Hidden True Crime - Inside the Courtroom: Blood Evidence, Hospital Testimony & a Jury Fieldtrip | Lindsay Clancy Day 4

Episode Date: August 1, 2026

Day 4 of the Lindsay Clancy murder trial brought the jury back inside the courtroom after a morning site visit to the Clancy home. I was there for every moment as jurors heard testimony from the first detective to see Lindsay at the hospital, officers who guarded her for more than 16 hours after her arrest, emergency physicians who desperately tried to save Dawson and Callan, and hospital staff who preserved critical blood and urine samples later seized by investigators. We also discuss what today's testimony revealed about the crime scene, Lindsay's injuries, the investigation, and why the Heard Foundation—created by Patrick Clancy in memory of Cora, Dawson, and Callan—continues to advocate for families affected by perinatal mental health disorders. About Hidden True Crime What started as a simple conversation at their dinner table became a captivating podcast. Join the dynamic duo of Dr. John Matthias, a criminal psychologist, and Lauren Matthias, an investigative journalist, as they delve into the psychological facets of unthinkable crimes every week. Their unique perspectives and in-depth analysis offer a fresh take on true crime storytelling. Thank you for your support through sponsorships, subscribing, listening, and becoming a Patreon member at⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Patreon.com/HiddenTrueCrime⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Now, see Spider-Man. But faced with a threat, that can be anyone, on the biggest screen possible. You gotta come with me. I don't know if you're the real Spider-Man. I promised that I would keep you safe. Fine. Spider-Man, brand-new day. Now playing.

Now streaming on Disney Plus, the Hulu original series Furious follows FBI Agent Alice Black, played by Emmy Rossum, on the hunt for a mysterious and calculating serial killer. Both walk their own paths toward justice, and as their lives start to intertwine, The line between right and wrong begins to blur. New episodes week over week. Watch the Hulu original series Furious, now streaming only on Hulu on Disney Plus. Hello, Hidden Gems. Here we are, and we were in court today.

And by we, I mean me and my amazing producer, Grayson, for quite a few witnesses. It's actually quite incredible what they are packing in each day for the, the Lindsay Clancy trial, and we are in the courtroom for every bit of it. Because today, they actually started off with a field trip. It's not every day that jurors do field trips, right? But the jury, the lawyers and the judge, headed out for the Clancy home for a site visit. Media was not allowed inside the house. They were allowed outside of the house, so we all had to wait until they got back to enter the courtroom. We chose not to come.

But I tried to explain it yesterday because we have gone to the house that it looks a lot different than the January photos because of all the greenery. They also, by the way, went to CVS as well as the 3B restaurant, and they took the exact route that Patrick took. That's what the prosecution wanted them to do. And then not all of the jurors went into the house at the same time. They went in about six at a time. But once they returned to the courtroom, we were there and the prosecution continued to call witnesses. I mean, what a day, right? The first witness of the day was Mark Anthony Mafio and Buckingham handled the questioning for the state for Officer Mafio. Buckingham did not have her bow in today. She had a bun instead. The hair bow was missing. Mafio explained that he worked for the Duxbury Police Department had been a police officer for 12 years,

and he said he had spent time in Rockland before joining Duxbury Police Force, and he had been with Duxbury, though, for about nine of those years. Back in January of 2023, he was assigned as detective. He was not scheduled to work on January 24th, that horrific day, but he was called in, and he said that Detective Sergeant Jamalik, contacted him and told him to head to Summer Street in Duxbury. So when he arrived, the scene was still very active. Ambulances, first responders, everything. He didn't go inside the house at that point. He was told that one of the parties was being taken to South Shore Hospital, so that's where he was

sent. He was sent there. He already knew who he was going to meet, though. It was Lindsay Clancy. He later learned that the home was Patrick and Lindsay's and that they had three chills He said that he was told where the kids were and where Patrick was. And at first, there had been some confusion. They thought Patrick was also being transported to South Shore, but that ambulance actually ended up being redirected to Beth Israel and Plymouth. And so when Mafio got to South Shore Hospital, he had a chance to see Lindsay. He said, she looks sedated.

She was unconscious with several lacerations on both her arms and her. neck. The Commonwealth walked through photographs, exhibits 110 through 113. He identified Lindsay in each one and confirmed that the injuries shown were the same ones that he saw that very day, cuts on her neck, cuts on her arms, all consistent with what he observed. Sir, if I could just draw your attention to the screen beside you. I'm showing you now what's been marked as exhibit 110. And it was the individual depicted in this photograph. Lindsay Clancy. And those are the injuries that you observed that day of her on her neck? Correct. And showing you on the screen what's been marked is exhibit number 111. Again, is that

Lindsay Clancy? Yes. And the injuries that you observed on January 24th on her neck. Correct. And 112, Exhibit 112. In the middle of this photograph with an arm extended, there are some cuts in a cut in the middle. Did you observe those on January 24th as well? I did. And finally, Exhibit 113. That would be the other arm. Did you observe those cuts to that arm? Yes. At South Shore Hospital. Did you do anything to collect potential evidence that day? I did. And what did you do? I gathered, I believe they were already had been removed from the hospital staff, clothing, pants, shirt, I believe it was a scarf, and wedding bands. Okay.

