Hidden True Crime - Lori Wants Her Own Extraction of Charles' Phone?! | Full Hearing Recap

Episode Date: March 19, 2025

This week, Lauren gives you the latest in the ongoing Lori Daybell saga after a morning in the courtroom on March 18th, 2025. It's the last hearing before jury selection begins on March 31, 2025. Lauren will be in the courtroom bringing you the latest from the trial, so hit subscribe and follow along. About Hidden True Crime: What started as a simple conversation at their dinner table became a captivating podcast. Join the dynamic duo of Dr. John Matthias, a criminal psychologist, and Lauren Matthias, an investigative journalist, as they delve into the psychological facets of unthinkable crimes every week. Their unique perspectives and in-depth analysis offer a fresh take on true crime storytelling. Thank you for your support through sponsorships, subscribing, listening, and becoming a Patreon member at Patreon.com/HiddenTrueCrime Our Sponsors:* Check out Acorns: https://acorns.com/HIDDENTRUECRIME* Check out Acorns: https://acorns.com/HIDDENTRUECRIME* Check out Armoire and use my code HIDDENTRUECRIME for a great deal: https://www.armoire.style* Check out Effecty and use my code HIDDENTRUECRIME for a great deal: https://www.effecty.com* Check out Happy Mammoth and use my code HIDDENTRUECRIME for a great deal: https://happymammoth.comSupport this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/hidden-a-true-crime-podcast1836/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Lori Daybell, the defendant, formerly known as Lori Vallow, had a final hearing today, March 18, 2025, before she stands trial for murdering her husband, Charles Vallow in July of 2019. And it was quite the hearing. We will go over everything that happened. Consider this your hearing and soon-to-be trial recap central. And a little background for those who want to watch the doomsday mother defend herself as her own attorney, but do need to catch. up on this case, it's true that Lori has already had a trial in Idaho. Back then, she was considered Lori Valo and she was convicted of killing her two young children, seven-year-old JJ Valo and 16-year-old Tyler Ryan, as well as convicted of killing Tammy Daybell. Tammy was the wife of Chad Daybell, and after Tammy was killed, Lori quickly married Chad. Chad Daibel is Lori's fifth and current husband, hence her desire to now be known as Lori Daybell this time around.

Chad is on death row for the same three murders, JJ, Tiley, and Tammy, and Lori is serving three consecutive life sentences. But before moving to Idaho and killing three innocent people in late 2019, including her children, law enforcement say that Lori first murdered her husband Charles Vallow in Arizona on July 11, 2019, after declaring him a zombie. And that is what this upcoming trial is about justice for Charles Vallow. And if three life sentences isn't enough for Lori to take a plea deal, she's not only moving forward with a trial, she has chosen to represent herself. So here we are. And let's get to this hearing today. It started off with Maricopa County, Arizona Judge Breske, asking both the state and Lori, if they were okay with a jury questionnaire that will be sent out in the next week.

And if Lori was specifically okay if JJ and Tiley, her children's names, would be in the questionnaire, because those names will be mentioned in court during the trial. Any objection to listing Tiley and JJ because they will be mentioned? No. Okay. All right. The state has 22 witnesses listed for trial. And when the judge asked if they felt he had allotted enough time for jury selection,

the state actually had concerns and thought maybe more time was needed to select a jury. Lori disagreed. Do you really think we need to screen that far out? I know you're being overly cautious. I think especially given that I'm not positive we'll pick a jury in that first week. I think we should, Your Honor. All right. Defense have any comment on how we're screened through May 15?

I think it's plenty of time, Your Honor, myself. I'll just reiterate on April 1, 1 on the first we will meet again, and for the rest of that week, we'll likely be meeting at 10.30 and continuing with jury selection every day until we get enough jurors. Hopefully we get enough the first week. If we have to, we'll go into the second week. Next on the judge's list was a notice of compliance. In other words, Lori has requested a video from the state that she says isn't in her discovery. The video in question is from the Gilbert Police Department. And now there has been a lot of question about what video Lori is wanting, what video she's claiming she's missing. But what was stated in her last hearing last week and I was in the courtroom during this moment, it was explained that the video was filmed on the 31st that I had to do with me. Melanie Gibb, Lori Valo, and Tiley Ryan, and that while Lori has the body cam footage of this day, she claims there is another video taken from the ceiling, like an interrogation video. Take a listen to how she explains the video last week.

