Hidden True Crime - Missing FLDS Kids, & A Chilling Revelation From Warren Jeffs | Legendary Journalist Sounds Alarm

Episode Date: June 28, 2025

They were supposed to be safe. But now, two former FLDS kids are gone—and the voices of Warren Jeffs and Samuel Bateman still echo through the desert. Award-winning journalist Mike Watkiss joins us for a haunting look inside the FLDS stronghold he’s spent decades exposing. He shares chilling insights into Jeffs’ enduring power, Bateman’s dangerous rise, and the broken system that keeps letting this happen. About Hidden True Crime: What started as a simple conversation at their dinner table became a captivating podcast. Join the dynamic duo of Dr. John Matthias, a criminal psychologist, and Lauren Matthias, an investigative journalist, as they delve into the psychological facets of unthinkable crimes every week. Their unique perspectives and in-depth analysis offer a fresh take on true crime storytelling. Thank you for your support through sponsorships, subscribing, listening, and becoming a Patreon member at ⁠Patreon.com/HiddenTrueCrime⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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We're going to hit. Zootopia 2. Now available on Disney Plus rated PG. Hello, Hidden Jems. I am with veteran journalist Mike Watkins. Mike and I actually just spend a lot of time together. the past few months, actually, for multiple trials of Lori Balladab. We would sit there and all of us got to know each other pretty well because we'd have to sit in line for hours.

And then we'd have to leave and we go to lunch. We have to sit in line again. And we got to talking and we know similar people in this industry. We've covered some similar stories. In particular, stories covering the FLDS church and area referred to a short creek, also known as the Twin Cities, Hilldale, Utah, and Colorado City. We're going to get into a lot of Mike Watkins' work here because it's really important to a story we're about to try to uncover and figure out.

I have questions for Mike today about a recent Amber Alert and two missing children out of Idaho. Before we get to that, I just want to let all of you know. Many of you don't know this, but I was also a broadcast reporter for about 10, years local and I was the correspondent in Hilldale in Colorado City. That is often known as the area where the prophet Warren Jeth ruled and reigned. I was after, I was after Warren Jess was there. Warren Jets was convicted at that time and I was there as Donya Jassett became the first female mayor and I reported on that race and those elections and as Short Creek sort of changed a lot.

where Mike, a lot. You were a reporter when it came to Warren Jeffs. And you have been a reporter for a lot of the tragedy and mayhem and including the most recent case of Sam Bateman. Right. A horrific story that I think the public is still learning about, still unraveling. He was recently sentenced. Does that write in Phoenix?

And you covered that out of retirement? You came out of retirement for this story. Can you just tell us about that before we jump into this current story? Absolutely. It's great to see you again. And I want to tell you how much I enjoyed chatting with you and your producer, Grayson, during the Daybell trial. And I learned so much about the new form of media. Yeah, we're diving into this war in Jeff's matter that has been the subject of most of my 45-year career followed this story for many years. And we have suddenly this eruption of these two missing children, which brings back a story that my daughter and I have been covering. for several years. But, you know, the Bateman case has brought this back into high profile, and they're really, in the world of the FLDS, having sort of as many years as I've been covering, I sort of look at it as a historical perspective. And none of these events are isolated. And the two missing children that are, have been absconded with now in this most current story,

are really part of a much larger story that goes on. It's a nationwide story. now the FLDS are flung all over the map at this point there is no central place of operation like hilldale and colorado city or that compound down in texas so they're scattered to the wind and they're gathering up these children and these two kids are the latest victims and what i think is a very well orchestrated conspiracy to commit uh kidnapping and trafficking orchestrated by woman jeffs and these these kids are not one-offs this is they're part of of a much larger pattern of kids going missing. And we can talk about the dynamics that have led to all of this,

but just a lot going on. The Sam Bateman matter took up sort of all the oxygen in this story for the last couple of years. Horrific story. My daughter and I were in there every day, and it was some of the most gut-wrenching, to hear the young women who were victimized by Bateman get on the stand and reclaim their lives

and confront this matter. It bring me to tears now. You know, it was a remarkable experience. But I think in both the history of the missing kids and in the Bateman case, for the most part, law enforcement, it is a study of failure on the part of law enforcement. Having done it for as long as I have, the one thing I would like to just share this, let's learn from our mistakes and do better in the future. And let's not lose this sight.

It is about the children and the women who are being abused. And nothing else matters. And there needs to be a sense of urgency in dealing with these cases. So let's go over this too really quickly. And by the way, with your daughter, and I appreciate that so much that your daughter has your journalistic, you know, desires and you guys are doing this together over on the YouTube channel, Story Hustler. He's a good kid. Yeah, thank you. Yeah, it's impressive.

You two are doing this together. The children you're referring to that are currently missing are Rochelle Fisher, who's 15, and Alan Fisher, who is 13 years old. their mother, Elizabeth Roundy, left the faith or community, which isn't always Short Creek. It's not always Short Creek anymore either. There is a variety of communities now. But she left or

you say kicked out. Sometimes I hear left. Sometimes I kicked out. That's why I have you as an expert. She's no longer a part of this community. Right. And there was an Amber Alert. You know, I noticed it.

A lot of people wrote me about this. We've reached out to everyone. the nonprofit that said that there was a new revelation by Warren Jeffs, although it was a 2022 revelation. We reached out to them. We saw police said that they left on their own will. Like we're hearing a lot of different things that this revelation is a concern that it would mean almost like a Lori Valoisque danger to these children,

which is frightening to think about. Can you, you know, so I'm hearing a lot. And then again, please say, no, they left willing. the other people saying to me that they left to be with their other family and they're okay. Help us understand to people that might not even understand even the basics of what's happening, what the urgency is and where these children might be and what the concern is. Please are involved. Yeah, and let me just say just to give a shout out to Elizabeth Roundy, the mother of the center of this.

She's a friend of ours and has been on our show. She's an extraordinary, strong, brave woman. And really, in the long tradition of this story, of the brave women who have gotten out and fought for their children and fought for their little brothers and sisters. She is one of many, and it is primarily women who have made the real changes in this story throughout. But the bottom line is, I think Elizabeth is like many people of her age

and the generations now that I'm going to get into weeds, and I hope that if I start rambling, But, you know, there has been a real... Get into the weeds and then I'll get into the nitty-gritty after. I think I have some serious questions for you. So I would prefer you get into the weeds. Get into the weeds and the... Yeah, I think you need to look at all of this

is sort of the continuum of the FLDS history and explaining where they are today. Warren sees his, gets power in, you know, at the turn of the century. He's in trouble with the law after stories we'd done, an activist raising hell. He gets in trouble, gets on the FBI's and also on the list, and gets busted, 2006, pulled over outside. of Vegas. He's been in the can now. He's been incarcerated for nearly 20 years.

