Hidden True Crime - Inside Lindsay Clancy’s Phone: What She Searched & Texted Before the Killings | Trial Day 13

Episode Date: August 14, 2026

**This episode was recorded LIVE with minimal editing. Day 13 of the Lindsay Clancy trial brought jurors deep inside the digital evidence, including a shocking “Suicide Methods” webpage found in data extracted from a computer seized from the Clancy home—but the forensic examiner could not say who was actually using the computer when the page was accessed. Jurors also saw evidence recovered from Lindsay Clancy’s iPhone, including her searches about medications, bipolar disorder, psychosis and mental health, private texts with Patrick and her mother, family photographs and her phone activity in the hours before Cora, Dawson and Callan were attacked. Lauren Matthias breaks down the prosecution’s digital evidence, the defense’s challenges to what it actually proves, and new testimony from the lead investigator about the Clancy home, medications and the investigation into the deaths of the three Clancy children. Mint Mobile- Get your new wireless plan for just $15 a month at https://mintmobile.com/hidden; upfront payment required, taxes and fees extra. See https://mintmobile.com for details. About Hidden True Crime What started as a simple conversation at their dinner table became a captivating podcast. Join the dynamic duo of Dr. John Matthias, a criminal psychologist, and Lauren Matthias, an investigative journalist, as they delve into the psychological facets of unthinkable crimes every week. Their unique perspectives and in-depth analysis offer a fresh take on true crime storytelling. Thank you for your support through sponsorships, subscribing, listening, and becoming a Patreon member at⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Patreon.com/HiddenTrueCrime⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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to Lindsay Clancy trial, 13 days of the prosecution calling witnesses. 13 days. I want to start today with, in my opinion, one of the most important parts of evidence being submitted by the prosecution today, Lindsay's own words, her journal entry. Let's take a listen to this. I feel not as connected with Cal now. I think I sort of resent my other children because they prevent me from treating Cal like my first baby. And I know that's not fair to them.

I know that. I was feeling so depressed last evening when Corrin Dawson came home from school. I know her runs off on them so we had a pretty rough evening. I want to feel love and connection with all my kids. I'm also probably having a bit of an internal conflict because my whole life I wanted to have a lot of kids. I still don't want Cal to be our last, but I have a lot of feelings. figuring out what you do before I have another. Words from a mother who ended up killing all three of her children.

The first witness today was Kyle Paveo. He worked for the Massachusetts state police and has been in law enforcement for about 18 years total. He's currently serving as a sergeant out of the born barracks. But before that, he spent a few years in this cyber crime unit. He explained that the unit handles child exploitation cases along with forensic branch that dealt with all kinds of digital evidence. He holds certifications as a forensic computer examiner, forensic Mac examiner, cell bright, mobile examiner, and magnet digital video

examiner. He talked about Cell bright and magnet as companies that made specialized software used to pull and organize data from devices. Cell bright is mostly known for phones, while magnet leans more towards computers. Eventually, the question he moved to the Surface Pro seized from the Clancy home on Summer Street. And now we know that today is going to be about digital evidence. The prosecution is bringing it. It's always an interesting day when the digital forensic evidence in Cellbrite comes into play in trial. So he said that the device, this Surface Pro, was still.

seized and taken in 2023, but he did not examine the extraction of it until 2025. So last year. He described the extraction as a forensic image, basically a bit-for-bit copy of the computer's drive.

The whole point is to preserve the original data without alerting anything. And during his initial review, he had flagged an artifacts showing a visit to a website called Suicide Methods. And this website was accessed on August 23, 2022. Now, I'll just point out, we've heard about this website visit

earlier during Patrick Clancy's testimony. But now we're hearing about it again officially from the person who found it, extracted it. So when he was asked to revisit that portion of the data, this visit to this website, he went back to the artifact that he had tagged and set a window of 12 hours before and after the visit. So you could see what else happened. around the visit to this website. So he broke it down what an artifact meant. Essentially, every single piece of data on a device. Tagging just helps him find something again later.

And from there, he explained Chrome's databases, tables, how they saw browsing history, the database being the whole thing, like an Excel workbook, and each table acting like a sheet that tracks specific information. One table logged URLs, another tracked how the page was accessed. That's important.

Typed, linked, generated, or synced. Typed events could come from someone entering a word, pasting something into a search bar, or even Chrome auto-filling based on the first few letters being typed. Linked events came from clicking a hyperlink, so those are defined. So generated events were suggestions Chrome created on its own. And once he laid out all of that, he went through what he actually sought in the timeline. And the first thing that morning was a Facebook visit at 940 a.m. to an account with the username Lindsay 968.

So right after that, around 942, there was a Spotify search for Tom Hall, a musician. Tom Hall. Patrick mentioned him. was music. A couple minutes later, at 944, a song from The Search played. It's, that's how I got to Memphis, Tom Hall song. Within seconds of that, a Google search for Tom Hall appeared, which led to Tom Hall's Wikipedia page. Paveo used the way back machine to pull up what that Wikipedia page looked like around that time period. And on the page, you notice an anchor link that jumped straight to the death section of Tom Hall.

And once inside that section, there was a line describing a, quote, self-inflicted gunshot wound to the head. And that phrase was underlined. He said that that was a hyperlink, in other words. When asked whether someone had clicked it, he said, yes, that link led directly to the suicide methods page.

specifically a portion about the shooting of Tom Hall. So the suicide methods page was accessed at 9.45 a.m. that day in August 2020. He again used the wayback machine to show what the page looked like on there that date. And from there, he saw another hyperlink inside the page, one that led to a Wikipedia entry for the Grafton Bridge. That link had also been clicked at 9.48 a.m. shortly after the suicide methods page was opened. You couldn't say whether anything else happened in those few minutes, just that the hyperlink was clicked and a page loaded. He had also pulled up the Grafton Bridge page through the way back machine to show what it looked like at that time in 2020, August 2022. And the last thing he clarified was that he could only see what the computer did, not who was sitting in front of the computer, right?

It's always like that, right? who is accessing it? There are two adults living in this house. During cross-examination, and I want to remind you all that during Patrick Clancy's testimony, he stated having an interest in Tom Hall and listening to his music for a period of time in 2022. So while we don't know who accessed it, the defense is kind of laid out who most likely did. Anyway, Reddington, so he's cross-examining, so he takes him back through the basics. that all of this activity came from August 23rd, 2022,

and that Paveo was working in the cybercrime unit then. So he asked him, who directed the work, whether it came from the DA's office or the state police detective unit. At Paveo, he actually explained that the unit was statewide and independent and requests could come from either direction. So Reddington, he focused heavily on the surface pro, pointing out that the third. The surface probe belonged to Patrick and asked whether Paveo knew that it had been located inside

Patrick's office. So Paveo didn't know where it was located. He explained that he never handled the physical device, only the forensic images that he was given from the device. So his job was to load those images onto the software, run searches based on the warrant, tag anything relevant. So then Reddington tries to pin down what search terms were used. suicide, drugs, anything else.

