didn't think it was really that high profile. I mean, at first at least, because they did give us a warning, oh, yeah, there's going to be probably camera crews.

I think the first couple of days there were like YouTube or TikTok people that were doing like little shoots outside and stuff like that. just outside the courthouse and stuff. So it was like, you know, they had to make sure that they didn't say things in front of us when we would go out for our breaks or lunch. It's like, I didn't think, I was like, oh, these are just little things. These aren't real, this isn't that big.

Like, maybe they just, you know, made it, like, so that we were aware and a cautious of what, you know, because we're not supposed to discuss anything you're in your admonition and like really talk about it. You know, we weren't supposed to talk about it to each other. We weren't supposed to do like any kind of looking at anything up on our phones and stuff like that. So, yeah, it was kind of like, it was hard like to just try and put things aside and only focus on the evidence. Yeah.

So take me two deliberations, which was this, well, let's, start with yesterday. Closing arguments and you guys go back to the deliberation room after the alternate jurors are chosen, then what? What happens yesterday? I don't, I'm not sure if I want to talk too much about that just yet. Okay, let's skip it. I don't want you to talk about anything you're uncertain about.

Let's jump to this morning. Can I ask about, I mean, you guys were, you were pretty fast in there. I assume everybody felt the same way or what? I'll say this much. We, I think we were pretty set even the day before today. Today we were more going in as like, you know, to give people time if they needed, you know. Okay. But I was pretty sure the day before yesterday was.

like we already were kind of out of unanimous decision. I don't think there was really anyone that held out, but we didn't talk about it yet, even though we were given the option to, we all decided we wanted to get home. We were going to call it a little bit of an early day because we had now sat through. You know, actually when they picked the jury, the jury,

it was three days. We had gone in three days in our, we had gone in our Friday, then we came back on a Monday, and then we showed up on a Wednesday. And we had not even been selected yet. So we weren't even selected yet until that Wednesday, I can't remember the day now. It's all a blur. I always say the trials are one big giant day for me because it's hard to know.

There were, you guys had to keep coming back. I think it was like a Friday and then a Monday. What did you think was going on then, by the way, when you guys had to keep coming back? The judge kind of gave us like, you know, it's nobody's fault. It's, you know, we didn't really understand, like, when it happens on a third day and like, you know, this is now the third day and we haven't even picked the jury

and there's like still 80 of us, You know, it was like, now people are like, oh, well, I have plans for this, and I'm already going. So, you know, those people were getting excused and it was getting whittled down already, you know, to probably, you know, I think it was like 100 people at the beginning. And then it's like, it was like only 80 by the third day because then we were running into extra days for the possibility of the trial going into next week. You know? Right. Our schedule showed that it could go up to Wednesday of next week. So, you know, we weren't really, well, like,

to keep getting pushed back. And then so that more people were being let go and stuff from the pool. And then it was like, you know, by Wednesday, they finally picked. And basically the first, I guess, 16 people were the ones that got picked. And I just happened to be number nine in the pool. and then wound up being number five in the jury. Surprise. Yeah.

Were you okay or was, I mean, were you okay serving? It sounds like you just wanted to be honest or was it hard? I mean, I wanted to do like, you know, my service. I didn't want to just be like one of these people that just make up excuses and just get out of it. Right. You know, I had given, I had actually gotten a summons probably a year or two years before. prior, but I was having hip surgery at the time. So just at the time I was getting hip surgery, and so I got out of it because I had a medical

excuse. It's a little to get out of it. I'm not going to try and drive back and forth just after having surgery within like a day or two after my surgery. And I was like, there's no way I'm going to be driving and getting in and out of a car or, you know, like that, after just having surgery. So I didn't go for that one. So I was like, this time when I got a summons,

I was just like I was supposed to go to a trip and visit a friend in Canada. And it was like, I don't know now. I'm glad I didn't make the plans ahead of time because then I would have had an excuse to get out of it. But I was like, you know, I got the summons early enough that I had not made the plans yet. I was like, okay, I will, I will, you know, not go.

I will, you know, possibly revisit going and seeing my friend in Canada another time, you know, later than this year. So I was just like, okay, well, I'll just do that. And, you know, I was telling my friend, I'm like, well, I'm going to have to be going to jury service. And, you know, I won't be able to talk about anything. I won't be able to do anything once, if I get selected. Because I knew kind of how it worked. You know, I've never served on a jury before. So it was just like, it was interesting.

