Hidden True Crime - "I would've done ANYTHING" -Patrick Clancy | Lindsay Clancy Opening Statements -Inside the Courtroom

Episode Date: July 28, 2026

The Lindsay Clancy trial is officially underway, and I was inside the courtroom for every moment of Day 1. From explosive opening statements to Patrick Clancy's highly anticipated testimony, I'll take you beyond the headlines and inside the courtroom to break down what the jury saw, what stood out, and what it could mean as this closely watched trial unfolds. About Hidden True Crime What started as a simple conversation at their dinner table became a captivating podcast. Join the dynamic duo of Dr. John Matthias, a criminal psychologist, and Lauren Matthias, an investigative journalist, as they delve into the psychological facets of unthinkable crimes every week. Their unique perspectives and in-depth analysis offer a fresh take on true crime storytelling. Thank you for your support through sponsorships, subscribing, listening, and becoming a Patreon member at⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Patreon.com/HiddenTrueCrime⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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from this trial, every testimony, every witness, as we follow along together. So I just first off, want to start out by thanking you for supporting our independent journalism and for subscribing and sharing. And just before I entered that courtroom, after waiting for hours outside, we then go inside the courthouse and through security

and upstairs to the third floor. And that's where we all stand in line again. So before being seated inside the courtroom, well, while we wait, prosecutor Jennifer Sprague, she walks past all of us. I recognize her right away. And she is wheeling this large handcart, toppling with evidence boxes. Honestly, it looked heavy. She enters the courtroom before any of the media goes in, before Lindsay Clansy's family is seated, before the defendant is seated, and before the public is allowed seats. She walks right past us and inside with this enormous amount of evidence, boxes, stacked on boxes. And it was just sort of this solemn reminder of what we are all about to witness inside that room,

the evidence of three innocent young victims who do absolutely deserve justice. they deserve justice. But at the heart of this case is what justice looks like. And what justice looks like, it looks vastly different depending on if it's the prosecution arguing or if it's the defense arguing. And that could have not been made more clear today as both sides presented their opening statements. And after those opening statements, Patrick Clancy, the victim's father, took the stand, the ex-husband of the woman on trial. Yeah, it was heart-wrenching in that courtroom today. It was heavy. We're going to walk through all of it together.

So after being seated, court started with the court officer delivering the traditional opening, literally saying, hear ye, hear ye, hear ye. I was like, are we in medieval England? And then I was like, oh yeah, kind of, welcome to Plymouth County, because Plymouth County is one of the oldest court systems in the United States. Tradition runs deep in the land of the Mayflower. Hear ye, hear ye, hear ye. But one person notably did not follow court tradition. And that happened when we were asked to rise for the judge and jury. And only one person remained seated in that courtroom. It was the defendant, Lindsay Clancy, because she can't stand, because she's been in a wheelchair since 2023, ever since throwing herself out of her second-story bedroom window after killing

her three children. So as we all rose for the judge in that courtroom, her parents stood, her sister stood, her doctor stood, her attorney, Kevin Renington stood. The prosecution stood, the abundance of media stood, everyone was there. By the way, from the New York Times to the Boston Globe, to the Daily Mail, to hidden true crime. But Lindsay Clancy remained seated. She's paralyzed from the waist down. Assistant District Attorney Shannon Buckingham then stepped up for the prosecution's opening. She started with the children, the victims, Cora, Dawson, and Callan. Cora five years old, sparkly dresses, bows, and princesses. Dawson, three years old, all energy and trucks with a raspy little voice. And then there's baby Callan,

eight months old, chunky cheeks, always smiling. And then Buckingham said, we are here because they are not. And from there, she laid out the prosecution's theory. Take a listen. We are here, ladies and gentlemen, because they are not. They were strangled, deliberately and meticulously. killed by this defendant on January 24th of 23. One by one, she wrapped exercise bands around each one of the kids' necks and pulled until their little bodies were limp and lifeless. First Dawson, then Cora, and finally Callum.

Your job, ladies and gentlemen, is not easy in this case. the evidence will be difficult to see, to hear, to process. Testimony of witnesses, family, friends, teachers, people who knew the Clancy family, people who saw them regularly, people who saw them on the day in which this defendant killed them, they're all going to come before you. And it may be heartbreaking to hear what they have to say. you'll see photographs of the crime scene. You'll hear testimony from first responders.

They're going to tell you about what they discovered when they came into the Clancy Home at 47 Summer Street in Doxbury on January 24th. You'll hear evidence about the defendant during that time period, observations of her physical appearance, her demeanor. You'll hear testimony about what she was reporting to her friends and family and doctors during this time period. The list of witnesses is quite long.

Law enforcement, firefighters, friends, family, teachers, crime team investigators, forensic scientists, toxicologists, medical examiners, experts. We expect over the next few weeks that you will be able to or will be able to present to you, a clear picture of what was occurring in the Clancy household on January 24th of 2023. So she said that the jury's job would be difficult, but that they needed to keep an open mind and rely on their own common sense as they move through the trial. And then she walked them through January 24th, 2023, the day everything happened.

It had snowed. It was a Tuesday. The older kids, Corr and Dawson, they did not have preschool that day. so they were home. Cora had her annual checkup that morning because she had just turned five on Christmas Eve. So Lindsay took her to the doctor while Patrick stayed home with Dawson and baby Callan. The morning, it looked normal. It was normal. It was ordinary. Texts back and forth, Patrick sending a picture of Dawson proudly dressed in his own outfit, a milestone that the three-year-old had dressed himself. And Lindsay sending a photo of Coran her little mask and gown from the doctor's office.

And when they got home, Patrick, he went downstairs to his basement office to work like he usually did. Lindsay took over the kids for the rest of the day. She put Callan down for a nap, bundled up the older two, and took them outside to play in the snow. They built a snowman. She sent photographs to Patrick and her mom who had just visited that past weekend. Everything, and I mean everything looked like a regular family day. But Buckingham pointed out in her opening statements, the change that happened around 4 p.m. Lindsay started searching things on her phone. Kids laxatives takeout from 3V restaurant, the route and timing from their house to 3V. She called CVS to they had the laxative that the doctor recommended for core stomach issues. She was having a hard time

at school with her stomach issues. And then she texted Patrick asking if you want to take out because she didn't feel like cooking and he said yes. She placed the order. Patrick left her 515, he saw Dawson eating chicken nuggets and green beans on the couch, nothing unusual. He headed to CVS first and then to 3V, and bugging him told the jury, that's when the clock started. Lindsay knew exactly how long those errands would take. Because according to the prosecution, once Patrick was gone, Lindsay took the children to the basement. She separated Dawson from Cora and baby Callan. Yeah, we learned that today. She put them in separate rooms. Dawson in one room, Corrin Callan, and another, and that she strangled them one by one with the

exercise bands, first Dawson, and then to the other room where Cora was, and then Callan leaving the bands around their necks. She then went upstairs, she got a knife, a kitchen knife, a large kitchen knife. We saw a photo of it today, later in the day, and moved to the second floor. And in the middle of all of this, Patrick called from CBS. He called her from the pharmacy. She missed the call, but called him back. And they spoke for 14 seconds. Buckingham said that nothing in Lindsay's voice or words raised any concern for Patrick. He continued on with his errands and she continued with what she was doing. And upstairs, Lindsay locked herself in the master bedroom. She locked it. She crushed up pills, attempted to take her.

her own life and used the knife to cut her wrists and her neck. She moved from the bed away from, she moved the bed away from the window, opened it and went out. She landed on the ground outside. And next she described what happened when Patrick arrived home at around 6 p.m. Take a listen. A best bag with the medicine. He enters into the house through the mudroom door into the kitchen area, places the bags down, eerily quiet. He calls to the kids, no answer. He calls to the defendant, no answer. He takes out his phone and dials the number for Lindsay's phone,

defendant's phone. No answer. He then goes upstairs and finds the master bedroom door locked. He opens it and enters the room, sees blood and the window open. He then goes to the backyard and that's where he finds the defendant. She's on the ground outside that window, phoning and mumbling. At 6.11 p.m. He calls 911 for help.

First responders arrived to the home almost immediately. He's still on the phone with 911 when the responders arrive and they go right to the backyard and tend immediately to the defendant. While they're with the defendant, Patrick tells the first responders, I need to find my kids. he had asked the defendant where the kids were and she told them they were in the basement

so when he went in the house that's the first place he went down into the basement he's still on the phone with 911 when he finds each child with an exercise fan still wrapped around their neck he screamed for help and he says she killed the kids

efforts made to her assaults to take Corrin Dawson were futile but But first responders from Duxbury and the surrounding communities were persistent, and they kept trying to resuscitate them all the way to the hospital. First responders tried everything they could. They worked on Cora and Dawson all the way to the hospital, refusing to give up. But once they arrived, there was nothing more anyone could do. At another hospital, they managed to get a heartbeat on baby Callan, but he never breathed on his own. He never woke up. There was no brain activity. They transferred him to Boston Children's hoping for anything, but he died three days later

on January 27th. Lindsay was taken to South Shore Hospital and then moved to Brigham and Women's. She had a spinal trauma, cuts on her wrist and neck. She was paralyzed. The prosecution told the jury they expect the defense to argue that Lindsay heard a voice, a male voice that she had never heard before and never heard again. That night, that day. Either right after Patrick left or right after he called her from CBS. Because according to her statements, this voice told her that it was her last chance, that she had to kill the kids so she could kill herself. She said she acted immediately without any detail or instructions. And once the children were dead, the voice stopped. But the prosecution asked the jury to really think about that claim,

the timing, right? The source, the specifics of this voice. They said the judge, jury would hear from forensic psychologists and psychiatrists about command hallucinations, but they want to jurors to keep the details of Lindsay's story in mind when weighing that testimony. Hey, Ontario. Come on down to BetMGM Casino and see what our newest exclusive, the Price's Right Fortune Pick, has to offer. Don't miss out. Play exciting casino games based on the iconic game show only at BetMGM. Check out how we've reimagined three of the show's iconic games like Plinko, Clifhanger, and the Big Wheel, into fun casino game features. Don't forget to download the BetMGM Casino app for exclusive access and excitement on the

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that woman was not psychotic. She was intentional. She was rational. She was swift. She was acting with a very specific goal once her husband left the house. They told the jury that they would see evidence of her being an overachiever in school, in nursing, and in her personal life, someone who liked to control every detail. They said that behind the photos of the doting mother and dedicated nurse, there was another side, someone meticulous, someone that was controlling, someone, they say actually, that was manipulative. They described her life after Callan was born, how things got harder once Patrick went back to work full time, once the nanny was gone when she was responsible for everything.

