Hidden True Crime - Lori Vallow Daybell UNMASKED | THE FULL STORY

Episode Date: April 4, 2025

Whether you are brand new to this case, or just need a quick refresher, join Lauren as she breaks down everything you need to know about this case, before opening statements. About Hidden True Crime: What started as a simple conversation at their dinner table became a captivating podcast. Join the dynamic duo of Dr. John Matthias, a criminal psychologist, and Lauren Matthias, an investigative journalist, as they delve into the psychological facets of unthinkable crimes every week. Their unique perspectives and in-depth analysis offer a fresh take on true crime storytelling. Thank you for your support through sponsorships, subscribing, listening, and becoming a Patreon member at Patreon.com/HiddenTrueCrime Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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And five years later, we are still talking. And if you are new to the case of Lori Vallow and Chad Dayball and the doomsday cult that ended in a murderous killing spree across states, you're in the right place. And we will take you through everything you need to know before Lori Vallow represents herself in court later this month. And I will be there at her trial in Arizona. taking you through it every step of the way. Consider this, your trial headquarters. At the time of this recording, it's March 2025, and Lori Vallow Daybell is in Arizona waiting

and preparing for her next murder trial. And yes, her next murder trial. You heard that right. You see, Lori has already been convicted of three other murders. The 2019 murders of her two young children in Idaho, 16-year-old Tiley Ryan and 7-year-old J.J. Valo, as well as a murder of 49-year-old Tammy Daybell. Tammy Daybell was the wife of Chad Daybell for nearly 30 years when she was discovered by her son Garth inside Chad and Tammy Daybell's Idaho home. According to the medical examiner at trial, Tammy died by asphyxiation. Two weeks after Tammy's death, Chad became Lori's fifth husband after they got married in Hawaii on November 5th, 2019. Juries found both Chad Daybell and Lori Vallow guilty of murdering or conspiring to murder all three victims, Tiley, JJ,

and Tammy. Lori has been sentenced to prison for life. She's serving three consecutive life sentences. And Chad Daybell, that fifth husband and the reason for Lori's new name, Lori Daybell, he has been sentenced to death. And if these three murders, Lori's two children, and Chad's wife Tammy aren't horrendous enough. They are not the only deaths that lie in the couple's wake. Lori has been charged with killing her fourth husband, Charles Vallow, in Arizona in 2019. That killing happened just weeks before the three murders in Idaho, and Charles' murder was really the beginning of what police call this murderous spree.

It started in Arizona with Charles, followed by a move to Idaho where the other murders occurred. And then, of course, there's Brandon Boudreau, Lori's ex-nephew-in-law. He is the one who got away. He survived a drive-by shooting outside his Gilbert Arizona home in late 2019. His Tesla window shattered by a bullet that missed his head by inches. So I know this is a lot, a lot of death and a lot of destruction between Chad Daybell and Lori Daybell. And we are going to go back to the very beginning and break this all down.

But before I begin, I do just want to explain that both Lori and Chad belonged to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints at the time of these murders. And it's also known as the Mormon or the LDS Church. And you are going to hear the varied nicknames of the church throughout this episode. Chad and Lori were committed to their religion. They were born into LDS families. They grew up going to church. They married fellow members. They raised their children in the faith.

And they were very much active participants in their individual congregations before meeting. But there was a lot happening before Lori and Chad even met. So let's go back to the beginning and we will start with Chad Guy DeBow. Chad was born in August, 1968. He is the oldest child of Jack and Sheila Daybow. He was raised in the small town of Springville, Utah. And while a conservative community and a religious family, Jack and Sheila gave their children actually a lot of freedom

to run around the neighborhood and they were never too sure where all five of their children were at any given time. Chad grew up enjoying sports and music and Jack and Sheila taught their children to work hard, putting an emphasis on schooling, at least for their sons. All four of Chad's younger brothers went on to get graduate degrees, but not Chad. In fact, Chad took the road less traveled in his family, and he actually lived a very humble life, especially compared to his brothers. He didn't date much in high school, and when he turned 19, he served a church mission in New Jersey for two years. He then came back to Utah, where he graduated college from the private church-owned Brigham Young University. As Chad was preparing to fill out an application for a master's degree program,

Chad heard a voice tell him that he would not need additional schooling to complete his life's mission, and he threw the application in the recycling bin. that was that. And hey, at least Chad recycled. That's about as likable as he's going to get throughout this entire story. Around the same time when Chad was 21 years old, just after his LDS mission, he met 19-year-old Tamara Douglas, or Tammy Douglas, a girl from his same hometown of Springville, Utah, who had attended the same high school. Well, there was only one high school in town. But since Tammy was a couple of years younger than Chad, they didn't really know each other yet. Chad essentially noticed Tammy's photo in his brother's high school yearbook and decided to figure out a way he could ask her out.

Once he pulled that off, they were engaged quickly afterwards and married quickly after that. It was fast, which was a common occurrence among those in the LDS faith back in 1990. and once they were married, they quickly started a family. Tommy gave birth to their first son Garth in 1993, and during this time, Chad worked as a small town cemetery sexton to make ends meet for the family. But the graveyard work, working in the cemetery, while it did help his family have health insurance

and gave his family the benefits they needed, Chad found more pride in his writing. And he found the time to think up books and stories and write during his time working in the cemetery. The opportunity came for me to take over as the cemetery sexton there, and I took that job in 1995, and as I worked there, suddenly the ideas came more, and I had an idea come for an entire trilogy. You had a little more dead time while you were there.

Exactly. It's amazing what you can think about when you're weed eating and digging graves. Chad's love of writing turned into him becoming an author, and his books were soon picked up and published. They involved frightening doomsday scenarios, and soon Chad Daybell became a well-known apocalyptic author within the LDS community, with several books portraying the last days through fictional characters and stories. Chad's books were published and shared in the Desert Book bookstore. It's a store that was owned by the LDS Church. And some of his books, though, they started causing some controversy pretty quickly,

especially after one of his characters in a book and this character is an angel. Well, this angel drop kicks another character. And this really isn't in line with LDS Church doctrine, angels beating people up. And so Deserta book actually stopped publishing Chad's books in 2003 for a time. And Chad Daybell upset that his church wasn't allowing him to share certain scenes that he felt were important. He decided that it was time to not just write, but to become his own publisher. He and his wife Tammy started Spring Creek Book Company in 2004, where he continued to publish his novels. But Chad also wanted to find other authors that he could help publish.

And he did find them. Small wholesaler of the Year Award in 2005 and 2006 at the LDS Book Sellers Convention. And soon we had about 30 authors and had some really big sellers, a lot of nonfiction. Take a listen to one of them. Somebody named Lauren Matias, podcast Hidden True Crime. No longer will I allow you or anyone else to control or manipulate me. I own my energy. I take back my power.

That was Julie Rowe, one of the authors Chad published and a name you really need to remember. Spring Creek published books about visionaries that had near-death experiences, and their most popular books were by Julie Rowe that you just heard from. As these books grew in popularity, Chad was beginning to be asked to speak and spend more time away from home promoting these religiously themed books full of visionary doom and destruction. While Chad and Tammy were from Utah and spent their first 25 years of marriage there surrounded by family and raising their kids in the town that they also spent their childhood. In the summer of 2015, Chad made an unexpected decision to move Tammy and their five children, their five children ranging from teenager to

young adult to Rexburg, Rexburg, Idaho, a small conservative East Idaho town where most of the population did share their same LDS faith. It's also the home to BYU, Idaho, a private church-owned university. And in Chad's autobiography, Chad explains that Tammy was not happy about him making the family move. But what Chad told Tammy was that he had a vision and that this is what God wanted. And Tammy wasn't visionary. He was. And she just needed to have faith and listen to him. Rexburg was a big change from life in the bustling bedroom community of Springville, and it was also four hours away from Tammy's family. But Chad's speaking circuit and visionary books were well received in their new community of Rexburg.

And now a little bit about Lori Valo DeBow. Lori was born Lori Noreen Cox. She was the fourth of six children born to her parents, Barry and Janice Cox. Her older sister, Loreley, had died as an infant, and Lori was born shortly after her parents' loss and was named after her deceased older sister. Lori's upbringing was a bit different than Chad's. Lori was a California girl. She had been a cheerleader in high school, was popular, blonde, beautiful, and well-liked. Similar to Chad, though, she grew up in an LDS family, but she seemed a bit more rebellious than Straight Arrow Chad.

describe Lori's first boyfriend, Nelson, as a bad influence on her. They say Lori started doing drugs in high school shortly after meeting Nelson, and by the time Lori had graduated from high school, she had run off and moved in with him. Her family did not approve. Nelson was not LDS, and Lori was just simply too young. After she left Nelson, Lori then moved in with her younger brother, Adam, and that is how she met her second husband, William Lagonia. Take a listen to to Lori's brother Adam talk about Lori's first two marriages with us during an interview in 2023. On high school, she ended up marrying a guy named Nelson who was known of doing drugs and he got Lori on drugs and Lori was doing drugs with him and they ended up getting married.

