Hidden True Crime - Kouri Richins BOMBSHELL - Star Witness RECANTS | Could She Walk Free?!

Episode Date: October 4, 2025

The “grief book mom” case just took a dramatic turn. A key witness has backtracked, prosecutors are accused of withholding evidence, and Kouri Richins’ attorneys say this changes everything. SKIMS: Shop SKIMS Fits Everybody collection at SKIMS.com. After you place your order, be sure to let them know we sent you! Select "podcast" in the survey and be sure to select our show in the dropdown menu that follows. About Hidden True Crime What started as a simple conversation at their dinner table became a captivating podcast. Join the dynamic duo of Dr. John Matthias, a criminal psychologist, and Lauren Matthias, an investigative journalist, as they delve into the psychological facets of unthinkable crimes every week. Their unique perspectives and in-depth analysis offer a fresh take on true crime storytelling. Thank you for your support through sponsorships, subscribing, listening, and becoming a Patreon member at⁠ ⁠Patreon.com/HiddenTrueCrime⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Cash account offered by Wealthfront brokerage LLC member FINRA SIPC, not a bank. Instant withdrawal subject to conditions, fees and eligibility requirements may apply to certain checking features of the cash account. My name is Lauren. This is Hidden True Crime. And on Thursday, October 2nd, some breaking news shook the Corey, Richie. case. Now, if you need a quick refresher, Corey Richens is a Utah mom who has been making national headlines. Some know her as the grief mom or grief book mom. We'll explain why in just a minute. She's currently behind bars awaiting trial for the 2022 death of her husband, Eric Richens. You can find

my full backstory on this case in pinned comments or in the description of this video or episode. Prosecutors allege that Eric Richens was poisoned with fentanyl slipped into a Moscow mule. His wife, gave him one evening at their home. And what makes this case even more chilling for many is what happened after Eric's death. Rather than retreating into private grief, Corey actually wrote and published a children's book about coping with loss. Yeah, that's where grief book mom comes in. She then went on her local television station in Salt Lake City, the ABC affiliate, promoting the book and talking about the pain of losing a loved one, all while all while. investigators were quietly building a case against her. And then in May of 2023, the shocking

arrest came. And then just this past June, she was hit with 26 new charges for a slew of financial crimes. Corey has been sitting in the Summit County Jail without bail, waiting for her trial, a trial that as of now has been pushed all the way back until 2026. So now, there has been a major twist as of Thursday. Her defense team, has filed two motions, one motion asking for the court to reconsider bail, and another motion that is a request for order-compelling disclosure of exculpatory evidence. Exculpatory evidence. So why now?

Because one of the key witnesses, someone who had previously claimed to play a role in helping Corey obtain fentanyl has officially recanted. He's walked back his earlier statement saying that he was not, in fact, involved the way investigators believed. And the defense said they only just found this out while the prosecution has known about this since April. April. And so for Corey's attorneys, this is big. They're arguing that if one of the state star witnesses can no longer back up those accusations, then the justification for keeping Corey locked up without bail isn't nearly as strong as it once.

For prosecutors, though, the question becomes how much of their case was resting on this witness and does his reversal crack open the door for Corey to get out while she waits for trial? So tonight, we're going to walk through it all piece by piece from the brand new motions to the two affidavits this witness has written that is now filed. Each one tells a slightly different story, but together they raise some serious questions. about what really happened and who's telling the truth and how all of this could impact Corey Richon's future and this case. So let's start with the man at the center of this latest twist. His name is Robert Crozier. Not to be mistaken for Robert Grossman, who was Corey's

handyman and lover. There's a lot of Roberts in this case, just like there's a lot of Melanies and the Lori and Chad Daybell case, a lot of Roberts in this case. So this is not Robert Grossman. This is Robert Crozier. And prosecutor allege that Corey Richens did not get her hands on fentanyl directly, but rather through her housekeeper, a woman named Carmen Lauber. So Carmen is really important in this case. Carmen has already admitted that, yes, she was the one who supplied Corey with the fentanyl. But that raises the next obvious question. So where did Carmen get the fentanyl? And according to Carmen, that answer is this Robert, Crozier, the new Robert.