They said that she struggled to maintain control, struggle to bond with her kids, and withheld information from her husband and doctors. They said she reported symptoms that did not match her daily behavior. And then Buckingham had this to say. And ultimately, on January 24th, 2023, the defendant made a calculated decision.

This was a woman who no longer liked the life, she thought she wanted. It was getting harder and harder to control. And when she saw the opportunity to escape, she made the selfish choice to take it and to take Cora, Dawson, and Callan first before attempting to take her own life. Ladies and gentlemen,

this is not a public debate about women's mental health and how the medical system treats women. And this case is about this defendant, Lindsay Clancy. There is no dispute that she was dealing with mental health issues during this time period prior to the murders. There'll be medical records, medical doctors, mental health professionals that will talk about treatment, prescriptions, hospital visits. All that's going to be before you. The evidence will show that this defendant had a means and access to mental health that, most people don't.

And she chose to deal with her mental health issues in the worst way. She chose to manipulate her providers, seek out the quick and easy fix when she was failing depressed and anxious. And when she didn't get what she expected, she chose an alternate route. She sought a different doctor. She changed medications after days. She disengaged from treatment when she didn't like the plan. after only four months in treatment,

she made a choice, a deliberate and intentional decision that she did not want to try anymore. And because no one could take care of her kids the way she wanted them to, she had to take them with her. Despite all the precision that she exhibited that day, you'll hear, the timing of it all,

the swiftness of the killings, overcoming the interruption of Patrick's phone, what she did not anticipate was that she would not be able to complete the act by killing herself. The prosecution argued that despite everything Lindsay did that day, what she didn't anticipate was failing to kill herself. She told the jury that mental illness doesn't automatically remove criminal responsibility. The question is whether someone understands the wrongfulness of their actions and can control their behavior. and she said that the evidence would show that Lindsay knew exactly what she was doing, drawing Patrick out of the house, creating the window of time she needed and then attempting to escape the consequences.

Buckingham ended by telling the jury that at the conclusion of the case, they would ask for guilty verdicts for the murders of Cora, Dawson, and Callan. Next, Kevin Reddington stood up for the defense. He is Lindsay's defense attorney, Kevin Reddington. And again, he came in with a completely, completely different tone. He spoke directly to the jurors like he was leveling with them. He told them that normally in any trial, you thank the jurors for taking time away from their lives, right? Their jobs and their families.

But in this particular case, Reddington said, he said, God bless you people. to listen. You know, normally we thank jurors for time away from your life, your family, coming to court,

listening to a trial certainly as a service that's provided by you as citizens, but in this case, God bless you. You people are going to have to listen. to some of the most horrific things.

Look at some of the most horrific things. And jurors, it's a beautiful system. You pass between, as you heard on the clerk's sake, probably don't remember it, but it's all language who's back to old England. It says that you as jurors pass between, the government then. And she places herself on her country,

which country you are. You owe allegiance to nothing but your oath, your consideration, and your time. Your common sense, you bring your life experience to this trial, you render a breath. And as jurors, the experience is, take the job very, very, very seriously. New people will never get this case. And thank you for that service.

It felt very sincere watching that. And then he said that the government claims this case is in a referendum on postpartum psychosis or postpartum depression, but in his view, quote, it sure as hell is, end quote, yeah, because the DA's office knew exactly what they were doing, he said, when they brought these charges. He pointed right at district attorney Tim Cruz, sitting in the front row and said Cruz knew the facts. He knew what this case would do to Lindsay's soul, and he still chose to prosecute her for murder. Weddington told the jury the yes. Lindsay knows she killed her children.

That's not the question. The question is why? What is happening to her mind? This moment was in court. The government says that this is a situation. It's not a referendum on women's having post-partum, psychosis, post-potting oppression, but it sure is hell is.

because you're going to hear, consistent with what is untold you in the instructions, consistent with the obligation that the government has when they brought this charge, they brought this charge. Tim Cruz, the DA, right in the front row, brought this charge. He knew, as did his office, the facts of this case. And he knew when he brought this charge that it was going to kill the soul of this young woman. and they would bring their evidence in front of a jury that she knows that she killed these children. We'll sit here, listen to their evidence, but I suggest to you that the issue of consideration is what was going on in that woman's mind.

Agree or disagree with him. That was a moment that the whole courtroom hurt. He then started painting a picture of Lindsay before everything fell apart. He described her as a parent pleaser, someone who always tried to do the right thing, someone who had friends from childhood all the way through nursing school. He talked about her being athletic, how she was this high achieving gymnast until she hurt herself and stopped doing backlips, how she was physically fit, how she ran a 5K just days after giving birth to her last child, baby Callan. He said that she said that she was. He said that she was physically fit, how she ran a 5K, just days after giving birth to her last child, baby Callin. He said that she watched what she ate, watched what she did, and was one heck of a mother. He leaned into the idea that Lindsay adored her children, that everything the prosecution said about those kids were, Lindsay knew a thousand times more. He described her decorating their rooms, creating a warm home, building a life with Patrick that looked like the dream they had worked for. He pushed back against the idea that they lived in some mansion saying that it was a humble house in Dugsburg, that they struggled to afford, but it was their home. And then he talked about the house itself,

almost mocking the prosecution's presentation of evidence. He said it wasn't enough to show photographs. Now there's video of the house. And on top of the video, there's a computerized animated display. And on top of that, the jury actually will have to get on a bus, go on a field trip,

and look at the house in person. Yeah, he said the house doesn't even look like the same now because another couple lives there. But the videos from that day show the toys everywhere, cartoon characters on the walls, alphabets, colors, numbers, a home, just obviously showing these obvious signs of kids that are living in this home, being loved for, care for. He pushed also back on the prosecution's claim that Lindsay killed her children

because she didn't like her life anymore. He said she loved those children. right up into the time of their death. And then he turned to the DA's office itself calling the case a massive production. That's in quote. These children were loved and nurtured and cared for by her. She didn't want to get rid of her kids

because of her selfish life, as the government indicates. She loved those children right up to the time of their death. You're going to see that there's photographs in this case that you will be able to evaluate and show that. Some of them might even be in the videos that the state police took. This case is a massive production by the district attorney's office. You have the district attorneys, the assistant district attorneys, the assistance to the assistant district attorneys.

You have the state police crime laboratory. You have the detectives. You have the state police, the armed men that will go out, interview witnesses and will investigate this case. You have the victim witness advocate. Very nice lady, by the way, that deals with witnesses and people in a case such as this. It's a massive operation, and that's great.

We should have that. But when you're considering the evidence, you consider the fact that we have two young people and we're living this life and we're working in Patrick, not because of COVID, not because of he just didn't want to work in an office anymore. He worked out of his basement. He worked in an office in the basement.

He was there because of what Lindsay was going through. Patrick was home because of what Lindsay was going through. That's what he said. He said Patrick lived it and Patrick will testify. Testify today. Reddington said that Patrick doesn't have to come into court and identify clothing or relive horror, but they will have to testify about what they went through,

the pregnancies, the postpartum, symptoms that Lindsay suffered from, their everyday struggles, the life they were living and trying to manage. He said that after their second child, Lindsay had postpartum depression and the jury would hear that postpartum can lead to bipolar disorder.

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July and August, those months had been great leading up to this tragedy, a happy family. But then in September, things went sideways, as he said. And he told the jury to remember how the government frames things, he said, how they point to certain details to suggest consciousness of guilt or manipulation. He mocked the idea that Lindsay faked her self-harm attempt, calling the cuts little cuts, dinky little cuts, scratches. And in the prosecution's opening statement, they called her wounds or cut superficial. He said the prosecution even claimed she asked for a lawyer at the arraignment and that he added, that's rich. That's in quotes. He had some great one-liners. Reddington kept going and this part of his

opening was all about, it was about dismantling the prosecution. It was about dismantling the idea that Lindsay's attempt was fake, which we're learning that that's exactly what they're going to try to do. He told the jury that they were going to hear evidence that after everything that happened in the basement, Lindsay went upstairs, stood in front of a full-length mirror, took the knife that she had brought up from the kitchen and caught her own throat while looking at herself. He said, this is no fake self-harm. He showed the photos, her neck, her wrists, her appearance when she arrived at South Shore Hospital. He described how the staff at South Shore saved her life against her will. And he used those photographs. We started to see these photographs just like being put up one by one, one after the

other to push back on the prosecution's idea that these were superficial, that this was fake, little scratches, dinky little scratches, he said. So he showed the jury on the screen. We could all see it and the gallery, the split skin on her wrists and wounds on her neck. Then we saw part of the crime scene. We saw the blood on the bedroom floor that Patrick had seen next to the cup she had used. He pointed out the white residue inside that cup, crushed pills mixed with leftover lemonade from the night before. He showed sleep aids, the deep sleep pillow spray, and reminded the jury that she had not been able to sleep in months. Then he went after the police theory that she somehow hung from the window ledge and slid down the side of the house like Spider-Man. That's in quotes.

