Hidden True Crime - EXPLOSIVE New Details Emerge as Bryan Kohberger Fights to Remove His Plea and Defense Expert Speaks

Episode Date: August 4, 2026

Bryan Kohberger is trying to take back his guilty plea in the University of Idaho murders, claiming he was coerced into confessing and is actually innocent. Lauren Matthias breaks down Kohberger's newly filed post-conviction petition, his first public interview since pleading guilty, the handwritten affidavit, and what legal experts believe his chances are of ever getting a new trial. We also examine explosive new claims from former defense experts, including allegations that Kohberger stalked Madison Mogen for months before the murders and new theories about the digital evidence, cell phone data, and what may have happened inside the King Road house. Plus, we discuss the emotional reactions from the victims' families, why some want a trial after all, and whether this shocking legal move could reopen one of the most closely followed murder cases in America. After recording this episode, news broke about Bryan Kohberger being assigned a new attorney. His new attorney is Greg Rauch. According to reports, Rauch has said he has yet to speak with Bryan Kohberger or review any of the case file. He plans to speak with Bryan soon. Sponsor: Hims- Ready to reach your goals? Visit https://hims.com/hidden to get a personalized, affordable plan that gets you. About Hidden True Crime What started as a simple conversation at their dinner table became a captivating podcast. Join the dynamic duo of Dr. John Matthias, a criminal psychologist, and Lauren Matthias, an investigative journalist, as they delve into the psychological facets of unthinkable crimes every week. Their unique perspectives and in-depth analysis offer a fresh take on true crime storytelling. Thank you for your support through sponsorships, subscribing, listening, and becoming a Patreon member at⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Patreon.com/HiddenTrueCrime⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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app exclusive offers or go to quince.com slash hidden true crime. Get free shipping on your order and 365-day returns, now available in Canada and the UK too. That's Quince, Q-U-I-N-C-E dot com slash hidden true crime. Are you pleading guilty because you are guilty? Yes. In July of 2025, Judge Stephen Hibler looked directly at Brian Koberger and asked, are you pleading guilty because you are guilty? And Kovberger answered yes.

It was clear, direct, and it sealed his fate. But now he's trying to pull that entire moment back. He's changed his mind. And on top of that, new interviews just this week are bringing to light evidence that we have never heard before. Until now, defense experts alleging Brian was stalking Maddie Mogan for months that Brian Koberger thought that Maddie would be alone that night. and Brian Coburger himself giving his first interview to the New York Times. We will share everything you need to know about this petition and more. We have dug in. We have it all.

I'm Lauren Matthias, and this is hidden true crime. Brian Coburger is currently serving four life sentences for the murders of University of Idaho students, Madison Mogan, Zana Kernodle, Ethan Chapin, and Kaylee Gonzalez. He also received an additional 10 years for burglary. The plea deal he accepted spared him the possibility of a death sentence. In exchange, he admitted guilt to all four counts of murder. And yet, today, he says he's innocent. He says he was misled.

And he wants a trial. In a rare move, and I believe the first time he has ever spoken publicly to any media outlet, Brian Koberger gave an interview to the New York Times, and in that interview, he revealed that he has filed a petition challenging his conviction and seeking to withdraw his guilty plea. His written statement to the Times says, quote, over a year later, it is self-evident that in-state B. Kovberger justice was not served. Unanswered questions seem to multiply with each piece of discovery unsealed, and the public demands the truth. Unfortunately, the truth shall never be derived from the state's myopic narrative, a work of fiction, which has yet to evolve since the PCA was released nearly four years ago. And its faulty premises were never challenged at trial. Circumavated by a broken plea, the trial never provided the public, the clarity conducive to closure and justice shall remain objectively miscarried unless that plea is withdrawn. I hereby declare my intention to enter a not guilty plea, and welcome the state the opportunity to prove their case at trial as well as to, again, file for the death penalty. My actual innocence is my truth, and the plea hinged on by false promises and blatant disinformation must be withdrawn. Thank you for all who believe in my innocence and continue to critically analyze the case.

