Hidden True Crime - KNIFE in evidence—Now Cops are talking! EXPLOSIVE Idaho Murders Updates in pretrial hearing

Episode Date: May 16, 2025

A major development in court today in the case against Bryan Kohberger. After being in the courtroom today, Lauren is here to break it all down beginning to end. About Hidden True Crime: What started as a simple conversation at their dinner table became a captivating podcast. Join the dynamic duo of Dr. John Matthias, a criminal psychologist, and Lauren Matthias, an investigative journalist, as they delve into the psychological facets of unthinkable crimes every week. Their unique perspectives and in-depth analysis offer a fresh take on true crime storytelling. Thank you for your support through sponsorships, subscribing, listening, and becoming a Patreon member at Patreon.com/HiddenTrueCrime Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Lately, I've been trying to be more intentional about what I wear, intentional about everything, just choosing pieces that feel effortless, still put together, timeless, but also not overthinking it every morning. It's why I keep going back to quince. Their pieces just make getting dressed easier and I feel so classy. I feel elevated. The fits are flattering. The fabric is really high quality. Everything is wearable day to day. I actually got this really, really, beautiful yellow V-neck midi dress from them, and I paired it with some Italian leather sandals. It's one of those outfits that just works. It feels polished but still comfortable. It's exactly what I've been looking for. What surprises me, though, is the quality for the price. Quince uses

premium materials like European linen, organic cotton, but they cut out the middleman. So everything is priced way lower than you'd expect. Refresh. your every day with luxury you can actually use. Head to quince.com slash hidden true crime for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. That's quince, quince, ui and c e.com slash hidden true crime for free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com slash hidden true crime. When you finally find your thing, you want the whole world to know about that thing. So you use a thing called Canva to make it an even bigger. and better thing. Whether you want to create flyers for that thing, make presentations for that thing,

or design merch for that thing, you can do anything. So people can see your thing, feel your thing, love your thing. The next thing you know, it's a thing. Canva, the thing that makes anything a thing. It appears likely that someone currently or formally associated with law enforcement, the prosecution team, or defense counsel violated this court's non-dissemination order. Hello, Hidden Jems. The pre-trial hearing for the state of Idaho against Brian Kovberger happened today. May 15, 2025. And the hearing uncovered some never heard pieces of an unending puzzle,

and we will unpack all of it right here. I was there in person to make sure that I can bring you the latest and most detailed information as possible about this truly horrific yet captivating case. I sat just two rows behind the man accused of killing University of Idaho roommates Madison Mogan, Kili Gonzalez, Ziana Kurnodl, and her boyfriend, Ethan Chapin, in November of 2022. Brian Koverger, wearing a white dress shirt, khaki pants, and a striped tie, sat alert with uncuffed hands primarily folded in his lap. And even though Brian is innocent until proven guilty, I will admit that being so close to him was haunting for me, more so than I even expected. So let's go through

everything that went down today and make sure you stick around until the very end, where I will discuss a brand new bombshell filing issued by the judge just this afternoon, like after the pretrial hearing concluded, or at least after the public part of the pretrial hearing. concluded because once again, some of it was sealed. But just in case you haven't been following along with other trials that we've covered here at Hidden True Crime, pre-trial hearings are a very important aspect of any case. The pretrial hearing allows all parties to discuss how a trial will proceed. They can resolve preliminary issues, go over any motions brought by the state in defense,

as well as worked out scheduling details. And these pretrial hearings also often hold those hidden bombshells. and today was no exception. Today's hearing began with Judge Stephen Hibbler, stating that he plans to break down and go through the trial process and stages. That way, the state and defense can bring up any issues and ask questions pertaining to each specific phase of the case. And he said that much of today's hearing may sound like he's lecturing about things he wants and expects.