And my parents are like, you're not marrying him. She goes, too bad, I already did. And then put a straining reordering order on my parents. And then two weeks or three weeks or four weeks later, she came back to the house and apologized and got out of that marriage. And then ended up marrying another guy named Will who was Lori came to Austin, Texas. I was going a radio show there. And she said, can I live with you? And I said, sure. So she got a room.

I gave her one of my rooms in my apartment. Well, she worked at the Chess King at the Barton Creek Mall in Austin, Texas. And she met this guy, Will at the Chess King. next thing you know, she brings him home to my apartment. And I walk in and she's like, hey, this is Will. He's going to live with us. And I was like, what? This is my apartment. Not anymore. And then Will steps. I was like, don't worry about anything, man. I got, I'll get groceries. And I was like, oh my gosh. So I told that I told Laura, he's like, that's not going down. So they left. And the end of that story was Will used to abuse her and beat her up all the time.

I remember one time when she was pregnant with Colby, she called me crying because Will had beat her up and she was at a gas station at 2 o'clock in the morning. I came and picked her up. Lori had a child, her first child with William Lagonia, named Colby, which meant navigating life as a single mom once the divorce was finalized. So Lori started working long hours at a hair salon to make ends meet until one day a male client named Joe Ryan made an appointment with Lori to get his. hair done after seeing her photo in the salon where she worked. Where is Daredevil? A minor. Don't miss the return of Marvel Television's Daredevil born again.

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Joe told his family he loved the arm candy that Lori was, and he converted to Mormonism. When Joe became husband number three, Lori's son Colby took his last name, becoming Colby Ryan. The family settled in Austin, Texas, on three acres. And shortly after their 2001 wedding, in 2002, a blue-eyed baby girl with a blue-eyed baby girl with cherub cheeks named Tiley was born. And life looked perfect. Lori implied as much when she appeared on the Wheel of Fortune. Ladies and gentlemen, Pat Sejack and Vanna White.

Here they come. Thank you very much. Hello there. Hi, you're doing, Lori. I'm good. How are you? From Austin, Texas. A hairstylist in Austin.

That's right. The best. How's the hair in Austin? It's good. Good. Austin's a happening place. Probably thanks to you. Pretty much.

Talk about your family a little bit. I have a wonderful husband, Joseph, at home, who is watching our two beautiful children, Colby, who's seven, and Tiley, who is one. Yeah, what do you guys like to do for fun? We like to play all kinds of sports on our three acres. Okay, sounds like you have a nice life there. We do. Congratulations.

Nice to have you with us. But the marriage between Joe and Lori was beginning to crumble. Joe had serious rage issues, and physical abuse towards his steps on Colby was witnessed by others. Also, others have described Joe as a Jekyll and Hyde personality. Lori and Joe's divorce finalized in 2005, but not without a lengthy and ongoing custody battle over their daughter, Tiley. During this time, Joe was arrested for family violence after assaulting Lori in a courtroom cafeteria. And Lori's brother Alex was arrested and charged for attacking Joe with a taser.

Clearly, neither Joe or Lori made things easy during the custody battle with one ad litem suggesting foster care for Tiley, who was exhibiting anxiety and unexplained health issues at a very young age. One therapist who conducted an interview with Lori during this custody battle over Tiley noted Lori's possible personality disorder and extreme religious beliefs. It was certainly an eerie foreshadowing. And during this drawn-out custody battle, Charles Vallow, a southern gentleman from Louisiana enters the pitcher. Charles was a successful businessman, and since he had had two failed marriages himself, Lori's three failed marriages weren't a major red flag for Charles. Life happens, and so does divorce. Charles was a family man and also religious, and he became

Lori's fourth husband in 2006, a year after her divorce to Joe was finalized. And while Lori's previous three marriages had all led to divorce very marriage, had all led to divorce quickly. Her marriage to Charles was different. It seemed lasting. Finally, both Charles and Lori brought two children into their relationship and Lori was able to stay home and work fewer hours. And together, Lori and Charles decided to adopt their youngest and fifth child together, a special needs baby that was born to Charles's nephew. This baby boy was named JJ. Charles's sister, Kay Woodcock, had become JJ's guardian when he was an infant, just after JJ was born in Louisiana in 2012.

He was born May 25th, 2012 to my son and his girlfriend. He was born 10 weeks premature at 30 weeks. He was 2 pounds, 9 ounces at birth. He was in the hospital for six weeks. The social worker called. said that she was given our names and she asked if we would take them in. And of course, I said yes. And I did that without any input from Larry.

I went home. I went home before him and I called him and said, okay, you've got to come home. We got to talk. And so when he got there, I had a bottle of his favorite scotch sitting on the table with a glass with ice in it. I didn't know if she was kicking me out or, you know. said I'm dying of cancer or what.

You were prepared for anything. I was prepared. I was open to it, whatever. And she said, just like I can remember, we're going to have a baby. I accepted that without talking to you, but, you know, if you want out,

I understand. And I thought about it for about half a second. And I said, you know, why wouldn't I not be part of this? I said, you know, absolutely, let's do it. Charles approached Kay and Larry Woodcock about adopting JJ. And because Kay and Larry wanted to give JJ brothers and sisters and parents with more energy than they had at this point in their

lives, they made the difficult decision to give JJ up for adoption as long as Kay and Larry could continue to be a major part of their grandson's life. They wanted him to have a family where they believed he would be nurtured and taken care of with Lori and Charles Vallow. And JJ did just that. He quickly grew into a rambunctious, loving little boy whose older four siblings doaded on him and adored him. Charles took great care to make sure JJ, who had autism, had the best schools and early intervention, as well as a therapy dog named Bailey. Lori and Charles moved from Texas to Arizona and even Hawaii at one point.

Charles made sure it was always someplace warm for his wife as Lori disliked the cold. And he always made sure it was a place with a good school for JJ. In early 2017, the blended family finally settled back in Arizona in the Phoenix area. Lori was committed to her religion and Charles converted to Mormonism and attended church with her. During their two and a half years living in Hawaii, as well as their time in Arizona, Lori served as the primary president in their church congregation. In other words, Lori was leader over all of the children at church. And according to those who worked with Lori in the primary, the children adored her.

Julie Brooks was in the primary presidency with Lori. She was great with the kids, and she was like fun and energetic. she was at the time, you know, super interactive and we liked her. But beyond teaching the children in church simple lessons about how God loves them and teaching them how to sing, it seemed to some friends and family that Lori's religious beliefs actually started to go beyond the LDS Church's mainstream doctrine and started to become a bit more extreme? I actually really liked Lori. She was a very likable person. I think at the time when I met her, she was just starting to read Chad's books. And I do know that Charles was talking to people

about him saying she's changing. Like she's obsessed with the second coming. And obviously, I don't think people realize the degree that that was happening. Lori, like Chad, enjoyed reading books about near-death experiences and books encouraging its readers to seek out their own personal visions of Christ. The authors that Lori read included Julie Rowe, that author I mentioned earlier whose books Chad published, as well as books written by a man named Denver Snuffer. Lori also listened and paid attention to the teachings of Mike Stroud. He was a man who had taught high school seminary to Mormon youth for decades, but in his retired years, Mike preached personal visions of Christ.

How do we come up while in this life in the fish, see God face to face? Traveling in portals. After I'd learned to converse with the Lord through the veil, I said, have I been traveling at night? He said, yes. evil spirits possessing bodies. A while ago that was concerned about somebody he knew that was dealing with some dark spirits. And becoming one of the 144,000 spoken of in the book of Revelation. Thor and Chad and Jason, there are people in this room that have full membership in the Church of the Firstborn.

This group and others like this have been prepared for these very things. there are translated beings among us on the earth. They look like us. Each of these individuals, by the way that I just mentioned, Julie Rowe, Denver Snuffer, and Mike Stroud, they have all been excommunicated from the LDS Church for teachings against LDS doctrine. And it wasn't, though, just casual reading and podcast listening.

Lori's beliefs in these self-proclaimed visionaries was becoming more intense. And she was attempting to convert those, close to her with the same teachings. The Lord is gathering his people. He is calling people to the 144,000. They're already being called. They're already being sent on their mission.