She's requesting a video interview from the 31st. Those are on body cam and were turned over to the defense. I am not sure what the defendant is. Who was the person being interviewed, and you said the two-hour interrogation that Gilbert released? So it's myself and my daughter, Tiley Ryan, and Melanie Gibb. And is that in an interrogation type room? Yeah, it was at the Gilbert Police Station,

and I didn't realize we were being filmed that whole time. I didn't know we were being filmed, but we were being filmed in that room. And are you familiar with a video in a video, in a room? Yes, that's what we have disclosed. It's an interview of it is and you're saying you don't have it. Her daughter and another. And you're saying you haven't gotten that? They have given four about 12-minute body cam videos of the policemen body cams that were in the room with us and they go in and out of the room at different times. So there's different body cams. They're all mixed up. It's not the

full entire one and the full entire, my understanding is that the full entire two our interrogation room video from the ceiling is available online, but I don't have it in discovery. So in other words, the video Lori has requested is from January 31st, 2019, six months before Charles's murder. It was that date that Lori visited the Gilbert police with her daughter, Tiley, and her friend Melanie Gibb, after Charles requested a mental wellness examination for Lori. and Lori came to the police department while claiming that Charles had stolen her purse and was cheating on her. So yesterday, I got an argument with my husband on the phone

and he was in Texas working and I found some stuff that he'd been doing so he was really defensive. And so I took the kids, we spent the night in a hotel because I knew he was coming home. And so this morning when I took my son to school, when I went into the school to take him into school,

he was waiting somewhere and, like, stole my purse out of the car, my whaler, so my phone, my wallet, my money, my everything was in there. He was asking, like, what's got into her? Like, where is she? Where is she? Of course, I didn't say where she was. I didn't know where she was. I didn't tell anybody.

She was actually. I thought it was safer for everybody to not come. You just basically wanted me to take a side, I think, and just, you know, how crazy I was and stuff like that. During this visit to the police department in January of 2019, police actually seemed to leave Lori over Charles. It was a sad foreshadowing of what was to come. So there's all stems from him cheating and you finding out about it. Okay. And just so I'm clear, she didn't threaten him, the children or herself in that conversation? No, everything was subjective. She did use the word destroy. She said, I will destroy you. But it was done in a very subjective way that it couldn't

necessarily come across as a direct threat to him or the children. or herself. Okay. Like it could have been destroy his reputation or something less literal? His spirit for all we know, you know, his spirit powers or something, you know, it's just very non-specific. Okay. When she was speaking, and I know you said it was short, did she seem coherent or was she...

She seemed coherent, but her statements were, strangely irrational. She was accusing it of something but would not tell him what it was. She seemed to indicate, again, in a somewhat oblique way that he wasn't who he said he was, that he was. Okay. But she sounded very lucid as she was speaking. Okay. All right, sir, I think that's all. I really appreciate your time.

I know this is an awkward position for you to be in. Well, Lori wants this video, not the body cam footage that we've all seen, but an alleged ceiling camera that captured the full two hours. she claims this video is on YouTube or online and that she has been shown this video. The defense had filed a motion for the state to disclose that and then had brought up again on the 11th that the state had not disclosed it, that there was some YouTube video of that. I have looked for said YouTube video. I have gone through the police report.

I don't know what video she's discussing, but we're not aware of any video that hasn't been disclosed. So I'm just providing notice that disclosure is complete as to that police report that is peripherally relevant. All right. Any comment on that? Yes, Your Honor. I, for clarity, is the state proposing that there is no video or that they don't have to give it to me because it's not attached to that DR number? I think what she said was she's not aware of what video you referenced. So as far as her knowledge, She doesn't have it and doesn't know about it. So I should go directly to Gilbert Police Department to get it? Well, last time you're in court, you said your investigator or someone told you about it.