He told the jury, they'd hear evidence that she actually flung herself out of the wall. window, hitting the ground head first, causing a Jefferson fracture, which is a catastrophic neck injury. He said she shattered, exploded her thoracic spine, broke her cervical spine, broke every rib, and he said that a Jefferson fracture is not consistent with a staged self-harm event. It's consistent with people who dive into shallow pools and then end up paralyzed. It's consistent with Christopher Reeves' injury. And Lindsay is paralyzed permanently. Again, she could not stand at all today. She was wheeled out in front of everyone. He told them she's living her own hell. She knows what happened to her kids and she wanted to die. He described the scene at Brigham and Women's when she was trying to be in emergency

room, packed with equipment, wires, breathing tubes, machines, humming, and clicking. And he said that she was laid out, in quotes, she's crucified, surrounded by armed officer guarding the hallway, guarding her bedroom and her bed. She's handcuffed to the bed so she couldn't see her family for over a week. She said the room was basically an armed camp at the hospital. He then turned to the prosecution's suggestion, the Commonwealth suggestion, that Lindsay only talked about hearing voices after meeting with Dr. Paul Zaisal, implying that she was coached to say that, really. Redington then said he had to move heaven and earth just to get into the room to see her,

and that the doctor is one of the most respected psychologists out there, embedded with the military in Afghanistan, involved in FBI and CIA post-trauma evaluations. He said that Zaisal didn't tell Lindsay anything about command hallucinations. He simply gave her a cell phone so she could call Patrick. And then Reddington told the jury that hear from a woman at Brigham's and women, someone from the hospital's religious services who saw Lindsay as soon as she came out of her coma. And according to this woman, the first thing Lindsay asked was, Where's my family?

And then she told her what had happened. She told her about the voice. This was before she ever saw Kevin Redington, an attorney or the doctor. He told the jury to stay focused on the evidence because it's easy for narratives to get manipulated. He said, again, there was no fake attempt at taking her life, no plan to fake sickness. This was a young woman who, with her husband, tried desperately to get help. And then he circled back to the prosecution's claim that Lindsay was shopping around for doctors. According to Reddington, he said that she wasn't doctor shopping for drugs, that she was searching online for someone who specialized in postpartum issues because she knew that she was in trouble when she could not sleep.

This is not normal new mom sleep deprivation because anyone that is a new parent can attest to sleep deprivation. Reddington, according to Reddington, this was not your average new mom, sleep deprivation. He said she was getting maybe two hours a night, three hours that she was lucky. He walked the jury through September 2022. July and August had been great, but then in September, things went sideways. And that's in quote, went sideways. He said, Lindsay saw Dr. Jennifer Tufts, who prescribed Zoloft in SSRI. Lindsay did not take it at first because she was breastfeeding and scared of exposing the baby to medication. But eventually she could not function anymore and started taking the Zoloft. And according to Reddington, that's when everything spiraled. And he used that word

spiraled because she was bipolar, he explains, and you don't give a bipolar person, Zoloft. He said the jury would see how the medication affected her, how she could not sleep, she could not emote, she couldn't feel anything, but still had to take care of three kids. He acknowledged that, yes, she talked to neighbors, teachers, friends, and the defense will call those people. They will testify about what kind of mother she was and what they saw happening to her. And Patrick, he will testify about the effects that this illness had on her, on his ex-wife, his then-wife. She was looking for help.

Reddington kept pushing the jury to see Lindsay through this lens of her mental collapse, including her search history. Take a listen. She was looking into it. You're going to see her Google searches. You're going to see her Google searches go on and on and on. about how to take care of postpartum, what type of drugs? Can you become addicted to benzodiazepines? What about, is it possible to have a treatment, a ketamine treatment?

What do I do as far as insomnia? What do I do about my thoughts to kill myself? Ways to kill. How do you kill? Government lashes led to that. Oh, my God. She's looking up ways to kill. Let's make that a basis of our prosecution on this case.

This is not a righteous prosecution. They're looking for every single piece of evidence that they can to show some ridiculous concept that she wanted to kill her beautiful kids because she didn't want to be a mother for. Well, then he went into sort of explaining who Lindsay was before all of this, you know, essentially character development for the jury, getting the jury to know Lindsay, his client. He reminded the jury as she was a labor and delivery nurse at one of the best hospitals in the country. He said they'd hear from other labor and delivery nurses. She would talk about how dedicated Lindsay was.

He told them that Cora, little Cora, this was touching, was named after the very first baby Lindsay ever delivered. That's where the name came from. Her first delivery is a nurse. He painted Lindsay as someone who spent her life helping people, being a good person, a good nurse, a great mother. And then as things got worse, she did what anyone would do. She looked for help.

Reddington mocked this idea. that she should have been visibly psychotic, like drooling or like putting tinfoil inside of a hat to be taken seriously. He said that the prosecution had videos of her and Patrick and the kids at the Museum of Science at the Cape, smiling, having fun. And he said sarcastically, oh, I guess she was fine. She put on a face she tried, end quote. And then he walked the jury through the medical timeline starting in September of 2022. On September 12th, She looked for a psychiatrist, and that's when she connected with Dr. Jennifer Tuffs. So in early October, first appointment, October 20th, she reported to Dr. Tuffs, Jennifer Tuffs,

adverse reactions to Zoloft. November 16th, and she goes to the South Shore ER because she was so depressed, so sleep deprived, so emotionally flat, like no affect, flat. She couldn't even laugh or cry. He said she was a robot. And then from there, she was referred to South Shore prenatal behavioral health, a place recommended by Patrick's mother, because Patrick's mother also happens to work in labor and delivery. This is a family thing, labor and delivery.

So Lindsay's mother-in-law. And then Redington explains that she did not seek them out to get drugs. She went because her mother-in-law told her to. And then he listed the medications. And he listed them, I mean, so many. It was like an avalanche, really fast. and here they are. Cirthraline, lorazepam,

hydroxazine, buzprone, trazidone, fluoxetine, increases, decreases, switches, another doctor named Julie Paul, more meds, more side effects, and more, as Reddington states, spiraling.

So then by late November around Thanksgiving, she's reporting disassociation and confusion. So they put her on Remmeron, things were so bad her parents come up from Connecticut to help with the kids he described her rocking on a sofa crying hysterically banging her head into a pillow he said patrick will tell the jury what he saw her parents tried to help they stayed through the holidays so then december fourth lindsay calls the hotline the suicide hotline December 5th she's evaluated by the aspire crisis team December 6th she sees nurse Jolata. He explained that Jolada was not someone that Lindsay shopped for as the prosecution is going to sort of try to paint this picture of her shopping for doctors, shopping for drugs. She was just the next provider after Julie Paul left her position. Patrick Clancy, her husband, went with her to the appointment and asked Jolada if Lindsay might

be overmedicated. And Jolada said it was possible. And then what does she do? She prescribed more medication, according to Reddington. He listed more meds, quatyapine, diapine, diabettaic. Vasopam increases, repeats, adjustments, December 9th, December 13th, then they went back to Tufts because they could not handle Jolada's approach. So Lindsay wanted to wean off the drugs, and Jolada told her to stay the course. By December 19th, 21st, 22nd, she was on 300 milligrams of quatapine, Qutaiapine, Mass General suggested a day program or the women and infants program in Rhode Island. So she goes to Rhode Island. for a day. They tell her they, they can't help her until the medications are cleared, not because

she wasn't postpartum, but because the meds were interfering with treatment. So he said that every doctor and nurse knew she was suffering from postpartum depression that was turning to psychosis. So January 5th, Dr. Goodhart put her on tracadone and lorazepam. New Year's Eve, she and Patrick decides she needs inpatient care. I mean, that's serious, you know, saying I need impatient. She went to the hospital in a locked ward for four days. He said she only saw a doctor once. There was no real medication discussion until the end. Her doctor's birthday was coming up, so she asked to leave one day early. He said this was not a discharge against medical advice. They cleared her to leave. They told her she was okay and to go home. So she went to the birthday

party at the trampoline park, which I was told by the woman sitting next to me that it was just right around. the courthouse where we were. And Lindsay at this trampoline park is still living her nightmare. And then on January 9th, back to Tufts, more diazepam, trazidone. The tracidone's increased to 150 milligrams. And then January 13th, Jolada again, more diazepam. And then he said the Rhode Island program reached out to Jolada about her meds and Jolada never called back. He said the medical records show Lindsay begged to we know.

off the drugs. She didn't want more. She just wanted to be off the drugs. Jalada told her to stay the course and said that she'd see her after vacation. January 16th, Tufts prescribes more diazepam. And then, Anna, Amitryptalyne. And then on January 23rd, the last prescription, last script, diazepam again. So he walks the jury through every appointment, every ER visit, every partial hospitalization, the impatient, every follow-up. He said that the prosecution, the Commonwealth claims that Lindsay manipulated doctors. And he says that that's nonsense, according to him. He says that she absolutely was in this self-harm ideation. She tells them that this ideation is real. And then in December in front of Patrick and her mother, she states that she was having psychotic thoughts about harming the children.

Yeah. So he said that this was a woman who did not get the treatment she deserved. A woman suffering from psychosis when she went into that basement. A woman with no motive. A woman who loved her children. A woman who intended to kill herself and did not fake it. a woman who threw herself out of the window, a woman who asked for a DNR in the hospital,

a woman who wanted to die, and a woman, this was sad, who still wants to die. Hey, Ontario. Come on down to BetMGM Casino and see what our newest exclusive, The Price's Right Fortune Pick, has to offer. Don't miss out.