Exactly. During that time, Mr. Jeff has just gone out of his way to just issue proclamation, revelation, dictate to his followers, all of them punitive, telling them what they need to do. And after he's now locked up in Texas, busted in 2006, incarcerated in Texas 2011. So again, he's been bouncing off a concrete cell wall. for the last 20 years and he wasn't the most stable guy going in. So the bottom line is that while Warren, and people will find this hard to believe, this is what really set all of this in motion, with Sam Baveman and these missing children. Warren issued a revelation, a proclamation many years ago saying there were no more marriages.

They're not going to have sex. They're not going to have children. This is a community where all the women want children, the men, you know, family is so. And believe it or not, this is not, this is not. this one guy down in a prison cell in Texas issues this dictate, no more sex, and the entire community follow. I mean, most people wouldn't believe that. Hundreds of people, men were told they could no longer reside under the same roof as their families. Warren's most insidious action during his reign of terror has been the destruction

of the families. He's just torn them asunder. Now he's telling people can't have sex. and men are dis-separated from their families. Hundreds of adults dislodged from their family told to go, repent from afar. You're exiled for using birth control, for having a miscarriage, for whatever other reason that you fall out of favor with. Parents literally picked up and left their children. The children, during those years the parents were away, were in basically these gulags gulags gulags gulags being indoctrinated against their parents.

And when many of these parents finally, after years, of repenting from afar and saying, hell with this, we're going to go back and get our kids. They go back and their kids are now poisoned against them. They fought to get them back. And this is what happened to Elizabeth Roundy. She was a, you know, she's a lovely lady, just as nice as you can believe. But she read a foul of her husband and Jeff's and company, and they exiled her. She now, believe it or not, people did this. They just walked away from their family thinking If I go repent, they'll let me back. Elizabeth, like a lot of people who got set away, realized this is ridiculous.

Went back and got full custody of her children. But again, those children had been in the custody of FLDS caretakers, and they were all poisoned against her. One of these young women left a couple of years ago. It was one of the first children that went missing in the wake of Warren's revelation. All this to say, you know, Warren puts this moratorium on sex. He puts, it doesn't allow families, he rips them all apart. And then you have a guy like Sam Bateman who is sort of an inevitable outshund.

He wasn't going to, you can't put a lid on sexual activity and family relationships. And Warren did for nearly 10 years. And guys like Sam Bateman and another man named Maroni Johnson went rope and started gathering up wives. It was a shockwave through the FLDS community. And I think as a direct response to that challenge. to his authority, Warren now issues this new revelation a couple of years ago, we're going to resume marriages, gather up the children. So all of these families that have fought to get their children out are now having people still in the incident, literally conspiring to pull their kids back in, because Warren's going to start doing marriages again.

And to do marriages again, you have to have a centralized location where you can put a lot of girls together to give them to the men. And that's sort of set up the dynamics of the last 20 years. Sam Bateman was an inevitable offshoot of Warren's dictates against any marriage. And then Warren reacted to Sam going rogue by issuing this edict, gather up the children. And so none of this happens in a vacuum. Okay, right, right. None of this happens in a vacuum.

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You know, I have to be honest, maybe I need to lay out when I was a reporter in Short Creek. Warren Jeffs had been arrested and convicted, and while some, many of the FLDS community still considered him a profit, he didn't have a strong hold on the community. I reported on walls being tumbling down. I reported on the first public school opening in Short Creek. A remarkable development. That has been amazing.

Yeah, that was there for the first public school of someone saying, you know, no one in my family for generations has ever gone to school and I'm going to be the first. And it was someone that was, it was a young woman who was F, LDS and about to go to school and she wanted to go to college. I was there when FLDS women became certified victims advocates and they were taught to look for signs of sex abuse. I reported on that story.

I was there for an opening of a store. I became friends with many that are FLDS. So I think this is important to share because I'm trying to understand you a reporter before and after. This is like sort of the center. I was there when Donya Jessup was. elected the first. Yeah, we've interviewed her. She's a female mayor.

Wonderful person. Yeah, wonderful person. Wonderful. Someone that left the FLDS face. And, you know, a lot of it was Warren Jeff's gone. We're trying to move on. And yet here comes Sam Bateman. So then I leave. I go doing my own thing. I start hitting two crime. I'm done. And then in 2019, this is when the Sam Bateman stuff starts happening after.

So when you say stuff doesn't happen in a vacuum. And honestly, I guess I'm just saying this too because like I had a lot of hope for the FLDS community moving forward. I have friends that are FLDS. I thought this is going to get better. So when you say things don't happen in a vacuum, you're saying, look, here we are again and again and again. Sam Bateman's come along. He was a supporter of Warren Jeff's too. He was there, wasn't he, at Warren Jeff's trial? Yeah. He comes and it's It's almost like a copycat of Warren Jeffs, as I've read about it and seen, but even worse, even worse. Like, if people don't understand what is happening with the recent conviction sentencing of Samuel Bainman, it is, it is horrific, as you say.

So when you say it doesn't happen in a vacuum, talk to me a little bit more like about that because, like I said, I'm coming from this place of like, but, but, but. And you're saying, this is just happening again and again. and again in this community. And your friend, Elizabeth, is now part of this continuing issue. Is that a fair thing to lay out and try to help me understand this? Because I... Well, you know, again, I just really, I don't think the story has ever really changed. It's sort of men abusing women and girls under the guise of this religion. And that has really been... I try to... This story can get way too complicated with way too many personalities, but we try to just maintain our focus, focus on the victims.

and then focus on the perps and i've been chasing guys like sam baitman down for 40 years and have been part of you know telling the stories of almost every one of the significant prosecution for during that four-decade period and i you know you are absolutely correct during the 10 years that you were in colorado city that there was such just a sea change in the creek hilldale in colorado city are nothing like that anymore you've been there recently it's more like it's more like Canab or Moab or Scylla. You know, it's just now another beautifully situated red rocks little tourist town. Yeah, a place you used to not be able to go because of all the walls built. You know, it's gorgeous, right? It's at the head, it's out the foot of Zion National Park. It's beautiful

land with these walls and this isolation. And you can't go in. In fact, I worked at the Grand Canyon when I was 19 and we weren't allowed to go in. Like the change that happened. And then, right, you walk in and they've got glamping. businesses and companies. Yeah, yeah. It's changed. The town has changed and then there's a reason for that because of the stories and the pressure from the media and activists, you know, several years, just about two years

before I retired back in 2018, the federal government, U.S. attorneys took the town, the cops, everybody to court and basically took control. The feds took control of the town away. And that was, Warren being incarcerated and locked up in Texas. and then the civil rights lawsuit that doesn't get any attention, but it was as fundamental in the change of that town as anything. The, you know, U.S. attorneys went into court here at Phoenix, and during a multi-week trial just proved, basically did a roadmap of many of the stories we'd done about the abuses of the police, the abuses of the utility companies to intimidate and harass people

if they fell out of line. You know, there were dark, dark days. When you got there, the channel, I was making a sea change. And Donya Jessup, I think, is a great emblematic of that. This woman from the community is now the mayor, a mayor, you know, a woman in a position of authority. Remarkable. It knocked me over with a feather when having known the town. I never thought I'd see it. So you're right.