I send my love to my family, who have never wavered in their belief in who are. I am their belief in my innocence." End quote. Wow. Wow. Coburger later reiterated in a phone call from prison that he has an, quote, absolute claim of innocence. He refuses to discuss specifics or any concerns he has about the plea process, but he made it clear that he believes the public has not heard the full story. He said, quote, why am I breaking the case?

my silence, a lot went wrong in those plea discussions. I really do want that to be heard, end quote. And when asked about the evidence, the state presented in court, the DNA, the phone records, the surveillance timeline, he said, quote, the intention is for all of those questions to be investigated and answered appropriately in a trial setting. That evidence includes Coburger's DNA, specifically a single male profile found on the snap of a K-bar knife sheaf left on the bed beside Madison and Cayley's bodies. Investigators say the sheath was discovered under Madison, positioned in a way that suggests it had been left behind during the attack.

According to Amazon purchase records, Coburger had ordered a K-Barr knife and sheath, months before the murders, the same style of knife that prosecutors believe was used in the killings. He also drove a white Hyundai Alontera, the exact make and model investigators identified on surveillance footage circling the neighborhood around the King Road home multiple times in the early morning hours of November 13th. Cameras captured the car returning again after the murders and speeding away from the area. And then there's his phone. Remember, data showed that Coburger was out driving that night and that his phone was turned off during the window of the murders.

prosecutors argued that this was an intentional attempt to avoid leaving a digital trail when the phone powered back on it peened in locations consistent with the Alonra's movements. So far, the Lataw County prosecutor's office hasn't commented on Kovberger's attempt to withdraw his plea. But Idaho Attorney General Ruala Labrador did release a statement. He said his heart goes out to the victim's families who have already, endured unimaginable loss and now must face today's deeply painful news. He added that his office stands ready to do whatever is necessary to ensure justice is fully carried out. So let's go ahead and read the handwritten filing made public by court officials on Monday. It says, quote, affidavit of facts in support of post-conviction.

on petition state of Idaho, county of Ada, Brian C. Coburger being first duly sworn on oath deposes and says. It is hereby declared that during attorney-client discussions, most of which included all members of Brian C. Coburgers' immediate family, petitioner was convinced to falsely confess to capital murder and felony burglary by coercion, disinformation, false promises, and the withholding of exculpatory discovery. The following is material to the inception of the plea. Number one, counsel's failure to inform petitioner of exculpatory discovery received during plea discussions, namely clumps of unknown hair,

found in Ethan Chapin's hands as well as a failure to further inquiry. Two, petitioner was convinced that actual guilt was not an important factor in considering plea acceptance, death row was imminent and advised to lie. Petitioner was to gain a legal victory in entering a false plea. Three, a gross misrepresentation of and promises regarding what a life sentence would immediately afford petitioner and a gross misrepresentation of death row in Idaho, including an elaborate and fabricated story of counsel's horrific experience touring in actual 8-by-8 death row cell, all communicated to Petitioner and his family, allegedly by IDOC, through counsel, thus constituting threats and promises made to induce a plea agreement. Further,

yearifiant, sayeth not. Handwritten signature, Brian C. Coburger, I certify under penalty of perjury, pursuant to the law of the state of Idaho, that the foregoing is true and correct dated. 722. 2027. end quote. So, as many of you may remember, after Coburger was arrested in December of 2022, his first attorney told reporters that Coburger was eager to be exonerated. For more than two years, his defense team challenged nearly every major piece of evidence the state collected. They filed motions, questioned lab procedures. They pushed back on the prosecution's timeline repeatedly. But then, weeks, before, just weeks, before the trial was finally set to begin, everything flipped. A surprise plea deal came together behind closed doors. We were prepared to travel to trial ourselves. I had actually been on the media meeting that was on Zoom for all the media planning to cover, including who was there at the New York Times. Well, the surprise plea deal comes behind closed doors and at the July 25 hearing Coburger accepted responsibility for the murders. He stood in court. He said he was guilty,

but he was never required to explain why. No motive, no narrative, no explanation for the brutality of that night. That infuriated some of the victim's families and much of the public who had hoped a trial would finally force answers into the light. But even before the plea, there were people, including members of Coburger's own defense team, who took issue with the evidence and the plea agreement itself. One of them was forensic scientist Brent Turvey, who analyzed the crime scene for the defense. Turvey has argued that the murders were committed by multiple perpetrators and not one. He criticized how investigators documented the scene and questioned why certain evidence wasn't tested more thoroughly, including hair found with one of the victims, which Coburger referenced in his particular,

