Hidden True Crime - Lori Daybell Trial Lunch Live | Jury Selection Day One - Phoenix

Episode Date: March 31, 2025

About Hidden True Crime: What started as a simple conversation at their dinner table became a captivating podcast. Join the dynamic duo of Dr. John Matthias, a criminal psychologist, and Lauren Matthias, an investigative journalist, as they delve into the psychological facets of unthinkable crimes every week. Their unique perspectives and in-depth analysis offer a fresh take on true crime storytelling. Thank you for your support through sponsorships, subscribing, listening, and becoming a Patreon member at Patreon.com/HiddenTrueCrime Read less Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Okay, so day one of jury selection for the Lori Daybell trial. We call her Lori Daybell now, the defendant formerly known as Lori Valo. Now Lori Daybell, I am in Phoenix, Arizona. This is trial number two for the doomsday mother. And I am here in Phoenix. In fact, let me show you guys. See, outside the Maricopa County Courthouse. I was inside the courtroom for jury selection.

What's going on right now is there are no jurors in the courtroom. The jurors right now have filled out questionnaires. They send out 200 juror questionnaires, 163 questionnaires came back. And they went through all of them today. It was actually pretty easy, pretty smooth. A lot of the state and the defense agreeing. And let me just tell you a couple numbers, but we have been taking really good notes in there,

and I'm going to have everything for you later to. right after court. So go hit subscribe, hit notifications because this is going to be your trial central, your trial headquarters. And I'm going to be doing lunch lives every day. I am going to be going live right after trial every day. And I'm going to be doing weekly recaps. And I'm in there taking some good notes. I will tell you this though, before anything else. And you guys are probably all wanting to know what she's looking like and how she's doing. We'll get to that in just a second. But the statistics. The sticks are interesting.

They're a little bit more interesting than the last time. They're a little bit more different. So 163 questionnaires returned. They've stuck with 52. So 52 have made it past that we're going to then. They're going to come in in the next days and actually go in front of Lori Vallow, DeBell. Lori DeBell, I've got to get used to that.

Lori Daybell. And they're going to go in front of the state and Judge Boreski. But out of those 52, so out of those 163, 72 of those, 72 of those knew about the case, knew about Lori Valadebo, had heard things. That's a lot more than it was for her first trial. That's what I was going to say. In Idaho, in Idaho, it was not that many knew. And maybe it was because it was in Boise, right?

like Phoenix, we're here in, this is where Charles Vallow was murdered. This is the trial for Charles Valle's murder, murder, and this is exactly where it happened. Whereas in Boise, I don't know if that plays into this. In Boise, that was about five hours from where the children and Tammy Debel were murdered. You know, they moved it. I'm actually kind of surprised. A lot of you are always surprised how few people know about it, but I would say I'm personally surprised how many are really aware of this case and how many had to be dismissed because of their previous

knowledge of this case. And they didn't dismiss everyone with previous knowledge. They just dismissed a few people. Lori Vallow, by the way, had a pep in her step. She walked in in street clothes. I didn't know if she'd be in street clothes today. I didn't know if she'd be in street clothes until jurors actually came into the courtroom and that's tomorrow. But she is in street clothes. She is in a black suit. She has highlights in her hair. She came with a pep in her step. She clearly does not have shackles on. I have heard that she has like a little something on her knee that will keep her from running. I don't know if that's true or not, but that that's interesting. And then we have heard that she has a shock belt on. I'll try to find out more. But she definitely came in with a

pep in her step. She has makeup on. Like I said, her hair is highlighted. It's curled. It looks like some natural curl or some curl from braids and she has been saying yes your honor and answering and being very agreeable today so i want to get somebody in here is her is his mic unmuted we're doing these new mics you guys don't have to tell me how you like the new microphones for my phone by the way is this better is this not this is this you guys are guinea pigs day one so look who it is guys do you recognize this guy if you don't recognize this guy I'll tell you who he is. This is Tom Evans. Tom was a juror for the Lori Valo-Dabell trial. Lori-Vallo-Dabell. How did you guys know it? That's how I say it.

