Hidden True Crime - Joseph Duggar Pleads NOT GUILTY… But Kendra’s Jail Calls Change Everything

Episode Date: April 1, 2026

Hours after his first court appearance in Florida, Joseph Duggar was already out on bond and taking a flight out of Florida—and the speed of it all is raising serious questions. In this episode of Hidden True Crime, Lauren breaks down the explosive new details: a not guilty plea despite a reported confession, a $600,000 bond posted within hours, and a Duggar family statement that acknowledges a “victim” while simultaneously rallying behind their son. As new information emerges about Kendra’s living situation, ongoing jail calls, and the growing scrutiny surrounding the Duggar inner circle, including Jim Bob Duggar and Michelle Duggar—the contradictions are becoming harder to ignore. Sponsors: Miracle Brand: Upgrade your sleep with Miracle Made! Go to https://trymiracle.com/HIDDEN and use the code HIDDEN to claim your FREE 3 PIECE TOWEL SET and SAVE over 40% OFF. Daily Look: For 50% off your order, head to https://DailyLook.com and use code HIDDEN About Hidden True Crime What started as a simple conversation at their dinner table became a captivating podcast. Join the dynamic duo of Dr. John Matthias, a criminal psychologist, and Lauren Matthias, an investigative journalist, as they delve into the psychological facets of unthinkable crimes every week. Their unique perspectives and in-depth analysis offer a fresh take on true crime storytelling. Thank you for your support through sponsorships, subscribing, listening, and becoming a Patreon member at⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Patreon.com/HiddenTrueCrime⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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We now have new information from Joseph Dugger's first court appearance in Florida. Yeah. And confirmation that he's. He has already bonded, out, just hours after that hearing. So he's out of, he's no longer behind bars. We also have a new statement from Jim Bob and Michelle Dugger and more insight into what is going on behind the scenes with Kendra, including where she's staying and those recorded jail calls that have been circulating.

And as we go through all of this, there are some contradictions that are becoming hard. harder and harder to ignore. My name is Lauren Matthias, and this is hidden true crime. So let's start with the hearing. Joseph appeared before a judge on Tuesday, March 31st in Bay County, Florida. And this was his first appearance after being extradited from Arkansas to Florida. He actually appeared remotely from the Bay County Jail just hours after being booked, which already tells you how quickly everything moved that morning. There was really no gap between him arriving and being put in front of the judge, which usually means everything was already lined up, ready to go.

He is currently facing two charges, lewd and lascivious molestation of a victim under the age of 12 by a person 18 or older, as well as lewd and lascivious conduct by a person over 18. And as we have gone over, these stem from allegations that he sexually assaulted a nine-year-old. girl multiple times during a family vacation to Panama City Beach back in 2020. Now, two days before this hearing, two days before this hearing even took place, Joseph had already submitted a written plea of not guilty to all charges. Not guilty, yeah. He waived arraignment and has demanded a jury trial, which means he is choosing to fully contest this in court. So before he even showed up, the strategy was already clear. This is not going to be something where he takes actual responsibility.

I mean, asking for forgiveness is one thing, right? But prison in Florida, I'm sure he's going to fight that. But that makes me wonder how he's going to get around that pesky confession, unless he was very careful in his wording during that phone call with the victim's father and detective, or if his attorney can get the confession thrown out somehow of evidence. I'm just not sure how he's going to beat those allegations. Regardless, his bond was set at $600,000 total, with $500,000 tied to the molestation charge and $100,000 tied to the conduct charge. He is due back in court on April 20th. But to really understand this situation, you have to look at what led up to the arrest because this didn't, come out of nowhere. According to the arrest affidavit, Joseph allegedly confessed to the father of the

accuser. Then the following day, the alleged victim who is now 14 years old, spoke with a detective. And that interview was summarized by a criminal investigator in the affidavit. So I want to read this affidavit together. I want to go through the whole thing. It says, quote, you're affiant. Investigator Chase Norris of the Bay County Sheriff's Office states the defendant Joseph Garrett Dugger was found to be in violation of Florida State Statute, 805B and 8006B to wit on March 18, 2026. I was contacted by a detective from the Tontietown Police Department. And during our conversation, I learned the victim, a 14-year-old female, participated in a forensic interview. And during the forensic interview, the victim described several incidents of sexual abuse involving the defendant.

The victim stated these incidents occurred during a family vacation in Panama City Beach, Florida. I was forwarded a copy of the forensic interview for my review. And while I was reviewing the forensic interview, I learned the following information. In 2020, the victim's family traveled to Panama City Beach for a vacation. The family vacationed at 4,120 Danny Drive in Panama City Beach, Florida. During the vacation, the defendant asked the victim to sit on his lap numerous times. The victim would sit on the defendant's lap. The defendant would cradle the victim with his arms.

As the vacation continued, the defendant would ask the victim to sit on the couch beside the defendant. The defendant covered the parties with the defendant. a blanket. And once the parties were covered, the defendant would pull the victim's dress up and touch the victim's thighs. The victim stated the defendant would touch the top portions of her thighs and would inch closer and higher closer to the victim's waistline. The victim stated this occurred several times. During these incidents, the defendant's hand grazed the victim's vagina. The victim stated the defendant's hand was outside of her underwear when these incidents occurred. The victim stated this made her feel uncomfortable and confused. Yeah, I can imagine

nine years old. The victim stated the defendant eventually approached the victim and apologized for his actions. The incident stopped occurring after the defendant apologized for his actions. As the investigation progressed, I continued to speak with the detective from the Tontutown Police Department. During our conversations, I learned the victim's father confronted the defendant about these incidents on March 17, 26. During their conversation, the defendant admitted his actions. Due to this, I requested the detective and the victim's father call the defendant, and during the call, the defendant admitted his actions. stating he touched the victim over her clothing.

The defendant admitted his intentions were not pure. It should be noted, the victim would have been nine years old at the time of this incident. This offense did occur in Bay County, Florida, end quote. So, when we hear that he is pleading not guilty, I mean, how do you feel? I think that's where confusion and emotion comes in because on one hand, you have a reported confession. Impure, not pure. And on the other hand, you have a full denial in court, right? Not guilty.

And those two things don't really go together, do they? It makes many wonder what the defense strategy is going to be here. But also, can we talk about how he admitted his intentions were not pure? like was this confession call, some weird religious call where they relied on his religion to get him to confess? And somehow that's supposed to be good enough, impure and confession of sins? Sure, okay. But then when it comes to court and the law and facing the actual consequences of time behind bars, not guilty. The hypocrisy really actually just makes me sick. We also have this other document. called a notice of discovery and Brady demand. So it basically means the defense wants full access to anything the state has that could be relevant. That includes things like a list of all witnesses,

even people the prosecution does not plan to call. And any statements those witnesses have made, any statements made my Joseph himself, and who was present, any co-defendant statements, if there are any evidence collected in the case, confidential informant information, surveillance like recordings, details about searches conducted by law enforcement and expert reports. It also specifically asks for Brady material, which is anything that could help the defense. So that could be evidence pointing away from Joseph even. Inconsistencies in witness statements, maybe inconsistencies in those confessions, deals made with witnesses, threats, criminal histories, or even descriptions that don't match him.