The town has changed. But like I say, that's not the FLDS anymore. You want to find the FLDS story. It's not in Colorado City or Hildell. It's scattered to the wind. And this isn't one of the another key factor that has happened during these last 20 years. They lost control of the town. They did people, you know, with all the coverage and Warren being tried in Utah and Texas,

they lost control of the town. Warren told his people to start to flee. They took, you know, lawsuits that allowed the apostate kids who had been lost boys who'd been kicked out to come back and claim the land. So the FLDS community abandoned for all intents and purposes under the United States. Warren's directions abandoned Colorado City in Hildale. Many of them during that period of Texas went down to the compound down there. But then Texas Rangers changed that one. They got a search warrant and went and busted the place. So there are two centers of operation, the creek and the compound in Texas, taken away from them. And so what has the FLDS community? They've scattered

to the wind. So they're throughout Idaho, where Elizabeth Roundy lips, lots of there. Throughout Utah, you know, Nevada, Arizona, and further flung now. The Canab area, as you mentioned. The Canab and then also Cedar City. Yeah, Cedar is a big area. And then there's a whole lot in Nebraska and Minnesota. And there was one man, a lot to this story, so much to unpack. But when the kids started going missing, they did track that one 12-year-old girl early on

about two years ago, was absconded by Warren Jeff's 50-year-old nephew and basically just take it across state lines and was, you know, the local law officers in Colorado, so he knew this guy had taken this 12-year-old girl and we're on the phone saying, come back peacefully and he was saying, you're going to have to send the SWAT team, a tough guy. And he's obscotted, he kidnapped a 12-year-old girl. The feds jumped in and busted him up near the Canadian border. And they brought him back to Utah and the prosecutor in Paiute County dropped the charges. And this was the one chance when they could have, you know, the system. I just, I want the system to work better.

That's what I have fought for my entire career. Act with a sense, again, a sense of urgency with these cases. And when you get a chance, and this is why, you know, how slow motion is Sam Bateman. And then they had a chance in the missing kids case to prosecute a guy and send a very loud message to the FLDS community. And they watch this stuff. They watch the media. They watch what's going on in court. least their leaders do. And they could have prosecuted this guy and send a message. If you're going to

follow Warren's edict to gather up the children and you kidnap them, we're going to bust you. They punted on it. Missed the opportunity, infuriating to me about this. And, you know, so again, all of this stuff, you know, you can't look at any of this as a one-off. These kids are missing because of Warren's revelation back at 2022 when he said, gather up the children. We focused, we got in touch with the first family who reported their daughter missing, Dan and Maxine Jessup. And we helped, with the help of an attorney in Salt Lake, we helped find this girl, but she was basically kidnapped by her older siblings. It's the exact same scenario that played out with, is playing out with Elizabeth Roundy and her children. And so, again, you've got to look at this stuff. This is not just a one-off

kidnapping in Idaho. It's not just a one-off kidnapping in Utah and some others. They're all part of this, you know, larger, and a scheme, conspiracy, orchestrated by Mr. Jeff's to get the children back together. And during that revelation, one of the ominous things that he mentioned was the, he basically sort of set in motion this five-and-a-half-year doomsday clock where everybody's going to get translated and all the faithful have to come in. And that means it translated, it means death. and a lot of people are very concerned about that. I always caution that Warren has been using the doomsday card to intimidate his followers since he started.

So that's nothing new. But I point to the fact that, again, he's now been stewing in a prison cell for 20 years. He's nearly 70 years old. I don't know how crazy he is now. And one of these times he may be for real when he talks about doomsday stuff. So you're saying, just to go back to the children really quickly,

and this revelation, you say, they're missing because of this revelation. Let me explain again. I get this article and about the Amber Alert. The police say they left voluntarily, but there's an Amber Alert. I'm sure they did. I'm sure they did. Those kids, again, have been so poisoned against their mother.

And with the help of a sister who was already out, I'm sure those kids left. But make no, if that's their excuse, these kids, a 15, 13 year old, didn't do that with a help of their 18-year-old sister. They didn't do this alone. They're now hiding somewhere. That's a conspiracy with multiple people. And it's, and it's Warren's minions who have been told we've got to get all the kids back in because we're all going to get translated. You know, and now his doomsday clock, it ends, it go, it's out in about 2007. So, you know, the clock's ticking. And, and I just, you know, these, these, they're all the same story. And they, didn't happen for just because these kids wanted out of away from a mother they didn't like.

They went because they're going back into the FLDS community because the FLDS community has been told to gather them up. And people, those kids had help getting away from their mom. What do you mean gather the children? Explain. And again, I want to point out, as you said, Warren Jeff's been behind bars for 20 years. This is a new revelation. And when we say new, We just mean not 20 years ago, but it's three years ago? 2020, I think, is when it.

Okay, so three years ago. Yeah, yeah. There was a confluence of interesting events. Netflix dropped a big documentary right at that same time, how Keep Sweet, Pray, and a Bay. I think it really reminded people. It's a very competent recap-capsulation of the last 40 years in the crimes and what braworn down.

But it sort of just comes to an abrupt end. and almost immediately as that documentary dropped, Sam Bateman succumbs out of the woodwork and reaches out to me and clearly other people. So we have this aberrant sort of wannabe prophet, and Warren issues his revelation about gather up the children. And when I say gather up the children, he realizes that by tearing families apart, kids are all now all asunder in various locations.

And that was his doing. But now because people were starting to gather up wives and gather up new followers, he realized I need to put out an edict and pull everybody back in. And I can't control the people if I'm not going to allow them to have sex and children. And so, you know, I don't think it's any more, it's as black and white as that. That's the motive here. And so Mr. Jeff's, you know, lifts his moratorium and basically says, gather up the children. Like all the children whose parents have gotten out and have gotten them out,

well other family members extended family need to reach out and pull them back in and that's what happened and after you know after the first girl that we we got involved with danine jessup the first girl that got reported missing a whole slew of other people did and and this organization it's a good organization up in salt lake city holding out help at tanya tulle you know they've gotten really in front of that and have gathered up these families and held a big news conference in Cedar City 18 months ago, nearly two years ago, and then another one, and where they brought the gig families together, and they were all parents who'd gotten out, went back, got their kids, and then suddenly the kids got pulled back in, and they were all exactly the same story.

And Elizabeth was attended those to represent for the daughter, the first daughter that went missing, Elytra. That daughter has now aged out. and she's now back in the FLDS fold, but she went back and helped get these other two kids out, and that's where we are today. And I'm so, I'm grateful that you're talking about this. From day one, when we did the first story about the first missing kid,

our point has been sound the alarm. This needs to be spoken about because this is a national, this is a conspiracy orchestrated my Mr. Jeff to kidnap and transport kids, and because they're scattered all over, it inherently means they're going to cross state lines. It's a federal matter. And the feds need to get involved with it. They sort of drop the ball in Sam Bateman's case.

I'm hoping they don't in this one and are proactive and recognize that this is a national issue, not some one-off kidnapping or kids running away in Idaho. Yeah. Well, and let me talk about this too, because this is a complicated issue. The idea that people leave, but they're leaving a family and a community.

