Hidden True Crime - Is Jodi Hildebrandt Running Her Cult Behind Bars?! | Full Lawsuit Breakdown

Episode Date: February 1, 2025

Prioritize your sleep for a healthy year at https://shopbeam.com/HiddenTrueCrime with up to 35% off Dream by Beam. Just use code TRUECRIME at checkout What started as a simple conversation at their dinner table became a captivating podcast. Join the dynamic duo of Dr. John Matthias, a Princeton educated forensic psychologist, and Lauren Matthias, an award-winning investigative journalist, as they delve into the psychological facets of unthinkable crimes every week. Their unique perspectives and in-depth analysis offer a fresh take on true crime storytelling. Thank you for your support through sponsorships, subscribing, listening, and becoming a Patreon member at Patreon.com/HiddenTrueCrime Full Playlist: https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLnLc7I2gyWtS4nL0-uvR9OwDVx26lR5in&si=X7VIPOBCYWm2693p Sources: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SE0mCku86Gs&t=9s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DO1pUG09V6k&t=0s Our Sponsors:* Check out Acorns: https://acorns.com/HIDDENTRUECRIME* Check out Acorns: https://acorns.com/HIDDENTRUECRIME* Check out Armoire and use my code HIDDENTRUECRIME for a great deal: https://www.armoire.style* Check out Effecty and use my code HIDDENTRUECRIME for a great deal: https://www.effecty.com* Check out Happy Mammoth and use my code HIDDENTRUECRIME for a great deal: https://happymammoth.comSupport this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/hidden-a-true-crime-podcast1836/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Absolutely. Horrible abused. I'm Lauren Matthias and this is hidden true crime where we delve into the hidden motives of unimaginable crimes. And a new lawsuit's been filed against convicted Mormon mommy vlogger Ruby Frankie and her therapist turned connections cult leader Jody Hilda Brand. And it's a bombshell filed on January 22nd, 2025. I've read the lawsuit.

It's 112 pages, and I'm here to break it all down for you. What I share in this episode comes directly from the lawsuit filed by plaintiff Michael Tillman, and I cannot confirm the lawsuit's claims to be facts. So I want to lay that out. But what the lawsuit states and what the lawsuit claims is dammy. The lawsuit lists the plaintiff as Michael Tillman. The defendants are the incarcerated Jody Hildebrandt and Ruby Frankie, as well as the Connections Classroom Company, plus a new name we've yet to really hear Michael Washburn.

Michael is also referred to as her maiden name, Michael Savage, and because Michael Savage is a female and the ex-wife of the plaintiff, Michael Tillman, so plaintiff Michael and defendant Michael were once married, Michael and Michael, there's a lot of Michael's going on. And that's confusing. So I'm going to stick to calling defendant Michael Savage Washburn by her maiden name Savage, and just like the lawsuit does. Hence, I'm going to call her Savage. And her ex-husband and plaintiff, Michael, will call him Tillman. The lawsuit describes a long and complicated relationship with Michael and Michael,

aka Tillman and Savage, beginning when they were still married. Back then, Tillman and Savage were both seeing Jody Hildebrandt for couples therapy. and according to the lawsuit after their divorce, ex-wife Savage continued to see Jody even becoming a mental fitness trainer for Jody's connections company. And nearly a decade later, according to the lawsuit, ex-wife Savage continues to be a devout follower of Jody's teachings. But before we delve into the details of this relationship and story, let me set the stage with a few more details.

Much of the suit talks about Ruby Frankie and Jody Hildebrandt in regards to their aggravated child abuse convictions. In August, 2023, Ruby Frankie's severely malnourished 12-year-old son escaped therapist Jody Hildebrand's $5 million mansion in southern Utah where both Ruby and Jody were living. The boy covered in deep wounds and duct tape sought help at a neighboring home, which then led to the arrest of both Jody and Ruby. The pair were charged with multiple counts of felony aggravated child abuse for both the young boy, as well as his 10-year-old sister, who was also found in the home. I've been to this awful house of horrors hidden among the serene red rock of Ivan's Utah.

It's unfathomable what happened there. Both children had been tortured and starved, and Jody and Ruby remain behind bars. Although the lawsuit delves into the abuse, these children suffered, I don't want to go over too many more of those awful details again. And so if you're new to this case, I'm linking all of my previous videos and podcast episodes in the description of this episode so you can get caught up. And you can also find the full 112 page lawsuit we're discussing today on patreon.com slash hidden true crime. Just know, though, that I will be referring to Jody and Ruby quite a bit throughout this episode because they are defendants in this lawsuit, along with Jody's connections classroom, as well as ex-wife Savage. So to start, the

suit claims the services offered by connections, connections mental fitness trainers and the connections foundations are all fraudulent. These fraudulent services offered by connections include marital counseling. They include self-improvement counseling, group session counseling, classes, workshops, plus written materials like, say, self-improvement workbooks. And all of these services, according to the suit, are fraudulent. It's fraudulent, organized crime. And the lawsuit claims that the fraudulent, organized crime, this connections racketeering, continues to this day, continues to this day, claiming to be a self-help group. The suit calls this racketeering enterprise, quote, the enterprise. So remember that for throughout this episode, we're going to refer to this

racketeering enterprise as the enterprise. And according to this suit, the enterprise is big. It's big and it's widespread and it's fraudulent. This giant racketeering enterprise, according to the suit, is essentially making a lot of money, a lot of profit. Still, by praying on vulnerable people seeking these counseling services and then these vulnerable people become unsuspecting victims who are then indoctrinated into the connections teachings. And then once indoctrinated, the enterprise encourages these vulnerable people, these victims to commit a legal, acts on others. It's shocking when you think about it. So in other words, it turns the victim into the perpetrator. And all of this is in pursuit of power and profit. The suit claims that, quote, Hildebrand and other members of the racketeering enterprise, including the defendants,

prey on individuals in vulnerable positions who are seeking legitimate mental health services, and then indoctrinates these individuals to become members of the enterprise. instructing associates to perpetuate child abuse, child torture, and physiological abuse on any individual in their lives not deemed in what Hildebrandt has coined as truth, as in aligning with Hildebrand's will, end quote. The suit explains Jody's self-coined term of distortion and truth as her belief that anyone who is in distortion should be punished until they come into truth. Distortion is essentially bad thinking or bad behavior, while truth means doing what Jody deems as the right thing.

So whatever Jody says. She's the end all, be all to truth. So many of you know this word is shame. I started using the shame word for probably, I don't know, five years. And people were having the hardest time wrapping their head around shame, what shame was. And I was teaching about shame. And I went to God and I said, People can't understand the word shame.