And Paveo didn't recall the full list, only that they were spelled out in the warrant. He confirmed that the Facebook visit at 9.40 a.m. was the first artifact he tagged, and that the page accessed was the homepage for Lindsay's account. Okay, that would maybe imply Lindsay, who's using it, right? At one point, Reddington pointed out two earlier entries, a CNBC visit and a Gmail inbox.

Those were not in Paveo's report because he only tagged items he considered evidence. So we didn't know whose Gmail that was. That's a disappointment. That could tell us a lot. Was it Patrick's or was it Lindsay's? But we don't know. Reddington went through the timeline again. So you have Facebook at 940 Lindsay's account.

Spotify. Tom Hall. Tom Hall's Wikipedia. The hyperlink to the suicide section. And then that jumped to the suicide methods page. He asked whether there were any searches for ways to kill. Pavelio said no. He also said he never saw anything indicating Lindsay or Patrick had searched for ways to kill themselves.

Take a listen. So then in October of 25, the district attorney's office asked you to conduct the search of the computer, apparently. Is that right? The trooper in the Plymouth State Police Detective Unit reached out. And that would be McElegan, right? No, it was not. Okay, do you know who it was? True, but Justin Paul.

Justin Paul? Correct. And as a result of that, you then went, prepared your report. And one of the things that you did is you noted that on August 23rd of 2022, at 940 and 08 seconds, that there was an access to the Lindsay Facebook account, right? Oh, there was a visit to that page, correct. Right. And then that page continued on to look for Tom Hall and walking to Memphis or whatever in the songs, right? Yes.

On Spotify? Yeah, the song, yes, after that was a Spotify. And then the timeframe of that would be that you went and went to a hyperlink that took them to methods of suicide. Is that correct? That is correct. Now, were there any searches on that computer, for example, ways to kill? No, there was not. To your knowledge, and I understand that you might be stuck with what you investigated,

but are you aware that there were any searches from Lindsay Clancy or Patrick Camp Clancy are ways to kill? You ever heard that? I, in my initial report back in October, that contains all of the evidence artifacts that I had tag this evidence and provided, I did not come across that, no. Right. So basically what you are leaving with the jury would be that on that date of August 23rd at approximately 940 in the morning and then carrying forward with jumping from Tom Hall to the Wikipedia account to the underlined name, suicide, jumping to that

page, that all occurred between 940 and say 10 o'clock in the morning, right? Correct. I too love that Kevin Reddington is holding a magnifying glass. It makes me feel like we're listening to Sherlock Holmes there. Anyway, let's take a quick break really quickly to hear from one of our trial sponsors who make covering these trials possible. We're so grateful for them and our partners. Take a listen. I feel like we've all gotten used to monthly bills, quietly creeping higher and higher. And then one day you actually look at what you're paying and think, wait, for my phone, that's what I like about the idea behind Mint Mobile. They took what's frustrating about wireless and they simplified it. So right now, all of Mint's plans are $15 a month, even unlimited.

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something new that patrick's email had signed in and looked at lindsay's facebook account that morning interesting so now they're saying it's patrick's email that signed in that looked at lindsay's account Paveo said he didn't know that. He also didn't know anything about the Clancy children or that Lindsay had taken one of them to the doctor around 10 a.m. that morning, which would be right around the time of these searches. He kept repeating that he could only speak to the data,

not who used the computer or what else was happening in the household. Did you know, sir, that on August 23rd, prior to your report indicating the Facebook account that Mr. Clancy signed in, and it was Mr. Clancy's email that accessed the Facebook account for Lindsay Clancy? I did not. And that was not included in your report, was it? No, it was not. And you know that the Clancy's had three children, right?

I did not. Well, you knew that you were working on a case where, Lindsay Clancy was the mother and she was married to Patrick Clancy, right? Correct. And did you know, sir, that August 23rd of 2022, that two-year-old child was brought by Lindsay to South Shore Health for Dawson's ear recheck, that he had problems with congestion, but no complaints of ear pain, no fever? and that was on August 23rd, 2002, that he was examined at 10.15 in the morning.

I'm not privy to those facts. So you don't know that Patrick Clancy's email signed into Lindsay Clancy's Facebook account. You're not aware of that, right? It's whatever the default profile was signed into the Chrome browser. And then that accessed the Facebook account, which looked up Tom Hall, the singer, right? Yes, correct. That then led to the Wikipedia talking about suicide. That is correct.

Led to the Spotify talking about somewhere in Memphis, whatever the song was, right? Yes. And this was all occurring from 9.40 in the morning until, like I said, 10 o'clock thereabouts, right? Correct. You tagged actual data from the Surface Pro as well as the HP laptop, right? I did. And your October report contains. searches from the Surface Pro, right?

Yes. And you recall, for example, it's just a representative sample that, and this would be on the Surface Pro computer. Now we're jumping ahead to December 5, not August of 22, December of 22. One of the inquiries of the Google searches

was what to do when a psychiatrist over-prescribed, right? Yes. Searches for medications, right? Yes. Including Lamectal, right? Correct. Can bipolar discharges? be temporary, right?

Yes. Can benzos reveal bipolar disorder, right? Yes. How long are detox programs, right? Yes. What is DBT? I'm just saying that's a search. I don't know.

Oh, yeah. I had to look that one up too. Okay. Lamatol versus Zolafi, but I would suggest it would be Zoloft. That was a search, right? Yes. What is mania? It was a search, right?

Yes. Ketamon for Benzo withdrawal, January 18th, of 2023 was a search, right? Yes. Ketamine therapy on January 18th of 2023, correct? Yes. Now, you know, maybe not personally,

but you know Steve Verino, who's also a gentleman who does what you do with computers and laptops and stuff, right? Yes. And you've worked on cases, and you know, Steve, you recognize it right here, right? Yes.

You know that Steve was working with me and Lindsay on accessing information from cell phones and computers. And he actually, through me, reached out about a month ago to the DA's office and raised some questions, correct? I'm not privy to that. Oh. Well, the DA reached out to you about a month ago and asked you to revisit your investigation. And as a result of that, you created another report, didn't you? I did.

And that would just be on July 26 of 26, right? Yes. And that was after DA reached out to you, but didn't tell you it was because we had questions that Mr. Barronow asked me to find out about, right? Yes, I was not privy to that. So as a result of dealing with the DA in July of 26, July 26 or 26, you then prepared your report, and the purpose of that report was to find out more details if you could pertaining to the, quote, methods of suicide page, right? Correct. And in your July 26 report, you then went into detail about your findings, correct? Yes. And we would agree that that particular webpage was not a search for methods of suicide. It was actually the Tom Hall and the music, right?

That is correct. And then the URL shows access to Lindsay's Facebook profile, correct? There was you accessed and found out that Lindsay's Facebook profile was a web file. was a web visit right yes correct but you don't know that it was lindsay that was actually using that that computer to search for tom hall right i don't know who was sitting behind that you don't know that patrick clancy plays a guitar do you i do not you don't know that patrick clancy is a music aficionado right i do not you don't know that patrick clancy enjoyed tom hall music do you i do not know that and you certainly don't want to leave it with this jury that lindsay was looking up ways to commit suicide

in August of 22, do you? All I'm presenting is the facts that were presented in front of me. A couple more questions, sir. When I use the logs into their Facebook, their own Facebook account, it doesn't populate or bring you directly to the actual profile page. It brings you to the home page, right, that shows your followers and things like that. I think so I don't have Facebook or social media, so maybe. I don't have social media, maybe.