I was like, no, I just probably won't get pet. By the third day, I was like, oh, I am picked. Hey, I actually even admire it more, knowing that you had to move some things around and realizing this might happen. And I just want to say thank you for serving too, because for you to say I had to put everything aside and just focus on the evidence,

those are the jurors we need. So look, I'm grateful that you are a juror. I still have so many questions. I cannot believe what you guys have been through. Did you know, do you know now why, though? It took so long. Do you know what was going on? Have you been told?

I didn't. I haven't really. I know there were things that were being discussed between, I believe, the defense and the prosecution and the judge. There were quite a few sidebars during the trial. So, I mean, I had a feel, I heard now that she got sick, I think, one of the days and she wasn't feeling well or whatever. So, you know, I know I see that first day, but then the second one, I have no idea. Same thing.

She came in trying to say she was sick in refusing to move forward, wanting almost like a, she wanted to delay. She wanted to have a different trial date almost, like just saying she couldn't move forward. forward and the judge was forcing her to come and show up and pointing out that she didn't seem sick and she was denying medication. It was pretty wild. I did not know any of that. Yeah, we were watching each day in court. We were watching it go down and we were watching before the jury would come in before you guys would all come in each day, she would be demanding, I can't go forward. And he's like, you've got to. And then the jurors would all come in,

all the potential jurors. So it was you and many of them then. And he would say, I'm embarrassed. I'm so sorry, this has never happened before. He was just exhausted. And then she kept attempting to recuse the judge. She kept trying to get rid of the judge throughout the trial, too. And then claimed she was sick again like two days ago. He just kept going.

So. Oh, my goodness. Yeah. I'm surprised now, knowing all the information that I'm still, like, absorbing. You know, it's just like, wow. Yeah. Well, I can't imagine what you're absorbing. We've been talking. It's only been a few hours. It's been a few hours since this guilty verdict. So what happened after you guys came out and shared the guilty verdict and went back then what was the speech they gave you? They took you guys out a back way. What did they share before releasing you from your city duty? I would say it's pretty standard stuff. It was like, you know, survey on what things you, you know, like how the judge did or whatever. There's like a little survey thing, I believe they hand out. It was pretty standard. Then it was, you know, would you guys, is there anyone willing to talk to media?

And so it was like, you know, it was pretty unanimous. None of us wanted to talk to media. So, you know, because we really didn't have any clues still at that point. Some of us had started looking up on their phones, you know, like right after we got released from our admonition. So I'm sorry, I'm a tongue-tie on that one. But yeah, it's like, so it's like I'm hearing what people are reading, and then I'm like, oh, my God, this is a lot bigger than I thought. I had no clue that it was that big. I had no idea that it was this major.

Yeah. Surprise. So you're still processed. So everybody started Googling in there, though, and they were learning things right away. As soon as we, yeah, as soon as we were released and we had already given our verdict, yeah. And the judge came back and told us that we were released from our admonition and that we could look it up. There was quite a few people. I wasn't that pertained to look things up that right away.

But once people started telling me what, you know, a little bit about her and I was like, oh, my God, are you serious? I'm like, we had no clue that this whole time that she had done all these other things. it was pretty shocked. It was still shocked. And I think there's a few of the jurors that I'm still in contact with that, you know, that's why I don't want to say too much. And I'm like, you know, I'm talking to him, we've been chatting back and forth and just like, really. Still shock, still processing a lot. And so you know about our children,

you know about Charles Valo and you all. And you all, obviously know about Brandon. Yeah. And then Tammy Deba too. Gosh, well, I have some recommends for you. I mean, of course, I'm going to recommend my backstory. I've been covering this case for six years to the hidden true crime backstory as well as our podcast. And then the Netflix documentary is also helpful, I'll say. It's called Sins of Our Mother. Really? Yeah. Yeah. No, the Netflix documentary will give you a great background. It's called Sins of Our mother. And then I will send you our backstory, too, to get an idea of some things. And I'll share it in the description of this interview as well. But yeah, you've got a long journey ahead of you to

discover more. It, you know, I hope you do okay. I'm glad to hear that you are in touch with fellow jurors. You guys can process this together. It seemed like a good group up there. Yeah. definitely felt like, you know, a lot of people were just, you know, trying to be as honest and fair in our decision. We didn't want to, you know, try to make a leap to, you know, judgment on anything, you know, trying to make sure that, you know, just because you're charged with something doesn't automatically mean you're guilty of it, you know.