Do you have another word? Can you give me another word? And I heard one day distorting the truth. And I was like, brilliant. Distortion. It discusses how Jody essentially gains the trust of her clients, aka victims. And then eventually Jody demands that they accept

that only Jody is the one who can help them. And the only way to do this is, quote, through inflicting pain, punishment, and even physical torture onto others. end quote. So this isn't completely shocking to me. It's upsetting, very upsetting, but shocking, no. We've heard this before from Adam Paul Steed. He interviewed with us at Hidden Chew Crime just after Jody and Ruby were arrested. And Adam says he was a victim of Jody very early on. Jody Hildebrand, which my ex went to the Honor Code office and started talking about

into all their disciples that they were bringing in, because I didn't handle my addiction and didn't do their program. My whole life was destroyed and I was going to prison for abuse. Wow. And when I was in chains and an orange jumpsuit, I looked across the room, I saw all the new recruits of the new wives sitting there with my ex-wife and Jody watching and smiles and smirks on their face.

Jody Juniors. Jody Juniors. Yeah, yeah. I don't realize that I was the one that was free. We will get into Adam's story a little later on in this episode, but I want to introduce him now because I think his story backs up this idea that for years, Jody has been destroying lives by convincing people. She is the only person who can help him. The only person. So back to Savage and Tillman now. Let's get into their relationship. According to the lawsuit, Tillman, the plaintiff, is another one of Jody's victims just like Adam Paul Steed.

And like I mentioned, Tillman and his ex-wife Savage were married when Savage started seeing Jody back in 2015. Now, at that point, they had a little girl. And according to the suit, it didn't take very long for his ex-wife Savage to be completely sucked into Jody's teachings. What started as just getting marriage and personal counseling quickly turned into Savage becoming a loyal member, a loyal follower of connections, and an even more loyal follower of Jody Hildebrand. The suit allege is that Savage and Jody worked together to conspire and actually create marital problems between Tillman and Savage so that he too would become a member of connections and invest in the program, which worked. actually. And he eventually did just that. Tillman joined connections. It began in early 2016, before Jody even met Tillman, and Jody began telling his wife Savage during their separate therapy sessions that Tillman had a pornography addiction. Jody even instructed Savage to do a scan of Tillman's

computer to which absolutely nothing was found because the addiction, well, it did not exist. But regardless of nothing being found, Tillman's wife told him that if he wasn't addicted to porn, well, then he must be addicted to something else and that he needed to enroll and pay for the Connections 12-step addiction program or else Savage would divorce him. And with that ultimatum, Tillman finally complied. But then just three months later in May, Jody demanded that the husband and wife separate, not divorce. She's not asking Tillman and Savage to divorce. Jody is just saying, hey, you know what, why don't you two separate for a little bit? And if you know, Jody, you know this is something we've heard before.

All of Adam Paul Steed that we mentioned already. And as well as Ruby Frankie and her husband, Kevin Frankie. Jody separates and Jody conquers. And once Tillman and Savage separated, Tillman's time with his little girl, his 18-month-old daughter, who I will refer to throughout this episode as E.J., Well, all of a sudden, Tillman's time with E.J. was severely restricted. Once again, this is the usual pattern that we've seen with Jody Hildebrand and with connections. At first, Tillman was able to see

his little girl E.J. for two hours every other day. And then it turned into six hours every Saturday. Keep in mind that at this time, they were still married. So there wasn't any enforceable custody order that Tillman could rely on. Savage demanded that Tillman do the five. or else she would file for divorce. Number one, this is what, according to the lawsuit, Savage required of Tillman. Number one, he needed to attend the Connections 101 class to learn principles of truth in a group setting. Number two, experience godly sorrow for every neglecting and abusive behavior, be able to articulate what godly sorrow means and describe what your godly sorrow has felt like for every abusive behavior. Number three.

find and utilize a sponsor and be able to identify and eliminate pride, manipulation, codependent, and controlling tendencies. Four, identify the harmful behaviors you experienced in your family of origin and emotionally damaging behaviors which are current within that family. Also, prove to me, prove, that's such a word, prove to me by your actions that you will sever yourself from these behaviors and lifestyles. So basically, spend money on connections, adhere to Jody's principles, isolate from your own family, and admit to things that Tillman has never done.

Around two months later, his wife sent Tillman an email that read, quote, Mike, what I hear you say is the bad Mike is dead and the good Mike is in full swing. I will hold you accountable for your behaviors to align with what you are saying. If you are where you say you are, you will be willing to step into the truth and stay there. Partnered with God, I will be the judge of where you are. And although I am so hopeful about what you say, your behaviors will be the real manifestation of it. When you come home, I hope you are prepared to show me in your actions. You are in real recovery, end quote.

That same month, which was July of 2016, there happened to be a family vacation to Canada. us scheduled. However, Tillman became so sick with a respiratory infection that he wasn't able to travel and they had to extend their family vacation by a week, you know, probably because he needed to rest. But in his wife's eyes and Jody's eyes, that meant he was in distortion. And his wife threatened that he wouldn't have a home when he came back. So in other words, if you have a respiratory infection, probably because you're in distortion. And when he told her that the most important thing to him was that they live their religion together, which was the LDS or Mormon faith, Savage responded to Tillman by telling him that the most important thing to her was being married to someone that

lives Jody Hildebrand's principles. I mean, tell me you're a cult without telling me you're a cult. And when Tillman brought up concerns about how much money they were spending as it related to Jody and connections. Well, she responded by saying that she was willing to spend all of their money on it. Once again, seemingly proving this undying devotion that the members of connections have when it comes to the business and Jody herself. Tillman told Savage his concerns about Jody, destroying their marriage and beg to see another counselor, any counselor besides Jody. But she refused. She also told him that the only way she would stay married to him is, quote, if he declared unwavering allegiance to Jody Hildebrand's methodology, end quote.