May I approach again? You may. I'll show you seven photographs if you could take a look at those. Now, sir, the items that you then collected, you said that they were provided to you. Who gave them to you? It was one of the hospital staff. Okay. And so in examining those, you would agree that those items have been cut off of the individual.

Correct. And so after taking custody of those particular items, did other law enforcement arrive at South Shore Hospital? Yes. And who arrived? Trooper Lawler from the Mass State Police and Officer Apodd from the Duxbury Police. And again, you had been at the scene at 47 Summer Street, correct? Correct. And then you went to South Shore Hospital.

So during the time that mafia was at the hospital, he didn't speak with Lindsay. She wasn't responsive. When asked if she was in custody, he said yes and explained that when someone is in custody, an officer stays with them. So in this case, that was his role, until Officer Leopard relieved him. Once the hospital scene was secured, Mafia left and went back to the house on Summer Street. He helped secure the scene there as crime scene services arrived. He was present when state police detectives executed.

a search warrant later that night into the early hours of the 25th. And then Reddington stood for cross examination. Reddington showed him additional photographs. He actually had like a board with photographs. He used the same board during opening statements. And he asked whether they matched Lindsay's condition when he saw her. Mafia actually said that he did not recall injuries on her legs, but otherwise yes. He confirmed the photos of her face were accurate and that she was unconscious at the time. He confirmed the cuts on her wrists and neck on both sides. Redington asked about Exhibit 112, pointing out the wrist area, and Mafio agreed. Exhibit 111 showed the neck injuries. Again, he agreed. Is that what Lindsay's condition was when you went in the hospital

and saw her in the bed? I don't recall those being on our legs. I'm not 100% sure. But other than that, yes. other than that yes right so i would ask that if i could any objections sure yeah you at some point had a chance to take a look at her um face i imagine sir correct is that fair and accurate depiction yes and she was unconscious at that point was she that's correct about this jane all right that may be admitted and this you said that there was some cuts on her uh wrist yes a fair and accurate depiction. Correct. And cuts on the neck as well. Correct. And from the other side of the front. Yes. Okay. Thank you, Judge, my love. All right. Those photos may be admitted. And I'm just showing you another exhibit. This would have already been introduced into evidence, and this would be exhibit 112. And this would also depict the area of the wrist. that correct? Correct. The cut was likewise, 111 also shows the cuts on the neck. Is that correct?

Correct. I mean, it looks pretty bad to me. Let me know what you guys think of those injuries, because clearly this is a big division with the prosecution, the Commonwealth, and the defense, whether these are simply superficial wounds or very severe life-threatening ones. Anyway, Reddington then switched to Mafio's role. Mafia said that he was a detective at the time and that he worked alongside the state police. He was one of several Duxbury's detectives. Reddington brought up the clothing again. In fact, that Lindsay's clothing had actually been cut off. Mafio confirmed that too. Reddington kept walking Mafia through more photos. He showed him an item of Lindsay's clothing and asked if it looked accurate. Mafia said yes. When asked, whether he said,

saw blood on that particular piece, he said he didn't see any. Redington asked him if there was any paint or residue, but Mafio did not recall anything like that. He didn't remember blood on the jeans either. And on top, the top she wore, he didn't see any blood. But he did remember a bra that had been cut off and he agreed that blood had seeped through the clothing and into the bra. That blood would have come from the outside of the clothing and then into the bra.

underneath. He agreed there was blood on both the interior and exterior of what she had been wearing. Does that show that there's blood on that item of clothing? Not that I see. Okay. Was there some type of residue of paint or something on the clothing, if you recall? I don't recall, no. No. Does you notice on the pants, any blood? on the jeans, if you recall, I don't recall, no. How about the, I guess it would be the top that was worn? Do you notice any blood on that?

No. Was there a bra that was cut off, if you recall? Yes, there was. And the blood seeped through the clothing into the bra itself. Is that correct? Correct. And that would be obviously from outside the clothing and then into the brow that was being worn, right?

Correct. So Reddington moved to the backyard and he asked if Mafia saw blood directly underneath the window. Mafia said yes, on the ground, the snow and the leaves. He explained that a lot of people had been walking around so you couldn't see everything clearly, but the blood was there. He also saw blood on the second floor window sill, a handmark on the ledge and he saw blood on two shingles below that window. And then they talked about the search warrant. Mafio confirmed that the state police got one and that he was there while they searched.