Lori-Vallo-Daybell or Lori-Vallow? Lorry-Vallow. Lori-Vallad-Bel. So for trial number one, you are a juror. Juror number 18. We have interviewed Tom over on our YouTube channel over on it. We are on it on our YouTube channel. You can go find that. And he has written multiple books now what's your latest book two books Chad Daybell the one might in strong is book two is book two and that is out it's available now in Amazon just came out yesterday I guess today today so first off I want to find out why you've decided to come to this in Phoenix you guys are in there in

Idaho but also I actually just want to know you were one of the jurors for the Lori Valade Abel trial two years ago and you did not know about this case. And I sat through, I sat through jury selection in Idaho, and I didn't feel like that many people did know about the case. What are your thoughts? Well, first off, are you surprised at how many people sort of know about this case here? Or not really. I mean, it's been pretty well known. It's been all over the place. Yeah. Well, then why didn't you know about it? Honestly, I'm not a true crime guy. Okay. And I really didn't pay a lot of attention. I purposely kind of put it away aside when I would hear about it,

just because it was such a horrible story. So the not true crime guy is now an author of two true crime books? It doesn't seem to make sense, but I'm really not a true crime guy. But you're a, this case. This case, I'm all in, yeah. I do something, guys. People always say they're not into true crime, and then I find out they are.

When you're into this case, you're into true crime. There's always a case. There's always a reason. People won't admit it, but there's always an intrigue there. And this is no different. I would say that you are now intrigued by some true crime, by certain aspects. When I think about it, it's been two years exactly since I got called into jury duty for that trial. Wow. So two years of my life has been. I finished the Chad Daybell book just a few days ago. And for the first time, I've had a couple of days to refurb. on the past two years and why I'm doing what I'm doing and the whole thing.

And I'm only now, I think, starting to come to terms with my feelings about it all. Okay. First time I've actually had time to just think it out. Really? Is that where you're here? I mean, maybe that's a good segue. I do want to know, like, why are you here? I feel like the first two books don't really answer the big question for me.

And the big question for me is how? How was somebody able to get to a point where they felt like it was their responsibility? Or they had the ability to take lives. And so I'm here to, I think the third book is going to finally answer that question. That's what I'm hoping. At least it's going to answer it for me. Hopefully it'll answer it for my readers. I'm finding that I have to go all the way back like 200 years

to answer that question and I don't think I really realized that in the beginning. I think I had a little bit of an idea of it, but didn't fully realize it. Now I do. So the third book is going to kind of start over from 200 years ago and come all the way to where we are now. Okay. And you've said you're finally coming to turns with some things. Any specific insights? Just personally. I'm finally coming to terms with how much of an effect it had on me and and starting to deal with some of those feelings, I guess. I remember the court offering us counseling when it was over, and that's just not who I am. You know, I'll be fine, but I'm just realizing now that actually,

I was really shut down. I think when we first met in the first several interviews that I did, I looked back at the answers that I gave, and I wasn't really all there, I feel like. Now I feel like I'm kind of more able to, deal with all of that. That makes sense. Well, I'll tell you, you know, as someone who likes to write, and I'm a writer, and I've written a book, a memoir, one reason I think we write certain books is when we're trying to process things. Like, I think there's a really, like,

and now you're on book number three, so I would suggest that there's something there that you are trying to process. That was part of it for me, I think. I wouldn't say it was the main reason. I thought a lot, like between the time the trial ended and then I met you at the sentencing, that was a couple months, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I thought a lot about whether I should do this or not, going back and forth between, you know, what, the high ground for a juror would be to just to move on, not make it about myself or whatever. But I came to realize that actually the high ground for me would be to take whatever criticism

I might get as a juror for writing a book and try to bring something into this story. try to answer some questions. And that became more important to me because I think there's a lot more to all this. Chad and Lori aren't the only people who have these dangerous beliefs. Other people are in danger. Other children are in danger.

And I think we need to have a conversation about that. Yep. So I decided that that was going to be my high ground. Well said. Well said. And I want to remind people to your first book, 100% of you, the profits went to a nonprofit. but I was out there with you when you were able to give your first check to them. Tell us, remind us a little bit about that nonprofit.

