Hidden True Crime - Leaked Jail Calls: Kendra Duggar STILL Talking to Joseph — Standing By Him?! | Joseph Duggar Case

Episode Date: March 28, 2026

Newly released jail call logs reveal that Kendra Duggar is speaking with Joseph Duggar multiple times a day—and what’s said (and what’s not said) is raising serious questions. In this episode of Hidden True Crime, Lauren breaks down the disturbing allegations out of Florida, the charges tied to what investigators found inside the Duggar home, and the complicated, emotional, and cultural dynamics shaping Kendra’s response. From the tone of the calls and the “keep sweet” undertones, to a viral and unsettling moment involving Michelle Duggar that may reveal more than meets the eye, this case is forcing a deeper conversation about belief systems, control, and whether history is repeating itself inside one of reality TV’s most scrutinized families Sponsor: OneSkin: Get 15% off OneSkin with the code hidden at https://www.oneskin.co/hidden About Hidden True Crime What started as a simple conversation at their dinner table became a captivating podcast. Join the dynamic duo of Dr. John Matthias, a criminal psychologist, and Lauren Matthias, an investigative journalist, as they delve into the psychological facets of unthinkable crimes every week. Their unique perspectives and in-depth analysis offer a fresh take on true crime storytelling. Thank you for your support through sponsorships, subscribing, listening, and becoming a Patreon member at⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Patreon.com/HiddenTrueCrime⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Cash account offered by Wealthfront brokerage LLC member FINRA SIPC, not a bank. Instant withdrawal subject to conditions, fees, and eligibility requirements may apply to certain checking features of the cash account. Okay, we need to talk about this Dugger update because there's a lot. here. New jail calls have now been released between Kendra and Joseph Dugger. And from what we're seeing, they are talking a lot, like a lot, a lot. And I have to tell you, listening to the clips that have been released so far, what stood out to me most was not just the frequency of the calls, it was the tone, the Bible talk, the softness, the way the conversation feels almost strangely surface level, considering the gravity of the allegations and charges surrounding this family

right now. And then on top of that, there's the Michelle Dugger video with the paparazzi that's now going viral. And I'll just say this up front. I think I came away from that video a little differently than the rest of the internet did. And when we get to that Michelle moment, I'll tell you right now, my reaction, I do think there may be more breaking beneath the surface than people realize. My name is Lauren Matthias, and this is hidden true crime. Before we dive into those jail calls, and I have a lot to say about those calls. I want to take a quick step back because the Florida situation really is the catalyst

for everything we're seeing right now. As we covered, Joseph is facing charges in Florida tied to the alleged sexual abuse of a nine-year-old girl during a family vacation in Panama City Beach back in 2020. Those charges include lewd and lascivious molestation of a victim under 12 years old

and lewd and lascivious behavior by a person over 18. And what stands out here is this wasn't a random encounter. Based on reporting, Joseph Dugger had repeated contact with this child, which suggests this was someone the family knew, someone in their circle. That allegation is what triggered everything. It's what led authorities to start looking deeper into Joseph and Kendra's lives and ultimately what led to the search of their home in Arkansas. And during that search, investigators allegedly found locks on the outside, the outside of the children's bedroom doors, which then led to both Joseph and Kendra being charged with four counts of endangering the welfare of a minor in the second degree and four counts

of fault imprisonment in the second degree. So with that context in mind, let's take a look into what's happening now behind the scenes because this is where things take another turn. Joseph and Kendra have reportedly been in constant communication. According to People Magazine and page six, they've obtained audio clips and call logs showing the two are speaking twice a day every single day for around 20 minutes each time. People Magazine obtained the audio clips and page six obtained the call logs. So let's take a listen to some of those clips that have now been released, the ones that have been released so far. How are you?

A lot of time for you in and travel in here. Yeah, really. Yeah, let's hear from you. Did you hear that I'm out here with, do you hear where I'm at and everything? I don't know. Should we say it? I think that'll, well, I don't know.