It was a group effort, Duxbury officers, state police, crime scene services. Reddington then asked about pill bottles. Mafia said pill bottles were seized, but he didn't know why. He didn't seize any himself. He was in the house, but not in the room where they were taken. Well, Reddington pushed him on that, pointing out that Mafio had just said he was there when they were seized. Mafio clarified he was in the house but not physically present in the room when the bottles were collected.

Was seized were pill bottles, is that right? Correct. You know why they were seized? I do not. Did you seize any pill bottles? I do not. Were you there when the state police seized the pill bottles? I was. Do you recall that the pill bottles were seized from, for example, in the kitchen. You opened up a cabinet and there were right on a bunch of them lined up on a shelf. I can't attest to that. I wasn't present for that. When I ask you this, where did they get the pill bottles from?

You'd have to ask them. I wasn't there when they seized the bottles. You weren't there. I wasn't in that room. We were in multiple rooms at a time. So I may stand corrected. I'm sorry. I thought I asked you if you were there when the state police was seizing the bottles,

and I thought you said you were. I was in the house, correct. In the house, but you weren't there when they were seizing anything. How about up in the bedroom? Did you go up in the bedroom? I did. Did you observe the blood in the floor? I did.

Well, Reddington asked if he went into the bedroom. Mafia said he did. He remembered how cold it was because the window was open. Remember, Massachusetts, January, it's dark. Reddington, well, but not necessarily, but Reddington showed him photos of blood drops on the floor. Mafia said they looked accurate. He said there was blood next to the boots on the right side of the bed. He confirmed the nightstand photo, two cups, a number. A number. A lot of the nightstand photo. Two cups. knife, a jar, maybe a clock and blood drops. Another photo showed that knife, the cup and a bottle labeled Deep Sleep Pillow Spray. Mafia said yes, that was all on the nightstand. More photographs showed clothing on the floor, a headband, a charging wire, and more blood. Another showed the bed and the area near the window. Reddington asked about a full-length mirror, but Mafia said he did not recall a full-length mirror, which is interesting, right? Reddington circled back to the pill bottles. Mothio said again that he had nothing to do with seizing them.

He didn't remember journals or notebooks in the kitchen either. He said his involvement that night was limited, but he did find a laptop in a hallway closet, which the state police seized. Reddington asked if he saw the nightstand drawer opened with pill bottles inside, and Mafia said he wasn't present for that. He didn't recall anything about an Apple Watch either. And then Buckingham came back for redirect. She asked whether medical staff at the hospital were actively treating Lindsay's neck and wrist wounds when Mafia was there. He said no. She asked whether anyone entered the house before crime scene services arrived who didn't need to be there. And he said,

no. And that's normal protocol. She asked if he was present when any of the photos shown by the defense were taken. He said he didn't believe so. She clarified that his testimony about the photos was his best memory of what the scene looked like, and he agreed. Buckingham asked about the search warrant execution, whether there were a lot of officers and troopers in the house. Mafia said yes. Everyone had their own role, and he stayed in the area. He confirmed again that the only thing he personally found was the laptop. Reddington stood again for a brief Follow-up. He pointed out that Mafio did not have to stay in one area. He can move around and assist. Mafio agreed. Reddington asked how many Duxbury officers were around the house, but Mafia said he didn't know.

Same with State Police. He didn't know the exact number. Reddington asked about the Sheriff's Department. Mafia wasn't sure if they were there. Reddington suggested that between Duxbury and state police, there were probably more than 10 officers involved. Mafio agreed. He said there were multiple cruisers and yellow tape blocking off the area. Reddington asked if someone like him could just walk up and wander around the house. Mafio, he said no. Only law enforcement until the scene was cleared. And then once the search warrant was executed, an evidence was seized, Then the home could be reopened. Mopio didn't know when that happened.

And that ended his testimony. Well, the next witness was Richard Lippard, also from Duxbury, PD. Buckingham asked how long he'd been an officer. Six and a half years. All of that time had been with Duxbury. He was a patrolman then and had been on patrol in January 2023. He was working on January 24th. At some point, he was asked to assist

with the Summer Street investigation. He had already finished his shift, but they called him back in. He went to the police department first, then was directed to South Shore Hospital. And when he arrived, Detective Mafia was already there. His job was to overwatch the person in custody, which he learned was Lindsay Clancy. He said she seems sedated, not speaking, just lying there in the hospital bed. He never had any conversation with her. Lippard continued describing what happened at South Shore.