And now, with Koberger trying to withdraw his plea, you can imagine how some of the victim's families are reacting. Ethan Chapin's family and Madison Mogan's family both supported the plea deal. They wanted to avoid a long, painful trial and reliving every detail of the crime in front of the public. Kaylee's father, Steve Gonzalez, responded sharply, as usual. He said, quote, He did this after deciding not to leave his fate and the facts of the case up to a jury to decide his guilt. He never cried wolf or claimed he was uninformed or pressured. He admitted to guilt and was asked whether he actually was guilty and he said yes.

If Coburger is granted a hearing, the Consolves family said that day in court will give him a break from solitary confinement. he'll get a ride, different food, photos taken, and the spotlight once again fixed on him and his supposed innocence. They called Coburger a, quote, mosquito, you just can't seem to swat. Anne said the real tragedy is that even if a fraction of the energy spent trying to free a guilty man were directed toward honoring the victims, there would be statues of them on every corner, parks, burying their names, and days set aside to remember the lives they lost at the hands of a narcissist. Now, it is very rare for defendants to win post-conviction

challenges, but rare does not mean impossible. The bar is extremely high. In the plea agreement, Koberger signed. He acknowledged that he, quote, knowingly, voluntarily and intelligently waived all rights to appeal any in all issues in this case. Still, defendants can file for post-conviction relief if they believe they were improperly represented or if new evidence emerges. The question is, how likely is it? Look, when it comes to weight loss or really any type of medical care, there is never really a one-size-fits-all solution. What works for one person may not work for someone else. And having the right support can make all of the difference. It's 2026, and we are finally seeing options for people that are not a one-size-fits-all

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chooses to dig deeper, Coburger would face an incredibly high burden of proof. Curtis said, quote, so for the defendant now to come back and say, hey, listen, there were promises made. There's duress or there was ineffective assistance of counsel. Counsel lied to me. They told me that I didn't have to be guilty to plead guilty and say I was guilty. He almost got an insurmountable burden to be able to withdraw this plea, end quote. So after reading the petition, Curtis said he doesn't believe the evidence Coburger raised, including the clump of hair, comes anywhere close to the level of a sculpatory evidence needed to justify a reversal. According to Curtis, the judge has several options now that the petition has been filed. He can deny it outright or he can move to the next

step. That doesn't necessarily mean granting the petition, but exploring the allegations further through hearings or additional documents. The judge has 30 days to make that decision. And if he does request more information, Curtis says the state would then be allowed to question Coburgers attorneys, because attorney client privilege would be waived. Another attorney, Mark Iglarish, weighed in as well. And he was even more blunt. He said that Koberger's petition doesn't stand a chance. He said, this is not an uncommon motion. We see these all of the time from prisoners who are sitting around, and they want their 16th minute of fame. That's a great 16th minute of fame. The chances of him having this granted are so low and remote, I would equate it to Bigfoot, finally riding a unicorn. It's not going to happen.

what a quote. But a lot of people expected that skipping a trial would leave way for too many questions hanging in the air. We've seen this before, even in the Delphi Indiana case, where the decision was made to not publicize Richard Allen's trial. That can always become problematic, right? It creates a vacuum and some people feel that they had no choice but to fill the silence with theories, with doubts, with distrust in the legal system. I mean, I was there. I sat through the testimony. I saw the evidence. I heard every witness. I believe Richard Allen is guilty, but I can still understand without that transparency

why people who were not in that courtroom, who cared deeply about justice in that case and for the victims feel like they were shut out of that process and doubt the verdict. I understand because without transparency, they're left with lingering questions that never got answered. And when a case becomes a national obsession, when it's blown up by the media, dissected online and followed by millions of people, millions of people naturally get invested, they want to see the evidence, they want to understand the timeline, they want to watch the case unfold. And when that doesn't happen, when everything is handled behind closed doors, a lot of people never get closure. And believe it or not, there are entire communities across social media who genuinely believe that Koberger is innocent and who think he was coerced into confessing.