Very difficult. Right. Like this isn't like like and a lot of people stay because then they have to leave a marriage too. And you know, and there are, I want to point. I actually know a woman who's FLDS and while that is synonymous with polygamy, she's divorced and she doesn't even have a husband. And so she wants to stay in this community because it's her home. And I know families that are very, I know families that have been very happy and seem to, you know, is very functional. So it's. Yeah. So it's complicated, right? It's like, you know, it's. It's heartbreaking to hear that someone escapes for a better life, but children might want to go back because of what call it brainwashing, call it community, call it whatever. I mean, am I wrong to say that? This is a lot more nuanced and complicated than people sometimes understand too. Like you can't just wipe out a. No, and I don't think anybody is advocating that.

But I'm talking, this is a community that has now just, you know, has shown their utter face. to a convicted pedophile, a man who raped it. I just sat in every day of the court. Right, yes. And I concur with that. I concur with you there. I hope people, I'm not being an apologist right now. I'm trying to understand what one can do, right?

How do we help? Yeah, and we've, you know, and you make a very good point. And I've known so many people. I've known hundreds of people from the community over the years, many of them are my friends and seeing them at various stages of in and out and struggling with that. It's excruciating for them. There's no question about that. But the bottom line is there are a lot of people who have gotten out and have realized that, you know, if I stay in this, it means that my daughters are going to be assigned in a marriage at a very young age. It means that my sons

are probably going to be worked like dogs from the time they can, I know, work crews involving, yeah, you know, these young workers that build. up Henderson, Nevada, and Vegas, and all of the suburbs throughout the American South Wales, many of them built by these underage labor crews of the FLDS. You know, and this, you have no choice. And one of the old advocates, one of the really noble figures, a woman named Flora Jessup, you know, used to say, it gets better one day at a time, you know, with one kid at a time. And so I think getting, you know, you don't have a hell of a lot of choice.

And it's, you can, we can, I think, sort of act as apologists for this. But the role of women and girls, I think, is, you know, to my mind, is just, is not acceptable. And, you know, this is, when you have utterly no choice and a young girl is born and your only value is to be a righteous mother of Zion and produces many children. And, you know, with that kind of mindset mojo, it's a hard. rap to get out of, but a lot of people have and have gone back to fight for. And this is the Elizabeth Rowndy in my mind, again, this is the sort of historical perspective, represents what the best part of this story. Because the best part of this story has always been brave women, as I mentioned, who have got up, stood up, got out, and fought for their children,

fought for their brothers and sisters. You know, this is the story of Flora Jessup, Penny Peterson, and the women who've made the real differences in this story over the many years. And the Wall sisters, you know, extraordinary people who are heroes. And it should be on sort of a Mount Rushmore of Arizona and Utah heroes. But and I think Elizabeth falls into that category. Here's a mom who has just so been badly mistreated. The community was very cruel to her. She gets one child absconded with.

And now she's got two more. children have scotted with and all she wanted was to give these kids a life outside that and now they're not and you can die and i'm sure the kids did leave on their own accord again because of and she uses the word brainwashing that's exactly what this is these kids have never had an opportunity here any contrary opinion they live when they're taken from their parents they're put in these sort of safe houses caretaker houses which one faithful matron you know flde s matron or guy will be at supervising 32 children and all they do is listen to Warren's singing and giving sermons all day and told that their parents are evil people and that's why they got sent away. That's been true of dozens of

families and it sets the stage for Warren to just be as cruel as can be with these folks, you know, again, who have battled to get out, want to get their kids out, and now they're being pulled back in. Yeah. You know, I think the thing that disturbs me the most and I want to go a little bit further with you about this. Again, thank you so much for being here, Mike. Again, if you understand this horrendous Warren Jeff's, right, an entire community, an entire religion, this happened to an entire religion and community that they followed this man and allowed child brides and child abuse.

And when I was there again, there was this like moment of hope, I think. and understanding and moving forward. And then Sam Bateman happens. And that was right after that moment, right? That's really difficult for me to see again. So like after the sort of moment of hope, like, okay, maybe, because again, I don't think you can eradicate a faith. You can like maybe make it healthier.

You can make it safe. Again, I know no one wants to eradicate the faith. And you know, God bless them if it brings them happiness. but when you rape little girls, when you abandon little boys, you're going to have me in your face. Yeah. No, I don't,

there's no ifs answer, buts about that. So, you know, I don't know exactly what you, the, well, let me ask you this.

I don't expect you to have the end of the LBL answer either. You're doing what you can do and you're speaking up and you're speaking out and you're investigating and you're standing up for the women and children, and that's what you should be doing. But I guess, take me through getting involved with Sam Bateman. You got a call, didn't you?

One morning, can you tell us what happened? You had gone into retirement. You had covered Warren Jeff's. And can you tell me what happened with Sam Bateman? Most people don't realize how much their personal information is being bought and sold every day. Data brokers are making billions, pulling details about you from public records and the internet, and then packaging and selling it, usually without your consent. That's how your information lands in the hands of scammers, spammers, even.

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Love you. So good, you'll want to leave a voicemail about it. Sell your car today on... Carvana. Pick up fees may apply. Yeah, I'm, you know, I retired in 2018. I wrote a book called Story Hustler, Murder, Mayhem, PTSD. And, you know, I'm a sort of PTSD doubt on too many child abuse cases.

I wanted to retire. I needed out of it. this. But again, a strange confluence of events in a short period of time. Just before Christmas in 2021, I get a phone call out of the blue. I'm retired. I don't want to go back to the Crick. I don't want to hear about any more child abuse stories. I get a phone call from this guy, and he identified. I can see by the area code. It's from the Crick. I'm thinking, I don't even want to answer this call. Rings, rings, rings. I finally pick it up, and this guy says, hi, my name is Samuel Bateman. I know that this is going to sound strange. This is Sam talking to me.

And he says, but God has revealed to me that I need to meet Mike Watkiss and the Queen of England. And now suddenly, I'm hooked. At least I, at least he's, you know, at least I'm entertained now because of the Queen of England. This guy calls me and I start engaging him because I think, okay, he's a crackpot. But I ask him, are you a follower of the FLDS? faith. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. You follow Warren. Jeff's. Oh, yeah, yeah. And I remind him, Warren put a hit out on me many years ago, me and a police officer. So I asked him, I says, why do I, why would I want to meet you? What's in it for me? I have no interest in you. And how do I know you're not going to come down and carry out Warren's little edict about

snuffing me? Oh, no, no, it's nothing like that. I just had this good feeling that God tells me that you should he goes on and on i do everything i can to sort of not want to meet him put him off and i never get back up to the creek oh well i come down to phoenix all the time it's like i can't get rid of him i now start to feel that i should get eyes on this guy because he's going to meet me whether i want to meet him or not and you know i do have this outstanding hit from war and not that i worry about that but it comes to my mind when this guy's insisting on a meeting two days after Christmas I've got my family in town I push him off I tell him I don't want to meet him two days after Christmas he's calling me again I said I'll meet me in a park not far from my house I figure that's a safe public area he pulls a gun I'm going to at least have witnesses take my son and my daughter in law with me and just shoot pictures of whatever happens here this guy's probably I'm thinking I'm going to meet this guy he has nothing you did this has nothing about anybody else so I go down and meet him and suddenly van starts pulling into the drive, the parking lot of this park in Phoenix, not far from my house. And two dozen women and