And admittedly, I actually agreed with him saying that when he said, this might sound like lecturing. I ought to say it did. But he said the reason is that when we get, get to the actual trial, everything will go as smoothly as possible. He is very clearly a no nonsense judge and said that he wants everyone to hear his expectations directly from him rather than asking around to those who have experienced trials with him previously. He wants it to come from him. I get that. Rather than hearsay. Judge Hippler came right out and said that he is not a fan of surprises. He wants to

know in advance if there are issues that need to be addressed, including evidentiary issues. He does not want objections being made about evidence in the middle of trial or in front of the jury. He does not like making important decisions like that on the fly and he needs to be able to look at each issue in depth in order to make the best ruling for everyone. Most importantly, the judge said he doesn't like frustrating the jury by making them sit around doing nothing while they make decisions that could have already been handled. For a trial that's already expected to last several months with. this highly public interest. He wants to respect and minimize the jurors' downtime as much as possible.

And to help with this, he expects any issues to be brought up before and after court each day and not in the middle of a day of trial. Throughout the hearing, he reiterated that the jury questionnaire that will be sent out shortly, this trial is coming up, guys. It is extremely confidential and will not ever be made available to the public. He briefly discussed jury instructions as well, and said that there will be an instruction on how to handle the IGG tip. This is referring to investigative genetic genealogy. We know how important that is to this case, investigative genetic genealogy. And if you recall, this is how investigators were able to point to Brian as a suspect

because a small amount of his DNA was located on the snap of the knife sheath found at the crime scene. Judge, the blur also asked that each side work on an instruction. related to the use of the terms surrounding, quote, surrounding, and quote, touch DNA. He is not going to prohibit the use of those words, but he wants them to be professionally clarified for the jury. Hibbler also discussed an exhibit that has been referred to as the dollhouse. I mean, when he brought this up, like, wait, dollhouse, he asked that the defense had a chance to view this exhibit. And prosecutor Bill Thompson said they did facilitate a viewing for them yesterday. Thompson also clarified that referring to the exhibit as a dollhouse may have been a mischaracterization

and that model would be a better term to use going forward. And I agree with that. It's a model house, not a doll house. So through this discussion, we can infer that a model of the house is the model of the house where the murders took place on King Road and that it has been made and it will be shown in court. And so, as many recall, let's remember that the house where the roommates lived and were murdered was demolished in December of 2023. Many opposed that demolition due to saying that it could still hold evidence needed in trial.

But the University of Idaho went forward with his plans to tear down the house, but not before both the prosecution and defense accessed the home for any evidence and that the evidence. and that the FBI accessed the house to conduct scans for the purpose of creating visual aids for trial. And I will say, I remember when it was being torn down and all the arguments. And the prosecution and defense were like, you know, the prosecution is like, we're good, we're good. And then the day before they demolished the house, what was happening? They were going through the house. Well, the FBI, again, also accessed the house to conduct scans, you know, again, for visual aids for trial.

and it looks like those visual aids have been made into a model home that will be used in trial. However, the defense has objected to using this model because it wasn't made to the exact scale of the actual house. And admittedly, it does sound concerning to me. I want to know what is the scale then. Defense attorney and Taylor also asked where the model will be stored when not in use. And Judge Hepler said that he will find a place so that it is not just sitting in the courtroom. because as you can imagine or I can imagine, having a model of the house where this horrific crime took place on display

for an extended period of time would likely be pretty upsetting to the witnesses and family members of the victims. So through this exchange, we also learned that witnesses and experts may use the model to point to things and show specific areas in the house during the testimony. And the house certainly holds a lot of curiosity. Many people that question Brian Kover's guilt say he couldn't have possibly done it in that amount of time, knowing that the house was multiple stories. So the fact that we're going to have a model and it will be used, it sounds like for several testimonies, is going to be very

interesting. Next, the judge told the defense and state that he appreciates their willingness and ability to work together thus far. So nice of him, it's almost like a Thanksgiving meal that's about to go bad. But he's saying, look, I appreciate that you guys are working together well. But however, he said, it would be best if they do come to any mutual decisions to make sure they put everything in writing for both sides protection. That's what I mean the Thanksgiving dinner gone bad. Like, look, you guys are getting along, but I know it's going to not be great. So can we put everything in writing for both sides protection? And next, the judge stated that he asked his law clerk to get a description of each one of the witnesses, like an actual description. This will include