Anyway, during redirect, Sprigg reminded the job. that everything Paveo examined was from August 23rd, 2020, not 2023. It was interesting that she had to clarify that. Yes, before the killings, not after. She also pointed out that the Grafton Bridge page was accessed at 948 a.m. And not 10 a.m. She mentioned that the drive from the Clancy home to the pediatrics office was only about four minutes.

So this idea, she's trying to affect the alibi here, that it could have been Lindsay's searching this, not Patrick, because even if there was a 10 a.m. appointment, it's only four minutes from the house. So Paveo said he didn't know anything about the doctor's visit or who was using the computer at any given moment. Again, we don't know if it's Lindsay or Patrick. And then Reddington came back up again. He's like, all right, hold my beer. Here I come again. So he tried to tie the computer activity to the timing of the doctor's appointment, suggesting that really like getting a toddler ready for the doctor's appointment would also take time. It's not just the four minute dry. Solid point. Veo repeated that he wasn't aware of any of that and couldn't speak to it.

Again. Just for clarification, before when I was doing direct, if at any point I said August 23rd, 2023, what you did when you did the way back machine was searches for around the time period of August 22nd, 2022, correct? Correct. And anything that you looked at that day regarding the search for suicide methods or any other places that were visited were August 23rd, 2020, correct? Correct, 2020. And the visit to the Grafton Bridge Wikipedia page was at 9.48 a.m., correct, not 10 a.m. That visit was at 948, correct. Okay. And defense counsel asked you about the defendant being at the doctors at 10.15 a.m. Are you aware that it only takes four minutes to drive from her home at 47

Duxbury's, 47 Summer Street in Duxbury to the Kingston location of the pediatrics? I was not, and I also wasn't aware that they went to the doctors. And you can't tell us who was behind the computer at different times, correct? No. You can't tell us whether people use the computer, then got up and let someone else use it, and then went back to using it, correct? No, if you cannot. You can only show us the data that you observed that day, correct?

That is it. Yes. Okay. Thank you. So what has been marked for P for identification, which would constitute the health information records from the South Shore health, pertinent to the child, you're aware, sir, that the records, or you're aware, sir, you're not aware, that the child was brought to the doctor, not at 1015, but was brought to the doctors around 10 o'clock in the morning.

I'm not aware of any of that. And did you know how old the child was? Sir, my testimony is related to the- So you don't? I do not. Okay. So is it fair to say, sir, that, I mean, from your life experience, that when someone has to bring a child, a young baby to a doctor,

you've got to get them dressed, you've got to feed them, you've got to get in the car, you've got to drive. and that's the four-minute ride as well, right? I'm not privy to any of that information. Anything further? No. Thank you, sir. So after that, he was excused, and the next witness on the stand was Timothy Chiappini,

and he worked for the Massachusetts State Police and had been with the department since 2012. In early 2023, he was assigned to the state police detective unit for Plymouth County. Right now, he is a commander of the critical. incident technical investigations team. Yeah, that's a mouthful. But it sounds important. He's specialized training in cell phone, forensics, certifications through Cellbrite, training in Graykey.

Those are those should, Cellbrite and Graykey show up in every trial I go to. So he's trained in this. He has a familiarity with Magnet's Axiom software as well. So when asked to explain Cellbride, he described it as a tool used to access and extract data from mobile devices, along with software that helped analyze the data.

He had been asked to perform a forensic analysis on Lindsay Clancy's iPhone in 2023. So he said he did an advanced logical extraction, essentially an iTunes-style backup. It captures everything a user can see on their phone, photos, calls, text, browser history, all of it. The extraction creates a hash value, which he describes as a digital fingerprint. that verifies the data has not been altered. The Chiappini went deeper into how the extraction worked. He explained that the hash value acted like a digital fingerprint. If even one bit of the data changed, the hash would change.

And the extraction would no longer be valid. So he checked the hash in the case and confirmed it matched, meaning the copy was exact. He also made it clear that he couldn't alter anything inside the extraction. Filters did help him organize data, but nothing could be changed without breaking the hash. The software automatically sorted everything into categories. And these categories, like everything from photos, videos, messages, Instagram communications, iMessages, on and on, anything that you can get from your phone, browser artifacts.

He said he performed the most comprehensive extraction available at the time, but newer tools might be able to pull even more data today. He had been asked to generate reports covering specific time periods, and one of them focused on November through December 2022. And when Sprague pulled it up, he went through the columns, type, direction, attachments, location, timestamp, party, description, source file. Each column came from how Selbright broke down the phone's databases.

Activity-sensitive data came from the phone's health database. Direction showed whether a call or message was incoming or outgoing. Attachments, flagged photos, or files inside messages. Location populated when the data source included coordinates. Time stamps reflected the phone's time zone. Party listed the people involved in a text. text threat, either one person or an entire group chat. Description came to the database itself, and the source file showed which part of the phone the data originated from. He explained that the

contact names and that report actually came from whatever the user had saved in their phone. So if someone labeled a number as mom, that's what would show up. Sprigg demonstrated how he searched the PDF, and when she typed McLean, the document pulled up four entries. One of them was a text from Lindsay to someone named Allison at 257 p.m. saying, quote, more of a general depression, mental health program like at McLean Hospital, end quote. He confirmed that the message was ongoing, excuse me, the message was outgoing, and that the phone number and contact name came straight from Lindsay's device. Another report covered documents downloaded to the phone.

One of them was a medical leave form. He explained that clicking the hyperlink in the report opened the actual file that had been saved on the device. The separate timeline report covered late December 2022 through January, 2023. The first item in that window was a calendar entry. And later in the report, Sprague pointed out web browsing artifacts with two search that said, quote, can you treat a sociopath? End quote.