They're already going full circle. The time is now. He is coming. He is preparing us. And we promised we would do it. Her friend April Raymond, who went to church with Lori in Hawaii, well, she told me, that Lori had given her Denver Snuffer's book a second comforter as a gift and told April that it would

change her life. In the book, Snuffer teaches readers to seek their own visions of Christ. Lori's older brother, Alex Cox, someone you really need to remember, Alex Cox. Well, he had been excommunicated from his Mormon faith years prior for sexual deviancy, but he took his sister's advice and started immersing himself in the unique books and strange. beliefs in portals, possession, controlling the element, desiring to be translated, and having your own vision. Lori even saying about her brother's conversion to these bizarre beliefs on the karaoke app small in November of 2017, seeming to mention both Julie Rowe that author whose books Chad published and Mike Stroud. The lyrics are set to the tune of Leonard

Cohen's song, Hallelujah. And some of the lyrics that you're about to hear, it's started out with Julie Rowe and it turned on the light you know and he meaning Alex was changed forever in an instant he Alex knows there is a god above he surely taught him how to love and Mike confirms his insights every day now take a listen according to multiple sources including family Lori loved the book Visions of Glory by John Pontius. Pontius passed away from cancer shortly after his book's publication and he remained a member of the LDS Church at death, but his book has been controversial within the LDS Church and its circles. The book revolves around a man named Spencer and Spencer's multiple near-death experiences and visions. Well, Pontius interviewed Spencer,

for his book and declared Spencer's visions. as truth. So how did Lori Vallow's beliefs fit in with Chad Daybell's beliefs, and how did these two worlds finally collide? Well, Chad Daybell also spoke about the book Visions of Glory and the book's visionary that is named Spenter in this book, even mentioning Spencer and the book by name in the speeches that he gave at these Doomsday conferences. Take a listen. Here's Chad mentioning Spencer in one of his speeches. I believe the 10 tribes have great gifts that we don't understand in Spencer's book, Visions of Glory. He talks about how they can just mold rock. They can take a tree and tell it to be a sad chair or something like that, and the tree will obey. So I found the real Spencer

during my research, and he is a retired therapist and the University of Utah professor in Salt Lake City, Utah, named Tom Harrison. And I reached out to Harrison a few years ago with some questions, and he mailed me a letter that he had written to leaders of his LDS congregation back in 2014, declaring that he is indeed Spencer. And what else does he do? Well, he denounces the book Visions of Glory and actually apologizes for it in this letter. I read a part of a letter to one of our interviewees named Anna, who also brought up the controversy and prominent of this book when it comes to Chad and Laurie's beliefs. Here's a snippet from that interview I had with Anna. Take a listen. I don't know that I'd ever heard of portals before visions of glory. Okay. And, you know, Mike Stroud

started talking about portals. Chad's talked about portals. But yeah, I think it's really influenced people. This book has a hold on a lot of people, including Chad and Lori. And again, I see a lot of, you mentioned portals and I see a lot of possession in this book. Tom sent me something that he wrote in 2014, apologizing for the book. I believe much of it is a metaphor or analogy, and that's all it should be taken as. He then ends with that he holds his membership of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as his most price possession. He apologizes for any injury or. misunderstanding. This has caused the church, his family, or individual associated with this book.

He is so sorry for any offense. This has caused any member. Visions of Glory takes readers through what will happen before the second coming of Christ, like tribulations, tragedy, destruction. And this traumatic time period also includes portals, people becoming translated, tent. cities, evil spirits entering bodies, knowing different people from past lives that the other has lived, being possessed by evil spirits. And get this, how some people are so evil that they will be better off being killed before Christ comes again. Most people don't realize how much their personal information is being bought and sold every day. Data brokers are making billions,

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With one app, you get a VPN, antivirus, password manager, spam call protection, dark web monitoring, and even up to $5 million in identity. theft insurance, all backed by 24-7 U.S.-based fraud support. Other companies might sell just credit monitoring or just a VPN. ORA gives you all of it, together, at the same price competitors charge for just one service. Start your free trial today at ORA.com slash remove. Protect yourself now at aura.com slash remove. And again, the book is based on the visions of Spencer or Tom Harrison,

because Tom Harrison had these multiple near-death experience. Thus, this means that Spencer can now see visions of the future. Spencer, Tom Harrison, same, same. So the readership for this book is actually quite large and it has a bit of a cult following. Even still today, around this time, period, it was being promoted by conservative political commenter Glenn Beck and being read and shared by Tim Ballard. Tim Ballard was the man who was a subject of the movie Sound of Freedom. And Ballard was also appointed. by President Trump to head the advisory council to end human trafficking. Yet now numerous women have now come forward to claim Ballard actually trafficked them through fake rescue missions. And let's not forget Ruby Frankie and Jody Hildebrandt two convicted child abusers who, according to Ruby's Dr. Sherry, they also love the book Visions of Glory and believed it to be truth. Jody Hildebrant and Tom Harrison would even speak at conferences together. So I know that's a lot. So let's get back to Chad and Lori before we go too far off with Ruby and Jody here.

But in addition to this book, Visions of Glory, and the extreme religious literature, Lori and her brother Alex were devouring. Around 2016, Lori also started reading those doomsday novels written by Chad Daybell themselves. It seemed only natural that Chad's writings would also appeal to Lori. And Chad had recently added to his book collection with an autobiography that he wrote in 2017. Well, and in that book, Chad shared that he too had not one but two near-death experiences resulting from cliff jumping into a lake at 17 and another from a rogue ocean wave in California. Here is Chad in 2018 speaking at a conference sharing about these near-death experiences.

Now, this is exclusively shared on Hidden Two Crimes YouTube channel after a source came forward with the speech, the very speech that he gave the day that he met Lori Vallow in St. George, Utah. Take a listen. And it just took forever to hit the water. Just one, two, three, it just kind of flailing. And when I hit, it was like hitting concrete. And I could, it just felt like I broke my neck, honestly. That was my first indication.

But what really happened is my body went deeper than my spirit. And so I was like three quarters out of my body. It's like I came out through my head. And I looked around, and it was like a plane of white light. My body and spirit went back together. I later learned it wasn't the best fit. For 30 years, I was going to off. So.

So according to Chad Daybell, these deathly moments underwater gave Chad an earthly gift. They caused Chad's celestial veil to rip open, and he can now see into the heavens and receive visions of things to come just like Spencer in visions of glory. So Eric Smith, that's a friend of Chad's from Rexburg, Idaho. And you can see his interview, by the way, too. You can head to our YouTube channel or our podcast to hear Eric Smith's interview. Well, Eric said that Chad could indeed see beyond the veil. Chad is gifted. There is no denying it.

Okay. And anybody who says otherwise is probably not being truthful with themselves. How is he gifted? He could see and discern things on the other side of the veil. He could see energies. And visions, Chad started claiming so much so that Chad was continually being asked to speak at these conferences. And he was being asked to participate. on a prepper website called AVow or another voice of warning. A vow focused on preparing for

future calamity and chaos that the last days would bring and is actually listed by the Southern Poverty Law Center as an anti-government extremist organization. It was started by a man named Roger K. Young who sold it to his friend Christopher Perret in East Idaho. Well, both Young and Perrette would share personal visions and conspiracy theories on the website, which included how members of Avow would help members of the LDS Church survive against invaders of other countries in the American West. Peret wrote on the Avow website, quote, however, it is our belief that very shortly, the world and society as we know it, will drastically and suddenly change. The time is shortly coming which has been prophesied and seen in visions and dreams since the world began."

And quote. Roger K. Young, Perret, and Chad Daybell also are all listed as co-authors on a book together titled Dreams, Visions, and Testimonys of the Last Days, Volume 3. Perret offered Chad Daybell a platform to share his visions on a vow. Chad's visions included the establishing of a New Jerusalem in the last days. Chad DeVell contacted me off of a prepper site. A Vow is also the place where he met Julie Rowe, a woman who also claimed to have near-death experiences. In February of 2014, Chad DeVell contacted me off of a prepper site.

I was typing about my dreams and visions. At that point, had not, had just barely started to tell people that I actually had a near-death experience. And that was when Chad Daybell started. started publishing Julie Rose books. I've had six near-death experiences and lots of out-of-bodied. I came to this planet with the ability to see, hear, fill, and understand the other side of the veil. Several spiritual gifts that I'm not going to get into all of those right now.

Everything from being able to see spirits on the other side of the veil or hear them, whether they are of the light or the dark or anything in between. And many of Chad's visions written on a vow or shared in his speeches included stories leading up to a rumored call out happening just before the apocalypse. Yes, a call out, which means, according to those on a vow, that the most righteous members of the LDS faith who have diligently prepared for the second coming of Jesus Christ would be called to the mountains to set up what Chad referred to as white. camps, meaning white tents that would house the righteous, a refuge that would provide supplies to righteous families when the tribulations began. And while the LDS Church does not teach about any call out in official church meetings, I have delved into where this belief originated because it is a big belief. And my research takes me to avows founder Roger Kay Young. And I have read Roger

Kay Young's book, Dreams, Visions and Testimonys Volume 1, where he cites scripture and past LDS church leaders to back up his claims of this alleged callout for the most righteous of LDS preppers. But I will say that his sightings of old ideas and out of context teachings from leaders past and present make it pretty clear to me that the call out begins with Roger Kay Young, his books and the teaching of this so-called call-out. It becomes the origin of a vow. Here are two interviews, a once-a-vow member, Anna, and Suzanne Freeman, a once friend of Chad Daybell, discussing this call-out.

Were you a member of a vow, too? Short, short time. I was on there, and it's just pettiness. One person posted, I can't wait for the call-out number of all. my eyes. I'm like, you serious? You really think the college's going to be that great? Living in a tent, hardly having any running water? People fighting over their food storage? I just, I just didn't. That is interesting to someone said they couldn't wait almost as if they were prepared and felt

special, maybe. I think they, I think that's what it was. I think they felt they were more special because they were more prepared that they, their eyes were open. They're open to spirituality and they're open to being prepared. And so when the call out happens, they're going to listen to the prophet. It's some private belief that they had, but they didn't share it with, you know, their bishop and they're, you know, really excited president and people in their ward. That was something that was like, I can get online and I can talk to all my buddies on PTC or on a vow and I can share what I really believe and my dreams and my visions.

but I'm not going to, you know, not going to share this with people in my ward. Chad would sell his books through a vow. Chad would promote Christopher and a vow and give a vow credibility. And so Christopher, you know, he's got 10,000 people who are on a vow and he's making, you know, 40, 50 years. You know, this is quite lucrative for both of them, right? Right. And then it's lucrative for Julie because, you know, she's promoted on a vow. She's promoted by Chad and she promotes Chad and she promotes Avow.