A mitigator. A mitigator. If they have that link, why don't they just send it to the state and that may help the state determine if that's something they've already disclosed? I will tell you why they won't because that is my former team and they will not do anything to help my investigator. my paralegal they won't give us any information that they found they won't talk to us at all because apparently there was a conflict so they will not help us they will not send us anything they will not email us anything they will not answer anything that we asked them to so that has been the response from my former defense team that's where we are all right do you know and maybe your advisory councils can speak to this did they turn over a file to you or did you have to start from scratch No. From what I understand, all they turned over was the 22 terabyte hard drive, and that is it. 22 terabytes. Do you know how much that is 22 terabytes? It could store 293 million emails with attachments, or it would be enough to store about 4.4 million photos, or it could store around 5.5 million songs.

That is a lot of discovery. In 2021, there was a massive, evidence drop from both Chandler, Arizona and the Gilbert, Arizona police departments, and that all of those videos ended up online. I haven't been able to find any videos of this visit to the Gilbert Police Department taken from any cameras that are on the ceiling or any cameras that aren't body cam. I even requested a lot of our listeners to send it to me if they find it. And many of you responded, many of you sent some great videos and thoughts about this video, But none of the videos I have seen so far are from this date and from an interrogation room type of camera. I do hope that Lori finds this video and that we discover in trial why she deemed this video so important.

Of course, 22 terabytes of discovery is a lot to comb through. Next on the agenda was that the defendants, Lori's defense investigator, Jeff White, who was sitting next to Lori, during this hearing had sent over a list of defense witnesses and their addresses. Last night, he said this last night. And he would like to set up interviews with all of these witnesses. And that's not all. Again, last night at like 10.30 at night, defense investigator emailed the state and indicated that the defense expert would need to or wanted to obtain the physical laptops

and cell phones that the police had impounded so that he could then review them do his own cell right or extractions. So obviously the expert hasn't even begun work, let alone. They've also requested all impounded items from law enforcement. I'm unclear if they're asking for ones that were impounded in Idaho as part of their investigation or just the ones here, the statements from the investigator appears to be all of them, which would mean the state would have to request Idaho to send those to the investigator. So again, given all of those issues, I don't see how that it would be possible for the state to provide that to the expert prior to this trial beginning.

let alone to get a report or an opinion prior to this trial beginning. So admittedly, this is surprising to me. The trial is just days away. And it sounds like the defense wants to start collecting cell phones and laptops to do their own cell bright extractions. And so that's not a lot of time to do this. Again, we're starting this trial in just days now. So then Jeff White, the investigator, he starts apologizing and starts to explain himself and explained that he was just trying to verify some phone numbers.

And as he's starting to apologize, Lori interrupt. Then claims the state has interviewed everyone, all of the witnesses that she has, except for one, Nate Eaton. Nate is a reporter, a journalist. This is quite a twist. I'm trying to verify the phone numbers to be correct. I do have a few of them, but some of them, I'm trying to make sure that this is the correct numbers.

Okay. I did the searches for them. I have to apologize. I left yesterday and for some odd reason, my email just did not go through. So your honor, my understanding is that the state has interviewed every single person on my witness list previously. That's what I got the people from from the interviews that they had from the state previously. So I understand that they can, they're allowed to do another interview of them, but they have interviews of every single person that is on my list with the exception of one. Which is who? Which is Nate Eaton.

So as a threshold question, your assertion is that all these people that you've listed in your notices have relevant information for trial. Correct. And do you know if the police have interviewed these people? Well, Your Honor, the first listed person is a reporter. So I'm not really sure the relevance of a reporter. He's the only one that hasn't been. So that's what I stated. When making financial decisions, one of the most important things to me is knowing exactly where my money is going when it comes to saving and investing. And Acorns allows me to have that clarity. Acorns makes it easy to start that process. You don't need a lot of money or expertise to invest with Acorns. In fact, you can get started with just your spare change. Acorns recommends an expert built portfolio that fits you and your money goals, then automatically invest your money for you. Getting set up with Acorns is something you can do in as a little as five minutes, meaning you aren't spending hours trying to figure out how to invest. Sign up now and join over 13 million all-time customers who have already saved and invested over $22 billion with Acorns. Head to Acorns.com slash Hidden True Crime or download the Acorns app to get started. Paid non-client endorsement. Compensation provides incentive to positively promote Acorns. Investing involves risk. Acorn advisors, LLC, and SEC registered investment advisor. A few