Maybe not. But they've got me a good place to stay. it's very private oh praise the lord i'm happy so yeah i'm not taking so you're doing okay i'm i'm trying to keep my spirits up and i feel like reading oh that's good to hear this one that i got it's like a some other nlc version or something like that but it's uh the couple is clearly being careful understandably as they realize their calls are being recorded and could likely be released like right now and at the same time it's not making them shy away from talking daily multiple times a day. And at this point, Kendra is reportedly the only person Joseph is speaking to

outside of his attorney, or at least Kendra's phone number, right? It's the only one that's being used. And this is where I want to slow down for a second because this part feels important. In our coverage, we've talked about the possibility that the alleged victim in Florida may actually be someone from Kendra's own family. People online have been trying to piece together who was on that Panama City Beach trip. one theory is that the Caldwell's, Kendra's family, they were there, which would mean it's possible that Kendra's own father reported this since charging dock state Joseph confessed to the victim's father and he, the father, made the report. Now, I want to be really clear here. That is speculation. We don't know that for a fact. It could be another child, another family. We just don't know.

But what we do know is that this wasn't random. There was repeated contact. This was someone they knew, someone close to them. And I think that's part of what makes Kendra's response so complicated and honestly hard for a lot of us to understand. Because if you look at this at face value, most people would say that's the line. If your husband admitted to something like this, whether it's a family member or a friend's child or anyone, that's where you step back. That's where you protect your kids. That's where things change, right? Maybe, I mean, Maybe I'm naive, but I would think that most people, if their husband admitted to sexually assaulting a nine-year-old child, that would be it. That would be the moment where you cut contact, where you file for divorce, where you protect your kids at all costs, not call your husband daily to talk about the Bible.

But I also think that it is worth acknowledging that situations like this are rarely that simple. there's a lot of conditioning here and a belief system that complicates things. We've talked about the environment, Kendra was raised in, the Dugger adjacent culture, the IBLP teachings, things like strict control, blanket training. Those aren't fringe ideas in that circle. And you can learn about this in our episodes on this case. Our playlist is linked in comments, as always, and in the description of this episode. So yes, it does seem like Kendra looks to be involved in what's happening inside their home.

with the locks on the children's doors. But many of you keep pointing out that this type of practice, it's not uncommon in the dougar circles. And it's possible that some of what we're seeing, especially when it comes to the home environment, was influenced by that system. And I think that context matters here in understanding what could possibly be the dynamics

in this relationship between Kendra and Joseph. But there's another piece of this that stood out to me, listening to those calls. Joseph is talking about the Bible and the calls. reading on it, leaning on it, or comfort while he's in jail. And I want to be careful how I say this because faith for a lot of people is a real source of strength. But hearing that, in this context, it feels jarring. Because at least in the clips that have been released so far, there's no real acknowledgement of the gravity of the allegations. There's no direct engagement with what's actually

being accused here. Now, of course, we don't have everything. These are short clips. It's very possible. There are conversations we haven't heard yet. But what has been released feels very surface level, almost like default language. And I don't know, it left me with more questions and answers. Because look, you zoom out, you look at the big picture here, this emphasis on obedience, authority, staying in line, saying the right things. That's something that we've talked about before. with this family and that broader belief system. And I do wonder if in moments like this, when something deeply serious and complicated is happening, does that kind of conditioning make it harder to actually confront what's real? To sit in the discomfort, to ask harder questions, to break from that script,

the script of just simply reading the Bible for comfort, rather than confront the elephant in the room? I don't have a clear answer to that, but it's something that stood out to me. Hopefully, Dr. John has more answers than me. His episode is on its way. So hit subscribe and notifications. But back to what really matters, there's also a really clear starting point here. None of this unfolds without that initial allegation in Florida. That's what triggered the investigation.