She got the fentanyl through Robert, although Carmen calls him Robbie. And this Robert, he's the man, the prosecutors say, was the ultimate source of the drugs that ended up in Eric Richens, Moscow Mule. And it's Robbie's story, his shifting statements, his affidavits, and now his recantation that has thrown the entire case into a new level of uncertainty. and in an affidavit filed by Robert written on September 10th, and by the way, he is currently incarcerated, he writes, quote, I have been identified as a witness in the above stated matter. And in that capacity, I have been interviewed on two separate occasions by individuals associated with the prosecution of Corey Darden Richens. I have been told that the first interview was on or about May 4, 2023.

It was conducted by two officers from the Summit County. Police Department at the Davis County Jail. I do not know the names of the officers who interviewed me. On May 4th, 2020, I had been in jail for a short time and was detoxing from drug use. I do not have any personal recollection of the details of that interview, although I have since been told that I agreed that I had sold fentanyl to Carmen Lauber in 2022 on two occasions. In early April of 2025, I was asked to meet with two people from the Summit County Attorney's Office. I believe that, that both individuals were prosecutors, and they told me they were prosecuting Corey Richens. I believe that one of them was Brad Bloodworth. I cannot recall the name of the other individual

who was at the meeting, but it was a man with a beard. I was sober at that meeting and had been sober for over three months. We met at Starbucks coffee in downtown Salt Lake City. I believe that it was the Starbucks on 80th South Main Street. I've been to that Starbucks, by the way. Anyway, Anyway, moving on, Mr. Bloodworth and the other individual asked me if I had sold fentanyl to Carmen Lauber. I told them no. I sold oxy cotton to Carmen Lauber on two occasions in early 2022. I told them I met her at the Maverick and Draper both times to sell her the pills.

They asked why I had previously told officers that I had sold her fentanyl. I told them I did not remember saying that and that I had been detoxing during that interview and was out of it. I told them that I was certain that I had sold Carmen Lauber oxy cotton, 30 milligram pills, otherwise known as Roxy's or Roxy30. They asked me several times if I was sure, and I told them, yes, I was sure I sold her oxy cotton. I was told at that meeting that I would be called as a witness in this case and that the Summit County Attorney's Office would be putting me up in a hotel near the courthouse, end quote.

What an affidavit. Well, in the second affidavit, he writes, Quote, in early 2022, I was contacted by my friend Nicole Cummings, telling me that a friend of her by the name of Carmen Lauber was looking for some pills and would be contacting me. Soon after, I received messages from Carmen Lauber asking to purchase some pills. And on at least one occasion, she told me she wanted Roxy30s. And on at least one other occasion, she said she wanted blues. Blues. I understood this to mean that she wanted 30 milligram oxy cotton pills in early 2022. I knew the term blues to mean oxy cotton. I did not associate the term blues with fentanyl

until late 2022. I met with Carmen Lauer on two occasions in February of 2022, had a maverick in Draper and sold her oxy cotton. The first time I sold her 30 pills. The second time I sold her more than 30 pills, but I can't recall how many. These were the only two times I've met Carmen Lauber. I did not know her before she contacted me, and I have not had contact with her since February of 2022. I began selling fentanyl at the end of 2022. In May of 2023, I was arrested for possessing fentanyl and was in Davis County Jail. At that time, two officers from the Summit County Police Department interviewed me. I do not remember their names. I was very confused during this interview as I was detoxing from drug use and was very out of it. At first, I did not. I did not

remember Carmen Lauber, but after they reminded me, I did remember that I had sold her pills and that she was a friend of Nicole Cummings. One, I don't remember the detail of that interview, but I have since been told that during that interview, I agreed that I had sold fentanyl to Carmen Lauber and that blues refer to fentanyl. It is my belief that I agreed I had sold Carmen Lauber fentanyl because I was personally detoxing from fentanyl during that interview. And by then, I had been. been selling fentanyl, which I had come to know as blues. Okay. I am currently in recovery, and although I have relapsed during my recovery at this time, I have been sober for about three weeks.