He clarified that the software sometimes categorized the same action in multiple places. So if two entries had the exact same timestamp down to the second, it was one search, not two. And then they moved to the notes found on Lindsay's phone. Oh boy. And the report showed a long internal note with the last modified date of the last modified date of November 3rd. He explained that the tool only captured the final modification not every change made along the way. He could not tell how many times the note had been edited or what parts had

changed. Sprigg asked him to read one of the entries dated October 25th. I'm sad and depressed because I am not able to parent my third child like my first. I want to treat any one of my babies like my first, but I know that's not a feasible possibility. I'm sad that I stopped breastfeeding. I feel not as connected with Cal now. I think I sort of resent my other children because they prevent me from treating Cal like my first baby, and I know that's not fair to them. I know that. I was feeling so depressed last evening when Corrin Dawson came home from school. I know her runs off on them, so we had a pretty rough evening. I want to feel love and connection with all my kids. I'm also probably having a bit an internal conflict because my whole life I wanted to have a lot of kids. I still don't want

Cal to be our last, but I have a lot of figuring out to do before I have another. I'm on the fence about starting a new medication for anxiety slash depression. I just want to feel happy. I want to be able to relax and take care of my kids. And when they go to bed at night, I want to deeply relax and hang out with Pat and then fall into a deep sleep for eight hours, get up and pour hard into myself for an hour and a half. Cal was so very planned and desired. I want to be able to give him all the love he deserves. I guess that's what it's like to be the third child, though. He's not the first third child to ever exist. I think I know he'll be okay, but it's really hard for me. I hate that he has to put himself to sleep. I'm sad I'm not breastfeeding

anymore, but I think deep down these are the right choices. As with the sleep training, I needed a baby that slept through the night because I simply do not have the opportunity in my life to catch up on sleep. I just don't. If there was a time for me to nap every day, then that may not have been the case, but there really isn't. When Cal maps, I have to take care of Corrin Dawson. That's just how it is. It feels cruel to me that we did not do that to Cal, but the reality is we did what we had to do. I guess I also feel slightly traumatized by the sleep training, but that feeling was only really present when I was severely sleep deprived and paranoid. I know what we did was the right thing and okay. As for the breastfeeding, it kind of goes hand in hand with a sleep training. Once he started

sleeping most of the night, it was then a daily struggle to keep up my milk supply. I was having to take a ton of supplements and constantly think about eating and drinking enough to keep the supply up. And then I was having to think about pumping extra to keep it up. And that was really hard to do with Cor and Dawson around. When I tried to leave Cal to go out with Corrin Dawson, I was stressed about the pumping and not to mention the fact that Cal was at home and not taking a bottle. So it was a battle of if I should pump or not. I know I did the right thing because I need to be able to leave Cal with someone and get fed. As much as I don't want to leave him, I need to be able to.

I need to be able to be present with my other kids. I still really, really want a fourth child, but I need a really good therapist before then. I'm on the fence about starting a new met or not. I want to feel happy, but it would be nice to feel authentically. happy and not fake, but I need to feel happier than I did last evening because then I was pretty depressed and not enjoying any of my children. It was really sad. I needed the breastfeeding off of my plate. I'm struggling so hard because I wanted to parent each of my kids like my first, and since I can't, that's depressing to me. This is definitely the root cause of all our problems.

Now I feel like I'm not parenting any of my kids the way I want to, and that makes me sad too, but I'm going to try my best today. things I love doing that help me love and appreciate and enjoy my kids or activities with them. I definitely started having some depression after Cora, but once I started getting up and out with her, I felt much better. I think signing Cattle Up for baby music class would be a great thing. Maybe Fridays can be my day with him. I've just fallen out of the habit of doing anything fun, anything for myself, anything with Pat,

and I need to work on that. On a positive note, I had a great deep night of sleep. I'm terrified of something happening to my kids or doing something wrong to mess up their development. Our generation is inundated with information about every aspect of parenting and everything that go wrong if you don't get it right. And all the scary things happening in the world, it's insane. For the last five years, I've just filled my mind with all things parenting and it's just unhealthy. Thank you. And so everything that you just read would have been written and filled in by the user, correct?

Correct. If we could go to the next one. And this note, it says it was created December 22nd, 2022. Then it was modified on January 23rd, correct? Yes. And this note here, again, we don't know how many times it was modified. You just know the last date is modified, correct?

That's correct. And you don't know what was changed in the note. You just know that something was. Correct. If we could go to the next one. Now, in this report, we're seeing some photographs. Is that correct? Yes.

And why did you flag these photographs? The photographs had multiple modification dates relevant to the investigation. How so? The photographs have created, modified an access date that are all the same. However, the metadata indicates a much earlier time. What is metadata? Metadata is data about data. An image is data.

With the cell write for its physical analyzer tool, you're able to see the data about, in this case, an image. Metadata would be the device used to capture the image. It would be potentially based on the user settings, location data associated when the image, where the image was when it was taken, excuse me, where the device was when the image was taken. A lot of times it'll tell the size of the image or the type of image file that it is. So as we're talking photographs, he points out that the photo on the screen was a JPEG,

meaning it had been saved, right, to the new photo. The capture time shows us that the photo was originally taken when it was. and it shows that the created and modified dates show when it had been altered. He says that he could make inferences about how a photo had been changed. You can see that it was cropped. You can see that there's writing on it or converting a live photo into a still image. You can see that too. He explained how iPhones store live photos as heck files

and how modifying one could create a new JPEG version. He said that many of the children's photos have been asked. accessed and changed during the evening of January 23rd, 2023. It's interesting. Another timeline report covered January 24th from 4 p.m. to 8 p.m. He said it captured everything the forensic tool detected during that window. And when they zoomed in on the 430 to 435 range, Sprigg asked him to search for Miralax. and he found a search at 4.46 p.m. for Mirlax for kids.

The same timestamp appeared multiple times, which he explained was just the software categorizing the same action in different places. And then they looked for another search, the 3V restaurant menu. Again, the same timestamp repeated across categories. He confirmed it was one search, not several. Then Apple Maps came up next at 4.13 p.m.

the phone had looked up the 3B restaurant, and he explained that Apple Maps would show a route preview and estimate travel time based on traffic. That estimate would change depending on the time of day. At 4.47 p.m., the phone visited the CVS website. Moments later, an outgoing call was placed to the CVS in Kingston. He confirmed the number matched the store. And then they moved into the text messages, between Lindsay and Patrick at five, excuse me, this is important. So the messages between Lindsay and Patrick, 4.53 p.m. on this horrific day. She texts him, quote, Any chance you want to do takeout from 3B. I didn't cook anything. It's been a long day, end quote. He replied, yeah. She answered, okay, dokey. And a few minutes later,

they exchanged messages about the kids waking up from a net. app and what she was planning on order to order and checking the menu. At 5.06 p.m., the phone showed two searches at the exact same second, one for the 3B menu and one for Pedialite. He explained that this likely meant multiple tabs were open, which is normal. Dude, my computer has like 15 tabs open at the same time. Anyway, they scroll down to more web artifacts. One showed the 3V menu in Safari's history, another showed cookies from the right. restaurant's website. He explained that cookies were small pieces of data websites stored on a device to improve load times or tracking browsing activity. Sprague pointed out another message at around

5.7 p.m. Lindsay sent Patrick, quote, Mediterranean Power Bowl. And minutes later, he replied with his own order, okay, I'll do scallop and pork belly risotto, end quote. As I always say, the meal that was never eaten. So sad. Right after that, the phone showed two calls, one at 509 p.m. And another at 510 p.m. And the first lasted 11 seconds. The second 47 seconds.

Chiappini didn't remember the details at the top of his head, but he did recognize the second number as belonging to the restaurant 3V. More searches popped up at 5.13 p.m. This time for PEDAX. Again, the timestamps were identical across categories, which he explained was just a software sorting the same action in different places. Take a listen. A message from Lindsay to Patrick at 515 p.m. which states PEDALX liquid stool softener, correct? Yes. And then at 147, we have 533.51 p.m. Is that a phone call from Patrick's phone to Lindsay's phone?