At the end of the day, this document is not saying he's guilty or innocent. It's just the defense saying, give us everything. Include anything that could weaken your case. Now, going back to the timeline for a second, Joseph was arrested on March 18th at his home in Arkansas and held at the Washington County Detention facility. He stayed there until March 27th when he was extradited to Florida. And then on March 31st, he was booked into the Bay County Jail at 732 in the morning and appeared in court later that same day. So again, everything moved very fast. During the hearing, he appeared via Zoom wearing a gray striped inmate uniform. And reports say he appeared to laugh nervously at times, which people are definitely going to interpret in their own way.

Some people will brush that off as nerves. other people are going to feel like that's completely inappropriate, given the nature of the charges. I don't know what it is, but it was weird. Leave it to a dougar. His attorney told the court he had no criminal history and asked that he be treated as fairly as anyone else regardless of his status in the television industry. And then this is the part that really stands out. His attorney also said that Jim Bob Dugger was already in Florida and ready to post bail. So before the hearing, even wrapped up, the plan to get them out was already in motion. And the plan was in motion thanks to Dugger Patriarch, Jim Bob Ducker. I pay a lot of attention to the little things

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All right. Who do we have first, ma'am? State your name, sir. Uh, Joseph Dugger. Good morning, Mr. Dugger. You're here for your first appearance after being arrested for the second-degree felony of lewd and lascivious conduct by, first in 18 years of age or older.

You're also here this morning for your first appearance after being arrested for the life felony offense of lewd or lascivious, lewd or licidious molestation by heather. Offender over the age of 18 years of age and a victim under the age of 12. It's my understanding, sir, that you were given a copy of your paperwork and advised their rights of the jail. Is that correct? Yes. That's right. sir i reviewed the application that you filled out and it says that you do not want the court to appoint an attorney to represent you so i will not do so at this time sir but if you have a change in circumstances you can fill out another application for the court then okay sir

okay thank you and um mr saline are you here this morning on behalf of mr dougar yes your honor i represent mr dougar in this matter Your Honor, the family is asking for the most reasonable bond. The court is inclined to stand. It's not or standing at no progress criminal history whatsoever. A lot of a speeding ticket is a father has a little town on Saturday and is here in our community, ready to post the bond if the court is inclined to issue such. So we're asking the most reasonable board is on a certain and is to be treated as fairly as anyone else with, regardless of his status in the television industry.

Mr. Staling, are you representing Mr. Dugger for first appearance purposes or through the duration of the case, sir? Through the duration, Your Honor. Anything from the state attorney's office? Yes, Your Honor. Good morning. We're asking for a substantial monetary bond in this case. It's a serious charge against the child. We ask that there would be a no contact placed with the victim as well as no person. He doesn't have a criminal history.

has no ties to the community. The alleged facts here was that he was just on vacation and stayed here a short period of time. Same ability to come here, a short period of time allows them to leave quickly as well. So no ties of the community. So we ask for a substantial bond under 903, 46 factors you're allowed to consider to make sure he appears in court. All right. And another judge determined there was probable calls for your arrest by signing of the warrants. Ms. Fambour, do you have any criminal history, ma'am?

I may show a child in danger being a false imprisonment out of Arkansas this year. Your Honor, I believe there are the charges that may still be pending. As you know, he has another family member that was arrested for the same circumstance. I don't think those have been resolved in light of him coming here. Mr. Saline, I'm not aware of anything else, sir. I'm just here this morning on Mr. Joseph Dugger's case. So, Ms. Fambor, you show those as open. You set out of the state of Arkansas.

I don't show the disposition. I show that they were charged. Okay. That is, those correct, they're pending charges in Arkansas this time. All right,

Mr. Dugger, I'm going to set your bond amount this morning in the lewd or lascivious conduct charge at $100,000. I'm going to set your bond amount in the lewd or lascivious molestation charge, which is a life felony, at half a million

dollars. It's a total of $600,000 bond. So you're going to have some other conditions as well. Sir, you are ordered to have no contact with the alleged victim. That means directly, indirectly through a third party or social media. Do you understand the no contact order, sir? Yes, ma'am. Sir, you are also ordered that you were to have no unsupervised contact with any minors under the age of 18. Your next court date, sir, is April 20th at 9 a.m. Step to your right to the seat.

Ma'am, if you'll give us a moment. Yes, ma'am. And Your Honor, that's all I have, I have to excuse me. Yes, sir. Thank you. Have a good day. Yes, Your Honor. And the same here.

I may be excuse. Yes, sir, have a good day, Mr. Saline. Have a good morning. So at first, it was reported that Joseph would remain in custody until his next court date on April 20th, but that did not last long at all. So we now know that as of 1254 p.m., just hours after that hearing, Joseph was bonded out. A Bay County Sheriff's Office employee confirmed that he posted bond the same day. And while $600,000 sounds like a massive number, in reality, you usually only need about 10% of that amount if you're going with a bail bondsman.

So we're talking roughly $60,000, which is still a massive amount to many. And based on what was said in court, the family, they were ready. They were there. They had the money. And they acted immediately. There was no hesitation. He was out within hours. And not only was he bonded out, he was seen at the airport. A Redditor named Junior Wolf 9331. Thank you, Junior Wolf. Grab photos of Joseph and Jim Bob at the Panama City airport. So the Redditor that posted those photos, she said that they had gotten food and were sitting at their gate. And that's when she saw them. And so I think that that's one of the moments that stands out the most of people, not just that Joseph bonded out. That happens, right? But how fast

it happened, right? Jim Bob to the rescue. And what a slap in the face to the victim. And what a slap in the face to the victim's family. Let's think of this from their perspective, from the victim's family perspective. While the victim will remain nameless, it is known that this was someone close to the family because the contact was repeated. And we know that the families were on vacation together in Florida. These were close friends of the Duggers. Many online have pointed out that Kendra's own family was on vacation with the Duggers in 2020, and thus the victim is potentially a relative of Kendras. And we know the victim in this case allegedly told her father what Joseph allegedly did to her. And we know the father of the victim could potentially be Kendra's father, Joseph's father in law.