The lawsuit then draws the comparison to Adam Paul Steed's story and how this exact same thing happened to Adam Paul Steed with his ex-wife while she was working with Jody. Savage and Tillman remain separated but still married. And in September of 2016, Tillman was invited to Arizona to see his mom. mom for her birthday and Labor Day. But his wife convinced him that seeing his mother would be abusive and that if he did that, he would not be able to see his daughter. So in other words,

pick one, your mother or your daughter. So Tillman skipped the trip. Despite doing what his wife demanded him to do in order to have visitation with E.J., Savage still with health visitation. Shortly after this, she completely cut him off from seeing their daughter for weeks. And despite his pleas, she simply sent him a message saying, quote, Michael, I can imagine how hard this is. It must be very frustrating and painful, end quote. At Jody's direction, she also convinced him to see a different therapist named Ted Jureen. And once again, threatening divorce if he did not. Most people don't realize how much their personal information is being bought and sold

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did not give permission for his records to be shared with his wife. But the suit alleges that despite that Ted falsified records about consent and then provided his wife with all of the records. Having no other options in October of 2016, Tillman filed for divorce and an emergency order to enforce his parental rights. And it seemed to cause his wife to change her tune, actually. And for all about 24 hours, Savage went from begging him to stay and agreeing that they could go to their church for help instead of Jody to then meeting with Jody the next morning and completely reversing that agreement right after the meeting. And her reasoning, well, her reasoning was, quote, her girls needed her, end quote. Who are the girls? She's referring to members of connections. Once again, putting connections

over family, which we have seen time and time again. And also, as a side note, I find it interesting she referred to them as her girls because Ruby did the same thing. Savage even sent Tillman a text message saying, quote, I know there is no way to change if you avoid the pain or shut down from feeling it. people who enable you to not feel the consequence of your actions don't really love you. That is what I did when we live together. The most loving thing I've ever done for you is to separate and no longer enable you. The pain is what makes this strong enough to never commit the sin again. I know we will never have that strength to change unless we feel the pain.

I give it as my personal opinion that I believe you haven't really felt that because I've seen you shut down from feeling pain. and I haven't seen that you felt the joy of repentance. That makes me sad. I know what joy is waiting for you and that you have chosen not to enjoy it, end quote. Well, Tillman divorcing his ex-wife only seemed to make her fall deeper into the connections method. And according to this suit, Savage began taking things out on little E.J., who is now 10. I want to warn you that the things you're about to hear draw similar parallels to Ruby Frankie's two youngest kids in the abuse

they suffered at her hands. The suit alleges that in 2017, shortly after Tillman filed for divorce, E.J. began, quote, returning from Savage with unusual injuries, including without limitation, a laceration spanning E.J.'s entire right hamstring, a large, dark bruise inside her thigh, a dark purple bruise over a whole toenail, and long lacerations on her chin and neck, end quote. In September of 2017, E.J. came back with a large bruise next to her eye. Tillman was so concerned that he immediately got police involved at the station where they did their custodial exchanges. And when police talked with E.J. E.J. stated, quote, mommy did it, end quote. Which prompted the police to get DCFS involved.

When Savage found out about this, she told E.J. not to talk about what happened to her. A few months later, Tillman went to his ex-wife with concerns about E.J. being dehydrated as her urine had been super dark after returning from her mom's house. For the previous five or six visits, this was a repetitive thing. And so after he requested the Savage, completely ignored that message. And then a few months later, E.J. went to her dad's with another bruise around her eye. When the police were yet again involved and asked Savage what happened, she told them that E.J. fell on a banister. Well, shortly after that, E.J. came to her dad's with a large bruise on her hip and a laceration through it. And then that same month, E.J. called her dad while she was at her moms in a manner that the suit alleges as distressed. On that video call, she had, quote,

large bruises around her right eye on her right cheek, under her left eye and under her lip, end quote. When Tillman contacted his ex-wife Savage about taking her in for medical care to make sure she didn't have a brain injury? Well, Savage told him that the injuries were not serious and he would not let him take her in. When EJ returned to her dad's, he immediately took her in to be seen by a doctor. EJ told the doctor that Amir fell on her face and that her hip was injured by falling on the sidewalk. The doctor did feel like things were not adding up and so the doctor then got DCFS involved. Savage tried telling DCFS that the cut under EJ's lip was just a rash. She told them that EJ only had one bruise by her eye when she in fact did have two.

And while EJ said that she hurt her hip by falling on the sidewalk, Savage told DCFS that she actually fell off an ottoman, which the doctor treating her did not believe was possible as an Ottoman as close to the ground. In regards to the mirror, Savage initially said that it was 20 pounds and then later, well, she changed it to being 60 pounds. Once again, the doctor did. did not believe that Amir caused those injuries to little E.J. And Savage herself later testified that she, quote, may have, end quote, told E.J. To tell her dad that Amir fell on her. A few weeks after all of that, E.J. then went to her dad's, and she had a welt on her forehead that was covered by a bandaid.

Chilman once again took her to the doctor to be checked out. Well, the following year, which puts us at November 2019, E.J. showed up at her dad's with yet another facial injury. This time, a goose egg on her forehead with a laceration through it. When Tillman took her to be checked out, the doctor said E.J. stated that she was playing on some large rocks and she fell forward and bumped her head. She is unable to tell me what happened, the doctor said. A couple months after that, she showed up at her dad's with her. a large dark bruise that covered nearly her entire upper right hamstring. After consulting with the Children's Justice Center, the ER doctor was instructed to contact

DCFS due to the size and location of the injury. The suit states, quote, medical providers could not determine if E.J. has a recollection or is inventing a story about her injuries saying, bruising is not consistent with what E.J. is saying and bruising on E.J.'s upper buttocks or lower back is not consistent with falling on a sidewalk. End quote. The suit goes on to say that the alleged harm towards E.J. is still currently happening. Did you hear that? The suit alleges that the harm towards E.J. is still allegedly happening. She has recently come back to her dads with dark bruises and cuts on her thigh, wrist, cheek, and temple. At one point, she came back with a

severe sunburn. If you remember, Ruby's children also had severe sunburns after being forced to work outside in the southern Utah desert heat, triple digits, as a punishment. When Tillman went to the court about all of this and E.J. returned to his house, she had yet another bruise on her face, this time her cheek. She was hiding in her room and crying, but she would not tell her dad what was upsetting her. Eventually, E.J. admitted it was because her mom hurt her after Tillman brought all of these injuries to like, and Savage blamed E.J. for her injuries. Because of the ongoing harm being inflicted on E.J. in the care of her mom, the suit claims that for years, E.J. would scream, cry, and hide so she did not have to go to her moms,

saying she hated her. This began when she was a toddler, and there were times that she would be so inconsolable that Savage would call Tillman to talk to E.J. Or even have him meet them to calm her down. She would also scream at her mom telling her to leave and even go as far as hitting her. When Tillman was fighting for the care and safety of his daughter, at the time he really wasn't aware that everything happening was part of Jody's teachings. That wasn't until the summer of 2023 when the news of Ruby and Jody's arrest finally came to light. And that's when all of a sudden he thought, wait a minute.