So we had to really, you know, just set that aside and just be like, okay, we're going to look at just at what we know, what can be proven, what's admitted, testimony, you know, it's fairly important, but not 100% like, you know, always something that you could always rely on, because people's memories are faulty. You could be mistaken with certain things, you know, misremember things, you know, and then the time had gone by six years. That was a pretty big shocker to me. I was like, Okay. This happened just before basically the start of COVID and stuff. Yes. Right. Before the pandemic, pre-pandemic, right. What did you think of Trina K, the prosecutor? Did you think she did a good job? Oh, I think she did a very good job. She was very good at her job. Yeah, I agree. I thought she did a great job. I would feel like she was ever a victim in something. She was, you know, one taking the case to, for

somebody to be prosecuted, I would definitely would hope it would be her. Absolutely. She definitely knew what she was doing. I knew about investing, but I really didn't know how to go about it. Meet Corey, a Walthfront client. With Welfront, it could put money in, and it would

automatically distribute it into a diversified portfolio. Then it starts to compound. The compounding compounds on the compounding. Just let it run, and it's great. Over 1 million clients trust Wealthfront. Get started at Wealthfront.com. Client was paid $1,000 for their testimonial, creating a conflict of interest.

outcomes vary. Investment management and advisory services provided by Wealthfront Advisors LLC and SEC registered investment advisor. Investing involves risk to principle regardless of the strategy used. Task performance does not guarantee future results. At my bank, I was literally getting pennies using wealthfront. Cheching, there's this much that I'm getting an interest and I didn't have to do anything. Clients like Angela earn up to 4.2% APY on their cash with the Wealthfront cash account. Get started at wealthfront.com. Client was paid $1,000 for their testimonial creating a conflict of interest. Outcomes vary. 3.3%. As of January 30th, 20th, 26 is representative variable and earned on funds swept to program banks.

0.65% new client boost for three months on up to $150,000. Direct deposit $1,000 a month and fund an investing account for a 0.25% increase. Cash account offered by Wealthfront Brokerage LLC, member FINRA, SIPC, not a bank. And so take us back. It's sort of something I asked already, but I want to understand. What sort of faces did she give you guys? Would she look at you a lot? Would she make eye contact with you?

What sort of facial expressions would you see from Lori? She definitely did smile a lot during certain presentations of certain things. she just definitely gave this like, like, smug, I kind of, I felt, like, attitude of, like, you're questioning experts that are, you know, doing these jobs for many years, and you're trying to just, like, like, the one thing that really was, like, a big kicker for me was she, try to like make, like, oh, well, you got these records from the cell phone from the towers. But they don't tell you exactly. And it was like, yeah, but then you have the Google map.

So I don't think she grasped the understanding the difference between Google's information and then Verizon's tower information. Because actually, my mother actually worked for Verizon for many years. So she worked on hours. And I knew all about that kind of information. So I knew how, you know, directional and everything, how all that worked. So it was no, you know, I didn't know all, you know, I knew that your phone could detect Wi-Fi. And, you know, obviously Google, if you're signed into an account, it's going to track, you know, hey, you got a hotspot, you got a hotspot.

You got all these, like, you know, available places you connect to. So I knew, of course, your phone's going to know all that. you know. So, yeah, but I don't think she grasped the understanding that, like, well, it doesn't tell you exactly. But yes, but then you did use a tower that was way down south by the Walmart when your brother was buying the cell phone. So, yeah, you may have not been, like, you were in Idaho Falls. That's not the same as Rexburg, you know, by your apartment. It's a tower that's miles and miles away. And she tried to play, like, you know, Like, well, you don't know exactly. You just know that it was off that tower. I'm like, yeah, but no. You don't understand then how towers work, and you're on a tower that's way south and right nearby talking to your niece,

Melanie, who's also using that same tower, you know, in the same area right by that Walmart. Exactly. Exactly. You saw the evidence for what it was. Thank goodness. Thank goodness you all did. I agree. Smug is a great way to explain it.

And as you learn more, it'll be even more shocking. Do you have any questions for me, juror number five? I would say like not right now. I look forward to what you're going to send me so that I can go and look over it and see, you know, all the things that I had no idea about. So, you know, like I said, I'm still absorbing. This is just hours after.