who they work for, where they're from, or anything else that can be used to categorize the witnesses for the juror questionnaire. Because they're going to be hundreds of witnesses' names. So categorizing them will help potential jurors identify anyone they may know more easily. So for example, if you have a John Smith and you're asking in a juror questionnaire, do you know this witness and they're, you know, not sure and there's hundreds of people listed and they have to scan all of these witnesses to find out if they know anyone, the judge is saying, look, let's put in this juror questionnaire where they work, who they are about them a little bit more so people can really understand if it's the john smith that works at the mcdonald's you know um on third

street and then they can really understand if they do or do not know these witnesses because knowing a witness would qualify the jurors from being on the jury so i guess i would say disqualify somewhat not a juror a potential juror from actually being picked for the jury the next topic discussed was the defense's proffer that they submitted in regards to other potential perpetrators guys this is the This is interesting. Listen to this. So a proffer that they submitted in regard to other potential perpetrators in trial, a proffer is an offer of information in support of an argument or defense. So Hippler said that the proffer will be sealed, but asked the defense to provide more information. In other words, again, this is interesting. Brian Coburger's defense wants to argue that

someone else might be responsible for this crime. They want to introduce a third-party culprit. This isn't an uncommon defense strategy. Think of Delphi-Indiana case, where Richard Allen was found guilty of murdering best friends Abby and Libby. And the defense, in that case, attempted to introduce odinism as another potential perpetrator. Someone else that could have committed this crime, the cult of odinists in the area. But the judge in that case shot down this third party being presented in

court because the defense couldn't show enough evidence connecting odinous to the actual crime. Well, this is no different. Brian Coburger's defense is submitting potential other perpetrators, but the judge wants the evidence that supports this allegation in the proffer, which again will be sealed, and he wants the defense to give an explanation as to why they think this third party and evidence should be admissible in court, why it would be okay to bring this into the trial. So after the defense does this, then the judge wants the state or the prosecution to respond quickly. Then they will have a hearing regarding the proffer on June 18th. I would like to be here for that.

That is going to be very interesting in my opinion. I will do my best to be here. The next topic discussed was Voidier, which is a legal process where potential jurors are questioned to determine if they are suitable to be on the jury. Hibler stated that traditionally in Idaho, the court does their voir dire first to see if there is any potential knowledge or bias. And after that, the state and defense are then given the opportunity to conduct their own idea. And I have actually now seen two of these happen in Idaho. And it is true, these last a lot longer than other trials, criminal trials that I have attended that go very quickly. because they do essentially two or three.

After they go through the initial one, Voidier, they then do another for the defense of prosecution. Chad Deba and Lori Vallow, both took actually quite a long time, a couple of weeks. So after having potential jurors questioned in a group, once you make it far in the process, we'll be questioned individually about very sensitive topics and to see if they have any knowledge of the case from the media.

They will also ask the proselytons. respective jurors' views on capital punishment or the death penalty. The judge stated that the larger group-wide-year process will be open to the victim's families and streamed inside the courthouse, but will not be streamed online. This makes complete sense. He said that he does not want internet sleuths, and he used that term internet sleuth, looking up potential jurors and invading their privacy before the trial has even begun. They will also never be referred to by name, the jurors, but only by a random number they are assigned to to protect their identity. Also, typical practice. The only way to protect a juror is by protecting their identity. And once the jury is selected, the judge

stressed the importance of counsel, witnesses, staff, or anybody affiliated with the case, not having any contact with the jurors, even if that's out in public at the grocery store or coffee shop, no one is to engage in pleasantries or any contact whatsoever. So in other words, if you see a juror out and about, run. Run the other way as fast as you can. And I have experiences in criminal trials where the jurors are actually wandering the courthouse because they're not sequestered or even in a room for lunch. Like the Lori Valo Daybell trial in Arizona recently, where we saw Justice for Charles

Vallow, the jurors were out and about and I would come out for lunch to do a lunch live that I typically do when I cover these trials. And I would see a juror, and that's exactly what I would do. It was like I couldn't get away from them fast enough. Run, run the other way. And then Judge Hibler is stating that. Next, the judge explained that before trial begins, each side needs to arrange where each witness will stay lodging-wise.