Chad has some of his own spiritual gifts. He is also visionary. I would, I don't say this in a bragging way, but my gifts are more extensive than his. So Chad's visions that were now being shared weekly, if not daily, on the Avow website, they included end of times, doomsday scenarios, eerily similar to visions of glory, as well as Chad's fictional apocalyptic novels that were being read by Lori. And Chad, he soon began to stop calling his fictional novels fiction. Take a listen to more of the speech that Chad Daybell gave at that doomsday conference.

That speech we received from our source where Chad explains his books are actually truth. When I wrote it, I've worked at a publishing company and we've done a couple of near-death books. And Desart book had rejected him and just kind of had some controversy about him. And so I felt inspired that it should be written fictionally. I didn't just not tell anybody about it. And just put it out there. And it sounds really well. And so we did a couple of follow-ups.

The great gathering starts right as there's an earthquake in Utah in Salt Lake Valley. And you follow some of the families go to the camp. Some of them don't. And if you see the outcome of that. Chad also started telling his own family that his fictional books were real. And our interview with Anna explains when that happened. Chad and Tammy had moved up to Idaho by this time. So they moved up there, I think, in the summer of 2015.

Julie Roe came up to Rexburg. And I think they rented the Rexburg Tabernacle for her to speak. And literally, the place was filled. And I don't know how many people it holds, but it was like packed I've heard about 2000 at least yeah yeah this particular event you're referring to I've heard others talked about it right and as a matter of fact I had two friends who were on a valve but I also knew them from my ward who went up there to hear her speak and they said they waited in line to meet her she was kind of a celebrity so her books were really popular so what

happened was Garth was saying, oh my gosh, he said, I learned so much this weekend. He said, Julie came and stayed with us. And I learned that my dad, all his books that he wrote this whole time growing up, I thought they were all just stories, just fiction. And he said, this weekend, I learned that they were all true, that everything in those books were from dreams and visions that he has had. And I never knew that. And he, he, He was so sincere. I didn't at all doubt that that he had grown up thinking that and that, but he found out this weekend. And then he said his dad went through this whole timeline of what was going to happen, right? Like the headquarters of the church was going to be moved up to Rexburg and there was going to be all these devastations and earthquakes in Utah was going to be just devastated. And he was just like going through the whole timeline. And this time. line is in Chad's books. It was just fascinating to me. And then he said something that was really interesting. He said, yeah, he said, I said, so Julie's books have been really popular, right? And so yeah,

he said, my dad has made so much money. He said, we never have been able to go like, go out to eat as a family. And my dad said, hey, we're going to go out to eat. We're going to go to whatever restaurant you want to. You can order whatever you want. And we're like, are you sure? And he's like, yeah, he says, we've got money now, you know. So this was very, very popular. And it really, like I think, Chad from like really a struggling publisher, author to somebody who is kind of hit the big time, right?

Despite Lori and Chad having some mutual friends and these shared doomsday beliefs, it actually wasn't until October 2018 when Chad Daybell and Lori Ballot officially met while at a doomsday LDS conference in St. George, Utah, where attendees spoke of their visions and dreams. The group back then was called Preparing a People, but since Chad's arrest,

they've decided to rebrand as Latter-day Media. And Chad Daybill was often one of their main speakers. And again, those little snippets you just heard are from Chad's speech at that very event where he met Lori Ballo. I do believe President Trump, it was a miracle that he became president. Otherwise, we would probably be headed right into these tribulations by this point. But I do believe the timeline can shift. The Lord allows that to happen.

Each one of you has a special mission and you need to pray and find out. And I know though the Lord will tell you, We really don't understand how wonderful it's going to be in the difference for making people's lives. So you will be a part of that. Let's be honest. Buying cannabis shouldn't be complicated, sketchy, or low quality. That's why I want to tell you about mood.com. That's M-O-O-D.com.

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discreetly, and ready to elevate your mood. And because you're a listener, you get 20% off your first order. Just head to mood.com. That's M-O-O-O-D. com to get started. Chad later told Lori he was watching Lori during his speech and that he believed she was the only one listening intently to his every word. And while these conferences are not sponsored by the LDS Church, they do continue as a group of like-minded Mormons preparing for the last days. The group preparing a people, again, now it is known as Latter-day Media. It is headed by a married couple named Mike and Nancy James. And they also focus on dreams and visions just like the Avail website. Mike and Nancy were big believers in chat, so much so that they, along with others,

made the move to Rexburg, Idaho after Chad encouraged them. Preparing a people conference announcement with Chad Davell, one of our main speakers, we are holding the first Rexburg conference in the tabernacle up there on Saturday, July the 15th and our theme is uplifting the downtrodden and healing the brokenhearted which we all can relate to right I'm just very honored to be part of the conference I've recently released my autobiography entitled Living on the Edge of Heaven where I tell more about my two near-death experiences and how that prompted me to write my novels so we are really excited to have Chad he's one of my favorite people in

fact we he used to be in Springville and then we followed in to Rex Yeah. Some conference goers also believed in the unique belief of multiple probations or a form of reincarnation. Multiple probation means living again and again as different people throughout history. And while the modern LDS church does not adhere to any belief in multiple lives, Chad Daybilt was one of many preparing a people attendees who preached this belief in multiple probations. In fact, when Chad first met Lori at that event, he was a amazing.

immediately attracted to her. And he told her that. She came over to his booth that day before his big speech and he was signing books. Well, he had told her after he saw her that they had been married in a past life. Like that was his pickup line. He looked at her and said, we were married in a past life. And Lori, a petite blonde who Chad said was the most perfect woman he had ever seen, a goddess seemed to quickly accept this idea of once being his wife in another probation. Chad was James the less in a past probation. He told her and Lori Valo, well, she had been his wife Elena and so began their rushed romance. The two went their separate ways after the event. Chad drove north back to Idaho where he lived with his wife Tammy Daybill and their five children,

and Lori drove south back to her current home in Arizona. with Charles Vallow, Colby, Tiley, and JJ. But just two days after Lori and Chad met at that conference, Chad emailed Lori about some of his additional beliefs. Because you see, Chad wasn't just a visionary. He explained to Lori that he had the power to discern who was light and who was dark. Or in other words, who was good and who was evil, just like Spencer could in the book Visions of Glory.

And in the email, which Chad states is the information that Lori requested, Chad labels each person in Lori's family as either light or dark, or good or bad, evil or righteous. And while Lori's two sons, Colby and JJ and her husband Charles Vallow, were all deemed light, Lori's teenage daughter, Tiley, according to Chad, was dark, very dark. And this was just the beginning. It did not take long for others in Lori's life to start also being labeled as dark. Melanie Gibb, that is another name. I recommend you remember in all of this

and someone who will most likely be a major witness in Lori's Arizona trials. Well, Melanie was there in Arizona with her best friend, Lori Vallow, when Chad Daybell called Lori and told her that Charles Vallow, Lori's husband, was now a zombie. Yes, a zombie. Not only was Charles no longer light, but he was a zombie inhabited by a dark spirit named Ned Schneider.

Here is Melanie explaining this in a police interview. It was in January sometime. Okay. Yeah, and she was on the phone with Chad. Okay. And I was in her house. And I remember even just like where she was when she told me how you remember the spots. Remember she was like in her back door coming in.

Okay. She went out and talked from probably outside and I wasn't. listening to that. And then she came back in and I knew she was just talking to him. And so she was kind of going back and forth. And then she got the phone and told me about him. And what, well, told me what Chad said, which was he became an Ed Spider person. Melanie, a fellow avow member who also attended preparing a people conferences, also seemingly trusted Chad Daybell. I mean, Melanie had known Chad even longer than she had known Lori. Chad even agreed to write the forward in Melanie's memoir titled Feel the Fire.

And in an email, two hidden true crime from someone who knows Chad, well, they claim that Chad actually had his sights set on Melanie Gibb until the fateful day he met her best friend. Lori, in fact, he had told them both that he had been married to them each in a past life. Well, this didn't seem to make the two girlfriends jealous being both married. to Chad and past lives. Melanie and Lori process what Chad was telling them about Charles Vallow no longer being Charles. And exorcisms or castings then took place with friends in Arizona to fix this zombie problem. Yes, like friends having casting parties or exorcism parties.

Melanie Gibb was a part of this as well as a woman named Zulema Pestanis. And these were two of the friends who participated in attempting to release Ned from the body of Charles. Ned Schneider. Let's get them out. Let's get Charles back. Well, they have these casting or exorcism parties. And it wasn't just Chad that sort of preach these parties. I want you to know it was sort of like a thing going on in these groups.