That nonprofit is Hope House. All the proceeds from the first book have gone to and will continue to go to Hope House. And the second book, the proceeds are going to my grandkids education fund. That's awesome. Lauren, that was a big day for me when you came out and did that. You flew all the way into Boise and drove out there with us to do that. Yeah, I did. And I'm so thankful to you.

your gems for all the support. It's just been amazing. Wonderful support. Thank you. Thank you. In the pinned comment actually to this live after I'm done, I'll share that video of Tom donating to the Hope House. It was a really touching thing and I was honored you invited me. So thank you. Thank you for all you've done for this case and for children and even your grandchildren. I love that, your your grandkids education fund. Like I said, look, it wasn't interesting. juror day. I'll have the latest for all of you guys later tonight. And I also want to say that after lunch is going to be really interesting. So we concluded questionnaires, right? So we could technically go home, but no, no, no, no, we're going to hear a motion. Nate Eaton is in there.

Justin Lund's in there. Some really nice reporters are in there. The courtroom is mostly full of reporters. And Megan Connor, Lori Vallow's, Lori Vallow, DeBow's cousin is in the courtroom. only family in there today. And you know, we're gonna hear, so Nate Eaton has been, Lori Val has requested Nate Eaton as a, Lori Deabel, guys, this isn't gonna be tough. It's like, you know, trying to like call Prince,

not Prince anymore, or is simple. Lori Dayball. Lori Daybell is gonna be in there and it's gonna be the motion about like, whether or not she can call Nate Eaton, a reporter from East Idaho News, a witness. It's gonna be good. I think. I was not expecting this on day one of jury selections.

It'll be more exciting than the first couple hours that we just sat through for sure. Hey, I thought the first couple hours were interesting. I have learned to really appreciate jury selection. It's fascinating. It's probably deja vu for you. Well, it is. When they actually bring them in and talk to them, I loved that last year. I mean, that was the most entertaining part of the other thing.

Yeah, you're going to be here tomorrow. You're going to see this from the other side. See the jurors being questioning. What are you going to be thinking? you're thinking you guys don't know what you guys have come in or what do you even think? Yeah, I feel for the jurors. They don't know what they have coming. And this one won't be quite as horrific, I guess, as the last one because it doesn't involve as closely JJ and Tiley. Right. They won't have to look at those pictures and all that kind of stuff. But still,

it's, you know, it's about murder and ruined lives. Yeah. And this case in particular, I can't, trial in particular, I can't, I just emphasize it. This is about a man who tried to get help, who sought help. This really actually also is a DV case, a domestic violence case, where the man is the victim, and he sought help. And people did not listen. And here we are. Here we are five years later, five and a half years later.

So, may Justice be Surfer Charles Vallow. We're going to be streaming the trial on Hidden True Crime 2. It'll be starting a half hour after the live. So we'll have like a we'll have it going, but it won't start for 30 minutes in. It's just it's everybody. That's what everybody has to do. It's the request of the court and then my lunch live might sort of overlap then with the last half hour before lunch. So we're still we're still going to figure that out. So I just want you guys to know we're going to still figure things out and decide how it goes if I need a wait for the last half hour of lunch to go live after the stream ends right away. I'll do that too. We're going to just do trial and error. And again, we have microphones this time, so let me know how it goes. I also, Megan, finish the bite. We're eating Chick-fil-A over here. Chick-fil-a's come. You starving? You start. And will you, anything else though really quickly, Tom, anything else you want to say? Yes. Yes. I cannot wait to have you and Dr. John read my book,

and I want a full critique. I would love to hear what you guys have to say about it. Don't ask me for a full critique. Had you guys in my head a lot of the things that I wrote about. Okay. Thank you. I look forward to reading it. No, I really enjoyed your first book. Thank you.

So I look forward to reading it. Thanks, Lauren. So wonderful. Thank you. And then your microphone, let me, I'm going to snag that off of you. And I'm going to, how are the microphones working, guys? You guys are going to have to let me know in comments. whether these microphones added a benefit.