That's what led to the search. That's what led to the charges. And ultimately, that's what led to Kendra being separated from her children right now. Yeah, she still looks to be separated from her children according to public documents. We don't know. We'll get into that later. But it looks like she is. So when people listen to these calls and hear her tone, hear the softness, the sympathy, the Bible talk, the keep sweet voice so similar to her mother-in-law, while charges of harming a child are the reasons this family is in the position.

they are in, one, and they just chat about the Bible, I think that's why it's hitting people the way it is, because it doesn't sound like distance. It sounds like connection between a husband and why. And I think a lot of us are trying to make sense of that. But no matter the system they were raised in, here's the reality. None of this would have happened if Joseph had not allegedly sexually assaulted a little girl in Florida. And I think part of why the system, this is hitting so many of us the way it is, is because we've seen something like this before. With Josh Dugger, Joseph's older brother, and with Josh Dugger's wife, Anna Dugger. After everything came out about Joseph's older brother, Josh Dugger, after the allegations of

abuse, abuse of young girls, after the CSAM charges, the conviction, everything that followed, Anna Dugger stayed. She stood by Josh Dugger. And to this day, Anna Dugger still is standing by Josh. She was seen wearing a wedding ring just last month. And for a lot of people watching this now, that history is very hard to ignore here because it raises this question of, are we watching the same pattern play out again? We've talked before about why one skin really stands out as a skincare company, not as hype or just pretty packaging, it's real science. And we love science here at Hidden 2

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slash hidden. That's 15% off at one skin. com with code hidden. And after you purchase, they will ask where you heard about them. Please support our show and let them know that we set you. Now, to be fair, Kendra has always seemed a little different. She did not appear quite as deeply embedded in the Dugger family structure. There were reports that she was more comfortable.

having her own parents watch her children, that she leaned on her side of the family more. So I think there was a sort of hope that if something like that this ever happened, Kendra might respond differently. More so there was this hope that nothing like this would ever happen again, right? But here we are, rinse and repeat, dug her deja vu, and we're wondering what happens next. I think we're all holding our breaths, hoping that that she might step away, that she might create distance, do something to break this pattern, rip this system to shreds, finally, right? But now we've got call logs from page six and a sing-songy voice giving us Anna Dugger vibes all

over again, plus another major element to consider. If the theory is true that someone from Kendra's own family may have been the one to report her husband, Joseph, that puts Kendra in an even more complicated position. Because on one hand, if you're Kendra's father, which means, and you have multiple children to protect, you report it. You're the victim's father. You have to. You must protect your child. But on the other hand, from Kendra's perspective, do you think she could feel like a child? frail maybe from her dad? I don't know. I don't know what's in Kendra's mind. But if that's how

she's processing it, it could actually push her further away from her own family and closer to the Duggers, despite as hearing that she was actually trusting her family more than the Duggers prior to their arrest and charges. And I think that's where a lot of the concern is coming from. And what happens next? Does Kendra become more isolated? Does she lose the people in her life who might challenge this or help her see things differently. Will she have people in her life who challenge this and encourage her to see these charges against her husband as a deal breaker? See these charges for what they are? Does she end up in a position where staying feels like the only option or will those around her help her see other options and a way out of this marriage?

And again, I don't know. But when you listen to those calls, at least those squads, clips of the calls that have been released. And you hear how often they're talking, the tone, the consistency. It doesn't sound like someone creating distance. And I think that's why so many of us are uneasy, because it starts to feel like we might be watching that same cycle in that same family with just a different names. Let's start with Jay. So let's take a closer look at the timeline of these calls and the call log released because I think this is where it starts to really sink in just how often Kendra and Joseph are talking. So on March 19th, the day after Joseph was arrested, he calls Kendra. She doesn't answer. He also tries to call a management consultant that same day.

And that call also goes unanswered. Then the very next day, March 20th, that's when Kendra is arrested. And after she's been booked and released, they connect. That call, when they finally connect, lasts about eight minutes. So already, you start to see contact happening pretty quickly. Then March 21st and 22nd, he calls again. Both of those calls go longer, around 21 minutes each. By March 23rd, there are two calls in one day. One is about 20 minutes. The other is shorter, around nine minutes. And then from March 24th through the 26th, this becomes a pattern, a full blown pattern. They are talking twice a day, every day. And each call is right around 20 minutes. So when you step back and you look at this as a whole, this is not occasional contact.