Mike Stroud also taught what it was meant to cast the advanced evil spirits out of someone's body when they are being taken over by this person's identity. Here, here's what Mike Stroud says in a podcast, quote, command the evil spirit to be bound and contained casting them to spirit prison until they repent or receive their final judgment, end quote. What the idea is is to get, if there is an evil spirit in you, then you ask in the name of Christ that that evil spirit late. That's what it's about. Okay, but she, she's lost her mind. I have to say it. We're LDS.

She thinks she's a resurrected being. While Charles was aware and concerned that Lori was calling him Ned Schneider, like Lori was up front about this. You are a zombie and your name is Ned. Charles did not know about the casting or the exorcism parties that were taking place. But still, Charles sought help. Being called Ned and being called a zombie was enough for Charles to seek help in any way he possibly could when it came to his wife, who he thought was moving deeper and deeper into these extreme religious beliefs. Well, also for the safety of his family and himself, Charles also told police he feared for his own safety.

My bishop right there is in the car. He was on the phone with me today. When she said, I will have you destroyed. That's what she said there. Okay, that's not a threat to kill you. Yesterday was a threat to kill me. Okay. What did she say yesterday?

She said, you're not Charles. I don't know who you are, what you did with Charles, but I can murder you now with my powers. Okay. Okay. All right. I'm going to kill you too. I'm going to yesterday.

So she's speaking as a spiritual being. And when police didn't believe, Charles, he then went to his bishop, the bishop of his church congregation, who overheard Lori say that she wanted to destroy Charles. And he asked his bishop to speak to police. And just so I'm clear, she didn't threaten him, the children or herself in that conversation? No, everything was subjective. She did use the word destroy. She said, I will destroy you. But it was done in a very subjective way that it could have, it didn't necessarily.

necessarily come across as a direct threat to him or the children or herself. Okay. Like it could have been destroyed his reputation or something less literal? His spirit, for all we know, you know, his spirit powers or something, you know, it was just very non-specific. Okay. When she was speaking, and I know you said it was short, did she seem coherent or was she... She seemed coherent, but her statements were, strangely irrational. She was accusing it of something, but was not tell him what it was. Okay. She seemed to indicate, again, in a somewhat oblique way that he wasn't who he said he was, that he was. Okay. But she sounded very lucid as she was speaking. Okay. All right, so I think that's all, I really appreciate your time. I know this is an awkward

position for you to be in. And while Charles continued to seek help from anyone who would listen, including Melanie Gibb, he gets me to come over to his house. And I get there and it's him and I'm like, oh my gosh. So I talked to him and he's like, you know, Melanie, Lori's crazy. Like she thinks that I'm this guy named Ned and that she's trying to destroy my life. And I'm like, I just don't know what to say. Lori and her friends continue to host these castings or these exorcisms. But despite hosting many of these parties, they were not working.

These exorcisms were not working, according to Chad. Chad continually explained to Lori and her friends that Ned remained in Charles's body, that the spirit was breaking eternal law by remaining inside of Charles. And once Ned was finally removed, it didn't really matter anyway because a more advanced evil spirit entered Charles by the name of Iplos. This is all real. Yes, Ned leaves Iplos. comes and in the end there seemed to be only one option left, an option that seems to be the

beginning of this killing spree across states. To protect Lori from the dark spirit named Ned that was inside Charles, Lori then recruited her older brother, Alex Cox, to spend the night at her house. Lori invited him. It was Arizona, July 10th, 2019. Charles, who was currently separated from Lori due to her growing radical beliefs and the fact that she was calling him a zombie and these frightening accusations of him not being who he actually was. Well, he was separated from her, but he showed up in the morning on July 11, 2019, to be a responsible father and husband to take their son JJ to school. But Charles never did take JJ to school that morning. Rather, he was killed within minutes, shot twice by Alex. And according to Alex and Lori, the brother and sister duo, they told police that Charles was shot in self-defense. Alex was protecting his sister from her husband who had turned violent, they said in police

interviews. Never mind that Lori left the scene of the shooting with JJ and Tiley and purchased flip-flops and breakfast at Burger King before returning to even talk to police. and never mind that Alex waited 45 minutes before even calling 911 after the shooting. And that first responders could tell that CPR wasn't even performed, despite Alex telling the 911 operator that he did perform it. Never mind that at least one bullet entered Charles' body

while he was laying on the floor. And never mind that Lori made light of the situation when she returned to the scene, this recording on police body cam footage. of that day. Gotcha. Like, Hi, neighbor, sorry.

After police interviews, Lori and Alex walked out free to continue their day. In fact, Lori even left with a victim's advocate. But two years later,

and I might add two years too late, charges did finally come in Charles's death. In the probable cause, the charging documents from Arizona charging Lori

with conspiring to kill Charles, it states that after Charles was shot and killed, that Zulama, Pestanis, while she texted a friend named Julie Clements, who was also at the castings. And Zulama said to Julie that it was, quote, a Nephi and Laban ending, end quote. This is referring to a story in the book of Mormon where an ancient prophet named Nephi kills another man in the name of God and righteousness. So pretty much saying, look, this is how it went. We were meant to kill Charles. Shortly after Charles was killed in August 2019, Lori moved 900 miles north to the cold climate of Rexburg, Idaho, saying goodbye to Warm for the first time in her life, as well as saying goodbye

to her oldest son, Colby, who was recently married and had just became a new dad. So she was also saying goodbye to her first granddaughter. Lori, though, did bring JJ with her, and Tiley also made the move. Tiley was 16 at the time. She was very close to her mom and actually so loyal to her mother aunt to her little brother, JJ. And she texted a friend that she was moving to attend BYU, Idaho. Her uncle Alex Cox also moved by all accounts.

Alex really did seem a true believer in Chad, Daybell's visions and a believer that he really was his sister Lori's protector. Chad even declared Alex a protector of Lori in a patriarchal blessing in November of 2019. Opening up the portals of time and going back to your previous creations on which you've lived, I see you on the third creations of valiant warrior fighting for truth and righteousness. always seeking to do what is right. Progressed and were selected by the Savior and himself to be part of the fourth creation. Great warriors were needed.

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ora.com slash remove. Two weeks after the big move to Idaho on September 8th, 2019, Tiley was last seen on a nearby trip to Yellowstone National Park with her mom, her uncle Alex, and JJ. A photo from that day shows smiles from Alex and Lori while Tiley wraps her arms around her little brother, JJ. Her smile not as big, not as carefree as the adults that surround her. Melanie Gibb later recalled Lori calling Tiley a zombie during a phone call with Lori in Idaho and overhearing Tiley respond on the phone, quote, no mom, not me.

Melanie actually relays this story to her friend Sherry who recorded the conversation because she was so shocked and Sherry later shared this recording with us. So she's told to move up to Rexburg. The Lord tells her move up to Rexburg now. She takes Tiley and JJ with her. Tiley and J.J. are up there. I know she's up there with both of them because I can hear them on the phone in the background while she's packing and moving in.

So she knew Tiling was alive at that point. But then she said that Lori had said that she was a zombie over the phone. And she told me already that Charles was a zombie. So I'm just like I was just like shocked I'm like oh my gosh And she's like And she said

Tiley said in the back girl Not me mom That she heard her say that When Lori told her over the phone That she was a zombie now JG's there And she tells me he's a zombie now Oh my goodness

And so was Tiley Oh no Yeah so people that are zombies They don't end up Staying alive But she probably see the pattern Right And then

Two weeks After that infamous Yellowstone trip where Tiley was last seen before she disappeared. Seven-year-old JJ also disappeared. Melanie Gibb and her boyfriend, David Warwick, were some of the last witnesses to see JJ as they were visiting Lori at her Rexburg townhouse

to record a Feel the Fire podcast. They were also there to attend a doomsday conference called the Ferm Expo, and they were looking at property to possibly move to Rexburg. Well, David watched Alex carry the sleeping boy, little JJ, upstairs to Lori's bedroom in this townhouse as they recorded that night, the podcast. Melanie Gibb later recalled that during her visit, that Lori told Melanie that she was starting to suspect that JJ was also a zombie. And Melanie told police that David that night had a terrible night. nightmare in the middle of the night while sleeping next to his girlfriend, Melanie Gibb.

Melanie says that she was so scared of this nightmare that David was having at like 2 a.m. in the morning that she ran to Lori's room to knock, like to seek help. Well, and Lori's room, it was locked. His whole body was under distress. When he has dreams, they're like lifetime dreams. You know, some people dream vividly. I do not dream like that. He has incredible dreams where he feels everything in his dream.

So it affects him at a totally different level. Okay. Oh, my gosh, maybe some evil spirit, because, you know, they were always talking about it. So I text Lori and I text chat. I'm like, I don't remember what I said. Probably are you awake or something wrong chat. I mean, David, I don't remember what I said. I just remember trying to get to them.

So I said, I'm going to go get Lori, see if she can help out. The door was locked. And I did actually, I think I tried calling her to and texting her. And I think Chad, I think I tried calling him. I thought maybe he could help out. They did not, neither one of them responded to me. The next morning, as Melanie Gibb and David are preparing to leave Rexburg and head back home to Utah, they ask where JJ is. And no one will tell them.