So the jurors may eventually need to be sequestered, meaning they might need to stay in a hotel due to the public interest in this case and to make sure they stare clear of any bias or misinformation or evidence that isn't presented in the actual trial. And the jurors will definitely be sequestered during deliberations for the verdict. So they will need to stay at a hotel and no counsel or witnesses, so no attorneys, no witnesses are allowed to stay in the same hotel as the jurors. So let's make sure we're all good there with those hotels. And then after all of those matters, the judge transitioned into discussing the actual trial itself. He said that court will take place Monday through Friday

in the Ada County Courthouse and that everyone needs to be ready to go by 8.15 a.m. And that is fast because the courthouse doesn't even open until 8. So at 815 a.m., everyone is ready to go. And from 815 to 845, any issues or evidentiary objections can be discussed. Sessions with the jury present will begin at 845 each morning. Court will end at 3.30, So even though it starts early, it'll end early. But when they enter a sequestered phase, and the hours will be extended after court, there will be time to discuss any more issues that come up throughout the day. And it makes sense.

The judge is saying, I am not going to waste the public's time. Jurors sacrifice so much. If they are sequestered, we're absolutely going to take longer days in court. Next, the judge stated that if either side plans to use any technology, they need to make sure it actually works in the courtroom ahead of time. And I'm sort of giggling because I have to say I have never attended a criminal trial where there hasn't been technical difficulties in the courtroom. And I'm sure that the judge is used to this. So he is saying in this pretrial hearing, look, you got to make sure it works. and you can tell that he doesn't like to waste any time.

And like he said before, he simply doesn't like surprises. He expects everything to go smoothly by things being prepared well in advance. He said that if they aren't technologically savvy to find someone who can help them. And if there are any technical difficulties, he may allow for a short recess to work it out. But if it takes you long, they will just have to move forward like goodbye evidence. So if you don't figure it out, don't expect your evidence to even be submitted. They need to plan ahead and have multiple versions of audio and video exhibits in case any portion needs to be quickly redacted as well. Next, the judge moved on to discuss seating in the courtroom and the trial broadcast.

This is interesting for me because I plan to attend. There will be reserved seating for the victim's family as well as Brian's family, as well as the two surviving roommates, Bethany Funk and Dylan Mortensen. Hivler said that given the way Bethany and Dylan have been treated. by the media, he's not sure if they'll even want to attend. But if they do, they will have a reserved seat. This was an interesting moment for me. And to me, I appreciated that the judge said this. I think it shows his compassion for all of the victims in this case and also shows how he is upset how some of the media has handled this case as well. But those two surviving roommates, if they want to attend, will have a reserved seat.

respect that so much. A live stream of this trial will be run and broadcast by the court. So again, there's no court TV in this trial. This is going to be broadcast by the court, just as it was today. Both the state and defense requested that certain witnesses, including law enforcement, that does covert work as well as Bethany and Dylan, to not have their faces shown during testimony. This is interesting. So while it will be broadcast, anyone that needs to do, you know, work like an FBI agent who needs their face hidden, covert work, will have their identity hidden. They will not be shown on camera.

But that's not just it. Bethany and Dylan will also not have their faces shown during their testimony. The judge agreed that the roommates will not be shown. But due to the public interest in this case and the right to know and see all of the evidence other witnesses will not be concealed. He said for the public to be accepting of whatever verdict is reached, they need to see all of the evidence and witness testimony. I love this. Thank you. Thank you, Judge. I am so passionate about transparency. If we want to be able to trust a verdict, we need to be able to see it. Again, many of you know that I spent weeks in Delphi, Indiana,

because there was a trial that was not broadcast for the public. We could not bring in anything. There was no audio. And so I tried to relay my best as to what was happening in there. But to this day, people are still not accepting of the guilty verdict of Richard Allen. I accept it. I saw the evidence. I believe it.