This isn't some help me put some money on my books. This is consistent. ongoing, structured even. It's a pattern. And I think, again, this is what we're all reacting to, because if he has reportedly admitted to inappropriate contact with a child, and he has, so why is there still this level of connection? And again, we don't know everything being said in these calls. We're only hearing small portions. I also want to point out that since the calls haven't all been released. While the logs are between Josh and Kendra, could it be, though, that an attorney is with Kendra

or someone else could be talking to Joseph despite it being Kendra's number. Kendra could be adding an attorney onto the calls, which would make sense why they would not be released, right, due to an attorney-client privilege. We don't know as a fact that these calls are with Kendra and only Kendra. We simply know it's Kendra's phone number.

Kendra could be including someone else. This is a large family, and it could be that they don't want their numerous numbers released on call logs, like what just happened. And they could be being plugged in through Kendra. I don't know. But I do want to keep that potential possibility open as well, since we've received all the call logs, just not the calls. But just looking at the frequency alone, it is enough to make. people pause. At the same time, all of these calls are happening, Joseph was being held in Arkansas waiting for extradition to Florida. And during that same window, investigators searched the home,

which is when these locks on the children's bedroom doors are discovered, that discovery leads to the additional charges against both Joseph and Kendra, multiple counts of endangering the welfare of a minor and false imprisonment. Kendra's arraignment is currently scheduled for April 29, And according to her release conditions, she is not allowed to have any contact with the victims. No phone calls, no text, no in-person contact, not even through a third party. And if those victims are her children, well then, she then is not with her children. And the documents make it clear, violating those conditions could result in her being taken back into custody, violating these conditions, could result in her arrest, a bond revocation, and being held in jail until trial. Now, as of yesterday, Friday, March 27th, Joseph is officially no longer listed in the Washington County jail system, which suggests he is likely being transferred and is in the process of being extradited to Florida. So again, things are moving, and it does feel like we're at a bit of a

turning point in this case with Joseph no longer being listed on the jail's website in Washington County. So now, let's change lanes here and talk about how the Dugger family itself is responding to these charges, because this is where you start to see some separation within the family. First, I want to show you this clip from Amy Dugger King's TikTok. Based on her experience inside that family, and Amy is the cousin of the Dugger's, a well-known cousin. And with her experience inside this family, she shares what she believes might be happening behind the scenes, specifically how Jim Bob Dugger could be handling all of this. And I think it's important. We take a listen to this.

I would almost take bets, y'all, that my uncle called a family meeting the second this all came out. or he texted on a big family group chat, which I used to be a part of, anyways, and said, all right, I'm so sorry that we're going through this again as a family. What's most important is that we band together and that we show family loyalty and that we love each other no matter what. Right now, we need to just be closer than ever, including our social media. Now, post about your life, post about recipes, post about your kids, post about whatever. But just don't mention, don't mention Joseph because, you know, it's not that big of a deal.

And we're being attacked as Christians. And that's a really, really, really sad world we live in where they would want to attack, you know, such a godly Christian family. And just don't post it. don't talk to anyone. You know, if they've got an interview, send it to me. I'll take care of it. My people will take care of it.

And just keep on posting whatever it is that you'd like and just don't add anything extra to it. Okay, it's all going to be taken care of. Let's let this just blow over. So Amy believes that Jim Bob likely told a family that they need to stick together. and if what Amy is saying is accurate, it's a familiar message. Stick together.

Stay quiet. Present a united front. But what's interesting is that doesn't seem to be what's actually happening. You know, when you have 19 kids, not all of them might stick together. And if it's true, that's what they were told to do. The Dugger kids are not following Dugger Patriarch Jim Bob's instructions. Hmm. Interesting.