But despite that arrest, sentencing, and the admission of crimes by Ruby and Jody, Savage still seems to be completely wrapped up in the teachings of Jody and connections. After news of the arrest came to light, Tillman reached out to her seven different times with concerns. And I have them all here. They're listed in this lawsuit. So on September 1st, 2023, so this would be just a little over a week after the arrest of Ruby and Jody. Tillman texted Savage saying, quote, Ms. Hildebri was arrested on two counts of intentional aggravated child abuse. With that, I think it's in E.J.'s best interest to not utilize her teaching with E.J. in any way. End quote. Savage responded by saying the Jody wasn't this issue,

and he was the issue. Tillman was the issue because he reported the harm that E.J. had suffered. Tillman responded saying, quote, can you confirm that you will not utilize Ms. Hildebrand's teachings with E.J. Using her teachings would be concerning seeing she has been charged with two counts of intentional aggravated child abuse, the most severe type of child abuse per statute. A pediatrician indicated injuries to EJ could only be explained by abuse. And the pediatrician indicated you were untruthful with DCFS multiple times in the investigation, end quote. Well, Savage didn't respond. She ignored the message, but three days later, Tillman texted her after finding out more charges have been filed against Jody, saying, quote, Ms. Hildebrand has now been charged with six instead of two counts of intentional aggravated child abuse. Because she encourages intentional aggravated child abuse in her teachings, could you let me know if you still consider that one must accept her teachings to be in truth? And if you will continue to utilize her teachings with E.J. And quote. Well, once again, Savage told him Jody wasn't the issue. Tillman's reporting was.

On December 27th, after Ruby and Jody took a plea, Tillman texted Savage again saying, quote, Tilderbrand and Frankie pled guilty to four counts of second degree felony child abuse, admitting to physically torturing Frankie's 12 year old son and indoctrinating two of Frankie's children, both under 12 years old. I believe E.J. is unsafe with you if you maintain your commitment to Hildebrand and her teachings. If you continue to refuse to disavow Hildebrandt, we need to come to a custodial arrangement where E.J. is not in further danger of physical harm from you, end quote. Savage, ignored him. After sentencing in February, where Ruby talked about Jody, Tillman sent another message saying, quote, at her sentence hearing, Frankie described that the principles that you are using with E.J. Hildebrand's teachings as dark and dangerous, and quote, followed by another text saying, quote, are you willing to- Most people don't realize how much their personal information is being bought and sold every day.

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all backed by 24-7 U.S.-based fraud support. Other companies might sell just credit monitoring or just a VPN. ORA gives you all of it, together, at the same price competitors charge for just one service. Start your free trial today at Aura.com slash remove. Protect yourself now at aura.com slash remove. To stop using these dangerous principles and teachings with EJ and in our co-parenting, end quote, Savage did not respond. And then last March, after all this evidence was released in the case,

Tillman texted Savage again saying, quote, the body cam video of when Frankie's children were rescued was released today, and it was heartbreaking. E.J. and I have suffered from these same tactics for years from you following Hildebrand. Am I correct in understanding that you are unwilling to disavow Hildebrand's teachings with E.J. And in our co-parenting and even after seeing this child abuse, end quote. And what was Savage's response? Nothing. three days later he sent another message that was again ignored it said quote hildebrandt's jail calls show she still believes in the torture of children as normal parenting this concerns me with how religiously you look to her in treating me and e jay can you please confirm you will not use hildebrand's abuse of teachings with e jay and in our co-parenting end quote seemingly none of those messages sent by Tillman to his ex-wife had any effect. It's also important to note that

Savage is now remarried to someone referred to in the lawsuit as Washburn. Hence, her name being listed in the suit as Michael Savage Washburn. Her husband, who we will refer to as Washburn, her new husband, is apparently also into connections and Hildebrand's teachings. And to top it all off based on social media searches. It seems like the two of them now have a young son together. So two children. And together, according to the lawsuit, Washburn and Savage may be continuing to indoctrinate E.J. with the connections and Hildebrand teachings. In July of 2023, Washburn and Savage created a secret email so that they could communicate with E.J. while she was at her dad's. E.J. later said that in those email messages, her mom would convince her to say

false positive things about her and false negative things about her dad. The suit also alleges that Savage coerced E.J. to tell Tillman's new wife, her stepmom, that her dad abuses women. Savage also allegedly requested a full rundown of E.J.'s time with her dad, and at one point even had E.J. take a confidential, financial document from her dad's house. house to give to her. Now, pivoting for a moment, I did do my own investigative research upon this suit being announced, and I did find some documents from Tillman and Savage's divorce. The divorce painted Tillman in extremely bad light, and he essentially lost in a bench trial back in 2021. However, that was recently overturned. So based on this suit, Savage is a huge believer in

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is this mental fitness trainer. So Ruby, you want to tell us about what a mental fitness trainer is? Yes. So we are getting mentally fit the same way your body would get physically fit by running and lifting weights and working with a personal trainer. We are getting ready to be your mental fitness trainer. We're getting truth, really easy to teach. We're making it very simple, boiling it down to principles.

That's how you're going to understand truth. there's really knowing principles, being able to put words to it and help you, and you're going to feel so much better. Absolutely. The suit states mental fitness trainers act to further the objectives of the enterprise by selling the enterprise's fraudulent services, indoctrinating members and victims, and promulgating the objectives of the enterprise, end quote. So in other words, let's just call them Jody's Little Minions and right-hand people that work

to bring more people into connections. Ruby Frankie was one of those so-called mental fitness trainers who recruited others into Jody's teachings. From May 2016 to July 2016, Savage repeatedly contacted her former sister-in-law, Jessica Blanche, who was Tillman's brother's now ex-wife, if you followed that. So Tillman's brothers, now ex-wife, but at this point, they were married. And Jessica was contacted by Savage, to join connections. The suit alleges that Savage committed wire fraud by calling Blanche over 20 times while she was in Idaho, and Savage was in Utah, all for the purpose of getting her to join connections. At the time, Savage told Tillman that she was provided by God to save Jessica Blanche

and her husband's marriage. Savage told Blanche that Tillman's brother was in distortion and that Blanche needed to inflict pain on him. According to the suit, Blanche became all in on the connection's teachings and then began beating her husband. This is all in the suit, claims in the suit. And at one point, she even ripped his shirt off and tried to attack him with a knife. After severely bruising, biting, and scratching her husband, Blanche was arrested and charged. She was charged with domestic battery. But before and after the incident, Savage told Blanche that she was justified. because he, her husband was in distortion and the pain would bring him into truth. Well, after that marriage ended and Tillman's brother was luckily in a new relationship,