I believe that the jury came to the right decision in that case. But how is the public ever supposed to know that? And so the judge is staying here for the public to be accepting. of whatever verdict is reached, they need to see all of the evidence and witness testimony. Thank you, Judge. I love this. The next topic discussed was opening statements. The judge said that as we've all figured out by now, he is not tolerant of arguing, and this also means during opening statements. He went so far as to say that if there are any objections, any objections during opening statement, they will automatically be sustained, so don't even try. Each side

will be given the same amount of time for their openings, and they will be held to that time during trial. They better stick to it. No going over there a lot of time for opening statements. And any exhibits used during opening need to be pre-approved and provided to the other side for review in advance. That way, if there are any objections, they can be worked out beforehand.

And then the judge stated that by 5 p.m. each day of the trial, both sides need to let the other know which witnesses they plan to call, the next day and in what order. They also need to provide a list of exhibits they plan to present with each witness so that they can be adequately prepared. This judge likes preparation. He also discussed his rules for making objections. So he has rules for objections. He stated if there are any objections to questions or exhibits, they should be stated simply and without an argumentative tone. He is going to keep the peace at this Thanksgiving dinner between prosecution and defense. And if there are any questions or arguments to a specific ruling,

counsel needs to approach the bench so that the jury doesn't hear the discussion. He doesn't prefer sending the jury out of the room to have arguments because he doesn't like wasting their time unless it is a significant issue and will take more than a few minutes. And next, the judge said that he is not fond of anyone making accusations against opposing counsel. So no accusations from the prosecution about the defense. and vice versa. If there are any, it needs to be supported by well-founded and specific evidence. In many trials, we have absolutely seen opposing counsel take digs at each other here and there. But there won't be any of that in front of Judge Hipler or this jury.

Even though tensions can arise throughout trial, he expects everyone to get along as professionally as possible. Next, the judge stated that if there are any potentially dangerous evidence exhibits, they will need to be displayed in an evidence case. All right, guys. And what did he say next? So any dangerous evidence exhibits need to be displayed in an evidence case. The judge then said this includes knives, meaning that the state may have an actual knife to show the jury. Now, this could just be an example of the weapon used, or perhaps the state has located what they believe to be the murder weapon. I saw many people commenting about the statement from the judge in our live stream. Up until this point, we've all been under the assumption that no weapon has been

located. So to hear that a knife may be in evidence was pretty jarring. However, like I said, this may just be an example of the type of knife that was used. But man, Judge Hippler absolutely knows that a knife was used to kill the four university students. And I can't imagine he would choose a weapon to use as a random example. Again, though, it could also just be a knife that models the murder weapon, the exact same replica of a knife and the sheath that Brian Koviger purchased on Amazon. I'm not sure. We're going to have to wait and see because hearing the judge describe how an alleged knife will need to be displayed as evidence during this murder trial was not missed. Admittedly, after the hearing, I was actually asked by more than one person if I felt

they had found the murder weapon and had it in possession. And I'm simply curious to hear what you guys think and what your thoughts are. So let's just take a listen to exactly what the judge said here. Physical object exhibits work with the marshals on getting them in the courthouse. So for example, if it's something that's going to raise alarms at the security line, such as, I don't know, a knife, make sure you've got the aid of security in advance to get through that. The TCA can direct you to the Marshal Service and who to talk to there. We tend to use four dangerous items like guns and knives, a display box that the item would then be locked in. to display to the jury and so that that can go to the jury without fear of an accident happening.

I don't think there are any guns in this case, so I'm not just worried about that in terms of those being pointed at anyone by accident. But in terms of the knife or being a display case. So he explains that there are not guns. He makes that clear as well, which certainly implies that that there will likely be knives or a knife. And again, it could be a replica. It could be the same, but it certainly makes us speculate. For closing arguments, the judge said he wants to know an estimate of time each side expects to take.