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She had no motive. She loved her children. She intended to kill herself. She didn't fake that. Threw herself out the window. Most of the hospital, you're going to see that when she's in the hospital, they said to her, what do you call it, a DNR. Do not necessitate it without absolute.

did not want any DNR. They didn't want to be resuscitated. Wanted a day. To this day once a day. That's what we're dealing with on this prosecution. So then he tells the jury, the witnesses will be emotional. And he thinks the jury again for their service.

And then after this break, the Commonwealth, the prosecution, calls their first witness, I think that a lot of us were expecting who their first witness was, and their first witness was indeed who we suspected it was Patrick Clancy. So Patrick Clancy, again, the father of the victims was Lindsay Clancy's wife at the time. He has since divorced. Lindsay, they have divorced. So they are now ex-spouses. And he has since remarried and lives in a different state. But he's back here. And when he walked in, I think many of us were curious. I certainly was. He walked right in front of me. I was curious if Lindsay would attempt with her limited mobility to look at him. She did not necessarily work hard to look at him as he walked in. And he didn't look hard to, he didn't try to maybe look at her or make eye contact with her. He simply, he kind of scanned the gallery as he walked up to the stand and took the stand. And of course, one of the first questions he was asked to do was point Lindsay out and maybe state something she was wearing so they could confirm that he saw her and she saw him. But other than that, there wasn't a lot of him looking at her.

There was him, I'll just say this, he was really stoic, really stoic. He cracked. The first time he cracked was what I saw was when. they asked him about Cora and to say Cora's date of birth. And throughout this, and we're going to go through all of it, I could see him trying so hard to contain and compartmentalize everything in this trauma. And he would look at the ceiling, and he would look down and look away, and his voice would crack, and he was having a difficult time.

Anyway, they started with the basics, though. So he explains it. that he worked in tech for about 14 years. Again, yes, he's married to Lindsay. Yes, they're divorced now. He explains how they met in May of 2013, which was actually earlier than I had thought, which means that when this tragedy happened, when his children were killed, he had known her for nearly 10 years. They met in South Boston through his cousin, who had been Lindsay's college roommate. So they start dating that July. They move in together in September of 2015, they're living in Quincy for a year. And then they move to Weymouth for two years. They get

married in December, 2016, while living in Weymouth. And their first child, Cora, is born December 24, 2017. So the prosecutor asked whether Lindsay had ever told him she took psychiatric medication during nursing school. He said, no, not that he recalls. So after Cora was born, They moved to Duxbury, 47 Summer Street in July of 2018. And at the time, Patrick was working for a startup called Automation Anywhere. Later in May of 2020, in the height of the pandemic, he starts working from Microsoft. But he clarifies on the stand. He had been actually working from home since 2018, long before the pandemic, so this wasn't new.

Eventually, he had a finished basement office where he worked every day. Then they go back to Cora's birth. This is that moment where I say he's beginning to crack where he's the emotion is clearly starting to show the trauma. Patrick says that Lindsay's had physical complications after Cora's birth, tearing, heavy bleeding. And it took her a while to recover. She was working at Mass General as a labor and delivery nurse. And then at that point, she'd been a nurse for about three years. Her maternity leave with Cora was short just 10 or 11 weeks.

Patrick only had two weeks of paternity leave. So after his two weeks are up, Lindsay's still on leave. And that's when Patrick starts noticing that Lindsay starts developing anxiety. So not necessarily anxiety that needs medication. It's not medication level at this point. But she's struggling with the idea of going back to work. He said her mood was good at first when they were both home, but the anxiety kicked in as her return date for work got closer, understandably. After our first, understandably.

So before Cora, Lindsay had been working at least 40 hours a week, so full time. But then after maternity leave, she sort of eases back into work. First one per diem shift, then eventually two shifts, about 20 hours a week. They have help at home from a babysitter named Jen. she comes for about 12 hours a week so Lindsay could sleep after overnight shifts Miss Jen stays with the clansies for several years then comes their second child Dawson

two years later and then you had a second child is that correct yes and what was their name Dawson and what was Dawson's date of birth September 30th 2019 and was Miss Jen still helping out in the home at that time. Yeah. And what was Dawson's delivery like? Pretty traumatic. How so? He was in a, I think, a breach position. So he came out in a, I guess, I don't know much about it, but not an ideal

way. And it caused just significant bruising and tearing. So again, did the defendant with this second pregnancy have some pain and difficulty physically healing from the birth. Yeah, much more so than Cora. And was she on maternity leave at that time? Yes. So her maternity leave, that time was longer, about 18 weeks this time. Again, Patrick sees this sort of similar pattern with anxiety, right? That at first it's okay, everything's fine, but she starts to,

to struggle with anxiety when it is getting closer to her having to go back to work. She's having a hard time being separated from the kids, from her babies. The prosecutor asks whether Lindsay was on psychiatric medication. After Dawson's birth, Patrick says no. She did get a therapist for a short period, but it didn't last long. No psychiatric hospitalizations after Dawson, none after Corey either. Next, the state asks Patrick about some decluttering, decuttering he and Lindsay did in the garage. after Dawson's birth and Patrick said that, yeah, they sorted things into piles, piles to keep, piles to throw away, piles to sell on Facebook marketplace.

He said it was organized but also kind of ongoing, like they never really finished. Then they moved to their third child, Callan. And Callan is born May 26th, 2022. Patrick described that delivery as great. This was the delivery that neither the other two were. It was quick. It was during the day. both of them were smiling afterwards. There was no trauma like the first two births.

Lindsay had maternity leave planned again about 18 weeks, but ultimately she never went back to work. This time, Patrick had 12 weeks of maternity or paternity leave. So that summer, they're both home with the kids. He said that family life during those months was great. He spent a lot of time with Cora and Dawson going to playgrounds and birthday parties while Lindsay was often home with baby Callen. Sometimes she would join them, but a lot of the time, she sort of, they did a divide and conquer sort of thing. I mean, this was their third child, right? Divide and Conquer was probably about the only thing they could do. So they went on vacations to the beach, out on their boat, visited friends. It was a happy, normal summer. But he said the anxiety started

creeping back in around September. And the same pattern as before. As Lindsay's return to work date got closer, she starts struggling. He said that during those anxious periods, he never had trouble understanding her speech. She wasn't incoherent. She wasn't behaving in a way that made him think that she needed to be committed somewhere. During those months, when you're going to the beach and out on the boat and visiting with friends, Were there any signs of anxiety in the defendant during those months? I would say starting in September, yes, but in the previous months, not so much.

When had she been scheduled to go back to work? I don't remember the exact date, but I think it was October. So again, it was that pattern of as it became closer in time to go back to work, she started to struggle. Yeah. During the times when she would get, anxious when it was time to go back to work and she would start being anxious. Did you ever have any difficulty understanding her when she spoke? No. And did she ever exhibit any behavior

that made you concerned enough to call a doctor or want to commit her, commit her? No. He explains that Lindsay was stressed with three children, different nap schedules and different needs. Yeah, I can't imagine. He is still working in the basement office at that point when he went back to work in late August. He said that he came upstairs all of the time for lunch to check in and to say hi. Sometimes Lindsay would ask him to hold the baby while she was doing something. Sometimes he had watched one or more of the kids while she took another to an appointment. I mean, pretty normal stuff. Actually, a very efficient way to have three children with him working from home and both of them having that paternity and maternity leave and then him going back to work in his basement office.

They planned for her to return to work after Callen was two shifts a week is what they kind of planned. But he said there was flexibility. He said that they'd even put money aside for this moment. Basically a maternity account so she could take more time off if she needed it and if the children needed it. They were financially stable enough to give her that sort of cushion. So during fall 2020, Quora and Dawson are in preschool at Learning Sprouts in Duxbury, Massachusetts. They went full days on Monday, Wednesday, Friday, and half days on Thursday. Drop-offs and pickups were shared between both parents.

They hired a nanny around August or September 2022. Her name was Elaine. She worked about 12 hours a week, spread out, mainly she was there for Callan, baby Callan, since the older two were at school, right, during the day. The plan was for Elaine to get acclimate. before Lindsay goes back to work in October. Elaine did cleaning. She did laundry, food prep. Patrick said she was amazing. But then eventually, they let Elaine go because Lindsay never did return to work and was home anyway. The prosecutor asked about the kids' activities, gymnastics, swimming, skiing, soccer, so many activities. Patrick explains that he took them skiing. They swam at Goldfish

swim school in Rockland, and Lindsay took them somewhere in Plymouth. They also swam and at the Kingsbury Club, a gym with a pool and child care. Lindsay worked out too. Worked out a lot. Lindsay liked running. She used the Peloton and doing the beach body program. He said she was very health conscious and had been an athlete in high school and college doing competitive cheerleading. Then they go back to Lindsay's demeanor when he returned to work in August. He said she had increased anxiety and was definitely stressed. But he also described her as quote, in good spirits. When asked about how the anxiety showed up, he said it was just obvious.

You could tell that she was stressed. She'd say she wasn't looking forward to going back to work. She once said, it's just so unnatural to be separated from your newborn, end quote. I think many new mothers and fathers know that feeling. He said that she did want to go back to work, but the transition was really hard for her. What was the defendant's demeanor when you returned to work? Increased anxiety and definitely, you know, stressed out. Do you recall describing her as slightly stressed but in good spirits?

Yeah. And when she was stressed out, when she was showing some anxiety, how did that manifest? I don't really know how to describe it. I guess it's just any way you can tell that somebody's stressed out. And I don't know, she would say, you know, I'm not looking forward to going back to work. I remember once she said it's just so unnatural to be separated from your newborn, you know, stuff like that.