Savage tried to recruit that woman who was also in Idaho into connections. So the new relationship. The suit alleges she stalked him and the woman. So she stalked her ex-husband's brother and his new relationship to find out that they were dating and then further states, quote, Savage monitored and surveyed the personal affairs of Tillman's brother and this romantic partner through regularly monitoring their activities, so surveillingsing them, monitoring their dating life, social media posts, and the progression of their private relationship, including asserting that they were a romantic couple,

which resulted in Tillman's brother and his romantic partner fearing for their safety after determining that an individual unknown to this romantic partner constantly monitored their personal affairs. Savage even allegedly sent her messages saying that God had told her that Tillman's brother would kill her, and that if she listened, God would tell her the same thing. So the suit lists several victims of connections over the years, including Jody's niece, Jesse Hildebrand, Adam Paul Steed, Dave Bateman, and Spencer Tibitz. When Jesse was a child, they were subject to severe physical and emotional abuse by their Aunt Jody. Some of that included being forced to run up and down a mountain for six hours with people at the

bottom ensuring they couldn't escape, restraining them with duct tape, forcing them to sleep outside in the snow, and accusing Jesse of being addicted to explicit content and masturbation. And remember, they were just a child. In regards to Adam Paul Steed, Adam and his wife sought marriage counseling from Jody in 2008. Like Jesse, Jody accused Adam of being addicted to explicit content and masturbation. There were times that Adam and his wife were paying Jody up to $2,000 a month on treatment fees.

When Jody told him he needed to triple down on the amount of therapy sessions and Adam refused because that's a lot of money, Jody essentially went to town in an effort to destroy Adam's life. Jody and Adam's wife conspire together to accuse him of. sexually abusing a small child. And similar to Tillman's experience, Adam received demands from his wife at the time, at the direction of Jody, to keep his marriage together, which included, quote, remaining in the enterprise, paying the enterprise at thousands of dollars per month for fraudulent unnecessary services and a requirement that

Adam could not see other therapists, end quote. Jody then gave false information about Adam's counseling sessions with her to leaders in his church, honor code officials. At the university, he was attending, BYU, and two other therapists. Because of Jody's unethical behavior, Adam ended up going through a divorce, lost church privileges, and was temporarily suspended from his university. Eventually, Jody ended up having her license revoked for 18 months,

or I guess not revoked, excuse me, put on probation. Jody never actually had her license revoked until she was convicted with, you know, aggravated child abuse. But for a moment, her license was on probation for 18 months because of Adam Paul Steed. And it was due to her unethical ways with Adam. Dave Bateman was another alleged victim of Jody, Hilda Brand,

who actually sued her for $300,000 in 2019. Well, Dave and his wife sought counseling through Jody. When he realized that they weren't helping his marriage, these counseling sessions, he ended the counseling, and soon he and his wife filed for divorce. Not only did Jody work with Dave's ex-wife to conspire a child abuse, plot against him in court, but she also instructed his ex-wife to go to law enforcement about Dave and claiming that he was harming their children, and Jody herself even falsely

reported him for harming his own children. In fact, some of you might remember Paige Hannah. Page was a mental fitness trainer at Connections and worked very closely with Jody and Ruby. Well, back in 2017, Dave filed a civil suit for stalking against Paige Hanna. The suit ended up being dismissed, but it is on court record that Page had in fact assisted with putting a tracking device on Dave's car and following him. Spencer Tibbitts. That's another victim of connections according to this lawsuit. Back in 2018, while he was a minor, his parents hired Jody to be his counselor. Well, Jody put him in a men's group that was for pornography, lust, and sex addiction. This was despite the fact that Spencer had never even viewed

explicit images, nor did he even know what they were at the time. Spencer was on a group call one day that Jody made him be a part of when a group member described incest fantasies to him. Keep in mind, he was still a minor, so it was illegal to force him to even participate in conversations of this nature. What were some of those sessions like for you as a 21-year-old now looking back at your 16-year-old self? Well, at the time, it was especially because of how locked down things were at my house after we started therapy with Jody. It was like the first outside connection I had. So on that hand, it was interesting, a little bit entertaining sometimes to listen to these guys. But as an adult looking back at that now, it's horribly disturbing.

I can't imagine answering the phone and hearing a squeaky little kid's voice and being like, yeah, you know, I have a porn addiction or, you know. all of the conversations that I had. It was a 45-minute call every day for a few weeks with a different person each time. Well, and, you know, honestly, Brian, looking back, I would think your blood would be boiling when you discovered some of the things that Jody had exposed your son to. Absolutely. And I didn't know that my children were in sessions with Jody. I was separated from my wife and children with the line drawn in the sand that if I had any contact with my wife or children, my ex-wife would divorce me. Let's be honest. Buying cannabis shouldn't be complicated, sketchy, or low quality. That's why I want to tell you about mood.com.

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and invited them over in the temporary space where I was living, found out what was going on. I told them all then, you're not going back to Jody. I don't want you to go back and you don't have to if you don't want to. and they resoundingly all three said, please, we don't want to go back.

So despite all of this evidence of harmful and manipulative teachings from Connections, the question remains. How much of it is still happening while Jody is behind bars? Well, according to this lawsuit, the answer is clear. The company is continuing to function

while Connections website has been deactivated. That much is true. And that definitely limits the amount of people. who can hear about Jody and fall into the destructive teachings. There are people like Savage who have been invested in Jody's teachings and in connections for years, and they continue to be. Meaning there is no doubt that people are still getting fed, false narratives, and lies about the so-called self-help group.

In fact, Jody has specifically talked about continuing connections to some degree upon her release. Ryan, I know this sounds crazy and I still can't be. and I still can't put my finger on why it feels this way. But it feels like I was being set up to end up here. I know that sounds bizarre. I mean, I should be here. I haven't done anything wrong. Right, right, but my goodness. You have one minute remaining for this home.

No, run out of time. But it was like everything got taken out of the house and it's in the storage unit so that I could come to jail. It sounds crazy, but it's... but it feels that way. I don't know if it'd be like some kind of example, but when I get out of here, I have a story to tell, and I am going to try to do everything I can to protect the children

because that's what's happening. It's that kids are being horribly abused. Yeah, absolutely. Instead of the kids, anyways, it's a story, but when you come over to that. Yeah, that's, Jody's got plans after her release. The lawsuit states Jody has no regard for the law. She has no regard for what is and isn't abuse. She participated in bounding children with rope and duct taping them and putting cayenne pepper and honey on their wounds that were inflicted as a result of her actions.