They will then be a lot of the same amount of time and held to that again during trial. So just like opening statements. Between now and when trial begins, the judge said that he will be going through each side's list of evidence and any objections they have that will. way he can make his ruling decisions ahead of time. And they may have more than one hearing to discuss those things. The next topic was jury instructions. Ipler said that during typical cases, they instruct the jury not to concern themselves with the punishment of the criminal, the punishment that the criminal will face if they are found guilty. So in other words, the jury has enough weight on

their shoulders to decide whether someone is guilty or not. In the court doesn't really want to instruct the jury to concern themselves with the punishment the criminal will face if they are found guilty. However, in a death penalty case, they have to inform the jury that the death penalty is a possible punishment. The jury also has to recommend what penalty to impose, but that shouldn't be taken into account when determining guilt. So if there is a guilty verdict, Hipler states that they will begin the penalty phase immediately

afterwards, like the next day. This is because the jury will be against sequestered, staying in hotels, away from home, away from their families, you know, sitting around during this process. So it is important to move things along as quickly as possible. He said that in this case, he has no discretion on penalty. It's either life without parole or death, if Brian is found guilty. And just so you know, I have already experienced watching this process in the Ada County courthouse once before. Same courthouse, Ada County Courthouse. And that was with Chad Daybell. Both Chad Daybell and Lori Ballow's trials were in this same courthouse that Brian Kovberger's trial will be held. And this is exactly how it happened with the Chad Daybell trial. The jury found Chad

Daybell guilty of killing Tiley, JJ, and Tammy. And directly after they began the penalty phase. and the jury had to then come together again after deciding that they recommended Chad Daybell faced the death penalty. I cannot imagine. And the Chad Daybell jurors that I spoke to afterwards who sentenced Chad Daybell to death did explain the weight of this decision that was on their shoulders. It's just one extra thing as to why this is going to be such a heavy trial for this jury. And without any contested motions to discuss, that was really everything, that took place during the pretrial hearing or at last, at least the pretrial hearing that the public and the media was allowed to see because we were then escorted out for lunch.

We were asked to leave and we knew that they were going to meet back up at lunch, after lunch, but that it was going to be sealed. Everything was going to be under seal during that time. The judge did say that they will go more in depth on specific jury questions in private. So that was going to be one thing that was discussed. that there was no way that this can get out to the public. It makes sense. This was a very thorough pretrial hearing, in my opinion. And you can tell that the judge wants to get as many logistical things squared away far in advance. And this will undoubtedly help the trial move along more smoothly,

and he's definitely made his expectations clear. Well, and speaking of expectations, Right after the hearing today that went off without a single hitch, there was a brand new filing that came as a surprise to say the least. And we definitely need to talk about it right now. This filing is in regards to someone potentially violating the gag order issued by Judge Hippler, and it is very clear that he is not happy at all. And when I say someone, I mean law enforcement, according to the judge. supposedly there was leaked information that was featured on a recent Dateline episode titled The Terrible Night on King Road. I know many of you have seen it. It was broadcast by NBC on May

night earlier this month. The filing states, quote, and I'm going to read it here, based on sensitive information not previously publicly circulated that was reported during a recent Dateline TV program related to this case and the defendant Brian Coburger, it appears likely that someone currently or formally associated with law enforcement, the prosecution team or defense counsel violated this court's non-dissemination order. Such violations not only undermine the rule of law, potentially by persons charged with upholding it, but also significantly impede the ability to seat an impartial jury and will likely substantially increase the cost to be borne by the taxpayers of Leyta County to prosecute this case by extending the time it will take

to seat a jury and potentially requiring a lengthy period of juror's sequestration. Sequestriation. Accordingly, the court finds it is imperative to attempt to see that the source of such leak is identified and held to account and that doing so is the best deterrent to future violations. Accordingly, the court finds it is appropriate to exercise its discretion by entering this order, end quote. So as you can see, the judge is not playing around, and he is now ordering everyone involved in the case to provide all of their text messages, emails, and phone logs with representatives of the media that could be related to this case.