I think you can just hold it. I just hold it like this. Yeah. Does that work? So here I am with Megan Connor. Megan, you're the only family in there today. It's mostly reporters, right? Is that what you saw? You saw, like I said, Nate, Justin.

We met Ashley and Brianna. Core TV is in there. A lot of local reporters. Did you see her? Did she see you? Yeah. She saw you? She saw me.

And? I think she probably recognized me like the third time that she looked at me. So I think she knows who I am, I think. Yeah, yeah. Well, you guys did live together when you were 19. You haven't changed much. I'm sure she recognized you. Yeah, I don't know.

It's weird because, I mean, I haven't seen her probably in 10 years in person. Right, there you go. You know, like I obviously seen her on TV and everything like that. But I have to say, I was a little bit, you know, there was a little bit of anxiety of like how she was going to react to seeing me. So I'm just glad to have that part of it over with. She knows I'm here now. Yeah, she knows you're here. And why are you here?

Can I ask why you decided to come? Yeah, I think of all of the proceedings that have gone on, this one is the most important to me personally. because in this proceeding we're going to find out how the rest of my family members acted in the days prior to Charles's death and in the days after Charles's death. And I think that's important to me because I'm so used to just absorbing family stories that are not necessarily true. And I think I've commented before that I've learned more truth about my family by reading FOIA documents than I have. by actually talking to my family members. So this feels important to me to look some family members in the eye so that they know that I'm here and so that they know that I have all the facts.

I can't really explain why that's important to me, but the truth has always been really important to me, just making sure the truth gets told. Thank you. Thank you for sharing that. And you have your own YouTube channel. You'll be doing so your own lunch lives, is that right? That's right, yeah. And tell us, tell us where they can find you.

Tell us where they can find you. I'm at third underscore verse. You can find me also at Midlife Revolution, the Midlife Revolution podcast. And most people find me by just searching Megan Connor on YouTube. So that's where I'm at. I'm on Twitter. I'm on Facebook.

I'm on Instagram. All the places. Well, thank you. I think we're all certainly curious what, you know, someone, family member of Lori Davis has to say. many people are actually asking to clarify, Megan is Lori's first cousin. They live together as teenagers. Actually, even were roommates for a time. Very close to the same age, Lori was also your bridesmaid at a wedding. So it's always interesting to hear, you know, what somebody has to say.

And do you think that your aunt Janice and your cousin's summer or others might come to this? They are in town. Well, I guess they're not in town. They moved, right? But do you think that they'll, you know, they didn't, let me clarify, for the first trial two years ago, Lori's family really didn't come unless they were testifying, which they had to at some point. So, but her, her mom or dad did not show up. Do you think you'll see other family members this time? I think it's possible. I know that they're, almost all of them are on Lori's witness list. So she has noticed Janice, Barry, Summer, Adam, neither one of the melodies are, are, on the list but I do think obviously I think they'll be here to testify if they have to be here to

testify it's I don't know whether they would come and just stay in the trial they they didn't last time Janice was here for one hearing so far and that's been that's been all that we've seen of her I don't really think of the Coxes as people who would be willing to be bold enough to come and show up in public to possibly be ridiculed or vilified or whatever so I don't I don't I I understand why they wouldn't want to be here, but I think they will come if they have to testify, obviously. Yeah, yeah, I'll be really curious. I think one thing that's going to be different, and thank you,

thank you, Megan. I'll take that. Actually, will you hand that? Yes. And then she can turn it off. I think one thing that's going to be really interesting about this trial, guys, is the evidence is really different. While clearly there is overlapping evidence,

I mean, call it a Venn diagram. The evidence that's really specific to Arizona does include a lot of, Lori DeBell's family, family of origin. What I mean is her sister, Summer Cox, Schifflett, and her mother, Janice Cox, and her dad, Barry Cox, and her brother, Adam Cox, he will be a huge witness. Charles Vallow had just flown Adam Cox out

for an intervention with Lori, while her, you know, and was Team Charles while Lori's other family members were Team Lori saying that Charles was cheating on her and maybe even trying to help her avoid this supposed intervention that Charles was making for her as he was trying to get help for his, his wife, who was calling him a zombie, because Ned Schneider was in his body. And he knew that. Can you imagine that? He knew he knew he was being called Ned. He knew he was being called a zombie.