So she didn't want to go back to work? Is that what you're saying? I think she did. It was just a really difficult transition for her. So then the prosecution asks Patrick about a wedding on September 17th, 2020 in New Hampshire. This is, you know, September, the murder, the killings happened in January. So this is September, a wedding in 2022 in New Hampshire.

And Patrick said they brought Callan along with him and that at that wedding, Lindsay told him that she was thinking about starting Zoloft. She said that she thought it would help with her anxiety and with going back to work. Patrick asked how she'd get the Zoloft since it's a prescription, and she was like, well, usually, you know, you just ask the doctor and they'll give it to you. She also told him she was going to see a psychiatrist. She asked whether Lindsay told Patrick who she was going to see when she said she'd get the Zoloft. He said, no, she didn't tell me the name of at the time. Months later, though, he learned that it was Dr. Jennifer Tufts.

Lindsay did not tell him when she started seeing her, and she didn't tell him when she actually already received the medication or when she started taking it. He said they eventually had a conversation about her medication sometime toward the end of October, but he didn't know the start date. And during that conversation, he learned she was taking the Zolot, but he didn't remember many details. She was taking it and they were seeing how it went. That's in quote, seeing how it went, which, you know, makes sense with a new trillions. drug that you're starting for depression. He said that at the time he didn't notice physical changes. Emotionally, though, she was not improving with the Zolov. She seemed to be gradually slipping

into a more depressed state. He described small things, like how nervous she was about him taking Cora on a trip to San Francisco or how she seemed reluctant to go to a Halloween event. Just these like little signs that something was off, right? Then the prosecutor pointed out that Lindsay had actually obtained the Zoloff prescription the day before she told him at the wedding that she planned to ask for it. Patrick said yes. He learned that later. She told him she was going to ask for it, but she already had it. She asked whether Lindsay told him how long she took the medication. He did not remember the exact time frame, just that she took it for a period. Her sleep started to suffer, and she stopped taking it. She told him she spoke to her doctor about the trouble she was having,

and she told him that she was advised to double the dose. Patrick said her sleep issues eventually became noticeable. One night she told him, quote, I'm not mad or anything, but do you mind sleeping in the basement? Patrick explained that Lindsay wanted to sleep upstairs with Callan in that upstairs bedroom, hoping that maybe fewer disruptions would help her sleep because he was the one who got up and down to attend to Cora and Dawson if they needed it. So she's just trying to sleep. So he said he hadn't noticed her awake at night before she told him this, but he slept in the basement for two nights.

And then she decided actually to sleep down there instead. And she said that she was still having trouble sleeping, but wasn't down there physically watching. He wasn't down there physically watching her. And he only knew what she told him. And then the prosecutor dropped another detail out of the entire Zoloft prescription, we learned that Lindsay only took seven pills. Patrick said he didn't know that. This wasn't mentioned in trial, but I'll mention it. That's pretty common, by the way. If you're trying out Zoloft, seven pills, people that know, no, you're trying something. Seven pills. Anyway, that wasn't part of the trial, but one to throw that in there. She asked whether he noticed changes in her demeanor after she doubled the dose and he said, yes, she kept getting worse and worse from mid-October through the end of December. He didn't know which medication was. causing what, but her decline was steady. And then at some point, Lindsay switched providers.

Patrick said she did that because whatever she was doing with Tufts was not working. She was only getting worse. She thought a perinatal psychiatrist might be better. He believed his mother recommended someone and that person was Julie Paul at the South Shore perinatal clinic. And then he said that Lindsay saw Julie Paul for only four or five days before Paul left the office. And then after that, Lindsay saw Rebecca Jalotta, that nurse practitioner we heard about. So the prosecutor asks whether Lindsay also saw a licensed social worker named Latisha Dukes during that time. And Patrick does not recall any therapy sessions. Even though the prosecution is sort of trying to paint the fact that she did therapy sessions with this Latisha Duke's during this time,

Patrick's saying, look, I don't recall that. I don't know. So then they go into the medication, the medication avalanche again. Remember the medication avalanche you mentioned? It's back. So the bottles, Lindsay came home with. Some were from Tufts. Some were from Paul. Some from Jalada. Patrick confirmed that he gave the DA's office a CVS printout of all of the prescriptions filled from September 2022 through January 2023. He wasn't always watching her take the pill. Sometimes he saw it. Sometimes he did not. Make sense. He said, police took a bag of prescription medications the night the children died. Another bag, one that he kept in his truck was full of medications. Lindsay was not taking anymore. Jolada had told them that he could bring them to a police station for disposal, but he never got around to it. He kept them in the center console. The prosecutor walked him through the bottles in that bag, one by one. Here we go. Zolot. So the Zolopt is filled September 15th, 22, only seven pills taken. Then we have Ativan. Atavans failed October 26, 30 pills prescribed, only six taken. Buseparone, filled October 26, 30 pills prescribed, only two taken. Hydroxazine, filled October 26th, 30 pills prescribed, only three taken.

Another, Busebarone filled November 9th, 30 pills prescribed, none taken. Trazadone, filled. November 16th, 20 pills prescribed seven and a half taken. Patrick kept repeating the same thing. He was not keeping track of how many pills she took out of each bottle. Okay. I mean, I don't have those exact numbers on how many she took, but there was, there were adjustments made on the dosage of the adivant. So it aligns with what the question was, were you aware that only six pills were taken out of this prescription? No, but I think the context is important. I thought that part, I think the context is important,

was a really interesting line there that I think many people missed, and I want to point that out, because the prosecution kept pressing this point, right? He's responding in this sort of factual way. At one point, he kind of implies this needs more context. I think a lot of us in that courtroom, at least I am wondering where he lies now. I know the loving statements that Patrick has shared about Lindsay, his wife and ex-wife. But sometimes grief and time can turn to anger or questioning of things, right? So I was wondering, and him sort of saying that, I think there's some more context involved.

I thought it was really interesting because I think what the defense is going to bring to this trial is the context. I think the prosecution is trying to bring these points to really drive home the sort of, I'm going to say it, some of the points seem punitive to some people, you know, Puritan, those Puritan values. I think that what the defense is going to try to do with these points, these important points the prosecution is making is bring the context. and Patrick is stating their context matters. So anyway, just a thought I had while sitting in the courtroom today. The prosecutor kept pressing the point. Lots of pills prescribed, but not many taken. Patrick agrees. Out of the bottles, he turned over. It looked like a lot of them were not used, right? She asked him what the maximum number of medications Lindsay was on at any one time,

and he said three or four. She told him the record shows she was prescribed three at most, usually two, and he said that did not surprise him. Then they moved to November 16th, 2022, when Lindsay went to South Shore Hospital, Patrick said she went because she'd basically gone 48 hours without sleeping. She was having heart palpitations. So 48 hours without sleeping, heart palpitation. The prosecutor asks if he knew that she had taken a weed gummy,

and he said he didn't recall. This was a great moment, too, if we're speaking of punitive. She asked if he knew Lindsay didn't tell the hospital about the marijuana. And he said he wasn't with her because she drove herself there and drove herself home. I think they were trying to also get the jury shocked about the weed gummy. I don't know. I think it depends on the region how the jury is going to be shocked by that. But she really drove home, the weed gummy.

Then they started discussing what life looked like between September and November. Patrick said they were still doing family activities. Halloween, food truck events, a November event with trains for the kids. The prosecutor showed photos of Lindsay with the kids at. these events. And here's what I'll say about the photos. Every time photos were shown, many of the jurors would actually glance at them, but they would really, they would mostly look at Lindsay, almost like they were trying to see what her reaction was. It was interesting. And so you understand, Lindsay has a giant screen in front of her, where all of these photos

they're putting on a large screen for the gallery to see, the media to see the juries had their screens, they're seeing the photos. And Lindsay has a screen right in front of her. Looking at these photos, looking at these home videos, her children's last days, the family she once had, the family she no longer has. And so the jury, a lot of them are taking notes, I want to point out to, the jury would look at the photos and then they quickly. They'd go look at Lindsay. Like I said, like they're trying to see what her reaction was. And then came Thanksgiving. Is this Lindsay here on the left? Yes. And are those your sisters in the photo with her? That's one of my sisters and my sister-in-law. Okay. And have they coordinated outfits

for the day? The shirts? Yeah, I think my sister did. What was Lindsay's demeanor that? She was in rough shape. Rough shape? Yeah. How so? She wasn't talking much. She had low energy. She was really depressed.

I just remember when she showed up, my sister-in-law gave her a big hug. And she was able to get through dinner, eat dinner with everyone? Yeah. Okay. She interacted with people. Is that correct? I would say very little, but to some degree, sure. And she took care of the kids with you while she was there?

We both took care of the kids together. So she pushes back on this moment. They stay home, according to Patrick. They get takeout because Lindsay isn't feeling well. The prosecutor is like, are you sure? You didn't do this? You didn't do a massage and all this fancy stuff. Really questioning Patrick on this idea that he took Lindsay out for her anniversary

that they went out and he was confident absolutely not they did not go out it was a moment the prosecution probably should really ironed this one out a little bit more because patrick was like no we absolutely did not we did not go out because lindsay was not feeling well so then the prosecutor showed him a photo the two right asked if it was from that night he's like no they had planned to go out but they canceled so then she asks about november 26th and getting a christmas tree she shows the photos of the family at the tree farm. Next comes the discussion of the medication Syracquil. So, prosecutor asks if Lindsay told Patrick that she was starting a new medication around December 6th, he does not remember the date, but he does remember Syracquil. He thought

that Lindsay has started it before December 6th. So prosecutor Sprague asks how Lindsay was physically after starting Syracquil. And Patrick's response was very clear, awful. He said it was awful. He said that was when her, quote, big spiral started after the Syracquil. She lost a lot of weight, became very depressed, had a really hard time. She asked if Lindsay described thoughts or feelings that she was actually dealing with. And here is what he said.