He said Lindsay stayed unresponsive the entire time that he was with her, so not conscious. When asked if he remembered anyone coming to take photographs, he said he didn't recall. Medical staff were tending to her, and this was all happening in the emergency department. Well, not longer after he arrived, doctors indicated that she was going to be transported somewhere else. She was going to be med-flighted to Brigham and Women's Hospital in Boston, and other than law enforcement and medical staff, no one spoke with her at South Shore. Lippard actually wrote in the helicopter with Lindsay, and when they landed at the Brigham, she was taken straight into the emergency room. He stayed with her there, along with Officer Broderick. Their job was simply to overwatch her. He said she never woke up or responded at any point. He stayed with her for about 15 to 16 hours through the night and into the next morning.

At some point during the night, there was a medical code. He wasn't sure what kind, but he and Broderick were outside the room when it happened. And the next morning, two other Duxbury officers relieved him. And during all that time, he said no one, besides medical staff and law enforcement, interacted with her. then Reddington stood for cross-examination. So he was back up. Yesterday, hardly any cross-exams. Today, a lot. He clarified that Lippard never went to the house. He went straight to Salshore Hospital.

His role was to overwatch, essentially guard an unconscious person who was in custody in the hospital. And Lippert agreed. He described her as bandaged, lying in the bed, not conscious. or your purpose was to as you say overwatch well that basically is she was in custody at that point right correct so one of your obligations was is to i guess guard the unconscious person to make sure what to do

what just to stand there correct okay um and you did in the south shore hospital right yes sir and you made your observations of her you know bandaged or whatever laying in the bed and she was not conscious correct correct and at some point the decision was made medically that they were going to have her med flighted to the Boston hospital, Brigham a woman's, right? Correct. And that was by way of the helicopter. Yes, sir.

You had a helicopter ride into Boston with her, right? Yes, sir. You were over-watching her in the helicopter again, right? Yes. The decision was made to med-flight, Lindsay, to Boston and Lippertrude Road in the helicopter with her. She still had not gained consciousness. She was still not talking to anyone.

She had tubes in her mouth, bandages, and it was strapped into the gurney. And when they arrived at Brigham, she was brought into a small emergency room filled with equipment, boxes, wires, tubes, buzzing, monitors, lights, all the usual life-saving gear. He said there was enough space for medical staff to move around, but it was tight. Two Duxbury officers overwatched her, him and Broderick. Reddington asked when state police arrived. Lippert said he didn't recall seeing state police. at the Brigham. He confirmed that he stayed in that emergency room for 16 hours and did not return

after that. He said the room was extremely busy, chaotic, like Bedlam. He didn't recall seeing internal hospital police either, maybe security, but he wasn't sure. Reddington kept using that word, by the way, Bedlam. So I actually, I had to look it up, honestly. And it means a place or a scene of loud noise, extreme confusion, chaos, and wild uproar. Lippard said that officers were detailed to sit outside the room to guard the door. They were guarding against anyone trying to visit because no visitors were allowed. Around 2.24 in the morning, the medical code happened. He said that intensified the chaos, people running, the overhead system calling out the code

and identifying the room. Reddington asked if that meant she was dead or dying. Lippert said yes. And when asked if she was chained to the bed, he said he didn't recall her being handcuffed. He left the Brigham around 10 the next morning. He was relieved by Officer Daly and Officer Johnson. He does not recall seeing any other law enforcement officers with them or coming into the room. And that ended his shift.

Next up was Dr. Mark Joseph Taranowitz, questioned by ADA Sprague. So now we're into doctors. We're hearing from a doctor. Doctors are on the witness stand. So this doctor explained that he used to work as an emergency physician, but now does disability review work for the state of Rhode Island. But back in January, 2023, he was still practicing emergency medicine at Beth Israel Deaconess Hospital. in Plymouth. He walked the jury through his background, always important. Undergrad at Trinity College, a medical degree from Brown residency in emergency medicine at UMass Memorial in Worcester. He worked in emergency medicine from 1997 until May 2025. So Sprague asked about that day, January 24th, 2023. He said he was working that evening and treating a child named Dawson Clancy.

Dawson arrived by fire department ambulance. Emergency personnel gave him a summary of Dawson's condition. They told him. Dawson had reportedly been strangled and was found without a pulse and not breathing. When Dawson arrived, Dr. Tenorowitz saw that he had a breathing tube in place. Emergency responders had inserted an I-O device into the bone of his leg to deliver fluids and medication. CPR was ongoing. Dawson was not breathing on his own. He had no pulse. He was not responding.