And Charles, Charles tried to get help. Charles first went to police. Help me. My wife thinks she's married to Marona. She thinks I'm a zombie. She's threatening me. She says she's going to try to destroy me. What did the police say, oh, you're really, you know, get over it. You know, come on, be a man, step out. Like, it was crazy to watch them. Like, destroying doesn't mean death. So then what did he do? He goes to Melanie Gibb. Melanie Gibb, he cries to Melanie Gibb.

We know that because of Sherry Doddle. And my interview with Sherry Doddle. She tells us this. You can also watch that on our YouTube channel. And she says, yeah, Charles came to me. And he was crying. He's like, help me, help me. And she said, ah, I didn't know what to say.

Ha, ha, ha. While she's living in the house with Lori, you know, and she's even asked to leave that one night where Alex Cox, Her other brother, Alex, comes over, you know, to spend the night, the fatal night on July 10th, 2019, and Charles Vallow is dead the next morning. On July 11th, 2019, shot twice by Alex Cox, her brother, her protector, according to Lori. So then, though, before he's killed, he goes, he goes to Melanie Gibb. He goes to Lori's family. He goes to police.

What else does he do? He goes to his bishop. He goes to his bishop. He goes to his bishop. It's like, help me. Lori needs help. The bishop talks to police and says, oh, I don't think she's really going to destroy him. I don't think it's death. She's a little off a rocker, but they're fine. Everything's fine. I know all this is all on my mind because I was editing yesterday. I'm doing a complete backstory. Thank you so much in her space of everything that we have covered for the last five and a half years. I am doing a full backstory of this case. This is a case that is new to any of you.

because I realize that this is trial number two and a lot of people now wanna get invested because we have someone that's been diagnosed with delusional disorder that's gonna actually represent herself. Like that's wild. So we're gonna have the backstory up hopefully later tonight. I worked on it actually until two in the morning.

I'm 60 minutes in. I've been editing, I wrote the entire thing, it's 30 pages, I voiced it, I'm editing it. We're gonna have the backstory up for you very soon. In addition to that backstory, that's gonna help everyone get caught up, I'm going to continue these lunch lives. Like I said, we're going to also stream here on this channel, but the stream is delayed by 30 minutes for everyone across the board. So we're going to start it

when court starts and then it'll start 30 minutes late. That is going to like make us do some trial and air with lunch lives. Do I go live right when lunch starts overlapping with the streaming or do I wait a bit? We're going to figure this out together. We're in this together, right? We're going to decide what's best. I'm going to go live after court, and I'm going to be doing weekly recaps here on YouTube, as well as our podcast, Hidden True Crime. We are going to cover this to the very end.

May justice be served for Charles Vallow. He sought help. He tried to get help over and over and over again. And I do believe that if he had been able to help lives, have been saved. It's heartbreaking. It's heartbreaking. There are a lot of witness lists, and you know what I'm heartbroken for too? I'm heartbroken that these surviving victims, these survivors, if you like to be called a victim, some people do, some people like survivors, surviving victims, surviving survivors that are here that have been, you know,

lives completely torn apart because of Lori Daybell's actions, the defendant's actions. will now be questioning them on the witness stand. Can you imagine that? Can you imagine the person that has done the worst thing to you in your life, them being able, standing up there, looking you in the eye and questioning you? I can't imagine how Colby might be feeling or how Kay Woodcock might be feeling right now thinking that she is going to have to face the murderer of her grandson and the murder of her brother, Charles Vallow, as she questions her on the stand. This is wild. This is really wild.

So keep all of those that are having to testify in your hearts and minds this week. Yeah, that's the latest. That's the latest. I got to our Airbnb Saturday, and things are going well and set up, set up a little studio and we'll be bringing you the very latest and we'll be going back in to find out more about this motion with Nate Eaton. Yeah, it's going to be interesting after lunch. So again, hit subscribe, hit notification and I'll be sharing everything that is going on. We'll see you. Bye-bye.