They never see JJ that morning. But Lori did tell Melanie that JJ had been possessed and that he had been crawling on top of cabinets above the fridge and knocking down a picture of Jesus. And what did David and Melanie give do? They drove home to Utah. Well, J.G.'s grandparents, Kay and Larry Woodcock, again from Louisiana, they could not get a hold of their young grandson, J.G. Kay again, was also Charles's sister, and one of the reasons Lori and Charles had been eager

to adopt J.J. When he was just a baby, the little boy was already family. And Kay and Larry had had custody of JJ before the adoption and it had again made sense to the Woodcock's to give JJ siblings in a comfortable home where they felt was safe and happy with Charles and Lori. But since Charles had been killed in July, all communication with Kay and Larry's sister-in-law Lori and their little man as the Woodcocks called JJ had ceased. Back in July, they were shocked when they learned Charles had been killed by Alex Cox and they were certain it could not be self-defense. Charles just wasn't a violent man, they thought. Not only that, but K had received Charles's life insurance money. Well, why? Because Charles had told his sister Kay, look, if anything

happens to him, it was Lori or Alex. He had implied to Kay that Lori didn't want JJ anymore, and that Charles wanted Kay and Larry to have money to support and raise JJ. The Woodcock's grandson, And of course they were like, absolutely, we will take care of our JJ. And it wasn't long before his death that Charles had changed his life insurance policy from Lori to Kay Woodcock. But he never did tell Lori. The Woodcock's traveled to Arizona from Louisiana demanding answers. Well, Charles, my brother. And we just, we don't even, I don't know where to start with all this because this is crazy.

We flew in. I mean, this morning early, early. So we could be here. Charles was one of the kindest guys you ever met. You ever wanted to meet. And he was the kind of guy that you wanted to be friends with. This is a setup. Valery and Kay were also discovering so much more than they'd ever imagined.

A seemingly strange cult that their sister-in-law Lori seemed to be involved in. The Woodcocks, they were also communicating with Brandon Boudreau nearby in Gilbert, Arizona. Brandon, again, now, are you ready for this? Brandon was Lori's niece's estranged husband. Brandon's wife, also named Melanie, had left Brandon and her children to move to Idaho with her Aunt Lori. Brandon explained to the Woodcox, his wife Melanie Boudreau's strange beliefs, her loyalty to Lori, his knowledge of Chad Daybell. And the Woodcocks just listened, shocked at what they were learning from Brandon.

But the Woodcocks and Brandon also were able to exchange notes while trying to find their grandson, Brandon's nephew, to find out where Lori was living. Now, before I go on, I did just introduce another Melanie to this story. And so to keep name straight, I'm going to give props to just. Gigi from the Pretty Lies and Alibis podcast. She has nicknamed Melanie Boudreau-Polowski, Brandon Boudreau's ex-wife, as Melanese to remember that she is Lori's niece. And we're going to go with that here.

Melanese is Lori's niece and ex-wife to Brandon Boudreau, while Melanie Gibb is Lori's best friend. So just before Melanese and Brandon's divorce was finalized, on the morning of October 2, 2019, about a week and a half after JJ was last seen, Brandon is driving home after dropping his kids off at school and daycare. As he pulls into his driveway, a bullet comes flying through his Tesla's window. Police now believe the single shot was fired by Alex Cox from a Jeep Wrangler that was registered to the deceased Charles Vallow. Brandon had escaped death by inches, literal inches.

I'm going to search around the perimeter house and make sure nobody broke into your house. And then if it's okay with you, you do mind if we go in, just to make sure there's nobody in there. or anything like that. He took his children and with the help of trusted friends and family, Brandon and his kids went into hiding, while his wife, 900 miles away in Rexburg, Idaho, claimed on social media that Brandon had kidnapped her children. Two weeks after Brandon's shooting incident,

Brandon called Kay Woodcock, this time with more news. If it couldn't get worse, he was frantic. I just learned Tammy Daybell, Chad's wife has died. he told Kay. The 911 call came in about 49-year-old Tammy Daybell's death on October 19, 2019. On that day, Lori was out of town in Hawaii. Again, Chad was home and made the 911 call, and police documents now show that Alex Cox's phone did ping from a parking lot of a nearby church the previous night before Tammy

Daybell was found dead. And according to Chad, his zoom below. loving wife of 29 years, mother to his five adult children, well, she had simply passed in her sleep. No autopsy was performed 49 years old, but it was deemed natural. And she was buried three days later in her hometown of Springville, Utah. All right. All right. Let's go to the courthouse in Idaho. That's where reporter and great podcaster Lauren Mathias had a front row seat. The fact that he didn't want an autopsy. Has that registered at all with people in the courtroom? Yes, it absolutely has registered because we went through witness testimony after witness testimony

this afternoon explaining all the things that seemed suspicious and off when they went to this call, this 911 call. You know, it looked like she had passed away hours ago. There was pink foam coming out of her mouth. Chad had been wiping the pink foam away. They had moved the body. And then at the end, each person said, but, you know, we decided not to do an autopsy, to put on this death certificate natural causes. And to be clear,

we don't know that she was suffering with pancreatic cancer or any chronic illness or anything where her demise was foreseeable. We don't know that, but we also heard from a lot of witnesses who said she was taking high fitness classes and doing burpees, doing planks that she was taking a clogging class at the same time. It's hard to imagine that this was a woman that wasn't in decent health. I want to bring in Lauren Mathias.

She's the host of the Hidden True Crime podcast. She's in Idaho covering the case for us. Here's what really bugs me, Lauren, about this whole thing today. The coroner said the lividity. That's a fancy word for like the blood that pools wherever your body is like lowest. The lividity was all along Tammy's back, which would suggest she's lying down on her back when she dies. And yet they found her feet on the bed and body down on the floor. And the coroner

even asked, this doesn't make much sense. And yet again, they took Chad's word for it. I must have moved and the sheep pulled and then she just rolled out. I don't understand this. Yet again, we're not only that, but let's talk about the pink foam that everyone keeps talking about. They notice a towel on the side of the bed, Ashley. And then the coroner asks, well, what's this for? And then Chaz says, oh, well, I've been wiping the pink foam off and off and off. I mean, he woke up to find her dead. I don't know why he would be doing that. And then she does it too and notices it keeps coming.

So many strange things with his behavior. And they just kept at the end, they delivered a death certificate, natural causes. Yeah, it's maddening. But evidence does what it always does when law enforcement finally starts investigating, showing us so much more. Texts between Chad and Lori showed Chad explaining that Tammy had also been dubbed a zombie possessed by an evil spirit just before her death.

Her spirit's name was Viola. Well, how did she die? She goes, well, we just had to do what we could to take her out of her spirit, something like that. Uh-huh. She said that Tammy had gotten right before they killed her a couple weeks before, they killed her that she was starting to question and thought that there's something going on

between her and Chad Daygo. That's what Melma Gibbs says on this conversation. And I call her in Hawaii and I say, hey, guess what? You know, Tammy just died. Do you know this? And she goes, no, I haven't heard it yet. And I said, well, what happened? What happened to Tammy?

And she goes, well, she was a zombie two weeks before she died. That was like, really? She goes, yeah, she was starting to question our relationship. She was wondering if he was having an affair. I said, oh. This episode is brought to you by palm olive. Family time isn't just the big moments. It's weeknight dinners.

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And on November 5th, exactly 14 days after Tammy was buried, Chad and Lori smiled for wedding photos on a Hawaiian beach, ukulele in hand, while Lori danced and they giggled for the camera. And all the while, back on the mainland, Kay and Larry Woodcock continued to pursue answers, bade for answers. And once Kay discovered Lori's Rexburg Adjerk, after logging into Charles's Amazon account where it appeared that Lori, oh, look, had purchased wedding rings before Tammy's death.

Well, Kay then called Rexberg Police to request a welfare check. And by this time, Lori and Chad had returned to the frigid temperatures of eastern Idaho. And when police knocked on Lori's townhouse door on November 26th, Lori answered. And at this time, well, she was not. now Mrs. Lori Daybell, but she pretended to hardly know Chad, only saying that Chad was her brother's friend. She told police that Tiley was attending BYU, Idaho, and that JJ, well, JJ was in Arizona with her friend, Melanie Gibb. So who's the friend he's with? My friend Melanie. Her son has autism. Her name is Melanie Gibb. I gave him all the information on the phone. Okay, so he can call.

Yeah. birth. This court. Yeah. What is all this? We're a little concerned because, well, the officers we were here earlier. Yeah. We're checking and they got a bad vibe that, like, something was going on here because

nobody knew anything about a child. They weren't talking. It's because a lot of stuff that was gone on. If you're on, no, it's a lot of stuff. Well, that's why we're concerned because it's very. This was kind of weird. It is very weird. I've had to move around a lot.

One of my brothers is trained to kill me, not the brother that lives here. Obviously, he's kind of my protector. My other brothers that was in with my husband who was trying to kill me for my $2,000 life insurance. No. No. What? What did Melanie Gibb do when Chad and Lori called her and asked Melanie to cover for them?

Well, she did that. She covered for them. Melanie Gibb told police that JJ had been with her but was now on his wife. but was now on his way back to Idaho. But the truth was, JJ and Tiley, no, they were both missing. The day after Thanksgiving,

2019, a knock on Lori's townhouse door came again. This time, though, police had a search warrant. But Lori and Chad, well, they were gone. Nowhere to be found.