This victim's father, according to the docks, went to police after his child confided in him. That's a good dad. And we know, according to those docs, that Joseph allegedly confessed to the victim's father. So put this in perspective. Imagine being the victim's family right now. You trusted this family. You trusted the Dugger's. The Dugger family, you felt close enough to the Dugger family that you vacationed with the Duggers

with your innocent children. You then learn that you are betrayed in the worst of ways. A dougar harmed their daughter while they were allegedly on a family vacation, creating core memories together and trusting they were a safe family to make those memories with. I cannot imagine the pain and the betrayal and disgust and heartbreak the victim. and their family is feeling right now. Now, without a blink, without a second thought, Jim Bob makes sure Joseph is bonded out of jail

as fast as humanly possible. What an absolute additional slap in the face to the victim's family who must be reeling right now, the pain that they are all feeling. And it sends a loud message, no matter Joseph's alleged confessions, no matter his impure deeds, the Dugger Patriarch, will put his children and family image first and at any cost, even above a child victim. Jim Bob and Michelle have now made a public statement, by the way, too, through a spokesperson.

We're going to get to that in detail in a bit. But, spoiler alert, they claim they are praying for the victim. So I just want to think about this for a second. What did our parents always teach us? Actions speak louder than words. Thanks, mom and dad. Actions speak louder than words. Jim Bob and Michelle can say all they want through their spokesperson

or to the media claiming they're protecting children. But when you're willing to bond your son out faster than it takes your nails to cure, it doesn't matter what you say. The message is loud and clear. We will protect our son over your daughter. We will not let our child remain behind bars for an hour longer than he needs. It really is just honestly such an effew to the victim. And also her family, who were clearly once trusting of the Duggers.

It's just such a betrayal. It's stepping on the little guy and asserting domination in the most clear way, publicly, proudly, and immediately. I just can't get over that. So now that Joseph is out, thanks to dad. As part of that release, the judge ordered that Joseph is not allowed to have any contact with the alleged victim and cannot have unsupervised contact with any minors under the age of 18, including his own children. That's good. It was handwritten on that document with lines drawn underneath

it, aka, this isn't just some standard paper you're signing. This condition is handwritten, and it's especially for you, Joseph. And that becomes even more significant when you consider what's happening in Arkansas, where Joseph and Kendra are dealing with separate charges. that include multiple counts of endangering the welfare of a minor and false imprisonment. So now you have a situation where the court is saying he cannot be alone with minors at all. While there are already concerns about children in his household, it might make things difficult if he returns to his actual home because then the children won't be able to stay there.

And also, Kendra theoretically should be doing everything she can to get her children to be able to come home safely. but if Joseph's there, that won't even be an option at all. I assume that means Joseph won't be returning home, but who knows because it's also been made clear that Kendra is not staying at her home. But also remember, when Josh was released in awaiting trial, Josh, meaning Joseph's older brother, Dugger deja vu, as I say,

he had to be under supervision, and it was La Count and Maria Repper, some close family friends of the Duggers that ended up as Josh's third-party supervision. So, hey, who knows, maybe they will offer to have Joseph live with them. Lecount and Maria's daughter ended up marrying Anna Dugger's brother just weeks before Josh went to trial for CSM charges. You know, it worked out, I guess. But now, let's talk about Jim Bob and Michelle Dugger's public response.

I mentioned it earlier. I gave a little spoiler. I told you we'd talk about this. I personally think it's bad. I don't think Jim Bob and Michelle are reading. the room, in my opinion. But I also don't think they're trying to read any room, and I don't know if they ever have read a room. I think this is legal strategy, actually, more than anything, and let me tell you why. Because I am actually seeing a pattern to the Dugger family statements when it comes

to both Joseph's arrest and his older brother, Josh's arrest in 2021 for CSAM. You know what I didn't expect to be so exhausting, deciding what to wear every single day. Like, don't give me wrong. I love clothes, love clothes. But when you're on camera running a business, juggling life, it's like, I don't have the brain space for outfit decisions right now. And that is why I love Daily Look. This podcast is sponsored by Daily Look, the number one highest rated premium personal styling service for women. And what makes them different is you get a real stylist, not an algorithm, an actual person who understands your style, your lifestyle, and what you actually feel good wearing. They send you up to 12 pieces to try on at home and you keep what you love and send back the rest.

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that I sent you. So Josh is arrested on April 21st of 2021, okay? But Jim Bob and Michelle were quiet for over a week. And then on April 30th, 2021, Josh pleaded not guilty. That same afternoon, Jim Bob and Michelle released a statement saying, quote, we appreciate your continued prayers for our family at this time. The accusations brought against Joshua today are very serious. It is our prayer that the truth, no matter what it is, we'll come to light, and that this will all be resolved in a timely manner. We love Josh and Anna and continue to pray for their family, end quote. So that was the 2021 statement. Make note, by the way, they never asked for the prayers of any of the children being abused and exploited for C Sam in the 2021 statement. So fast forward to this year, again, to

Dugger DejaVue, 26. Joseph is arrested March 18, 26. It's now been nearly two weeks since that arrest. And minus Michelle shaming a reporter. Shame. Joseph's parents have been quiet and the public's been waiting and wondering. I certainly have. And then yesterday, Monday, March 31st, 2026, Jim Bob and Michelle finally made a statement about Joseph's arrest through a spokesperson.

It was so interesting Monday. So it reads, quote, Jim Bob and Michelle are heartbroken over this entire situation. Right now, they are focused on loving their family and helping Kendra and her children during this difficult time. They are praying for the victim. They ask for privacy and appreciate the kind words and prayers offered by so many, end quote. Okay. Hmm, so I have so many things to say about this statement. But first, what people didn't know at the time, was that already before this statement, before this Monday statement, by Sunday afternoon, Joseph had actually entered a plea of not guilty. Yeah, it's on the court docket. Sunday, March 29th. So even though he publicly pleaded not guilty in court today, Tuesday, March 31st, he technically entered a plea on Sunday. So what I'm seeing, rather than these being public statements, to, you know, discuss their heartbreak or their regret or let everybody know they're thinking of

the victims. And I think that these statements are actually more of a legal strategy for them. So the moment Josh pleads not guilty in 2021, family statement, boom. The moment Joseph pleads not guilty, 2026, family statement, boom. So now let's talk about what this statement for Joseph said. I keep coming back to that line. I'm going to read it one more time. They are praying for the victim. Jim Bob and Michelle are praying for the victim.