Because several of the Dugger's. Dugger siblings have now come forward with statements, and they're not subtle. And I think we should commend them for that, because regardless of family ties, this type of behavior needs to be denounced. And based on these recent statements made by some of the Dugger children, that's what they're doing. Regardless of family ties, there should be a line. And some of them do seem to be drawing one. Jason Dugger and his wife, Maddie, released a statement, and this is probably, one of the strongest responses we've seen so far. I'll read it in full. Quote, we like many, have spent the week completely shocked, confused, and grieved. To list a few emotions,

we are disgusted to hear the news about my brother. However, this isn't about how it's impacted our lives. Our hearts are burdened because a child's life has been turned upside down due to evil actions of someone who should have never hurt the vulnerable. This is something unthinkable. We have and we are angered by what has happened, and we pray God's righteous hand, and the court system will serve justice in this situation as deserved. Maddie and I have always had a special place in our hearts for the vulnerable around us, and we will continue to do so. To fathom that someone would abuse their authority to harass the innocent is vile. We ask that you pray for the victim, who has been brave enough to share what has happened. We also ask that you pray for his family at this time as his children.

children must face the reality of losing a father that should have been a spiritual leader in their lives. We stand with innocent children always, end quote. Before I switched to Wellfront, my APY was probably 0.1. Once I switched to Ching, with the Wellfront cash account, earn up to 4.2% APY on your cash. I can trust. Wellfront is taking care of me. Make your money earn more. Get started at Wealthfront.com. Clients were paid $1,000 for their testimonials creating a conflict of interest. Howcomes vary.

3.3%. Base API as of January 30 at 20. 26 is representative variable and earned on funds swept to program banks. 0.65% new client boost for three months on up to $150,000. direct deposit $1,000 a month and fund an investing account for a 0.25% increase. Cash account offered by Wealthfront brokerage LLC member FINRA SIPC, not a bank. And then Joy Anna Dugger shared her own statement. And she said that essentially she's been a wreck this week, that she's heartbroken, and that she's taking time to process.

This stood out to me, too, because it felt, human. She's a wreck. This is not a polished person here. This is not scripted. Just someone reacting to something really difficult, right? This is what Joy Anna said. Quote, what has come out about my brother is heartbreaking and deeply disturbing. My heart is with the victim and I am grieved by the pain and harm caused. I have been a wreck this week and am taking time to process. I have a few pre-film commitments that I have to post, but I will be taking some much-needed time with my family. Thank you for your prayers, end quote. And I also want to play a clip from Ginger Dugger and her husband Jeremy's podcast where they talk about Joseph's arrest.

Welcome back to another episode of the Ginger and Jeremy podcast. This episode is going to be a little bit different in light of recent news regarding Ginger's brother, my brother-in-law, Joe Dugger. Recently, Joe Dugger was arrested on the charges of abusing a minor. And there were some other legal issues brought against Joe and his wife that we were made aware of, and it's been devastating to hear. We wanted to share a few things that were on our heart while also taking a bit of space this week, as it's been a really difficult week for us to process and think through and pray

through this with the podcast. We're so grateful for all of you and the support you've shown, the prayers you've extended and are extending. But we really wanted to just take a moment to let you know how we're processing this. This was devastating news to hear when we got the news last week. And it's been a really difficult week of trying to process this, a week of us crying out to the Lord, asking for mercy and grace for those affected. by this, but Ginge, how are you holding up?

Well, I just, I mean, it has been such a long week. It's been one of those weeks that feels like years. And I did not think that my heart could break like it has this week. The pain and

heartbreak that we've had over this and just thinking of how it's affected so many. Yeah, it's just unthinkable. It's so hard and painful and on many levels. Yeah, thinking about the victim who was brave enough to share her story

has been heartbreaking. Just the effect on that young person's life is unimaginable. And then to see the ripple effect of that horrific crime just across the board. It just has so many damaging, rippling effects. I think that's been, for me,

the forefront of my mind is just thinking the horror of a crime like that, affecting so many for so many years. It's just, it's devastating to think about. It's devastating. Obviously, where do we go from here?

We are praying for the victim. We're praying for all. of those affected asking that God's grace would be apparent and would show up even though on a human level it's hard to see where his grace would show up in a situation like this it's easy just to see the darkness but yeah it's just really left us in a place of asking the Lord to be kind to be merciful asking the Lord to expose truth that's been hidden praying for which wisdom for the officials who are going to in the months and years ahead seek to pursue earthly justice so that this doesn't happen to other people.