girls in the classic dress pile out of this. And I'm now mortified. This guy is every red flag. Every, you know, I can't imagine. Every guy that I've ever covered, I have never seen somebody overtly, recklessly stupid, like flaunting what is obviously criminal behavior. I'm mortified. I don't want to scare the women and girls and so I just let it play out to my son make sure you get enough video so we can give this to law enforcement uh it turns out Sam's plan for our little meeting was a little chit-chat uh my son again is shooting video my daughter-in-law shooting video and I tell them make sure you get every picture of every child every woman here because this is going to be of evidentiary value to somebody somewhere along the line because I know in my heart

this guy is a pedophile and bad things are happening to these little You know, these women are standing under a cacita at a Phoenix Park and all their dress. And what he wanted them to do was sing me songs. Lovely, beautiful singing. FLDS hymns and he just wanted to touch, you know, reach out. Sam was down flexing for me because I'm probably one of the most notorious, hated people in the FLDS folklore. And Sam, he didn't pull me out of a phone book.

I'm not some rando that he called. He came down to flex for me. I was mortified. I wanted to grab the guy by the throat and call the cops. Didn't want to scare the women and girls. They, you know, I'm stunned. We shoot this. I go around and try to get as much video as we can of all the women's faces and the kids holding little babies, girls holding babies.

These are saying, I was, you know, I'm still distraught over that moment. And then what happened in that. And I immediately went back and notified every law enforcement agency, including the FBI, that, you know, and I told the FBI, look I understand your policy you're not going to confirm or deny anything whether you're in but if you're not investigating this guy you sure as hell should be and I got pictures and video and you know and then I received you know input from people oh the FF you know the feds are on it the cops are on it you know don't do anything and I and I just regret I will regret to the day I died that I hesitated because six months I mean eight months passed

four months at four months into this after my intercounter and offering up video I went back to to Colorado City to do the story. I was going to do a story on the missing children, that path of the story in the FLDS and then Sam's offshoot and how crazy that. Again, people are cautioning me don't do a story that's so close. It wasn't close. I was misled, I think, on that. And then I again, called the FBI and said, I got this stuff for you guys. You need to take a look at it. And again, I had had a long history with the FBI when Warren Jeffs was arrested. They flew me back to Washington and gave me a big award from Robert Mueller, as a then director, as an acknowledgement of my contribution to helping law enforcement track war and down. And I thought these guys will at

least give me the time of day to talk about what my concerns are crickets. So, you know, immediately after our encounter, I contacted law enforcement. Four months in, I went up to do my own story, but then, you know, oh, we're going to come out, don't do anything. We're going to come out and see you nothing happens more and i want to put this in context the thing that i want you to remember we learned one of the most shocking things that we learned during the trial of sam's two colleagues here the bysline brothers heard about all of the sexual abuse of it it was nauseating but we also learned that sam bateman was raping two three and as many as four girls every day in this he had the women and children all the girls all separated in this house small

house with just mattresses on the beds, I mean on the floors. And Sam was raping, knowing that what was going on every day, it just eats my guts away. It did so many days past. And after the second time in the midsummer, when I went back to the FBI and said, here's my stuff, come to say, oh, yeah, we'll get somebody right out to see you. Several more weeks passed and suddenly Sam sort of self-destructs. Sam was not brought down by law enforcement or that. Sam was brought down because he's stupid and a buffoon and reckless and got pulled over at Flagstaff with a little girl's fingers sticking out of that box trailer and if a reserve Coconino County Sheriff's deputy hadn't noticed that who knows what would have happened because law enforcement showed no enthusiasm

I saw fingers poking out of the trailer with guns drawn they opened the doors finding three young girls how old are you 14 How old are you? 11? How old are you? 12? Also inside the trailer, a couch, camping chairs, and a makeshift toilet. When they tried questioning the girls, this woman in the maroon dress stepped in.

Basically telling them all. Then one of the officers noticed. A 14-year-old, she had a ring on her finger, on her ring finger. They've all kind of like hidden those. I mean, they're, we know what's going on. Please say the person driving the truck is this man, Samuel Bateman. Baitman. Court documents claim Baitman is a self-proclaimed profit, part of the polygamist group with the FLDS. Investors say Bateman has dozens of followers and more than 20 wives,

many of them underage. He's also accused of sexually abusing multiple girls trafficking them across state lines. As you can see, there's a pretty serious deal here, sir. Police tried to question him about the trailer. How many other people in truck? But Baitman refuses to answer. How many other people are in the truck? When another officer tries, Explain to me what's going on. Calm down. Baitman was eventually arrested.

Put your hands behind your back. Put your hands behind your back. After some pushback. So you're under arrest. The next day he may bail, but was arrested again on federal charges in Colorado City, Arizona at his encampment. Arizona authorities taking in eight young girls found there,

all said to be Bateman's wives. And I've been thinking about this. And I've now come to look at a guy like Sam Bateman as a school shooter. Okay. And we've learned in the tragic history of school shooters that when it starts happening, you can't sit around and wait for backup or wait for the ideal conditions to take this down. When somebody is targeting children, you need to go after them aggressively and bring them down. And nobody did that with Sam.

And he was against, we could talk about all of the red thorns. and multiple interactions with law enforcement before anything happened when nothing happened. And it should have. And so, you know, I probably sound a little, you know, upset about this and I am. I just don't sound too upset. It's upsetting. And so many years, I just wanted to work better. And it didn't, Sam was so obvious, so seeking attention, so overt in his behavior.

And it was obvious what was going on. And again, if he hadn't gotten pulled over serendipitously in Flagstaff and all the body cam video of the kids pouring out of that box trailer, law enforcement is now embarrassed at this point. This story lots of people have been telling about it is they're spilling in front of the, and then some weeks later, it wasn't until the FBI went and raided the place. Again, and he's raping two or three girls every day. So some weeks later, adds up in this context. And so, you know, I want this, I want people to learn from these stories because I think you can't. Law enforcement, the history has been sort of us exposing these guys and then waiting for the cops to catch up. And I think somebody should have more aggressively exposed to him. I should have done more than just offered my video of, and I'll regret that till the day I die.

No, this story, the story helped me understand you and your quest a little bit more. Thank you for sharing it. what you're saying is history repeats itself. What did we learn from Warren Jeffs? You know, that took Texas, right? Like the same thing, Warren Jeffs could have been stopped a lot earlier too. Sam Bateman could have been stopped a lot earlier. And there are a lot of people to think, but, you know, even me, maybe being a bit of a, but you know, I saw hope.