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Judge Boreski sort of says what I was thinking during all of this. in order for him to do the work that he's requesting getting copies of a laptop or a cell phone or whatever the case may be that's going to take him time to extract and analyze and then prepare a report months maybe i understand that your honor and i'm hoping he can do it in an expedited manner i i requested him from op ds on january 14th he got approved on march 7th well from op ds you're the one pressing for your speedy trial so you kind of have to make a decision on we're set for trial. You want to go to trial or you want to have him do that work that you want? Because I don't think both are going to happen.

Even if you got the laptops today, generally those types of things can take weeks, even months to analyze and prepare a report on. I understand that. Lori then makes it clear she wants one thing and one thing only. Charles's phone and an extraction of Charles's phone, but her own, not what's in the discovery. Specifically, what are you requesting?

Because the state wasn't clear whether you were requesting items here impounded by a particular police department or items that may be impounded in Idaho. Well, I'm sure that my investigator would like to have all of those things done. And I realize that we're on a time constraint. And I would be only concerned with one item, which is at Chandler Police Department, which was Charles, my husband's phone. Charles Vallow's phone. And I would like a copy of the extraction that they took from it, the digital. forensic extraction from Chandler police could be given to him immediately. That would be very helpful. Judge Bureski makes a solid point. Lori should have again this info in the discovery. Wasn't that

already disclosed? Yes, Your Honor. Was that part of the initial terabyte? Yes. Excuse me. Jeff White, Lori's investigator, complains that he can't give away his 22 terabyte hard drive and the judge makes yet another solid. point. Excuse me. Yeah, um, I everything that I have is on a 22 terabyte. So hard drive. So if I give that away, I can't do my work. Well, you can't you make copies of files out? I need to terabytes. I understand that. Okay. So what's your proposal? I'll take it up. I mean, if you have all that information in a file, I'm not saying you have to copy. be the whole 22 terabytes, but there's a file in there somewhere that's the cell bright extraction already for that requested item that's been in defense possession for however

long now. So Judge Breske sort of gives Lori the either or scenario. You know, you could even call this an ultimatum. Either waive her right to a speedy trial to start the venture of her own cell phone extractions or move forward with trial. If he's not done with that information you want, are you still wanting to proceed to trial on the at the end of this month? Yes, Your Honor.

Okay. Again, this is one of those things where you have to weigh your options on whether it's worth it to get a continuance so you can have your defense, do your, the work that you want done on your defense. But if you're telling me you don't want to do that. I would like to do that, but my situation in my housing department, It precludes me from doing that.

From asking for a continuance? No, from getting things done in an effective and quick manner. Okay. All right. Well, so you're telling me you don't want a continuance, because any information you at this point could be precluded as being untimely. I understand that is the rule, and I understand how unfair and prejudicial that would be to me.

And then what we have all been wondering, or I guess I should say what I've been wondering, what I just assume or hope maybe anyone else might also be wondering, will Lori DeBell testify at her own trial? We certainly got a possible yes today after the state decided to bring up this possibility. What else do we need to address today then? The only other motion that we did not address last week was the state 609 motion. I presume the defendant will likely testify, so I don't know if we wanted to address that now.

Are you prepared to address that now? No. I generally will, I guess I'll advise the defendant now that if you choose to testify, it's likely that the jury would hear about the convictions. But at your request, they could be sanitized, meaning that they would only hear about the fact that you have convictions as opposed to what the nature of the conviction are, but that would be up to you whether you want that information out or not. then the jury would receive a limiting instruction that the existence of those convictions is only to be used for the purposes of determining credibility.