But then ultimately just resting in the promises of God and really finding ourselves in a place of going to the Lord and just asking him to be gracious and kind and merciful, to draw near to the brokenhearted. The children especially, you just think of how this affects their life, it's devastating. It's hard. I don't even have words. And, yeah, all we can do in those moments is just cry out to God

and ask him to sustain us to give help. Because it just, yeah, you can't be prepared for news like this, even though we've experienced something very similar before with one of my other siblings who made unthinkable choices and decisions that have affected all of us. And yet it, the pain and hurt that's caused to us, but then to so many others is just so hard. And so, yeah, it's hard to know, you know, what to do sometimes moving forward. You just feel the weight of it.

It's a tough situation. Yeah, it stuns you. You kind of feel like what now, you know? And yet life goes on. And so that's one of the difficult challenges is, you know, as we're praying for, okay, how do we support those who are hurting? How do we support those who are vulnerable? How can we come alongside and seek to be Christ's hands and feet in the midst of

this. Yeah, we long to see God's grace evident in a situation like this, and that's what we're praying for. And so we're so grateful for your prayers as well in that. I think that's really where we are at this point, just feeling helpless, but knowing that the Lord hears our prayers in that. We are grateful for all of you, for your love, for your care, most importantly, for your prayers. And we will see you next week back on the the podcast. And even though sibling dynamics are obviously different from a marriage, I think a lot of people are still wondering what this looks like for Kendra. Because what we're seeing from the siblings is at the very least acknowledgement and in some cases clear condemnation. And I think

there's this hope, right? This hope that maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, but at some point that Kendra reaches that place too. Because in situations like this, in apology, does not fix it. Forgiveness does not fix this. It doesn't undo harm. It doesn't protect children going forward. And finally, I want to talk about a video that's been circulating online because this one has really caught people's attention. It shows Michelle Dugger in a way that I think a lot of us have never seen before. In fact, when it first started going around, some people, including me, I wondered if it was AI because it feels so different from the version of Michelle that we're used to seeing. In the clip, she approaches a car where a man says he's with

the press. He's allegedly paparazzi. And Michelle is filming him. But let's remember, he's also filming her. And he's filming the home that she came out of him. So you can actually see he's recording her from the moment she starts walking toward him so it makes sense to me that if she's going to approach him that she would turn on her camera too and i'll be honest though i had a slightly different reaction to this than what i've been seeing online but take a look and then i will share some of my thoughts can you do can you do an interview can you do an interview you cannot be here is this private property on the road okay the road is property?

You have no business being here. Okay. You are interfering with children. No, I'm not messing with the children. This has nothing, this has nothing to do. This has nothing to do with the children. This is your, you guys are being investigated for the children. I'm here for press.

I'm here for press, Mom. Mom, I'm here for press. Can I ask you some questions? You will not. You will have to talk to someone else. Can I ask you any questions, Mom? Any questions, Mom? Any questions?

Can we talk to your daughter? Can we talk to your daughter? Please don't stand back there. I don't want to reverse and hit you. Miss, we literally are just doing- Interfering with children. I'm not interfering with any children. There are children out there.

Shame on you. We came to just interview your daughter who was just recently arrested. You are not. We just came to interview your daughter who was recently arrested. Yes, we did. Okay, leave right now, please. Thank you, ma'am, we'll leave. I just want.

wanted you to know that's what we're doing. So while Michelle's behavior is unusual, and I still don't fully understand what her goal was in approaching him, especially if that is indeed a public road, she's also not the first public figure to feel distressed by paparazzi showing up outside of home. And I didn't love either how the reporter handled it. I didn't. He is clearly trying to bait her into talking by getting facts wrong about her family,

you know, her daughter versus daughter-in-law. But it really rubbed me the wrong way when he repeatedly calls her mom, mom, mom, in a way that, at least to me, it feels dismissive, but actually, even more than that, it feels condescending. And I think it's fair to say two things can be true at once. It can feel like an invasion of privacy to have media filming outside a home. And it can also be true that Michelle inserting herself into that situation raises a lot of questions and eyebrows. But what really stood out to me wasn't just what she said. It was how she said it. Because yes, her tone is more intense than what we're used to. She's clearly upset. There's tension there. But at the same time, she's still holding onto that like very controlled