Take a listen. Yeah, she started to say she was suicidal. And was that in December of 2022? I think so, yeah. And when she told you she was suicidal, did you ask her if she had a plan on how to kill herself? Yes. And what was her response? She said no.

And did she ever mention a specific way or plan she had to kill herself to you? No. And at some point in time, did she tell you that this was the first time she had had suicidal thoughts? I don't know if she mentioned it was the first time or not. I just remember her saying she had them. Had you ever heard her say that to you before that she was having suicidal thoughts? No.

Did you own at that time a Surface Pro, a type of tablet that works as a laptop? Yeah. And who had access to that? laptop? We both did. You and Lindsay? Yeah. And going back to August 22nd, 22nd, 22nd, 22, did you click on a link on that Surface Pro that was titled Methods of Suicide? Not that I recall. And August 22nd, 2022, that was before Lindsay had been on any medications, as far as you know, correct? Correct. Going back to December, she's told you that she's having these thoughts.

What's your reaction when she tells you that she's having these suicidal thoughts? I just wanted to support her. I asked those questions back to her, and her mother was coming up pretty regularly anyway, so we let them know, and we just try to be supportive. She's telling Patrick she's having these intrusive thoughts. Patrick asks what they are. Lindsay describes thoughts of harming the kids or fears that something terrible might happen to them. He gives an example.

If Cora had a stomach ache, Lindsay would become convinced it was something catastrophic like a liver problem, just over a simple stomach ache. But yes, she tells them she has had thoughts of harming the kids. She also tells them she did not have. a specific plan. He asks if she found the thoughts disturbing, and she says, yes, I do. He said, she described them more as fears that something might happen to the kids rather than her doing something to them. He said she told him this a couple of times over a night or two in December. Patrick asks Lindsay if she felt she needed to be kept away from the kids. Lindsay said no, And then minutes later, Patrick explains that Lindsay would be making the children lunch and playing with them, getting them ready for bed.

And he stated it was confusing. And I want to point that out because that was a moment for me too. It was confusing because I know that there are a lot of opinions in what Patrick Clancy should or should not have done, what he should or should not have noticed. You know, I don't think he could have ever seen the end result, or else he would have probably done many things differently. sure. But to explain his confusion, I felt for him in that moment. It made sense. Here he is having a wife that he loves as known for nearly 10 years saying she has these intrusive thoughts that they're disturbing to her of harming the kids. He sort of equates them to her being worried something might happen to them, not that she would directly harm them herself. She doesn't have a plan.

she says she feel safe with them and then he sees her being a mother and being maternal and caring for them. It was confusing. And I think that's fair to understand that Patrick was confused. He didn't know what to do or what not to do, whether he should go on errands that fateful night or not. So Lindsay says that she's not harming the children, but she was having these thoughts. And he says, I never saw Lindsay harm the kids. That's in quotes. I never saw Lindsay harm the kids. The prosecutor asks Patrick if he suggested an appointment with a nurse practitioner, nurse practitioner Jolotta, to be more specific, because of these statements. Patrick said, no, that appointment was already set up because they had been at Lindsay's parents' house for

Thanksgiving, and Lindsay had told him that she actually felt addicted to her medications. He said she thought she was addicted to the benzodiazepines, and she was also taking Syracquil, maybe Trazidone, or Remeron. And then the prosecutor asks if he remembered previously testifying that he called her parents to come stay with them and asked Lindsay who her doctor was because he was very concerned. Patrick had previously testified that Lindsay was prescribed 10 different medications. in just over two months, and he said it didn't make any sense to him. He said after her parents came up, Lindsay told him she had a remote meeting with Jolada and he told her, quote, no, it has to be in

person. He said he felt like there was this like disconnect. They needed to sit down face to face and figure out what was going on. He said most of her telehealth appointments seemed quick with not a lot of attention. He was present for only a few of those telehealth visits, and those were in the, after the in-person appointment with Jolada on December 6th, 2022. So the intrusive thoughts about harming the kids happened after Thanksgiving, but before December 6th. The prosecutor asked if Patrick was concerned for the kid's safety at that time. Patrick said no, because Lindsay wasn't showing any intention of harming them. And Lindsay told him she did not have a plan. Then they moved to December 15th, 2022. Lindsay went to the emergency department at Mass General. Patrick said, Lindsay told her father

that she wanted to commit suicide and then told Patrick, quote, I told my dad I want to die and it didn't bother me at all. He said he brought her to Mass General that day and Mass General doctors evaluated Lindsay. Patrick remembers one doctor recommending admission to McLean Hospital and two others recommending a day program. They gave information about the women and infants program in Providence. Lindsay was asked about her thoughts, her ideation. And Patrick said, he always asked her if she had a plan, but she never told him that she did have a plan. He said he wasn't sure what the doctors asked. After Mass General, Lindsay went to women and infants as scheduled. She didn't stay, though. She was only there for one day. Patrick dropped her off and took Dawson's scheme. Lindsay contacted him

later, saying the provider suggested she'd call him to pick her up and that he should come in to meet with them. He said the doctors told them the program was not right for Lindsay. So they went home. The prosecutor asked whether Lindsay was still working out at the Kingsbury Club during this time, exercising. Patrick said that might be true. He didn't recall exact dates, but he believed she went several times in December. The prosecutor pointed out that during this time, when Lindsay was saying that she had this ideation, she was no longer saying that she had thoughts of harming the children as well. Patrick confirms this. In testimony today, Lindsay was still taking the kids to the doctor's appointments, he explains. There was one doctor's appointment on December 2nd, one on December 27th, one on December 30th. He said, yes, she was able to drive the children to the appointments.

And then they moved to December 31st, New Year's Eve, back to Mass General. Patrick said that Lindsay was still talking about her ideation. He was exhausted. He told her he thought it was time to go to Mexico. McLean. They didn't have a diagnosis, and he hoped that McLean could evaluate her and figure out the best path forward for her mental health. The way to get to McLean was through Mass General's emergency department. The prosecutor asked if he knew Lindsay was taking selfies at the hospital that night. Asked Patrick, did you know Lindsay was taken selfies? Patrick said, no, he didn't know that. And then the prosecutor showed him a photo of Lindsay taking a selfie in the hospital hallway. Were you aware that that night while at the hospital, Lindsay was taking selfies? No. Can you exhibit me? Taking a selfie at the hospital, is that correct? Are you asking me? Yes.

Yeah, I can see that. And then the second page, just her legs in the doorway. Is that correct? Yep. So I don't know you, how you feel about the self. He's in the hospital, Patrick's expression there, like how he suddenly shakes his head. Seems like, in my opinion, he doesn't appreciate how the state is framing these things. I don't know.

There are oftentimes when I have been in sort of like the depths of despair, what I thought were the depths of despair. And I take a photo almost to remember, you know, the sadness. I don't know. I don't know what it is, a journal entry of sorts. Anyway, Lindsay was transferred to McLean at 3 a.m. on January 1st. Patrick said he wasn't able to stay with her during the transfer. He visited her two or three times during the five days. She was there. Visiting hours were limited, something like 2 to 6 p.m., maybe morning hours too, but not open access. He said Lindsay told him about her experience at McLean, and it didn't seem like she was getting much treatment. Patrick said by the third day, he asked what? the doctors had said, and she told him, she had met with the doctor yet. She arrived on a Saturday. Monday was an observed holiday. So she doesn't see a doctor allegedly until Tuesday. Until then, she was coloring, playing with clay and going for walks. But the prosecutor pushed back and

asked if Patrick knew that Lindsay was actually seen by a resident doctor in the first few days. And then in attending doctor on the third day, he said, no, he did not know that. Prosecutor asked if Patrick knew that Lindsay was seen by a licensed social worker, group therapist, and other mental health workers every day. Patrick said he didn't get updates. Prosecutor asked if Patrick knew Lindsay was offered one-on-one therapy daily, and Patrick said yes. Prosecutor asked if Patrick knew that Lindsay participated in group therapy on January 1st, New Year's Day, which was a 45-minute session on illness and symptom management. Patrick says that he knew that she did group activities, but not the details.

Prosecutor asked if Patrick knew that Lindsay did two group sessions on January 3rd, one on self-compassion, one on illness and symptom management. Patrick said no. Prosecutor asked if Patrick knew Lindsay declined further group therapy that afternoon and again, he said no. Prosecutor asked if Patrick knew that Lindsay did a medication management group on January 4th. No, Patrick did not know. Prosecutor asked if Patrick knew Lindsay did expressive therapy on January 5th.

No. Prosecutor asked if Patrick knew she had declined to her more sessions on January 5th, no. And then the prosecutor asks if Patrick knew that Lindsay asked to be discharged on January 6th, so that she could go to her daughter, Cora's birthday party on January 7th. Again, Cora's birthday was New Year's, or was Christmas Eve, and this is now January 7th. Patrick said that he did not recall this moment. So the prosecutor asked that there were any insurance issues, whether insurance refused to pay for Lindsay State. Patrick said, no. They never got to that point. And he added, in quotes, I wouldn't have cared either. I would have paid

for anything. It was a sad moment. Then the judge called for the afternoon recess. And when we all got back into the courtroom, we went straight back into Patrick's testimony about Lindsay's stay at McLeanhon. And Patrick confirms that Lindsay was discharged on January 5th, 2023, and he picked her up on that day. Again, according to the prosecution, the only reason she left was so she could attend her daughter, Cora's birthday party. Maybe she shouldn't have left, but she was discharged. Nonetheless, he picked her up that day on January 5th. Patrick also knew that Lindsay had a follow-up appointment with Dr. Tufts the very next day. And then the prosecutor switched gears.