That part is different from the statement they made for Josh. They only asked for prayers for their family and for Josh. So, okay, acknowledging a victim this time. But if you are calling someone a victim, that suggests you believe something happens. No, they don't say alleged victim. They state victim. They are praying for the victim. That implies guilt. So then, naturally, the question becomes, if you believe there is a victim, and we have reports that Joseph admitted to doing something terrible to said victim, why is the immediate response from these parents to get him out of jail, as quickly as humanly possible. Why is there no clear distancing, no condemnation, no let them simmer overnight, no strong statement about accountability and consequences? But again, why do I expect more

from Jim Bob? I don't know. This is the guy that interviewed with Megan Kelly in 2015 and explained that Josh Dugger only quickly touched his sisters. It was nothing more than curiosity. Yeah, Sure, it was under their clothes without their consent, but his sisters are okay. They're fine. Nothing to see here. Like, nothing to see in this family except an arrest every five or so years. But, okay, what are we counting here in this family? Children are charges? I mean, we have seen some siblings speak out in harsher ways with condemnation for Joseph's actions. We've talked about those statements here it hit into crime. But from Jim Bob and Michelle's specifically, the action that we're seeing is honestly immediate support. And those two things

do not really align in a way that makes sense to a lot of us watching this. Well, I should say that emotionally healthy people likely wouldn't respond this way, but the Duggers are not your average family, clearly. That's why they have a TLC show or did before they were canceled. And this response seems pretty par for the course. So now let's talk about Kendra. Joseph's wife because her situation adds another layer to all of this. Is she standing by her man, Joseph, or not? She has charges too, right? There's so much. And we're going to be going over some more jail calls in just a bit. We wondered about those jail calls, right? Well, we now have more of them. We're going to get to those. We also now have reason to believe, though,

with the private residence that Kendra mentioned in her phone call with Joseph in our last episode in this playlist is actually the home of Joseph's sister, Joy, Anna, and her husband, Austin, in Fayetteville, Arkansas. And this is also believed to be the same location where that video was filmed of Michelle approaching the paparazzi and telling him he was trespassing, even though he was on a public road. Dr. John gave his assessment of that moment, by the way. If you haven't yet heard that episode with Dr. John, criminal psychologist, discussing family systems and authoritarian parenting, as well as other parenting styles, I highly recommend that episode. You can find that in our Dagger playlist.

So everything kind of keeps circling back, though, to that one house seen in that Michelle. Dugger video. We also have a lot more jail calls between Joseph and Kendra. And again, these are not just small clips like were originally released by People on page 6. The creator, Katie Joy, who runs the channel without a crystal ball and has done an impressive job keeping up with this case and other Dugger cases. She has obtained over 40 minutes of phone calls through a FOIA request and has released a lot more. We're working on getting those calls as well. And when we do, we're planning an in-depth discussion and letting Dr. John Lee in. But for now, let's listen to what Katie Joy has shared. I haven't listened to them yet. Full disclosure. As my producer, Grayson, requested that I listen

with all of you because she said she wanted my real-time reaction after she listened to them herself and trust me this was difficult um writing all of this without writing and researching all of this without hearing these calls was hard but i took her advice let's listen to these clips together down there but um it's been a little crazy over here i don't know if you know what's going on but yeah not exactly yeah well we'll still you in later i guess but yeah i assume but yeah um yeah um yeah How have you been? Have you been all not good? Yeah, it's been pretty intense.

Yesterday was a really rough day, but I'm doing okay. I'm here with Jed, and we're at John Abbey's, and I'm trying to get some business stuff worked out. Okay. So if you have any questions, we're going to try to send them through Travis. Yeah, just send him through Travis and I'll tell you what it can. Yeah, no, it's awesome. Yeah, I, yeah, but I, yeah. I got up, but I don't know if you've been sleeping much.

Have you been sleeping much? Last night they actually turned off. Most of the nights, they started to sleep. Oh, wow. Oh, wow. It's almost entertaining except for he's pretty vulgar. Oh, man. I'm just going to focus on my Bible reading.

And this, it's like a prison, and I think it's a new life without this, this Bible is the new living translation. but it's actually I kind of like the translation because it's like, are you going to be changed in your version by the time you get out? Well, I mean, I... So I'm teasing you. Well, I'm saying that it's really good to hear you. Yeah, it's actually been really encouraging because they have like little things below it that, you know, kind of either describe it or just give a different perspective. Well, but it was at like five minutes that it got. cut off and I didn't know if it was because of my reception.

Yeah, because I couldn't hear you. And then I stayed on there for a couple another minutes just to be sure. And then it, like, I just hung up because I thought, well, might be charging you minutes or something. I don't even know how the whole system works. I'm trying to get set up with the portal and trying to get help from. Okay, because it, I think it cost me $3. The last call did. So I'm trying to do you have enough money.

And I have not been able to get your email. And did you know emails are, are, are, are, or, are, also same as this. Oh, okay. All, uh... Yeah, emails are the same as this. The only time it's not like this is when you have Travis. Or an attorney.

The only time it's safe is with an attorney. Yes, that's right. Yeah, he told me. He described that. Okay, so emails are... Yeah, emails are fine, but it has to be made. No. It's really hard to...

No, it's totally fine. I just didn't. I couldn't find your message, and so I thought I was, you know I couldn't find it. Well, it's good to know. Yeah. I don't know if it's just on my end if I just need to get someone else to help me, but it's been pretty wild over here, and so it's slowing down today.

Yeah, I wish I could talk to you. It's been wild. I'm sorry, sweetie. Well, I've been praying for y'all. I know that it's... I mean, yeah. Well, I've been... Thank you.

And that people will be good there. So... Yeah. I know. From what I hear, they are doing good. Yeah, I, I, yeah, I don't know what you know, but. I, fell them on everything whenever I'm. Yeah, I hope you can get down.

I got to get the, I got to get the power of attorney from you through Travis at some point. So, yeah, yeah, that'd be good. So hopefully he'll, and I was going to send you questions if I have any, so I was hoping to talk to some of the brothers. I think John will be done in a bit. He's mowing or something or he was going to mow. Anyways, and so. I told him that, like, I thought we could brainstorm and try to get most of it figured out. And then whatever, we can't figure out.

I'll just send you questions. So. Yeah, that's perfect. Before I switched to wealth front, my APY was probably zero point one. Like, it was a joke. I was literally getting pennies. Once I switched, chiching. With a wealth front cash account, earn up to 4.2% APY on your cash.

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Instant withdrawal subject to conditions, fees, and eligibility requirements may apply to certain checking features of the cash account. Okay. So yeah, that was actually, that was actually really overwhelming. I don't even know where to start. Well, let's start with the thing that upset me the most, which is this idea that they're talking almost like, you know, the Joseph's above being here in in, uh, J. Like this is some, you know, strange vacation that he's having or, you know, uh, and that someone's throwing a tantrum.

And he would find it almost entertaining, but he was being so vulgar. And so he just needed to read his Bible verses. And then Kendra giggles. Like this is a, this is, This is a man who is behind bars for harming a child, a nine-year-old child. I don't know what that man that was having a tantrum did. I'm not going to assume I know.