She specifically teaches the people in her group that they do not need to follow the laws of the land because the laws can be, quote, distortion, end quote. The suit provides a specific example of this stating. An example of this occurred in a video in which Hildebrand instructs a woman and by implication all women and mothers to violate a father's paternal rights. In the video, despite recognizing a father's legal right to be with his child, Hildebrandt instructs this woman to cut off her ex-romantic partner from their child because the law is in distortion. quote, I understand why the law does this because there's so much deception going on that the law doesn't know what the truth is. They don't know who's telling the truth. End quote.

Well, I have some thoughts before I continue. There have been many co-leaders that have continued to run their cults from behind bars, Warren Jeffs being one of them. He ran the FLDS polygamist group while serving a life sentence for sexually harming minors. Despite his conviction and similarly to Jody, he's been able to maintain some control of the group and has loyal followers who, as a result of his brainwashing, vehemently deny that he has done anything wrong. So if what this lawsuit claims is true, this is no different than Jody exerting her power and cult behind bars, which continues to harm and hurt people, including children. So what exactly is this suit alleging? And what exactly is this suit

seeking. Well, first off, the lawsuit specifically says each defendant has engaged in a pattern of wire fraud and therefore a pattern of racketeering activity. It goes on to say that the defendants have collectively engaged in thousands of instances of wire fraud, but individually they have all engaged in hundreds. Going on to state, in furtherance of their scheme, and as described herein, defendants transmitted or caused to be transmitted by means. of wire communication in interstate or foreign commerce, writings, signs, signals, pictures, and sounds, including, but not limited to the following. A, thousands of social media wire transmissions on YouTube, Instagram, Spotify, Acast, Apple,

podcast, Facebook, and Zoom, among others, that furthered the enterprise by attempting to recruit individuals to the enterprise and induce them to pay for the enterprise's fraudulent services. B, upon interstate telephone wires to stock, liable, threatening, and harassed plaintiff and his family to coerce the plaintiff to join the enterprise and to punish him when he refused to do so. C. Thousands of wire transfers via credit and or debit cards when fraudulently charging victims. It claims the, quote, objective of the enterprise is to lure members and victims into purchasing services and products from connections to better one's life.

Once in the door, though, Tilda Brandt's diagnosis victims, with false pathologies and fake psychological disorders to entice them into purchasing fraudulent and unnecessary coaching therapy counseling and self-help services from the enterprise. In furtherance of the objective of the enterprise, Hilderant also instructs members to utilize tactics of manipulation, physical abuse, psychological abuse, and isolation to keep members and victims within the enterprise and brainwash victims into, leaving they need to continually invest money into the enterprise through purchasing services

and products from connections to heal themselves and their relationships with others. Another tactic of the enterprise is to employ manipulation and abuse against individuals who reject the enterprise to disincentivize members from leaving the enterprise, end quote. More specifically, the suit alleges that between at least 2008 in July of 2023, so we're that's 15 years, we're talking 15 years, Jody engaged in at least 785 acts of wire fraud. At least 732 acts were committed when hosting and publishing the Connections podcast, at least 27 or when hosting and participating in Connections couples panels, 15 acts where when teaching Connections Masterclass via Zoom, at least seven occasions when teaching and speaking at Connections

conferences and at least four occasions through her website, Instagram, and or podcast. podcast. However, it is believed that Jody committed even more. In fact, thousands of acts of wire fraud through social media, but that is hard to prove because the Connections channel on YouTube was deleted and the Moms of Truth Facebook group was limited to members only. The last thing about Jody's acts of wire fraud states, upon information and belief, Hildebrand engaged in thousands of additional acts of wire fraud because she fraudulently charged and enterprise victims via credit and or debit cards for services and products sold by connections, end quote.

Then it moves on to Ruby, who was alleged to have committed at least 298 acts of wire fraud. At least 244 of those were hosting and publishing the Connections podcast. At least 15 were serving as a panelist on Connections panels. And 31 were through advertising connections on Instagram. and then at the very least four were while she was speaking at Connections conferences and retreats. Similarly to Jody, the suit alleges that she also engaged in thousands of additional acts through social media. Prior to each of these acts being committed, Jody and Ruby would agree to commit the acts. That's an important part of this lawsuit. They would agree to do this

beforehand. Now, moving on to Savage, Savage is accused of committing at least 334 acts. This specifically states, quote, specifically. And upon information and belief, Savage engaged in federal wire fraud on at least 36 occasions when she attempted to curse Tillman to purchase fraudulent services and products from connections and to join the enterprise when she attempted to recruit other members to the enterprise and convince them to purchase fraudulent services and products from connections. And when she stocked and or harassed Tillman and his family as punishment for not joining the enterprise and for refusing to purchase fraudulent services and or products from connections,

end quote. Then it states, quote, Savage also used interstate and or foreign wires to send at least 296 messages to E.J., all of which further the objectives of the enterprise by attempting to coerce E.J. to live by the enterprise's principles under Hilderrant's methodology, and quote. And like Ruby, Jody and Savage also agreed the Savage would do all of those things before she did them. Connections itself is alleged to have committed at least 1,009 acts of wire fraud. 732 instances when Jody hosted the Connections podcast. 244 instances when Ruby hosted the Connections podcast, 27 instances via the Connections couples, panels, 15 instances via the Connections

a masterclass and 13 at Connections conferences and then add in thousands of others on social media which are no longer available for public viewing. But then there's a fourth person listed as committing acts of wire fraud. And what is her name? Well, her name is Pam Botcher. Pam is accused of engaging in at least 22 acts of federal wire fraud and at least 16 while teaching Connections Masterclass, at least two when teaching at Connections, conferences and retreats, and then at least four through the Connections Instagram page. The suit states that Pam also allegedly engaged in thousands of additional instances of wire fraud because, well, as the president of Connections Foundation, Pam almost exclusively and fraudulently charged enterprise victims via credit and or debit cards

for services and products sold by Connections. Well, and speaking of Pam Botcher, who is Pam? Well, not only was Pam the president of Connections, but she was also Jody's best friend for over two decades. This was a long relationship. She was also the person who Ruby's two other minor children were staying with when their little brother escaped and the subsequent arrest happened.

Take a look. Yeah, that's my wife. Is your wife? She's here? Hi. Hello, Pam, how are you doing? Good. I'm Officer Hawkins, the American Fork Police Department. Hi.