Prior to my relapse, I had been cleaned for nine months. I did not sell Carmen Lauber fentanyl in February of 2022, but sold her 30 milligram oxy cotton pills in early 2020. I was not selling fentanyl and did not have access to fentanyl. Rather, I was selling my own oxycodone. cotton prescription, which were 10 milligram pills. If a buyer wanted stronger pills, I had a source who provided 30 milligram oxycontin, which is what I sold to Carmen Lauber. Roxy's or Roxy30s refers to 30 milligram oxycontin pills. To my knowledge, blues also referred to oxy cotton until late 2022, when I then came to know the term as also being used for fentanyl. I did not acquire a source for fentanyl until the end of 2022, the fentanyl pills that I began selling at that time were

very dark blue, almost purple. In April of 2025, I was interviewed by prosecutors with the Summit County Attorney's Office and told them I had sold oxy cotton to Carmen Lauber and not fentanyl, end quote. Talk about two interesting affidavits. And here is where things get complicated. Robert isn't just saying, I don't remember.

He's actually painting two very different pictures of what happened. In his earliest interview, while detoxing in jail, he supposedly confirmed that he sold fentanyl to Carmen. But now he insists that he only sold oxy cotton and that at the time the slang word blues meant oxy, not fentanyl. That distinction is huge. If Robert is telling the truth now, then prosecutors have built a major piece of their case on a shaky foundation. an interview with a man who was out of it, who now says he got the terminology wrong, and who has no direct connection to fentanyl in early 2022. On the other hand, if Robert is backtracking to protect himself,

and I'm sure we all wonder about that, right? What's the motive here? But if Robert is, indeed, not telling the truth, but simply backtracking to protect himself or others, then his credibility is shot, and the defense will then seize on that to dismantle the prosecution's narrative. Either way, in my opinion, the shifting statements introduce doubt. Was Corey's alleged fentanyl source really supplying fentanyl at that time? Did Carmen misrepresent what she bought?

Or did Robert change his story once he realized what it meant for him to be tied to Eric Richon's death? I think it is interesting to point out that he claims he did not know the term blues to also be used for fentanyl until late 2022. and by the time he was interviewed in May of 2023, he had already been selling that. He admits to that, but he was selling it under the name Blues for months in May of 2023.

So why would he not clarify if he didn't know that as its nickname previous? I can imagine that from the prosecution standpoint, that's a problem. You know, he's not selling blues, but then he is selling blues, and now he understands the nickname, now that he's actually selling blues, it's complicated. And if he was sober at the time and fully aware that blues had become synonymous with fentanyl,

then his claim of confusion looks less like a misunderstanding. It looks more convenient, a very convenient excuse. A great way to shift the narrative. It's an inconsistency that prosecutors will almost certainly argue shows he's backtracking, changing his story, now that he understands the weight of being tied to a murder case, a nationally known murder case, internationally known. Hello to our overseas gems.

However, the defense is not happy. This information of Robert backtracking has been kept from them, and they had to figure it out on their own. I wouldn't be happy either. They are basically now saying, look, prosecutors knew back in April that their own witness was walking back his fentanyl claim, and yet they've continued to hold that theory that she accessed fentanyl through this pipeline?

They've actually withheld this information. And if this pipeline never did exist from Robert to Carmen to Corey, then what grounds are left to get a conviction? The defense motion specifically states, quote, the prosecution has been aware of this exculpatory evidence since April of this year. The prosecution did not inform the defense of this information. No press release was issued.

No reports. nothing. The prosecution just kept quiet. In preparation for trial, defense counsel located and interviewed Mr. Robert within the past 30 days. This is how it was figured out. It was during this interview that the meeting and the exculpatory information became known to defense counsel. The prosecution is required to disclose to the defendant the following material or information directly related to the case of which the prosecution team has knowledge and control. evidence that must be disclosed under the United States and Utah constitutions, including all evidence favorable to the defendant that is material to guilt or punishment.