This new petition is only going to strengthen those beliefs. A public trial at the very least puts everyone on the same page. We all see the same exhibits. We all see the same testimony. We hear the testimony. We can understand what the testimony not just is written. but see it, feel it, understand the emotions, watch the same story play out,

and some of the victim's families actually want to trial. Some felt the death penalty was the only acceptable form of justice and that making a plea deal with a murderer was a cop-out, a shortcut that robbed them of answers. Because after hearing about the petition, the Gonzales family said, quote, an actual trial this time, let's go, we are confident he will get the death penalty that he escaped by pleading guilty the first time around.

They also said, regardless of how this turns out, our family is 100% ready. And here's the thing. People who attended the hearings who watched every motion and every argument generally agreed that Coburger had a very strong attorney in Anne Taylor. That's why it's surprising to see him turn on her now, essentially blaming her for steering him into a plea. Taylor was allegedly the one who warned him about what life on death row would look like. Making a guilty plea seem like the safest option. But it's interesting and almost ironic that Coburger is now claiming that he was duped. His whole persona has always been someone who thinks he's the smartest person in the room, right? He studied criminology. He earned a master's degree.

He was obsessed with serial killers and criminal behavior. In 2022, he moved to Pullman, Washington to begin a PhD program in criminal justice and criminology at Washington State University. He's not naive. He's not stupid. And he wants you to know that, too. He knows how the justice system works. So it's kind of hard to imagine someone with that background that he's very proud of being manipulated into a plea he didn't. want. But that brings me to some of the statements another former defense team member recently

made. And he apparently thinks that this whole ineffective assistance of counsel thing may have been a part of Brian's master plan all along. But before we get into that, let's talk about his other theories. Because in a recent conversation with Brian Enten, retired homicide detective and cell phone geolocation specialist, Cy Ray, broke down what he believes the digital evidence shows. Ray was originally hired by Coburger's defense as their phone data expert, but he now says that his own analysis pushed him toward a very different conclusion, that Coburger acted entirely on his own.

Wow, right? So that's a pretty sharp contrast to Brent Turvey's crime scene interpretation. because according to Ray, phone-based location records indicate that Coburger had been near and even inside the home at 1-122 King Road several times before the murders. They poured tons of data over. Why that's important, too, is it's not just the phone stuff. There's a lot of stuff inside the crime scene and things that I've reviewed in the crime scene. I 100% believe that the offender who is Brian Coburger, like there is no alternative theory in my head at this point. he's been in the house before. I think there's absolutely no doubt he was familiar with the basic layout of the house. I'm not saying he was intimately familiar with the entire house,

but he had a working knowledge of the house. That house has laid out very weird. I've been through the house. The path that was taken, what we see is what occurred in that house, him coming and going from the neighborhood, there's prior knowledge. There's no doubt in my mind that there's prior knowledge. So that also helps support some of this. Ray actually believes the data places Coburger inside the house on earlier dates, including in the living room. Ray also says he found repeated collisions between Coburger's phone and Madison Mogan's phone, meaning both devices appeared in the same place at the same time. Yeah. And to Ray, that pattern of those phones being in the same place at the same time looks like a deliberate surveillance, aka stalking behavior.

Ray said that the earliest collision he identified happened on August 28, 2022, near an apartment complex beside Coburgers residents in Pullman. Maddie and Kaylee had visited that area. It was the first weekend after school started, and I believe it was Kaylee and Maddie whipped to Pullman, and I believe there was some type of a sorority, maybe fraternity party, and it's in the apartment complex right next. to Brian Coburger's apartment. And at one point, Brian Coburger's phone moves over to that apartment complex as well.