Yeah. I don't think your hope is misguided. I mean, again, the town's changed. The town is in a much better place. And a lot of most of those are F. ex-F-F-LDS people. I think there's great hope, you know, and let me give you the, let me give me,

and I woke, I'll lose it on this, but let me give you the greatest hope that I have seen, Elizabeth Rowdy fighting for her children. And then the young women who were the victim, the survivors of Sam Bateman, sitting in the courtroom and watching these little girls, some of them are, you know, in their early teens, and see them get on the witness stands with the maturity,

and the resolve and this understanding of themselves at seizing their power. It was remarkable. And for me, that is what continues to. Those kids are the only thing that matters. Sam Bateman is a freaking buffoon. And, you know, and again, I wish I could live that moment where I first met him over again, knowing what I've done now. But Warren's, you know, a mean-spirited, manipulative, narcissistic bastard.

And they love, you know, and the irony of this story is I frequent. notice their victims are not are not randos you know they're not victimizing you and me it's the people who are the most faithful who are their victims and the kind of power they have over them the women and you know women and girls have zero say and there's all these girls in their testimony remarkable and i want you to make the point this is what sustains me to watch these young girls seize their lives some of them just a couple of just graduated from high school they're at college they're working and all of them have understood, I'm free. And they got up on the witness stand and said this to Liddell and the Biceline brothers, Torrance, said it to Sam in their witness statements. And these are remarkable young women.

And they're the heroes of this story. And they're really the only people in the Sam Bateman matter that are heroes. Because I think everybody else who has associated this, all law enforcement and everybody else failed these young women. Yeah. Yeah. You know, I want to, I want to, and maybe maybe Mike you have another idea, but what else could you have done? You say you're going to regret this for the rest of your life. Oh, I should have grabbed. I listened to your story thinking, what could you have done? You notified FBI, you notified police.

You gave. Yeah, and I got to confess just my history with sort of, you know, plays with my head because, you know, I have realized that, first of, my presence, I think, scared people, and I didn't want to do anything to scare those women and girls in the month. But then I also, you know, it's also that in pushing to get these stories resolved, it's just, that's, I've done that for so long. And really, we've had to sort of lead law enforcement. We had to go find the bad guys, find the wrought homes, find the Orson William blacks.

These are guys that I've chased all over the country, you know, deep into Mexico. And we had to sort of expose them to get law enforcement to act, you know. And now I'm being told that law enforcement is actually being. proactive on this and being informed that, oh, hey, you don't need to. And I'm thinking, the last thing I want to do is if the feds are actually being proactive and going after Sam with all the information that's coming. The last thing I want to do is go screw that up for them. Right.

But I should have followed my instincts and just blown it out of the water when I first met him and grabbed him by the throat and called the cops. But, you know, I shoulda, would, or coulda. Even then, though, you couldn't have rated it. And I think it takes a raid. And I think that's, yeah. Yeah, you know what? And then people are going to say it was a hard case.

And I can tell you, having been around to almost every significant prosecution of FLDS, meant they're all hard cases. But sometimes the law enforcement has at a time just done remarkable work on this. I point to the Texas case as sort of illustrative. I admire something that Texas did. You know, they built that big compound there and built gates and they couldn't get on it. And as soon as they got a woman calling them, a young girl saying that I'm a victim. Texas law allows, you know, you to get a search warrant a lot easier if there's a child victim.

And the one thing, Texas was ready to go because they knew there were problems out there. When they got this call from this young woman, and I heard this woman's recordings to cops, very persuasive, very, it made sense. It turned out to be a hoax. But they went on because they were, because law enforcement has the ability in cases involving children to take much, greater latitude in getting onto property and getting search warrants. And the cops were right. Those cops acted with a sense of urgency. It turned out to be a hoax, but then they went and found the treasure trove of all the incriminating evidence, including the audio tapes of Warren Jeff's raping a 12-year-old girl, a ceremonial bed in that white temple. The jurors heard that in Texas,

and I guarantee if there weren't a bunch of Texas rangers in that core room, the jurors would have killed Warren with their bare hands. And, uh, So, you know, I pushed for Warren to be prosecuted, pushed for most of the men who have been prosecuted over the years, eight men and Kingman many years ago. And so the last thing I wanted to do is screw it up for the feds, but I think that was a bad call on my part. You brought up a couple things that make it complicated

to investigate these type of crimes. You say the victims are the most faithful. This is a religious manipulation. This is, as you say, brainwashing, a religious manipulation, parents being involved because of that manipulation. A fear of police not telling the truth. I remember interviewing Anna LeBaron, the daughter of Erbilabarine, and her explaining how when the police would show up when she was a little girl, she was taught to fear them, to not talk to them, that they wanted to hurt them. So you've got this fear of authority. You have this religious manipulation.

those are the complications that law enforcement face and investigators face when it's clear as day to all of us what's going on. You're seeing a ring on a little nine-year-old girl's ring finger, you know, out of a truck. And you know exactly what this is because Warren Justice taught us exactly what this is. And you're seeing this. But it feels like the only thing that happened is this sort of raid. But that's also a problem when children. aren't coming forward and the victims aren't coming forward and the parents aren't coming forward and the parents now have something to hide because they let their little girl.

There's no doubt about it. I mean, those are, I mean, and that. It's complicated. Nobody said, nobody said this was going to be easy. And I mean, it is as complicated and then some as you're saying. And there's no question about that. All of those factors come into bear. Yeah.

And again, the fact that this is a religion and this is a community and people don't want to leave their families. And, you know, we talk about getting out of a cult, leaving a cult. cult usually you can maybe leave a cult and meet your family somewhere. That's not always a case. I'm so grateful that you're an advocate and you're speaking up and that we're having this conversation and that you're a friend of Elizabeth. That's why I wanted to talk to you is. And I watched your interview with Elizabeth. Thank you for that. It was, it's two years ago. It helped me understand what's going on and the bigger picture. As you say, this doesn't all happen

in a vacuum. I do have one question. You know, you refer to this. Again, 2022 revelation of Warren Jeff's. Yeah. It feels like Sam Bateman sort of manipulated his followers. And it seems like it was almost like an offshoot of FLDS. He took FLDS members, but it was sort of an offshoot. Not every, not every FLDS member, but he sort of said, Warren Jeffs is no longer in charge.

Correct me if I'm wrong. You're the expert here, not me. Warren Jeffs is no longer in charge or I am. But like are other people still following Warren Jeffs? I'm a little bit confused by that aspect when it comes to this 2022 revelation that may or may not still be in play despite Warren Juff being behind bars. Well, I mean, I think there's still a lot of people very faithful to Mr. Javs. And I think there's still a handful of people faithful to Sam Bateman up in Colorado City and Hildell that I, as I understand. And, you know, again, I'm not exactly sure what.

The, it's, Sam, the conditions, and again, this is getting more nuanced, the conditions for Sam to go rogue were created by Warren because he tore apart families and now people are living. And Sam really gathered up women and girls from two families, the Johnson family and the Biceline family. Okay. Because he got the male caretakers, guys who had basically been given, they were still faithful to work. And now they were in charge of a couple of. a couple of dozen women and girls. And they got behind Sam and gave all of them to Sam. Because, you know, and what was the motive?