Their duty to disclose is a continuing duty as the material or information becomes known to the prosecutor. It goes on to say, I'll continue to quote here, that the prosecution failed to disclose evidence that not only negates Ms. Richon's guilt, but completely eviscerates the prosecution's own theory that Ms. Richens procured the fentanyl that ultimately killed her husband. The prosecution's failure to disclose and continued concealment of exculpatory evidence that Ms. Richens did not procure fentanyl inflicts ongoing harm to Ms. Richens, the public, and the integrity of our legal system. This is precisely the type of misconduct rule 3-8 was designed to prevent, by withholding this evidence, the prosecution abandons its duty

to seek justice and undermines the insurance of a fair trial. No doubt, there will be an attempt to chalk this up to an oversight, perhaps as an oversight that should be excused as nothing more than carelessness. But this was not an oversight. This was a continuing and knowing concealment. It is not a blemish on the fruit. It is wrought at the core, poisoning the whole harvest of justice. courts have long trusted the prosecution to discharge its duty without supervision. But when that trust is broken, when evidence negating guilt is withheld, trust alone no longer suffices. In this case, words like timely and becomes known suddenly demand a deadline. Council moves this court for a standing order imposing a three-day deadline on the prosecution to disclose the following to the defense.

Number one, all evidence including emails, text messages, phone messages, recordings, video footage, or any other form of correspondence involving the prosecution teams or any law enforcement official, and Robert, including correspondence about setting up a meeting and any sort of summaries of the meeting. Number two, all notes, correspondence or reports prepared by law enforcement officials, or any member of the prosecution team discussing Robert's interview in 8.5.5. April and or on any other dates. Three, any statements, recordings, reports, or notes in whatever medium, including emails and texts that tend to negate guilt.

Furthermore, the defense respectfully request this court require the prosecution to disclose on the record or to reduce to writing and provide to the defense all oral statements discovered when interviewing witnesses that tend to negate guilt or contradict prior statements made by the witnesses, end quote. You know how sometimes you try something and you instantly wonder, why didn't I do this sooner? That's exactly how I felt with the fits everybody collection from skims. Braves and underwear have always been tricky for me. They dig in, they feel uncomfortable, they just don't fit right.

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The Fits Everybody Collection now at skims.com, S-K-I-M-S dot com. And after you place your order, please be sure to let them know I sent you. Select podcast in the survey and then pick Hidden True Crime from the drop-down menu. Alongside that motion, they have also filed a motion to reconsider bail, citing a material change in circumstances. The motion reads, quote, The matter of bail has been brought before this court on two occasions. First in June, 2023, this court conducted a detention hearing and considered exhibits, testimony, and argument submitted by the parties. At that time, Ms. Richens was facing a potential death penalty on the aggravated murder charge and was not entitled to

to bail as a matter of right pursuant to Section 770-20-20 of the Utah Code. The court did, however, go on to find that there was substantial evidence to support the charge and clear and convincing evidence that the defendant would pose a substantial danger to the community if released on bail. At that time, the court made no findings of risk or flight. On October 22, 224, Ms. Richens through counsel filed a motion to reconsider bail arguing that there had been a material change of circumstances since the prior detention hearing. The court found that a material change in circumstances did exist, and on November 12, 2024, a hearing was held on the motion. After oral argument, the court ruled from that bench that there was substantial evidence to support

the charge and clear and convincing evidence that the defendant would pose a substantial danger, to the community and further was a flight risk. Ms. Richens has now been held in pre-trial custody for 28 months. The following circumstances have materially changed since the previous detention hearing and call for a renewed review of bail and or conditions of release in this case. Number one, new evidence has come to light that goes to the heart of the state's allegations that Ms. Richens poisoned her husband with fentanyl. The state's case is based on statements made by Carmen Laubert that she procured fentanyl from Robert on two occasions and sold it to Ms. Richens. The defense has recently learned that in April of 2025, Robert met with prosecutors for Summit County

and informed them that this was not true. Robert told members of the prosecution team that he did not sell fentanyl to Ms. Lauber, but rather sold her oxy cotton. One, although the state failed to disclose this exculpatory statement to the defense as required under Brady and Giglio, the defense learned of it independently when they interviewed Robert on September 3rd, 2025, to which he relayed this exculpatory information. Number two, Robert has now informed both the state and the defense that he sold only oxycotton to Carmen Lauber on two occasions in early 2022. He further told both the state and the defense that he did not recall previously telling Summit County detectives that he had sold fentanyl to Ms. Lauber and at the time of the previous