I don't know. But have some perspective. Have some perspective. I also feel like listening to this couple reminds me of when I would get a call. in sixth grade from a boy, you know, on the landlines we all used to have and trying, you know, just like giggling. And like it's so surface. It's fascinating to me to the point where she's giggling and then has to explain that she's

teasing him. It does sound very kind of my first impression is arrested development almost. I also get that they're being vague. They admit as much. They can't, they can't talk. But, but they, they sound like children. Like, I can't help but not think of like some arrested development almost or, or just very, very surface oriented phone call.

They're talking about the Bible and she's giggling about his experiences, like having a light on all night and this man throwing a tantrum that's vulgar and I don't know. there's just something. It's not just vague because they know they're being recorded. There's something completely out of touch. But I'm ready for the next one. Those are my thoughts. And we'll get to, I did know that Travis was mentioned,

and we'll get to that in just a bit. We'll wait for that. I'm ready for the next one. I've been able to eat. I haven't even been able to eat hardly. But I thought I was asking how you were, because I've been unable to eat for. Well, my.

stomach isn't always settled, but I, if it's not settled, I lay down. Wow, that's impressive. Yeah, but I, I'm not eating, like, hardly any, I'm trying not to, like, eat junk, mostly just eat the veggies and the protein stuff. Okay. Some of the protein has, but I ate the bread and the breakfast on just doing that, and hopefully I'll try. Oh, yeah. I'm trimming up, I think. I haven't gotten on the scale, but I feel a lot true of her now. I feel better. Like, I feel, like, better. Don't feel as bloated as I was before.

Yeah. Yeah, I'm definitely not blotted either. I've been, I'm about, I'm over here skinny, need. I cannot eat. Mama keeps trying to get me to eat. She's like, you need to eat some. And I'm like, I will try. But unless it's liquid, it doesn't really go down. So it's like, it's been a battle. Listen to mama. Try to help you. They said, they said, I got to be well to take care of all these decisions and everything. And so, anyways, we got, we got, we got, oh, I know, it's good to hear you, you sound really good.

And so that makes me happy. I didn't feel good after our last conversation. I had a lot of, because I was like, it felt really weird and tense, and like, we didn't really talk about anything. and I was like, I was like, I don't feel good. So after it, you know, but it's fine. Like, you know, I just didn't know what happened. And so anyways. Yeah.

Sorry, I'm walking. Oh. I can hardly walk. I get really winded because I'm so weak. Oh. And my legs and my body. Oh. I lost my laugh, too.

Like, it's a silent laugh. You know how when I was really sick with the, I was a silent laugh again. Oh, yeah. Oh. Yeah. Make sure you try to get some food in because it's going to help you gain some. Yeah, well, I'm going to try. Yeah.

And I actually did get to sneak over and get an IV before stuff happened. Oh, nice. That was, that probably sustained me good. It can probably come to you if needed to. Yeah, and I want to tell you that your family is just an absolute crazy great. great support network and system and they've just been so supportive of me and everything. So I'm really well taking, yes, I'm really well taking care of. I just sometimes start crying because I know God's been so good.

I've just been writing down some of the things that I'm thankful for that, you know, we've gotten to do like I was thinking about our vacation we got to do as a family and our trip before and so I'm just trying to write down. All of that today too. Were you, yeah. Yeah, when I was just reading the Psalms, it's just like it's reflective. We know about how we're doing and God, yeah. Yeah, and I really want to both you know how you're doing, you know.

Like, and I want you to know how I'm doing because I do better. I feel more connected to you when I get to tell you how I'm feeling and stuff. Yeah, yeah, that's good. I mean, the officers are really kind in here and stuff. They're what? They're kind? Yeah, very kind. Oh, good.

Then, I mean, I don't, like, I can't see out of myself. It kind of over the thing. Yeah. But, yeah, it's a. And then if I have a little tracing. Do they give you a mat to sleep on? Yeah, it's like a mat on, like it's like a concrete bench is what it was. Yeah.

And then they put a mat that's like a three inch, four inch thick. Yeah. Wow. So as long as I sleep on my back. Oh, yeah. So I'm, I think my. Oh, baby. I just, I'm so sorry. I love you. Oh, well, I love you too. It's not a problem. I'm happy.

Oh, I love you. Yeah. Well, yeah. We'll see where God takes us through all this. Yeah. And hopefully we come back stronger. I think we will because I think that we're going to realize how much we need him ultimately. Oh, yeah. You know, that kind of is more, I think, you know, it's a good place to be.

Yeah. Well, you sound like you're doing good. Yeah. I think that's just, if you can keep remembering that as we can depend on God, God's going to, even if it's, you know, bad things that come our way, God's going to give us. Okay. It is for me, but it's what is the promises I'm holding to, you know. Okay.

Yeah. Just, I know things are, you know, wild and crazy, but you can, you can just remember that in the back of your head whenever you, time you can spend with God. Okay. I'll try to, you think I should start in Psalms, you're saying? Yeah, Psalms is a great place because it's, I mean, you can talk to, you know. Okay, whoa, like, I don't know, whoa. So, whoa. Let's just set the stage for a second.

I'll try to remember everything that just blew my mind there. First off, does it sound like, again, to anybody else, it's almost like they're in the courting phase, like, you know, the Dugger courting phase where they're having supervised visits and they're not dating, but they're, like, checking, they speak puppy love before they've kissed and they don't know each other. Like, literally he's explaining to her how. he's fixing a stomach pain and she's saying, wow, that's impressive. Like, that's how the call

starts. Just setting the stage there, it's strange. They don't know each other. I think that's what I'm pointing out here. They are both playing roles here, but they don't know each other. He was preaching to her at the end there. I just jumped to the end. He's telling her what to do and saying that he believes they'll come out stronger because of God. And I mean, and she's just saying, yeah, you know, he's taking on the role of, I need to preach to her. She's taking on this keep sweet role and giggling. We learned so many things from this call.