And that's rare. He doesn't typically hang out in that complex. But this is only going back in August that first weekend after school started. The phones intersect in Poland. He also believes Coburger slipped into the King Road home during nights when the house was busy, possibly during parties, blending in while quietly studying the layout. The little bit that I have dug into, I also believe it's possible that Brian Cobur could have been at that house at certain times and not necessarily even been noticed. I think he could have blended in very easy. A large group of guys specifically, but a large group of college kids hanging out in near around the house may not have triggered what everybody thinks necessarily. I'm not saying that there's evidence of him breaking in the middle of the night and snooping around the house. I believe there's evidence of him. I believe there's evidence of him. him late at night being at near or in the house, but it's also at high traffic times in that

general area. And I believe he could have blended in really easy. In Ray's view, Maddie was the intended target. Maddie Mogan. He theorizes that Coburger entered that night expecting Maddie to be alone. Because remember, Kaylee was visiting only to find Kaylee in the same bed. Ray's reconstruction suggests that both women were killed before Zana encountered Coburger. Like maybe she came up to see what all the noise was about and then saw him and ran, which leads to Coburger chasing her into her room, where Ethan was also present in her room. Ray also thinks that Coburger crossed paths with surviving roommate Dylan Mortensen before leaving, but by that point he was physically drained and chose to run rather than.

continue attacking. But looking at everything that I've seen, I believe Maddie was the target. I believe Maddie is who he interacted with earlier. There's some other things that kind of support that. I hope a lot of this comes out at some point. I think... Sorry to know, but why do you say some things to support that? Is that the cell phones? Yeah, there's a lot more collisions between Brian's phone and Maddie's phone than any of the other victims. And what I'm saying about collision is they start to occupy the same space at the same time. And there is a little bit more of a pattern to that than with the other victims. And what do you mean, I don't know you don't have all the data in front of you, but like,

like in different locations or like what would say August 28th, but I could be wrong if that's a Sunday. The first Sunday after the full week of school starting in August, it's Maddie's phone that I think interjects with his phone in Pullman. And this is the apartment complex right next to. Ryan's. And they start off at, um, like the student center at WSU and then they move up to an apartment complex. And I, I think there was an interaction there that could have been the first crossing of paths. There's multiple times around the house, that A&W over time, but consistently

it's more with Maddie than the other roommate at that point. He dips into his fantasy fund and Kaylee's up here. And it was like that that's the moment he's going to plan this murder. and she's still down there and Kaylee's up here hanging out with us. So I totally agree. But I can't say that in a forum. And you guys know better than I would. I think the fact that Kaylee is in the same bed as Maddie that night is somewhat of a flu. Like that wasn't something he could have predicted.

So what I believe starts as a targeted one victim thing very quickly rolls into two. I think Zana interrupted that. And I think there's great blood out. the screen. Well, the screen, but also there's really good. So before in my prior life, before I started doing a lot of the phone stuff, I did a lot of homicide stuff. I was a blood spatter expert.

There is excellent blood spatter in this house that, in my opinion, Zana not only interrupts it, but he chases Zana through a big portion of the house. From there, Ray believes that Koberger initially planned to drive back to Pullman the same way he came, but after realizing that Dylan may have seen him and fearing Police were already on the way he changed direction heading south into rural backroads he was not familiar with. Ray says the phone data shows Coburger became disoriented, turned his phone back on to navigate, and stopped actually for roughly 10 to 15 minutes. According to Ray, the next day, Coburger returned to the same roadside spot before driving to the Snake River. race theory is that Koberger hid evidence there temporarily, including the night, and then retrieved it the following day and disposed of it in a river.