She showed photos of the kids, how they looked in January 2023, so the month they were killed. We're all seeing this in the gallery. And she asked Patrick to describe each of his children that are no longer with us here. And at first, Kevin Reddington objected. This is the first time, actually, Kevin Reddington hasn't had many objections, honestly. For such a fiery opening statement, I thought that he might be like really objection heavy, but not at all. But at this moment, Kevin Redington objects, which was actually the only objection of the day. But here you go.

I want to show you some photos here of the children and just ask that this is a fair and accurate depiction of how they looked in January of 2020. Yes. Thank you. You could have the mark this one of the four exhibits. It may be marked. So I'm showing you this is CIPA, correct?

Can you tell us a little bit about what Coral was like in January of 2023, what our interests were? interests were. I'm going to object at this point. Counsel, can I see it? Sidebar. Sweet little core there in that photo. I stand corrected.

There was one other objection by Reddington today. It was actually the moment that Patrick was asked to identify Lindsay. He objected then. Patrick had pretty much already identified her, but that was his other

objection. Like really, do we really need to have Patrick identify the defendant in the room? Anyway, after the sidebar, Patrick talked about Cora loving princesses once again. This was sweet when he explained how his daughter, little Cora, had a lot of friends. She was nurturing. He explained Dawson as loving firefighters, trucks, paw patrol. Callana, eight months old, was just a happy baby. The prosecutor showed another photo to illustrate their sizes relative to each other at that time. And then she moved to Cora's birthday party on January 7th. Patrick said that he and Lindsay both organized it and it was held at Nova in Plymouth.

Lindsay got all the party supplies. The state played a video of the party with Cora sitting in front of Lindsay while everybody sing, Happy Birthday. It was a heartbreaking video to watch. Patrick confirmed it was from that day, the birthday part of. party from the birthday party up until January 23rd, Patrick said. So January 7th to January 23rd, Patrick said that he checked in with Lindsay every day. He asked how she slept, how she felt, and she told him that she was sleeping a little better, but still struggling. He asked if she had

the ideation, but she said no. Patrick asked Lindsay if she had thoughts of harming the children, and again, she said no. So on January 8th, The whole family went to the Museum of Science. Lindsay was able to participate in activities with the kids, like in exhibits that required sort of like playing with knobs or, you know, exhibits that the children could play with. She participated with them. She showed them how things worked. Patrick said Lindsay was always able to interact with the kids, including that day. They showed photos and video clips from the museum.

Patrick pointed everybody out. Dawson in the Maroon. shirt, Kora in the red skirt, Lindsay in the gray jacket, pushing the stroller, Patrick himself behind them. And then after the museum, they went to the Charlie Horse restaurant, a family place with games. Patrick said that Lindsay's demeanor was good, and he was actually hopeful because she seemed much better. On January 14th, Patrick went to brunch with friends while Lindsay stayed home with the kids. He was gone about two hours. There were no issues. according to Patrick. Lindsay encouraged Patrick to go because he had been inside a lot.

She sent him photos and texts while he was out. And then on January 15th, they went to the Cape Codder Resort, which is a water park. Patrick said that Lindsay's demeanor seemed pretty good there too. She interacted with the kids and participated in activities. They showed photos of Lindsay in a black bathing suit holding Callan, Cora and her striped swimsuit Dawson and his. They played video clips of Lindsay going down the slide with Cora and Lindsay with Callan in the pool area. He said that he was comfortable with Lindsay being off in a separate area with Callan while he was with the other older two. That's how comfortable he was with things. 1625 that Corra and then Lindsay that go down the slide together.

Yeah. That's the same thing here. Yeah. So she's able to interact with Cora and the others participate in the activities. Yeah. If we could go to 4753, please. You're up in the corner here. It's this you and Dawson and Kor entering the pool area?

Yeah. Lindsay was with Callen at that time, correct? Yes. So you were comfortable with her being off in a separate area with Callan while you were with Corr and Dawson that day? Yeah. So on January 16th, Patrick went skiing with Cora, and he explains even with Cora and another dad, Adam, Adam's son. Lindsay stays home with Callan and Dawson.

Again, according to Patrick, no issues. Lindsay communicated with him throughout the day through texts and some calls. She actually sent photos of Dawson at home and a selfie of herself with Callan. Patrick said that she seemed to be doing better, meaning her mood, her activity level, and her ability to participate in things was still going, and Patrick was able to send a photograph of him with Cora while skiing. She was also going to the gym during this time, and he said that he was very hopeful for her.

Lindsay's parents visited the weekend of January 21st through January 22nd. Patrick thought it was their idea, just coming to say hi. They hung out. They went out to a family. named the Carney's house, right? And so on Sunday, they all go for dinner at another family's house. Lindsay Patrick Dawson and Cora, they roasted marshmallows by a fire. Lindsay was quieter that day, though. Patrick noticed, but she did interact at this dinner. Her parents left afterward. The prosecutor showed a photo of Lindsay and her mom from that weekend. He said that overall,

Lindsay seemed to be doing better. He later learned that her mother had texted her something like, quote, I'm glad you're doing so much better. Then they moved to Monday, January 23rd, the day before everything happened. Cora and Dawson, they go to school. Lindsay picks them up. She tells Patrick that Cora's having stomach issues at school. And he said that he was familiar with that because Cora was embarrassed to go to the bathroom at school.

So she was holding it. Constipation. It wasn't unusual, though. Patrick was asked whether he knew that Cora had her five-year physical, her her annual doctor's appointment scheduled for the next day, Tuesday, January 24th. And he said, no, he didn't realize it had already been scheduled. He thought that Lindsay had just called it in that morning and that she usually handled those kinds of appointments.

And then they get to January 24th, 2023, that fateful day, the day that everything happened. And as we finally get to January 24th, I think all of us in the gallery are just like holding our breaths. Like, this is it. Patrick Clancy's on the stand testifying. Lindsay Clancy is here in her wheelchair, January 24th. Patrick says that he's working that day.

Cora's doctor's appointment. It's at 8 a.m. Lindsay takes her, okay? She drives herself and Cora. Nobody, no one else goes. Nobody else goes. It's just Lindsay and Cora. And while Lindsay is at the doctors with Cora,

Patrick is texting. sending photos back and forth. So he sends Lindsay a picture of Dawson because Dawson hits a milestone this day, this fateful day. Dawson had dressed himself completely for the first time, and he was excited. So a picture was sent to Lindsay from Patrick. Lindsay responds with a photo of Cora in her little mask at the doctor's office and a little hospital gown too. The state showed the photos. We saw them there. He said that Lindsay understood his text and he understood hers. There was no confusion. There was no odd phrasing in the text, no warning signs, nothing distressful. She gets home around 8.30 a.m. after the doctors. Patrick went downstairs to the basement to work in his basement office. Lindsay and the kids, they go out and they build that. That's snowman. It's a January day in Massachusetts. She takes photos of them building the snowman. They do art projects. Patrick knows this because Lindsay's texting him photographs.

So he comes upstairs once or twice because it was a busier workday than usual this January 24th. And each time he comes upstairs, Lindsay seems happy. She's playing with the children. and she seems like she is in a good mood. Patrick says she does not mention her ideation or thoughts of harming anyone. She doesn't ask him for any help. He says, quote, she's having one of her best days, end quote. And then came the dinner text, Lindsay asks, quote, Any chance you want to do takeout from 3V.

I didn't cook anything. It's been a long day. Patrick says yes. They've been to 3B before about three times, but never for takeout. Their usual takeout spots are closer. Lindsay suggests 3B Patrick agrees. At 4.56 p.m. She texts Patrick asking him to look at the menu. At 506, he asked if Callan had taken a nap. Lindsay said it was a shorter nap and he was awake. Callan was awake. Patrick asks what she was getting. at 3V for takeout. Lindsay says she's chosen the Mediterranean Power Bowl.

He says he wants the scallop and pork belly risotto. It's one of those memories when you realize it that you should never remember, right? What you ordered on a particular day for dinner because it's such an ordinary mundane day. But ultimately, we know what happens and Patrick's going to run through this day for the rest of his life. And so he knows that he wanted the scallop and pork belly risotto. Lindsay calls in the order. Patrick comes upstairs and he takes Callan for a minute. He's rocking Callan on his knees.

This picture that he's painting, I'm listening in the courtroom, feeling so much, knowing what's about to happen. So Patrick comes upstairs after saying, you know what, I want the risotto. he's rocking his little baby on his knees. He kisses Kora on the head, and then he tells his babies that he will be right back. Dawson, he's eating chicken nuggets out of a bowl on the couch. The prosecutor asks where Lindsay is standing when he leaves. Patrick says, Lindsay's standing in the doorway of the living room, the doorway by the basement door. She's holding Callan.

Her demeanor, according to Patrick, is normal. It's calm. It's ordinary. And then that is where the judge ended the day. At that moment, he's just kissed Cora. He holds baby Callan, and he tells them he will be right back. The jury's dismissed, and there is no court tomorrow. So the jury is dismissed until Wednesday morning.