almost sing-song delivery even while she's under stress. She's not yelling. She's not fully breaking. And I found that really interesting because we've talked so much about this idea of keeping sweet, about emotional control, about not showing anger, especially for women in this environment. And watching this, it almost felt like those two things were happening at the same time. Like her voice was trying to stay in that controlled space, but her eyes were telling a completely different story. Her eyes look anxious, on edge, even angry. I saw anger. And that disconnect really stuck with me. Because part of me thought, what would it look like if Michelle actually did allow herself to be angry? Honestly, I kind of wanted to see it. I actually wanted her to yell. I wanted to see Michelle Dugger stand up for herself and quit the keep sweet act. I wanted her to push back. Even something as simple as correcting him and saying, you know, I'm not mom. I have a name. Setting a boundary, showing frustration, because we talk so much about how harmful that keep sweet expectation can be. And we have been critical of this culture of

silence, especially with women. So when we see even a hint of anger, it raises sort of this interesting question, do we actually want to see that change, even if it's messy, even if it's uncomfortable, do we want to see Michelle Dugger get angry? Do we support that? Yet, at the same time, if there is anger there, if something is breaking through with Michelle, I also think a lot of us would want to see that anger directed somewhere else, not at the paparazzi, but at what's happening within her own family, because there's still a very real disconnect here. In the video, she says, I'm protecting children, telling the paparazzi he's interfering with children. Well, at the same time, there are court documents that restrict Kendra Dugger from having contact with the victims,

which many believe include her own children. And we're talking about a family where serious allegations have now surfaced more than once about harm involving children. That's why the media is there in the first place. But I do think it's okay to sit in the nuance of this moment to say, that interaction with the reporter fell off. Michelle seemed distressed. There may be more going on emotionally beneath the surface. I am actually wondering if she is breaking inside,

is something is stirring inside Michelle Dugger and that the paparazzi was the scapegoat. She is angry. Michelle Dugger is angry. And yet she is trying to keep sweet and maybe direct it somewhere that isn't her family and isn't the system that she is in. I think what we're seeing is Michelle Dugger in a position. She is having difficulty navigating and her shelf might just be breaking.

I wonder if it ever will break. I don't know. But if I ever see Michelle Dugger yell, I'll support it. Anger comes before the break. But tell me what you think. there are a lot of opinions on the video with Michelle Ducker. Lastly, there's a growing theory online that the location where this video was filmed isn't just some random property. People believe this could be the same private residence where Kendra has been stained since her release, a safe house of sorts.

Because we now know Kendra did not return to her own home. She told Joseph during a jail call that she had been taken somewhere private. Did you hear that I'm out here with, you hear where I'm at and everything? I think, I think that'll, well, I don't know, maybe not. But they've got me a good place to stay. That's very private. Oh, praise the Lord. So people are connecting the dots here.

You have Michelle aggressively guarding a property saying she's protecting children. You have Kendra saying she's staying in a private home. And you have legal documents saying she cannot be around her. her own children. That combination is what's getting people's attention. And now that Joseph is being extradited to Florida and is likely in transit, as we're even talking about this, this could be a turning point. That distance might finally give Kendra the space to gain clarity, focus on what's going on at home, and make whatever changes need to be made to make sure her kids are in a safer environment and ultimately to separate herself not just from Joseph, but from the influence and

control of the Duggers and the system of control. So as always, I'll keep bringing you updates as they come. Hit subscribe, hit notifications, because clearly this is still unfolding. And it does feel like we may be a bit, there may be a bit of a turning point here, I guess I should say. But I want to hear from you. What do you make of those calls? What do you make? of Kendra's response. And what did you see in that moment with Michelle? Because I think there is a lot here that isn't simple and probably won't be. And I'm really curious how you're all processing it. Let me know your thoughts because I know there's a lot to unpack here. Before I switched to Wealthfront, my APY was probably 0.1. Once I switched to Cheching.

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