He noticed some older appearing bruises on Dawson's leg and ruptured blood vessels on his face. He does not recall seeing anything specific on the neck. He described the treatment they gave, continuing. CPR, giving IV fluids, giving adrenaline to try to restart the heart, confirming the breathing tube placement, treating pressured acid buildup in the blood, giving calcium to help the heart beat effectively if it restarted. He explained how they confirmed the breathing tube was in the right place. They were detecting carbon dioxide coming out of the lungs, so they were listening for breath sounds using a video to visually confirm the tube was between the vocal cords

and doing an x-ray as well. Sprague asked whether the breath sounds he heard were Dawson breathing on his own. He said no. Someone was squeezing the bag valve mask. The breath sounds simply confirmed that the air being pushed in was reaching the lungs and carbon dioxide was coming out. Dawson wasn't breathing spontaneously. Dr. Tenaro was continued explaining what happened with Dawson.

He said that while all of this was going on, he kept reassessing Dawson's condition. And every few minutes, they would pause CPR just long enough to check for any sign of breathing, any sign of a pulse. And there was never anything. Toward the end, he used an ultrasound to see if Dawson's heart was beating at all. And there was no movement. Here were his findings.

And based on your training and experience at some point in time, And did you make a determination that your efforts weren't going to be successful? I did. Based on the time from when resuscitative efforts started in the field by the paramedics and the time that we put in and the fact that despite the best resuscitative efforts we could, the fluids, the medicines, the CPR breathing for him, it did not look like his heart would ever start again. Approximately how long did you and your team work on Dawson? I believe we worked on Dawson about 40 minutes in addition to what the paramedics had done previously.

At any point in time, did you try to use a defibrillator? I did not. And why is that? He was unfortunately never in a heart rhythm that would have made defibrillation an effective treatment. So your heart has to be in a certain condition for a defibrillator to even work? Yes, there are two heart rhythms, basically quivering of the heart, that if you use a defibrillator, you can restore a rhythm that makes the heartbeat effectively. He was never in one of those rhythms.

And at some point in time, did you declare Dawson deceased? Yes. Okay. And do you recall when that was? I believe from my review of the records recently, it was at 1928. And 1928, would that be 7.28 p.m.? That's correct. Thank you, doctor.

Reddington's cross examination was brief, but he did it. He got up. He asked about the older bruises on Dawson's leg and the shin area. The doctor confirmed that. He also confirmed that they put an I-O, the needle inserted directly into the tibia, and that was it for cross. And I want to just point out that learning about Dawson's treatment, not just from the paramedics on scene, but learning that in the emergency room, once he was transferred to the emergency room,

they spent another 40 minutes on him trying to restart that heart. It was incredibly touching, and I just want to say thank you to everyone who works to save lives. I know that it seems like Dawson, that everyone worked very hard. The next witness was another doctor. It was Dr. Benjamin Kaufman. and he was also questioned by Sprague. He said he was an emergency medicine doctor and had been doing that for about 12 years. He went to Boston University for medical school, trained at King's County for residency,

then did a fellowship in global emergency medicine at Columbia University. He worked at Beth Israel and Plymouth and he was working there on January 24th, 2023. And that night, he treated Callan Clancy. Callan arrived with EMS and CPR already in progress. EMS gave him the rundown. Callan's heart had stopped. CPR was ongoing.

He wasn't breathing and he was being ventilated with a bag valve mask. As soon as Callan came in, they placed a breathing tube and established an IV. The first thing they did was give epinephrine that Dr. Kaufman said that with the ultrasound, he could look directly at Callan's heart. And after that dose of epinephrine, that is when Callan's heart, it actually started beating again. Incredible, right? They continued compressions and continued breathing for him through the tube. Plymouth Hospital didn't have pediatric capabilities for a case this severe. So they were immediately on the phone with Boston Children's Hospital preparing Callan to transfer him for more definitive care. He said Callan,

regained a heartbeat about 10 minutes after arriving, but he never regained the ability to breathe on his own at all. Sprigg asked about brain function. Dr. Kaufman said Callen never exhibited any. He explained the Glasgow comma scale, a range from 3 to 15. 15 is someone who is awake, talking, functioning normally. Three is someone with no brain response. And Callan, well, he was at a three the entire time, no brain response. They stayed in contact with Boston Children's and eventually Callan was flown there by helicopter. ICU doctors were on the phone the whole time reviewing the case and giving recommendations. And from the moment he arrived at Plymouth, until he reached Boston Children's, Callan never breathed on his own. There was no cross-exam for the first time of the day. The next witness was Melissa Arcata Payne. And she was questioned by Buckingham. She worked for South Shore Hospital as the supervisor of the specimen processing department in the lab. She had been there over 20 years. Her job was overseeing

the department where all specimens from inside and outside the hospital came in, blood, urine, everything. They checked labels, made sure orders were correct, made sure samples were in the right tubes. She explained how samples from the emergency department usually arrived through a tube system. Nurses and texts collected the samples, labeled them, put them in the right vials, and sent them through the tube system to the lab. Her lab would check the samples, confirm labeling, confirm the correct tubes, and then process them. Sometimes they received several vials from one patient. They only ran tests ordered by physicians, and those tests didn't always use the entire sample. So leftover samples were often retained in case more testing was needed. She was familiar