We learned that she is relying on his family. Remember, the victim in this case could be a relative of Kendra. And she's leaning on his family, even though he, likely possibly maybe victimized her family member. We've learned that she wants to stay with Joseph. That's their plan. They're going to come out stronger after this. Let's talk about how he never, ever asks how she's doing, ever. She's telling him, I can't eat. She's giggling about it and then trying to be positive and saying that she's going to lose weight, ha, ha, ha, and that actually she, like, really can't eat. And her in-laws are allegedly trying to stuff her with food or get her,

get something down her stomach so she can make decisions, big decisions. I don't think one of those decisions is about whether she should stay or leave, by the way. If she's hanging out with the Duggers and they're giving her food to make decisions, we're probably talking legal decisions with their help and support. Because she's made a clear. that none of those decisions right now are whether she should run the other way because she says they're going to come out stronger and he encourages her to read certain Bible verses. So those aren't the decisions. But she giggles that she's going to be a skinny, mini, and he giggles back. So then without him asking ever how she's doing, she shares that with him, right? Then she admits that

she felt kind of like insecure. Tell me, this is what I just heard. I listened to this once now. that this was fascinating that, you know, she wasn't really sure. It wasn't a great conversation. Like, she's insecure with this relationship, this surface relationship and the roles they have. And so she says, I feel better when I know how you're doing. And I feel better when you, you know, hear about how I'm doing. And I can share how I'm doing. Okay, I'm no dating coach. But like that would be the cute to say, by the way, Ask how your wife is doing. She's literally saying to him, I would really appreciate it and feel better if you knew how I was doing. And what does he do? He starts talking about himself again to the point where she's apologizing to him and saying, oh, I'm so sorry for you. I feel so bad for you. He confessed according to the affidavit we just read. to abusing a nine-year-old child. And this is a woman that is now apologizing to him and feeling bad for him and encouraging him.

You know what this reminds me of is the James Craig case. If you know, you know, for those adults, James Craig murdered his wife with arsenic and poisoning her for weeks. mother to his six children. He's a dentist, a Mormon leader in his LDS ward or congregation. And we throughout that case, I sat in that trial, I covered that extensively. In that case, you see these text messages that are coming out. And poor Angela Craig, Angela Craig, like, she's such a good mother, such a good wife. He's cheating on her. And in the end, all of our jaws are like dropping in court realizing that like she, Angela starts apologizing to James for like what she's done after he's cheated on her and he's hurt her and she feels abused.

That's what I'm seeing here too. Is like she's apologizing to the man behind bars for assaulting a child. he's behind bars for allegedly assaulting, abusing a child, and yet she's comforting him. Make that make sense. That's what I think blew me away the most. And I don't know. This is just mind-blowing to me. And again, who the victim may or may not be, I mean, Kendra certainly knows his victim.

It was someone close to the dugger. earth. And then from behind bars with his charges, because these roles are so ingrained and mandatory in this family, he preaches to her about godly things, about what scriptures and recommends to her, her spiritual guidance. He's behind bars, charged with doing horrible things to a child right now. Hasn't been convicted. It's pleading not guilty. But we read the affidavit. And he is giving her spiritual advice. At one point, she says it would really mean a lot if I could share with you about how I'm doing any talks about himself. Again, I realize that they are being vague because they know these are being recorded and they can't talk about certain things.

That's clear. They're saying, what can we talk about? But this is, it's not the lack of subject that's getting to me. It's the surface of anything they're talking about. This is not a couple that knows each other deeply at all, at all. And I don't even know if they know themselves deeply. But it's very clear that the Duggers are in control of Kendra right now. She doesn't know that, I don't think, but like, she's with Duggers. right now. We know that. We know where she's staying. We know whose house she's been staying.

So the Duggers. And they're taking good care of her and just wow, just wow. Anyway, let's keep going. I don't have to say on that one. It has probably been my hardest day. But that's crazy to say because Wednesday was crazy hard. But it's just like when you then take my babies from me, they were who I was just going to pour my life into during this time. That's your purpose right now. Yeah. And yeah, and it's still it. I mean, I won't be honest.

You don't suffice again. Well, right. So, yeah. Yeah. That's right. But I just, I couldn't, I was like, how is this happening? And I still don't believe it. I don't even think it's fully real to me.

Like, I kind of think that I'm, for one, it feels weird. to not have them, but then it's also like, oh, this is going to go away next week. You know, like I'm going to, you know, like I'm about to, and it's like, and I just keep looking up and I went in and ate some food and I got to hang out with Katie all day and then I'll hang out with Jessica. She came visiting me at their house and so yeah, I'm going to out and then I took two Benfell again just in case. Okay.

I haven't looked at the email. He did say he was emailing something to me. He's just pretty much... It tells everything that the kid said. I need to read over it. It just says, yeah, they have like... Oh, I didn't realize that. And you read that.

Then they have your statement allegations there. Oh, what I even say. No, he just said that you're going to... Okay, we'll have to read what their statements were. Okay. Yeah. So do you feel better after talking to Travis? Yeah, I felt pretty good. I mean... Well, that last line was the most important right there. Just wait until they come and get me. They knew, they knew that there's just, he was just going to be come and gotten. Come and get me. They're waiting. So that shows that everybody knew this was going to be resolved very quickly.

She says it almost doesn't feel real, right? Yeah, that makes sense. She's not acting like it's real. She mentions that it was hard for her kids to be taken away. I felt for her there. I felt for Kendra there. Like, I can't imagine. I would lose my mind. But then she kind of says it was weird. It's weird. Then, I think, more upsetting than anything, too. I mean, not than anything. This whole thing is just really upsetting. But one thing to, you know, just when, you know, just when, she says, it feels so weird. And he validates her by repeatedly saying, yeah, it's your purpose, your whole purpose. Like, can you emphasize it anymore?

God gave you those children for your purpose. And then she's like, yeah, it's really weird. I'm being able to have them. I mean, I think many mothers and fathers would be unconsolable. Look, and I'm not saying she wasn't crying on the floor. before she was talking to Joseph. I don't know how she's dealing with her children, you know, not being with her.

So I'm not going to assume in this little snippet I know. But these are the parents of the children talking about it. He certainly wasn't showing a lot of anger or of setness rather than letting her know. It was her purpose to have them and how strange it must feel. It was just, jarring to kind of hear him discuss that. Let's listen to the next.

And I know the Lord, okay, because I have my own battles that I'm killing with. Yeah. So I'm just like, I just don't know. I feel like I've had to put you on the, I was telling, I was trying to sort this out that's time in my head. And I was like, I have my, you know, my prayer words are the kids.

And that's pretty, the only thing that I'm able to focus on. I'm going to try to take your calls, but I'm just, I have to do anything and everything for the kids right now and for myself, because I'm not, I'm not well. I just actually, I got seven hours a night, no, six hours, right, six hours the night before.

And I got a little fruit in at the end of the day. I went on an ATV drive with, you know who, and it was wonderful, and we just laughed, music, worship music. And when you didn't sing my hearts out, and then I was able to eat when I got home a little bit of food and most I've been able to eat probably all the week.

And I got a little bit of strength back where I was able to walk and not like, because I was starting. Yeah, you were starting to say, yeah. Yeah. And so I can't, so anyways, I'm trying to focus. My goal is that everybody, you know,

people are, like coach is here, saying make sure you take care of yourself so that you can make good decisions for you know for kids and so I'm doing that and so I just I don't know how to be there for you and darling me and all this and so no that's okay I know I know but I do appreciate you taking my calls because that's very encouraging to me just to hear your voice and I know but I just like let me just laugh something stupid makes me laugh And so they were putting out that that's God's grace pouring out on me to be able to have a little break. And every day, so they're cool trying to focus on the positive.