The judge reminds the jury not to research or talk about this case. This is not a sequestered jury. And after everything they just heard, they now have a day off. And they're not supposed to look at any media, talk about the case with anyone at all. I have to say, seeing them end on that note, it made me feel so much for power. Patrick Clancy. So if you think about it, this man has lost his entire family in one hour. He lost this entire family in an hour. He lost the kids by death, Lindsay, because of her actions. He has since moved away from this area. He lives hours away in another state now. So no one could imagine,

no one can imagine how he must have mentally prepared to come back to this place where trauma and grief reside Plymouth, Massachusetts. Plymouth, you know, it's a place of tradition. That's what I said at the beginning of this. Hear ye, hear ye, hear ye. It's a place of tradition where Puritan tradition and pride reside. But for Patrick Clancy, it's a place where he has to return to remember this pain. pain to testify about the worst day of his life, a day that changed his life from absolutely

ordinary, from ordering risotto, from a familiar humdrum of routine family life, and in an instant his life, it becomes this unimaginable grief. And now he's here. In this courtroom, we're all watching him. The world is watching him. I'm watching him in the courtroom. Many of you are watching on the live feed with cameras. and he's being questioned for hours.

He's being shown videos and photos of his baby's last days while facing his ex-wife, only for the judge to stop at the point of questioning where he was around 30 minutes away from walking into complete devastation, an absolute nightmare. And Patrick is now told he has to return on Wednesday, not tomorrow morning, but two days from now.

out. So we're left with him kissing Kor on the head and rocking baby Callan and telling his little's that he'll be right back looking over and seeing his little three-year-old toddler who had just known to dress himself that day eating his chicken nuggets on the couch. Left for such a picture of heartbreak because we all know at this moment what's going to happen next even though Patrick at this moment in 2023 had no idea. We're hearing the story and we know. I also understand why the judge stopped it at this point. I'm not, I'm not chastising the judge in any way.

I think the judge knew exactly what he was doing. The day was coming closer to an end and Patrick was about to get into that moment of returning home, you know, that nightmare. So I get it. The judge is like, hey, yo, let's stop. this now, right? I get it. Totally get it. But it's just so sad. I thought maybe Patrick would have to testify for one day and then be able to return to New York where he's living. But no, who knows how long he will be here because it's slow. And of course, he will have to testify for the defense as well.

this trial, I want to point something out. This trial is affecting a lot of people. I know there's some people, I'll be honest, there's some people that don't want to follow this trial because some people have said that trials are easier to follow and they can want avert a guiltier and isn't where they really dislike the defendant, right? And a lot of people, it's just sad in there. It's a really heavy, sad trial.

No one wins, right? in Windsor, it's just so sad. And so it's a hard trial to cover, but I also think it's a really important one. And it's really important for hidden true crime to cover it. I know that we always talk about how we cover cases where we feel we can bring value to it. And I think in a case like this where we can question some of our own thoughts and opinions and stay open and listen is important. And of course, my co-host, Dr. John Matthias, criminal psychologist, will be on here to assess with us as we follow this trial along the way. And he has discussed some elements of this already. We'll have the link to our playlist in the PIN comments as soon as I conclude this live, as well as we probably

should have pinned it in the chat. We'll do that. It's good to see so many of you in chat. Yeah. And I see also, and I value this, we value this, isn't true crime, I see also a lot of people who feel strongly about this case one way or the other. And we welcome those varying opinions. we want them here because I think that's what this case deserves. Honestly, this case deserves us, deserves for people to come in here and talk about this and to disagree with people respectfully, one another respectfully, and share our thoughts and opinions and to listen. So I'm trying to stay open.

I'm trying to listen. I like this comment from Katie. I just have no opinion. as of now, I am one of those people that has to hear it all before I can form one. Yeah, I think that's a good place to be. That's hidden to crime is the best place to be for that, honestly, because that's what I'm trying to do as well, is put my biases aside and listen. So there are questions here. I will take a few questions here. I'm looking at them. How is Lindsay reacting to Patrick? They didn't really show her when he was testifying. You know, Lindsay is crying a lot. I'm glad you asked that.

I wanted to share about that. Lindsay is emotional. At one point, we could hear, I'm several rows behind her, and you could actually hear her breathing as her shoulders, like, shook from behind. And as we were walking out for one break, I looked over and watched her, and her eyes were truly red wiping tears from her eyes. I think that one time was during Patrick's testimony. She is, I would say, going between sort of a flat affect and tears and emotions. I don't, I haven't seen like really anger or rage from her. Just simply sort of a flat affect meaning emotionless, completely just flat, emotionless, or tears and sadness and crying. So it's really, really sad. Is HTC staying for the whole trial? It is such a long one. It is a long one. So will we stay for

the whole trial? We will probably perhaps be coming and going. We don't know. We will certainly be here this week. And it also depends on all of you. Please subscribe. Thank you for hitting notifications if you value our independent journalism in the courtroom. And our reports let us know because we are deciding how much of the time we will spend in the courtroom and how much time we will be simply watching the trial, perhaps from home and reporting on it. But we felt it was really important to be here for opening statements and for this first week to see the evidence. Nico says, I live close to Duxbury. This case has been so heartbreaking.

Seeing opening statements today was sad. I too suffer from mental health, a working functioning woman that puts on a good face. Thank you for sharing that. It is very, very sad. I think not only has the court stipulated to Lindsay, meaning everybody agrees that Lindsay killed her children. Even Lindsay agrees to that. I think everybody agrees that she was suffering from mental health, both the prosecution and defense. Let's see what else. I'll find more questions. Thank you, HTC, for reporting the facts and doing so with compassion. Joe, this is the

saddest case. It absolutely is. It's just sad. How long do you predict this trial will last? a very long time, weeks and weeks and weeks. The prosecution is saying they literally have a witness list of 200 people. It's actually, it's crazy to me. And then when they were asked to reduce the number of witnesses, they said that that would mean one of the children would matter less because they couldn't bring justice to all three of them. I mean, this is looking to be a very, very long trial and a very sad trial. Do I think that Lindsay is heavily medicated right now? I think, think she could be. I think she could be. Her doctor is there. Her doctor is talking to her in the courtroom. When her parents leave for breaks, they're often standing next to a priest. I don't know how

they know one another or what that is about. Her parents are there. Thank you for the five hidden true crime gifted membership. I'm actually going to try to start doing membership lives here in Plymouth and continually now. Thank you. How was Lindsay when Pat was testifying? When Patrick was testifying, she was, she was sad. She was sad. She was weepy. And I think she was trying to hold it together. Again, not only was she listening to her ex-husband testify, she was seen right in front of her the photos and videos of all of her children and her family in the life she once had, including seeing herself walking. In person, Grace and Lauren, how did you view her injuries? In person, if you mean the photos,

they were horrific. If you mean, if we can actually see her scars on her, I cannot see them. I did not. I was not able to see them. But it certainly looked like an attempt at self-harm and a real one. What have I read on the jury so far? Any insight? A lot of note-taking. And I think that they are really trying to understand. Think about it. If they don't know about this case, Patrick Clancy hasn't necessarily given away, whether he's like pro-prosecution or pro-defense. He's simply answering the questions, right? They know that the two are divorced. They know this is what Lindsay did. I think they're actually trying to process a lot right now, the jurors are. Many of them, particularly the women, are taking notes. And they're listening and like I said, a lot of looking at Lindsay. A lot of

looking at Patrick, but looking right over at Lindsay, especially when they see photos of the babies. I think they're really just trying to understand her and her mindset. No, they did not offer a plea deal, and that was a disappointment to many. Because, again, they did stipulate to Lindsay. Lindsay is admitted to doing this. She says, I accept the responsibility. And Patrick has been stated as saying that he hoped for a plea deal in this case, and she was never offered one. it's something that she likely would have taken.

Let's see what else. Thank you. Kalu, a member for nearly 40 months. Thank you for your support. I know you support us over on patreon.com too. Patreon.com slash into Ukraine where we do additional behind the scenes episodes. Thank you for support. Thank you.

Thank you, Darding Creek. Anne, a member for 12 months, one of the very best true crime reporting. Thank you, Anne. We're always so appreciative of your support. Thank you for the gifted true crime memberships. Raven, I'm so glad you found it. She said, hello, new here, just recently found you. So glad to catch a life.

Thank you for being here. Please share and let everybody know that we are here. Trace on the case, our wonderful moderator. Hello, Trace. Trace says, you know it's okay to hate what she did. without hating her or thinking she's just bad. This is just a tragic story. Yeah, it is.

And there are going to be a lot of opinions. And again, we welcome those differing opinions. Thank you, everyone, for being respectful as we listen to the evidence and the testimony laid out so that we can try to understand, you know, what the jury is seeing and thinking and weighing the evidence together. All right. That is it. head to Patreon if you are interested in Patreon, head to Patreon.com slash Hidden 2

Two Crime over on Patreon.com slash Hidden 2 crime. That is where Dr. John and I post our behind the scenes episodes where we are just sitting raw, real Lauren and John talking at our kitchen table, sometimes with Grace and our producer as well about things that matter to us. And you never know where those conversations are going to lead. Trust me. And here for members only, I often do behind the scenes videos and lives. All right. I could hang here forever. It's been a while since I've done a live.

And so I'm like, oh, let's hang out. Let's chat. But we need some sleep because this is what happened to us. I live on Pacific time. I'm now on East Coast time. So last night I couldn't sleep. I didn't fall asleep until two because that's like what, you know, 11. where I live. So it's two. And then I wanted to be at the courthouse with Gracie at 630 because we

we knew it was going to be a long line. So we had to wake up at six, four hours of sleep. That's okay. Grateful, grateful for any sleep. We're going to crash. There's no court tomorrow. So we'll be working on many things tomorrow. Actually, hit subscribe, hit notifications because we might be sharing some additional things tomorrow, including a behind the scenes live. I'll share more later. And we will be back in court on Wednesday. So thank you, everyone. Thanks for following along. And again, Dr. John Matthias, criminal psychologist, also my husband, will be sharing his insights as we follow along.

All right. Thank you, everyone. We'll see you. Bye-bye.