with preservation notices, which are requests from law enforcement to hold specific samples for a particular patient. When they received one, they pulled those samples aside, put them in a specimen bag with a copy of the notice and stored them in a separate bin inside the specimen refrigerator, so they wouldn't be discarded. She said she was aware that the preservation notice had been served for Lindsay Clancy's blood and urine on January 24th, 2023. Those samples were collected

and then placed in the separate bin. On January 31st, she interacted with a state trooper who came with a warrant to collect the specimens. She retrieved the samples from the bin, confirmed they were Lindsay's, and handed them over. She remembered giving him samples but she did not recall the exact number or type.

Buckingham noted that six vials of blood and one vial of urine were handed over. There was no cross-exam once again for those last two witnesses. Now, after that, there was a really long sidebar with white noise, and I was waiting and expecting that there would be another doctor today. The doctor that treated Cora, it seemed like the natural progress. of the way the day was going, right? But no, after after the sidebar and the white noise was turned off, court ended early for the day. The judge stood up, looked at the jury, and I'm going to share a little bit more about the jury today in just a minute, so stick with me. But the judge

reminded the jury again, not to research or talk about the case. He then said the court is now recessed until Monday at 9 a.m. So I'll get into a few of your questions and I will talk about the jury in just a bit. But I also want to add something else tonight. I actually want to kind of share because there was a question. There are quite a few questions actually in the chat about where Patrick stands on things. And yes, Lindsay Clancy's parents are in court every single day. Patrick Clancy, well, he's probably actually not able to be in court because he's testifying, but, you know, he's not in court. I don't see, you know, Patrick Clancy's family there. So there's questions. So I want to share about a foundation that Patrick Clancy has created.

It is called the Herd Foundation, Heard-H-E-A-R-D, Heard Foundation. So according to the website, the Heard Foundation exists to reimagine perinatal mental health care so that no parent faces illness in silence and no family navigates this journey alone. We work to break stigma, expand access to compassionate care, and build a lasting culture of support for families affected by perinatal mood and anxiety disorders, also known as PMAD. P-MATs. So if you go to that website under the story tab, it reads, quote, On January 24, 2023, Patrick Clancy's world changed four. Forever when his three beloved children, Cora, Dawson, and Callan were lost amid their

mother's struggle with postpartum psychosis. In the earliest days of unimaginable grief, Pat, Patrick Pat, made a promise that their lives would always be remembered and that he would work to ensure no other family endures the same heartbreak. From his grief, grew purpose, hope, and a shared relationship. resolve to do better. In 2024, the Heard Foundation was founded by Pat and his sisters, Aaron Donahue, and Laura Sullivan. What began as a family promise became a community-powered movement, one grounded in empathy, action, and love. Hurd's mission is both deeply personal

and boldly forward-looking to reimagine perinatal mental health care to build a dedicated a treatment center where parents can heal with dignity and support and foster a culture of kindness and connection so no one struggles alone. Guided by Cora's nightly prayer, thank you for a beautiful day in the neighborhood. That was in quotes. Cora's nightly prayer, quote, thank you for a beautiful day in the neighborhood. As well as Pat's belief that love always wins, love always wins. Herd transformed heartbreak into a force for good. Every initiative, partnership, and act of care carries forward the light of Cora, Dawson, and Callan, ensuring their memory helps shape a more compassionate future for families everywhere. There is also a section titled

Heard Project, which is all about sharing stories. This project was actually launched just this past May. So this is fairly new. And that reads, quote, behind every experience with perinatal mental health disorders is a real person, a real family, and a story that deserves to be heard. At the Heard Foundation, we believe that sharing our stories can create connection, reduce stigma, and remind others that they are not alone. The Heard Project aims to honor the many faces and experiences of PMADS, And forgive me, if somebody knows if that's P-M-M-A-D-S, Perry, let me know. But this includes postpartum depression, postpartum anxiety, postpartum psychosis, OCD, trauma, grief, and other maternal mental health challenges.

Some stories may be hopeful, some may still be unfolding. All are welcome here. So whether you are a mother, a partner, a family member, survivor, clinician, or someone who has loved and supported a person through the person, this journey, your voice matters. You may choose to share your story publicly or anonymously. Include your first name, initials, or no identifying information at all. Submit a photo of yourself, your family, artwork, or an image that feels meaningful to your experience. Write a few sentences or a longer reflection. There is no right way to tell your story. Our goal is to help make the

invisible, visible, and the silence heard to create space for honest conversations. around maternal mental health and remind others that they are not alone. And through these shared experiences, we hope to foster connection, reduce shame, and help others feel seen, understood, and supported. For those who would like to support the foundation, you can head to with love, to heard with love. So heard, H-E-A-R-D with-love.org. I think that that probably summarizes where Patrick Clancy stands in this whole thing.