I have a list going of things that I'm thankful for that have happened throughout this process or even before the things that we got to do as a family. Yes, yes. You know, I'm thinking about. I'm not really writing anything. down because I don't know what people... But I mean, we... I know, but we got to go on our family vacation and we got to do our trip and so I'm grateful for those...

All these small things. Yeah, me too. But it's just... It's an absolute miracle not able to... I think to stand up and do anything right now, so I don't know you're... Whatever is going on for you, but... I'm just trying to survive. Yeah.

And I'm fighting for the kids. And they're my number one priority right now. Absolutely. I'm not happy behind you on that. I'll just want you to know through all of this, whatever happens. That's who's coming first through all of this. Yep.

Absolutely. And then we'll just see where the rest of it leaves us. And we'll just take up the pieces. and try to put them together. So, okay, we'll do, yeah, I'll let them know. Yeah. Just know that everybody loves you, even if they're disappointed. Oh, yeah.

It's how things are, maybe everybody wants. I don't know why. I'll just understand if they love you too. Yeah, oh yeah, absolutely. I'm not upset. Yeah. Yeah. That's good.

Yeah. Yeah. I'm just going to just like God is going to get us through one day at a time. Yeah. Because every time I look up the staircase, I'm not into a puddle. So we decided to just take it one day at a time, one moment at a time. That's right. So hopefully you can do that too.

Yeah. Yeah, that's what I... And just if you could pray for my house, because I don't know if I'm just been... I've just been really fatigued in the last two days. So just a few things. You know, and tell me what you guys think about these two. I had a lot of empathy for Kendra listening to her breakdown in that call. I sense that Joseph didn't like it.

He mentioned he likes his giggling wife. And I don't think he really knew how to meet her emotions in that moment. and it certainly sounded like Kendra tried to change it up, mentioning that she was trying to think of positive things, and she'd made a list. And he really, he said, I didn't see a lot of connection there as she broke down, and she quickly went to more of the wife he probably values. I thought it was fascinating.

And look, I realized that in this case, Kendra is not the victim. But her husband is the one that's currently behind bars right now. And in my opinion, she'd be profusely apologizing to her. And he doesn't. She's always apologizing to him. And this is the thing that caught me, one line, where she's clearly trying to make him understand that she can't always get his calls and that the children are the priority. he understands. She's just trying to get the children back. And he understands. But then he said,

I thought this was quite the tell. He said, yes, I understand that you need to fight for them most. Fight for them most. That's what Joseph said to her about her kids. That means he thinks she should be fighting for him too. Okay, it's okay if you fight for the kids more than me. most, but you're going to fight for me. This is about him. It's fascinating to me. And then that whole conversation, yeah, I know you all heard it about how like people are disappointed, but they still love them.

And he goes, oh, I know. I feel the love. I know. And I understand the disappointment. Oh, do you? You know, and you just know, I mean, this is, yeah, we, I definitely am going to need some Dr. John takes. on this. And Grace, do we have one more call? I think. Let's hear.

I think Austin said he sent you a message. I haven't looked, yeah. I typically do that after I have my shower. Yeah. Well, um, I appreciate it. Yeah. Yeah, everybody loves you. They're really sad about what's happened, but they love you and they, you know, that Jesus loves you. and that he is hopefully that this you know hopefully will see the light

it's in with the tunnel I mean I'm just trusting that God is going to be trying to show if God's in control yes I know I'm trying to do difference but I can definitely right yeah we have a better view of God

to all this we're getting on a good track there. I think it's, I mean, it's, when you're spending that much time, I mean, for me, you know, when I not be able to do anything but read the Bible, it's, I mean, to either that or think about your thoughts and that's worse, so you might as well just think on a regular basis. I mean, I just do it some, but it just like, oh, the entire family. They all have their departments, basically, that they're taking, that takes in helping with. I mean, it's, it's, like this these these ones are working on the kids these ones are working on me these ones are

working on the attorney you know these ones are working on business these ones it's just i mean the whole family i think they just genuinely are like we love you guys and they're here for you but they told me they said we don't want to make any decisions for you they just said or she would just support you because and i've been struggling because i was like i just need to know you know what's going on in some regard but I can't carry the load at all at all in such a way yeah we're like if you ever feel uncomfortable and you don't want something everyone's like you know what is your take on this these are my garage's been trying to because I want to be able to take everything over and I want advice but I don't yeah but I've been and I've been struggling with yeah like how much help

Oh, it's hard to receive help, I know. Yeah. Yeah. It's like, uh. No, but you, you need it. You need it. I know. I know.

Well, I was going to say that I feel like that I can't be, you know, alone for too long either. Yeah. And that's what we were realizing actually right before all this actually need to be around people because we just need that. So. Yeah. to be around people and so I think that's good that you're going to try to get the fire done as quickly as possible and then my family says they're moving out in a month and everybody is going to hold them to it okay yeah they're like yeah they're like anyway so they're holding them to it and we'll also have to I need to figure out all the stuff that I want to do over there and um i have oh good i thought so where is the list it's on my reminders um

oh gotcha okay and i have a bunch of reminders i know jason knows a lot of this stuff too jason will he was going to head it up yeah he's been ahead of that we did more of the same but i mean can this guy say i'm so sorry for what i've done once has that Have we heard that? No, I've heard her say she's sorry a lot, repeatedly, not from the man sitting behind bars. And then to say that God is in complete control rather than his own actions, and then to say other people have tainted our view of God, other people, not Joseph's actions, not Joseph, other people. Other people have been bad influences

and have affected him and Kendra, but not their own actions, not, it's not their fault. And they have to just trust in God and give God full control. I sense some dependency with Kendra. She says she doesn't want to be alone. She can't be alone. She doesn't want to make decisions on her own. I think that's actually pretty common in an authoritarian group family system, whatever you want to call it.

You know, wow. But not one person putting responsibility where responsibility goes right now. And then the last thing I want to point out. If I heard this right, I'm even hesitating because I want to listen to it again and again to make sure I got this right. But I heard them talking about Kendra's family, that they're going to move out and that everyone's going to, like, hold them to it. And my first thought was, we've talked about this earlier in another episode where there was a falling out with the Duggers and Kendra's family. and the Kendra's family, Kendra's parents moved into a property that Joseph and Kendra owned. We mentioned that and that's where they've been staying in their property.

So look, I don't know, but they're going to move out. We're going to hold them to it. So is now Kendra's family going to have to move out? And why? And why are they going to hold them to it? Is this revenge? Is this because they went to police? The victim's father went to police, which is possibly Kendra's father.