What drove me crazy in this case is when you see him go back in, by the way, the reason he went south is he panicked. Dylan saw him. He saw Dylan. Reasonable minds would say 911 is being called. And you can see in the video when he leaves, he's leaving in a hurry. If he drives back that same route, he's driving towards where Moscow PD is responding from. He's going to go right. back towards the police department. So he has to go down south. When you look at six months worth of his records, he doesn't have activity down south. He doesn't know 95 south of Moscow. So he gets about 12, 13 miles outside of Moscow. He pulls over. There's a good gap there, which has always been a concern to me, where he sets there for probably 10 minutes. He powers his phone back on. He goes in the navigation mode, and we see the route back. It's crazy dark too. So the audience might not know

what it's like out here in Idaho. You get out in that farm community. There's no lights. We don't have as dark as anything. Your headlights are all you have and high grass. So it gets, it gets, if you're not prepared for that, you're not, you're not going to be able to figure out where you're going. And without a phone, if that's your primary source of navigation, you're driving around like an idiot, you know, for a certain amount of time. Well, then like I said, you know, we've got six months of records.

I've got a mapping system. I can put everything in there and hit a play button. and I can watch his phone for six months going around on the map. What you see that morning of him coming back to Pullman, you never see in the prior five months of records. That's the first time he's ever done that route. And then within 48 hours, he's doing the exact same route again. And that's the last time you'll see him do that.

That, I mean, you give me the lais of lay jurors. I can connect the dots there to have them see exactly what's happening. And right after he completes that route, he goes down to Lewiston, right down to the Snake River. He's there for less than a minute or two. and then he's right back to Pullman. Like, what's happening? Of course we know what's happening.

He also claimed that investigators uncovered a large collection of extremely violent pornography on Coburger's computer involving scenarios where victims actually fought back, which Ray believes is relevant to understanding the crime. You know, there's some really disturbing things on his internet history that I don't know ever really came out that would be incredibly hard to just simply show and walk away from a jury, not thinking that it's going to leave a big impact, especially on the case. case of this nature. I'm talking right now specifically his porn history. He's got a very disturbing porn history that I think really paints a picture. And that's all non-consensual acts.

And I also heard gay, male-to-male gay. Is that accurate? I don't know on the gay stuff. And quite honestly, I don't mean this in the way it's going to sound. I'm not focused on the gay porn. For me, I know what you're focused on. For me, you hit it on the head, Olivia, the non-consensual, violent nature of the porn. I was aware of terms drugged, raped, passed out, sleeping. I would go more on incredibly violent sexual encounters. So not the sleeping or passed out, but very aware of what's happening and it being very, very violent. which is always a tough thing for a prosecutor, I mean, sorry, a defense attorney to get through.

That's something that's going to really tell a story about somebody's character. During the conversation with Brian Enten, Ray also criticized Coburgers' former attorney Ann Taylor. He suggested that there may be a long-term strategy aimed at future appeals and that ineffective assistance of counsel could be part of the plan. We have the ineffective counsel claim. We have the plea deal gets worked out within 72 hours. Ann Taylor stays on as Coburger's attorney. Like this last year, she's the only person on the jail logs that was visiting him on a regular basis.

He hasn't sought out new counsel. She's very much in his ear on a daily basis. We then see the Turvey Whitcomb book come out where, hey, there's all this conspiracy. Anne has to separate herself from that and says, oh, I don't agree with this. I'm going to reprimand you guys. Like, don't say these things. And now we see Brian drop. And I knew the appeal was coming.

In my book that I sent to the publisher in February, which is a man. It's not a Brian Coburger tell-all. I put it in the book. Like the appeal is coming. There's no doubt about it. You call it before it happened. And what I'm convinced about is Turvey and Ann are together on this. Turvey and Ann are not at odds.