Yes, he has divorced Lindsay Clancy. Yes, he has remarried. And yes, he believes firmly that Lindsay Clancy, his ex-wife, suffered from postpartum psychosis and supports her. And there you go. So for those that want to know. We're following along the evidence. Yes, a plea was not offered in this situation.

We're following the evidence. We're following the testimonies. We're following it all so that we can continue to stay open here at hidden true crime and learn and process. together. So thank you for being here. Now, questions. I mentioned, I was going to talk about the jury. There's a few questions here and if you starred chats that I want to talk about. So Aspen asks, how was the jury's demeanor upon returning from their field trip? You know, they did seem a little bit more attentive and they were many of them were taking notes today. Other than that, I did

didn't notice much. Of course, again, we could not see them while they were inside the house. I don't think I noticed much of a change. I wish I could say, oh, wow, yeah, man, things were really different. I didn't sense that. That's not what I sensed, but what I do sense with this jury is a lot of paying attention and a lot of looking at Lindsay. Lindsay also cried again today, broke down again today. At a time, not as hard as she did on day two when the nine and one call was played. But there were more tears and more emotions from Lindsay. So, and then I answered this question.

Someone said, I'm assuming Lindsay's parents support her. They do. And Patrick as well. What are the opinions of Patrick's parents? I don't know, but we did learn that that nonprofit wasn't just started by Patrick. It was started by Patrick and his two sisters, which shows a supportive family. Thank you, McSpunkey. So good to see you here.

I appreciate that. Thank you, Celeste. I really appreciate that. My heart also goes out to the families. No one wins here. It's just sad for everyone. Has there been a priest in court with the family most days? Yes.

Especially during breaks. Yes. The priest is not always sitting next to the family, but the priest is often with family during breaks. Question, is it true that the judge won't allow witnesses to speak on their own personal postpartum depression or postpartum psychosis? Yes, that is true. So that was a pre-trial motion and what essentially happened is the defense, Lindsay's defense, which, by the way, I talked to Kevin Reddington today, and he had something to say for all of you. For those that watched my library earlier, you already know, but I will share that. But essentially, the prosecution

argued they did not want any women discussing their experiences with postpartum depression or postpartum psychosis because they argued it would be essentially a trial within a trial that, in other words, these women that claim that they had postpartum psychosis could be challenged. Did they really happen? What were your symptoms? How did you know? And then the prosecution said, then we would have to call doctors and to confirm that they truly suffered. Thus, their argument was, no, this would be another trial within a trial. And so the judge agreed with the prosecution in this situation and said, yeah, we don't want a trial within a trial. And women are now, there will be no witnesses at this time that can share about their personal experiences with

postpartum depression or postpartum psychosis. Katie is asking a great question. New subscriber here. I'm sure this has been explained 100 times, but is this basically a murder verdict or acquitted? Yeah. So it is actually very interesting because one thing nobody is disagreeing with is that Lindsay killed her children. No one has to prove that Lindsay killed her children because that's been stipulated.

Both sides agree that Lindsay killed her children. So that's not what this is about. Both sides also agree that there was mental health issues. You know, there's a lot of record of Lindsay's mental health issues. You know, a lot of, I mean, she was inpatient for days, five days, just before. before this happened. Same month, you know? So this is essentially, yeah, first-degree murder,

meaning intentional plotting, planning, and with malice, that her intent was to perhaps kill herself, that she was done with motherhood, that she essentially with malice, what the prosecution is arguing is that she was done with motherhood, she was tired, she was a perfectionist, and she just wanted to get rid of her children, and that maybe she didn't even want to, and then she couldn't even kill

herself. That's essentially what the prosecution is saying, that Lindsay planned this, she plotted it, she sent Patrick out, and ultimately in the end couldn't even kill herself, she just didn't want to be a mother anymore. That's what they're arguing. While the defense is arguing, this is mental health. This is something she was, she was not in her mental state, right mind, that this was not with malice, that this was psychosis. Think Andrea Yates. If anybody remembers Andrea Yates case in the early 2000, I think it was 2005 was it? Andrea Yates, that's a really important case. That's a case that this is most related to this one that I can think of, where Andrea Yates killed all five of her children in the bathtub, drowned them each.

While she was experiencing postpartum psychosis, the jury found her not guilty by reasons of insanity. She is still in a mental hospital. I don't know exactly where she is mental hospital, mental intentsia. So forgive me, I don't know. But she's not in prison, but she is not free. So ultimately that would that would be this. It's is Lindsay going to stay where she is in a safe facility or is she going to prison? That's what this case is about.