The media announced the missing children in December 2019. In a press release, Rexburg police requested the public's help, asking them to help them find the newly married couple, Chad and Lori Daybell, as well as helping to find two missing children, JJ and Tiley. The Woodcocks spoke out sharing their story, their fear, their hope, their ache to find the children. And while the children were not found right away, it did not take long for police to discover, Lori and Chad staying in a gated community near the beaches of Kauai. An arrest warrant for Lori was issued for not producing her children. And after Hawaiian law enforcement arrested her, she was extradited back to Idaho.

Her new husband, Chad Daybell, attended her court hearings while asking his neighbors and church members to mortgage their homes to help post his new wife's bail. And then Chad calls me and wants to bail out Lori. moment when he called me, that's when I'm like, this is not right. So he actually called me and asked me, look, Braxton, will you put up your house for Lori? And I said, yeah, I would do that for Lori, but I don't know if I'm going to do it for this situation. I said, you know what, let me think about it. And then he called me, I think it was two weeks after that again and talked to me about it.

And he had his cell phone and he had another cell phone. And he's like, hey, I got Lori on the line on the other. Holding them both up. All three talked. And she wanted me to put up the house. And I'm like, Lori, you know, that's a big commitment because that's my biggest asset in my life. When the bond hearing was set for Lori, he came to our place shortly after and asked if we would put our property up for bond. And I said, well, he mentioned another man's name that he can't help me.

I said, what about your family? No, my family can't help me. We told him we would think about it. And he left the next day. I think that was a Saturday. The next day was Sunday. And he texted us and said that he had a Wanswoman to come and talk with us. And we told him, well, we were still thinking about it.

And I asked him, I'm going to say this, I did ask him how many daughters she did have. And I said to him, you told me when we met that she had just lost a daughter. And he said, no, I didn't. I said, yes, you did. And so I knew that it was Tiley, that he was Tiley. talking to me about. I asked him also, where are they? I asked him, where are the kids, Chad, and doesn't totally want a life, a job, a car, a boyfriend. And he said she didn't like people and she didn't like me. But what he wasn't doing was asking anyone else to help him look for the missing

children because according to Chad, it was all a misunderstanding. Chad told his neighbors and his family and his friends, he told them that this was all a horrendous custody battle gone wrong. It had been started by Kay Woodcock and Larry Woodcock and they were trying to kidnap Lori's children, thus the children were in hiding. Are you defending Lori because she's your daughter and she's your sister? Or are you defending her because you really think that she did nothing wrong? We really think. We really that she did nothing wrong. She's had some bad judgment. She's married a few men that we didn't care for. She'll be the first to say that she's made a lot of mistakes and she's paid high prices for those mistakes. So what is the scenario that Tiley and JJ are still alive?

Well to us we believe they are because we know Lori and that's we have seen her dedication. Are they in a bunker somewhere? Are they with friends? Where do you think they are? We don't know. We wish we knew. We don't know. But we also don't know what Lori has been through. She was being threatened. She was being followed. Who was threatening her? Well, Kay was threatening her. And while some did sound the alarm on Chad's radical beliefs, including his own brother, Matt Daybell and his sister-in-law, Heather Daybell, they were his neighbors, both residents of Rexburg. And they certainly had things to say about Chad's beliefs. But others, well, others continue to defend Chad, believing that it was the media that was lying. And so many were certain the children were hidden in some bunkers somewhere, including those in the Lori's inner circle, including Lori's own family. Her own sister and mother spoke out early on saying they knew that the children were okay. Kay denies she threatened Lori, but Janice and Summers say that is the basis for why Lori moved to Idaho then, according to them, hid the children somewhere and has refused to produce them.

Do you think she's in a cult? No. No. No. No. We don't. But Lori is now married to Chad Daybell, an author of Doomsday Novels with a cult-like following in the Prepper world. I've spoken to people who live near Chad and they say we follow Chad.

They look at Chad like he's some sort of Messiah. I don't know Chad very well. I've only met him one time. I've never heard anything about him self-proclaiming to be a prophet or anything else of that nature or trying to get people to follow him. We can't see Lori Blanky. finally following anybody. Can you? No, we can't see it. You don't think that Chad brainwashed her? No, no, he couldn't do it. It's not possible. These two say they think Lori really believes she is protecting her children, but they say they wish she would bring them forward. It's been devastating not to see Tiley and JJ in such a long time. We love them so much. And it's been devastating not

to see Lori. Is there any part of the dark recesses of your minds that say, maybe she cracked and maybe this is not going to end up well. We have gone through those scenarios probably a hundred times. If something has happened to those children, it is not by her doing. And it's not by her permission. She couldn't crack enough to do harm to her children. And Julie Rowe, that author whose books Chad Daybill published, she also claimed that the kids were safe.

I do know that my angels tell me that Chad Davel is being falsely accused of a suspicious death of his wife. And continue to defend him, including Christopher Perrette, on the Eval website. The kids are safe. Hope was crushed when remains were discovered by law enforcement on June 9th, 2020. The brother and sister had been buried in Chad Debel's yard. Tiley's body was mutilated, burned and dismembered. JJ, he was wrapped head to toe in duct tape. Little seven-year-old JJ, still wearing the very same pajamas he was last seen in,

still in an overnight pull-up diaper. Let's start with Lori Valo trial because, yeah, this might be one of those days where I should take back what I said about not having a camera in the courtroom. because the audio alone made me cry and made me sick. And the testimony should make everybody sick. It will certainly make the jurors sick. These are normal people who do not deal with this on a regular basis. You know, they could be like hairstylists or mechanics or, you know, DMV employee.

And now all of a sudden they've got to deal with this. Pictures being shown of little kids mutilated and rotting. Allegedly at the hands of their mothers sitting just a few, feet away from them, I might add. Imagine taking your eyes off the disgusting globs of flesh in the photographs you're being forced to watch as a juror and looking across the room at the woman, the prosecutors say, she did this. They're her kids. She don't want them anymore. It's hard to imagine what the jurors went through. Those two little kids on the left seen with Alex Cox, Uncle Alex, behind them. So these little kids here seen in better days, J.J. Vallow, Tiley Ryan,

brother and sister, the evidence was all about them today. And Detective Ray Hermaccio was the only witness, he was the only one needed today, to tell everybody what happened to these kids. I'm going to just let him describe this. So I'm going to tell the controller, this is Ray. You could play Ray's testimony of what he told this courtroom and what he told those jurors was the condition of these little kids when they were discovered. Have a listen.

What I testified earlier about the mass, the clump of flesh and bone that was placed into the melted green bucket, that's what you're looking at here. You can see the part of the plastic green bucket. There's parts of bone sticking out here. This area here is all burnt flesh fatty tissue. There's organs that weren't completely burnt through all the way. Like it was just placed in the bucket and kind of stayed there. So we dug around that bucket the best we could. We would get in there and dig by hand with

with paint brushes or anything that we can get. Underneath this bucket, you can start seeing the partial remains of a human skull underneath the melted bucket. Detective, how long did this process take you? Hours. Like I said, we were only able to get down there in our hands and knees for a couple minutes before we had to have some. somebody else come relieve us because of the smell.

Detective, what did you observe in state's exhibit 11E? This is a close-up of the partial skull that was under the melted green bucket. It was a plat bucket. You can see the white lettering. There's an L there. But the bucket itself was melted and all that was stuffed inside. inside and underneath it was part of the top of the skull. And we also found a jawbone underneath this portion here that isn't depicted in that

picture. So all I can say is lucky you that you didn't have to see it. But the jury did. And Lori did too because Lori asked to leave. I guess this was hard for her. And she was told, no. not be going to sit right there. She wanted to waive her right to be present.

They said no, denied it. Denied her the right to walk out on these disgusting details of her kids and the condition that their bodies were in. A few other things I need to tell you about as well, and they matter, was that when they served a search warrant on her home and Chad's home and the garage and Alex, her brother's home, they found some weird, weird things. I'm just going to list them out for you.

You can imagine what they might have been used for, given now what you know, right? That's Chad's home. That's where the graves were. But in Lori's own garage, gun magazines and silencers, camo suit, knives, rifles, a handgun, and apparently a very frightening Halloween mask, a bag with rope and duct tape. Alex's passports, emails from Chad and a cell phone. That's in Lori's garage. in apartment 175 in the garage there.

It's probably where Alex was spending most of his time, even though they kind of went back and forth. Guns, army-type knives, empty magazines, various weapons. In Alex's closet, and here's an interesting find, hazmat-looking white suits. Why would Alex need hazmat like white suits? Unless he was, say, committing a murder, dismembering his niece, Tiley, with Chad and Lori.

and then burying or burning, trying to burn, failing to burn, and then just burying the globs that were left over. Maybe that's what the hazmat suits were for. The one thing they did find was a lot of personal effects because they left. They left the day after the welfare check and police are asking them questions about where are the kids and they say, oh, you know, here and there.