interview that he had been detoxing and was out of it. Number three, Robert, who is now sober, state that he is certain that he sold Ms. Laubert 30 milligram oxy-contin pills on both occasions. As for their argument, they are arguing against Section 77-20-20-20 of the Utah Code, which states that an individual charged with or arrested for a criminal offense shall be admitted to bail as a matter of right, except if the individual is charged with a felony when there is substantial evidence to support the charge. And the court finds by clear and convincing evidence that the individual would constitute a substantial danger to any other individual or to the community after considering conditions of release that the court may impose if the individual is released on bail or the

individual is likely to flee the jurisdiction of the court if the individual is released on bail. and quote. The part they are arguing. Substantial evidence to support the charge, the defense wrote, quote, although the court has previously found that there is substantial evidence to support the charges against Ms. Richens, Roberts' recantation of his previous statement changes the landscape to a degree that cannot be ignored. In order to continue to hold Ms. Richens without bail, the court must first find that there is substantial evidence to support the charge and that,

simply no longer exists. Our Supreme Court has explained that the purpose of the substantial evidence standard in the bail context is to ensure that the quantum of evidence presented by the state sufficiently justifies the denial of the defendant's right to freedom from pretrial incarceration. And in this matter, the state's entire theory of criminal liability is that Corey Richens procured fentanyl from her housekeeper Carmen Lauber, which she caused to be unwillingly ingested by her husband in some unknown way, directly causing his death. There is no physical evidence of this, but only the statements of Carmen Lauber. And these statements are wholly dependent on whether or not Lauber procured fentanyl from Robert.

None of these so-called fentanyl pills were found nor tested. This is true, by the way. Lauber only believes she sold Corey fentanyl because she believed that is what Robert gave her. If Robert did not, in fact, sell fentanyl to Lauber, there could be no credible argument that substantial evidence of guilt exists. Even though the prosecution's case need not be airtight and the defense must do more than have poked holes in the state's case, there must be evidence that supports the elements of the crime charged. That is not the situation before this court. If the state cannot place fentanyl in the hands of the defendant, the state has

no case. Robert's statement doesn't just poke holes in their case. It throws a grenade into the middle of it, leaving them nothing but speculation and conjuncture, getting them nowhere near the realm of reasonable doubt. Without substantial evidence to support the charge of aggravated homicide or attempted aggravated homicide, the analysis ends and Ms. Richens should be released. For the reason stated here in Ms. Richens, respectfully moves this honorable court to reconsider its previous detention ruling and grant her the privilege of pre-trial release, end quote. That is true, by the way, that they never found physical evidence. They never found fentanyl, which does mean, I'll just say, that this line of Robert to Carmen to Corey, does really matter. So where does this leave us? And I think that there will likely be a hearing in the near future. If I had to guess, and I'm just guessing, prosecutors will likely counter that Robert is not credible. that his story keeps shifting because it does,

that he was selling fentanyl for months by May of 2023, and that Carmen Lauber has already admitted that she supplied fentanyl to Corey. Carmen to Corey is a thing. But this is exactly where things get messy, credibility. And if neither story can be nailed down, then Corey's attorneys are betting, that the judge will have to seriously consider

whether keeping her locked up before the trial is even fair, especially when in their eyes, the linchpin of this state's theory now comes with this massive question mark. At the end of the day, this doesn't erase the charges against Corey, nor does it mean she's suddenly headed home. What it does mean is that her legal team has found a new opening, which is their job to do. one, they believe, could change how the court views her pre-trial detention, whether it results in a bail modification or simply adds another layer of debate for the upcoming trial, we'll see how the judge chooses to weigh this latest twist. But it's certainly a twist. And I certainly think it also shows how holes can be poked in the prosecution's case. Not everyone realizes that.

Bentonil was never found. And I think that is the biggest piece of evidence the defense has. And this helps that matter. This twist does for the defense. So Corey is still slated to head to trial in February of 2026. hidden true crime will be keeping a close eye on any updates for you as soon as they come out. I'm doing that for you. And I will be following the trial from beginning to end. So make sure to stay up to date with our full Corey Richens playlist. Check out my backstory in the description of this episode or in pinned comments. Many of you've been asking about where Dr. John is.

He will be back on YouTube soon. But for now, we released a page. Patreon only episode, a subscriber only episode. You can find that at patreon.com slash hidden true crime where we cover a lot of the cases we've been following Dr. John Waysen. So you can find him there. But for now, I will keep you updated on all of the latest crimes that we are covering. And thank you.

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