There will be an investigation into all of these records to find out where this leak came from that was then used in this Dateline episode. Further, in the document it states, quote, It is hereby ordered that all persons who at any time past or present worked directly or indirectly by employment, contract, consultation, or otherwise for or on behalf of any law enforcement, the prosecution, agency, Brian Coburg's defense counsel, or engage in the investigation or prosecution of persons for the murder that are

the subject of the instant case are hereby prohibited from deleting, discarding, overriding, overriding, destroying, altering, or otherwise making unavailable any records, files, documents, metadata, messages, emails, text messages,

direct or private messages, phone logs of communications, regardless of whether made or kept, on a work-owned or personal account device or messaging app that in any way relates to or documents the fact or substance of communications with third persons, including representatives of the media or other persons or entities outside of law enforcement, which communications in any way relate to, refer to, or concern the investigation of Brian Coburger, the facts or allegations uncovered or reported by law enforcement concerning Brian Koberger or the investigation into the

homicides that are the subject of the current or the potential criminal prosecution of Brian Kovberger. That was a very long sentence. That might be the longest sentence I've ever read. Well, in other words, too long didn't read that very long sentence. No evidence tampering. If anyone attempts to delete any evidence from your private devices, not just work devices, but your private devices, look out.

All such documents or materials or records that could potentially constitute a document, even if is uncertain whether such meet that criteria, shall be preserved and must be protected from deletion, alteration, or loss until further order of the court. And any feature on any device or account that is set to automatically delete or override information that could be covered by this order must immediately be disabled.

I mean, this is getting intense. It is further ordered that within seven days the state shall submit to the court, seven days here, in camera, a list of all individuals within law enforcement and prosecuting agencies past or present who are known to have access to any facts related to the investigation of defendant, including, but not. limited to surveillance videos of suspect vehicle one, the AT&T records for defendant's cell phone, and the contents of defendant's cell phone and other electronic devices and social media accounts, including internet search history, photographs, and information associated with defendant's

Amazon account, or any information referenced in the above-mentioned Dateline episode regarding this case. So let's just go over a few of those things over time because they're telling us what the judge is most upset about. That Dateline episode was long. It was info packed. It was good. It was good. And I'm going to admit to, by the way, guys, we were interviewed for that dayline episode. Didn't make the cut, but we were interviewed. But we watched. It was full of info. We did not know. I did not know this stuff. I can tell you that. Here is the issues with the, this is the leaks that they want to know about. The AT&T records.

So Brian Coburger's cell phone, the contents of Brian Coburger's cell phone, all of his other electronic device and social media accounts, internet searches. Remember how he searched Ted Bundy? That was shown on the Dayline account. History, photographs, and information

associated with the defendant's Amazon account. Remember, we now know that he purchased a knife, a sheath and a sharpener in March. So that Amazon account is pretty important. Any information referenced in the above-mentioned daylight episode regarding this case. That's a lot. The state is further required to provide a copy of this order to all such individuals and documents that it has done so. Failure to comply with this order may be a basis for finding of contempt of court and such other civil or criminal consequences.

criminal consequences as may be appropriate. Within seven days, the state and lead defense counsel must also provide to the court a written plan designed to address and prevent the future unauthorized disclosure of information related to this case and what it has done or proposes to do to identify any violations of the court's non-dissemination orders previously entered in this case and those responsible for such violations. End quote. So, even though most of this matter was discussed during the closed portion of today's hearing, so now we kind of know what was maybe talked about in that closed sealed portion

besides just jury questionnaires, the judge did briefly mention a daylight episode during the open public portion of today's pretrial hearing. So the judge stated that the day after the day, eight line episode aired. It was then that the judge decided to add additional alternate jurors for the trial. He was going to have six alternate jurors, which is still a lot. And now he has decided on eight, meaning 20 jurors will be seated. Twelve who deliberate and decide Brian Kovberger's fate and eight who will be in court and in case some jurors are not able to complete their service for any reason. He wants 20 jurors. He can. He

Can't have more than that, but it was after the Dateline episode that he said, you know what? I have got to fill every juror seat available that I have. And the gag order, also let's talk about the gag order. There is a gag order and this is why this could actually be criminal or civil consequences. The gag order that the judge referenced has been in place since 2023. And the judge even said that he would be open to appointing a special prosecutor to track down the dateline leak and feels that it is likely law enforcement. Of course, you mentioned prosecution and defense and others.