Well, I think at the end of the day, the men wanted new younger wives, and they couldn't take it. And now Sam is giving them an avenue to get a new family, to get a new young wife. I mean, you know, that's been the modus operandi. I have a lot of men over the years. Because, and because, again, it's sort of inherent in the mindset, these people want a profit. They're told all their lives that one man is supposed to be the mouthpiece of God and we're supposed to follow it. Warren's been locked up for 20 years. That has tattered.

There's a lot of people sort of on the fringes now, living not in Colorado City, living in small pockets where, you know, there's a caretaker man and dozens of women. Some of have no relationship to him. Those were just rife for a guy like Sam, a greedy, narcissistic, you know, perverted bastard like Sam. Sam, I'm going to go start doing marriages again. I get power. Sam was a failure as a man, as a businessman. But suddenly, you know, it's like a lot of guys, he finds religions a great way to power women and money.

And Sam Tran is the perfect example of that. You know, by the end of it, he was having one of his followers by him Bentley's and range rovers. You know, the obscenity of Sam and how overt it was. This, I get back to the red flags that this guy. That's the ultimate pimp right there, right? What else do you need? Yeah, there's a clip of video that's a documentary people shot, and it's Sam in his Bentley,

in this white leather jacket that you'd look, it looks like you'd buy in a boutique in a Vegas casino. Little Sammy driving around in his Bentley, nauseating. I mean, this, you know, this narcissistic bastard. And again, finding out having confirmed in court with the testimony of these victims, what Sam was doing every day that this was going on. It just, you know, it makes me nuts. And let's be honest, too. Again, he learned from Warren Jeff's what he could get away with.

I want to say that. He was a supporter of Warren Jeff's. No doubt. And, you know, and there's just, there's so much history involved. I interviewed Sam Bateman's father 20 years ago because he was one of the first men. He was a school teacher. And he was one of the first men to stand up and publicly speak out. against Warren Jeffs.

This is a school teacher, Sam's dad, Deloy Bavittman, and he stood in front of my camera is talking about how he was watching more and more girls disappear from his classes at younger and younger ages. This is when Warren first took power. I believe that one of the reasons Sam picked me was because his father was such an apostate and hated by the FLDS church.

And Warren saw that he could sort of manipulate and take it and take a, shot at the father by sort of bringing Sam into his orbit. And Sam was allowed to attend one of the trials, and it gave Sam a certain status. And I really think it was more of a thumb in the eye of Warren, giving some sort of attention to Sam as a result of what his father had done. Again, nothing happens in a vacuum, and everything's related. But I think that's one of the reasons Sam came down and singled me out and wanted to meet with me to come down and flex. and show what a big man he is that he could come down and do this in front of me.

I appreciate you being so much of an advocate and being a journalist again. I want people to realize, you know, you can find your stories and your interviews, including your interview with Elizabeth, the mother, to Alan and Rochelle, who we need to find. And I'm going to go back to them in just a minute here. On your YouTube channel with your daughter, Story Hustler, as well as your book, you can read your stories of covering these FLDS crimes story hustler. I'll have a link to your book, actually, in the description of this episode for people to check out.

You know, my heart hurts because, obviously, because what we're talking about, everybody's heart's hurting probably right now listening to this. It's very difficult to listen to. But I think to take a step further for me, my heart hurts because I've met many FLDS members who are still members today. And they're good people. and as you point out, sometimes the most faithful are the worst victims. And some of these FLDS women I've met have worked so hard. Like I said, they've even become certified victims advocates to try to better and see the abuse. And they don't believe in child brides.

And they're trying. And I guess it hurts when you know that this is a very vulnerable community. And maybe that's the way to say it. They're so vulnerable. And I guess I think another thing that I'm concerned about is as a community, when we see these horrific acts, I think initially our thought is to shun those that we see in these prairie dresses and we see what they need us and they need to assimilate into the community. And almost to like, I feel like the isolation makes it worse. I guess I just tried to figure out with all of the issues and all the concerns around this. How do we help? How do we make this better? And I don't know. That's just something on my mind

and correct me if I'm wrong or I'm going down a rabbit hole that isn't the right rabbit hole. No, tell me the right rabbit hole. What can you do to make it better? What can you do to, you know, alleviate the predation on young girls and the forcing women into really difficult situations, plural wives? And you're right, some are happy and some, you know, like the lifestyle. I've been, covering this again I those are the sort of nuanced issues our focus has been actual crimes and actual perps focus on crimes against children and focus and then drag the perps into the light of day we've got to prevent it from happening

again and maybe that's right I've been thinking I've been thinking that's asking the same question for the last 45 years this stuff was going on long before I came along and it'll be going on long but long after I know it I know and I think that's where my heart hurts too is like what how can we get history to stop repeating itself and i don't know i don't have the answer but i appreciate you just conversing with me a little bit about it and it's it's so heartbreaking it is it's a very vulnerable community that's it's a that's it's but you call it a community whether you call it a cult whatever you want to call it they're people they're people they're vulnerable people and most of them have been you know i i again talking to some

of the old timers talking about people who get out of there. Nobody gets out of there without scars. Yeah. And that's the real hard truth. But, you know, for all of the stories about how difficult is, there's also lots and lots of people who've gotten out and said, you know, having this one-man rule by an insane man who's a pedophile and clearly is motivated by being vindictive, being threatening, and satisfying his own appetites. That's a It's a dangerous position for people to be in. And if you don't call that out, you know, I am sympathetic. I also know enough people that have gotten out and realized this is bullshit, and we don't

want to be part of it anymore. Yeah. Thank you for sharing that. And right. And our mutual friend, Donya Jessup, you know, the first female mayor is one of those examples. Not only does she get out, she went back to her community and back to her town of Shortcric and became the first female mayor.

mayor and boy was that an intense historic historic what a story that was the tension in that town was palpable there was a division and i remember going there daily and reporting on that and yeah she's that interesting moment for sure to witness yeah so let's go back to what brought us here together today mike and that is two missing miners who you are very concerned about who police are concerned enough about that they issued an amber I don't take those an umbrella slightly. A mother who's worried, they may have left on their own, but these are not your typical runaways.

How can we help as the public? Where might they be? Because as you point out, they're not necessarily going back to Short Creek. This is not what it used to be. There's not some town with walls around it anymore. You know, where might be? That's the challenge for law enforcement, because again, given just a nature of how the community is scattered.

Warren told them, don't assemble because the law enforcement can come after us, dispersed to the winds. And it makes it much more challenging. And over the years with sending parents away and taking children, they have a well-established network

of sort of homes run by FLDS caretakers, you know, where you can pile a bunch of kids after you kick mom and dad out and indoctrinate them and make sure the little girls are in line to get married as soon as Warren says so and the boys can work on work details until we kick them out because you can't have as many boys and girls that when you have polygamy at the industrial community level that's all that's what's going to happen that's what you have to do to sustain it and uh and you know Warren understands that

Warren put out his revelation to gather up the children because he was losing control to guys like Sam and Maronai Johnson and I you know and I don't think there's any question you know one man's opinion, but that is certainly my opinion, that this historic chain of events. And the revelation of the gathering up of the children were a response to Warren Jeffs and whoever the brain trust is now we've got to allow people to have marriages. We've got to start marrying and producing children. I mean, they don't recruit from outside. The only way they sustain themselves, it's a death sentence if they stop having children.