Yes. And that has zero in it for duration. Does that indicate the call wasn't answered? It would be an inference. And then going down to 150, we have an outborn call from the defendant's phone to Patrick Clancy for 14 seconds. at 5.34 p.m. correct? Yes. That means the call lasted approximately 14 seconds. Correct. And then the last item there, item 152,

that is an incoming call to the defendant's phone from Patrick Clancy, correct? Yes. And again, we have zeros here indicating that the call wasn't answering, correct? That's an inference, yes. I have these reports that I just went over submitted on this disk as the next. That may be admitted. Did you also, looking through the defendant's phone, access the information on the calendar portion of the phone? I did.

And the calendar portion of the phone, does that have different types of data, both populated by the phone itself and Apple, and then items populated by the user? Yes. Could you give us an example of something that would be populated by Apple and not the user? A national holiday such as Christmas Day would be populated by the operating system

through the application of calendar. And then if I'm using my phone and I'm putting in appointments or parties or things I'm going to, that would be something that the user is putting in to the calendar? Correct. And did you do a report of all the calendar activity for Lindsay Clancy's phone from August 4th,

2020 to January 31st, 2020. I did. I could have this marked this. That may be admitted. This break is this a good time to take the morning break? I just have one more exhibit to put in and then I would be done. That's fine. Did you, I'm sorry.

Thank you. Did you also do a report on all the text messages between the defendant's phone and an individual that had been labeled Mommy? Yes. And was that for the month of January, 2023? I did. We moved to have these. I mean it is the next exhibit. All right.

That may be admitted. I have nothing further. All right. Well, after the morning recess, which is, what happened, cross-examination began, which, you know, cross-examination with Reddington is always fascinating. So, Reddington started by clarifying that Chiappini handled mobile devices, not computers, which is kind of an important distinction. He pointed out the Paveo handled the laptops while Chiappini worked solely on Lindsay's phone. He asked about the tools used,

Sell Brite for Chiappini and possibly axiom for another trooper, Trooper Rabbit. Chiappini said he did not recall Rabbit's extraction or whether it was a full-file system extraction, but he agreed that a full-file system would pull more data than in advanced logical extraction. Reddington pressed him on the timing. Chiappini's extraction was done on January 30th. While Rabbit was done on January 27th, Chiappini said he never. ever discussed the phone extraction with Rabbit,

and then they went back to Exhibit 237, the calendar report. The Reddington went through the entries again, confirming the August 23rd appointments for Callan's vaccine and Dawson's earcheck. Then Redington pulled up another document, the screenshot from the axiom extraction. Chiapini wasn't certified in Axiom, but said he understood what the screenshot showed, and one of the entries displayed an email login of Patrick's,

Gmail account. Oh, so it's Patrick's Gmail account. Reddington suggested that meant it was Patrick's email that was signed into Lindsay's Facebook. Chiapini said he could not confirm that, though. Take a lesson. You can tell me... I recognize it as a screen capture

from an axiom phoning extraction. You did indicate you were axiom qualified, right? I'm not, sir. I'm familiar with the program as a result of my training for repeat. Magnifrenzics owns great key technology and in the training course for great key process extraction using axi but I'm not certified in the software of accident but you can interpret it you can understand what that shows you it's just a listing of different activities on the phone

right I'm aware of what the screen shot depicts yes all right can you tell me what's the highlighted one can you tell us what that is the date the time of what it's referencing you need a magnifies that reference is a website sir. And what's the website? Mail.govile.com. That mail, M-E-I-L, right? Yes, sir. Okay, does it indicate those mail it is?

Does it show it on the right, on the right-hand side of the box? I can't do to technically determine whose mailbox is okay. Trooper, I'm going to make sure you keep your voice up. Okay, sir. It's pretty much the same thing and the same date. Can you tell us on that page,

who signed in under what you? The artifact is indicating that there is a title with an email. What's the name? P-A-T-R-I-C-W dot C-L-A-N-C-Y at Gmail.com. So that's fair to say that that would be Patrick Clancy at g-mail.com. That's his email that's signed in on Lindsay's Facebook. I can't confirm that. Okay.

And when you were going through her phone, is it fair to say that, I mean, there wasn't much in her life that wasn't exposed to the state police and the DA's office and the investigators. I mean, your report initially was 180,000 pages of PDF, right? It was a very large download, sir. Does 180,000 sound about right? It does. So 180,000 pages on a PDF, you do a number of extractions, and then you get into the one that you were testifying. Mr. Attorney indicated, and you stated that it was 700 and 668 pages of text messages that she had, one with photographs, perhaps? That was a timeline search.

The number of items in that report are indicative only of the time frame, which I was utilizing within the software. Okay. So when you went through her phone, did you come across on a celebrating, report searching for where is the carotid artery I don't recall you come across like the easier this way this is a celebrate report on Lindsay's phone right now understanding you might not have been standing next to another cop going through the records and documents on her phone this you're able to recognize there as being the celebrate report right it is a celebrate report sir it's a celebrate report for her

phone you can tell by the numbers right this would help a little bit See this here where it talks about source file and it's got a number, a quadruple zero 811. 1090-90-925E and all the rest of them. That would be her phone, right? I don't have that number memorized. Of course not, but it would be in your report? Yes, sir.

Okay. All right, extraction, report? It would depend on the supplement report that you have, sir, whether or not that character was displayed. I don't know if you can help or not, because this is, We agree is Lindsay's cell phone celebrate extraction report. This item we have here, sir. No, no, I'm sorry.

This is the calendar supplemental report, yes. So what's the number? You must have a number that would connect to her phone, like an address, like your home address, but in fact it would be a number, right? It's a device identifier. It is not presented in this supplemental report. Okay.

Where would the device identifier be presented? to be presented. To be presented in the front page of the initial extraction report. Yes, there's $780,000 or whatever it is pages, right? You don't have that here. Certainly $180,000 page. You don't have that here, right? No, sir.

Excuse me, Your Honor. Did you bring your report today with you? Just the report, not all the exhibits? No, sir. So you would agree with me, sir, that one of the concerns as an investigator that you've had is things such as looking for best words like suicide, right? I'm not sure I understand the question. When you're looking on the target's phone, and out of this whole courtroom, the target would be Lindsay Plancy, right? Yes, sir.

All right? And you had access to her phone, right? Yes, sir. And you all went into it with a search warrant. Right? Yes, sir. You were looking for different topics such as suicide, drugs, killing kids, I imagine, to investigate, right? You had buzzwords. Yes, sir.

And did you come across, for example, a search that indicates carotid artery? I don't recall. Did you come across a search on Safari, how to slit your throat to die? I don't recall. Did you come across a search? Can you turn airbags off on Kia Sorrento? I don't recall. Did you know that she had a Kia Sorrento?

I did not. If I approach you with this celebrate report, sir, does that give you the numbers for what I just went through with these surgeons? The universal device identifier is a match. It isn't that, okay. Yes, between this document in my hand and the ones that you're holding.