But the gag order is one reason. I just want to say this too, that I think that this trial will be so compelling. Dateline's evidence, we learned so much from that dateline. And what we learned points to Brian's motive being very sinister. Again, for me, one big part of that Dayline episode was learning that he was, he was Googling Ted Bundy. You know, did he want to be a serial killer? Like, that's something. I've been talking to so many people about this trial on this case.

And I think the one thing that everyone finds so compelling that's universal is, is the motive. Why? This was so heinous. This was so heartless. This was so cruel. This was, you know, sadistic. was so unnecessary and shocking and horrific. And it's these these young adults, I so often want to say kids. I know they weren't kids. These young adults were in the prime of their life. Their futures were

taken from them. And what I think is going to be the most interesting about this trial is that there has always been this gag order, this sort of, sort of this we cannot get information, enough information to really understand what is happening. And there will be so much evidence presented in this trial. I think that we simply do not know. And I want to know because sunlight is the best disinfected. There are so many people that want to know. I was in trial today with people that think Brian Koberger is innocent

and with people that can't wait for him to be found guilty. People want to know. And we want to understand how something so, horrific and so sinister could happen to four dear friends living their very best lives. I will continue following this case and this trial. For many of you that have been following with hidden shoe crime, you know that we were covering this, this case from the very beginning before Brian Coburger was even arrested. We were on the first Dateline episode. And I have respected, I want to say, datelines work on this case. They have, they have cared. They have cared about the

families and I have respected their work. So this is a really interesting sort of twist that there might be someone leaking to daylight. But we were following this case from the very beginning. We were the ones that brought you the visual snow drop. We, we, that where Brian Cover talked about his visual snow. And then we had to work on other cases with the Chad Daybell case, the Lori Valo case, so many other cases that we were covering. There's, you know, John and I, are only two people. But we are back and we care about this case and we will be following this trial. So thank you for following along. We are back in. Hit subscribe, hit notifications and may justice be served. We'll see you. Before I switched to wealth front, my APY was probably zero point one. Like it was a joke.

I was literally getting pennies. Once I switched chiching with a wealth front cash account, earn up to 4.2% APY on your cash. The high APY with wealth front was a clear, winner. There are no petty fees. Every month, there's this much that I'm getting an interest and I didn't have to do anything. My money is working hard on its own and I can trust Wellfront is taking care of me. Earn more on your uninvested cash with a Wealthfront cash account. No account fees, no minimums, and no strings attached. Get started today at Wealthfront.com. Clients were paid $1,000 for their testimonials creating a conflict of interest. Outcomes vary. 3.3%. As of January 30th, 2026 is representative variable and earned on funds swept to program banks.

0.65% new client boosts for three months on up to $150,000. Direct deposit $1,000 a month and fund an investing account for a 0.25% increase. Cash account offered by Wealthfront Brokerage LLC member FINRA SIPC not a bank. These eligibility requirements may apply to certain checking features of the cash account. At my bank, I was literally getting pennies using Wealthfront. Cheching, there's this much that I'm getting an interest and I didn't have to do anything. Clients like Angela earn up to 4.2% APY on their cash with the Wealthfront cash account. Get started at Wealthfront.com.

It was paid $1,000 for their testimonial, creating a conflict of interest. Outcomes vary. 3.3%. Base API as of January 30 at 20206 is representative variable and earned on funds swept to program banks. 0.65% new client boost for three months on up to $150,000. Direct deposit $1,000 a month and fund an investing account for a 0.25% increase. Cash account offered by Wealthfront Brokerage LLC member FINRA SIPC, not a bank.