And the next day they came with warrants, and what do you know? They left. They just amscrayed to Hawaii. Yeah, that's a little shifty too, I agree. So I want to bring in right now from outside the Ada County Courthouse, Lauren Matthias, the host of the Hidden True Crime podcast, and Gigi McHelvey, host of the Pretty Lies and Alibis podcast. These two ladies, guys, I'm just going to say it. I don't know how you did it today. I know that it's your job to be in there, but I don't know how you sat through it.

And I'm just going to ask you to transport me into that courtroom today and tell me how it was. received by everybody by the jury by the defense table by Lori by the grandparents by the gallery like how did that horrible stuff settle with the gallery yeah actually it was definitely a hard day in the in the courtroom I was right next to Gigi the courtroom is small it is not a large courtroom so it's very intimate you can see everything we could see the jurors and there were many jurors crying during this the sound that you play during this testimony. There were Larry Woodcock was in there. He was sobbing with his hands in his,

or with his face, excuse me, in his hands. You had Kay Woodcock actually left, but you had JJ's older brothers there as well. And when there was a 15-minute recess after having to see photos of JJ wrapped in duct tape, wrapped in duct tape, and, you know, he was mummified almost with duct tape including they explained a piece of duct tape after they took a garbage sack off of his head they had a piece of duct tape from jawline to jawline on his mouth and and they showed a photo of this which you know you're okay until you know we're all journalists here ashley you're a journalist and you're okay you put your game face on and tell one moment all of a sudden you realize you're not okay and there was a moment

where reporters nobody was okay and there was a 15 minute recess and everyone walked out and and JJ's older brothers were crying Larry could he was sobbing uncontrollably I know that you saw a lot you're right in front of me and so Gigi actually saw you might even had a better view of some of the the family there than I did what did you see yeah I mean Larry was trying very hard to be respectful of not having an emotional outburst in court so he actually had a tissue in his hand that he was using to muffle his sobs. And I mean, it was, it was consistent throughout the testimony that you just played and the photos, which, you know, I've seen a lot

of crime scene photos doing what we do. Nothing prepared me for what I saw today. And it is the most horrific thing I've ever seen in my life, both of them in their own separate ways. What they did to these kids, Ashley, it defies logic. It's we were talking before we went on. I couldn't even spank my kids. I, much less allow this to happen to my kids or maybe even take part. We don't know to what extent she did, but it was solemn and heavy. And, you know, all of a sudden, all the Lori shenanigans and what's she wearing and what's her makeup?

Like, it doesn't matter. What mattered is this little boy and this young woman that we saw the remains of on that screen and what they did to them. all this other stuff, the loin fire, the jokes we've made, you know, it went out the window because this is the reality of why we're here. And looking at those bodies is something that I think I'll see for the rest of my life. I know you are both moms. And so I, you know, I send you my great thanks for doing this job today. This is one of those times when it really isn't what you expect and it doesn't leave you. So thank you guys. And I appreciate your analysis today as well. And I look forward to you continuing to transport us there. Because without that judge allowing a live feed,

we're all in the dark. So it's your, you know, it's your brave work today to take us into that trial. Thank you both. Lorne Mathias and Gigi McHalvey. Appreciate it. Most people don't realize how much their personal information is being bought and sold every day. Data brokers are making billions, pulling details about you from public records and the internet. and then packaging and selling it, usually without your consent. That's how your information lands in the hands of scammers, spammers, even stalkers. It's why you get endless robocalls and why ads seem to follow you everywhere. That's where ORA comes in.

ORA actively removes your data from broker sites and keeps it off. They also instantly alert you if your information shows up in a breach or on the dark web. But ORA goes beyond data protection. With one app, you get a VPN, antivirus, password manager, spam call protection, dark web monitoring, and even up to $5 million in identity theft insurance, all backed by 24-7 U.S.-based fraud support. Other companies might sell just credit monitoring or just a VPN. ORA gives you all of it, together, at the same price competitors charge for just one service.

Start your free trial today atora.com slash remove. Protect yourself now atora.orga.com slash remove. Alex Cox's phone, we learned later, had pinged on Chad Daybell's property on the days law enforcement believe the children were killed and buried. Alex would hold so many answers, and yet, well, he too died suddenly on December 12, 2019, at the home of his new wife, Zulema Pestanis, in Arizona. The two had a lobe just two weeks earlier in Las Vegas, Zulema and Alex. But Alex had died before the children were found, but not before Tammy Debel's body was exhumed. from the Springville Cemetery for further analysis.

This happened less than 24 hours before Alex's death, and it would be the beginning of an investigation that would extend into years and stretch over several states. Chad Daybell gave Alex that patriarchal blessing that we mentioned earlier a few weeks before Alex's death. Chad telling Alex in this blessing that Alex had accomplished many tasks already and that Alex would know when it was time to go to the other side. Just the second coming approaches, you will know when it's time to move to the other side.

This body that has served you well laid out one day and you'll pass your spirit will leave this body and you'll be greeted wholeheartedly and welcomed by the Savior himself. And the day Alex died, Chad gave Alex another blessing over the phone from Hawaii. We do not know what Chad said in that blessing, but Alex passed a few hours later. Despite the odd circumstances and suspicion surrounding Alex's passing, his death was deemed, are you ready for this? Natural. A pulmonary embolism or lung clot. The trials that will be held in Phoenix, Arizona, this is.

spring 2025 at the Maricopa County Courthouse, Lori will once again face judge and jurors, just as she did in 2023. But this time, this time, Lori is already a convicted murderer. She is already convicted of killing JJ, Tiley, and Tammy. She is serving already three consecutive life sentences in Idaho for their murders, as well as financial crimes. Lori continued to collect social security checks for her children after they were killed. But this time, Lori faces charges of killing her husband Charles Vallow, Charles, the man who sounded the alarm, the man who sought help for his wife and kids, the man who should have been listened to. And if he had been listened to, I believe lives could have been saved.

It is time for justice for Charles. But rather than take a plea deal, Lori has been preparing for her defense ever since her 2023 trial concluded. Jesus knows me and Jesus understands me. I mourn with all of you who mourn my children and Tammy. Jesus Christ knows the truth of what happened here. Jesus Christ knows that no one was murdered in this case. This time, Lord Lori has asked the court to represent herself, meaning she will be her own lawyer, questioning her own witnesses, witnesses like Kay Woodcock and Melanie Gibb and her only surviving child, Colby Ryan. After the murder trial for Charles Vallo concludes, there will be another trial

in the same Arizona courthouse, this time for the attempted killing of Brandon Boudreau, her ex-nephew-in-law, who missed death by inches. and Brandon will have to face Lori as she plans to continue to defend herself in both upcoming trials. I feel like the state is trying to say, okay, if you want your speedy trial, guess what? We're not going to let you defend yourself. Guess what? You can't have any experts. And guess what else?

You can't have any witnesses. You can't have anybody speak in your behalf. So good luck. Have a nice day. Lori has made it clear in her two interviews from prison, one with her surviving and Colby and another with Dateline's Keith Morrison. that she is innocent. What to make of Lori? Forensic psychologists, Dr. John Matthias,

along with his wife, Lauren, host the Hidden True Crime podcast and have covered the case from the start. She's created this fantasy world and she lives in that world and it's impenetrable. If you're in that world, you can't see out of it. So you think that's reality.

So when a cop says, this is not about, you know, gods and goddesses or the second coming or whatever it is, it's about sex and money and control. Sex power money. Yeah, I mean, that might have been it, but to her, not at all. No, she's created this fantasy world that is so all-encompassing that I just think she's incapable of existing outside of that world.

But soon, Lori will have to enter a whole new world for her upcoming trial. I have two motions that I'd like to file at the court today. Right. Why would she do such a thing, act as her own attorney? After all, she's already doing life without parole in Idaho. For a normal person, you'd expect them to take some type of a plea deal so that they're not going to waste their time, right, on this stage, this worldwide stage with this case. Not only does she not take the plea deal, but by representing herself, she's the center

of the entire circus. So, I mean, this is someone who clearly... wants to be on stage and wants the limelight. I will be there every step of the way, attending court daily. Day one of jury selection for the Lori Daybell trial. We call her Lori Daybell now, the defendant formerly known as Lori Valo. Now Lori Daybell, I am in Phoenix, Arizona. This is trial number two for the Doomsday Mother.

And I am here in Phoenix. I am bringing everyone the very latest recaps of each day in court. Hit subscribe, hit notifications, and join with us. May justice be served. Most people don't realize how much their personal information is being bought and sold every day. Data brokers are making billions, pulling details about you from public records and the internet, and then packaging and selling it, usually without your consent. That's how your information lands in the hands of scammers, spammers, even stalkers.

It's why you get endless robocalls and why ads seem to follow you everywhere. That's where ORA comes in. ORA actively removes your data from broker's sites and keeps it off. They also instantly alert you if your information shows up in a breach or on the dark web. But ORA goes beyond data protection. With one app, you get a VPN, antivirus, password manager, spam call protection, dark web monitoring, and even up to $5 million in identity theft insurance, all backed by 24-7 U.S.-based fraud support.

Other companies might sell just credit monitoring, or just a VPN. ORA gives you all of it, together, at the same price. price competitors charge for just one service. Start your free trial today atora.com slash remove. Protect yourself now atora.com slash remove.