So what's the first search on the first box? The value associated with the source file is corrobor lottery. And the next box? How'd you slit your throat to die. Box. Can you turn airbags off on Kia Sorrento? These all came from Lindsay's fault, right? I can't confirm that.

Well, it's a pretty good inference, right? Yes, sir. Reddington kept going through the exhibits one by one. He confirmed that the calendar report that already discussed was the same one the prosecutor used earlier, the one showing the August 23rd pediatric appointments, and then Reddington moved to the next exhibit, the text thread between Lindsay and her mother. So Tia Pini explained that this report was filtered to show only January 2023, the month, the children were killed, and that the green messages came from Lindsay's phone,

while the blue ones were from her mother. They started scrolling through the January messages. January 3rd, Lindsay told her mother, and she was anxious about meeting with the psychiatry team, and she was worried that they would not send her home soon. Reddington asked whether Chiapini knew what send me home meant, and he said he could only infer that she was in a medical facility, and McLean Hospital had been mentioned earlier in the case.

On January 8th, her mother asked that she had slept well. Lindsay replied, I actually did. Two days later, on January 10th, her mother checked in again asking how she was doing, whether she was still sleeping well and whether she felt better during the day. And Lindsay answered, so far a little bit. On January 12th, that showed another exchange. Her mother asking is she still felt a little better and Lindsay responding, quote, a little bit. And then on January 14th, Lindsay sent a longer message, saying that she was hanging in there and waiting for the day, I wake up and feel me, telling how she was feeling.

January 16th included a message from Lindsay saying, quote, it was fun. Cora and Dawson enjoyed. Reddington asked whether that referred to a trip to the Cape Cotter, but Chiappini said the message didn't specify. He moved ahead to January 18th, where her mother asked whether she had started a new medication. Lindsay said she had started at two nights earlier. Reddington said he did not need him to read the rest because the jurors would have the exhibit and can review it themselves. And from there, Reddington switched back to the searches that the state had asked about earlier, that the restaurant searches. So he went back to the searches that the state had asked about earlier. The restaurant searches, the Apple Maps were out, the menu, the CVS call.

Redington asked whether Chiappini remembered. Lindsay had taken the baby to the doctor earlier that day and whether Patrick had texted her afterward. Chiappini remembered the snowman photo she sent that afternoon, but did not recall the text where Patrick told her that she was a good mom. You're also prior to that on the same day that she had taken the baby to a doctor and that Pat texted her and asked basically, you know, how did it work out? Do you recall that? I recall the doctor's appointment. I don't recall the text. Do you recall that Lindsay sent a picture of her and her children taken that afternoon?

I recall the snowman photo. I'm sorry? I recall the snowman photo. Okay. And that was on the 24th. the January, right? It was, sir. You recall that Pat texted back and said something like, oh, wow, you're a good mom? Call that. I don't recall the text. Then Reddington moved into the medical searches. He listed off dozens of them. Bipolar symptoms, psychosis, D.K.A, Trazidon, Wobutrin, Ativan, Addiction, Prozac, Schizophrenia. Chiappini said he remembered those searches. Wow. Reddington kept going, asking about

which is for schizophrenia, psychosis, steriquil, suicide, sleep, trazodone, benzodia, wellbutrin, McLean, insomnia, ketamine, la mictal, post-pandemic depression, benzos bipolar clanasopan, adivine, antitryptylene, intrusive thoughts, hallucinations.

Chiapini read the timestamps for each one, most of them clustered between late December 2020 and January So then it goes back to one more Sellbrite report, the one showing Lindsay's search terms. Giappini confirmed it was a supplemental report pulled from her phone. The searches range from every day parenting things to medical concerns, pre-made goodie bags, children's motrin, Earth's best baby food, unicorn coloring pages, Paw Patrol, Cape Codder Resort, eight-month milestones, fluffy slime recipes, UTI symptoms in children,

Miralax for kids, CVS pharmacy, pedialax. He led them, he read them straight down the list, noting the dates. Most of them clustered

around late December and January. And then another exhibit showed text messages between Lindsay and Patrick. Chiapini recognized it as a supplemental report of their thread, their texting thread.

He walked through the messages from January 20, that day the children were killed, starting with Patrick sending her cutie at 8.19 a.m. And then she and then Lindsay loved an image that Patrick sent. And then Patrick asked how things were going. She said good. She told him Cora's urine looked fine and that her kidneys were okay. He responded with a smiley face.

She sent what looked like another blank message. He told her, oh, wow, you're a good mama. She replied with a heart smile. He laughed at an image. And then came the takeout conversation, right, with Lindsay asking if he wanted to do 3V because she hadn't cooked and it had been a long day. And he answered, yeah, and she answered,

OK-dokey. Reddington asked about the photo modifications that the prosecutor had brought up earlier. Chiappini explained again that the baby's photo had been edited in some way, possibly converting a live photo into a still image, right? He said that was the only modification he could determine from the extraction. So when he asked whether he knew the Clancy home had been filled with framed photos and albums, he said he wasn't involved in the search and he didn't know.

In other words, Redington suggesting that they're making these live photos, still images, so they can print them. redirect very brief. Brigg pointed to the fact that all of the searches Redington had introduced were already available in the larger Cellbrite reports searchable by keyword. She highlighted an example. And, well, that example was a search for psychosis symptoms. Psychosis symptoms.

And that was on January 19th. She also pointed to a text from Lindsay's mother on January 19th saying she'd bring something on Saturday, implying that she planned to visit. Another message from January 22nd, two days before the killings, showed her mother saying she enjoyed seeing everyone and that Lindsay seemed to be doing better. So Reddington came back one last time to confirm two more sets of messages, one between Lindsay and Patrick and another between Lindsay and her mother-in-law, Sue. Chiappini agreed both came from Lindsay. Lindsay's phone. And after that, the judge called for lunch recess. So by the way, I just want to bring that psychosis symptoms surge up. And I think it depends on what you're feeling right now with

evidence. If some of the jurors are thinking that this was meditated murder, premeditated murder, they could certainly look at Lindsay as trying to figure out what symptoms are psychosis. Or if you see her as a woman in the in the depths of postpartum depression wondering and worried about if she has psychosis that search can mean something completely different. I think it depends on I don't know what the jurors are thinking, but I think that some of them could be thinking either or. And after that, the judge called for recess. The last witness of the day was trooper Joshua McHilligan. Remember him? We heard from him yesterday. Well, he was he was laying foundation yesterday, but now he's back. Now he's back explaining why he's actually here. So McCalligan worked for the Massachusetts

State Police and had been with the department since 2013. In January, 2023, he was assigned for the Plymouth County DA's office as part of the homicide and major crime section. He explained that the case officer acted as the point person, gathering information from other troopers, coordinating with the DA's office, and keeping track of the investigation as it unfolded. Well, in January 24th, around 6.45 p.m., he learned about what was happening on Summer Street. He was called in. He contacted his supervisor before heading to Duxbury. He went first to the police station. He learned he was going to be the case officer. Later that night, obtained a search warrant. He went to the Clancy home.