So, we had an agency assist out of St. George in Springville that we're just looking for. Okay. When you picked her up, what was the case? Is somebody asked you to pick her up, or did you just pick her up? What was going on? Well, I'm having guests coming, and she came and did some cleaning for me. Some cleaning for you? Is she?

Do you work? Right now in the house. I'm a living room right here. Okay, great. We're gonna have both of you come out here then. If you can, just for a second. We just had to go over some stuff. You have a warrant?

Yeah, we do. Let me see it, please. So, it's in my car, but right now, my concern is... Are you just telling you're alright? Yeah. We have to physically see her. Under the doorway. We'll go ahead and get the copy of the warrant for you, okay?

You have a warrant for my house? Specifically for you. Yeah, for you and the child. Yeah. Okay. So, as of right now, I'll just need you to give your phone to your husband. Okay. Okay.

And as of this moment, you're going to be detained right now, okay? Okay. So what does that mean? Is there anything on you? No. Okay, perfect. Just put your hands in front of you, okay? Just going to place you temporarily under the rest.

Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. I'll explain to you. What are you doing? I've explained this already. I'm being as courteous as I can, okay. Okay, well, I'm going to close you. That's all the attorney. That's fine.

I don't know what's going to know what this is all about. Okay. So I'm going to explain to you when we get to the car. Yes. I just explained to you that you're being detained right now. Her parents were in the situation of a child abuse allegation. Okay. DCFS made the report and went to the house and found children malnourged and locked in a safe.

In a safe? In a safe. Okay. So now those officers and DCFS and the police officers and the police officers and the house and the house and found the house and up to cussing those children and we're looking for this one. The rec center, when they went to go find her, said that you picked her up. Yeah, I did. So now they are trying to figure out why you picked her up, what you know with her.

Is she okay? Is she, did she come here willingly? All that kind of stuff. Okay. Yeah, they can ask her that. So as soon as they come here, we'll be on our way. Okay. Okay.

That's why I said you're just detained. You are not placed under arrest just right now until the, they figure out what's going on with their part. Okay? Okay. So as long as she's not tied up and bound because you do something, you know. I didn't make her scrub the floor and they vacuumed and stuff because I have company coming tonight out of, from Costa Rica. Okay.

So, but she did have our own free will. We had lunch. Yeah. We went to Raleigh's farm and had ice cream. Those children are, I don't know the full details of how mistreated or how malted. or how malnourished those children are. All I know is that's the words in treatment that they used. Yeah.

Which means that they are severely concerned of her well-being and every child that's in that home. Okay. So they'll just have to talk to her. Because there has been, I've been a part of many DCFS cases where as soon as the parents are hooked up, kids are taken. If there's any kids that aren't in the home immediately

when the kids are taking, guess what? They're scurring around. All the family members are picking them up that way. The parent can come back and grab one. DCFS takes them. Oh, yeah. I'm telling you, you may be a good person, but there's a lot of people in this world that part. Right. Well, if DCFS is supposed to take her, then they can take her. I mean, I, I'm not going to try to fight that. I mean, I, well, what else do we know about Pam Botcher? She was also a participant in the pen papers, pen papers is a collection of visions and prophecies by

Jody. And Pam is believed to have taken and protected the pen papers from police. At her sentencing, Ruby specifically talked to Pam and to Pam's husband, saying, quote, My dear friends, Pam and Roy, I'm so sorry for letting you down because of your association with me, your innocence was called into question, end quote. Since Jody and Ruby's convictions, many people have called out Pam's involvement in connections that has seemingly, for the most part, flown under the radar. Many have wondered if Pam was essentially an accessory for what was happening, and this lawsuit certainly implies her involvement was deep. The suit further claims that the defendants participated in the scheme of the enterprise knowingly, willfully, and with a specific intent to deceive and or defraud, Tillman, and others. It says the defendants knowingly misrepresented

the nature and consequences of the enterprise's objective under Hildebrandt's methodology to gain fraudulent revenue, stating, quote, specifically defendants induced individuals to obtain services and products from connections for the financial benefit of the enterprise, knowing that Hildebrandt would falsely diagnose victims with non-existent pathologies and or mental health disorders to induce victims to spend money on connections, fraudulent services, and products to the financial benefit of the enterprise. The suit also alleges monetary transactions involving rack, racketeering proceeds saying that Jody engaged in a pattern of engaging in monetary transactions in property derived from specific unlawful activity and therefore a pattern of racketeering activity.

It specifically lists her house where Ruby's youngest children were held captive as being obtained by using criminally derived property, aka she used the funds she got from defrauding others to buy her multi-million dollar house of horrors. It goes on to state, quote, Hildebrandt's purchase of the Ivan's residence affects interstate and foreign commerce because, one, Hildebrand and Frankie extensively use the Ivans residence to film videos and record podcasts for the enterprise, which are broadcast. And two, Hildebrandt and Frankie use the Ivans residence to create content for the

enterprise's various fraudulent services and products, including without limitation, training videos, classes, and written content, all of which the enterprise charged members located across the United States and or internationally to purchase, end quote. The next section is forced labor. And the suit alleges Jody, Ruby, and Pam, Jody, Ruby, and Pam, all engaged in criminal forced labor and therefore a pattern of racketeering. The forced labor was against Ruby's four minor children. The two who were found in Jody's house and the other two who were found in Pam's house. At Pams, they were busy cleaning the entire botcher residence. The two youngest children were forced to do physical tasks like

carrying loaded boxes up and downstairs and sitting against a wall without a chair or stool for hours at a time. They were also forced to work outside in the summer heat without shoes and socks which caused those extreme sunburns. And might I remind you, this is near death valley? We are talking not just triple digits, but like it can be 110, 115, and there are no trees for shade near Jody Hildebrand's house. A prosecutor compared the conditions that the two children were found in to a concentration camp. Pam Botcher is listed because according to the lawsuit, Pam was involved in torturing Jody's niece Jesse Hildebrand when Jesse was a child, and Pam allegedly enforced and in court. encouraged forced labor. It also states that Ruby's two children, Jay and A, who were teenagers

at the time of the arrest, again, they were the ones down to Pam's, were routinely starved themselves, or they witnessed their siblings being starved as a result of distortion. The next section of the suit is titled improper use of racketeering proceeds, seeing that Pam and Jody likely were involved in money laundering by engaging in improper transfer of monetary instruments. So to explain that in simple terms, in January of 2024, a freeze was put on Jody's assets so that nothing could be messed with prior to restitution being settled for Ruby's two youngest children that were severely abused. But in that court order, the court identified Pam as being someone possibly involved in hiding Jody's property and Jody's money. And all of those

funds and assets, Jody was trying to hide, were obtained through her illegal activities, including wire fraud. The suit claims, quote, Hildebrand and Botcher conducted these financial transactions for the purpose of operating the enterprise's racketeering scheme by allowing Hildebrand to have sufficient funds after or during her incarceration to continue carrying on the unlawful affairs of the enterprise, end quote. It goes on to say, that prior to Jody's arrest, Jody went to Arizona at least twice, looking to buy property with her racketeering proceeds.