Is this postpartum psychosis, postpartum mental health? Or did she do this to her children with malice, with plot and planning and a forethought because she no longer wanted to be a mother and was she in her right? of mind and just simply was done with her children. It wasn't what it was cracked up to be. That's what the prosecution is arguing. So after court, I spoke to Kevin Reddington, hung around for a while after court. He came out. Another reporter asked him a question about why he thought that Cora's doctor didn't testify. He said he didn't know. They asked how long he felt. that the prosecution would continue. He thought the prosecution could wrap up by the end of next week

or the following. And then he said he didn't know how many witnesses he planned a call. He had a lot of witnesses, but he was still deciding depending, you know, on the prosecution, what the prosecution decides, how many witnesses they're going to call, who they're going to call, and he'll decide his defense. And then I told him about our podcast, Hidden True Crime. And then I told him about our podcast, hidden true crime and all of you here. And I asked him if there was something that he wanted to share with my listeners today about Lindsay. And this is what he told me. He said, yes, I love her. She's awesome. She's just a very, very wonderful person. And then he paused. And he said, this is just very difficult. And this is just very difficult. It was after a long time. It was like he was

thinking about what to say, kind of like, how do I describe this? And he just says, this is just very difficult. So, yeah, there you go. Another question by Marie Potts Plants. Lauren, we're you surprised they didn't question more about the bands if Patrick was familiar with them or with Lindsay using them during workouts. There are just so many. I have. Yeah, I have wondered. I thought we might have more questions about the murder weapon, right? That's what they are.

They're the weapon in this case. It's not every case where exercise bands are the weapon. But in this case, they are. And I was surprised. and, you know, I was also surprised by Reddington's lack of cross-examining yesterday. That is when a lot of the bands were discussed was yesterday, and he just simply did not do a lot of cross-exams. He objected to how many officers were reporting first responders

were reporting what they saw at the scene and that narrative. And then, interestingly enough, that was shot down by the judge. They said no, you know, the judge said, no, all of these witnesses can testify. And when they spoke about the bans and the prosecution spoke about the bans, no, there was not a lot of cross-exam or questions about them. So it doesn't seem like that's where he wants to put his focus. It's interesting. And the prosecution as well, too, right? Why is the prosecution not pushing that these were Lindsay's, that Lindsay used them every day?

It makes me wonder if maybe there's something to that. Why? It's a great point to bring up. Thank you, Marie Potts. Yeah, and someone's bringing up Chad Dorman. I'll just explain that. Chad Dorman had many issues. He killed his three sons, obviously not postpartum. He got three life sentences. Right. And I think ultimately a lot of people have compared this case to that. And I think, The question is not even whether there were mental health issues with Lindsay, right? Because again, even I think the prosecution realizes there was some mental health issues with Lindsay. Ultimately, it's the motive behind it. Is it with malice? Is it with, is she in her right mind to plan and say, I no longer want to be a mother, this is my moment. I'm going to send Patrick out and I'm going to do this and then claim I heard a voice.

but really I just wanted to rid myself of these children. I think that's what the prosecution is claiming, that it is more like a Chad Dorman case, where the defense is saying it's much more than that. It's postpartum psychosis, and Lindsay was actively seeking help. Lindsay had even checked herself into inpatient. Lindsay was not okay.

Lindsay was taking drugs. Lindsay was meticulous, and Lindsay was being prescribed, the wrong drugs and the wrong diagnosis and the doctors weren't communicating. That's sort of the defense's argument. So I hope that helps. It's a really interesting case. And like I said, I've always said this from the very beginning. It makes this question our own assumptions about things. And so again, I want to reiterate, I really appreciate the varying opinions in this chat and here it hidden true crime, that is so important actually to this case to learn from

one another. So thank you for debating the evidence and debating the testimonies and and debating this case and not necessarily throwing names at one another or, you know, getting mad at the person with the differing opinion. Let's focus on the evidence, the fact, the testimonies to share our opinions and have a great discussion in chat. So thank you, everyone. And thank you to our amazing moderators. I really value people from every side of this case talking about it. And thank you to the women who are sharing their experiences with suffering with mental illness in postpartum after having a baby. So thank you. you. All right. I am going to take off. Thank you for joining with us a little bit earlier.

Tonight, I know that we typically start later. I'll be honest, court got out earlier. It's Friday. We're in Boston. We're going to go out. We need to after such a hard week. And so thank you all for being here. Thank you for supporting our channel. Thank you for supporting our work. Thank you for supporting our podcast. And yeah. So thank you, everyone. We appreciate you. We'll see you.

Good night.