Anne needed some new information because that's the only way in an effective counsel gets eight legs at all. They need something new to get spun up. They need it to be very well known. And now there has to be the separation where Anne is helping Brian, but not directly involved. And who takes that role is Turby. So Turby comes out, says all this nonsense. Brian writes his thing,

the last missing piece, and mark my words, I think we're going to see it the next 60 to 90 days, Anne will absolutely fall on her sword for BK. She is a true believer. She believes he's innocent. She has an unhealthy relationship with him. And I think we're going to see Anne come out

in the next 60 to 90 days, maybe a little bit longer, depending on the timeline, and she's going to eat the ineffective counsel. She's going to say he's right. I missed it. I should have known about it. So even though he once worked for the defense, Ray now says that he's convinced

COBRA acted alone after working for the defense. Yeah, carried out all four murders himself and actually intended to become a serial killer. Yeah. The other thing I'm going to throw back to Steve that is just mind-numbing to me is there is a pattern of him looking at multiple houses. I believe he's a serial killer. I believe that was the intent here was he was going to start his serial killer spree, if you will. And one thing you have to understand about the psychology of serial killers

is part of what drives them, part of what fuels what they're doing, is the randomness of selecting victims, watching victims and thinking in their head what they could do. But that is a huge piece of serial killers. And I think he had multiple targets throughout the entire Moscow Pullman area. And when you look at his phone at night, that's what he's doing. He is going around hitting these different houses, watching people, interacting with them potentially. In Ray's view, Coburger would definitely kill again, if ever released. He says that reenactments performed by the defense showed that the murders could be committed by one person in roughly five to six minutes.

I'm limited on some of this information. There was some reenactments that I know were done, and the reenactments, this crime could clearly be carried out by a single individual and it's five to six minutes. And if this push ever came to shove and that had to be proven in court, I know there's video out there of the reenactment. It's like there is no doubt that this is a single offender.

But Ray also emphasized that this is just his interpretation of the data and not proven fact. In my opinion, Ray's theory actually lines up with what a lot of us have always felt about Brian Coburger. A long-term self-serving strategy makes way more sense than the idea that he was somehow scared into a plea deal. Nothing about his personality, at least from what we know, suggests that he's the type to be intimidated, right, by a threat of death row.

Again, he's always seemed like someone who believes he can outthink everyone in the room. He's smarter than everyone. So when Ray talks about the possibility that this was all part of a bigger plan, I mean, it doesn't sound that far-fetched, at least not to me, but tell me what you think. Koberger has always seemed like the kind of person who would try to manipulate the system, drag things out, and convince himself if anyone willing to listen, that he's smarter than the courts, the investigators, and the public. Like he's playing some sort of intellectual long game, right?

He's quietly accepting guilt and fading into the background, but never really feeling like this is the ending to his story. And after hearing Ray lay out his interpretation of the digital evidence, I would really, really like to see all of that presented in a courtroom. Every bit of it, right? The phoned out of the movements, the collisions, the timeline, the recreation of that timeline, because that's the kind of evidence that could help convince the public

that investigators truly got the right guy. and finally give some sense of closure in this case. But I also understand why many victims' families want Brian Coburger to just fade away. But what do you think about this new petition? Do you want to see Coburger go to trial? And even if you do, do you think it's actually going to happen? It's pretty crazy that a case many people thought was finished, settled and done, could suddenly crack open once again.

But of course, then there's Alec Murdoch. So maybe it's happening more than we realize that a case that was not on my bingo card this week while covering the Lindsay Clancy case is all of a sudden a top news story once again. Koberger says he was coerced. But legal experts say the odds of undoing a guilty plea. This late in the game are almost non-existent. And the victim's families are split between wanting cloverished. closure and wanting a full trial delays everything out there, everything bare.

Over the next few weeks, the judge will decide whether Coburgers petition even deserves a closer look. He could just simply deny it outright, say, yeah, no, sorry, ending this entire effort with a single ruling. Or he could decide there's enough substance to at least explore the allegations, have a hearing, as, you know, suggested that it would mean that he would get a little field trip. If a hearing is granted, it would give Coburg or exactly what some of the families say he wants, right, attention. Whether that leads to anything meaningful is another question entirely. But for now, we'll have to wait and see. The judge has 30 days. And we'll be watching for any updates as they come. Hit subscribe, hit notifications, and thank you for your support here

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