So you should be aware of that when you make a decision on whether you want to testify or not. Oh, if you do want to testify, it will be question and answer, meaning you need to write out all your questions that you want to be asked and have one of your advisory councils ask those questions to you when you're on the witness stand. Right. Okay. So you can't take the witness stand and just give a narrative. It'll be question and answer. So am I supposed to reply to the 609? Is that what you're saying?

And I'm going to be sanitized if I want that. We can talk about that when we actually have a 609 hearing. But yeah, you can make that request or really. You don't have to do a written response. We then learned during this hearing about how Lori will manage questioning her witnesses in making her opening and closing which included the judge mentioning a new courtroom, actually, which is a relief to me since the current courtroom only has 36 seats. And I was shocked last week when I heard this might be the courtroom for trial.

But today we heard otherwise it's going to be a new courtroom. I indicated last time for your opening statement and closing argument and questioning witnesses that you'll pretty much be limited to the podium. We'll be in a different courtroom apparently for trial. but it'll be set up very similarly. Either your investigator or one of your advisory councils will approach witnesses with exhibits if you have to show a witness and exhibit. So I'll have to do the same limitations on the state. The state would be confined pretty much to the area of the podium, and the state would have someone assist in approaching witnesses with exhibits and that sort of thing.

The hearing ends with Lori once again bringing up the video that no one can find as well as an attempt to snag Charles's cell phone from the Chandler Police Department once again. So I'm clear where we stand with the video that I requested. The state says they don't know what video you're talking about. They've disclosed everything they have. So I'm going to make an order to your prior team to give you. whatever that is, if you have a link in that prior, in that information, you can forward it to the state so the state can see if that's something they've already disclosed or if that's something Gilbert didn't give them or on the other hand, since it was told you second hand or showed you second hand, whether it's something different than what you thought it was. I don't know. So I'll make an order that they hand over all those things to you so maybe you can figure that out. But at this point, the state says they've just, they've disclosed everything that they have and everything that they're aware of. And in that order, they'll give it to my advisory council.

Who do you want me to, I was going to say give it to your advisory council. Do you want a more narrowed order? Maybe any mitigation work that was collected or or do you want a broad order that's basically everything in their position? Well, it would be nice if they could turn over everything in their possession that we worked on. I was just thinking it would be easier for you maybe to find that needle in a hay stack if it was a more narrow order. Well, she knows what the link is and she could just give it to us and we asked for her to do that. And what's that? The attorney said, no, she can't do that. And do we need an order, Your Honor, to pick up my husband's phone at Chandler Police so that Lonnie can do the extraction? Well, you already have that extraction in your discovery.

What's the state's position on Lonnie Dworkin meeting someone at, you said, Chandlerk. Senator right. Chairler Police Department to do another extraction. Your Honor, obviously the state and defense have always had stipulations so that should something happen to the device while it's in the possession of Mr. Dorkin, that there are now no issues with chain of custody or anything else. So the state would have to draw up a release, have that scheduled on who it's going to be picking it up, have the defendant sign that release indicating that she understands it should anything

happen to that that she waives those rights to claim those things. So I think what I was asking was, does Mr. Dwork and have the ability to just do the extraction on site? On site where? At Chandler? At Chandler. I don't think the police departments allow anyone to go in there and conduct their work in the police department.

Okay. All right. So to maintain the chain of custody. the state can draw up an agreement. And if the defendant signs that agreement, then Mr. Dworkin could pick up that phone. That's perfect. Logistically, how's that going to happen? She's going to forward that to your investigator, and I guess he'll have to come down and have you sign it. Okay. All right. Be at recess. Hidden true crime will be your trial central, starting with jury selection. I will be in the courtroom every day.

So hit subscribe, hit notifications, and get ready. Because I think it's clear this is going to be a pretty wild ride with Lori Daybell at the helm. And for Charles Vallow, the man who sounded the alarm, who did his best to get help to save lives had he been listened to, may justice be served. Check engine light on. Take the guesswork out of your check engine light with O'Reilly Veriscan. It's free. Ask for O'Reilly Veriscan today.