He arrived early morning hours on January 25th, between 3 and 4 a.m. He didn't participate in the search itself. His role was to observe the scene. And the search, once the search was complete. So he eventually walked through the house. And when he entered the master bedroom, he remembered seeing a tent-style cover over a crib, a mere straight ahead, the bed to one side, the blood on the floor. And he said there was no blood spatter on the wall. Interesting.

A video was played of the scene for the jury. And he confirmed that it matched what he saw, just pointing out. where the blood was in the video. You can see, for those just listening, drops on the hardwood floor of the bedroom. Now the video is scanning the room and you can see more blood on the hardwood floor. Maybe like a larger kind of area of it. But it's true I'm not seeing any blood spatter on the walls. We're getting a full sort of 360 view of the bedroom.

just another 360 view and you see a tent that is set up. And then we now have a close-up of the blood that's on the hardwood floor that's more isolated, drops on the floor. So several drops, a lot. And I don't know how to explain that. More than several, but not like a pool. There's more. And you can see that it's between the bed, by the night.

nightstand a lot by the nightstand. And the knife is now on the nightstand. And you can see that there's a lot of blood on the nightstand. Knife is rather large and a lot of blood below the nightstand. And then you see that the window is right there. There's a close-up of the nightstand with the knife, a large kitchen knife and blood next to the knife. The window open, the curtains. opened as well. The window lifted up to sort of show how she crawled out. More blood on the nightstand and to the side of the nightstand with the knife there. Then another scan of the room.

It's just very sad. There's even a little child's rocker there. Her cell phone on the bed they're showing right there, which means that that's probably where she answered her last call. sir when you went into the master bedroom did you see blood sprayed all over the walls and everywhere no and fair to say that the video shows all of the walls in the bedroom and doesn't show any spatter or anything on the walls yes so he also went outside to look at the exterior of the home photos were shown of the second floor window leading to the master bedroom the screen was pushed out just as he had seen that night other photos showed reddish brown stains on the shingles between the windows and on the ledge below. And he confirmed those stains were present when he arrived. The photos were admitted as exhibits.

Zoom in on the top window. Does this photo show the condition of the upstairs window, the second floor window, that leads to the master bedroom? Yes. And the screen there in the video, is that how it was when you saw it that night? Yes. Pushed up. Yes.

And if we could see the next photo. They're showing the window and they're using a pointer with the mouth for those just listening and not seeing the second story window. The first one and zoom in in the middle there between the two windows. These areas of red ground stains on the exterior of the house, did you observe those that night in the early morning hours of January 25th, 2023? Yes. In other words, Sprague was pointing between the two windows, the blood, showing that perhaps she hung from the window. Anyway, as the investigation moved forward, McHilligan explained that officers learned from Patrick that Lindsay had been on psychiatric medication.

And that information was passed along to him while he prepared the search warrant, which is why prescription medication was included in the scope. And at that point, no one knew that she had crushed pills or taken anything that night. Later, Patrick brought pill bottles to the state police. He told them they came from the center console of his truck, the lower compartment, not the top. He also told them he had found other pills in the nightstand drawers in the master bedroom. And when asked who found those pills with him, he said he had been with his attorney, Kevin Reddington. McCleggen said Patrick never turned those particular pills over to police, and he didn't know why they were given to the attorney instead. The investigation also uncovered that the Clancy family had gone to the Museum of Science on January 8th.

A video was obtained, and McCeligan watched it. He said he saw Lindsay interacting with the kids, pointing things out, showing them how the exhibit worked, helping them with the controls. Sprague played a portion of the footage. McGilligan pointed out where each family member was. Patrick, taking Dawson out of the room, Lindsay staying with Cora and Callan, Cora in her red skirt, Dawson near the entrance. He described Lindsay guiding the kids through the exhibit and switching to help Dawson. The clip showed several minutes of her engaging with them. Bragg then asked about a meeting with the medical examiner during the grand jury process.

McGilligan said he had attended and participated. in questioning Dr. Barbara Bidal Olson. And he recalled her explaining how strangulation causes death. A pressure has to continue even after a person loses consciousness and that it takes several minutes of sustained pressure to kill someone. Did she tell you that constant pressure would need to be applied even after the person went unconscious in a strangulation in order to affect death? Yes.

Did she tell you that it takes several minutes of continuous pressure to cause death? If this is going to be admitted, can we not have leading questions? Ask her a witness. Ask them what she said. Do you recall? Sorry. Do you recall what she said about the time it takes to strangle someone to death? After unconsciousness, I think she said several minutes.

It would take several more minutes for someone to die. And would that be several more minutes of strangulation? Yes. On cross exam, Reddington asked about the pill bottle found in the master bedroom. McGilligan said he only knew about the bottles Patrick mentioned. Reddington showed him a photo of the pill bottles and asked whether he recognized them. McGilligan said he did not. Reddington told him he had personally contacted the DA's office immediately after taking possession of the bottles and offered to hand them over.

But McCeligan said he didn't know anything about that conversation. This is being the light stand drunk It looks It looks similar to the one that was in the video I see it? You can look at it? I mean look similar to the one I've never seen that I don't know I don't know

And do you know that when these were seized the first thing That was done is I contact with the DA's office and said that I had them I don't know what you said to them Come by my office and pick up anything they had You welcome and look at it, seize it I haven't analyzed, set it to a crime left, I think, yet. I don't know he said. Oh, yeah.

Thank you. And that actually wrapped court up for the day, a little early, and there will be no court tomorrow. So the trial resume on Monday. I have a few things. Don't go anywhere. Because after the jury left, the judge held a motion hearing. And the issue involved security logs kept by the court.

court, which are records of who had gone into the lockup area to visit Lindsay during the trial. Both sides had seen people go back there, right? Medical staff, a priest. I saw the priest. He was there a lot when I was there every day. Dr. Paul Zaisal, who was expected to testify for the defense, the Commonwealth argued that they had a right to know the names of everyone who had gone back there to see Lindsay. But the judge did not necessarily.

Agree. You listen to this. Thank you. Counsel? Your Honor, the Commonwealth is asking the court to allow the Commonwealth in the defense to have copies of a log that we were advised that, or we've seen, that the trial court security has for people who go back into the lockup area to visit with or tend to or what have you with the defendant during the course of this trial. Both myself and 80 Sprague have witnessed at several points. Obviously, we know there are medical staff that go back with the defendant, but in addition to medical staff, which are not really the primary thrust of this motion,

it's that there have been other individuals that are not counsel that are permitted to go back there. And we're not alleging that that's inappropriate in any way, shape, or form. Clearly, the staff here, the security staff, has followed all appropriate protocols. But we are aware that Dr. Zaisal has been back there. We witnessed a priest being allowed back there the other day. And we are advised that these visitors are kept as a log when they come, when they exit, what days, what times. And the Commonwealth is alleging that that's information that might be necessary for us to effectively cross-examine some of the defense witnesses that are going to be presented. Certainly with Dr. Zaisel, it could pose as a potential bias that he's there, that he's back there.