And for 10 years, they did. And Warren recognized, somebody recognized the errors of their way. because men like Sam are going to go rope and start picking up the girls on the fringes, the wives and mothers on the fringe who want to have babies, you know. So there was a motive for a lot of people for a thing to break off. And Warren, I think, put a lid on that when he said, no, no, no, we're still intact. We're still doing marriages, now gathering up the kids. These two kids up in Idaho are part of that grand conspiracy,

that Mr. Jeff articulated. And law enforcement can say whatever they want about it. This is a well-orchestrated conspiracy started by Jeff's or the FLDS Brain Trust to gather up the kids, counter rogue actors like Sam and Moroni, and try to bring some semblance of a community with the future going forward. But now they're all scattered, and again, I think that this necessitates the transportation of children across state lines, which immediately makes it a federal offense. And so I'm hoping the FBI is listening, and they take it. take a charge of this because it's not a local matter.

I want to point out one other really important detail when it comes to the Sand Bateman case. Yeah. I have it right here. So he's arrested. He's issued a no contact order to all of the victims. Yeah. These young minors. And then in November of 2022, eight of the nine minor girls were reported missing from the homes that they have been placed by Arizona DCS. So they've been placed in foster care. They've been placed in foster homes. Sam Bateman's arrested. There's a no contact order.

They go missing eight of the nine. We're talking over 90%. A few days later, law enforcement found them outside of an Airbnb in Spokane, Washington, in a vehicle driven by Moretta Rose Johnson, who Bateman has claimed as a wife and when she was under the age of 18, to the affidavit Johnson, who was then 19, was taken into custody and is accused of kidnapping in a federal complaint. My point being that Sam Bateman behind bars, everything's good to go, right? And these minor children, the victims, they all go missing. This is, and who, somebody,

I mean, there's like no law. He just said, do you not contact him, and they're still taken across state lines. And where are they found to? I want to point out an Airbnb. be in Spokane, Washington. These children are somewhere any of you could be in the country. I think they were headed to Canada. But yeah, I mean, we have a little backstory on that as well, that other little facet of that. Mr. Bateman was arrested and sent to a, you know, he sent to first to the Coquanino County Jail where he immediately gets on the telephone and start telling his followers to delete messages and incriminating evidence. He still bells out some weeks later that feds after being embarrassed by the traffic stop raid the place.

and they throw them in a prison in Arizona. It just so happens that my daughter and I had a source inside the pod where Mr. Baitman was housed. And according to Aizan in that facility, Sam was well known. It was a big pod where he was within several dozen inmates, and there was a sort of a communal area with, I think, a microwave, and four tablets that were used by inmates to communicate with the outside world. Sam was well known, according to my source, who had eyes in that thing,

that Sam was known to get up really early in the morning and put a blanket over himself. In essence, we know, and Sam, we have people who were talking about, Sam was contacting, and they said every time they could see this screen, the few times when Sam, it was the same girls lined up in exactly the same way, and Sam was leaning over talking to him like this. My contention is, while he was locked up in the Arizona prison, he was using a tablet provided by the prison to orchestrate the very,

very kidnapping, that nine girls were taken into custody after the raid. They all got brought down here, another great success for law enforcement. They put him in child protected custody, and eight of them get basically plucked out of there by some of his other younger adult wives and taken. Mr. Jeff's is in prison in Texas, orchestrating, you know, kidnapping and trafficking among his followers behind bars. Sam Bateman while behind bars was orchestrating his followers to commit kidnapping and trafficking. You know, while behind bars, a lot of themes keep, you know, keep coming back and a lot of similar.

These stories, again, sometimes I feel like we're just changing the names. So, yeah, I mean, it was very bizarre, not a great stellar moment for Arizona officials when they let Sam, and it came out in court. That's exactly what he was doing. We had somebody telling us in real time. He's down there every morning talking to the same girl. And we heard some of the audio tapes of those things. Just perverted sex talk. But he just shows these guys are as dangerous behind bars as they are while they're out.

And I still don't know why Warren Jess can communicate as readily as he does from that prison. And Sammy Boy, they better be careful because, you know, the people who still follow him, as you say, is still very vulnerable. Very vulnerable. So, Rochelle is only 15 years old, would she be wearing a prairie dress or do you know? I would bet if they're hiding her, they'd probably got civilian clothing, so to speak, and they're hiding these kids. You know, they're hot.

And this is, from the first time my daughter and I did a story about the first child missing in the wake of the, we felt like the only way to really help, as I mentioned, is sound the alarm. And the more eyeballs on this story, the more eyeballs looking for these kids, they find them, they return them to the mom, and then the thing they have to do, as they didn't do in that previous case involving Warren's nephew, they have to prosecute the hell out of the people who took them and send a very loud message because the FLDS community is sensitive to bad press. Yes. Prosecutions, and they change their behavior when they know that dogs like me are hunting them down

or the cops are coming after them. And so, you know, I think that I'm hoping that with the exposure, I was reading on CNN, N's website. They're covering the disappearance of Elizabeth's children. You know, ABC has, ABC is the one network who's done a pretty good job in covering the missing children from early on. And so, but that's what it takes. A lot of people looking for these kids. And then when they catch this, they got to send a real stern example and prosecute whoever helped facilitate those kids leaving because they did not do that on their own. Okay. Yeah. They might have left on their own. but they didn't leave on their own. No. I understand what you're saying. I'm picking it up.

All right. Mike, thank you so much for your time. One last time. Can you share? I know I already shared it. I'm going to force you to share it, but can you share where we could find you, your interview with Elizabeth,

your journalism with your daughter, and your book? Well, that's kind of you. Yeah, I mean, it's easy to remember. It's a story hustler, the YouTube channel and the book, Story Hustler, Murder, Mayhem, P. A woman who wrote a book about Michael Jackson many years ago wrote about me and referred to me as a story hustler in the book. And I thought, I know she doesn't mean this is a compliment, but I love the title.

So it's the YouTube channel is Story Hustler, the YouTube channel. And for the last three years, we've got 60 episodes that really focus very, you know, intently on Sam Bateman and on the missing children. The status of the FLDS community today. Two different stories, totally related. We have a lot of reporting on that. And so you can find the book, StoryHustler on Amazon. You can find YouTube as our channel on YouTube. And we appreciate you.

I appreciate you doing this because you have, again, it was very enlightening to me to see the successes of projects like yours. And I know you have a big audience and that's what this needs. Yeah, it does. So thank you. Thank you for spending time with Hidden True Crime today and with me. And I'm sure that our paths will cross. All right.

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