This new property was going to be a place for her to continue to torture Ruby's youngest two children and also create content for the enterprise's various fraudulent services, including training videos, classes, and bring content, all of which the enterprise charge members located across the United States to purchase. They even had some international clients, too, make no mistake. As Jody pointed out, and in her eternal core speech, she wanted to spread her

message across the globe. So the defrauding of victims in wire fraud, that's gone on for more than two decades at least for Jody and Pam. For Savage's acts of wire fraud, well, that begins in 2015 and then continues after she became a leader in the enterprise in 2016. And Ruby then eventually joined the Enterprise by late 2018, 2019, give or take, and she became second in command to Jody. The suit states that discovery will also reveal thousands of instances of federal mail fraud based on the shipping of connections material to the United States Postal Office. Over the years, there have been thousands of victims whose lives and families

have been destroyed by the teachings and methodologies of connections, and in people who run it, and recruit members. The suit claims that defendants have willingly and knowingly participated in the illegal acts. You still have custody and care and protection over that young woman and I would do everything in my power to keep her as safe as possible and she runs away. That's up to her. She's 17 almost 18. Say you go stay over there. You don't get to bounce back and forth. That person is not related to us and he's not related to you. Does that make sense? He's not related.

He's just some stranger to you. We are your parents. And if you want to go run off with a stranger, go ahead. But he's not your father. And I would drill that into her head. Giving a sperm does not create a mother or a father. You know, giving DNA back and forth does not constitute being a parent.

as it relates to Savage, the suit claims that she knew about the fraud and the dangers of what was happening very early on. Even before Tillman got involved with connection saying, quote, At no time did Savage inform plaintiff of the illegitimacy and fraudulent nature of the enterprise and of connections, services, and products. Savage knew of this illegitimacy, in part because being so involved with connections for months, she personally observed almost every family who used the program to be destroyed by the enterprise, and because Savage also observed the psychological torture inflicted on victims of the enterprise, end quote. So what is Tillman, the plaintiff, seeking exactly, by filing this lawsuit? Well, he's claimed multiple damages.

This includes loss of income of 10,000 back in 2016, when he had to delay, the start of his new job due to having to leave Utah and go to Arizona to get help from his family to regain access to E.J. And Savage cut him off. He has also claimed damage to business relationships, economic prospects, and personal property as a direct result of defendant's racketeering activities. He claimed that the enterprise is directly responsible for his divorce and also his custody proceedings due to Savage cutting his access to EJ based on the enterprises, methodologies, and tactics. Tillman claims he lost his job in 2020 while a custody trial was happening and he was forced

to take a job making half of what he had been making prior. The total monetary loss between 2020 and 2023 is probably $90,000, he suggests, in this suit. he says that he has spent hundreds of thousands of dollars in legal fees and has been unable to attend law school because of the time and money he has spent defending himself in domestic proceedings and protecting his daughter from Savage's implementation of Hilda Brent's methodology and furtherance of the enterprise. It is estimated that due to not being able to obtain his law degree, because of this, he has suffered loss of earning potential, that is estimated to be at the very least just over $1 million. Tillman is requesting a jury trial for the eight claims of relief that are included in the suit.

On each of those claims, he is seeking no less than $2,250,000 for general damages. He is also requesting pre-judgment interest as well as his attorney fees being covered. For the fifth and seventh claims for relief, which are fraudulent non-disclosure, fraudulent concealment, against Jody, Savage, and connections, and then the punitive damages against all the defendants, he is seeking general damages according to proof at trial and punitive damages in an amount to be proven at trial. Specifically, for the eighth claim of relief, he is seeking, quote, in order that all assets, capital, tangible property, and documentation in the possession, custody, or control of defendant shall be frozen. Pending further order of this court, and

and that defendants are hereby enjoined from transferring selling or in any way disposing of any and all assets, capital, tangible property, and documentation in their possession, custody, or control pending further order of this court, so that all defendant's affairs, assets, capital, tangible property, and documentation will remain in their present state as of the date this order is entered to prevent defendants from avoiding. judgment post-trial. And lastly, on all claims of relief, he is seeking general damages according to proof at trial that preliminary injunctive relief described above, and for any other legal and equitable relief for court may deem appropriate. So we have just covered a lot. That was a lot,

a lot, a lot, at least for me. And it is no doubt that this suit makes big claims. frightening claims. And if they are all proven to be true, or even if just some of these claims are proven to be true, it again shows the depths of harm that the teachings of Jody Hildebrand, Ruby Frankie, and the connections classroom have done and are still continuing to do. Teaching so reckless and so dangerous that they ricochet still. And let me just say, there is a book currently for sale on Amazon titled, quote, rings of responsibility. And who are the authors? Well, the authors of this Rings of Responsibility book is Ruby Frankie and Jody Hildebrand, who both remain behind bars convicted of aggravated child abuse, horrendous torture of children. Well, this book written by them can be

yours for $20. And Jody markets to potential readers explaining that this book is the answer to loving yourself. And that true connection comes through living principles of, are you ready for this? Honesty, Responsibility, and Humility. With a click of a sales button, you can land this book, and it can also land in unsuspecting hands. And knowing what we know now, the marketing for this book continues with a chilling conclusion on its Amazon page. Quote, once you've read this book and learn the principles, please share this with your children, with your children. your grandchildren, family and friends, end quote. It seems as if Jody and Ruby's beliefs truly do continue to spread. But the most upsetting thing is that I am completely misunderstood.

That is the most horrible feeling like my own family misunderstands me. They misinterpret me. And poor Jody, they misinterpret her. They misunderstand her. She puts her neck out on the line for people and then they get madder. I mean, it is just horrendous. It's horrendous. And you know what? Every Joseph Smith, every wonderful man of God

has had to be misunderstood. That's right. And so I'm going to get out of this. Who knows? Maybe in 10 days I'll get out of this. If I'm, you know, if the truth prevails right now or, you know, who knows,

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