So I'm still kind of just shocked that it was as high profile as a case as you were making it out. Like I really didn't really know how big it was and the extent he had done prior. Well, I honestly want to thank you for opening up so quickly and being honest and sharing what you feel like you can share. because to get the insight from a juror is so valuable for so many, not just those that are curious, like myself and the true crime community, but also I think for the court system, and to understand how you process the evidence and understand the case. And so I thank you. And I do thank you for your civic duty and for your honesty and saying, look, I'm going to put

everything aside except for the evidence and focus on the evidence because that's where the truth lies. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you so much. You're welcome. You have a journey ahead of you. And I want to personally thank you to as I looked out into the gallery or excuse me, I was in the gallery, but from the gallery looking out into the jurors. And I was supposed to be the eyes and the ears in the courtroom relating to my listeners what I saw.

you took the job very seriously. All of you did. Mostly you guys had some solid poker faces. You look confused sometimes. You look concerned sometimes. And I don't know what you were thinking necessarily, but you've given us better insight into that. And then there was that smile that got me.

When you did that, you even turned to a neighbor and smiled for a bit. And I thought, I wonder what he's thinking. So thanks for letting us know. that dog. I think a lot of people were actually wondering about the dog. I think that on the hot mic, whether the judge heard asking like, what's with the dog? Yeah. Yeah. I was like, oh, my God, the dog is just running around, just checking everyone out, hanging out, being a good, like, you know, I think one of them mentioned, like, it was a junkyard dog. I was like, don't call him that. He's a

self-storage dog. That's right. Exactly. I agree with that. don't call him that. Yeah. Well, you, I know that we're, you know, Brandon has been waiting for justice, as you pointed out for six years. And that was delivered today. And, you know, he's been able to move forward in life and find love again. And it's, you know, I hope this is a, this is a huge step in being able to move forward.

And yeah, too. Yeah. I felt that today, too. It was like, you know, after seeing his message to, you know, I kind of even felt that beforehand when he was on the stand and how things were with him. I was like, this person needs some closure for this. I mean, I hope we can give it to him.

I don't know if we can because we have to, you know, wait and see and then come through an agreement and be unanimous on it. So it was like I never knew what other people were really thinking at the time. So. Right. Right. Well, thank you again. It is a good day for justice. It really is. And you played a part in that.

My goodness, be in touch. And yeah, any thoughts on Melanie Boudreau, too? Like, do you think that there are more charges now coming? She's never been charged. So that was a little. You know, that's going to be, you know, another thing. I'm like, I didn't know if she was or not. And she's not been.

So you're not. No, no, she didn't even know that. No, she hasn't been charged. with anything. In fact, it was the first time we heard that there was an open, not just an open investigation, but an active investigation into her. We were actually all a little bit surprised during that confirmation.

Yeah, so it would be very hard because I think, like, there's some, you know, basis. You know, you got obviously, like, leave a motive easily. But I would say to say that she knowingly participated, you would probably, you know, they got to have a really strong case for conspiracy, I think. So it's a very high bar for that.

And especially when the person hasn't been killed. Yeah. No, it's true. And I think that worried everybody in there. I would concur with that, actually, and say, I'm so glad that all of you were able to understand not just conspiracy, but attempted murder. There was no death, you know, and there was conspiracy.

Chad Davis has also never been charged here in Arizona as well. Only Lori. Lori has been the only one charged and now convicted of the attempted murder on Brandon Vodro. Yeah. And then also Melanie as well. So it's like. Yeah. Will there be any more charges to be to be determined?

Charged. I mean. Yeah. Yeah. But Chad Daybill. Chad Daybill is on death row in Idaho. And Lori has been convicted of four other murders. Yeah.

So, you know, when you hear that, like, thank goodness. saw the conspiracy written on the wall, you know, without knowing that information. All right. Well, I will let you go. Thank you so much for this very eye-opening interview. We appreciate it so much. Before I switched to Wealthfront, my APY was probably 0.1. Once I switched to, chiching. With the Wealthfront cash account, earn up to 4.2% APY on your cash. I can trust. Wellfront is taking care of me. Make your money earn more. Get started at Wealthfront.com. Clients were paid $1,000 for their testimonials creating a conflict of interest. How comes very.

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Get started at wealthfront. Client was paid $1,000 for their testimonial, creating a conflict of interest. Outcomes vary. 3.3%. ASEAPY as of January 30th, 20206, is representative variable and earned on funds swept to program banks. 0.65% new client boost for three months on up to $150,000. Direct deposit $1,000 a month and fund an investing account for a 0.25% increase. Cash account offered by Wealthfront Brokerage LLC, member FINRA, SIPC, not a bank.