Maybe not. Maybe not. We don't know. Could be a relative. Are they kicking Kendra's family out? We're going to hold them to it. I don't know. I'm going to need to hear that one one more time.

I want to thank Katie Joy, again, from the channel without a crystal ball for her diligent work in covering this case. She has epped up on this case. like no one else. And we're going to have a link to her channel in the description of this episode because Katie Joy also says that she has more conversations that she will release. And in those conversations, Katie Joy says that Kendra actually does confirm that she is staying with Joy, Anna, and Austin. And according to Katie Joy, Kendra also said that they are helping guide her decisions.

And we heard that. Multiple members of the Ducker family are actively supporting her. her. And so this is partly why Kendra's position becomes really hard for people to understand. If her goal is to regain stability for her children, especially with CPS involved, most people would expect to see her taking very clear steps, like going home and fixing whatever issues were raised, like the locks on the outside of the doors, returning to a stable environment and creating distance from Joseph Wall. These allegations are being addressed. Instead, she appears to be standing firmly by him, staying with his family, and continuing.

communication and support. And that could complicate things for her if it doesn't seem like she's putting her children's well-being above everything else, including staying with Joseph. But I was glad to hear that her intention is to put them first regardless of what happens. I mean, that's encouraging, right? But we will just have to see how that plays out. Now, adding onto that, let's talk about Joy, Anna, because there are some developments there that are raising a lot of questions as well. It has been reported that law enforcement was at her home, according to a calls for service law

from the Washington County Sheriff's Office. Around the same time, she reportedly deleted 164 videos from her YouTube channel, essentially removing all of her vlogs, family vlogs, and this happened shortly after the incident with Michelle and the paparazzi outside that same home. And while we don't have confirmation on why those videos were deleted, the timing is very noticeable.

There are also claims circulating, including from a local commenter that Joy Anna may be facing scrutiny related to parenting choices that she previously shared online, such as locking her own children in rooms, allowing a young child to operate heavy equipment and her husband Austin having unsecured firearms in the home. We don't know. We don't know. when you combine this though with deleted content police presence and the fact that kendra is now staying

there herself while she is herself under investigation it definitely makes you wonder what's going on behind the scenes but also she could simply just be deleting all of this content all of these vlogs with her family anything with her family and home for safety as i'm sure that there are people out there trying to go real life, right, including the paparazzi outside of her house. Her home has become very public, especially since her mother, Michelle, confronted the reporter outside, the residence. And now that people are aware, I am sure her family is needing more privacy, and I suspect that deleting her content is about that needed privacy at this time. Another interesting detail from the calls is the mention of attorney Travis Story from Story law firm.

Now, I mentioned that I did know that these calls were going to mention attorney Travis Story. I was at least tipped that. So who is Travis Story? He was part of Josh Dugger's legal team, but he is primarily a civil attorney. He handles bankruptcies, divorces, probate, and isn't really known for handling major criminal defense cases like this, especially not in Florida, right? So realistically, Joseph Dugger is going to need a Florida-based,

criminal defense attorney to take the lead there. So why is he mentioned in these calls? Right. He's going to need this Florida-based criminal defense attorney to take the lead there, which according to the docket, he has already retained that attorney. So Travis, Travis could technically be involved in some way, but the other attorney is like, is going to be the lead. And like Kendra said, Travis is currently working for her, not Joseph. I did a little bit of research, and he's definitely been featured quite a bit on the Dugger Snark Reddit and is referred to as the Dugger's legal errand boy. It's also been said that Travis is part of the same IBLP circle and very close to the family, even attending weddings and the Duggers attending Travis's sister's funeral.

So the Duggers attended Travis's sister's funeral and Travis attended Dugger weddings. So this is, they're tight. This definitely adds. another layer to his involvement and the mention of him in these calls. I found this article and the fact that he's helping catch it right now. So I found this article from December 23 about Travis Story. I found this very, very interesting. It's from baptistnews.com. And it's titled, ready for this? Little Rock Church hired Josh Dugger's lawyer, then reversed course after lay leaders protest.

End quote. So part of the article says, it has been a few weeks since the Arkansas Democrat Gazette broke the story of a Little Rock church's failure to notify members of alleged sexual abuse of minors. And the story continues to take twists and turns. The latest news was that the church had hired and then dismissed the Baptist attorney who defended convicted sex offender Josh Dugger. Church officials had hired.

Travis Story to help with a new child safety and sexual abuse prevention program. The attorney reportedly was hired for $10,000 without consultation with the church's finance team. After investigating and discovering Story's role in defending Josh Dugger against child pornography charges, financial team members insisted that the ties between the Little Rock Church and the story law firm be severed. A team member told the paper, some people did some research on that attorney, discovered who he had represented, and we didn't feel like it was advisable to have that person representing our church at this time. So Travis Story is a graduate of Liberty University School of Law and was a staff member at a campus of Cross Church, the Springdale, Arkansas

Church, previously led by Ronnie Floyd. Ronnie was who resigned as president of the the SBC executive committee in protest of a vote for transparency in massive sexual abuse investigation. A massive sexual abuse investigation. For four years, Story served as medical marijuana commissioner for the state of Arkansas, but was criticized in that role because he had ties to the industry. He is managing partner of Story Law firm, but he is perhaps best known as a legal counsel for the Dugger family and specifically Josh Dugger, not only at his trial on charges of possessing C-SAM. But earlier in a real estate scandal, in that earlier case, story was disqualified due to a conflict of interest because he was listed as an officer of the company involved in the

scandal. Already under intense scrutiny for allegedly mishandling at least two cases of child sexual abuse at the church, lead pastor Stephen Smith sought legal help from story. but after dissent from lay leaders in the church, that engagement was canceled, end quote. So when you step back and you look at everything together, it's a lot. You have extremely serious allegations involving a then nine-year-old child, a reported confession. And yet, Joseph's pleading not guilty and is already out on bond within hours after pleading. You have a family publicly acknowledging a victim while also doing everything they can to support Joseph and get him released.

You have Kendra seemingly standing by him instead of creating distance and trying to create a more stable situation for her children to return to. And then you have everything going on at the house where Kendra's staying, the deleted videos, the deleted vlogs, the police presence, the growing speculation. It just feels like there are a lot of moving pieces that don't fully line up. And honestly, this is one of those situations where what people are saying publicly versus what they are doing behind the scenes feels like two completely different things. Like you can say that you're praying for the victim all day long, but people are going to look at your actions. And the action here was to get Joseph out of jail as fast as possible.

And I think that's why this is hitting the way it is for so many of us, for so many people, because it's not just about the charges. It's about the response. And right now, the response is raising just as many questions as the allegations themselves. Hit subscribe, hit notifications. Thank you for supporting our channel and for being here. It means a lot. Because there is no way that this is a full picture quite yet.

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