He's being presented as an expert witness on the concept of criminal responsibility. and there are certain ethical rules that forensic, psychiatrists, and psychologists follow that he might be subject to cross-examination about, and this and the nature of his relationship with the defendant could be an area fraud for cross-examination. Because these court records are not, these court records, I would suggest, are not in the care custody and control of the Commonwealth. Procedurally, we have filed the motion as a Rule 17 motion asking for access to the records, just for this defendant during the course of the trial.

I mean, you're not looking for the name of the priest who went back. There are you? I mean, I understand, I'm just trying to figure out what the scope of this is. I understand the request for Dr. Zaisal amount of visits. He's slated to possibly be a witness. So I understand that how that might be relevant. Right. The priest I'm struggling with. At this point, Your Honor, we haven't been furnished with exactly who defense is going to be calling as witnesses in their case.

We have an idea from a witness list that was filed that keeps evolving as the trial progresses. So we don't know, for instance, if that person for some reason has a relationship to the defendant and any wishes to call or call him for some reason. So with the exception of, again, the nurses, we don't necessarily need their information. We know the purpose for why they're there and that they don't have a role in this case. But anyone else who has been permitted back there that is outside the medical staff, I would suggest the Commonwealth is entitled to at least know and whether we are able to use that information. If it becomes more apparent when the defense was underway with their case, that would come to, that we'd have to wait and see if that's the case.

But certainly the fact that counsel has announced Dr. Zaisal as a testifying witness, That's information we believe we're entitled to. All right. Ms. Rayton. So first of all, here's the list. They want the list. We don't need a Rule 17 in a court order. They can just go over from there to there and get the list and see who's been going in and out to see Lindsay. I don't have a problem with that by no means whatsoever. Father Bob is a Roman Catholic priest who baptized these kids who is very,

very, very close to Lindsay, not in a religious sense. They just like each other. She went to mass sporadically. She's not a devout Catholic. She's a Catholic. She has a relationship with the father. Guy since last week, first time I ever met him. Took his hand.

Nice, nice man. After that debacle yesterday that we went through with the public. Let's stay focused on. I am staying focused. Well, this is what I'm doing. I guess I'll tell you right now. So I can save it.

I'm not aware of it. The name or address of anyone other than Dr. Zaisal. Can I call him as a witness right now? No. No, I'm going to allow that so the Commonwealth can take a look at that record. Nobody else, though. And then at some point as we, if that, If the doctor is called, we may need, if we have to address that, we can address it.

So I'm going to allow the Commonwealth to have the information regarding Dr. Zaisal. And that's it, though. Anyone else who went back there has been done, has been admitted, pursuant to the appropriate rules of the security department in this case. especially I'm not ordering the name, address, or frequency of this Roman Catholic priest. This is not going to do it based on the record that I have now. If for some reason he's called as a witness, which I haven't seen that, I haven't seen an expectation, even regards that if that comes up, then the Commonwealth can renew this and I may re-evaluate. But right now, the Commonwealth's motion regarding security logs is allowed as to Dr. Paul Zaisal only.

All right. Anything else we need to address before Monday? Come up. Oh, yeah. All right. All right. So we'll see everybody on my. You know, that actually answered a lot of questions for me.

First off, I thought it was funny when Reddington got up and he's like, here's the log. It's right here. they can walk over and read it. And, you know, the judge saying that he understands why they would want to know about Dr. Zaisal's visit because he's going to be a defense witness. This priest he's struggling with. I actually did wonder. One, I was in court for two weeks who the priest was.

I noticed that the priest was always with Lindsay Clancy's parents at every recess and every break, but didn't necessarily sit with them. I've also been very curious about Lindsay's religious affiliation because I have heard that she had not been religious. I'd heard she had. To me, it's actually important to understand because we do know that she likely said go to God babies as she took her children's lives. Go to God, baby. and I, you know, I'm curious because the Andrea Yates case, which is the most well-known case of postpartum depression and psychosis, there was a religious element to it, even a bald spot in her head. I spoke to her attorney recently. Many of you saw the interview where George Parnum explained that the first time he met Andrea Yates, she had a bald spot from trying to scratch 666 out of her, her, her, uh,

head. So, you know, I'm not saying that these two cases are both religious or similar or whatever. I mean, they have similarities, but I'm not saying they were experiencing the same thing. So to hear who this priest is that, that, yes, but Lindsay and her family are Catholic. She would attend mass occasionally. And this was someone she felt close to. It was interesting. So now I know who this priest is that is attending there every day. And what a good person I want to say. what a good priest to attend every day, you know, and to visit her. No matter what you think of this case or what you believe the verdict should be or how justice should look. Deep respect for religious leaders who give their time and love to those who are, you know, need it.

All right. I don't know. There are a lot of, once again, differing opinions about. how today went. I am curious about whether Lindsay's journal entries will sway the jurors to either the defense or prosecution. For me, they certainly paint a loving mother. They make it more confusing. Another thing that I would say is sort of, for me, listening to the prosecution, if the only solid search they have is in August and it's the site about self-harm, but they're tying it to a hyperlink and a Wikipedia page about a musician.

It's not great, in my opinion. So I'm saying, is that all you got? Yes, then we learned about more searches. I think one of the most critical searches is that there was a search for postpartum psychosis, symptoms. But again, this could go either way, right? depending on how or how the jurors see this. Some jurors could think of that as her wondering if she's suffering from postpartum psychosis while other jurors might believe that means she was trying to figure out some

symptoms to fake and act like she's in psychosis. But I don't know. Thank you, everyone, for your thoughts. Let me just scan some of the things I pinned that I thought were interesting. So, yeah, using the psychosis and hallucination searches are bombshells, in your opinion. So when else says Lindsay is meticulous, she would definitely build an extra time to pack up Dawson and get to the doctrine time, implying that those weren't necessarily. Her searches the day that they're pulling this evidence from August of 2022, you know, months before.

Someone's saying they still don't get it. I'm going to remove this because I can't have this up on the. screen because of the word it says, but I'll read it. Someone says, I still don't get it. So she looked up self-harm methods, but she faked it. You know, you're kind of like confusing. Like, what is it? I agree.

It is a little confusing. I'm with you. Monty's saying, honestly, it feels like day 50. Yeah, me too. Me too. It feels like day 50 to me too. But it is just day 13, but they are still going. but maybe they'd rest today.

And again, when I talked to Redington a couple weeks ago, he thought they'd be done by now. They're not. No court tomorrow. So now we have what many have been requesting coming up. So hit subscribe, hit notifications. Because just because there is a court tomorrow doesn't mean hit into crime doesn't have something planned.

So subscribe, hit notifications, and we will be letting you know very soon. With that, I will take off. Thank you for being here. Thank you for your opinions. Thank you for the kindness in chat. Thank you for sharing your differing opinions. Thank you for respecting everyone's differing opinions. Yeah.

I realize one thing that we can all agree on together. May justice be served, right? What justice looks like is different for many of us watching. But I think we all want justice. So thank you, everyone for being here. And I'll just say this. We'll see you tomorrow. So hit subscribe, hit that little bell for notifications because there is more that we need to talk about.

We'll see you. Bye-bye.